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Mikhael Taron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2013.03.29 10:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
As has been stated ad nauseum: SOV still relies heavily on hisec for its supplies. By using JFs from Jita they are able to resupply quickly their needs.
If jump drives no longer work outside of nulsec, any empire-sourced materials would need to be freighted to nulsec before jumping to sov space. This journey would give ample opportunity for strikes on the freighters.
It would be no longer possible to use alts in NPC corps to do this job, as they would be defenceless against attacks from griefers and losec pirates. Sov could opt to use Frog or other services to move their stuff out of empire, but that will hurt drastically the profitability of such a move.
The transport alts could form a corporation with a combat wing for escort. This corporation would almost certainly be 'discovered' and wardecked. I'm sure empire corporations would appear, dedicated to attacking sov-aligned corporations on 'their patch'. Sov would need to respond by coming into empire space, if they wished to retain the empire-sov caravan.
The effect on the empire economy might be less buyers for the market goods as the sov alliances move more to making their own stuff. It would make more targets available in nulsec; manufacturing assets would become more valuable. The attitudes of sov posters in the forums implies this is unlikely, however. Loss of face, and all that. "Driven out of empire space?"
So it's more likely there will be increased action defending caravans, and this would provide new opportunities for manufacturers.
In short: this simple change to the game can facilitate PvP as well as instigating warfare between the empire and sov alliances. You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
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Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
429
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Posted - 2013.03.29 12:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Do to encourage industry in null, you want to screw up supply lines to high and low sec? You don't think this would be more likely to drive people back to highsec where production is much easier and safer?
Making null more profitable for industry than highsec would achieve your goal much better. Screwing the supply lines would not. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Mike Whiite
Cupid Stunts. Casoff
166
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Posted - 2013.03.29 12:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
increased oppertunities for PvP are created when it get's more intresting to do stuff not less.
Faction War revamp, has it's troubles but since there is money to be made in FW the population in low sec has been exploding, and that increases the oppertunities for PvP.
Not turning travel to a monthly allinace blob that travels to low.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
918
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Posted - 2013.03.29 12:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote: Making null more profitable for industry than highsec would achieve your goal much better. Screwing the supply lines would not.
Yeah, then ppl unsubs their industrial alts and everybody gets to use meta 4 mods. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
13
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
ITT: Increased opportunities to gank freighters without getting CONCORDed, because OP doesn't have enough friends to coordinate a highsec suicide gank. |
Mikhael Taron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.03.29 14:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Screwing up supply lines to high and lowsec? People can still freight stuff between these zones. How does no JD affect that, other than increase the risk?
Fail wrote: TT: Increased opportunities to gank freighters without getting CONCORDed, because OP doesn't have enough friends to coordinate a highsec suicide gank.
OP is a hauler; not into ganking in a badger. Fail attempt at misinterpreting what I mean.
confused wrote:Not turning travel to a monthly allinace blob that travels to low. Would need to travel the whole way between high and null if wishing to maintain complete cover for the freighters. Exposed to ganking by the empire corps.
No wonder there's a whiff of fear in these responses. I must be onto something.
You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
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Pan Dora
Stardust Enterprises
9
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Posted - 2013.03.29 14:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote: Making null more profitable for industry than highsec would achieve your goal much better. Screwing the supply lines would not.
Yeah, then ppl unsubs their industrial alts and everybody gets to use meta 4 mods.
Rather people moving their industrial alts to null.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
35
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Posted - 2013.03.29 14:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mikhael Taron wrote:As has been stated ad nauseum: SOV still relies heavily on hisec for its supplies. By using JFs from Jita they are able to resupply quickly their needs.
If jump drives no longer work outside of nulsec, any empire-sourced materials would need to be freighted to nulsec before jumping to sov space. This journey would give ample opportunity for strikes on the freighters.
It would be no longer possible to use alts in NPC corps to do this job, as they would be defenceless against attacks from griefers and losec pirates. Sov could opt to use Frog or other services to move their stuff out of empire, but that will hurt drastically the profitability of such a move.
