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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.08.29 20:56:00 -
[1]
Ok, I must admit. I've had a ton of fun using these modules on people in the past little while. I equip one on just about any ship, and it enables me to defeat any other turret ship without a shred of risk. It's like pushing a button labeled "Win PVP" at the start of every engagement. They can't be countered realistically (a single tracking disruptor requires about... four tracking computers to counter-act), they have great optimal range, and they don't cost very much energy to use. Just mounting one on my Zealot means it will defeat every turret ship it faces, almost unconditionally.
This is worth a look. Perhaps not through the direct route of simply nerfing the ruptor, but perhaps boosting tracking computers so they can actually counter a tracking ruptor?
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.29 20:59:00 -
[2]
They are extremely good, but I'm not sure if they really need a nerf because they are rarly used. There are alot of items that are extremely good and technically should be nerfed but don't actually need it because nobody uses them...
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:02:00 -
[3]
Pssshh.
Seriously, those are flavour of the month(s). I've been using them when ppl were still using painters. But! They don't affect missiles and drones. So Your zealot can fit very many and domi or ishtar will still pop u. Also cerberus might(lol)
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:03:00 -
[4]
They are not very effective against amarr bs's unless you are going long range. They are very effective against minmater and gallente though.
I think they are fine for now though...you need good skills to be effective with them and of course they don't apply to missle users.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:07:00 -
[5]
They're pretty harsh, aye.
Dunno if tracking computers can be boosted to work as full counters to these, though... if they're changed this way, a ship with 2 tracking computers and 250mm rails would have something like 60km optimal with antimatter and tracking better than 150mm rail to boot... o.x;
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:09:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 29/08/2005 21:11:06
 Quote:
They are not very effective against amarr bs's unless you are going long range.
I don't know about that. Having that tracking disruptor on my Zealot pretty much allowed me to annihilate a ganka from 30km starting positions. I undocked, he was 30km from station exit, I put the ruptor (tech II with lvl 4 spec skill) on him, made a lateral approach... and it didn't land hits on me at all, save for the drones it crapped out. If a single module can neuter seven mega pulses that badly, I think something's up.
I'm mostly posting this now because I notice people starting to use them against me, which simply cannot be allowed. Nerf! NERF.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:13:00 -
[7]
"I'm mostly posting this now because I notice people starting to use them against me, which simply cannot be allowed. Nerf! NERF."
^,^
part of that 'geddon problem could be, the pilot didn't notice disruptors were put on him, and was trying to shoot you with lenses that he thought were putting you in his optimal... withour realizing he's now shooting well into the falloff?
Not sure if tactical view updates with the tracking disruptors applied, but if so then it'd be one more reason to use this thing in fight... until we get proper indicators of what's being done to one's ship, anyway.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:17:00 -
[8]
Quote:
I'm mostly posting this now because I notice people starting to use them against me, which simply cannot be allowed. Nerf! NERF.
I agree that this cannot be allowed.
Got any ideas on how to fix them though? I'm coming up pritty blank. Boosting tracking comps wouldn't work for reasons already stated, and if the tracking disrupters were nerfed down to what a tracking comp does they wouldn't be worth the med slot...I suppose if it was only a very slight nerf, but who ever heard of a very slight nerf?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:18:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 29/08/2005 21:21:11
Get back in your closet HG.
Tracking disruptors are fine. :)
Oh wait I forgot, LASER GUN/SENSOR BOOSTER/HEAT SINK might have a counter, oh dear we can't have that now can we.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Hakera
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: j0sephine
until we get proper indicators of what's being done to one's ship, anyway.
doesn't all aggressive ew have a bar above your control panel when you get affected?
If it doesnt, maybe it should have :)
EW used to be a 2:1 counter, so 2 tracking comps to counter 1 ruptor, 46% penatly speed/opt against a TE2 which is 15% & 9.5% so yeah prob a tad high :) maybe lower it to 35% for t2 with 25% for t1
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
pardux
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 29/08/2005 21:21:11
Get back in your closet HG.
