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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.08.29 20:56:00 -
[1]
Ok, I must admit. I've had a ton of fun using these modules on people in the past little while. I equip one on just about any ship, and it enables me to defeat any other turret ship without a shred of risk. It's like pushing a button labeled "Win PVP" at the start of every engagement. They can't be countered realistically (a single tracking disruptor requires about... four tracking computers to counter-act), they have great optimal range, and they don't cost very much energy to use. Just mounting one on my Zealot means it will defeat every turret ship it faces, almost unconditionally.
This is worth a look. Perhaps not through the direct route of simply nerfing the ruptor, but perhaps boosting tracking computers so they can actually counter a tracking ruptor?
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.29 20:59:00 -
[2]
They are extremely good, but I'm not sure if they really need a nerf because they are rarly used. There are alot of items that are extremely good and technically should be nerfed but don't actually need it because nobody uses them...
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:02:00 -
[3]
Pssshh.
Seriously, those are flavour of the month(s). I've been using them when ppl were still using painters. But! They don't affect missiles and drones. So Your zealot can fit very many and domi or ishtar will still pop u. Also cerberus might(lol)
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:03:00 -
[4]
They are not very effective against amarr bs's unless you are going long range. They are very effective against minmater and gallente though.
I think they are fine for now though...you need good skills to be effective with them and of course they don't apply to missle users.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:07:00 -
[5]
They're pretty harsh, aye.
Dunno if tracking computers can be boosted to work as full counters to these, though... if they're changed this way, a ship with 2 tracking computers and 250mm rails would have something like 60km optimal with antimatter and tracking better than 150mm rail to boot... o.x;
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:09:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 29/08/2005 21:11:06
 Quote:
They are not very effective against amarr bs's unless you are going long range.
I don't know about that. Having that tracking disruptor on my Zealot pretty much allowed me to annihilate a ganka from 30km starting positions. I undocked, he was 30km from station exit, I put the ruptor (tech II with lvl 4 spec skill) on him, made a lateral approach... and it didn't land hits on me at all, save for the drones it crapped out. If a single module can neuter seven mega pulses that badly, I think something's up.
I'm mostly posting this now because I notice people starting to use them against me, which simply cannot be allowed. Nerf! NERF.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:13:00 -
[7]
"I'm mostly posting this now because I notice people starting to use them against me, which simply cannot be allowed. Nerf! NERF."
^,^
part of that 'geddon problem could be, the pilot didn't notice disruptors were put on him, and was trying to shoot you with lenses that he thought were putting you in his optimal... withour realizing he's now shooting well into the falloff?
Not sure if tactical view updates with the tracking disruptors applied, but if so then it'd be one more reason to use this thing in fight... until we get proper indicators of what's being done to one's ship, anyway.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:17:00 -
[8]
Quote:
I'm mostly posting this now because I notice people starting to use them against me, which simply cannot be allowed. Nerf! NERF.
I agree that this cannot be allowed.
Got any ideas on how to fix them though? I'm coming up pritty blank. Boosting tracking comps wouldn't work for reasons already stated, and if the tracking disrupters were nerfed down to what a tracking comp does they wouldn't be worth the med slot...I suppose if it was only a very slight nerf, but who ever heard of a very slight nerf?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:18:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 29/08/2005 21:21:11
Get back in your closet HG.
Tracking disruptors are fine. :)
Oh wait I forgot, LASER GUN/SENSOR BOOSTER/HEAT SINK might have a counter, oh dear we can't have that now can we.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Hakera
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: j0sephine
until we get proper indicators of what's being done to one's ship, anyway.
doesn't all aggressive ew have a bar above your control panel when you get affected?
If it doesnt, maybe it should have :)
EW used to be a 2:1 counter, so 2 tracking comps to counter 1 ruptor, 46% penatly speed/opt against a TE2 which is 15% & 9.5% so yeah prob a tad high :) maybe lower it to 35% for t2 with 25% for t1
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
pardux
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 29/08/2005 21:21:11
Get back in your closet HG.
