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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
838
   |
Posted - 2013.04.05 16:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is AFK mining against the EULA?
There is a passage under section 6 titled "Conduct" subsection 3.
"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game."
The underlined portion pertains directly to AFK mining. ~Other patterns of play~ which would be AFK mining or the act of opening a client, activating a mining device then doing something else and not even tangentially playing EVE. This action is done to ~facilitate acquisition of items, currency or objects... at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.~ When a character is away from the keyboard they cannot do anything or interact with the world because they have no control of their character. Without control of their character they would not be able to gain any of these resources and are gathering them at an accelerated rate when compared to ATK mining. Therefore I make the argument that AFK miners are using other patterns of play to accumulate items/currency at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary game play. This is similar to botting mining because a botter is also AFK and also gaining minerals/gas/ice at an accelerated rate. We all know botting is illegal and amoral but why is AFK mining currently in a gray area? The case seems hermetically sealed against AFK mining but, myself and others would greatly appreciate a CCP ruling on AFK mining.
The problem is, how do you enforce this? It is incredibly hard to detect who is AFK mining and who had to go get a beer, go to the bathroom or do some other task. The simple solution would be, like the "New Order of Highsec" requires, having all miners dock up if they wish to do these tasks. I have a better solution, remove auto repeat from all fitted mining devices. This is a great solution, it greatly reduces the ability to AFK mine and makes it easier to identify bots. It also adds another decision to mining, whether to use combat drones or mining drones as mining drones will be the only mining device remaining that has a type of auto repeat. Finally it is an indirect buff to drones which we all know need love.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1434
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 16:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
1/10
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13464
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Is AFK mining against the EULA? No.
Quote:The underlined portion pertains directly to AFK mining. GǪor rather, it would, if being AFK somehow made you acquire stuff at an accelerated rate, which it doesn't.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1206
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
It'd be funny if it was, they'd have to ban themselves for creating an entire class of ships that actively encourage AFK mining.
"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
838
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:La Nariz wrote:Is AFK mining against the EULA? No. Quote:The underlined portion pertains directly to AFK mining. GǪor rather, it would, if being AFK somehow made you acquire stuff at an accelerated rate, which it doesn't.
It does allow you to acquire stuff at an accelerated rate. You are acquiring things as if you were present at the keyboard when you are not. This means the AFK miner will acquire things quicker than the ATK miner.
"other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."
Ordinary game play has not been defined by CCP hence the gray area and this thread.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
Dheeradj Nurgle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
341
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Does it matter? Their kind will quit the game sooner or later, and then go whine about how boring the game is. |
Hannah Flex
laissez-faire economics
291
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tippia wrote:La Nariz wrote:Is AFK mining against the EULA? No. Quote:The underlined portion pertains directly to AFK mining. GǪor rather, it would, if being AFK somehow made you acquire stuff at an accelerated rate, which it doesn't.
Player A: Works a 9-5 job, comes home and mines for 2-4 hours each evening to plex his account
Player B: Opens his client at work, sets a mackinaw mining then minimizes the client checking on it periodically and emptying the hold, etc. Has no qualms about 'being afk'
Clearly Player B is aquiring items, ore, isk at a different rate than Player A, the rate is not 'accelerated' but is a grey area in terms of the spirit of the game, functions are almost bot-like in that his client only requires casual monitoring like once per hour.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
838
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:Does it matter? Their kind will quit the game sooner or later, and then go whine about how boring the game is.
It matters greatly, if it is against the EULA it creates an incentive for CCP to develop mining into a more interactive and fun state.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
Rhivre
TarNec
34
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:
It does allow you to acquire stuff at an accelerated rate. You are acquiring things as if you were present at the keyboard when you are not. This means the AFK miner will acquire things quicker than the ATK miner.
"other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."
Ordinary game play has not been defined by CCP hence the gray area and this thread.
How does not being at the keyboard allow you to get things faster than being at the keyboard?
Does AFK make your mining go faster, relative to someone sitting there?
It could be argued that being at the keyboard allows you to maximise your yield, whereas setting up lasers, then disappearing for 20 mins or w/e means you are not optimising your cycles. |
Dave Stark
2428
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
let us assume that "normal gameplay" is sitting there staring at your mining lasers cycle. which i assume is what you mean since this is an anti-afk thread.
how does not staring at your mining lasers make you acquire stuff faster?
you waste time reading this? |
Dave Stark
2428
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
also let's not kid ourselves, if npc rats were worth 10x as much because they took 10x as long to kill (so they keep the same isk/time as they do now) ratters would all fly amarr ships and go afk too.
path of least resistance and all.
besides, the effort of afk mining is totally justified by it's isk/hour.
you waste time reading this? |
Hannah Flex
laissez-faire economics
292
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:Does it matter? Their kind will quit the game sooner or later, and then go whine about how boring the game is. It matters greatly, if it is against the EULA it creates an incentive for CCP to develop mining into a more interactive and fun state.