Tracking disruptors are fine. :)
Oh wait I forgot, LASER GUN/SENSOR BOOSTER/HEAT SINK might have a counter, oh dear we can't have that now can we.
stop whining >_>
and a nerf for tracking distruptors is a good thing :]
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:28:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 29/08/2005 21:30:55
Quote:
Got any ideas on how to fix them though? I'm coming up pritty blank. Boosting tracking comps wouldn't work for reasons already stated, and if the tracking disrupters were nerfed down to what a tracking comp does they wouldn't be worth the med slot...I suppose if it was only a very slight nerf, but who ever heard of a very slight nerf?
Yeah, that's the tough question, how to bring them in line without turning them into invulnerability fields, forlorn modules of the before-time.
I still think the answer lies in the tracking computer. It's a midslot module, right - so what I feel should be done, is the Tracking Computer gets boosted to 50% range and say, 15% tracking bonus... but it also gets large increases in CPU (to 80ish) and energy drain per cycle. This leaves the lowslot Tracking Enhancer for small improvements in range, and boosts the tracking comp to an effective tracking disruptor counter that you simply can't mount too many of.
I don't even know if that'd be a good solution, since it'd turn gankas back into monsters, but something should probably be done about tracking ruptors. They're making this game too easy for me.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:36:00 -
[13]
well 0.4 modifier to range and 0.4 to tracking... Is lol. And nobody said that u use one only... Put 3 on a gunship... and u can wait that he runs out of ammo and kill him then
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Alerce
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:39:00 -
[14]
They do NOT work vs NPC right?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:41:00 -
[15]
"I don't even know if that'd be a good solution, since it'd turn gankas back into monsters, but something should probably be done about tracking ruptors. They're making this game too easy for me."
Maybe if disruptors affected optimal range of guns, only? Then the counter would be to swap for weaker ammo... meaning the person running disruptors would be hit for less overall, but still would get hit. o.O;
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 29/08/2005 21:30:55
Quote:
Got any ideas on how to fix them though? I'm coming up pritty blank. Boosting tracking comps wouldn't work for reasons already stated, and if the tracking disrupters were nerfed down to what a tracking comp does they wouldn't be worth the med slot...I suppose if it was only a very slight nerf, but who ever heard of a very slight nerf?
Yeah, that's the tough question, how to bring them in line without turning them into invulnerability fields, forlorn modules of the before-time.
I still think the answer lies in the tracking computer. It's a midslot module, right - so what I feel should be done, is the Tracking Computer gets boosted to 50% range and say, 15% tracking bonus... but it also gets large increases in CPU (to 80ish) and energy drain per cycle. This leaves the lowslot Tracking Enhancer for small improvements in range, and boosts the tracking comp to an effective tracking disruptor counter that you simply can't mount too many of.
I don't even know if that'd be a good solution, since it'd turn gankas back into monsters, but something should probably be done about tracking ruptors. They're making this game too easy for me.
Yeah, don't think this will work. For example, right now a gate sniping tempest does something like 2x sensor boosters, 3x tracking comps. With a change like this they would just do 3 or 4 sensor boosters and 1 or 2 tracking comps, so snipers and gankers would just be too strong with these.
A range or falloff nerf wouldn't do it either, as that's not really the issue so much and wouldn't fix the problem...So it would have to be a reduction in the amount of the tracking disrupter does 
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Hanns
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:46:00 -
[17]
Can CCP also nerf NOS Vs smaller targets at the same time as nerfin ruptors 
Heavy NOS 4tw! |
Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: j0sephine
"I don't even know if that'd be a good solution, since it'd turn gankas back into monsters, but something should probably be done about tracking ruptors. They're making this game too easy for me."
Maybe if disruptors affected optimal range of guns, only? Then the counter would be to swap for weaker ammo... meaning the person running disruptors would be hit for less overall, but still would get hit. o.O;
This would effectivly make them totally worthless, as you'd just be better off fitting a tracking comp or target painter to try to buff yourself rather than decrease them.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:51:00 -
[19]
a game where only your rof and dmg mod mattered would be very boring sorry..
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:52:00 -
[20]
"This would effectivly make them totally worthless, as you'd just be better off fitting a tracking comp or target painter to try to buff yourself rather than decrease them."