Why not? Null corps could still use NPC alts, it would be harder, but it could be done.
Quote:The transport alts could form a corporation with a combat wing for escort. This corporation would almost certainly be 'discovered' and wardecked. I'm sure empire corporations would appear, dedicated to attacking sov-aligned corporations on 'their patch'. Sov would need to respond by coming into empire space, if they wished to retain the empire-sov caravan.
Again, why? I don't see it. You could use a NPC alt, put him in fleet. Tell everyone not to shoot so-and-so, clear the low sec gate, JF jumps in and then Jumps several AU into "safe" null sec space.
Quote:The effect on the empire economy might be less buyers for the market goods as the sov alliances move more to making their own stuff. It would make more targets available in nulsec; manufacturing assets would become more valuable. The attitudes of sov posters in the forums implies this is unlikely, however. Loss of face, and all that. "Driven out of empire space?"
You will not get more null sec industry this way. The best way to get more null sec industry is to create incentives for null sec industry, not attempt to put in disincentives for high sec industry via nerfing logistics, because players are going to be very creative at minimizing risk, especially with an 8 billion isk JF.
Quote:So it's more likely there will be increased action defending caravans, and this would provide new opportunities for manufacturers.
Most likely result, you'll get null sec blocks setting up 100+ man anti-camps in low sec entry points, or for groups like Goons no change at all given they often perma-camp the EC-/Torrinos gate already.
Quote:In short: this simple change to the game can facilitate PvP as well as instigating warfare between the empire and sov alliances.
1. There is no existing mechanic for a war between the high sec empires and null sec. 2. Economic PVP has been won hands down by high sec. 3. Making it harder to use high sec's awesome economic capabilities is the wrong way to go. 4. Make the economic capabilities of null sec more viable. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
14
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Posted - 2013.03.29 15:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mikhael Taron wrote: OP is a hauler; not into ganking in a badger. Fail attempt at misinterpreting what I mean.
Everyone here knows exactly what you mean, Alty McAlterton. Removing the ability for JFs to jump from hisec directly to null will simply result in caravans of standard frighters and scores of gatecamps by nullsec 'pirates' protecting their new trade routes. It will not encourage industry in null and low. It will instead inconvenience everyone else all the way down to the null alliances' chosen jump points.
Then again, operating a Badger in highsec doesn't give one much perspective on what happens anywhere else, does it? |
Mikhael Taron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.03.29 15:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:Why not? Null corps could still use NPC alts, it would be harder, but it could be done. Instead of being able to jump right out of hisec the freighter would need to make the journey through the gates to get to nulsec. Saying it would be harder is to fail to grasp the logistical nightmare ahead of the freighter.
Quote:Again, why? I don't see it. You could use a NPC alt, put him in fleet. Tell everyone not to shoot so-and-so, clear the low sec gate, JF jumps in and then Jumps several AU into "safe" null sec space. You appear to fail to understand written English; the freighter needs to move out of hisec. Fleets do not protect the freighter unless they are of the same corp, so that changes nothing.
Quote:You will not get more null sec industry this way. If you bother to read the title of this topic it isn't about promoting nulsec industry.
Quote: Most likely result, you'll get null sec blocks setting up 100+ man anti-camps in low sec entry points, or for groups like Goons no change at all given they often perma-camp the EC-/Torrinos gate already.
How is that helping the freighter in its journey through hisec? Your attempt to confuse the topic being discussed has failed.
Quote: 1. There is no existing mechanic for a war between the high sec empires and null sec. 2. Economic PVP has been won hands down by high sec. 3. Making it harder to use high sec's awesome economic capabilities is the wrong way to go. 4. Make the economic capabilities of null sec more viable.
- Any alliance can wardec any alliance so this assertion is false.
- There was never any competition between sov and empire markets so this is also false.
- This is promoting PvP between empire and sov so I think it's most certainly the way to go.
