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Isayeki Ohaya
FlutterMac Shipping
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 14:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
As we all know, there is no real PVP going on in null. However, a donut seems to imply there is an area in the middle where there is conflict, or real PVP, or something going on. However, the middle is hisec, which is even more blue than null. I propose the term "Blue Cookie" to reflect how essentially all of Eve is blue to each other. This accurately reflects how there is no real PVP anymore, and how everyone gets a cookie for playing in the form or SRP from their moon goo. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1241
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 14:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
0/10
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Eve Amada
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
39
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 14:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:As we all know, there is no real PVP going on in null. However, a donut seems to imply there is an area in the middle where there is conflict, or real PVP, or something going on. However, the middle is hisec, which is even more blue than null. I propose the term "Blue Cookie" to reflect how essentially all of Eve is blue to each other. This accurately reflects how there is no real PVP anymore, and how everyone gets a cookie for playing in the form or SRP from their moon goo.
Wrong!
The middle is where the juicy filling is which is made up of all fat & no good for you.
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Tom Gerard
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
988
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 14:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
I believe "brown rim" is more appropriate. One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Pantiy
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
56
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 14:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
the whole donut term is well misleading as hell. look at test and or goons killboards. or ours for that matter. if we were all blue there would be no kills right? hate to tell you guys but your bieng trolled on the highest level. we are fighting like mad in null. want some proof? http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?br=http%3A%2F%2Feve-kill.net%2F%3Fa%3Dkill_related%26kll_id%3D16954635&Raiden_=blueÞ_Alliance=blue&WALLTREIPERS_ALLIANCE=blue&Test_Alliance_Please_Ignore=blue&Tribal_Band=blue&Unclaimed_=blue&EntroPraetorian_Aegis=blue&Initiative_Mercenaries=blue&Darkness_of_Despair=red&Insidious_Empire=blue&The_Gurlstas_Associates=blue&Test_Friends_Please_Ignore=blue&Against_ALL_Authorities=red#assign
http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?br=http%3A%2F%2Feve-kill.net%2F%3Fa%3Dkill_related%26kll_id%3D16957678&Test_Alliance_Please_Ignore=blue&Raiden_=blue&Tribal_Band=blue&WALLTREIPERS_ALLIANCE=blue&Unclaimed_=blue&Cha_Ching_PLC=blue&Darkness_of_Despair=red&EntroPraetorian_Aegis=blue&Test_Friends_Please_Ignore=blueÞ_Alliance=blue&Claimed_=blue&Insidious_Empire=blue&Squee_=blue&No_value=red&Against_ALL_Authorities=red&Stain_Empire=red#assign
this is only but a small ammount of what went on yesterday. and we do this 7 days a wekk 23/7
~|~(~-á (~~|~-á-á -á |-á-á (__)-á-á-á |
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Ager Agemo
Imperial Collective
251
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 14:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Does that means wormholes are the milk where the cookies crumble ? |
Isayeki Ohaya
FlutterMac Shipping
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 14:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
You guys aren't fighting over anything of value though. There's no sov war going on, no structures being shot. You undock what your SRP will replace for you, if there's any risk you might lose isk, you don't fight. It's not real PVP when it's without consequences.
Wormhole space seems to be the last refuge of PVP in eve. |
Milan Nantucket
New Eden Misfits
16
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Not really... turn on the pvp stuff in your map... red in the center with a blue nap around the edge... looks like a donut. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1731
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pantiy wrote:the whole donut term is well misleading as hell. look at test and or goons killboards. or ours for that matter. if we were all blue there would be no kills right?..
Its not the pilots that are blue to each other, its the solar systems that are blue. That is; its OK to kill the other pilot, but never ever attack their solar system. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Isayeki Ohaya
FlutterMac Shipping
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Pantiy wrote:the whole donut term is well misleading as hell. look at test and or goons killboards. or ours for that matter. if we were all blue there would be no kills right?..
Its not the pilots that are blue to each other, its the solar systems that are blue. That is; its OK to kill the other pilot, but never ever attack their solar system.
Exactly! There is no real PVP going on right now. It's all staged risk free PVP. Hisec has the most kills because it offers the safest PVP, where in null there could be actual risk so the leaders eliminated real pvp altogether to protect their botting empires. |
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Isayeki Ohaya
FlutterMac Shipping
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Milan Nantucket wrote:Not really... turn on the pvp stuff in your map... red in the center with all the goodness of nullsecbear alts mining with a blue nap around the edge... looks like a donut.
Most of those ships are lost to rats, there's no real PVP going on |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1217
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pantiy wrote:the whole donut term is well misleading as hell. look at test and or goons killboards. or ours for that matter. if we were all blue there would be no kills right? hate to tell you guys but your bieng trolled on the highest level. we are fighting like mad in null. want some proof?
Yes yes, we know that CFC & HBC aren't blue to each other. That's a concession to keep the PvP rank and file from getting bored and wandering off to play another game, weakening the overall forces available to summon should an actual sov war break out.
The problem is that, like the cold war, a level of Mutually Assured Destruction has been reached that is unacceptable to the leadership on either side, so while you may not be blue, you do have significant NIP's in place that prevent any long term conflict from breaking out.
Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.
I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1520
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:As we all know, there is no real PVP going on in null. However, a donut seems to imply there is an area in the middle where there is conflict, or real PVP, or something going on. However, the middle is hisec, which is even more blue than null. I propose the term "Blue Cookie" to reflect how essentially all of Eve is blue to each other. This accurately reflects how there is no real PVP anymore, and how everyone gets a cookie for playing in the form or SRP from their moon goo.
I can't imagine the level of jealousy and angst a person must have to make one look at a situation (like null sec, or pvp in general) and come to such provably incorrect (not to mention trollish) conclusion.
To belive in this "blue food" idiocy, you'd have to think that:
A- Every null sec alliance and colaition is fueld by "moon goo"
And
B- Only sov related PVP is PVP.
The 1st is demonstrably untrue (only 500 Tech moons in the whole game, Alliance get income from lots of sources like rent, levys from member corps etc etc), the 2nd is a crazy rationalization that could only be adopted by someone with an agenda.
