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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
124
   |
Posted - 2013.04.15 00:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
Rune Scorpio wrote:I see you have no concept of how lowsec works. Interceptors get instapopped by gateguns. Also large gatecamps are not the issue here, as I have previously stated they easily decloak things. The small camps however, with 1-4 people have a very slim chance to catch them as there is little coverage around the gate.
bumping a ship does not generate aggro.
the only "cost" to your camp is if doing the usual x-way split is that inty pilot whether or not he finds any cloakies gets paid for his time on the gate parties. you pop 5 non cloakies, he gets paid even though he did "nothing" the whole time on gate if no cloakies roll through or he can't find them.
PIck your poison here really. Even the most elitist 20 mil sp or you suck 0.0 types go okay low sp noob, strap into an inty and go play bumper cars to be of some use. No low sp noob in inty, fish get away or they trade in thier uber hac/recon for a "lowly" frigate.
Or don't run the inty, and keep on getting what you are getting really. Your x-man crew has its x-way split for everyone on the killmails. And you jsut have to accept some fish are getting away really. |
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 01:00:00 -
[62] - Quote
This is not a problem with a mwd cloak trick with ships that can't warp off. Only blockade runners are the types of transports that can almost insta warp while cloaked and don't need to use a mwd in lowsec to get away. Their align time is too fast for you to lock them unless you have 3000 scan res and they don't have a row of warp core stabs in their lows. Even if you could point a deep space transport you need a faction scrambler with 3 points to stop them from warping because they have build in dual warp core stabs. Most people actually fit 2 more on them. You need a insta lock hic to solo a deep space transport most of the time in lowsec or bump it real hard or it will just warp away. There is a way people catch sb's in 0.0 and other cloaky ships by aligning and mwding to them just as they put a bubble up and even with the mwd cloak trick a sb can't get away unless they turn away again or the interdictor will just bump into the sb even if they cloaked 5km away and ended up 20km away at the edge of the bubble. The real problem is there is a delay with the game and it says target is inv.... even if you lock them up. If they can warp before 2 secs then you can't lock them. The game thinks they are already in warp when you first see them decloak to align. If their ship can align and warp within 2 secs then they can't be touched. |
Qulticaret Pic
Hellion Support Services
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 01:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
I wonder Rune, how long will you maintain a whine thread that only you are for? The mwd cloak trick is not a sure escape, if a camper has a high enough sensor strength they can easily insta lock anyone transiting the gate, I've lost a transport ship to a solo camper before so it is posible, there is always a moment between when you start to move and you get your cloak up. This is Eve, get a better ship, get some implants, inject a booster, get a booster alt, or... ya know... get some friends... it is a MMO after all |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
2020
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 01:27:00 -
[64] - Quote
Rune Scorpio wrote:OK so far arguments against are.
1. We want to be able to avoid gatecampers and not have to pvp when busted wandering into a trap.
2. This mechanic is old and part of this (evolving sandbox) game and shouldn't be changed.
Really?
Its simply a matter of counters: You're trying to catch them, and they are trying to avoid you.
A MWD+Cloak utiltize two slots (admittedly the MWD is pretty standard on most ships), come with a host of drawbacks, require careful execution to work, and can still be countered.
So, what exactly is the problem?
How to counter? The MWD takes 10 seconds to cycle... a fast ship (like an daredevil), and power out to them to decloak them.
It's harder to catch people in lowsec.... which is what makes it "safer" than nullsec. Why are your options "unbalanced"? Why does this need to be changed? |
Dato Koppla
Rage of Inferno
Malefic Motives
142
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 01:44:00 -
[65] - Quote
OP, I hope you realize how fail what you're requesting is, you say you want more pvp, but what you want is to gank ships that stand no chance, by removing the MWD + Cloak trick (which I admit isn't perfect), none of these ships are going to come to low sec, so you'll actually end up getting less pvp.