- They are already viable. Players in sov would rather shoot stuff than create it. Fine! The price you pay is the empire alliances waiting to pick you off when you come into their space. Similar to how sov alliances attack anyone coming into their space.
You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
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Shahai Shintaro
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
13
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Posted - 2013.03.29 15:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
This would just serve to eliminate most travel of freighters into null. There is no way in hell you can convince me to fly a freighter outside of high sec and I doubt frog would do it either so you just cut off null sec. Also, I think you forgot the unintended consequence of not allowing capitals in low sec. If jump freighters can't jump, why can caps? |
Jacid
Sacrificial Lambs The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19
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Posted - 2013.03.29 16:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think the poster has identified some problems facing eve however i don't think the ability of one sov null alliance to strike at another is the problem. Null industry is pointless atm, null sec only exporting PI, high end minerals and moon goos. If you want to solve the issue with null industry the only solution is to make finished products that can only be built in null either through large volume inputs only produced in null making it cost prohibitive to move the raw materials to HS or sov mechanics limiting the building of certain items to sov owned space like supercap construction. Neither solution would harm high sec industry and would add to the overall game.
My 2 Cents |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1237
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Posted - 2013.03.29 16:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mikhael Taron wrote: No wonder there's a whiff of fear in these responses. I must be onto something.
That's not fear, that's disbelief that anyone can be this clueless. Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. Twitter --á@DeVeldrin |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1804
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 16:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
LOL
You also forget that carriers, dreads and supercaps all use jump drives too, but cannot use gates. Or were you intending that they just all get evicted from lowsec to some random null system and never go back?
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
41
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Posted - 2013.03.29 16:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
There's two issues, that I see myself. The distance of a single jump, that makes it pointless to hold small area of , null space, and the overall inefficiency of industry in null.I have no idea, what part of a brain CCP used to put intentionally prohibitive coefficients to POS refining and a |
Neal Altol
desolate fools
2
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
[quote=Mikhael Taron]Quote:Any alliance can wardec any alliance so this assertion is false.
For high sec it would be in an npc corp there it will be invulnerable to wardecs. At no point would the freighter alt not be in a NPC corp. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
38
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mikhael Taron wrote: You appear to fail to understand written English; the freighter needs to move out of hisec. Fleets do not protect the freighter unless they are of the same corp, so that changes nothing.
OK, you want to be a **** about this? Fine, so you include low sec. What about other jump capable ships? How come they can jump into and out of low sec?
Did you think about that? No? Why not idiot?
Quote: If you bother to read the title of this topic it isn't about promoting nulsec industry.
Great, so we'll get even less. Brilliant.
Quote:Quote: 1. There is no existing mechanic for a war between the high sec empires and null sec. 2. Economic PVP has been won hands down by high sec. 3. Making it harder to use high sec's awesome economic capabilities is the wrong way to go. 4. Make the economic capabilities of null sec more viable.
- Any alliance can wardec any alliance so this assertion is false.
- There was never any competition between sov and empire markets so this is also false.
- This is promoting PvP between empire and sov so I think it's most certainly the way to go.
- They are already viable. Players in sov would rather shoot stuff than create it. Fine! The price you pay is the empire alliances waiting to pick you off when you come into their space. Similar to how sov alliances attack anyone coming into their space.
The next time you want to go off on people's reading abilities McDouche Taron make sure you yourself have it trained to level 5.
I wrote that there is no way for null sec to have a war with high sec empires...the latter would be the Amarr Empire, the Gallenete Federation, the Minmatar Republic, and the Caldari Empire.
You wont promote PvP this way. People are not going to just feed you or anyone else easy kills. Nobody is going to say, "Woot convoy duty!!!" People will avoid providing easy kills and boring stuff. As such you'll most likely turn null into even more of a Ghost Town...except for some alliances that have high-sec/null sec entry points such as EC-/Torrinos.
And have you looked at how combat mechanics work in this game? It is entirely possible that those pilots after these freighters can warp in and alpha them well before their convoy does jack **** about it. People have been ganking freighters in high sec where the response is ****ing Concord and guess what, freighters still die.