The real truth is that, while "Sov" could be better, nothing is terribly wrong with null sec (same with low sec). The problem is that your average gamer is an anti-social, risk averse (omg I can't lose my pixels) nerd. no amount of gerrymandering the game to encourage people out of high sec is going to change that basic fact, therefore even "hardcore" games like EVE online will eventually be overrun by carebears who sit safely in protected space complaining about "Blue" stuff.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3261
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
If you want to know where REAL conflict is happening, just look up recent SBU and TCU kills on eve-kill.net.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Isayeki Ohaya
FlutterMac Shipping
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Isayeki Ohaya wrote:As we all know, there is no real PVP going on in null. However, a donut seems to imply there is an area in the middle where there is conflict, or real PVP, or something going on. However, the middle is hisec, which is even more blue than null. I propose the term "Blue Cookie" to reflect how essentially all of Eve is blue to each other. This accurately reflects how there is no real PVP anymore, and how everyone gets a cookie for playing in the form or SRP from their moon goo. I can't imagine the level of jealousy and angst a person must have to make one look at a situation (like null sec, or pvp in general) and come to such provably incorrect (not to mention trollish) conclusion. To belive in this "blue food" idiocy, you'd have to think that: A- Every null sec alliance and colaition is fueld by "moon goo" And B- Only sov related PVP is PVP. The 1st is demonstrably untrue (only 500 Tech moons in the whole game, Alliance get income from lots of sources like rent, levys from member corps etc etc), the 2nd is a crazy rationalization that could only be adopted by someone with an agenda. The real truth is that, while "Sov" could be better, nothing is terribly wrong with null sec (same with low sec). The problem is that your average gamer is an anti-social, risk averse (omg I can't lose my pixels) nerd. no amount of gerrymandering the game to encourage people out of high sec is going to change that basic fact, therefore even "hardcore" games like EVE online will eventually be overrun by carebears who sit safely in protected space complaining about "Blue" stuff.
Just to respond to your points.
A- Every null sec alliance and colaition is fueld by "moon goo"
The two relevant coalitions are. Sure, there are other alliances and coalitions in eve, but they aren't more than a bump in the road to the two tech coalitions. There are also renters as income, but renters are basically the same as tech moons. As long as structures aren't getting shot, they're not at risk.
B- Only sov related PVP is PVP.
No, only PVP where both parties are risking something is real PVP. Fleets shooting other fleets for fun isn't real PVP, all the ships are reimbursed and no one loses anything. Ganking in hisec isn't real PVP, the ganker risks nothing. Hot drops aren't real PVP, the dropper risks nothing, etc. Real PVP involves risk by both sides, which only happens in WH space these days. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1217
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
The real truth is that, while "Sov" could be better, nothing is terribly wrong with null sec (same with low sec).
I'm sorry Jenn, normally I agree with what you say, but this is pretty far off the mark. There are terrible issues with null (I try not to speak too much about low, since I rarely spend any time there) that reach far beyond sov mechanics. The Goons in particular, bless them, continually point out the problems by taking ruthless advantage of them, and CCP just continues to ignore them in favor of fixing the BotM (***** of the Month) because, frankly, fixing null sec is so hard they don't have a clue, in my opinion, of how to do it or even where to start. It's like handing someone a pick and a shovel, pointing at a mountain range full of iron and stone and saying "Build me the Empire State Building."
They've created an 800 pound gorilla of a problem. What they need is a 1000 pound solution, and they just don't have one. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
941
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
there is no pvp anymore
i'm right because i don't count anything as pvp |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1217
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:If you want to know where REAL conflict is happening, just look up recent SBU and TCU kills on eve-kill.net.
The war in the east is good, but it's not nearly enough.
Though maybe "blue doughnut" should be "blue croissant". Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Dash Bishop
State War Academy Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.
I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to.
Apparently you've been under a rock lately.
HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage.
Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT. |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
43
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
If it was a donut I would have eaten it by now. |
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De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1217
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dash Bishop wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.
I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to. Apparently you've been under a rock lately. HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage. Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT.
Except I don't think it is - the right time I mean. As much as the members of the HBC are squabbling like twins made to share the same bedroom for too long, I think they'd unite fairly rapidly when faced with a common enemy. Now, if an actual shooting war breaks out within the HBC, I may revise my stance. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Dash Bishop
State War Academy Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 16:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Except I don't think it is - the right time I mean. As much as the members of the HBC are squabbling like twins made to share the same bedroom for too long, I think they'd unite fairly rapidly when faced with a common enemy. Now, if an actual shooting war breaks out within the HBC, I may revise my stance.
Valid points.
Either way, it doesn't matter to me. It seems that a lot of players are fascinated by the whole HBC vs CFC thing, like it's some kind of reality tv show. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1217
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 16:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dash Bishop wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Except I don't think it is - the right time I mean. As much as the members of the HBC are squabbling like twins made to share the same bedroom for too long, I think they'd unite fairly rapidly when faced with a common enemy. Now, if an actual shooting war breaks out within the HBC, I may revise my stance. Valid points. Either way, it doesn't matter to me. It seems that a lot of players are fascinated by the whole HBC vs CFC thing, like it's some kind of reality tv show.
It's certainly scripted like one. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
Xearal
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
545
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 16:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dash Bishop wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Except I don't think it is - the right time I mean. As much as the members of the HBC are squabbling like twins made to share the same bedroom for too long, I think they'd unite fairly rapidly when faced with a common enemy. Now, if an actual shooting war breaks out within the HBC, I may revise my stance. Valid points. Either way, it doesn't matter to me. It seems that a lot of players are fascinated by the whole HBC vs CFC thing, like it's some kind of reality tv show.
Eve Reality, Best reality? I was there and all.. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1520
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 16:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:
Just to respond to your points.
A- Every null sec alliance and colaition is fueld by "moon goo"
The two relevant coalitions are. Sure, there are other alliances and coalitions in eve, but they aren't more than a bump in the road to the two tech coalitions. There are also renters as income, but renters are basically the same as tech moons. As long as structures aren't getting shot, they're not at risk.
B- Only sov related PVP is PVP.
No, only PVP where both parties are risking something is real PVP. Fleets shooting other fleets for fun isn't real PVP, all the ships are reimbursed and no one loses anything. Ganking in hisec isn't real PVP, the ganker risks nothing. Hot drops aren't real PVP, the dropper risks nothing, etc. Real PVP involves risk by both sides, which only happens in WH space these days.
And this is where you destroy your own argument. By that narrow definition of pvp, there has NEVER been any pvp in EVE except 2 noobs 1v1ing in Rifters with 0 isk in their wallets. When i was in faciton warfare, the FW missions paid so much (even in the beginning) that I could through drake after drake after megathron after megathron at the Squids (Caldari) that I never had to blink. Litterally 1 afternoon of missions kept me in ships for week.
Same as now with high sec incursions funding what null sec pvp i do sometimes participate in.
It doesn't make sense. PVP is "player vs player", not "player vs player for some reason some dude on a forum finds acceptable". Everytime a player blows up another player under any circumstances, that pvp whether you like it or not.
Their is plenty of pvp going on, there's even sov grinding going on. The "2 big coalitions" are noting new, it was the same way back when it was "the universe vs BoB" and Russians+friends Vs the old NC.
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Shobon Welp
GoonFleet Band of Brothers
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 17:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:If you want to know where REAL conflict is happening, just look up recent SBU and TCU kills on eve-kill.net. Shooting inanimate structures is REAL PVP. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
379
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 17:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
"Everything is true, from a certain point of view." --- That Guy.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
396
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Milan Nantucket wrote:Not really... turn on the pvp stuff in your map... red in the center with all the goodness of nullsecbear alts mining with a blue nap around the edge... looks like a donut.
Someone has taken a bit out of it though, there's a big chunk missing north of the Outer Ring. |
Arronicus
vintas industries Mistakes Were Made.
401
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Doughnuts usually have a hollow centre. Boston Creams, Longjohns, and Creampies are just fanciful pastry creations given the name of doughnut based on the style they are cooked in.
