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Sprite Garrett
Severed Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 09:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
As shocking as this might sound NOT EVERYONE LIKES PVP. Players interested in PVE mission running have to deal with constant griefing by PVP trolls. As for the forum trolls who will inevitably response with flame wars about PVE whining and bitching: IT'S A GAME, it's meant to be enjoyed and there is NO enjoyment in being constantly griefed and harassed by no-life teenagers who hate their lives so much they have to make everyone else miserable right along with them.
I get that the game is open and greatly unregulated and a certain amount of piracy is to be expected and there are precautions PVE players and non-combat players can take to avoid most piracy, but a PVE mission runner is basically helpless while running a mission, griefers can come into their mission deadspace and destroy or steal mission objectives in highsec space and outright murder the player in lowsec space while the player is already swamped with dealing with the mission NPCs. The only option a PVE mission runner has for lowsec missions is to have a squad of friends constantly on standby nearby to bail them out, a HUGE pain in the ass.
There should be ways for every basic career path to be enjoyable and playable for solo players, making mission deadspace private so that only the mission holder and people they are grouped with can enter doesn't interfere with the rest of the game and allows PVE mission running to be accessible and enjoyable for solo players. Other deadspace areas like those found with probing would remain public and open to piracy, only the temporary and personal mission spawned deadspace areas would be private. The change is simple, has no impact on the rest of the game and prevents players who are only interested in PVE combat from getting frustrated and leaving the game (which is a business after all, players getting pissed and quitting is bad for business from what I hear). |

GallowsCalibrator
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
243
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 09:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sprite Garrett wrote:As shocking as this might sound NOT EVERYONE LIKES PVP. Players interested in PVE mission running have to deal with constant griefing by PVP trolls. As for the forum trolls who will inevitably response with flame wars about PVE whining and bitching: IT'S A GAME, it's meant to be enjoyed and there is NO enjoyment in being constantly griefed and harassed by no-life teenagers who hate their lives so much they have to make everyone else miserable right along with them.
I get that the game is open and greatly unregulated and a certain amount of piracy is to be expected and there are precautions PVE players and non-combat players can take to avoid most piracy, but a PVE mission runner is basically helpless while running a mission, griefers can come into their mission deadspace and destroy or steal mission objectives in highsec space and outright murder the player in lowsec space while the player is already swamped with dealing with the mission NPCs. The only option a PVE mission runner has for lowsec missions is to have a squad of friends constantly on standby nearby to bail them out, a HUGE pain in the ass.
There should be ways for every basic career path to be enjoyable and playable for solo players, making mission deadspace private so that only the mission holder and people they are grouped with can enter doesn't interfere with the rest of the game and allows PVE mission running to be accessible and enjoyable for solo players. Other deadspace areas like those found with probing would remain public and open to piracy, only the temporary and personal mission spawned deadspace areas would be private. The change is simple, has no impact on the rest of the game and prevents players who are only interested in PVE combat from getting frustrated and leaving the game (which is a business after all, players getting pissed and quitting is bad for business from what I hear).
No. |

Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
419
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 10:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
EvE is primarily a PvP game. By its very nature, there should be no way to be 100% safe any time your undocked. That's why CONCORD punish, they do not protect. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |

StoneCold
House of Sparrows
94
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 10:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
No.
If someone steals your loot, kill him. If you think you-¦re to weak to handle a thief on your own: close your solo corp and join another corp (Eve is a MMO). You just don-¦t place yourself in the public sandbox if you don-¦t want to play with the other kids. Disclaimer: All depicted violent acts relate only (and exclusively) on ingame events. I support Psychotic Monk for CSM8 |

Evelgrivion
Calamitous-Intent
235
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 10:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you aren't able to survive a mission unmolested, you're either not tough enough or nimble enough to run missions. |

Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
69
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 10:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Even the way how much I hate certain types of PVP players I have to say no to this. It's lowsec, you are the one taking the risk going there and you need to deal with it. If the area is too hostile you might want to think about relocating to another place or join a bigger corporation and go do nullbearing (it's usualy safer than doing anything in lowsec).
There are alot of option to do to get rewards.
Or is here a certain thing that you didn't want to mention why are you so keen on doing this practical lowsec area that you did not even mention. |

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1139
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 11:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
This can't be anything other than a troll thread, I mean basically suggesting instanced content? LMAO
fly away troll |

monkfish2345
D'reg The Methodical Alliance
36
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 11:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
GallowsCalibrator wrote: No.
|

Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1273
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 11:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
GallowsCalibrator wrote: No.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
The main point of the sandbox is that anyone can interact with anyone (beneficial or otherwise). Taking that away turns this into a space-themed WOW clone, and that would be bad.
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |

Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
85
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 11:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Have fun waiting for CCP to listen to you |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
2274
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 12:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm ok with this, but to make it truly instanced and "not affecting the rest of EVE" all bounties, loot, salvage, standings, sec status and loyalty points need to be removed as well, and you can only enter the pocket in a civilian fit noobship.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

Mike Whiite
Cupid Stunts. Casoff
157
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 12:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
But that is exactly what makes those plexes intresting.
not the NPC's you can read up everywhere how to destroy those, it's doing it while avoiding being caught what makes it intresting.
|

Nagnor
The Happy Shooters
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 12:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Go play a different game. For example X3 |

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
33
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 12:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wait! Hold on! Let me bring tear harvesters! |

TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
159
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 13:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sprite Garrett wrote:As shocking as this might sound NOT EVERYONE LIKES PVP. Players interested in PVE mission running have to deal with constant griefing by PVP trolls. As for the forum trolls who will inevitably response with flame wars about PVE whining and bitching: IT'S A GAME, it's meant to be enjoyed and there is NO enjoyment in being constantly griefed and harassed by no-life teenagers who hate their lives so much they have to make everyone else miserable right along with them.
I get that the game is open and greatly unregulated and a certain amount of piracy is to be expected and there are precautions PVE players and non-combat players can take to avoid most piracy, but a PVE mission runner is basically helpless while running a mission, griefers can come into their mission deadspace and destroy or steal mission objectives in highsec space and outright murder the player in lowsec space while the player is already swamped with dealing with the mission NPCs. The only option a PVE mission runner has for lowsec missions is to have a squad of friends constantly on standby nearby to bail them out, a HUGE pain in the ass.
There should be ways for every basic career path to be enjoyable and playable for solo players, making mission deadspace private so that only the mission holder and people they are grouped with can enter doesn't interfere with the rest of the game and allows PVE mission running to be accessible and enjoyable for solo players. Other deadspace areas like those found with probing would remain public and open to piracy, only the temporary and personal mission spawned deadspace areas would be private. The change is simple, has no impact on the rest of the game and prevents players who are only interested in PVE combat from getting frustrated and leaving the game (which is a business after all, players getting pissed and quitting is bad for business from what I hear).
The only way this would ever get support is if your 'private deadspace' missions dropped no loot, granted no sec/standings, no bounties and no rewards.
But then you'd not run them... and it'd just be wasted content. ... |

MisterNick
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
221
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 13:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
4/10 because they remembered to include a few words in all caps. "Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom." |

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
381
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 13:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sprite Garrett wrote: There should be ways for every basic career path to be enjoyable and playable for solo players, making mission deadspace private so that only the mission holder and people they are grouped with can enter doesn't interfere with the rest of the game and allows PVE mission running to be accessible and enjoyable for solo players.
Is not that EVE is a PvP game, is that in EVE is a sandbox, so interactions between players are the engine producing gameplay and cannot be filtered by artificial barrier/mechanics. Open world PvP is a mere consequence of this.
The LP, loot and isk you earn from mission is not "private". When you use it (selling on the market, build, reprocess, anything you do) you influence other people gameplay (as in any sandbox type game), why aren't you open to accept other players influence on your gameplay too? have to be "private" only when is good for you?
beside mission sites are already pretty safe, mostly in low sec and far more in null. You don't need a squad guarding you, you see if somoene is approaching the warp in gate.
|

De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1199
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 13:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sprite Garrett wrote:As shocking as this might sound NOT EVERYONE LIKES PVP..
And as shocking as this might sound, those people are PLAYING THE WRONG GAME.
Now go away lil troll. You bore us.
Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |

Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
130
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 14:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sprite Garrett wrote:making mission deadspace private
Instancing in my eve? Never!
Sprite Garrett wrote:The change is simple, has no impact on the rest of the game
Didn't your mother thought you not to lie? Or are you just ignorant? Malcanis for CSM 8 Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
110
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 15:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
I feel your pain... However even a carebear such as I have to tell you that what you want not only will not happen, but it should not happen. It's part of what makes EVE what it is.
The Devs have a stated goal of having PvE and PvP fit ships become more compatible so that a pirate starting something with you isn't a one way encounter. This is what should be worked on, not removing the possibility of PvP interaction. Once the pirates have to endure the same level of hardship you do in always bringing a fleet, fitting for the area and being prepared for whatever you may do, then these sorts of encounters will spice up mission running, rather than just griefing half the player base to appease the other half.
EVE is a sandbox game, not just a PvP game. This means that all playstyles should be given equal time and opportunity to flourish as their players wish. This means that the PvE guys are going to have to deal with PvP, and the PvP guys are eventually going to have to come to terms with changes to the game that are not PvP friendly, or even relevant to them. The mark of a good compromise is all parties feeling shafted.
If you are getting greifed in your highsec missions, find an agent a little further out from your mission hub. The mouth breathing baby eaters that like to do that sort of thing are lazier than they accuse missioners of being, and most won't chase you out another 3 or 4 jumps. As a for instance, I missioned heavily around Dodixie in Gallente space and the TEARS alliance has several operatives in the area who pretty much spend all day griefing in whatever ways they can find all the miners and missioners in the area. When I got tired of looking at green space, I moved to a system only 5 jumps away in the outskirts of Amarr space and never see anyone while missioning in brown space now. What was a constant nuisance around the trade hub just went away a few jumps out.
If you are getting griefed in Lowsec missions... I can't help you. CONCORD even warned you when you jumped out there that they didn't think it was a good idea. Take your security in your own hands or don't go. As a rule of thumb, I don't cross into Lowsec space in anything I expect to fly back out with. Other than a few pirates looking to gull the unwary, I've never heard anyone tell me anything different. All of EVE is dangerous, Lowsec is specifically set aside to be more dangerous, and you want to be safe there? I hope you can see where that isn't something that should happen. Gear up for where you are going to be, or don't go there. I hope that one day the game carries that concept to the pirates too, and steps have already been taken to make that happen, but part of the game is dealing with semisentient genatallia. |

Exterminatus Illexis
Vrtra Armamentarium
64
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 17:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
EVE is a PVP game. If you don't like PVP either learn how to avoid it, (fit a tractor beam and use salvage drones on a drake or something) or deal with it.
So yeah. As said earlier, NO. I am that idiot in a brawler ship that charges at you screaming "COWABUNGA" and for some reason doesn't die imminently.
Fear my megathong. |

Akuyaku
Brave Newbies Inc.
9
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 17:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
If you want to avoid PVP stop playing, get off the forums, and sell your computer. Or start shooting back. |

Saul Elsyn
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
66
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 17:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:The Devs have a stated goal of having PvE and PvP fit ships become more compatible so that a pirate starting something with you isn't a one way encounter. This is what should be worked on, not removing the possibility of PvP interaction. Once the pirates have to endure the same level of hardship you do in always bringing a fleet, fitting for the area and being prepared for whatever you may do, then these sorts of encounters will spice up mission running, rather than just griefing half the player base to appease the other half.
Sadly PvP setups and PvE setups remain fundamentally different due to how NPC ships fight (poor damage, no reps usually, and so forth... leading to cap stable active tank setups being common, when PvE content is more in line with what to expect from a PvP engagement in terms of threat and counters, then the fits of PvP and PvE setups would largely be the same... aside for PvE ships not having webs and scrams... and thus more tank or ECM. |

Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Are they going suspect/blinky yellow when they do it? Does it happen in a certain system and/or by a certain person/corp?
Awesome... get friends to wait nearby and counter-gank them. You don't have to PVP. Let your friends get the kill while you continue your mission. There are many people in hi-sec willing to shoot yellows for you. Find them so both groups (maybe to some degree the pirate) get want they want!! |

Steel Roamer
Pandemic Legion Academy
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Choses to play an MMO...
Doesn't like the MMO aspect.
OP, I think the problem lies in your failed sense of logic. |

Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative.
453
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Sprite Garrett wrote: There should be ways for every basic career path to be enjoyable and playable for solo players, making mission deadspace private so that only the mission holder and people they are grouped with can enter doesn't interfere with the rest of the game and allows PVE mission running to be accessible and enjoyable for solo players.
Is not that EVE is a PvP game, is that in EVE is a sandbox, so interactions between players are the engine producing gameplay and cannot be filtered by artificial barrier/mechanics. Open world PvP is a mere consequence of this. The LP, loot and isk you earn from mission is not "private". When you use it (selling on the market, build, reprocess, anything you do) you influence other people gameplay (as in any sandbox type game), why aren't you open to accept other players influence on your gameplay too? have to be "private" only when is good for you? beside mission sites are already pretty safe, mostly in low sec and far more in null. You don't need a squad guarding you, you see if somoene is approaching the warp in gate. Sandbox = PvP, period. PvP is not ALWAYS pewpew, any interaction between two players will invariable end with one getting the better deal, even if both players exchange items of roughly eqal value, the players personal assets and resoucres mean what he traded for himself could have been of higher or lower value compared to what was traded by the poorer player, as he could afford more of it.
interaction = pvp, the only way to have non-pvp in eve owld be to take out high-slots and NPC-seed everything on the market for 1 isk. even then there would be the "who has the MOST stuff" pvp. |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2118
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 20:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
I always liked how this guy put it...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=482176#post482176
Crumplecorn wrote:"It's a sandbox" But then, some bright spark in the back pipes up, EVE is a sandbox, so I should be able to do whatever I want. EVE is indeed a sandbox, however it is a Multiplayer Sandbox. The definition of a sandbox is not "I can do whatever I want", it is that rather than providing a specific experience, the game provides an environment and tools with which to craft your own experience. For single-player games, these definitions are functionally the same. The problem with a multiplayer sandbox is that not only can you do whatever you want, so can everyone else. You want to mine in highsec in complete peace? The game lets you. It's the other players that are the problem. The hypocrisy of demanding the freedom to do what you like, while simultaneously demanding or celebrating the curtailment of other people's playstyles should be self-evident, but apparently it's not. "EVE isn't a PvP game" Yes, it really is. Being, as it is, a multiplayer sandbox, it is a shared environment which we all inhabit together and all affect. For any of it to be non-PvP, all of it would have to be non-PvP. Even if CCP made it so it was impossible to blow up spaceships in highsec, highsec would still affect the rest of the game just by being there. As long as we are all playing the same game, the guy in the corner mining endlessly has an effect on the guys fighting a war in the other corner. And so, requests to be able to act with impunity will be not be received well by those who actually understand the game.
Underlined the important parts. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

