No but they go faster than standard speed when fit with a cloak. Means they were designed to do exactly that type of warp.

OK so far arguments against are.

1. We want to be able to avoid gatecampers and not have to pvp when busted wandering into a trap.
2. This mechanic is old and part of this (evolving sandbox) game and shouldn't be changed.

Really?

Then don't do it. I find it rather pathetic that you whine about it, but do it just the same.

1. Evading a gate camp is PvP.
2. If ain't broke don't fix it...or at least make sure that your fix includes a way to accomplish 1 with some chance of success.

So yeah, really.

It is broken. People can dodge gatecamps with battleships that only have a mwd and a cloak fit.

It is broken. People can dodge gatecamps with battleships that only have a mwd and a cloak fit.

1. We want to be able to avoid gatecampers and not have to pvp when busted wandering into a trap.

PVP = Player vs Player
Killing indy ships is still PVP. If people can't learn how to survive and be cautious with their indy ships then that is their fault.
And yes, even though it is off topic a bit. I find popping indies and PVE ships fun and rewarding. I get the loot, they go home in a pod or less.

Rune,

Lets have a thought experiment and I'd like an honest answer from you not just some of the typical smack that passes for awesome posting on these forums....

Lets assume your suggestion is followed through on. How can a guy get his indy ship through a gate camp safely. You say it is their fault, so how would they set up their ship? Please, don't take the obvious lazy way out and say fly a blockade runner. You are implying in your above response there is some sort of method of escaping/avoiding the gate camp. What is it?

Okay, let me help you here Rune....

Lets consider another situation that often rears its ugly head on this sub-forum. AFK cloaking.

Many "null bears" off come here and whine about some jerk AFK cloaked in their preferred ratting system. They often suggest various solutions. See this thread for some examples.

But the real issue is that one "broken mechanic" is fixing another "broken mechanic". Local gives very good intel to the null bears. So good in fact that if they are:

1. Watching local,
2. Watching intel channels,
3. Flying their PvE ship correctly.

They will never, ever get caught by a roaming ship or ships (BTW, this is why Bots are almost never caught, the computer with a good bot program will always do 1-3 ever second it is active). Ever. So roaming gangs have to hope for a dope who is not doing 1-3 to try and catch some prey, or run into another roaming gang that they have a chance at killing.

So AFK cloaking. It uses the awesome intel capabilities of local to its advantage in denying resources to the "null bears". It can on occasion lul some "null bears" into a false sense of complacency leading to kills.

It is like this simple math problem: -1*(-1) = 1. Two negatives making a positive...or in this case, two dubious mechanics counter acting each other to some extent.

Others in this thread are saying the same thing about the MWD + cloak trick. You are failing miserably in this thread because you aren't engaging their arguments. You are simply complaining that something should be fixed entirely in your favor. That is not fixing a broken mechanic it is removing a broken mechanic and replacing it with another.

So, raise your level of argumentation and come up with a solution that just wont get you easy peasy kills. That will never ever be followed through on. Ever.

And I don't mean an insult by calling players "null bears" almost all PvP pilots do some form of carebearing so they can keep replacing ships. It isn't a bad thing at all.

rofl , that only speaks about your gatecamp , how it is so badly put togeather

strangly when we gate camp we always have some ceptor to tackle /decloak,
oh no you only want to use your pvp tornado , i see....

AFK camping a system is a totally different issue.
This thread is about the MWD + cloak exploit.

AFK camping a system is a totally different issue.
This thread is about the MWD + cloak exploit.

Scout your way through. Use EWAR modules. I have had some people with ecm bursts get away. Burn back to gate and jump through. Outrun them or fight back (I am not just talking about indies, this is far more common on guys doing PVE)
If you end up getting trapped at a gate by someone hunting you, simply having a cloak and a prop mod fit should not be an automatic escape.

he was using it as an comparable example, neither are a real issue but both are considered an issue.

So I should discuss an off topic post and get my thread closed because it is something people also complain about? No thanks. Simply trying to use another thing people regularly want changed that doesn't as a reason to not change something is kinda pathetic.

So I should discuss an off topic post and get my thread closed because it is something people also complain about? No thanks. Simply trying to use another thing people regularly want changed that doesn't as a reason to not change something is kinda pathetic.

Scout your way through. Use EWAR modules. I have had some people with ecm bursts get away. Burn back to gate and jump through. Outrun them or fight back (I am not just talking about indies, this is far more common on guys doing PVE)
If you end up getting trapped at a gate by someone hunting you, simply having a cloak and a prop mod fit should not be an automatic escape.

