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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |

Suyer
Explorer Corps Polarized.
11
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:38:00 -
[91] - Quote
Glad that CCP Fozzie assumes evreybody has level 5 skills.
Too bad in the real game we don't all get ALL V ccp characters.
Looking forward to ****** T3s especially after the incoming nerf they don't deserve but I'm sure you will implement. |

Allandri
Liandri Industrial Liandri Covenant
32
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:41:00 -
[92] - Quote
How about down to 3% per level? Or changing base resists? |

greiton starfire
Project Aces Li3 Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:42:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:I can promise you that we're committed to eating our vegetables and making adjustments either up or down based on our best estimation of what the game needs. We won't decrease the power of items and ships unless we deem it necessary but we also won't forget that our job is to manage the health of the game over the long term.
Thankyou for this. while i may not always agree with the balancing its this idea of keeping the system healthy and not just doing what will be popular that will keep eve going through the years. wow and other mmos may not experience the negatives of power creep at first it very quickly becomes a problem in end game. in eve everything is pretty much endgame so focusing on the balance health is very important. |

Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
139
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:43:00 -
[94] - Quote
You're already proposing applying the resistance nerf to some widely-used ships (especially the Rokh, which has an entire fleet doctrine based around it). For pity's sake, get some data on what happens to those ships before applying the resistance reduction to dozens of ships, some of which haven't even been touched by the rebalancing brush - or at the very least, don't apply the nerf to a ship that hasn't yet been rebalanced. Make the 5% to 4% part of the rebalancing process, not an across-the-board carpet-bombing nerf to ships that might actually end up broken by it. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8637
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:44:00 -
[95] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Finally, the long-awaited Eagle nerf is here! 

Please vote for me for CSM8-áhere
My recommended voting list |

Volstruis
The Tuskers
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:46:00 -
[96] - Quote
Kinda thinking it's better now to sit out this Tiericide thing before investing in my hangar anymore. |

Leon De Grande
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:46:00 -
[97] - Quote
Here is how I understand the problem.
The core of this problem seems to be the trouble separating two different roles for ships. 1. Ships that are supposed to work well with their internal resources, without depending on external sources. (Local resources.) 2. Ships that are designed to reach their full potential by depending on external resources. (Fleet resources.) The "intended roles" is the assumed motivation for everything here, so if these are not the roles intended my mistake for misunderstanding.
So currently the specific problem is that local repair bonuses are overshadowed by resistance bonuses. This is because the resistance bonus boosts local tank just as much as the intended repair bonus, while also providing other defensive benefits IN ADDITION to directly augmenting the use of fleet resources. (The EHP bonus from resistance has solo value because your ship will take longer to break in a race against time, this also is good in fleet situations because it gives logistics more time to respond successfully. Also the lowered incoming damage makes higher EHP/s values possible which directly increases the value of remote reps. You can simply tank more incoming damage before you start to break.)
So basically what I am getting from this is that the bonus intended to focus on role "2" as described above also works just as well for role "1", making the bonus for role "1" inferior due to being superfluous.
___________________________________________________ Why not increase the value of the local rep bonus instead of reducing the resistance bonus? These two bonuses are designed for different purposes, wouldn't increasing local rep bonuses make these two bonuses more distinct from one another? If the resistance bonus is too powerful, relative to the local rep bonus, it seems logical to me to increase the local rep bonus.
Instead of thinking "I don't want to use my local rep ship because the resistance bonus ship is too strong." Think, "I don't want to use my local rep ship because the local rep is too weak." |

Antal Marius
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:49:00 -
[98] - Quote
Kellaen wrote:Antal Marius wrote:Why lower the tank on already squishy mining ships?! Leave their resists alone.
If you want a tanked mining vessel, the procurer & skiff fit that role. Oh god you might have to sacrafice some yield!
Their lowering the tank on those. That's what I'm complaining about. My fits are all tank, with little yield. |

Nightfox BloodRaven
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:51:00 -
[99] - Quote
Honestly I think this is a bad idea.
Some ships with the combination of bonuses may be a bit strong and need to be examined but to throw Frigs, Cruisers, BCs, BSs, HAC, Faction ships.. all in one pot and apply the change to a whole pot of them is LAZY at best.
Each ship/class need to be look at separately.. take the ferox for example.. few flies this ship before the BC changes now i see a bit more of them which is a good thing cuz its a great ship. I solo in it but honestly losing that 5% is gonna make things A LOT harder to the solo player...
First of all Armor Resist are stronger than Shield Resists.. so Armor and Shield need to be look at separately.
Also not everyone has level 5 skills.. so for us that dont these resist bonuses are forgiving to us and make PVP more viable..
Also.. i understand your goal is to balance these ships but the game itself can NEVER be balanced.. ppl with different skill levels.. ships with different roles... you shouldnt try to make everything equal... then there is no point to fly one ship over the other..
If you wan to change resistance bonuses do it properly on a ship by ship bases.. don be lazy just apply the bat to all and hope it will work out for the best.. |