Well, halving the other guy's optimal means they have to use ammo that's doing ~33% less damage, to get back to the optimal they had... this would seem to me like an okay advantage, i mean i don't think you get much more than 30% of extra damage out of single painter or tracking computer... but would need to be tested, i guess. ^^;;
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:08:00 -
[21]
You used a T2 tracking disruptor with lvl 4 advanced skills on a geddon and you were in a hac and he didn't hit you? Sounds about right to me. You were in a cruiser.
I, however, put 2 T2 tracking disruptors on a gankageddon in my tempest at about 25km and he still hit me very hard, and yes I have the advanced skill at lvl 4.
I think these modules work just fine. Its nice to see that people are actually starting to think about setups other than gank setups again...eve might become a thinking man's game once again. 
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
You used a T2 tracking disruptor with lvl 4 advanced skills on a geddon and you were in a hac and he didn't hit you? Sounds about right to me. You were in a cruiser.
I, however, put 2 T2 tracking disruptors on a gankageddon in my tempest at about 25km and he still hit me very hard, and yes I have the advanced skill at lvl 4.
I think these modules work just fine. Its nice to see that people are actually starting to think about setups other than gank setups again...eve might become a thinking man's game once again.
god forbid.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
They are not very effective against amarr bs's unless you are going long range. They are very effective against minmater and gallente though.
Thats quite funny because tracking disruptors affect lasers more then they affect rails or projectiles.
*cough* falloff is your saviour *cough*
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:45:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Meridius on 29/08/2005 22:46:31
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
I, however, put 2 T2 tracking disruptors on a gankageddon in my tempest at about 25km and he still hit me very hard, and yes I have the advanced skill at lvl 4.
A tracking disruptor II with skills can penalize the targeted ships turrets by 64%.
That means a geddon with an optimal of 40km (using microwave or some other *** crystal) would now have a an optimal of 15.3km.
Thats with just 1 tracking disruptor, heh. I don't see how the geddon you were attacking could hit you period with 2 TD II's and decent skills.
Oh and i'm not pro-nerf, i'm on the fence atm
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: j0sephine
part of that 'geddon problem could be, the pilot didn't notice disruptors were put on him, and was trying to shoot you with lenses that he thought were putting you in his optimal... withour realizing he's now shooting well into the falloff?
Changing crystals doesn't matter much when you have the tracking of an XL turret
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Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:55:00 -
[26]
They do seem overpowered.
Maybe a module which specifically counters tracking disruptors but has a negative effect on your own turret boosting. -90% to the effect of any modules on turret optimals/range.
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Posted - 2005.08.29 23:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Ok, I must admit. I've had a ton of fun using these modules on people in the past little while. I equip one on just about any ship, and it enables me to defeat any other turret ship without a shred of risk. It's like pushing a button labeled "Win PVP" at the start of every engagement. They can't be countered realistically (a single tracking disruptor requires about... four tracking computers to counter-act), they have great optimal range, and they don't cost very much energy to use. Just mounting one on my Zealot means it will defeat every turret ship it faces, almost unconditionally.
This is worth a look. Perhaps not through the direct route of simply nerfing the ruptor, but perhaps boosting tracking computers so they can actually counter a tracking ruptor?
CPP does not neft this game its players that do, im looking forward to another useless midslot item in the kali patch. 
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"Taking one for the team one ship at a time."
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SpaceDrake Storyteller
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Posted - 2005.08.29 23:24:00 -
[28]
I've got a Tracking Disruptor I mounted on my Proph (crap skills with Lucca ATM) and I'm wondering why people don't use these more often. They're like an off switch for gunships that can't fail. About the only way to beat them is to get out of their optimal.
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What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward?
Player of the character "Lucca Deradi." Former player of "Andre Ricard." |
Azuriel Talloth
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Posted - 2005.08.29 23:47:00 -
[29]
Won't a 90% webber help counter it? Don't need much tracking to hit a webbed ship...
"Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory,
for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated." |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.30 00:16:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 30/08/2005 00:29:34
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
They are not very effective against amarr bs's unless you are going long range. They are very effective against minmater and gallente though.
Thats quite funny because tracking disruptors affect lasers more then they affect rails or projectiles.