So no. This is a stupid idea. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
38
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jacid wrote:I think the poster has identified some problems facing eve however i don't think the ability of one sov null alliance to strike at another is the problem. Null industry is pointless atm, null sec only exporting PI, high end minerals and moon goos. If you want to solve the issue with null industry the only solution is to make finished products that can only be built in null either through large volume inputs only produced in null making it cost prohibitive to move the raw materials to HS or sov mechanics limiting the building of certain items to sov owned space like supercap construction. Neither solution would harm high sec industry and would add to the overall game.
My 2 Cents
Since you can't jump into or out low sec, moving stuff from null to empire is also going to be a problem too. Nobody is going to run freighters full of moon goo, or tech2 components in freighters through low sec. Killing a freighter is just too damn easy in high sec, in low sec it would be laughably easy.
The only way to do it would be for a really, really big alliance to lock down the low sec route from beginning to end, and even then there are ways around that (e.g. a fleet of 150 logs out in system and leave a lone cloaked scout there to watch, everybody logs in and then warps in on the hapless freighter and boom...billions gone).
Right now, there is a symbiotic relationship between null and high sec. Granted it isn't great since this relationship is one reason why null sec is often so empty. But this idea breaks that relationship and replaces it with nothing.
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Mikhael Taron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.03.30 09:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Mikhael Taron wrote: No wonder there's a whiff of fear in these responses. I must be onto something.
That's not fear, that's disbelief that anyone can be this clueless.
Can't think of anything to say so just make noise? Yeah, that's fear. You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
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Mikhael Taron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.03.30 09:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:LOL
You also forget that carriers, dreads and supercaps all use jump drives too, but cannot use gates. Or were you intending that they just all get evicted from lowsec to some random null system and never go back?
"LOL"? You on medication?
Also, your deranged belief that you can read my mind is truly disturbing. I had not forgotten other ships use JD. You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
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Mikhael Taron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.03.30 09:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Neal Altol wrote:[quote=Mikhael Taron] Quote:Any alliance can wardec any alliance so this assertion is false.
For high sec it would be in an npc corp there it will be invulnerable to wardecs. At no point would the freighter alt not be in a NPC corp.
Correct. As I stated: being in a fleet would give no protection to the freighter. That's a looong journey to losec. You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
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Mikhael Taron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.03.30 09:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: OK, you want to be a **** about this? Fine, so you include low sec. What about other jump capable ships? How come they can jump into and out of low sec?
Did you think about that? No? Why not idiot?
Now where did I resort to personal insults? Please control yourself. If you read what I wrote, I said "JD work only in nulsec". It's the title of this topic, so naturally it includes losec.
Teckos Pech wrote:Quote: If you bother to read the title of this topic it isn't about promoting nulsec industry.
Great, so we'll get even less. Brilliant.
No, sov will need to become more self-sufficient that it currently is. That's not the same as killing industry, which this won't do.
Quote:
- Any alliance can wardec any alliance so this assertion is false.
- There was never any competition between sov and empire markets so this is also false.
- This is promoting PvP between empire and sov so I think it's most certainly the way to go.
- They are already viable. Players in sov would rather shoot stuff than create it. Fine! The price you pay is the empire alliances waiting to pick you off when you come into their space. Similar to how sov alliances attack anyone coming into their space.
The next time you want to go off on people's reading abilities McDouche Taron make sure you yourself have it trained to level 5.
More insults. McDouche?!? Please control yourself.
I wrote that there is no way for null sec to have a war with high sec empires...the latter would be the Amarr Empire, the Gallenete Federation, the Minmatar Republic, and the Caldari Empire.
As such you'll most likely turn null into even more of a Ghost Town...except for some alliances that have high-sec/null sec entry points such as EC-/Torrinos.
Naturally you did, in a fail attempt to divert the topic away from the spectre of empire alliances wardecking those from sov. Naturally I worded things to stay on topic. You have again failed.