Scouting requires an alt, or having someone else jump ahead of you in a covops just so you personally can move around.

EWAR modules are not a counter by any stretch of the imagination. If all of the gatecampers with points happen to facehug you and be in ECM burst range, ~and~ you get spectacularly lucky, then ECM burst can be a counter. Otherwise, there is no ewar module that will help you here.

Camps can have things like sensor boosted arazus/rapiers which cannot be outrun by anything, ever, since they will web/scram you as soon as you decloak.

And, as said before, cloak/MWD is not an automatic escape. It is not all that hard for a competent gatecamp to counter it, you just refuse to.

EWAR isn't that reliable on a non-ewar boat and industrials are too squishy (at least the iterons) so that this isn't very good--i.e. most industrials will simply die.

As for an alt, that is good. Here is what I'd do. I'd use the two week free trial to create an alt, he'd jump in a velator see if the system is clear. If not, I'd dock up and check later. In the end you'd get lots of velator kills but not my industrial. And in two weeks I start a new freebie account. I'm sure CCP would love that.

As for outrunning and fighting back, that is not really viable is it. Not in an industrial and not even in a battleship unless you are fitting it with really awesome modules. And even then you can still get killed an lose those awesome modules.

And it is NOT an automatic escape. You yourself have said this, so stop using this term.

Another question: If this MWD + cloak trick were removed, but a new mechanic was put into place that gave industrials a 50-50 chance of evading your camp would you still be here whining?

99% of people doing it escape from me when I am out solo. There should not be such a perfect and easy way to escape like that. Yes, scouting is pretty much the preferred method. It does not require an alt, a friend will do. This is an MMO after all.

Yes it is hard, not so easily countered as you keep claiming. 99% of people doing it escape from me when I am out solo. There should not be such a perfect and easy way to escape like that. Yes, scouting is pretty much the preferred method. It does not require an alt, a friend will do. This is an MMO after all. It requires some planning to not get caught. 2 toons can allow a person to dodge a 50 man fleet. And you are also talking about a large gatecamp swarming a solo guy. I am not.

Gatecampers typically get into ECM burst range trying to bump a person away from the gate. If they aren't moving it is because they are lazy gamers that sit immobile in large fleets killing things. Blobs are an issue in any event. Not the one I am discussing. Large gatecamps are going to kill you. End of story. If 60 people are trying to kill you solo they should be able to.

Good thing hardly anyone considers this a problem or wants it changed then. What other reasons to not change are required?

Why do you think that you should be able to interdict a gate and stop anyone from coming through by yourself? You yourself said that this is an MMO. Why should the onus be on the target to use friends to move safely through lowsec, but there is no such onus on the camper to have friends if he wants to capture ships specifically-fit to evade camps?

Further, if you're solo camping, then crashing the gate or just burning away is probably a more reliable way of escaping camps than cloak + MWD trick. Cloak + MWD only becomes exceptionally useful against larger camps.

If they have the MWD & cloak why would they need to burn back to gate. And why shouldn't I be able to solo interdict a gate against another ship. If we can't then there is no non consensual pvp in eve. I may not get a kill and alot of people escape some of the shenanigans I pull. I do however want the chance to try.

I do use alts and friends to find targets and scout myself around to make sure the target is not a trap. This game is a pvp one. If I trap you I should be rewarded with at least a bit of a fight or chase. As it stands anyone with a mwd + cloak can escape without doing anything other than aligning touching 2 mods and then decloaking while having the mouse button over the warp icon. Too easy. I can't think of any other glaring issues with modules breaking pvp more than this one.

Oh the irony.

-If they have a cloak + MWD they don't have to burn back to gate, but in either case they evade your camp and you lose.
-Just because some people are able to use proper fitting and tactics to avoid a gatecamp does not mean that there is no non-consensual PVP in EVE, it means that you tried to shoot at someone and they evaded you. You get a chance to try, you just failed to decloak them and thus missed your chance.




Someone jumping into a camp does not make them trapped. You trap them when you scram them, and no sooner. It would be more correct to say that you are trying to trap people, and failed at it.
You still haven't explained why it's reasonable to expect other people to have alts/friends to scout for them, but it's not reasonable for you to have alts/friends to decloak cloak + MWDers.

There should not be a way to perfectly counter gatecamps

Yes. A friend can tell you that there is someone sitting on the other side of the gate. How is that ironic? You think that I should not be able to 1v1 someone that jumps into me simply because I am alone?