i didn't say mining was unenjoyable.

i just pointed out ccp don't arbitrarily make things worse

The point is: the reward of mining does not equal the risk/effort required.

Why would mining suddenly become 'worse' if it required a little more effort or attention? These forums are filled with threads begging for interactive and intuitive PVE.

And that reveals the underlying agenda

Mining is soo boring that I do other things, go AFK, tab out, let it go overnight, run it at work etc. but the champions of this type of gameplay ardently protect it as well, at the same time decrying how boring it is. Why should you fear changes to make it more interactive/ exciting except to protect your botting ways?

why are you advocating changing a perfectly fine system?

So they are aquiring these 'things' over an extended period of time unavailable to normal players who adhere to the spirit of the game.

The system is not perfectly fine. Miners complain that mining is boring therefore they must do it AFK.

normal players who adhere to the spirit of the game.

source?

You are the source.

Also: if my EVE Online profession was anything other than mining this computer at work or school would be no advantage to me. I couldnt do exploration without my boss or co-workers going wtf? I couldnt plex without the same issue, faction war, anomalies, ratting, wormholing.

Only mining lets me gather resources while AFK, unattended client, minimized client, hell- even the guy who opens up 100 clients and has them all on the map screen while mining ice then makes a post and video boasting about his mad 'legal' botting skills

i've never said mining is boring, or that i must do it afk.
in fact, i believe a few posts up i just pointed out that if you're mining ore you just don't go afk.

so wrong it's painful.

a shame, you usually post well thought out things. or, at least more thought out than this thread.

Well, apart from being a trader.....although, allegedly, we are all bots anyway

Obviously the proponents of the AFK mining system are out in force and determined that the status quo be maintained. therefore I will retire from commenting further secure in the knowledge that my point was made. Please continue discussing why AFK mining is good for a vibrant and healthy EVE Online

Is AFK mining against the EULA?

There is a passage under section 6 titled "Conduct" subsection 3.

"You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game."

The underlined portion pertains directly to AFK mining. ~Other patterns of play~ which would be AFK mining or the act of opening a client, activating a mining device then doing something else and not even tangentially playing EVE. This action is done to ~facilitate acquisition of items, currency or objects... at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.~ When a character is away from the keyboard they cannot do anything or interact with the world because they have no control of their character. Without control of their character they would not be able to gain any of these resources and are gathering them at an accelerated rate when compared to ATK mining. Therefore I make the argument that AFK miners are using other patterns of play to accumulate items/currency at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary game play. This is similar to botting mining because a botter is also AFK and also gaining minerals/gas/ice at an accelerated rate. We all know botting is illegal and amoral but why is AFK mining currently in a gray area? The case seems hermetically sealed against AFK mining but, myself and others would greatly appreciate a CCP ruling on AFK mining.

The problem is, how do you enforce this? It is incredibly hard to detect who is AFK mining and who had to go get a beer, go to the bathroom or do some other task. The simple solution would be, like the "New Order of Highsec" requires, having all miners dock up if they wish to do these tasks. I have a better solution, remove auto repeat from all fitted mining devices. This is a great solution, it greatly reduces the ability to AFK mine and makes it easier to identify bots. It also adds another decision to mining, whether to use combat drones or mining drones as mining drones will be the only mining device remaining that has a type of auto repeat. Finally it is an indirect buff to drones which we all know need love.

Okay since you are one of the few npc alts that post decently I'll flesh it out more for you. CCP does not like people quitting, if people quit because it is boring and unfun that gives CCP an incentive to fix it. Mining is already boring and unfun but not to the degree it actively drives people from the game. This is not saying "make mining so bad people quit" so much as it is saying "hey look a gray area, lets fix it and while doing so make mining better."

It matters greatly, if it is against the EULA it creates an incentive for CCP to develop mining into a more interactive and fun state.

the problems with mining are not the mechanics of mining itself. the problems with mining are things like; player corps have 0 to offer you. it's untaxable. it's an activity that's done best solo in an anti social manner

How does walking away from the computer make the strip miners pull in more ore than they otherwise would?

Answer: it doesn't. Thus, being AFK doesn't produce ore at an accelerated rate (in fact, being AFK means you're missing out on all the other income-generating things you can do while at the keyboard, so you earn assets at a slower rate).

Check you logic there. GÇ£Acquiring things as if you were presentGÇ¥ Gëá GÇ£acquire fasterGÇ¥.

GǪand he acquires assets at the same rate as player A.
Playing longer Gëá acquire at a different rate.

Mynnna and Weasilor have expounded on this often when discussing Farms & Fields initiatives. I look forward to this years CSM

i'm not an alt! :( this is, believe it or not, my main character.

ccp don't like people quitting, and that is why they [probably] won't make mining more interactive.

from a personal point of view; if mining requires some form of mini game/quick time event stuff that will pretty much stop me mining with my 3 accounts as i do now because i'm not the octopus man nor do i use third party programs. that means i'll only be able to focus on one miner, so i'll drop my second mining account, that takes me below the threshold of making an orca worth while so i'll drop that pilot too.
poof, down from 3 accounts to 1 account, also without an orca the isk/hour is even lower, so i'll just stop mining all together. it's gone from an "afk activity" to an activity i wouldn't even consider. granted, i am probably not the "average" player, however i doubt i'm the only person like this.

mining isn't boring and unfun. sure mining won't give you the same adrenaline rush i get when trying to scoop and warp away with 500m isk of cargo from a mammoth pilot with more isk than sense but still, mining still has something to offer.

i appreciate mining has room for improvement, the common answers aren't "improvements" they're just dumb repeated ideas to make mining cumbersome and unafkable because apparently not being able to go afk constitutes fun. i don't get that concept but people seem to love it.

the problems with mining are not the mechanics of mining itself. the problems with mining are things like; player corps have 0 to offer you. it's untaxable. it's an activity that's done best solo in an anti social manner. it has nothing to do with the fact that if i go and answer the door my lasers carry on cycling.

edit: another problem with mining is that the ships aren't balanced in the slightest because the rebalance was horrible and don't get me started on that...

The rate is accelerated because the player is gaining mining cycles while not actually playing EVE. So say we have an AFK miner and an ATK miner. Both spend 4 hours mining but, the AFK miner spends 4 hours AFK mining. Since AFK mining is not actually playing EVE they spent no time actually playing EVE and did something analogous to botting. This means the AFK miner took in twice what the ATK miner did in the same amount of time spent playing EVE.