You don't need a massive gate camp to catch these ships, litter the gate with drones and have a dedicated fast ship burn toward the them when they flicker on the overview and you standa a decent chance of decloaking them. Not to mention ships like T1 haulers and even exploration ships have to sacrifice quite alot to fit a cloak + mwd that isn't much use to them outside the MWD + Cloak trick. |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
Bright Side of Death
81
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 01:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
Please fix MWD+cloack trick, we can't pvp |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
725
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 01:56:00 -
[67] - Quote
Quote:
A gate i typically around 2-3km wide and the spawn range is usually 13-15 k from 0 on the gate. If I am sitting at 0 on a gate to maximize my chances of decloaking or bumping a person away from gate how can a cruiser or bc clear 13-15 k in 10 seconds?
A cruiser with an OH'd MWD can go at least 2.5 km/s, and then you don't need to get exactly on top of someone to decloak them - only within 2km. Further, you don't have to sit at zero on the gate if you accept the fact that you will not catch every cloak + MWDer (nor should you) in a solo cruiser. Instead, you could sit a few km off in one direction giving you a significantly higher chance of catching those that come out on your side and accepting the loss of those who don't.
Quote:The issue is that there isn't even a lock chance. They are nerfing the tier 3 bc's agility because they can attain warp before another bc can even lock them when nano'd and outrun almost anything that isn't a frigate.
Because high agility is useful in every situation, combat and non-combat situations included, and doesn't require any effort on the part of the pilot to use. Cloak + MWD is specifically useful in exactly one situation and requires specifically fitting your ship for that purpose.
Quote:This trick allows any ship to attain warp without even allowing the other ships to have a chance at locking them. This screams broken. This is a pvp game after all.
Ships have a chance to lock them, they just need to be decloaked first, which is very possible.
Also, I have repeated the following point at least three times by now and every time you have ignored it.
They are not evading PVP by avoiding you. By jumping into lowsec and competing against you in some way, they are participating in PVP. They evaded you successfully when you were trying to kill them, which means that you were both engaged in PVP and they won.
Quote:Why should there be an easy out to gatecamps? It makes no sense. If you jump into it you should get caught and have think your way through.
If you get scrammed and webbed on the gate, there is no more thinking to do other than guesstimating how long it will take you to die.
Cloak + MWD does involve thinking your way through, it's just thinking that happens when you fit out your ship and plan your trip.
Quote:Blockade runners were designed to cloak and haul, getting people through gatecamps and are pretty effective. Covert ops get people around quickly and safely. Why does a pair of basic modules in eve allow every ship in the game to attain the same level of protection?
A prowler will align and warp in 5.15 seconds (rather than 10) and will remain cloaked until he lands on an outbound gate or decloaks from the gate - a BR is more or less invulnerable, save for bouts of extreme bad luck, to being decloaked and pointed on a gate whereas a cloak + MWDer is not. Further, a BR can haul effectively in nullsec. Also, BRs are dedicated hauling ships. T1 indies can't effectively pull of cloak + MWD, and DSTs can with great difficulty and a ton of work (due to their huge mass reducing the speed gain from MWD).
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
99
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 02:01:00 -
[68] - Quote
Rune Scorpio wrote:
Like what a module that has a 50% chance of teleporting you to highsec? And yes if I am solo camping a gate waiting for someone I know is coming to me, if they do a mwd cloak trick it is 99.99% going to be an escape. The only way they don't get away is if they fail and double click their cloak, or they end up decloaking VERY close to me. Chances are they do not
Once again stop assuming industrials. An industrial will not and should not hold up against a 1v1 pvp ship. Thisexploit is far more commonly seen on battlecruisers and PVE hacs. It also just happens to work on every ship in eve that isn't a capital.
Are you just arguing for the sake of argument?
Oh FFS, do you need me to hold it for you when you take a leak too?
You want to nerf MWD + cloak trick. Come up with an alternate that allows for a reasonable chance of evading a gate camp. Asking me to do it for you is the lazy approach.
The mwd + cloak is very effective against a solo camper...sorry. BTW a badger mrk II with 4 multi-spectral jammers would have a slightly better than 50-50 chance of getting away (no cloak or mwd) or at least jamming you for a cycle.