Jedediah Arndtz
Not Another Acronym
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:52:00 -
[100] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:You're already proposing applying the resistance nerf to some widely-used ships (especially the Rokh, which has an entire fleet doctrine based around it). For pity's sake, get some data on what happens to those ships before applying the resistance reduction to dozens of ships, some of which haven't even been touched by the rebalancing brush - or at the very least, don't apply the nerf to a ship that hasn't yet been rebalanced. Make the 5% to 4% part of the rebalancing process, not an across-the-board carpet-bombing nerf to ships that might actually end up broken by it.
Otherwise, there's too much of a chance that some of those broken ships will get lost in the shuffle of the massive changes.
On the Rattlesnake: Yaaaay. Missiles are ******, drones are a pain, and the only saving grace it really has is the tank. But no, CCP's gonna just nerf **** into oblivion without bothering to actually try and balance things. |

SomeoneStrange
The Caerus Gate
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:52:00 -
[101] - Quote
Gotta admit, Fozzie's math and logic here makes sense. While I feel that some ships with the 5% resist bonus (Abaddon) are currently very well balanced, I also agree that these bonuses seem more powerful, and more flexible, than most others.
I feel like some of the ships seeing reduced resistances (HICTORS especially) will need some kind of small boost to their other stats in order to remain competitive with their peers. |

Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:54:00 -
[102] - Quote
+1 on the applying resists to remote reps idea, I think that is the way to balance resists at this point instead of -1% resist bonus.
Here is a counter proposal to the resist nerf:
Apply resists to remote reps exactly like they are applied to damage. Note that local reps should not suffer from this.
Split the active omni resist boost modules by size, and give the medium version 125% cap cycle cost increase, and the large a 150% cap cycle cost increase. Keep the smalls like the old ones.
This is actually far more elegant than changing 40+ ships worth of stats, and fixes the absurd invuln stacking + remote rep gameplay in large blobs.
But please, leave our beloved resist bonus alone. It might fix large fleets, but small fleet/roam/raider meta will be smashed by the proposed changes. Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3309
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:54:00 -
[103] - Quote
Fozzie,
First, let me say that resist bonuses are very powerful. I think we all know and agree with this. However, I was personally fond of your previous approach to balancing resist bonuses: by restricting the ships in other ways. The implication here is that ships with a resist bonus are frequently slower ships, or have less fittings, or less damage, or less range, etc. You specifically bring up nerfing the Nighthawk, despite neither the ship or it's tank being that big of a deal. I contend that nerfing resist bonuses is an untargeted solution that ignores actual ship balance.
Another thing I want to bring up is that you're concerned that buffing active tanking ships to benefit more directly from remote repair would be a buff to remote repair. I contend that's probably not true. Resist bonuses are still strongly favored due to the extra EHP and the active tanking ships in question would still be the weak link in the kind of logi blob we're talking about.
That said, I'm completely ok with active tanking ships not getting the RR bonus, because there should be ships that are better in certain metas than others. It's ok that certain ships are good in fleets and others aren't. It's ok that certain ships are good solo and others aren't. From my perspective, it's even ok that entire races are heavily biased towards one meta or another.
I don't think you need to nerf resist bonuses.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Xtraterra
Sommerloch Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:56:00 -
[104] - Quote
Good Idea...
but not a solution active bonus is useless in Fleets.
If a ship have a Resi-Bonus it also habe a Rep Bonus and a EHP Bonus. And we can use it in small scale pvp and fleet pvp... where aktive tank is bullshit :(
Most of active bonus repping ships (shield/Armor) have more med oder low slots...
ALL WE NEED IS A BONUS FOR SMALL SCAL AND LARGE PVP...
A Solution:
for example a shield/armor tanking ship get 4% resi bonus for each 10% rep bonus while the repper is AKTIVE!!!!! 37,5% rep bonus come together with 20% resi bonus while repper is active.
Aktive Repper bonus ships need a slot to be usefuel in fleets.  |