Therefore, no, the name is not misleading at all, and actually rather accurate, as the 'blue doughnut' in Eve, forms a 0.0 ring around much of highsec.
0/10. |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Isayeki Ohaya wrote: You guys aren't fighting over anything of value though. There's no sov war going on, no structures being shot. You undock what your SRP will replace for you, if there's any risk you might lose isk, you don't fight. It's not real PVP when it's without consequences.
Wormhole space seems to be the last refuge of PVP in eve.
Riddle me this
Why are cap escalations, paying hundreds of millions in isk per hour, OK. To the tune of welping a dread 5 guardians a Bhaal and 20 shiny T3's being "acceptable losses" on a bad night. Yet moon goo paying for ship replacement is bad. What is it that, in your mind, makes cap escalated loot any different than moon goo.
Why is jumping throway fleets into another wormhole "real pvp", but fighting with throwaway ships in null is "no consequence". Is it because WH corps throw away 30 1bil ships while null throws away 300 100mil ships? Think about that for a minute.
By your logic wormholes are just as bad, they don't evict each other and try to conquer every single W-space system under the flag of their one particular alliance. They are not fighting over anything of value. If anything, null is emulating what is going on in wormholes. Farming ISK to a comfortable level, then throwing it away for the off chance of a gudfite where you win nothing, beyond the memory of a night of good pew pew. A night where you got a fight and didn't get blobbed is a good night.
By your logic every C6 corp should be mass producing dreads right now and trying to take control of every single system their static can possibly connect to. After all, this is what you expect of Null - go conquer neighboring systems to expand the empire. The PvP in W-space is good because they don't do this. They leave opponents to prosper near by. So that they have readily accessible people willing to fight, who can throw away ships in equal number and value.
Why is that an acceptable practice in W-Space, but not in Null? Why do they have to go shoot buildings for days under TiDi to please you?
|
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1520
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:Isayeki Ohaya wrote: You guys aren't fighting over anything of value though. There's no sov war going on, no structures being shot. You undock what your SRP will replace for you, if there's any risk you might lose isk, you don't fight. It's not real PVP when it's without consequences.
Wormhole space seems to be the last refuge of PVP in eve.
Riddle me this Why are cap escalations, paying hundreds of millions in isk per hour, OK. To the tune of welping a dread 5 guardians a Bhaal and 20 shiny T3's being "acceptable losses" on a bad night. Yet moon goo paying for ship replacement is bad. What is it that, in your mind, makes cap escalated loot any different than moon goo. Why is jumping throway fleets into another wormhole "real pvp", but fighting with throwaway ships in null is "no consequence". Is it because WH corps throw away 30 1bil ships while null throws away 300 100mil ships? Think about that for a minute. By your logic wormholes are just as bad, they don't evict each other and try to conquer every single W-space system under the flag of their one particular alliance. They are not fighting over anything of value. If anything, null is emulating what is going on in wormholes. Farming ISK to a comfortable level, then throwing it away for the off chance of a gudfite where you win nothing, beyond the memory of a night of good pew pew. A night where you got a fight and didn't get blobbed is a good night. By your logic every C6 corp should be mass producing dreads right now and trying to take control of every single system their static can possibly connect to. After all, this is what you expect of Null - go conquer neighboring systems to expand the empire. The PvP in W-space is good because they don't do this. They leave opponents to prosper near by. So that they have readily accessible people willing to fight, who can throw away ships in equal number and value. Why is that an acceptable practice in W-Space, but not in Null? Why do they have to go shoot buildings for days under TiDi to please you?
OP = pwned
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4415
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ladies and gentlemen: The Blue Donut. http://i.imgur.com/iBENb1t.png Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7201
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dash Bishop wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.
I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to. Apparently you've been under a rock lately. HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage. Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT.
maybe you should submit your evidence of RMT to [email protected]
oh wait you don't have any and you're just blowing smoke, l0l ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7201
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
the peasants are upset that the lords are not feuding because whenever the lords are not feuding, they stop by to flog peasants ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1731
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Dash Bishop wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Except I don't think it is - the right time I mean. As much as the members of the HBC are squabbling like twins made to share the same bedroom for too long, I think they'd unite fairly rapidly when faced with a common enemy. Now, if an actual shooting war breaks out within the HBC, I may revise my stance. Valid points. Either way, it doesn't matter to me. It seems that a lot of players are fascinated by the whole HBC vs CFC thing, like it's some kind of reality tv show.
DUH http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1959
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:You guys aren't fighting over anything of value though. There's no sov war going on, no structures being shot. You undock what your SRP will replace for you, if there's any risk you might lose isk, you don't fight. It's not real PVP when it's without consequences. Wormhole space seems to be the last refuge of PVP in eve. But, there's no shooting structures in Wormholes as well. So yes, there's no PVP in Eve. "I'd rather have other players-áget shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1959
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:No, only PVP where both parties are risking something is real PVP. Fleets shooting other fleets for fun isn't real PVP, all the ships are reimbursed and no one loses anything. Ganking in hisec isn't real PVP, the ganker risks nothing. Hot drops aren't real PVP, the dropper risks nothing, etc. Real PVP involves risk by both sides, which only happens in WH space these days. Yes, and pop isn't real music, and prius is not a real car either.
Dash Bishop wrote: Apparently you've been under a rock lately.
HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage.
Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT.
Apparently, you've been seeing things from way up there, perhaps you want to borrow my binocular? you know, so you can actually see things rather than tiny dots? "I'd rather have other players-áget shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave |
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
9
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
If conflict in 0.0 sec is grinding to a halt, at some point the CCP infiltrators in the big alliances will do their thing and then watch the glory of big alliances going up in flames.
It happened before and it will happen again
Offcourse the rumours of CCP infiltrators are hard to prove |
Athena Maldoran
Special Nymphs On A Mission
1151
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Everyone know is just building up to a massive FFA |
Kainotomiu Ronuken
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
976
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dash Bishop wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.
I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to. Apparently you've been under a rock lately. HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage. Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT. Confirming that Montolio betrayed us, Dreddit is planning to leave TEST, Fras Siabi is The Mittani's alt, Sort makes over $100/month in RMT and all members of the HBC hate each other. You have become the pubbie, Mittani. Yours is the temple whose technetium-clad tables are at risk of being overthrown, whose seats need mixing. You're the one who fears war. -- Sadleric
|
|
Apocryphal Noise
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 19:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:You guys aren't fighting over anything of value though. There's no sov war going on, no structures being shot. You undock what your SRP will replace for you, if there's any risk you might lose isk, you don't fight. It's not real PVP when it's without consequences. Wormhole space seems to be the last refuge of PVP in eve.
Actually Darkness of Despair has been shooting money moons in Stain. There's definitely something at stake. Then again it's pretty apparent you don't know anything about the nullsec political situation. |
Arronicus
vintas industries Mistakes Were Made.
401
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 20:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:Dash Bishop wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Unless, of course, one of the major coalitions splinters from within, giving the other a clear and decisive advantage.