As for assuming industrials, go back to the first page. That is where you whined about the industrials you ike killing and whose loot you liked scooping. Pardon the f*** out of me for reading you posts.
Really, you are failing over and over. If you are going to remove a broken mechanic given it is a counter for another broken mechanic you need to fix both. |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
80
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 05:51:00 -
[69] - Quote
Why do I agree with this that no fix is needed... I usualy don't agree with anything thats pvp  |
Absolon Echerie
Gulag Industries
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 06:59:00 -
[70] - Quote
Rune Scorpio wrote:OK so far arguments against are.
1. We want to be able to avoid gatecampers and not have to pvp when busted wandering into a trap.
2. This mechanic is old and part of this (evolving sandbox) game and shouldn't be changed.
Really?
because where is the fun in landing in a gate camp in a NON-PVP ship?
sure if you want pvp, like you do you can just go jump around looking for gate camps and fight them. not everyone wants that.
now i do agree that the MWD-Cloak thing seems a bit weird... but if CCP would "fix" it, i hope they also "fix" gate guns to do damage in line with concord (aka insta-pop) just to compensate for not being able to escape a gate camp anymore.
This would however impact null sec, perhaps in a way people would not like.
now you can say the cloak+mwd trick is broken, well the same can be said for getting gate-camped in for example a PVE fitted ship? since you will not be able to beat someone who is properly fit for PVP. So, if you want to PVP, go PVP.. don't go play whack-a-mole and whine if someone evades you by using a mechanic. Or maybe you don't have the PVP skills to kill someone in a fair fight? (the reason i don't pvp) |
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
185
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 07:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
Rune Scorpio wrote:If people can't learn how to survive and be cautious with their indy ships then that is their fault.
They have learnt how to survive, which is exactly what you are here crying about...
... |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
The Omega Industries
298
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 07:30:00 -
[72] - Quote
Rune Scorpio wrote: I'm upset that I can't catch anything in lowsec when I don't have enough people in my fleet and we're all just a little bit useless
I love reading people whining and demanding CCP change the game to fit what they want rather than them adapting themselves to be able to do what they want to with the current mechanics.
It shows a lack of imagination.
What you're talking about isn't pvp. You're talking about ganking people who can't fight back and you seriously want to take away any chance they have of evading you. Lol. Sounds like you should be playing a one player game. |
Felsusguy
Archimedes RD Company
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 09:45:00 -
[73] - Quote
First I saw threads about removing AFK cloaking, then I saw threads about warp core stabilizers being removed, now I'm seeing threads about nerfing evasive cloaking. Wonderful. Just wonderful. Whenever someone tries to avoid direct combat, all the idiots who have some inane desire to kill defenseless ships complain that it isn't fair.
We have people making ships to blow other ships up, but you don't hear people complaining that ships shouldn't be able to blow you up even though you made the ship specifically for blowing things up. And of course, we have ships designed to avoid direct combat and constantly we hear complaining that they shouldn't be able to avoid combat even when they make ships designed to avoid combat.
How droll. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Tribal Band
439
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 09:49:00 -
[74] - Quote
If you could catch expensive ships easily, nobody would fly them around you.
Welcome to EVE. It is a boring game.
Mittani, where have you gone to? I miss you :( |
Luke Hammarskjold
Seventh Heaven's Retinue
Dominatus Atrum Mortis
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 10:15:00 -
[75] - Quote
Lol, didnt read something so amusing in the last month. I suggest getting some friends to help you with the camp. And believe me, if they would cancle the mwd+cloak trick, low sec would be a much lonlier place and you would have even less targets... Learn to play properly your prefered style instead of whining about what is wrong. Im a carebare and believe me, a properly made gate camp can nor be counterd. Of course a bunch of wheenies shouldnt be able to camp a gate effectively. |
Apostrof Ahashion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
96
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 10:57:00 -
[76] - Quote
So, you want to gank non-combat vessels at gates but cant organize a semi decent camp so you came here to whine about their only defense mechanism. |
Alt Two
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 10:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
Dear CCP,
I want to win without actually doing anything. I currently can't do that.