Leon De Grande
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:59:00 -
[105] - Quote
As a follow up to my previous post I would like to enunciate the idea that resist bonused ships are intended to be superior in groups, and local rep bonus ships are intended to be superior on their own. If this is not the intention, I have always assumed it was, then I would also ask "Why should it not be?"
I absolutely do not agree with applying a remote rep bonus to local rep bonused ships, nor do I agree with reducing remote reps to resistance bonused ships. If you do this you're heading in the direction of trying to make two different unique bonuses do the same thing, instead of making them distinct from one another and providing different roles within the game to add more flavor. A flavorful playground is better than a bland one.
|

Swiftus Mahyisti
Ghost Headquarters The Marmite Collective
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:00:00 -
[106] - Quote
There have been some hings brought up about HICs, that they should keep there 5% role, I agree. Not only should HICs keep the bonus but so should the hacs that use them, and command ships. Seeing as most hacs are OK and since the cruiser rebalance almost half of the hacs are too expensive compared to their t1 counter parts. The Sacrilege is one that needs love as is, it fills a niche yes, but its not GREAT, considering the new maller can do more dps and have similar buffer, so I feel that ships like the Sacrilege, Devoter and Abos/Damnation do not need that heavy handed ehp nerf, considering they already aren't worth the isk you put into them. Hopefully before you go and do this, you at least rebalance the HACs and CS before you implement this change to them.
Anyway thanks for reading! o7 |

Lithorn
The Dark Tribe
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:03:00 -
[107] - Quote
Buhhdust Princess wrote:So now we've: 1) Removed the 8th low slot of every Amarr Battleship and 2) Removed 1% of the extra resist that would of probably kept them balanced.
Personally, I don't see a need to remove that 1%, I was killing Amarr perfectly fine.
Also, doing it to capitals is silly, it's a lot of time/effort to build them, and a lot of ISK to buy them. Removing a percentage of their bonuses just seems a bit dodgy.
Well since I don't sit in the corner of their office when they do this stuff I can only guess that C.C.P's view on the capitals is that there are too many and not enough are dying. I definitely think there are far too many super caps and not enough of those dying.. (I'm sure i'm going to get some flames for this.)
I agree about the subcap bit, I have no trouble killing them.
P.S. Local reps in P.V.P? That's crazy talk... |

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
557
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:05:00 -
[108] - Quote
Excellent change
(omg, michael harari agreeing with fozzie wtf).
I think you should consider leaving the bonus on the AT ships though 
I also guess this means that hacs and CS are going to be rebalanced soon? |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2011
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:06:00 -
[109] - Quote
I support these Resistance Changes.... I think they are much needed, and will improve the game.
I also think reviewing the "already rebalanced" ships is important to see how this changes the overall lineup! |

Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
259
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:08:00 -
[110] - Quote
Hehe just what i expected. Oh no 5% resist bonus compared to 7.5% repair amount bonus is too good, lets insta nerf resist bonus. Lots of bla bla bla to show us why 5% resist bonus is better.
Now the fails: -This is clearly another caldari nerf , and amarr, we already know caldari is the most used race for pvp , so it rly needs this nerf right? -Another stealth boost for winmatar, they dont use resist bonus , so whohoo every minmatard are happy now. Also the smaller ehp is very welcome by alpha dmg ships, which for some reason tends to be matar ships ,what a coincidence.. -Never takes into account actual ship performance, why would he? We all fly bonuses only , who has the better wins , right? imho resist bonused ship hulls tend to be shittier than the ships without, if you negate the bonuses -Nerfs already subpar ships,yes those need to be looked at anyway ,but if resist bonus is so op as he says why those ships arent used?like eagle ,ferox,punisher -Another balancing from solo/very small pvp view(aka repair bonused ships), maybe if you wouldnt design the game that you need more and more people to do anything efficiently like sov warfare ,i can totally see how "small" number of people can take territory ... -Maybe just maybe self repair bonus is a bad idea to start with , only good for small fleet/solo and pve -if self repair bonused ships are so bad why not boost them to be on par with resist bonused/normal ones? you could maybe lower the cap need for repair modules , lower their fitting needs, increase the bonust to 9% or something -if the problem is that the resist bonus also gives self repair bonus , why not give a penalty to even it out? like -3% for repair modules efficiency /lvl?
oh and some more question: -which resist bonused ships do you think are too good ? wouldnt be easier to look at them and balance them than to change 20+ or such ships? -why is it a problem to have a good or better bonus than some other,especially when there are many other things the ships can be balanced like slots , fitting , speed etc? -you already went throu balancing with many ships with resist bonuses , does this nerf to them means you look at them again and give them boost to be balanced?
|