One solution would be a type of 'power meter' that waxes and wanes. A completely unattended miner would have a poor hourly yield no matter the skills, implants, boosts. But an attentive miner who was at the keyboard could obtain a decent yield by paying attention to his power meter and clicking it when it waxes.
If you are a current miner who engages in these afk activities and find yourself outraged by the possibility of having to be at the keyboard, something like this being implemented, you need to ask yourself why. Ratters, mission runners, etc. all need to be at the keyboard and paying attention, why shouldn't you?? |
Dave Stark
2428
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:Does it matter? Their kind will quit the game sooner or later, and then go whine about how boring the game is. It matters greatly, if it is against the EULA it creates an incentive for CCP to develop mining into a more interactive and fun state.
so wrong it's painful.
a shame, you usually post well thought out things. or, at least more thought out than this thread.
you waste time reading this? |
Dheeradj Nurgle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
341
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:Does it matter? Their kind will quit the game sooner or later, and then go whine about how boring the game is. It matters greatly, if it is against the EULA it creates an incentive for CCP to develop mining into a more interactive and fun state.
I'll give you that. I would also like to see mining to be something like a "Minigame", or atleast something that requires attention. |
Hannah Flex
laissez-faire economics
292
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:How does not being at the keyboard allow you to get things faster than being at the keyboard?
Does AFK make your mining go faster, relative to someone sitting there?
The person who mines AFK can do so when other people are occupied by real life, like jobs, school, overnight, etc. Therefore they are obtaining an inherent advantage over people who do not have a computer at work or school.
So they are aquiring these 'things' over an extended period of time unavailable to normal players who adhere to the spirit of the game.
|
Theangryhobo
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
170
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:Does it matter? Their kind will quit the game sooner or later, and then go whine about how boring the game is. It matters greatly, if it is against the EULA it creates an incentive for CCP to develop mining into a more interactive and fun state.
But would you mine even if they did? That is the true question here.
. |
Dave Stark
2428
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hannah Flex wrote:Rhivre wrote:How does not being at the keyboard allow you to get things faster than being at the keyboard?
Does AFK make your mining go faster, relative to someone sitting there? The person who mines AFK can do so when other people are occupied by real life, like jobs, school, overnight, etc. Therefore they are obtaining an inherent advantage over people who do not have a computer at work or school. So they are aquiring these 'things' over an extended period of time unavailable to normal players who adhere to the spirit of the game.
having a computer at work/school/etc is the advantage, not mining.
you waste time reading this? |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
432
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Tippia wrote:La Nariz wrote:Is AFK mining against the EULA? No. Quote:The underlined portion pertains directly to AFK mining. GǪor rather, it would, if being AFK somehow made you acquire stuff at an accelerated rate, which it doesn't. It does allow you to acquire stuff at an accelerated rate. You are acquiring things as if you were present at the keyboard when you are not. This means the AFK miner will acquire things quicker than the ATK miner. " other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play." Ordinary game play has not been defined by CCP hence the gray area and this thread.
So next time I am mining and I got to take a dump, someone should report me as afk mining.
This is dumb. C'mon man.
"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Dave Stark
2428
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:So next time I am mining and I got to take a dump, someone should report me as afk mining.
This is dumb. C'mon man.
take your laptop to the bathroom, problem solved.
i mean, what do you think i'm doing right now?
you waste time reading this? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13469
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:It does allow you to acquire stuff at an accelerated rate. How does walking away from the computer make the strip miners pull in more ore than they otherwise would?
Answer: it doesn't. Thus, being AFK doesn't produce ore at an accelerated rate (in fact, being AFK means you're missing out on all the other income-generating things you can do while at the keyboard, so you earn assets at a slower rate).
Quote:You are acquiring things as if you were present at the keyboard when you are not. This means the AFK miner will acquire things quicker than the ATK miner. Check you logic there. GÇ£Acquiring things as if you were presentGÇ¥ Gëá GÇ£acquire fasterGÇ¥.
Hannah Flex wrote:Player A: Works a 9-5 job, comes home and mines for 2-4 hours each evening to plex his account
Player B: Opens his client at work, sets a mackinaw mining then minimizes the client checking on it periodically and emptying the hold, etc. Has no qualms about 'being afk' GǪand he acquires assets at the same rate as player A.
Playing longer Gëá acquire at a different rate.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Hannah Flex
laissez-faire economics
292
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:having a computer at work/school/etc is the advantage, not mining.