Please fix.
Regards,
Bad gate camper. |
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations
Shockwave Sovereign Industries
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 13:31:00 -
[78] - Quote
Rune Scorpio wrote:OK so far arguments against are.
1. We want to be able to avoid gatecampers and not have to pvp when busted wandering into a trap.
2. This mechanic is old and part of this (evolving sandbox) game and shouldn't be changed.
Really?
Yes, really. |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
597
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 13:32:00 -
[79] - Quote
More bad posts by bad players asking CCP to rig the game in their favor. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
2346
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 18:07:00 -
[80] - Quote
Confirming OP sucks at PvP and not only expects us to care, but for CCP to fix it
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
137
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 18:55:00 -
[81] - Quote
PvP carebear complaining that blowing up industrials outside of high sec is too hard. |
Rune Scorpio
Xion Limited
Primal Force
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 02:00:00 -
[82] - Quote
Alxea wrote:This is not a problem with a mwd cloak trick with ships that can't warp off. Only blockade runners are the types of transports that can almost insta warp while cloaked and don't need to use a mwd in lowsec to get away. Their align time is too fast for you to lock them unless you have 3000 scan res and they don't have a row of warp core stabs in their lows. Even if you could point a deep space transport you need a faction scrambler with 3 points to stop them from warping because they have build in dual warp core stabs. Most people actually fit 2 more on them. You need a insta lock hic to solo a deep space transport most of the time in lowsec or bump it real hard or it will just warp away. There is a way people catch sb's in 0.0 and other cloaky ships by aligning and mwding to them just as they put a bubble up and even with the mwd cloak trick a sb can't get away unless they turn away again or the interdictor will just bump into the sb even if they cloaked 5km away and ended up 20km away at the edge of the bubble. The real problem is there is a delay with the game and it says target is inv.... even if you lock them up. If they can warp before 2 secs then you can't lock them. The game thinks they are already in warp when you first see them decloak to align. If their ship can align and warp within 2 secs then they can't be touched.
This is not null. Thanks for posting. |
Rune Scorpio
Xion Limited
Primal Force
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 02:01:00 -
[83] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Rune Scorpio wrote:
Like what a module that has a 50% chance of teleporting you to highsec? And yes if I am solo camping a gate waiting for someone I know is coming to me, if they do a mwd cloak trick it is 99.99% going to be an escape. The only way they don't get away is if they fail and double click their cloak, or they end up decloaking VERY close to me. Chances are they do not
Once again stop assuming industrials. An industrial will not and should not hold up against a 1v1 pvp ship. Thisexploit is far more commonly seen on battlecruisers and PVE hacs. It also just happens to work on every ship in eve that isn't a capital.
Are you just arguing for the sake of argument?
Oh FFS, do you need me to hold it for you when you take a leak too? You want to nerf MWD + cloak trick. Come up with an alternate that allows for a reasonable chance of evading a gate camp. Asking me to do it for you is the lazy approach. The mwd + cloak is very effective against a solo camper...sorry. BTW a badger mrk II with 4 multi-spectral jammers would have a slightly better than 50-50 chance of getting away (no cloak or mwd) or at least jamming you for a cycle. As for assuming industrials, go back to the first page. That is where you whined about the industrials you liked killing and whose loot you liked scooping. Pardon the f*** out of me for reading you posts. Really, you are failing over and over. If you are going to remove a broken mechanic given it is a counter for another broken mechanic you need to fix both.
I'm sorry. How dare I try and make it possible to stop the you from carebearing all day in quiet lowsec systems with impunity.