Ranamar
Li3's Electric Cucumber Li3 Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:11:00 -
[111] - Quote
Leon De Grande wrote: Why not increase the value of the local rep bonus instead of reducing the resistance bonus? These two bonuses are designed for different purposes, wouldn't increasing local rep bonuses make these two bonuses more distinct from one another? If the resistance bonus is too powerful, relative to the local rep bonus, it seems logical to me to increase the local rep bonus.
Instead of thinking "I don't want to use my local rep ship because the resistance bonus ship is too strong." Think, "I don't want to use my local rep ship because the local rep is too weak."
I think the usual answer to this question is that, if they increase the local rep bonus by much more, then local reps are completely underwhelming on ships without a tanking bonus. They want you to use racial weapons, so they give massive bonuses to racial weapons on ships. On the other hand, they want everyone to consider using active-rep fits, so they can't make the rep bonuses so high that you use reps if and only if your ship has a bonus to it. (... even leaving aside the other problems with local reps in larger fleets that people have brought up...) |

Lechert
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:13:00 -
[112] - Quote
I agree with 5% resistances per level being quite strong right now, but I don't believe EVERY ship with the bonus needs to be whacked with a nerfbat.
I think this change needs to be less broad and the devs need to use more discretion when working out what ships are deserving of it before making sweeping changes. |

Lithorn
The Dark Tribe
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:13:00 -
[113] - Quote
SomeoneStrange wrote:Gotta admit, Fozzie's math and logic here makes sense. While I feel that some ships with the 5% resist bonus (Abaddon) are currently very well balanced, I also agree that these bonuses seem more powerful, and more flexible, than most others.
I feel like some of the ships seeing reduced resistances (HICTORS especially) will need some kind of small boost to their other stats in order to remain competitive with their peers.
Agree on the Hictors, since they are easily countered and easily killed with the bubble gen active (no beneficial remote effects for those who don't understand that). This is just going to force you Devs to go back and re-do various balancing AGAIN that you already validated IMO, there are plenty of aspects of Eve i'm sure don't really get that much attention due to the vastness of Eve and its code-base.
(Hictors, HINT HINT give us some capacitor help ;) ) |

Alexander McKeon
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:16:00 -
[114] - Quote
I see three possible balance problems with this change, though I generally support it.
1. A good portion of your argument for the strength of resist bonuses is the magnification of remote repair bonuses, which don't apply to HICs, which may mean these craft need some form of countervailing buff to compensate for reduced resistances.
2. If and when off-grid boosting is addressed, we'll see a lot more command ships mixed in with fleets, and they'll need every bit of tank they can possibly get as they're transferred from a nice safe position to a very vulnerable one.
3. Lower resist bonuses could make dreadnought blapping an even more effective / dangerous tactic, and I do hope that this form of combat is included in your tests. |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3939
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:17:00 -
[115] - Quote
Quote:GÇóConverting the resist bonuses to HP buffer bonuses would be much easier to balance as it affects a smaller set of mechanics, but that also removes what I think are a very iconic set of bonuses. The fact that the resistance bonus is so versatile is something we like about it, it's just the fact that it is so good at so many things that causes it to overshadow other bonuses. We also plan to continue using straight HP bonuses in the future as a defensive bonus with its own flavour distinct from the other defensive bonus options.
I am very, very pleased that there are plans to further utilize the straight HP bonus in the future, for some reason I have always been fond of it.
I realize that you don't want to replace resistance bonuses with HP bonuses due to being not only iconic, but also there would be a huge amount of teeth gnashing if this were done. However (teeth gnashing aside) if you did do this you could leave resistance bonuses available to the T2 ships (preserveing some of their iconic value) has they are a bit of a hallmark of the tough T2 (and T3) hulls. You could scale it down to 4% if necessary, but it would clearly divide T1 ships between those that favor active repping with buffer tanking.
Don't get me wrong, I feel you have an excellent handle on things and this will likely work with some individual tweaking, but the swap I suggested seems to me to be very simple, intuitive, and preserves the variety of tanking available in a logical manner. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
681
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:25:00 -
[116] - Quote
Would you consider not changing the resist bonus or immediately buffing the tank on the devoter, broadsword, phobos and onyx to compensate for this change?
The literal reason they are useful is because of their heavy, heavy tank, and taking away from that is taking away from the very function of those ships.
I also think the faction battleships (rattler, scorp navy issue) should retain the heavier bonus or have buffs to compensate.
Could also do for a buff on the merlin, punisher, vengeance, malediction, moa, and harpy to compensate for the resist nerf on it. |