Tracking disruptors are fine. :)
Oh wait I forgot, LASER GUN/SENSOR BOOSTER/HEAT SINK might have a counter, oh dear we can't have that now can we.
stop whining >_>
and a nerf for tracking distruptors is a good thing :]
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:28:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 29/08/2005 21:30:55
Quote:
Got any ideas on how to fix them though? I'm coming up pritty blank. Boosting tracking comps wouldn't work for reasons already stated, and if the tracking disrupters were nerfed down to what a tracking comp does they wouldn't be worth the med slot...I suppose if it was only a very slight nerf, but who ever heard of a very slight nerf?
Yeah, that's the tough question, how to bring them in line without turning them into invulnerability fields, forlorn modules of the before-time.
I still think the answer lies in the tracking computer. It's a midslot module, right - so what I feel should be done, is the Tracking Computer gets boosted to 50% range and say, 15% tracking bonus... but it also gets large increases in CPU (to 80ish) and energy drain per cycle. This leaves the lowslot Tracking Enhancer for small improvements in range, and boosts the tracking comp to an effective tracking disruptor counter that you simply can't mount too many of.
I don't even know if that'd be a good solution, since it'd turn gankas back into monsters, but something should probably be done about tracking ruptors. They're making this game too easy for me.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:36:00 -
[13]
well 0.4 modifier to range and 0.4 to tracking... Is lol. And nobody said that u use one only... Put 3 on a gunship... and u can wait that he runs out of ammo and kill him then
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Alerce
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:39:00 -
[14]
They do NOT work vs NPC right?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:41:00 -
[15]
"I don't even know if that'd be a good solution, since it'd turn gankas back into monsters, but something should probably be done about tracking ruptors. They're making this game too easy for me."
Maybe if disruptors affected optimal range of guns, only? Then the counter would be to swap for weaker ammo... meaning the person running disruptors would be hit for less overall, but still would get hit. o.O;
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 29/08/2005 21:30:55
Quote:
Got any ideas on how to fix them though? I'm coming up pritty blank. Boosting tracking comps wouldn't work for reasons already stated, and if the tracking disrupters were nerfed down to what a tracking comp does they wouldn't be worth the med slot...I suppose if it was only a very slight nerf, but who ever heard of a very slight nerf?
Yeah, that's the tough question, how to bring them in line without turning them into invulnerability fields, forlorn modules of the before-time.
I still think the answer lies in the tracking computer. It's a midslot module, right - so what I feel should be done, is the Tracking Computer gets boosted to 50% range and say, 15% tracking bonus... but it also gets large increases in CPU (to 80ish) and energy drain per cycle. This leaves the lowslot Tracking Enhancer for small improvements in range, and boosts the tracking comp to an effective tracking disruptor counter that you simply can't mount too many of.
I don't even know if that'd be a good solution, since it'd turn gankas back into monsters, but something should probably be done about tracking ruptors. They're making this game too easy for me.
Yeah, don't think this will work. For example, right now a gate sniping tempest does something like 2x sensor boosters, 3x tracking comps. With a change like this they would just do 3 or 4 sensor boosters and 1 or 2 tracking comps, so snipers and gankers would just be too strong with these.
A range or falloff nerf wouldn't do it either, as that's not really the issue so much and wouldn't fix the problem...So it would have to be a reduction in the amount of the tracking disrupter does 
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Hanns
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:46:00 -
[17]
Can CCP also nerf NOS Vs smaller targets at the same time as nerfin ruptors 
Heavy NOS 4tw! |
Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: j0sephine
"I don't even know if that'd be a good solution, since it'd turn gankas back into monsters, but something should probably be done about tracking ruptors. They're making this game too easy for me."
Maybe if disruptors affected optimal range of guns, only? Then the counter would be to swap for weaker ammo... meaning the person running disruptors would be hit for less overall, but still would get hit. o.O;
This would effectivly make them totally worthless, as you'd just be better off fitting a tracking comp or target painter to try to buff yourself rather than decrease them.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:51:00 -
[19]
a game where only your rof and dmg mod mattered would be very boring sorry..
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:52:00 -
[20]
"This would effectivly make them totally worthless, as you'd just be better off fitting a tracking comp or target painter to try to buff yourself rather than decrease them."
Well, halving the other guy's optimal means they have to use ammo that's doing ~33% less damage, to get back to the optimal they had... this would seem to me like an okay advantage, i mean i don't think you get much more than 30% of extra damage out of single painter or tracking computer... but would need to be tested, i guess. ^^;;
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:08:00 -
[21]
You used a T2 tracking disruptor with lvl 4 advanced skills on a geddon and you were in a hac and he didn't hit you? Sounds about right to me. You were in a cruiser.