Forgot why these forums are a waste of time.
|
Rune Scorpio
Xion Limited
Primal Force
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 02:04:00 -
[84] - Quote
Qulticaret Pic wrote:I wonder Rune, how long will you maintain a whine thread that only you are for? The mwd cloak trick is not a sure escape, if a camper has a high enough sensor strength they can easily insta lock anyone transiting the gate, I've lost a transport ship to a solo camper before so it is posible, there is always a moment between when you start to move and you get your cloak up. This is Eve, get a better ship, get some implants, inject a booster, get a booster alt, or... ya know... get some friends... it is a MMO after all
TBH so far all I have seen is a pile of carebears crying that this would remove their only safety net. You know actually having a strategy that goes beyond a cheap trick like this is too hard for strategy gamers to grasp apparently. |
DataRunner Attor
Independent Confederacy of Worlds
126
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 02:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
Rune Scorpio wrote:Qulticaret Pic wrote:I wonder Rune, how long will you maintain a whine thread that only you are for? The mwd cloak trick is not a sure escape, if a camper has a high enough sensor strength they can easily insta lock anyone transiting the gate, I've lost a transport ship to a solo camper before so it is posible, there is always a moment between when you start to move and you get your cloak up. This is Eve, get a better ship, get some implants, inject a booster, get a booster alt, or... ya know... get some friends... it is a MMO after all TBH so far all I have seen is a pile of carebears crying that this would remove their only safety net. You know actually having a strategy that goes beyond a cheap trick like this is too hard for strategy gamers to grasp apparently.
and all we've seen from you, is a gankbear crying cause he doesn't know how to counter. But I guess that's okay to.
GÇ£Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.GÇ¥ |
Zappity
Kurved Space
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 04:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
This is not about PvP. It is about gate camp revenue.
1. Want PvP in lowsec? Plenty of FW plexes around.
2. If your idea was implemented you would get great ganking numbers for about a day and then bugger all ever again. Lowsec traffic would just stop.
Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
629
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 05:51:00 -
[87] - Quote
Posting in yet another "give me easy kills of unarmed ships" thread!
You gatecampers are upset because you killed everything that moved which, subsequently, caused people to either not venture into low sec or, figured out ways to get past your camps? You're upset because other players (gasp) got smart and adapted?
Oh, the horror!
What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 06:08:00 -
[88] - Quote
Rune Scorpio wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Rune Scorpio wrote:
Like what a module that has a 50% chance of teleporting you to highsec? And yes if I am solo camping a gate waiting for someone I know is coming to me, if they do a mwd cloak trick it is 99.99% going to be an escape. The only way they don't get away is if they fail and double click their cloak, or they end up decloaking VERY close to me. Chances are they do not
Once again stop assuming industrials. An industrial will not and should not hold up against a 1v1 pvp ship. Thisexploit is far more commonly seen on battlecruisers and PVE hacs. It also just happens to work on every ship in eve that isn't a capital.
Are you just arguing for the sake of argument?
Oh FFS, do you need me to hold it for you when you take a leak too? You want to nerf MWD + cloak trick. Come up with an alternate that allows for a reasonable chance of evading a gate camp. Asking me to do it for you is the lazy approach. The mwd + cloak is very effective against a solo camper...sorry. BTW a badger mrk II with 4 multi-spectral jammers would have a slightly better than 50-50 chance of getting away (no cloak or mwd) or at least jamming you for a cycle. As for assuming industrials, go back to the first page. That is where you whined about the industrials you liked killing and whose loot you liked scooping. Pardon the f*** out of me for reading you posts. Really, you are failing over and over. If you are going to remove a broken mechanic given it is a counter for another broken mechanic you need to fix both. I'm sorry. How dare I try and make it possible to stop the you from carebearing all day in quiet lowsec systems with impunity. Forgot why these forums are a waste of time.
I don't carebear in low sec. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
77
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 06:10:00 -
[89] - Quote
Good lord, and they say PVErs cry a lot. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
The Omega Industries
300
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 06:33:00 -
[90] - Quote
Rune Scorpio wrote:TBH so far all I have seen is a unanimous disagreement with my whining demands to make gatecamping easy for even the most dumbass of gatecampers. You know actually fighting combat ships is too hard for whiney gamers like me to grasp apparently.
Fixed that for you. |
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