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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
715
   |
Posted - 2013.03.21 17:51:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Sofia Wolf wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:So im guessing this is Kil2 This was OMG CCP assimilated kill2! Resistance if futile! Does this mean Fozzie is dead. I thought he was the balance man.  I'm not dead! What? Nothing, here's your 9 pence.
Bring out your dead! *ding* *ding* bring out your dead!
Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
700
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 17:58:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi there features and ideas!
I'm CCP's newest game designer. As some of you may know, I've been a pretty dedicated Eve player for quite awhile now, and I'm very excited to start working to improve the game as much as I can. I'll be contributing to a range of projects I'm sure, but for the immediate future my biggest focus will be balance. I bring a lot of my own history and experience into this role, but I'm also the first to acknowledge that Eve has an enormous variety of environments and situations. That means you all can always help improve my perspective on the game.
At the moment I'm spending a lot of time thinking about ATTACK Battlecruisers and Tech 1 Battleships specifically. I want to open this thread in the hopes that you guys will contribute thoughts on those topics. I would push you towards more high level/meta discussion rather than hyper specific attribute adjustment type of stuff, we just aren't to that stage yet. If I can validate my own impressions about the state of balance regarding these two classes through your contributions, I'll feel much more comfortable going forward!
Excited to be here, look forward to hearing from all of you!
CCP Rise
I don't have any thoughts (yet, I'll work on that), but the fact that you're asking for high level/meta discussion right now doesn't necessarily bode well for making the Summer release deadline that everyone at least thought you were aiming for. 
Mynnna for CSM 8 |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
258
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 17:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
I can't comment on battleships other than to say that they still seem to be overshadowed by battlecruisers for most purposes (a much shorter train and substantially lower cost gives you ~1/2-2/3 of a bs) and that dedicated EWAR BS is a waste (I'd prefer to keep support hulls small).
Attack battlecruisers need a substantial mobility reduction, and you may want to take away the Talos' drones and/or tracking bonus. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
429
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
the scorpion's role as an ecm burster should be buffed by allowing it to fit more than one |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks
Executive Outcomes
897
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:02:00 -
[65] - Quote
This is probably going to be unpopular but I don't think the Scorpion should be an ECM boat.
Why?
Well because it doesn't really make sense, in order to make it equal across the EWAR types you're going to need one for each, but who really thinks a Battleship that uses Target Painters makes sense? Or Sensor Damps?
Ignore the game mechanics for a moment and just think of the concept. A BATTLEship that doesn't really shoot anything, instead it sits there and just messes with people's ability to lock, shoot or in the case of TPs, improves the damage of everyone else.
To me these roles in a BS fleet would be provided by specialist but tough T2 cruisers (or battlecruiers). At the moment if I want to take an ECM ship on a fleet, and I don't want to die instantly I take a Scorpion. However if there was a Heavy Assault Cruiser EWAR variant, or even a battlecruiser ewar variant, you could take that instead.
This means your EWAR ships will have higher resists and small sig size then your mainline ships, but will be slightly more agile and faster but perhaps less buffer (though probably similar EHP) and less slots. This prevents someone from taking a fleet of damping EWAR battleships and literally just stopping you from ever hitting them with your guns and provides a balancing factor. You could take out a battleship's EWAR support using a smaller sized support fleet for example.
Make the Scorpion use blasters or missiles and end the fact it's the odd one out.
I think the battleships also need to stick to concepts seen in earlier ships for that race. So the geddon would seem a natural progression for a player who likes using the Omen, and the Abbadon would seem a natural progression for someone who uses the maller etc.
"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
429
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:11:00 -
[66] - Quote
imagine how entertaining it would be to have suicide bursting scorps as a real thing
come on
you know you want to |
Boris Amarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:11:00 -
[67] - Quote
I think that Amarr has huge problems with capacitor usage. Especially for Large lasers. Please this screenshot:
Capacitor usage
Do you this is it normal? Or may be Large lasers required some capacitor usage boost? |
Techno General
501st Imperial Legion
Unknown Destination
8
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:14:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:also as much as previous blogs have said how you guys are happy with amarr BS for the most part, an option other than just laser based DPS might be nice. I agree here as well. Already been thinking about other options for one of the amarr bs - as a follow up question related to this: Which amarr bs seems most ripe for an overhaul in your opinion?