I have little doubt that if the CFC suddenly went **** up and split into 15 different smaller alliances all bickering with one another, the HBC would jump on that like a fat kid on cake. And vice versa - leadership would be silly not to. Apparently you've been under a rock lately. HBC is falling apart. Montolio (leader of TEST) has stepped down, some of the corps are fighting over who gets what, and the new leadership is making sweeping changes to try and fix it all. If CFC was really interested in beating HBC out of existence, now would be the perfect time to inflict some serious damage. Except they're not. Because, yanno, RMT. Confirming that Montolio betrayed us, Dreddit is planning to leave TEST, Fras Siabi is The Mittani's alt, Sort makes over $100/month in RMT and all members of the HBC hate each other.
Way to leave out that Vile Rat is still alive and pulling the strings behind PL now. |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 20:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:$100/month in RMT Wow, really? That's like, a Friday night at the bar. {insert outrage that people make "real" money off playing a game} |
Silvara Nocturn
Nocturn Industries
19
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 21:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
blue pretzel has my vote. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3263
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 02:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:If you want to know where REAL conflict is happening, just look up recent SBU and TCU kills on eve-kill.net. The war in the east is good, but it's not nearly enough. Though maybe "blue doughnut" should be "blue croissant". I never really suggested it was good enough. It would make sense in a PvP game for everyone to shoot anyone not in their alliance, but sadly the vast majority of players in this game are simply afraid of their own shadow and the thought of a challenge. So they seek help to ensure a victory. The fallout to this thought process is it forces the opposing side to do the same and more. So back and forth it goes with each side trying to gain the upper hand in the situation till you finally have two ultra super blocks with so much territory that they are too fat to fight.
The sad reality is what we have in the west is two major power houses who don't want to grind any structures, because they are not looking at shooting structures on one moon, or one system, or one constellation, hell... not even one region. They would have to grind several regions to achieve that 'victory'. Even if both sides decided to do real combat (sorry, tossing SRP ships at each other in some scheduled Thunderdome does not count) the outcome would be determined after just a few major battles. The rest of the war would be grinding, grinding, grinding.
Then you would see all kinds of corps and alliances assessing the situation and realizing they are on the losing side and immediately bail out or switch sides for 'safety'. Honestly can you blame them though? Why stay and lose everything asset wise fighting a war you can't win? Which by them leaving/switching sides just makes the decision even more obvious for those who were on the fence.
The real enemy. The true face of evil in all of this is power projection. Why should someone living in Period Basis be keeping tabs on activity in Tenal - much less over there fighting? Not saying that is what is happening right now, but my point is it takes literally minutes to cross the map and project any amount of force you want. All this does is cause an arms race. A race that has no end but constant gobbling up of warm bodies in the name of 'defending your territory'. Territory that simply gets larger and larger as you pull in more and more people. The possible enemy sees all this and they follow with the same philosophy.
PRESTO!!!
You now have the stagnant piece of crap null space you see now. It has been the same song and dance for years now. The same recycled faces and names over and over and over. Sure you will see a once in a while change, but it is either short lived or eventually surrenders to the same beast that has been devouring null for years. It just has become more and more obvious because there is far more people playing. Back in ~the day~ vast amounts of space and limited power projection kept these kinds of things in check. Splash in the various bridging methods, jump drives and other various methods of instantly moving from point A to point B and you hit the wall we are now staring at.
You simply can not take a crap without it being reported across the galaxy on how much and what color withing seconds. We have dozens of highly efficient methods of gathering intel created by the players in combination with absolutely easy methods of in game mechanics to know potential enemy movements. This knowledge fosters a tremendous amount of risk aversion because of that. You have capital ships traveling regions in a matter of just a few minutes to be cyno'd in by some NPC alt on top of a couple low sec dreads - just because. Which of course will send a clear message to become even MORE risk averse.
In closing in this TL;DR post; everyone is to blame for the current situation. Only when CCP addresses the issue by them waking up or us forcing them to do something about it, will it ever change. Until then, enjoy the boredom.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Sentamon
795
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 02:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
Pantiy wrote:the whole donut term is well misleading as hell.
You try so hard. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Sentamon
795
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 02:20:00 -
[47] - Quote
You're really well hidden up there. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Ryu Ibarazaki
Brave Newbies Inc.
20
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 02:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:I never really suggested it was good enough. It would make sense in a PvP game for everyone to shoot anyone not in their alliance, but sadly the vast majority of players in this game are simply afraid of their own shadow and the thought of a challenge. So they seek help to ensure a victory. The fallout to this thought process is it forces the opposing side to do the same and more. So back and forth it goes with each side trying to gain the upper hand in the situation till you finally have two ultra super blocks with so much territory that they are too fat to fight. The sad reality is what we have in the west is two major power houses who don't want to grind any structures, because they are not looking at shooting structures on one moon, or one system, or one constellation, hell... not even one region. They would have to grind several regions to achieve that 'victory'. Even if both sides decided to do real combat (sorry, tossing SRP ships at each other in some scheduled Thunderdome does not count) the outcome would be determined after just a few major battles. The rest of the war would be grinding, grinding, grinding. Then you would see all kinds of corps and alliances assessing the situation and realizing they are on the losing side and immediately bail out or switch sides for 'safety'. Honestly can you blame them though? Why stay and lose everything asset wise fighting a war you can't win? Which by them leaving/switching sides just makes the decision even more obvious for those who were on the fence. The real enemy. The true face of evil in all of this is power projection. Why should someone living in Period Basis be keeping tabs on activity in Tenal - much less over there fighting? Not saying that is what is happening right now, but my point is it takes literally minutes to cross the map and project any amount of force you want. All this does is cause an arms race. A race that has no end but constant gobbling up of warm bodies in the name of 'defending your territory'. Territory that simply gets larger and larger as you pull in more and more people. The possible enemy sees all this and they follow with the same philosophy. PRESTO!!! You now have the stagnant piece of crap null space you see now. It has been the same song and dance for years now. The same recycled faces and names over and over and over. Sure you will see a once in a while change, but it is either short lived or eventually surrenders to the same beast that has been devouring null for years. It just has become more and more obvious because there is far more people playing. Back in ~the day~ vast amounts of space and limited power projection kept these kinds of things in check. Splash in the various bridging methods, jump drives and other various methods of instantly moving from point A to point B and you hit the wall we are now staring at. You simply can not take a crap without it being reported across the galaxy on how much and what color withing seconds. We have dozens of highly efficient methods of gathering intel created by the players in combination with absolutely easy methods of in game mechanics to know potential enemy movements. This knowledge fosters a tremendous amount of risk aversion because of that. You have capital ships traveling regions in a matter of just a few minutes to be cyno'd in by some NPC alt on top of a couple low sec dreads - just because. Which of course will send a clear message to become even MORE risk averse. In closing in this TL;DR post; everyone is to blame for the current situation. Only when CCP addresses the issue by them waking up or us forcing them to do something about it, will it ever change. Until then, enjoy the boredom.