*cough* falloff is your saviour *cough*
That's why I said they are effective against amarr at range. Tracking disruptors work against rails and artillery at close range, and they work against lasers at long range.
And the geddon I attacked may have been at 20km, not sure exactly, but in any case, I was within his adjusted falloff, not sure how, perhaps he had long range crystals in.
*cough* tracking speed is your saviour *cough*
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missusblonde
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Posted - 2005.08.30 00:36:00 -
[31]
Edited by: missusblonde on 30/08/2005 00:37:40
nm
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without
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Posted - 2005.08.30 00:47:00 -
[32]
not effective VS short range weapons that use their falloff more htan their optimal.
like blasters
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.30 01:03:00 -
[33]
they do not work on autocannons either, i used two on a muninn with dual 180mm and it still hit me from 10km.. and i was using tech2 and turret destablization skill @ 3.
seriously though tracking disruptors are fine, all you guys get hot headed when anyone dares say that dmg mod stacking is perfectly okay and your 1100 dps armageddons are perfectly balanced yet there is one or two modules that give you a chance in hell of defeating such a ship head on and you are looking to nerf it into oblivion.
until ccp reduces the insane dmg output on ships, tracking disruptors are fine they way they are.. as someone who uses missiles (AKA WORST DPS WEAPONS IN EVE) they are the only shot i have against a zealot or armageddon or any other huge DPS pwn u in 5 seconds flat ship..
so all you amarr laser toting gangstas should just drop it.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.30 01:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
they do not work on autocannons either, i used two on a muninn with dual 180mm and it still hit me from 10km.. and i was using tech2 and turret destablization skill @ 3.
Yeah I think the auto's only affect optimal and don't affect falloff, which means they are worthless against autocannons unless you have a really good transversal and small sig radius.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.08.30 01:42:00 -
[35]
I think the nail was hit on the head by the guy making the snide remark about Nosferatu or Energy Neutralizers.
Tracking disruptors are hell on ships bigger than you, Neutralizers are hell on ships smaller than you.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.30 02:17:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
That's why I said they are effective against amarr at range. Tracking disruptors work against rails and artillery at close range, and they work against lasers at long range.
And the geddon I attacked may have been at 20km, not sure exactly, but in any case, I was within his adjusted falloff, not sure how, perhaps he had long range crystals in.
*cough* tracking speed is your saviour *cough*
Well my point was it does next to nothing range wise for artillery/blasters compared to mega pulse. That is quite a nice advantage.
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Oriana Fallaci
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Posted - 2005.08.30 10:46:00 -
[37]
Tracking Disruptors are imbalanced.
I mean, its ok if you get a big advantage by using disruptors if youre enemy did not defend against it.
However, as it stands, even if your enemy is aware of tracking disruptors being used, he cant do anything to counter it.
Tracking Computers and enhancers are not a counter, they take a lot of slots just to negate the effect of one disruptor...
And being able to use disruptors is not just a "situation", its the norm as three of four races fall prey to them.
Regarding slot usage, I suggest that disruptors should be countered 1vs1 with tracking computers, or make them chance based like ECM and thus counterable by boosting sensor strength.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.08.30 11:39:00 -
[38]
Edited by: LUKEC on 30/08/2005 11:45:33
OMG i cannot defeat 4x wcs raven with ECM on med slots...
Topic turned into something like that. I will not say that disruptors are fine, but then are not SO overpowered.
Jamming is still way better. Yes it has chances to fail, but... then enemy can only warp out. As far as i'm concerned they can put as much that crap on domi or raven as they want. But if your fleet consists of gankatempests.... that is your problem.
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Bazman
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Posted - 2005.08.30 11:53:00 -
[39]
Tracking Disrupters are quite fun to use, but yes, overpowered. Isn't it funny how after one thing gets fixed we adapt then find something else that is totally overpowering? :D
Tracking Disrupter I's should give maybe a -20 to -25% tracking penalty while TD II's should go to about 35% penalty. That would bring it into line with tracking comps and the like.