Van Mathias
Dead Space Collective
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:29:00 -
[117] - Quote
Another idea might be to nerf the Invulns/ Omni resist mods themselves by 5% each (excluding dead and officer mods). This would accomplish the exact same effect, even moreso when stacking invulns, while keeping the iconic hull bonus intact and not screwing those who took the time to train to BS 5 over. It would also probably be a lot easier to implement than changing the stats of 40 ships, and testing it all.
In short, hull nerf no, mod nerf yes. Post your advanced battleship ideas here! |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2011
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:29:00 -
[118] - Quote
BiggestT wrote:Luc Chastot wrote:1. Why do you think Maels are popular? It's not because of their amazing tank or overwhelming dps. 2. "Passive EHP bonus", a.k.a. "buffer". Nobody is talking about passive regeneration (except you). 3. No, it's not moot. Resistance modules ADD to an already extremely good bonus. 4. Sure, nerf the modules so every other ship will be even worse compared to resist bonuses ships. Excellent idea! Also, you will have to read the forums more often. 5. It is a good start, but active tanking bonuses are still useless in fleets. 1. Um because they are. Hint: I'm not talking about fleet blobs (small scale = better tank and better dps, yet it's still okay as a fleet bs with higher alpha). 2. And? That's the idea of the bonus, you rep less but get more of a buffer, how is this an issue for the rokh? And when I talk about shield: passive tank essentially equals buffer tank, and no, no one brings a passive tanked cal BS to pvp EXCEPT in blolbs. 3.Damage/rof mods ADD to an already extremely good bonus. I can play that game too. 4.Nerfing a couple of modules is far less of an impact thant nerfing 44 ships that didn't need nerfing. RR BS fleets are much rarer than say 44 DIFFERENT SHIPS. 5.And they alsways will be. Fleets are buffer, small scale pvp is active, why can't we have both?? It's not like the rokh can do much else.
Resists bonuses have been out of whack with the other ship tanking bonuses for quite a long time.... These changes are very good...
3.) And to be frank, if you compare the rep ability of two ships, one with a 7.5% Rep bonus, and one with a 5% resist bonus... The Resist bonus occassionally outperforms the Rep bonus when local repping because the resist bonus doesn't stack with resist modules. Additionally, the resist bonus is viable for buffer tanking, remote rep tanking, as well as local rep tanking... It's an AMAZINGLY powerful bonus... and frankly, it's extremely hard for other ships to compete.
5.) Not all ships should be amazing solo ships.... And active tanking is NOT as common, even in solo/small gang PvP, as you make it out to be. For every case of an active tanked ship used in small gang/solo PvP, I can often point to two other ships in the same class that utilize buffer tanks instead!
|

Strata Maslav
Born-2-Kill 0utNumbered
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:31:00 -
[119] - Quote
I am happy with this nerf to resists, because even though many of my ships are going to take a hit from this I understand that this is a problem.
The negative reaction here is because people are emotionally invested in their ships. They fly and enjoy these ships because they are strong. Nerfing this bonus should make other ships more viable options.
My only concern is PVE which seems balanced around the use of specific ships (high resist) and the content may be less accessible with this change. |

WInter Borne
Cold Station 12 Surely You're Joking
61
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:32:00 -
[120] - Quote
Looking at this purely from a wspace point of view, the resist changes are going to have an interesting impact on the Archon and the Chimera. When was the last time you saw triage thanatos's and nidhoggurs used in pvp for anything but bait?
The Chimera, even with the same resist bonus has a difficult time matching the sustained tank of the archon, and even then you have to use a disproportionate amount of faction/deadspace mods.
When you add in the fact that most wspace fleets are almost exclusively t3's with high average dps, even triage carriers have cause for concern, and that's before the first Bhaalgorn arrives.
I'm glad that CCP is finally attempting to address the power creep in the game, but at the same time I cant bring myself to support the resist changes to the carriers. The slowcat doctrines in null are hard to break, but it is doable if you bring the right tools. I just dont want to see triage become a death sentence again.
Also, nerf pulsars! |
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