Sounds like another vote for 'Blue Cookie' to me, lads!
|
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 02:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Even if both sides decided to do real combat (sorry, tossing SRP ships at each other in some scheduled Thunderdome does not count) Why?
Wormholers bring a fleet of Billion isk T3 ships from the ship replacement program funded by capital escalations. They farm them back in two hours of anomalies, how long is your average call to arms? Do you get to drain the SRP of a Billion isk per CTA on average? (i'm honestly asking, don't know).
Why are Wormholes heralded as the last real PVP in EvE and Null gets bashed? When Wormholes have been nothing but ship replacement program thunderdome. With batphones making sure the participants only get bruised, not crippled or killed.
Someone please explain this to me. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3263
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Even if both sides decided to do real combat (sorry, tossing SRP ships at each other in some scheduled Thunderdome does not count) Why? Wormholers bring a fleet of Billion isk T3 ships from the ship replacement program funded by capital escalations. They farm them back in two hours of anomalies, how long is your average call to arms? Do you get to drain the SRP of a Billion isk per CTA on average? (i'm honestly asking, don't know). Why are Wormholes heralded as the last real PVP in EvE and Null gets bashed? When Wormholes have been nothing but ship replacement program thunderdome. With batphones making sure the participants only get bruised, not crippled or killed. Someone please explain this to me. The one major reason is no cynos and limitation on mass allowed through a wormhole before it collapses. Granted measures are taken to have an advantage before starting a fight, they are no where near out of control like you find in known space.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7204
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
is tossing SRP ships at each other in scheduled fights over timers real pvp please enlighten me ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7205
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:16:00 -
[52] - Quote
let me list ships that aren't covered fully under SRP by my alliance:
haulers/mining ships ratting ships faction battleships, besides machariels flown by characters with specific skills trained (which i have on an alt :smug:) ships that are Generally Recognized as Awful (i.e. phantasms and other crap)
naturally it's only real pvp if we're in spontaneous fights in battle retrievers since everything not covered fully is covered partially unless it's in those first two categories ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote: The one major reason is no cynos and limitation on mass allowed through a wormhole before it collapses. Granted measures are taken to have an advantage before starting a fight, they are no where near out of control like you find in known space.
All that does is enforce the thunderdome by game mechanics limiting the size of the engagement, favoring "billion isk cruisers" over "billion isk capitals". You also have not answered the question.
Why is Wormhole Thunderdome the holy grail of PvP, but Null Thunderdome is a joke that must be frowned upon. Why is it looked upon with respect when a wormhole corp welps a SRP fleet, but Null residents in SRP fleets are called risk averse care bears and looked down upon.
Why must null go grind structures to capture systems they don't want in the first place to appease spectators, but it's OK for Wormhole corps not to POS bash every system they connect to and set up their own towers. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3263
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
Andski wrote:is tossing SRP ships at each other in scheduled fights over timers real pvp please enlighten me The difference is there is a source of income/territory at stake.
Still, structure grinding is boring if no one shows up to fight. So I guess the edge goes to the meaningless WoT style battles in space that is the Thunderdome.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7205
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Still, structure grinding is boring if no one shows up to fight.
is this why you want structure mails removed ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
197
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:29:00 -
[56] - Quote
000Hunter000 wrote:If conflict in 0.0 sec is grinding to a halt, at some point the CCP infiltrators in the big alliances will do their thing and then watch the glory of big alliances going up in flames. It happened before and it will happen again Offcourse the rumours of CCP infiltrators are hard to prove
There were CCP infiltrators. Then we paid them off with RMT MONEYS and **MITTANI CONSPIRACY HERE**. http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages |
Alara IonStorm
4796
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
New CCP Advertisement.
In EVE you can be anything you want. Build financial empires, explore the far reaches of space, make entire worlds kneel before you or rob from those who do. Criminal, Trader, Hero, Leader, in EVE you can choose who you become and shape the Universe to your will...
...Unless your will is shaping it towards Peace. Don't do that.
|
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:32:00 -
[58] - Quote
Andski wrote:let me list ships that aren't covered fully under SRP by my alliance:
haulers/mining ships ratting ships faction battleships, besides machariels flown by characters with specific skills trained (which i have on an alt :smug:) ships that are Generally Recognized as Awful (i.e. phantasms and other crap)
naturally it's only real pvp if we're in spontaneous fights in battle retrievers since everything not covered fully is covered partially unless it's in those first two categories It's only real PvP when you distribute the moon goo to line members based on magical spreadsheets rating contribution to the alliance. Then make them haul and sell it themselves and buy their own ships and haul them to null themselves. Then replace them themselves. Then lose a fight cause a HIC warped off and you lost point on primary, cause he didn't have time to rat that week and can't afford to replace the HIC if he stays another 10 seconds like he's supposed to. Or better yet, you lose a system cause no one wants to log in to fight in a ship that gets blown up all the time while other members take up roles in "safer" ships.
The logic of people who can't understand how or why an organization funded SRP is a good thing. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3263
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:37:00 -
[59] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:Marlona Sky wrote: The one major reason is no cynos and limitation on mass allowed through a wormhole before it collapses. Granted measures are taken to have an advantage before starting a fight, they are no where near out of control like you find in known space.
All that does is enforce the thunderdome by game mechanics limiting the size of the engagement, favoring "billion isk cruisers" over "billion isk capitals". You also have not answered the question. Why is Wormhole Thunderdome the holy grail of PvP, but Null Thunderdome is a joke that must be frowned upon. Why is it looked upon with respect when a wormhole corp welps a SRP fleet, but Null residents in SRP fleets are called risk averse care bears and looked down upon. Why must null go grind structures to capture systems they don't want in the first place to appease spectators, but it's OK for Wormhole corps not to POS bash every system they connect to and set up their own towers. I don't know. I guess some people need to attach the label 'Holy Grail' on to something. Wormholes may not have local (yay!), but that leads to smashing the directional scanner button every two seconds (lame) in another effort to stay safe. With enough people on, you can large bubble any entrances to your system and stick an alt there cloaked with the volume all the way up so when someone jumps in, you hear it. The moment you do everyone gets safe. Another thing is it is common practice to not log in anything as an invader till you have enough people there to do a slaughter. Is that ~good fights~? Of course not.
Maybe it earns that title from people by the simple fact of no cynos. How many fights these days in null and even low sec result in one side starting to lose a sub cap fight and suddely...
C Y N O
Enter on the field, well... anything. Anything from more sub capital ships from a titan bridge, to carriers, to dreads, to super carriers and even titans to body slam onto the "I Win!" button.
Sure it can lead to a massive battle where it makes the news and thousands of people are involved, but how often does that really happen? Once a year?, maybe? Bottom line is there is people who will easily give up on the an annual large battle to have dozens and dozens (even more) good small to medium scale battles without the holy grail of power projection. The cyno.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3263
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
Andski wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Still, structure grinding is boring if no one shows up to fight. is this why you want structure mails removed You see two feet in front of you. I see for miles.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4431
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:40:00 -
[61] - Quote
Those dozens of people should probably not be in nullsec, then, if they're completely incapable of having small and medium scale fights on a regular basis.