None of them, they are all perfect. |
Steel Roamer
Pandemic Legion Academy
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:24:00 -
[69] - Quote
Caldari BS need a major rework.
The Rokh is fine honestly, its a shield blaster boat with all the numbers seemingly balanced (Except for its capacitor).
The Raven needs to gain a mid and lose a low, and cruise missiles/torpedos need a rework. Torpedos need more range, and slightly less damage explosion/more explosion velocity to make them more on par with damage application from gunboats and drone boats. Cruise missiles are near being "balanced", but the anemic damage output of them makes every other BS 10x more viable.
Scorpion could become a combat ship, but then it treads on the feet of either the Rokh or Raven, so leaving it where it is, is fine. But perhaps a slot rework? Or lowering the ECM bonus a little and adding a damage/tank bonus?
The reality is that the Raven needs love and then everyone will be happy.
Otherwise, the Hyperion needs more fitting.
The Geddon could use slightly better capacitor.
The Tempest could use more base armor since it is the flimsiest of BS.
Typhoon could use more "focus". -1 Turret Slot and +1 missile slot would make skilling into the Typhoon less of a 1 year ordeal. And it could help to gain a mid-slot if you wish to keep the "Shield/Missile" minmatar focus going.
Maelstrom is okay, but with Combat Links being nerfed, the Maelstrom will find itself without a use unless it gains a Mid-Slot and loses a Low-slot.
Just my opinions as someone who spends half his day staring at EFT numbers and thinking "What-If" with half my fits. |
Mesh Marillion
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Techno General wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Quote:also as much as previous blogs have said how you guys are happy with amarr BS for the most part, an option other than just laser based DPS might be nice. I agree here as well. Already been thinking about other options for one of the amarr bs - as a follow up question related to this: Which amarr bs seems most ripe for an overhaul in your opinion? None of them, they are all perfect.
While i wouldn't call them perfect, i 'd agree on no radical changes needed. Especially those people who want to tweak the apoc have probably never flown one in combat . It is atm the plattform that keeps amarr competitive for being able to fight up to LR point range of recons against faster gangs. |
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Steel Roamer
Pandemic Legion Academy
11
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:27:00 -
[71] - Quote
Mesh Marillion wrote:Techno General wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Quote:also as much as previous blogs have said how you guys are happy with amarr BS for the most part, an option other than just laser based DPS might be nice. I agree here as well. Already been thinking about other options for one of the amarr bs - as a follow up question related to this: Which amarr bs seems most ripe for an overhaul in your opinion? None of them, they are all perfect. While i wouldn't call them perfect, i 'd agree on no radical changes needed. Especially those people who want to tweak the apoc have probably never flown one in combat . It is atm the plattform that keeps amarr competitive for being able to fight up to LR point range of recons against faster gangs.
100% agree. Apoc is honestly the best Amarr BS.
Great tank, awesome application, good damage. |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
170
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:31:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:also as much as previous blogs have said how you guys are happy with amarr BS for the most part, an option other than just laser based DPS might be nice. I agree here as well. Already been thinking about other options for one of the amarr bs - as a follow up question related to this: Which amarr bs seems most ripe for an overhaul in your opinion?
T2 Khanid (torpedo) Abaddon please. |
Andrea Griffin
311
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:33:00 -
[73] - Quote
Connall Tara wrote:the typhoon, technically speaking its a REALLY good battleship, but the training curve required to actually use one properly is phenominally difficult to achieve with not only T2 gunnery but T2 missiles and T2 drones to get the full bang for your buck. Please stop homogenizing every single ship in Eve. Yes, ships with split weapons systems do take more training and skill to use, but they offer some excellent flexibility that single-weapon platforms don't have.
Not every ship needs to be instantly, 100% accessible and effective from day one.
(Yes, I'm still bitter about the poor Merlin)
CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer. |
Steel Roamer
Pandemic Legion Academy
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:37:00 -
[74] - Quote
DJ P0N-3 wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Quote:also as much as previous blogs have said how you guys are happy with amarr BS for the most part, an option other than just laser based DPS might be nice. I agree here as well. Already been thinking about other options for one of the amarr bs - as a follow up question related to this: Which amarr bs seems most ripe for an overhaul in your opinion? T2 Khanid (torpedo) Abaddon please.