^¼_¼^
this is bazman. copy bazman into your bio
to help him on his way to world domination |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.30 11:53:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 30/08/2005 11:54:52
Quote:
However, as it stands, even if your enemy is aware of tracking disruptors being used, he cant do anything to counter it.
Yes he can, he can jam you.
Tracking disruptors are very good, but they're not as good as ECM modules.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.08.30 12:01:00 -
[41]
Untill they screw missiles & drones there is nothing to fix.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.30 13:19:00 -
[42]
I heard cap flux coils were overpowered.
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.08.30 13:36:00 -
[43]
Not a solution, but to make it a little bit more fair is to make the requirement for the very powerful T2 EW modules all have a level 5 requirement in the necessary skill.
It won't solve the problem but 2 weeks of training for any of those, will reduce the common use of them.
Spacerats recruiting! |
Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.08.30 13:45:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Tobiaz on 30/08/2005 13:45:52
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 30/08/2005 11:54:52
Quote:
However, as it stands, even if your enemy is aware of tracking disruptors being used, he cant do anything to counter it.
Yes he can, he can jam you.
Tracking disruptors are very good, but they're not as good as ECM modules.
Tracking disruptors are more failproof then ECM, which requires several of them or a Scorpion to be used against a battleship with good chance of succes.
Tracking disruptors are more sneaky then ECM. It won't give you as much indication that you are being messed up by EW.
Spacerats recruiting! |
mahhy
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Posted - 2005.08.30 13:58:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tobiaz
Tracking disruptors are more sneaky then ECM. It won't give you as much indication that you are being messed up by EW.
Anyone tested if the combat view thingy indicates your range being cut in half? Can't remember what its called, was introduced with Shiva I think? Gives an in space around the ship view of ranges?
/me turns it on permanently.
I hate disruptors (used on me!) and it would be nice to have something that could be used to counter their effects, at least a bit. But really they're not that bad. One screws you up if you're not expecting it, but anyone whos not expecting it for the last 6 months is blind 
Its when you run into ships running 3+ of them you're totally screwed. Absolutely nothing you can do to defend against it 
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Alberta
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Posted - 2005.08.30 16:06:00 -
[46]
Originally by: mahhy
Originally by: Tobiaz
Tracking disruptors are more sneaky then ECM. It won't give you as much indication that you are being messed up by EW.
Anyone tested if the combat view thingy indicates your range being cut in half? Can't remember what its called, was introduced with Shiva I think? Gives an in space around the ship view of ranges?
Sorry to go slightly off topic, but does anybody actually use the tactical overlay? I remember thinking "wow, that looks nice" when I first saw it. Never actually used it though.
My Thoughts on Game Balance |
rocky mcdigsalot
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Posted - 2005.08.30 16:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Hanns
Can CCP also nerf NOS Vs smaller targets at the same time as nerfin ruptors
Frigates should not be invulnerable.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.30 16:17:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Alberta
Originally by: mahhy
Originally by: Tobiaz
Tracking disruptors are more sneaky then ECM. It won't give you as much indication that you are being messed up by EW.
Anyone tested if the combat view thingy indicates your range being cut in half? Can't remember what its called, was introduced with Shiva I think? Gives an in space around the ship view of ranges?
Sorry to go slightly off topic, but does anybody actually use the tactical overlay? I remember thinking "wow, that looks nice" when I first saw it. Never actually used it though.
Nah, think it's one of those things that looks pretty but has no practical use...except in this case i suppose.
Can anyone confirm that the range bubble shrinks when tracking disruptors are activated against you?
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Vee Bot
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Posted - 2005.08.30 16:20:00 -
[49]
Originally by: rocky mcdigsalot
Originally by: Hanns
Can CCP also nerf NOS Vs smaller targets at the same time as nerfin ruptors
Frigates should not be invulnerable.
IMO I think Nos and tracking rupters are in the same boat:
They are both loved and hated and the only thing thats actually wrong with them is the effectiveness of just a single module.
They should boht be kept, i hate tracking rupters in turret boats, and i hate BS nos when in anything smaller than a BC. Just tweak the amounts, say 1/2 as much vamp drain for nos, and 1/2 to a 1/3 less tracking/range for the rupters.
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Remember that your Unique, like everyone else. |
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