If nul becomes "even more of a ghost town" that would be an incentive for the smaller alliances to try their luck and move out there. They would have the logistics and be forewarned of the industrial requirements. the current alliances would have failed because, as you say, they won't involve themselves in self-sufficiency and will fail as a result. This can be only good for the game as a whole. Maybe not so much for those who currently hold sov space, but that's not a game-wide problem.
Teckos Pech wrote: And have you looked at how combat mechanics work in this game? It is entirely possible that those pilots after these freighters can warp in and alpha them well before their convoy does jack **** about it. People have been ganking freighters in high sec where the response is ****ing Concord and guess what, freighters still die.
So no. This is a stupid idea.
Correct, which is why these NPC-corp alts could not function; they would need to be in a player corp to enable the fleet to render assistance in the event of an attack. I'm glad you are starting to get a grasp of game mechanics. You have promise. Please continue posting. You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
40
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Posted - 2013.03.30 13:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ok, you are just trolling. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1805
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Posted - 2013.03.30 14:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mikhael Taron wrote:War Kitten wrote:LOL
You also forget that carriers, dreads and supercaps all use jump drives too, but cannot use gates. Or were you intending that they just all get evicted from lowsec to some random null system and never go back?
"LOL"? You on medication? Also, your deranged belief that you can read my mind is truly disturbing. I had not forgotten other ships use JD.
Yes, LOL. An indication that I was laughing at your OP and the half-baked laughable idea.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
40
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Posted - 2013.03.30 16:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
You have been insulting people in this thread right from the start. Changing their names to things like "confused" and "fail". You have been insulting people's intelligence. And implying they are on medication for pointing to other problems (e.g. capitals that spend almost all their time in low sec). So spare us the faux indignation.
Quote:If nul becomes "even more of a ghost town" that would be an incentive for the smaller alliances to try their luck and move out there. They would have the logistics and be forewarned of the industrial requirements. the current alliances would have failed because, as you say, they won't involve themselves in self-sufficiency and will fail as a result. This can be only good for the game as a whole. Maybe not so much for those who currently hold sov space, but that's not a game-wide problem.
No, because if big alliances with lots of pilots can't get their stuff in and out of null, smaller alliances will have even more trouble. And, they would have the same logistical nightmares of the bigger alliances with even less resources (read pilots) to deal with them. And are going to be even less reluctant to feed easy kills to those in low sec. They wont have the resources to handle losses of a couple of jump freighters.
Quote:Correct, which is why these NPC-corp alts could not function; they would need to be in a player corp to enable the fleet to render assistance in the event of an attack
Yes NPC-corp alts would function just fine. They can be in an NPC corp and still join the fleet and get all the benefits of being in fleet...what few there are. And even if they were in the same corp they would be just as susceptible to alpha strikes as when they are in and NPC corp.
When you wrote:
Quote:As I stated: being in a fleet would give no protection to the freighter.
That is actually about the only thing you have written that is correct...but it also means you wont see the freighter convoys you are talking about.
And here is an alternate scenario to your "smaller alliances might move to null" you'll get even fewer super coalitions. As I already noted Goons and the CFC have the EC-/Torrinos entry to null, Torrinos is high sec, EC- null. And goons already camp EC- fairly regularly...so the JF warps to the EC- gate jumps in, then jumps to VFK. Samething for moving null sec supplied goods (PI and tech 2 components). So the CFC would not be bothered too much. And TEST/HBC would probably be okay too using Efah/3-F. Granted Efah is low sec, but it is one system so very doable for a coalition the size of the HBC. And they have Keberz/HED entry point as well.
The South East and Eastern portions of null might have issues and could end up falling to TEST/HBC/CFC or some other super-coalition eventually since there isn't a high sec/null sec entry point (that I can see, haven't spent much time down there). And NPC null like Stain and Venal? Nobody will live there anymore other than the surrounding null sec coalition members. Currently 401k is basing out of Venal and hitting goons, but with no way of doing logistics from empire to Venal, they would be...well screwed. Can't evac their supers, titans, carriers and dreads to low sec and they can't jump to any surrounding sov space. NPC Delve...it would be held entirely by TEST/HBC since nobody could do logistics there anymore either.