Because I certainly don't have a problem with it and neither do thousands of other people. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Andracin
Sickology
72
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
Honestly I think human nature is more to blame than anything for the "big blue donut". If your big enough to take the space and fight harder than the guy who had it before you its nautral that once you own it you want to reap its benefits. Continued fighting other than for a break in boredum interups people running annoms and plexes and looses isk rather than gain it. Face it most people go to null seeking isk not epic fights. I started out in 0.0 in the epic failure that was FREGE back when everyone practically stopped fighting to stare when a carrier would land on grid because not very many people would even commit a capital unless victory was certain...even back then we were in a Mutal Aid in Defense (MAD) pact with most of the left half of the donut so I don't buy the story that supers made the donut happen either. Even if null was given unlimited industrial slots in stations, mega veldspar and scordite astroids, agents in null stations, easier ways to take sov than massive grinds or any of the other "fixes" ive seen on the forums I don't think the donut would change. I think we are at a point where most alliances are going to failscade internally long before external agression pushes them out of their sov. Its human nature to not risk what you have to get something that is not any better than than what you have already and have to spend time and money to get. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7205
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:44:00 -
[63] - Quote
i, for one, would rather sit in some hostile wormhole for weeks sneaking caps in and hunting their cap pilots when they're in more vulnerable ships (assuming that the residents are frozen in the past and don't have dedicated alts logged off in the caps)
indeed, sitting around cloaked is super fun ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7205
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:You see two feet in front of you. I see for miles.
i realize that the height of eve online for you is roaming endlessly to update some intel sheet with data on friendly structures and towers but honestly a lot of us just find that boring ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Grayson Cole
R.A.V.E.N.
4
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:54:00 -
[65] - Quote
Andski wrote:[...but honestly a lot of us just find that boring
It's far more entertaining to be one of the Goon spin doctors who trolls the forums relentlessly. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3263
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
Andracin wrote:Honestly I think human nature is more to blame than anything for the "big blue donut". If your big enough to take the space and fight harder than the guy who had it before you its nautral that once you own it you want to reap its benefits. Continued fighting other than for a break in boredum interups people running annoms and plexes and looses isk rather than gain it. Face it most people go to null seeking isk not epic fights. I started out in 0.0 in the epic failure that was FREGE back when everyone practically stopped fighting to stare when a carrier would land on grid because not very many people would even commit a capital unless victory was certain...even back then we were in a Mutal Aid in Defense (MAD) pact with most of the left half of the donut so I don't buy the story that supers made the donut happen either. Even if null was given unlimited industrial slots in stations, mega veldspar and scordite astroids, agents in null stations, easier ways to take sov than massive grinds or any of the other "fixes" ive seen on the forums I don't think the donut would change. I think we are at a point where most alliances are going to failscade internally long before external agression pushes them out of their sov. Its human nature to not risk what you have to get something that is not any better than than what you have already and have to spend time and money to get. Don't forget null before the anomaly nerf. You know where every system can, and would be, upgraded to be the same ISK fountain as any other system in null. The only difference was where your system was, strategically speaking and if the system has some nice moons. Null was saturated with bears farming nonstop. No one was fighting then. So CCP changed it to make some systems more valuable to give a reason to fight. Again, no one fought.
Maybe a vast majority of players are simply good people and violence is not in them.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 03:59:00 -
[67] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote: I don't know. I guess some people need to attach the label 'Holy Grail' on to something. Wormholes may not have local (yay!), but that leads to smashing the directional scanner button every two seconds (lame) in another effort to stay safe. With enough people on, you can large bubble any entrances to your system and stick an alt there cloaked with the volume all the way up so when someone jumps in, you hear it. The moment you do everyone gets safe. Another thing is it is common practice to not log in anything as an invader till you have enough people there to do a slaughter. Is that ~good fights~? Of course not.
Maybe it earns that title from people by the simple fact of no cynos. How many fights these days in null and even low sec result in one side starting to lose a sub cap fight and suddely...
C Y N O
Enter on the field, well... anything. Anything from more sub capital ships from a titan bridge, to carriers, to dreads, to super carriers and even titans to body slam onto the "I Win!" button.
Sure it can lead to a massive battle where it makes the news and thousands of people are involved, but how often does that really happen? Once a year?, maybe? Bottom line is there is people who will easily give up on the an annual large battle to have dozens and dozens (even more) good small to medium scale battles without the holy grail of power projection. The cyno.
I'm still on the topic of what the OP said.
Isayeki Ohaya wrote: You guys aren't fighting over anything of value though. There's no sov war going on, no structures being shot. You undock what your SRP will replace for you, if there's any risk you might lose isk, you don't fight. It's not real PVP when it's without consequences.
Wormhole space seems to be the last refuge of PVP in eve.
But there are no consequences there either. It's just expendable ships exploding in an attempt to have fun. Just like everywhere else in EvE. With no threat to income sources beyond some ratting boats of line members getting blown up.
According to lots of people, that's not PvP. Apparently it's only a Player vs Player interaction when a CSAA with a titan blows up or a Tech moon changes hands. And I would dare say just one would be deemed as "acceptable losses".
I'm trying to understand that sentiment. In a game where every single ship that blows up, quite literally affects the game play experience of a dozen people. From mining to industry to logistics to market warfare to whatever the fight may have been. Or whomever the gun looted off the wreck shot the week after.
The only people that seem to meet this narrow definition of PvP and not being risk averse are the month old noobs. With 10 mil isk in their wallet, that refit their level 3 mission battlecruiser for PvP and go looking for a fight outside High Sec. Knowing if they die, they lose their source of income. But fixing even that is a plex away from being a non issue. Hey, today I'll get more isk and play eve instead of getting a case of beer. Nope, no risk there either.
So what is Risk? When does the chance of losing what you are putting on the line, stop being risk and become a calculated expense for having fun? Furthermore, why does it matter? |
Ra'Shyne Viper
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
63
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 05:06:00 -
[68] - Quote
pvp stands for Player vs Player, i had no idea the hi-sec and WH-space people were this stupid. DUST 514 player
Ingame name: Vin Vicious |
Sentamon
795
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 05:36:00 -
[69] - Quote
Ra'Shyne Viper wrote:pvp stands for Player vs Player, i had no idea the hi-sec and WH-space people were this stupid.
I know right?
They would be more like nullbears and assure only player vs structure. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
595
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 05:55:00 -
[70] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote: Why is that an acceptable practice in W-Space, but not in Null? Why do they have to go shoot buildings for days under TiDi to please you?
i dunno. maybe because 0.0 is trademark of CCP? Maybe 0.0 is like endgame in Eve Online? Maybe because children games are good when children play it and not when amateur play it? |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4433
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 06:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Georgina Parmala wrote: Why is that an acceptable practice in W-Space, but not in Null? Why do they have to go shoot buildings for days under TiDi to please you?
i dunno. maybe because 0.0 is trademark of CCP? Maybe 0.0 is like endgame in Eve Online? Maybe because children games are good when children play it and not when amateur play it? So what does any of that have to do with... anything? Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Carrelle Rouppon
Air Red Alliance
78
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 07:31:00 -
[72] - Quote
*cough* SOLAR vs N3 *cough*
This is currently the only war. Without operations like mine it would be impossible for certain Alliances to conduct a respectable war. There are three basic types of arms deal: white, being legal, black, being illegal, and my personal favorite, gray. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8318
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 07:36:00 -
[73] - Quote
Carrelle Rouppon wrote:*cough* SOLAR vs N3 *cough*
This is currently the only war.