Or maybe add another Marauder for each race with more focus on PvP than PvE.
Blaster/Shield marauder for Caldari. Rokh hull, no idea what kind of bonus to give it.
Missile+Drone/Armor for Amarr. Abbadon Hull, Neut bonus.
Drone/Armor for Gallente. Web strength bonus, Domi hull.
Missile/Shield for Minmatar. Target Painting bonus, Typhoon hull. |
Kristoffon vonDrake
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
33
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
Please don't make the pirate and faction BSs obsolete the way that has happened for most of the pirate/navy frigs and, to a lesser extent, cruisers.
If any balance changes overlap with exisiting pirate/faction BSs please carry them over and /or give them other bonuses so that there remains a reason for flying them that is not showing off.
Good luck and congratulations on the new job. |
Kristoffon vonDrake
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
33
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:40:00 -
[76] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:About ECM. Do you remember pizza guy and his griffin? Well say never more because I have a solution for you. I believe most solo PvP pilots would love it, while ECM would still remain very useful for dealing with remote reps, and drone ECM could still give solo pilot that one jam to escape tackle but also give target of ECM drone way to deal with them without mounting smart bomb.
And this. |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
170
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
Two step wrote:IMHO, Battleships need a large EHP buff. The fact that cruisers can match or exceed their EHP is a very bad thing. Along with an EHP buff, they probably also need a tracking nerf. BSs should be very vulnerable to smaller ships, but for fighting other BSs and caps, they should be the front line ships the lore makes them out to be.
An interesting idea. I hadn't thought of this, though I suppose it was driven out of my mind by Fozzie's tendency to reduce tank and increase DPS. The command ship/HIC/T3 pilots might not have to fear as much for their tanks when they get hit with the nerf rebalance bat if battleships head to a place where their raw staying power is still superior (though the Abaddon is in a pretty comfortable place, tank-wise).
Steel Roamer wrote:DJ P0N-3 wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Quote:also as much as previous blogs have said how you guys are happy with amarr BS for the most part, an option other than just laser based DPS might be nice. I agree here as well. Already been thinking about other options for one of the amarr bs - as a follow up question related to this: Which amarr bs seems most ripe for an overhaul in your opinion? T2 Khanid (torpedo) Abaddon please. Or maybe add another Marauder for each race with more focus on PvP than PvE. Blaster/Shield marauder for Caldari. Rokh hull, no idea what kind of bonus to give it. Missile+Drone/Armor for Amarr. Abbadon Hull, Neut bonus.Drone/Armor for Gallente. Web strength bonus, Domi hull. Missile/Shield for Minmatar. Target Painting bonus, Typhoon hull.
This is what I dream of, but do not dare to hope for. |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Newbs Fighting Back
43
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:47:00 -
[78] - Quote
Hey CCP Rise,
I'm really excited you are on the re-balancing team. You were one of the main people that got me hooked on EVE, via your streams and video commentaries, and I am confident you will do great things for internet spaceships.
For very general thoughts about the current balance, I just have two points. First, many of the re-balancing changes have significantly helped newer players get more quickly get into and be viable in PVP both in group and solo roles. I think you should keep this as one of your main goals going forward. To that end, second, I think there is an overall need for a re-re-balance. In general, I think larger guns track smaller targets too well. T1 frigates are worse off fighting up (especially T1 Cruisers now that those changes have sunk in) than ever before, as they get tracked far too easily by Cruiser sized guns and, though not as well by BC size, still enough to poorly fill their roles as they die too quickly. Something needs to change such that small ships get tracked less wellGÇöwhether that be a general nerf to tracking, or a buff to the effectiveness of lower signature radius, or something else.
For attack BCs, I think the Talos and Tornado (and somewhat the other two) track smaller targets a bit too well, otherwise I think they are in a decent place and are some of the funnest ships to fly in game.