So much of NPC null will no longer be home to alliances like 401k, Black Legion nor could they be used effectively as staging systems for invasions (e.g. IT used Fountain core for its invasion, NPC Delve is often the staging point for wars/invasions of Delve, similarly the the NPC space in Pure Blind). This could very well make null sec even more stagnant and dominated by just a handful of giant coalitions...much like the Chinese server.
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/VeriteChina/Cinfluence.png |
Mikhael Taron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.03.31 12:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
War Kitten wrote: Yes, LOL. An indication that I was laughing at your OP and the half-baked laughable idea.
An assertion lacking any rational argument as to why it's half-baked laughable idea. The hallmark of someone who can't dispute something he wishes to fault. My idea scares you, doesn't it? You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
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Mikhael Taron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.03.31 13:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Teckos Pech - You have been insulting people in this thread right from the start. Changing their names to things like "confused" and "fail". You have been insulting people's intelligence. And implying they are on medication for pointing to other problems (e.g. capitals that spend almost all their time in low sec). So spare us the faux indignation.
Can see nowhere any sign of indignation, French-word or otherwise. "lol" is hardly a rational statement, merely an attempt to ridicule something due to the poster's inability to form a rational argument against it. Capitals will not be in losec. Hardly a problem.
No, because if big alliances with lots of pilots can't get their stuff in and out of null, smaller alliances will have even more trouble. And, they would have the same logistical nightmares of the bigger alliances with even less resources (read pilots) to deal with them. And are going to be even less reluctant to feed easy kills to those in low sec. They wont have the resources to handle losses of a couple of jump freighters.
Yes, because if big alliances with lots of pilots can't be bothered to gear up their industry or provide a caravan out of empire, smaller alliances will have even more opportunity to claim their piece of sov as the current occupiers wither due to lack of armaments. And, they would have less of the logistical nightmares of the bigger alliances as they will be geared-up to produce their own stuff, reducing their dependence on empire. And are going to be less likely to feed easy kills to those in low sec. They will have already the resources, avoiding losses of jump freighters.
Yes NPC-corp alts would function just fine. They can be in an NPC corp and still join the fleet and get all the benefits of being in fleet...what few there are. And even if they were in the same corp they would be just as susceptible to alpha strikes as when they are in and NPC corp.
NPC-corp alts could not receive protection from a fleet, whereas a corp fleet can ewar the attackers and protect the freighter for concord to act. If you think freighters are often brought down with alpha-strikes you are mistaken. Only an exorbitantly high value cargo will bring out enough DPS to do that.
When you wrote:
Quote:As I stated: being in a fleet would give no protection to the freighter.
That is actually about the only thing you have written that is correct...but it also means you wont see the freighter convoys you are talking about.
No, it means you won't see convoys of NPC-alts. Those in a player corp would be more than viable, but that's a wardec target. More chance for PvP, which Is after all the title of this topic.
And here is an alternate scenario to your "smaller alliances might move to null" you'll get even fewer super coalitions. As I already noted Goons and the CFC have the EC-/Torrinos entry to null, Torrinos is high sec, EC- null. And goons already camp EC- fairly regularly...so the JF warps to the EC- gate jumps in, then jumps to VFK. Samething for moving null sec supplied goods (PI and tech 2 components). So the CFC would not be bothered too much. And TEST/HBC would probably be okay too using Efah/3-F. Granted Efah is low sec, but it is one system so very doable for a coalition the size of the HBC. And they have Keberz/HED entry point as well.
The JF needs to get through hisec, so there's the risk. Also your scenario brings inter-alliance warfare into empire space, which fulfils the thinking behind this idea: Increased opportunities for PvP.