Er, no it isn't Vote for Malcanis for CSM8: Read about my platform here
Please endorse my candidacy here |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8318
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 07:37:00 -
[74] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Georgina Parmala wrote: Why is that an acceptable practice in W-Space, but not in Null? Why do they have to go shoot buildings for days under TiDi to please you?
i dunno. maybe because 0.0 is trademark of CCP? Maybe 0.0 is like endgame in Eve Online? Maybe because children games are good when children play it and not when amateur play it?
So not shooting structures is "amateur play"?
That's an interesting assertion. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8: Read about my platform here
Please endorse my candidacy here |
Carrelle Rouppon
Air Red Alliance
78
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 07:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Carrelle Rouppon wrote:*cough* SOLAR vs N3 *cough*
This is currently the only war. Er, no it isn't
Sure it is, the rest of null-sec is HBC and/or CFC. Without operations like mine it would be impossible for certain Alliances to conduct a respectable war. There are three basic types of arms deal: white, being legal, black, being illegal, and my personal favorite, gray. |
Kamden Line
Serenity Prime Kraken.
144
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 07:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
You're right. Why don't two monolithic entities engage in a needlessly long (sov-grinding all those regions), pointless (both coalitions already have power, money, and influence) for zero gain and a very high likely hood of failscading into nothinginess?
Man, it's almost like players make their own content that doesn't suck, unlike sov grinding. Until CCP changes the sov system and/or the HBC failscades, lets stop rehashing the same old tired riverini meme. It wasn't insightful or funny then and it still isn't insightful or funny now. |
Alara IonStorm
4797
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 07:52:00 -
[77] - Quote
Carrelle Rouppon wrote:*cough* SOLAR vs N3 *cough*
This is currently the only war. Warfare in Null Space has been so prevalent of late. Just when you think they've stopped the killing a new front opens up and more innocent people living and working on frontier Starbases are killed or displaced. Good folks trying to build a life, going where the jobs are, mining moons and Planets, building ships, hard work to feed their families then the planets are cut off, soon to be invaded, their Starbases destroyed without a thought.
Why can't people keep behind their damn own boarders. Not like there isn't enough to go around, keeping those bases fueled and profits coming in. Instead these Nations are forced to waste their capital on massive military stockpiles and so called super ships as a deterrent just to find some basic level of stability.
Such a sad situation for all involved. Just horrible. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8318
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 07:54:00 -
[78] - Quote
Carrelle Rouppon wrote:Malcanis wrote:Carrelle Rouppon wrote:*cough* SOLAR vs N3 *cough*
This is currently the only war. Er, no it isn't Sure it is, the rest of null-sec is HBC and/or CFC.
I'm sorry that you only get your information from EN24, but there has been a largely unreported but nevertheless active war in and around Stain for quite a while now. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8: Read about my platform here
Please endorse my candidacy here |
Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
718
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 08:04:00 -
[79] - Quote
I think everyone seems to be missing the point or in a few cases interpreting the Blue Donut as to be literally a donut with a blue hue.
The Blue Donut is a metaphor for alliances who have good standings with other alliances, whom also have good standings with their neighbors, whom also have good standings with their neighbors, so on and so forth which creates a ring. One alliance on one side of the galaxy may not necessarily be on good standings with another on the other side of the galaxy, but through a friend of a friend of a friend they really are.
Hence the term Blue Donut. Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5739
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 08:11:00 -
[80] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:I think everyone seems to be missing the point or in a few cases interpreting the Blue Donut as to be literally a donut with a blue hue.
The Blue Donut is a metaphor for alliances who have good standings with other alliances, whom also have good standings with their neighbors, whom also have good standings with their neighbors, so on and so forth which creates a ring. One alliance on one side of the galaxy may not necessarily be on good standings with another on the other side of the galaxy, but through a friend of a friend of a friend they really are.
Hence the term Blue Donut.
That doesn't exist. |
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Degren
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2364
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 09:13:00 -
[81] - Quote
Come on thats at least 1/20 Hello, hello again. |
Anunzi
High House Of Shadows Tribal Band
60
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 10:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
Isayeki Ohaya wrote:As we all know, there is no real PVP going on in null. However, a donut seems to imply there is an area in the middle where there is conflict, or real PVP, or something going on. However, the middle is hisec, which is even more blue than null. I propose the term "Blue Cookie" to reflect how essentially all of Eve is blue to each other. This accurately reflects how there is no real PVP anymore, and how everyone gets a cookie for playing in the form or SRP from their moon goo.
I actually live in null on all my main characters, we get fights everyday, almost every hour. To me the term is amusing as it has no resemblance to what I see in my day to day EvEings.
Keep on drinking Riverinis kool aid though, donGÇÖt let facts get in the way of his vision.
Malcanis for CSM8, Its about damn time.
A vote for Malcanis is a vote for bacon! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8319
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 11:53:00 -
[83] - Quote
Carrelle Rouppon wrote:Malcanis wrote:Carrelle Rouppon wrote:*cough* SOLAR vs N3 *cough*
This is currently the only war. Er, no it isn't Sure it is, the rest of null-sec is HBC and/or CFC.
2 entities who are, er.... not blue to each other? Vote for Malcanis for CSM8: Read about my platform here
Please endorse my candidacy here |
Anunzi
High House Of Shadows Tribal Band
65
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 12:33:00 -
[84] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Carrelle Rouppon wrote:Malcanis wrote:Carrelle Rouppon wrote:*cough* SOLAR vs N3 *cough*
This is currently the only war. Er, no it isn't Sure it is, the rest of null-sec is HBC and/or CFC. 2 entities who are, er.... not blue to each other?
Yeah, thatGÇÖs just one of those inconvenient facts that the tinfoil brigade here like to ignore.
:popcorn:
Malcanis for CSM8, Its about damn time.
A vote for Malcanis is a vote for bacon! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1524
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 12:41:00 -
[85] - Quote
Anunzi wrote:Malcanis wrote:Carrelle Rouppon wrote:Malcanis wrote:Carrelle Rouppon wrote:*cough* SOLAR vs N3 *cough*
This is currently the only war. Er, no it isn't Sure it is, the rest of null-sec is HBC and/or CFC. 2 entities who are, er.... not blue to each other? Yeah, thatGÇÖs just one of those inconvenient facts that the tinfoil brigade here like to ignore. :popcorn:
lol, we can't let FACTS get in the way of good tinfoil hattery. I don't which is why every time I'm in Querious or Delve and I see goons in local, I just keep ratting because, Blue Donut will save me. The forums said so.