Warcalibre
FDA Shipwrights
18
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 22:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sprite Garrett wrote:As shocking as this might sound NOT EVERYONE LIKES PVP.
EVE is pvp game. By playing EVE you are consenting to all forms of pvp in any form. When you fly a mission you are consenting to being scanned down and ganked. When you haul 93 PLEX in an untanked Loki, you consenting to be alphaed by a gatecamp and lose all your PLEX.
If this is not your style, you could try other games. Maybe Florensia? Can I have your stuff?
|

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
110
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 14:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
Saul Elsyn wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:The Devs have a stated goal of having PvE and PvP fit ships become more compatible so that a pirate starting something with you isn't a one way encounter. This is what should be worked on, not removing the possibility of PvP interaction. Once the pirates have to endure the same level of hardship you do in always bringing a fleet, fitting for the area and being prepared for whatever you may do, then these sorts of encounters will spice up mission running, rather than just griefing half the player base to appease the other half. Sadly PvP setups and PvE setups remain fundamentally different due to how NPC ships fight (poor damage, no reps usually, and so forth... leading to cap stable active tank setups being common, when PvE content is more in line with what to expect from a PvP engagement in terms of threat and counters, then the fits of PvP and PvE setups would largely be the same... aside for PvE ships not having webs and scrams... and thus more tank or ECM.
As things currently stand, that is correct. But they have stated that they want to make changes so that the 2 playstyles are more compatible. I look foward to this. It's a sandbox game in which almost all of the shovels have been given to the guys that pretty much just want to bonk eachother and everyone else over the head with them. I look foward to the day where my options upon seeing a couple of guys pop into local are more than "Hide until they get bored and go away" or "Die Horribly". The recent AI change has influenced this, though that work is woefully incomplete and a bad change arriving in a vacuume as it did.
The OP's problem is directly related to this current imbalance. He got jumped in his mission, and the mechanics of the game are set up that any reasonably fit ship dealing with PvE is all but helpless against a reasonably fit PvP ship. There are some things he could have done better, I am sure---but the bottom line is he should have been able to mount a reasonable defense, not simply burn and die because someone chose to engage him. All the herpaderp 'solo pvp' players will tell him to suck it up and learn to warp out on seeing potential hostiles, and then go on to other threads and complain that PvE players are too safe because they can warp out and hide when they show up. As someone who does not care for PvP I can sympathize with the OP... I certainly don't care enough of PvP to hunt down others, I much prefer to explore and exploit the environment. I am not, however, opposed to PvP action--- if I had a reasonable chance at surviving an engagement, I would stay and fight it out. It is not reasonable that I take my expensive mission fit ship and must maintain an OCD level of awareness of dscan and local at all times, and my only defense is that I must run and hide from any neutral forces that show up regardless of numbers, fleet composition or hostile intent or else virtually guarantee the loss of my ship and failure of my mission goals.
So while I disagree that there needs to be any sort of private or instanced space to do PvE in, I agree that some changes need to be made in the current game so that the playstyles are compatible. Flying a ship that is not viable in PvP should be a choice, not enforced by th |

Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1282
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 15:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:(stuff)
y'know ... just for grins I fit up a (bad) PVP blaster Mega. Other than hating myself for going with Neutrons instead of 425mm rails, the mission wasn't "impossible" ...
I assume that it just took longer than if I had fit for max resists, etc that a "normal" mission boat would have ... in that I couldn't just grab aggro and sit and tank the rats til it was over. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
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