I, however, put 2 T2 tracking disruptors on a gankageddon in my tempest at about 25km and he still hit me very hard, and yes I have the advanced skill at lvl 4.
I think these modules work just fine. Its nice to see that people are actually starting to think about setups other than gank setups again...eve might become a thinking man's game once again. 
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
You used a T2 tracking disruptor with lvl 4 advanced skills on a geddon and you were in a hac and he didn't hit you? Sounds about right to me. You were in a cruiser.
I, however, put 2 T2 tracking disruptors on a gankageddon in my tempest at about 25km and he still hit me very hard, and yes I have the advanced skill at lvl 4.
I think these modules work just fine. Its nice to see that people are actually starting to think about setups other than gank setups again...eve might become a thinking man's game once again.
god forbid.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
They are not very effective against amarr bs's unless you are going long range. They are very effective against minmater and gallente though.
Thats quite funny because tracking disruptors affect lasers more then they affect rails or projectiles.
*cough* falloff is your saviour *cough*
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:45:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Meridius on 29/08/2005 22:46:31
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
I, however, put 2 T2 tracking disruptors on a gankageddon in my tempest at about 25km and he still hit me very hard, and yes I have the advanced skill at lvl 4.
A tracking disruptor II with skills can penalize the targeted ships turrets by 64%.
That means a geddon with an optimal of 40km (using microwave or some other *** crystal) would now have a an optimal of 15.3km.
Thats with just 1 tracking disruptor, heh. I don't see how the geddon you were attacking could hit you period with 2 TD II's and decent skills.
Oh and i'm not pro-nerf, i'm on the fence atm
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: j0sephine
part of that 'geddon problem could be, the pilot didn't notice disruptors were put on him, and was trying to shoot you with lenses that he thought were putting you in his optimal... withour realizing he's now shooting well into the falloff?
Changing crystals doesn't matter much when you have the tracking of an XL turret
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Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:55:00 -
[26]
They do seem overpowered.
Maybe a module which specifically counters tracking disruptors but has a negative effect on your own turret boosting. -90% to the effect of any modules on turret optimals/range.
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Posted - 2005.08.29 23:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Ok, I must admit. I've had a ton of fun using these modules on people in the past little while. I equip one on just about any ship, and it enables me to defeat any other turret ship without a shred of risk. It's like pushing a button labeled "Win PVP" at the start of every engagement. They can't be countered realistically (a single tracking disruptor requires about... four tracking computers to counter-act), they have great optimal range, and they don't cost very much energy to use. Just mounting one on my Zealot means it will defeat every turret ship it faces, almost unconditionally.
This is worth a look. Perhaps not through the direct route of simply nerfing the ruptor, but perhaps boosting tracking computers so they can actually counter a tracking ruptor?
CPP does not neft this game its players that do, im looking forward to another useless midslot item in the kali patch. 
---------------------------------------------
"Taking one for the team one ship at a time."
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SpaceDrake Storyteller
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Posted - 2005.08.29 23:24:00 -
[28]
I've got a Tracking Disruptor I mounted on my Proph (crap skills with Lucca ATM) and I'm wondering why people don't use these more often. They're like an off switch for gunships that can't fail. About the only way to beat them is to get out of their optimal.
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What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward?
Player of the character "Lucca Deradi." Former player of "Andre Ricard." |
Azuriel Talloth
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Posted - 2005.08.29 23:47:00 -
[29]
Won't a 90% webber help counter it? Don't need much tracking to hit a webbed ship...
"Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory,
for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated." |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.30 00:16:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 30/08/2005 00:29:34
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
They are not very effective against amarr bs's unless you are going long range. They are very effective against minmater and gallente though.
Thats quite funny because tracking disruptors affect lasers more then they affect rails or projectiles.
*cough* falloff is your saviour *cough*
That's why I said they are effective against amarr at range. Tracking disruptors work against rails and artillery at close range, and they work against lasers at long range.
And the geddon I attacked may have been at 20km, not sure exactly, but in any case, I was within his adjusted falloff, not sure how, perhaps he had long range crystals in.
*cough* tracking speed is your saviour *cough*
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