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Random Majere
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
64
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 13:58:00 -
[86] - Quote
The blue donut shows how good some people in this game are at diplomacy. If we ever make 1st contact with an alien race (for real!), we could have The Mittani as our head representative. Surely, is diplomatic talents would lead into a peaceful relation with said aliens. This would help us become blue to them (if it happens). |
Kinis Deren
EVE University Ivy League
158
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 14:43:00 -
[87] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:The blue donut shows how good some people in this game are at diplomacy. If we ever make 1st contact with an alien race (for real!), we could have The Mittani as our head representative. Surely, is diplomatic talents would lead into a peaceful relation with said aliens. This would help us become blue to them (if it happens).
If that ever happened he'd need to keep away from any form of intoxicating substance to keep his inner derplord at bay.
OP, yah "Blue Donut" is a little misleading since a quick look at this reveals a small bite removed in the easterly direction.
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March rabbit
No Name No Pain
595
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 14:47:00 -
[88] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:The blue donut shows how good some people in this game are at diplomacy. If we ever make 1st contact with an alien race (for real!), we could have The Mittani as our head representative. Surely, is diplomatic talents would lead into a peaceful relation with said aliens. This would help us become blue to them (if it happens). yea, last FanFest have shown precisely Mittani's diplomatic skills |
Kinis Deren
EVE University Ivy League
158
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 14:54:00 -
[89] - Quote
Also, just looking at the front page of DOTLAN, clicking on a few of the sov null regions and selecting sov changes, more often not, returns the following result;
Quote:No sovereignty changes occured in March 2013
That's not a healthy result for a game, but pretty cosy for the sitting tenants ofcourse |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
290
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 15:02:00 -
[90] - Quote
Anunzi wrote:Malcanis wrote:Carrelle Rouppon wrote:Malcanis wrote:Carrelle Rouppon wrote:*cough* SOLAR vs N3 *cough*
This is currently the only war. Er, no it isn't Sure it is, the rest of null-sec is HBC and/or CFC. 2 entities who are, er.... not blue to each other? Yeah, thatGÇÖs just one of those inconvenient facts that the tinfoil brigade here like to ignore. :popcorn:
I can't find any updates concerning this, but what side is taking over who's sov? I mean it is a sov war right? Or just not allies? "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
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Dash Bishop
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
28
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 15:06:00 -
[91] - Quote
Serious question. No trolling.
Why is everyone so enamored with what goes on in null sec?
It seems like every other post on the forum is about RMT, blue doughnuts, who's fighting who, who isn't fighting who, drama played out on internal forums, blogs from 3rd party sources. What is the obsession with null? As far as I can tell, this is supposed to be the "end game" of EVE. At least it was intended that way, to be the pinnacle of what this game is about. Instead it all reads like a cheap dime store novel.
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Alara IonStorm
4799
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 15:07:00 -
[92] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Also, just looking at the front page of DOTLAN, clicking on a few of the sov null regions and selecting sov changes, more often not, returns the following result; Quote:No sovereignty changes occured in March 2013 That's not a healthy result for a game, but pretty cosy for the sitting tenants ofcourse http://evemaps.dotlan.net/sovereignty |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1150
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 15:12:00 -
[93] - Quote
5 pages blah blah
what I think: there's plenty of skirmishes and pvp in null, but the big conflicts over space have dried up because of the massive coalitions and unwillingness to ~risk~ things
imo wormholes, or at least the way they were a month or two ago before I took a Real LifeGäó break, were much more interesting on that front |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1529
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 15:13:00 -
[94] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Also, just looking at the front page of DOTLAN, clicking on a few of the sov null regions and selecting sov changes, more often not, returns the following result; Quote:No sovereignty changes occured in March 2013 That's not a healthy result for a game, but pretty cosy for the sitting tenants ofcourse
In order to make the conclusions you are jumping to, you'd have to have information that this is somehow new.
It isn't.
Null sec has gone through stages of stability and instability the entire time EVE has existed. Look back at the old Northern Coalition. Look at the pre-drone poo nerf Drone Regions etc etc.
Null Sec has been the same regardless of who has owned whatever parts of it, and was the same even when the SOV system was totally different. What's different now is that 2 huge pwoer bocls are at least sparring with each other, killing ships and driving the EVE online market to replace what is being destroyed.
The most ironic thing is that the high sec carebears (mining and building ships and trading in LP for stuff pvpr's need) laughing the most about blue donuts are the ones making all the "Blue Dough" being generated by Goons and TEST shooting at each other. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
290
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 15:16:00 -
[95] - Quote
Jenn don't forget the FW and RvB LP farms too. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 16:53:00 -
[96] - Quote
Dash Bishop wrote:Serious question. No trolling.
Why is everyone so enamored with what goes on in null sec?
It seems like every other post on the forum is about RMT, blue doughnuts, who's fighting who, who isn't fighting who, drama played out on internal forums, blogs from 3rd party sources. What is the obsession with null? As far as I can tell, this is supposed to be the "end game" of EVE. At least it was intended that way, to be the pinnacle of what this game is about. Instead it all reads like a cheap dime store novel.
The term "End Game" implies some pinnacle of progression, that every player should aspire to become involved in.
That's not what Null is. That's not how eve works. It's a matter of scope. That's where the large organizations forge their own world to play in as they see fit. It's the place for massive fleets that make the server cry tears of lag and a vast political scene. Smaller organizations hide and thrive in other parts of space, having their own "end game" that in no way involves null.
If you want to call it "End Game" content then CFC/HBC has "finished" the game. Just like large, cutting edge organizations in every other MMO. Who go into farm mode, once they have beaten the available content. Then screw around on main-funded alts and wait for the release of the next expansion.
Why is any of this surprising to so many people? |
Dash Bishop
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
28
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 17:10:00 -
[97] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:If you want to call it "End Game" content then CFC/HBC has "finished" the game. Just like large, cutting edge organizations in every other MMO. Who go into farm mode, once they have beaten the available content. Then screw around on main-funded alts and wait for the release of the next expansion.
That pretty much sums it up. Caldari Militia-áGÿ£G£½GÿP |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7213
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 17:49:00 -
[98] - Quote
The funny thing is that we've been more active lately than in the past. The constant moon/sov wars in 2012 (Branch sov war, Branch/Venal moon war, Tenal sov war, Delve war, another Venal moon war, Tribute war) only bred burnout. After the liberation of Tribute and Vale, the vast majority of the CFC was content to do sub-bloc level deployments to different parts of the map. The huge fights that make the news are great to read about, but not that fun to engage in once TiDi kicks in, sadly. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
292
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:29:00 -
[99] - Quote
There is this place called lowsec.
It's where people who don't suck **** at this game live.
try it sometime. |
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
595
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:52:00 -
[100] - Quote
Chandaris wrote:There is this place called lowsec.
It's where people who don't suck **** at this game live.
try it sometime. after 1 month of visiting low-sec i still don't see any reasons to actually LIVE there. Visit it for pew-pew is Ok. Trading? Maybe too. But living there? Why? What for? Still isn't clear for me.... |
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