For BSs, then, I agree with the suggestion that they should have a bit higher EHP but lower tracking, as well as a bit smaller drone bay on some of the non-drone-dedicated BSs. The Raven needs some loveGÇöor maybe Cruise missiles just need some love. One of the Amarr BSs could be changed into more of a drone boat. |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
39
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:47:00 -
[79] - Quote
Kristoffon vonDrake wrote:Please don't make the pirate and faction BSs obsolete the way that has happened for most of the pirate/navy frigs and, to a lesser extent, cruisers.
If any balance changes overlap with exisiting pirate/faction BSs please carry them over and /or give them other bonuses so that there remains a reason for flying them that is not showing off.
Good luck and congratulations on the new job.
i agree i think all the faction and pirate ships need to have a role besides being slightly better here and there.
And that T1 bonuses need to be kept in line and fairly minimum. |
Kesi Raae
Anatidae Rising
4
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:48:00 -
[80] - Quote
Since the introduction of Attack Battlecruisers the viability of kiting Cruisers has been hit hard, they have essentially removed a fun tactic for small organized gangs (or solo players) to fight larger disorganized gangs. A kiting Cruiser's optimal is well within reach of an Attack Battlecruiser and they have no problem being tracked by the larger guns.
I'd like to see Attack Battlecruisers, or the tracking formula, changed in a way that allows kiting Cruisers to be viable again.
They've made a lot of other fun fleet comps obsolete, but kiting ships are what I have experience with. |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
140
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:52:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I agree here as well. Already been thinking about other options for one of the amarr bs - as a follow up question related to this: Which amarr bs seems most ripe for an overhaul in your opinion?
Abaddon still hasn't got its own role. It's just a fat armageddon with loads more tank, mostly. Armageddon looks way cooler, so the abaddon should get changed.
As for tier 3s, if you're going to nerf their stats generally (speed, fitting, cap, maybe reduce to 7 guns), they might be ok. |
Allandri
Liandri Industrial
Liandri Covenant
32
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Posted - 2013.03.21 18:58:00 -
[82] - Quote
More disruption battleships besides the Scorpion
Here is the thread I made up for it Disruption Battleships |
MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
859
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:12:00 -
[83] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Abaddon still hasn't got its own role. .
Stopped read right there...
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point?
-áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Steel Roamer
Pandemic Legion Academy
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:15:00 -
[84] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:
Abaddon still hasn't got its own role. .
Stopped read right there...
Maybe if you were literate you would understand that he is right.
PLATES + LASERS = BRAWL is the formula for both.
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MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
859
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:15:00 -
[85] - Quote
mynnna wrote:I don't have any thoughts (yet, I'll work on that), but the fact that you're asking for high level/meta discussion right now doesn't necessarily bode well for making the Summer release deadline that everyone at least thought you were aiming for.
Have faith young padawan...
The Cylons have a plan...
and remember some of the better balance have come in the 1.1 version...
perhaps 1.0 is new ships we have no idea about just yet....
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point?
-áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Sigras
Conglomo
388
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:16:00 -
[86] - Quote
I feel like the talos needs to lose its drones, and tracking bonus in exchange for a falloff bonus; this would make it the kitier bigger brother to the brawler brutix.
As far as which amarr battleship should be changed, I kinda like where they all are right now, but if one has to be changed, I vote apoc; the fact that it out DPSs the Rokh at all ranges > 15km is just wrong to me . . . |
Johnny Aideron
Explorers Incorporated
27
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Posted - 2013.03.21 19:18:00 -
[87] - Quote
You could improve drones to be a viable primary weapon for battleship fleets. But there's a few problems:
1) sentries can't move, it would be nice if they had a nominal speed of about 100-150m/s to keep up with a battleship.
2) They have a short targeting range. You should improve the Drone Link Augmenters range bonus so that sentries can actually fire out to their effective range and engage other long-ranged battleships fleets and tier 3's. Or you could improve the base targeting range of drones or give drone-bonused ships a role bonus to control range.
3) Lack of ships. Maybe give an Amarr ship a drone bonus and give them a spare high slot (along with the Dominix) to fit a Drone Link Aug in addition to their guns.
4) Improve Drone behaviours, so that you could order sentries to remain still or follow you.