Typically when MMO developers have ingame mechanics that are easily replicated/bottable they change the mechanics to keep on top of botters. In the case of EVE Online, the developers have actually changed the mechanics to make mining even more bottable, to the point that mackinaws require so little attention that even a player who is at the keyboard doesnt need to interact with his game client for 45 minutes.
Seems counter-productive at best 
|
Dave Stark
2428
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
ccp have a better method; they ban the botters rather than making the game unenjoyable for every one until the botters adapt to the new game mechanics.
nothing has made botting more or less difficult. the only changes the bots needed with regards to the mackinaw changes was changing how frequently a solo mackinaw was docking to unload cargo.
also 45 mins is completely bullshit, might want to check your maths.
you waste time reading this? |
Hannah Flex
laissez-faire economics
292
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:having a computer at work/school/etc is the advantage, not mining.
Also: if my EVE Online profession was anything other than mining this computer at work or school would be no advantage to me. I couldnt do exploration without my boss or co-workers going wtf? I couldnt plex without the same issue, faction war, anomalies, ratting, wormholing.
Only mining lets me gather resources while AFK, unattended client, minimized client, hell- even the guy who opens up 100 clients and has them all on the map screen while mining ice then makes a post and video boasting about his mad 'legal' botting skills
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Dave Stark
2428
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hannah Flex wrote:Dave Stark wrote:having a computer at work/school/etc is the advantage, not mining. Also: if my EVE Online profession was anything other than mining this computer at work or school would be no advantage to me. I couldnt do exploration without my boss or co-workers going wtf? I couldnt plex without the same issue, faction war, anomalies, ratting, wormholing. Only mining lets me gather resources while AFK, unattended client, minimized client, hell- even the guy who opens up 100 clients and has them all on the map screen while mining ice then makes a post and video boasting about his mad 'legal' botting skills
yes you could, you just choose not to.
either way, it's beside the point. playing at work doesn't some how make you obtain things faster.
you waste time reading this? |
Hannah Flex
laissez-faire economics
292
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:ccp have a better method; they ban the botters rather than making the game unenjoyable
If mining is unenjoyable for someone unless they can do it AFK or not paying attention to their game client, tabbed out watching netflix, etc. then they should find a more enjoyable way to spend their entertainment dollars.
|
Dave Stark
2428
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hannah Flex wrote:Dave Stark wrote:ccp have a better method; they ban the botters rather than making the game unenjoyable If mining is unenjoyable for someone unless they can do it AFK or not paying attention to their game client, tabbed out watching netflix, etc. then they should find a more enjoyable way to spend their entertainment dollars.
i didn't say mining was unenjoyable.
i just pointed out ccp don't arbitrarily make things worse for everyone permanently in order to disrupt a subset of players temporarily. i'm sure even you can see the sense in that.
you waste time reading this? |
Hannah Flex
laissez-faire economics
292
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Hannah Flex wrote:Dave Stark wrote:having a computer at work/school/etc is the advantage, not mining. Also: if my EVE Online profession was anything other than mining this computer at work or school would be no advantage to me. I couldnt do exploration without my boss or co-workers going wtf? I couldnt plex without the same issue, faction war, anomalies, ratting, wormholing. Only mining lets me gather resources while AFK, unattended client, minimized client, hell- even the guy who opens up 100 clients and has them all on the map screen while mining ice then makes a post and video boasting about his mad 'legal' botting skills yes you could, you just choose not to.
The point is: the reward of mining does not equal the risk/effort required. Zero effort, or attention required. Sure mining is the 'minimum wage' of EVE but I havent encountered any other game in my 25 years of playing MMO's that allow resource gathering this way. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13470
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:also 45 mins is completely bullshit, might want to check your maths. 1.1k m-¦ per cycle, 35k m-¦ ore hold GåÆ 30 cycles to fill with 2 miners GåÆ 15+ù3 minute cycles = 45 minutes.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Hannah Flex
laissez-faire economics
292
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Hannah Flex wrote:Dave Stark wrote:ccp have a better method; they ban the botters rather than making the game unenjoyable If mining is unenjoyable for someone unless they can do it AFK or not paying attention to their game client, tabbed out watching netflix, etc. then they should find a more enjoyable way to spend their entertainment dollars. i didn't say mining was unenjoyable. i just pointed out ccp don't arbitrarily make things worse
Why would mining suddenly become 'worse' if it required a little more effort or attention? These forums are filled with threads begging for interactive and intuitive PVE. |
Dave Stark
2430
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dave Stark wrote:also 45 mins is completely bullshit, might want to check your maths. 1.1k m-¦ per cycle, 35k m-¦ ore hold GåÆ 30 cycles to fill with 2 miners GåÆ 15+ù3 minute cycles = 45 minutes.
oh righty, i was assuming orca boosted ice mining since realistically, you're not afk mining ore. ever.
you waste time reading this? |
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