Harvesting Moon Goo is the ultimate AFK mining. Dunno what the OP is complaining about, with the alliance he is in and so on.

Except the rate at which those titans were built would require a LOT more effort on the parts of the alliances to defend them at the price of all those people needing to log in, not just for reinforce timers while they play on different pilots.

It would require a TON more time (yep time) and at keyboard effort and attention to accomplish it all. That time is the risk in the game of timers.

^^ This.
Player A's decision to babysit his mining ship for whatever reason does not make Player B's decision not to do that into something prohibited.

An afk builder would still produce jsut as fast as an offline player right now. There is no added risk unless they cahnge what need to be done to stop the production, in this case, destroying the production facility. You could AFK build in the same "secure" space as you offline build right now. The timers would still be on the tower to prevent them from being sneak-killed just like right now.

Ah yes, except that aside from the initial effort required to capture and setup the pos and arrays, we have enemies. The local Venal residents like to shoot our moons, they can be reinforced in one seige cycle by a dreadnought group. We must form up 256 dudes in battleships with logi and recon support when this happens. Every time. The enemy sees our overwhelming force and doesnt show up. We rep our pos. Life goes on.

If we dont form up this overwhelming force each and every time, our enemies may overcome a smaller force and capture our moon. Peace through superior fire-power. So you see- despite the highsec narrative of afk income from passive moon mining, it is quite labor-intensive having these moons. Its not like highsec where you put down your pos 4 jumps from Jita and everyone leaves it alone. And a magical NPC army spawns and destroys anyone who shoots it lest they be paid a fee.

And thats why only online and at keyboard progress would be a testament to how hardcore an alliance would be considered.

Not from what they do afk or offline. Imagine having to logon and click every 5 minutes to "complete" a module or "part" of that ship during the process.

Would definitely bring a whole new value to each and every big ship in the game.

Wouold definitely encourage a lot more industrialists in the game as well. Busy busy busy.

I disagree time investment matters in an activity such as this. Hence the difference in rates.

i dread to think how many people would strongly risk being banned just to bot through something that ********.

I disagree time investment matters in an activity such as this. Hence the difference in rates.

Time investment of the character is what matters. If that character is sitting at a belt after having activated their miners/harvesters on a valid target they have performed the only activity needed to reap the yield of that resource up to the capacity of that resource or the capacity of their ship. This is the design of mining.

The ingame investment of the AFK player in your scenario is greater, thus they reap the greater reward. They still accrued reward at the same rate.

Everybody would only fly in destroyer because you can recycle alts after running all the available military training that give you them for free. New player system would litteraly be flodded with alts doing the same 4 mission for the free dessy.

See this is where everything hinges and CCP will have to step in to tell us what's what. You are claiming that the AFK miner invests more time for more resources. I am claiming that because they are not playing the game and the game is essentially playing itself the AFK miner invests less time but receives more resources.

Harvesting Moon Goo is the ultimate AFK mining. Dunno what the OP is complaining about, with the alliance he is in and so on.

It does allow you to acquire stuff at an accelerated rate. You are acquiring things as if you were present at the keyboard when you are not. This means the AFK miner will acquire things quicker than the ATK miner.

"other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."

Ordinary game play has not been defined by CCP hence the gray area and this thread.

See this is where everything hinges and CCP will have to step in to tell us what's what. You are claiming that the AFK miner invests more time for more resources. I am claiming that because they are not playing the game and the game is essentially playing itself the AFK miner invests less time but receives more resources.

I would imagine that most consider providing input to the client to be playing the game. Because in reality it's just staring and waiting for timers to expire, which is nothing more than passive observation, that separates an AFK miner from an ATK miner by definition.

I disagree time investment matters in an activity such as this. Hence the difference in rates.

See this is where everything hinges and CCP will have to step in to tell us what's what.

I am claiming that because they are not playing the game and the game is essentially playing itself

Passive observation is fine but not required there are plenty of things to do while mining, chatting, marketing, etc. So those that choose passive observation are choosing to do less than they could and losing out on acquiring things. AFK mining however is almost-no observation which wouldn't be a problem except that over time it becomes an unfair advantage over ordinary play.

GǪexcept, of course, that there is no difference in rates and that as a result, unsurprisingly, spending twice the time yields twice the income.

You can disagree as much as you like, but earning 4 volume units in 4 time units is the same rate as earning 8 volume units in 8 time units. Your disagreeing only makes you fail at pre-school maths.

CCP don't particularly need to step in to tell us that 4/4 = 8/8.

GǪwhich is, of course, false. The game doesn't play itself GÇö it just counts down a timer, which is the same for the both player A and B, after which both player A and B yield the same rewards. Same reward for the same time = same rate. There is nothing even remotely accelerated about either of them (but of course, being at the keyboard means that player A will earn more than player B).

You're forgetting that they are getting 8 volume units for 4 time units

They are spending 4 hours playing and 4 hours AFK so that's

GǪexcept, of course, that there is no difference in rates and that as a result, unsurprisingly, spending twice the time yields twice the income.

You can disagree as much as you like, but earning 4 volume units in 4 time units is the same rate as earning 8 volume units in 8 time units. Your disagreeing only makes you fail at pre-school maths.

CCP don't particularly need to step in to tell us that 4/4 = 8/8.

GǪwhich is, of course, false. The game doesn't play itself GÇö it just counts down a timer, which is the same for the both player A and B, after which both player A and B yield the same rewards. Same reward for the same time = same rate. There is nothing even remotely accelerated about either of them (but of course, being at the keyboard means that player A will earn more than player B).

Nope. That's you confusing AFK with botting again.

GǪ8 hours played total, for 8 volume units. Twice the time for twice the volume.

You're forgetting that they are getting 8 volume units for 4 time units, not 4 volume units for 4 time units, nor 8 volume units for 8 time units. They are spending 4 hours playing and 4 hours AFK so that's 4 times units not 8. It's not same time = same rate or their wouldn't be an issue. It's same time = double rate.

So again we go to in your language AFK mining = botting.

You can't play the game by not playing it

Nope. That's still you saying they're the same. I'm saying they're not.

The only way for player B to get 8 VUs for 4 TUs played would be if he used a bot. If not, he would have to spend the 8 TUs to get the 8 VUs GÇö i.e. the same rate as someone spending 4 TUs to get 4 VUs.

In reality, if he was actually AFK, he'd only get -+ a VU for 8 TU, which means that the ATK player would have a rate that's about 11+ù higher (not that it matter since both qualify as ordinary gameplay).

Exactly. So in order to get the 8 VUs you have to spend the 8 TUs, which yields the same rate as if you had spent 4 TUs to get 4 VUs.

AFK miners by virtue of being AFK are not playing the game. The player is only spending 4 TUs yet walking away with 8 VUs. Ordinary gameplay has not been defined so you can't assume that.

So again we go to in your language AFK mining = botting. You can't play the game by not playing it, sure you can be logged in that long total but you didn't play the game, its 4 hours played for 8 volume units.