And what about active tanking bonuses on battleships, they aren't much good, are they? The Hyperion is rarely used while the Maelstrom is used but without any regard for active tanking in most cases. |
MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
860
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:18:00 -
[88] - Quote
Sigras wrote:I feel like the talos needs to lose its drones, and tracking bonus in exchange for a falloff bonus; this would make it the kitier bigger brother to the brawler brutix.
As far as which amarr battleship should be changed, I kinda like where they all are right now, but if one has to be changed, I vote apoc; the fact that it out DPSs the Rokh at all ranges > 15km is just wrong to me . . .
wow those changes to the talos would be sick!
whats the range we are looking at with a 10% to falloff on large neutrons with null? with two te II?
blasters the new autocannon?
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point?
-áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
1935
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:19:00 -
[89] - Quote
What do you envision is the point of an "attack battleship". according to the old dev blog, they seem to be like attack cruisers (Caracal, Stabber, Thorax, Omen).... not as sturdy as the other ships in their class, but good at damage, damage projection, and Speed. Most of these qualities are already mimicked in the Tier 3 BC's, which are slower, but get significantly more damage and more range that comes from large weapons. Taking this to the next level, Attack BS's should be slower than Tier 3 BC's, but faster than the other BS's. The question in my mind, is should the attack BS's deal more damage and/or have better damage application than Tier 3's.... and my primary thought is YES... but what should they then lose to balance things out?
My main design goals of Attack BS's should be:
-- In General, Provides highest damage output/application of ALL T1 Hulls.
-- In General, Fastest of the T1 BS hulls.
-- In General, Weakest Tank of the T1 BS hulls.
-- In General, The least Utility highslots of the T1 BS Hulls.
It's weird, as the Mega, Armageddon, & Typhoon have ship bonuses akin to attack BS's, its the Hyperion, Abaddon, Rokh, and Maelstrom that have the slot layouts I'd expect from an "attack BS".
Given that the Mega, Armageddon, and Typhoon have been declared "attack BS"'s, I'm not certain what you attribute to the category. These ships do LESS main-weapon damage than their BC counterparts (which all have 8 turrets), and use drones to make up the damage difference. They also have a utility high (which is very useful), which really rounds out the ships, but doesn't fit the "attack" category ships, except for frigates.
Given these limitations, I'd set their primary weapon system to 7 turrets/launchers. I'd have them all have a utility high, with the expected use of a Heavy Nuet or Smartbomb. I'd give them all a boost to MWD speed (and maybe cap useage), and I'd reduce their EHP by 10-25%.
Specifically, to start with I'd test these changes and see how they lined up:
Armageddon: Significantly improve it's Cap, +50ish CPU, +3k PG, -20% EHP... change it's 5% R.O.F. bonus to a 7.5% damage bonus. Boost MWD Speed by 25%
Megathron: Improve Cap, +50ish CPU, -20% EHP... increase its damage bonus from 5% to 7.5%. Boost MWD Speed by 25%
Typhoon: Retool as a 6-Torp Boat with a bonus to dps and range. Give it two utility highs, and enough grid to utilize them with heavy nuets... Increase speed to maintain the minnie style, and reduce it's EHP...
P.S. Also, I really hope you fill out this chart, and give us a Caldari Attack BS and Racial Disruption Battleships. |
Sigras
Conglomo
388
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 19:19:00 -
[90] - Quote
Boris Amarr wrote:I think that Amarr has huge problems with capacitor usage. Especially for Large lasers. Please this screenshot: Capacitor usageDo you this is it normal? Or may be Large lasers required some capacitor usage boost? Why does Amarr Battleships need cap booster for fire only????? Cap usage for Large lasers must be decreased on 40%. Also bonus for Oracle, Apocalypse, and Armageddon on capacitor usage must be replaced on any useful. For example Optimal for Oracle, Tracking for Armageddon (attack BC) and Damage for Apocalypse (Sniper).
so . . . you know that lasers use a lot of cap and instead of using the USEFUL bonus of reducing their cap usage you dont want that . . . you want that to be built into the gun making them better than blasters in 99% of circumstances, and then give lasers ANOTHER bonus making them better than blasters in 100% of circumstances?
yeah thats what we need |
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