The South East and Eastern portions of null might have issues and could end up falling to TEST/HBC/CFC or some other super-coalition eventually since there isn't a high sec/null sec entry point (that I can see, haven't spent much time down there). And NPC null like Stain and Venal? Nobody will live there anymore other than the surrounding null sec coalition members. Currently 401k is basing out of Venal and hitting goons, but with no way of doing logistics from empire to Venal, they would be...well screwed. Can't evac their supers, titans, carriers and dreads to low sec and they can't jump to any surrounding sov space. NPC Delve...it would be held entirely by TEST/HBC since nobody could do logistics there anymore either.
If they all in the same boat, how do some fail and not others?Your comment regarding Stain and Venal is another assertion lacking any reason. Logistics can still be done, the gates work fine. You appear to be under the impression that freighters can now not use gates, nor capitals use JD in nul. This has not been said.
So much of NPC null will no longer be home to alliances like 401k, Black Legion nor could they be used effectively as staging systems for invasions (e.g. IT used Fountain core for its invasion, NPC Delve is often the staging point for wars/invasions of Delve, similarly the the NPC space in Pure Blind). This could very well make null sec even more stagnant and dominated by just a handful of giant coalitions...much like the Chinese server.
Again, many assertion lacking reason to back them.
Correct me if I misunderstand the basis for all this stuff, but I get the impression that this will make maintaining hold of sov space harder for the incumbent, provide more hope for new alliances to grab a slice, increase the chances for PvP and for some personal reason you TRULY want this NOT to happen.
Fair enough, but your assertions don't in any way show me that it's a bad idea for the game.
You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
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DataRunner Attor
Independent Confederacy of Worlds
79
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Posted - 2013.03.31 15:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mikhael Taron wrote:snip to save room
1: You have been insulting people this entire thread, you should feel ashamed of yourself. I honestly don't care if you insult me, just makes you look like a child and makes me laugh.
2: I honestly don't think you understand basic logistics. If a big alliance has the inability to gear up for your...'convoys' that you so envision, who in the hell right mind will make you think that smaller alliances will have this ability?
3: And you are mistaken if you believe that people will kill your freighter just cause you have high value cargo, if they find out that your JF for a corp, and seeing the cost of JFs are through the roof. Destroying their supply chain is a great way to cripple a smaller alliance, The lost of one JF will not only set them back a few billion for a new frieghter, but it will also set them back in time, and people's willing to do said job.
4:I thought this was a change to low sec, not empire corps
5: You won't see any Frieghter convoys at all because when the hostile spots the freighter their first target will be that, they can worry about everything else later. You my friend need to actually get into a JF so you know how it works before making a suggestion like this.
6:If you wish to increase opportunities for pvp, then you should, as people been stating, create incentives. You might want to look this word up, but I will give you a run down. When you create a incentive on something, that means more people are willing to throw their lives to the grinder if that means that they have a good chance of make hell-ova lot of money...Your idea in it current form is what we call a disincentive which is the opposite of a incentive.
7: You asking how some fail and others do not, but you are making a question based on a the current system to back your new system. That's called generating proof from a non-existing situation. I see people do it all the time in my English 101 class, I do it sometimes to but...When you use that system you have very little support to back your claim.
8: I will quote myself right now for this one: If it makes it that much harder for bigger alliances to hold sov, who have manpower and the isk to support it, who in their right mind will think a smaller alliance, with less manpower and isk would be able to hold a sov point? |
Whisperen
Handsome Millionaire Playboys RISE of LEGION
22
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Posted - 2013.03.31 16:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sounds good +1 |
Arronicus
Shadows of Vorlon The Marmite Collective
483
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Posted - 2013.03.31 17:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Posting in a "Capitals and super capitals shouldn't be allowed in lowsec anymore, and all the capital builders in lowsec shouldnt be able to build capitals anymore" thread.
This is without a doubt, the STUPIDEST idea I've read since James 315 proposed to get everyone out of highsec by deleting (almost) all highsec content. |
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