Have you ever been in a large scale fleet engagement?

A large fleet would have plenty of time to kill the JF. Like I said, a single fleet of tornadoes could alpha a JF three times over. Killing a JF full of "important stuff for null sec life" certainly would be worth it to a competing alliance, or just an alliance looking for ***** and giggles.

The poster did. The poster raised the issue of what will happen to jump capable ships that are currently in low sec? Will they be moved to null, and likely in extreme danger, or will they be forever trapped in some low sec system.

You constantly dodge on this one and insult like brat.

Grwo up. FFS.



But what about the ships already there? An alliance has to evac, they move to nearby low sec. With dreadnoughts, carriers, supers, everything....are they trapped, are they given one free jump out? What? Stop insulting and grow up child.

It still isn't. These changes would force indy on the current incumbents of sov, who have by their actions shown they are not up for it, nor to it. There will be blood in the water as they are now faced with managing their logistics in the face of heightened threats.

As for being a worm. All these arguments have not in any way diminished the validity of my suggestion. They have merely shown me how terrified the current nulsec players are of having to support themselves out there. I can see more wriggling than have engaged in myself.

Question for you. Despite knowing what this thread is actually about, AKA nerf everything with a jump drive.... Did you get hotdrop while you were rattting in low sec?

Did you also think about the cost of lowsec and null minerals will also increase with this change?

Did you also think about the smaller alliance? (based on the arguments going on, I have already established that as a no.)

Do you fly a jump freighter? If not, what makes you think you have greater knowledge on how logistics work then everyone else here?

Finally and not least, why do you keep ignore my post? Are my arguments that strong? And have you noticed you are the only one fighting for this idea?

So you agree this will lead to Increased opportunities for PvP? Glad you're onboard.

I don't dodge anything, just want to see how fixated you become on a point you believe is unassailable. This point is so trivial, but it would appear triviality is all you have to offer to this thread.

The problem of ships that can no longer function due to their location can be handled in a number of ways, not limited to your suggestion of a free jump out

Moved to the nearest nulsec Moved to the region held by their alliance. If they are a losec corp then moved to the closest nulsec containing an NPC station. Trivial.

It would be no longer possible to use alts in NPC corps to do this job, as they would be defenceless against attacks from griefers and losec pirates. Sov could opt to use Frog or other services to move their stuff out of empire, but that will hurt drastically the profitability of such a move.

As for being a worm. All these arguments have not in any way diminished the validity of my suggestion.

I don't dodge anything, just want to see how fixated you become on a point you believe is unassailable. This point is so trivial, but it would appear triviality is all you have to offer to this thread.

The problem of ships that can no longer function due to their location can be handled in a number of ways, not limited to your suggestion of a free jump out. Moved to the nearest nulsec. Moved to the region held by their alliance. If they are a losec corp then moved to the closest nulsec containing an NPC station. Trivial.

No it wont. Because a 150 tornadoes (or any tier 3 BC) can kill a JF nobody is going to take a JF into low sec. Hence it simply wont happen.

Jump out where? If they live in low sec, surrounding null sec might be hostile.

Trivial. Sure, until you implement it and hundreds or more players/characters have ships trapped where they can't do much with them.

Keeping in mind that much of the stuff in null comes from high sec. Nobody is going to be dumb and move a JF/freighter through low sec with the existing mechanics. Things like jump fuel and liquid ozone could become very rare in NPC stations.

This is nonsense. There is no reason why in high sec an NPC corp hauler alt would not work thus side-stepping war decs. Further, said NPC alt can join any fleet he is invited too, so again no reason not to use an alt in an NPC corp.

I don't see why any of the above paragraph has to obtain based on the changes you are suggesting.

I'm still surprised he can't see that he the only one that supports this horrible idea...

That's the first thing you've gotten right (If we don't count direct quotations) in this entire topic.
Your suggestion had no validity to begin with, and as such no argument can diminish that.

For my part, the offer made here still stand: When you give an argument for your idea, with either evidence or sound reasoning to support it, and that idea is in line with your stated goal, I'll be interested in giving it feedback. I'm certain that's a sentiment shared by others.
Until then ...

And I might add these would be fine for dreads and carriers, but what about super caps. They can't dock. Is CCP going to move the super caps and their POS'? What about POS fuel, CCP going to make sure they have enough in system till they get stuff sorted?

Are you now ignoring my posts? Tit-for-tat is a bit young for this discussion.

Any one of the current alliances could pretty readily put a mining fleet together. If not from people already in the alliance, then from their alts who're mainly in the mission and industry fields in hisec.

I'm not ignoring your post mate, which is why I stated, through the life of this thread, you are the ONLY ONE that is supporting this idea. You first start the thread off with no support for your idea, then when people start out pointing out all the bad things with your suggestion, you argue with them. Read your own thread mate...You are the only one that been arguing FOR this idea.

I doubt I qualify as one of your "mates".

As for being the only one for this idea: Gallileo was the only one arguing that the world is round. That didn't make him wrong.

Which says volumes about those who howl over the very thought of JFs having more problems.

That said, I like how you totally ignored the rest of my post.

capships have their uses in lowsec.

Rorqual - do I really need to explain this one? Either way, I've seen a fair few of these in deep low doing their thing...

Carrier - Triage / POS repair ... though they can throw down DPS pretty well too.
Dread - anti-triage carrier / POS

yeah, you get people hotdropping you from time to time; but is this any different than getting caught as a gatecamper with a support fleet jumping through right after you take the bait?

Well, to be truthful, you would have to admit that Galileo had the facts backing him up, while thus far you have the facts against you.
And to be honest, if you think Galileo was arguing that the world was round, and people didn't believe him, you're pretty dumb. He argued that Earth wasn't the centre of all things (Heliocentrism instead of Geocentrism), and the Catholic church silenced him.
It is this young man you want if you want a serious discussion whether the world is round or not (An even then, he was probably not the first to say the Earth is round).

Ahhh... a simple mix-up makes me stupid? Quality comment.

Yeah he was the only one championing heliocentrism, still backing my main point which is: just because it's only one man supporting an idea doesn't make it wrong.

No, your behaviour through the thread makes you stupid.


He was not the only one, and it does back your point that being alone isn't being wrong - it depends on the facts.
The facts are against you, however, so that's not your issue.

Smartarse one-liners as a substitute for reason merely indicates your level of intelligence is suspect. Do please contribute something a bit more substantial.

Still smelling the fear, people.

"That which can be proposed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

So to reiterate, present your evidence and argument, and we'll respond to it.

Many people have already responded; mostly witless remarks. Quoting wisdom to evade debate. Hardly contributive.

Still: as it is (someone else's) wisdom I shall gather the necessary and present it in due course.