Come winter expension, every 0 sec alliance starts to build gates,

From what i see the point of it is to make them produce stuff in null, and the lack of trit/scord was the "problem".

Guess CCP agreed that low-end mining was too profitable.

Im not much of a miner. But what exactly am I seeing here?

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/resource-companion-blog

It's looks to me like they're adding huge amounts of trit and pyreite to all the high end ore.

Someone explain how this will affect ore prices.

Build what gates? Stargates? Dafuq is this?

that's a buff and a half!

THE ABC'S HAVE BECOME SUPERVELD'S & SUPER SCORDS!!!

Yes EVE Colonization will feature the ability for sov holders to build stargates.

Could you link or cut paste the article on this...cant view most of the eve news on work computer.

Hisec miners can kiss their income goodbye, and Spod will return to being the least valuable ore in the game (adding 10k of something worth 0 ISK means you are reducing the value of that ore).

Good job, CCP. I though you were past the sledge-hammer-instead-of-a-scalpel approach to rebalancing?

THE ABC'S HAVE BECOME SUPERVELD'S & SUPER SCORDS!!!

Hisec miners can kiss their income goodbye

This can only be a good thing.

Can't run a company with no income.

Hey will this effect wh space? it's technically 0.0 right?

Prices will go down. I guess by at least 50% for Trit and pyer. Maybe even much more.

Overall mineral prices will go down, prices drop, isk devalues, Plex prices go up.

Come winter expension, every 0 sec alliance starts to build gates, mineral prices go up, plex prices normalise again.

It's the ore types themselves, so grav sites... oh wait...

E: Aren't grav sites being redone? If not, WHs should see this change.

no grav sites from exploration aren't being touched.
grav sites from sov upgrades are being turned in to anomolies, though.

THE ABC'S HAVE BECOME SUPERVELD'S & SUPER SCORDS!!!

no grav sites from exploration aren't being touched.
grav sites from sov upgrades are being turned in to anomolies, though.

We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their shipGÇÖs built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance.

10,000 trit from veldspar. 333m3 of ore
10,000 trit from spod. 4000m3 of ore.

trit obtained from 4000m3 of veldspar, 120,000

you're getting 12x the trit, from veldspar than you do spod.

also even at current prices, spod is already ahead of veldspar and a fall in trit prices only widens the gap due to spod's other mineral content.

Doesn't seem very ambiguous, and doesn't seem to distinguish between upgrades and exploration as you're claiming.

We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players.

The focus of our Ore Mining changes in Odyssey is on ensuring that there are viable and valuable mining opportunities for players in all areas of New Eden. We want mining in low security space to be an activity worthy of the risks taken, and for Nullsec empires to rely on miners and industrialists, welcoming them into their ranks. Creating a new home for these miners also provides opportunities for pilots interested in PVP, as mining is an activity that can be both disrupted and protected by small gangs of ships.

the first sentence


grav sites are grav sites
sov upgrades are hidden belts. hidden belts are just accessed in the same way grav sites are, currently.

This is not correct:
One batch of Spod (4,000 m3) refines into 71,000 trit >> /4,000 = 17.75 trit per m3
One batch of Veld (33.3 m3) refines into 1,000 trit >> / 33.3 = 30.03 trit per m3

Conclusion: Veldspar holds 1.69x more trit (30.03/17.75).
Since Spodumain is easier to mine (larger rocks) this will give a large (and much needed) buff to nullsec mining.

I'm probably just blind, but I don't see any changes to Jaspet/Hemorphite/Hedbergite in that blog, so how exactly does all this mix up make mining in low-sec "worthy of the risks taken"?

It's a good shake up, one that's been needed, but I'm not seeing the changes making any difference between 0.4 and 0.1

And then there's replacing grav sites which require exploration, as in time spent with probes out advertising that you're looking for something or someone, with anomalies which only require pressing a button (assuming you don't have the system scanner locked on perma-scan) then selecting warp-to.

This isn't just dumbing down the game, this is screwing over miners with ill-concieved poorly thought through changes.

Turn up to the Resource Rebalancing table to watch this balding middle aged guy go apoplectic with rage over his rocks being violated.

YOU TOUCHED MY ROCKS IN A VERY NOT NICE WAY!

Yeah, you're seriously confused. Hidden belts and grav sites are pretty clearly the same thing in that paragraph.

You would have to be daft to think that they're going to put in new ice belts (as anoms), convert upgrade-spawned sites to anoms, and leave exploration gravimetric sites as grav sigs, with the only indication being an extremely arbitrary bit of semantics that are functionally synonymous.

It quite clearly says, "We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category."

They're going away.

The part you don't like is actually the very best part of all.

Im not much of a miner. But what exactly am I seeing here?

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/resource-companion-blog

It's looks to me like they're adding huge amounts of trit and pyreite to all the high end ore.

Someone explain how this will affect ore prices.

hulk aligns and warps in just under 18 seconds. other exhumers, faster.

can you enter a system, scan it, warp to the anom, and tackle/light cyno within 18 seconds?

This basically kills mining in wormholes.

Right now, mining in WHs is only barely safe by virtue of your opponents needing to get probes out to find you, and an experienced prober can still find you with the probes only being visible on dscan for less than 30 seconds. But that still gives the victim--I mean, miner--a small chance to spot the probes and GTFO before it's too late.

With grav sites being anoms, you have only a few seconds' window to spot the attacker (if their incoming wh is within dscan range, the short period between wh cloak and true cloak), or no window at all.

The rest of the changes look good, but mining in WHs will become significantly more dangerous in Odyssey.

Since the scan seems to happen on session change, i'd guess yes, depending on the distance.

edit: in WHs, the miner wouldn't have any indication you're even there, unless the WH you enter is within dscan range.

can you enter a system, scan it, warp to the anom, and tackle/light cyno within 18 seconds?

now just think.

off grid boosting is removed.

here, you might need some tissues...

you guys are all posting #'s but what if they change the amount of ore required per refine?

that's what im curious about tbh is the amount of ore per refine going to stay the same or be changed.

i assume, as it's not in the numbers blog, that it's not changing.

yea but when do they add everything to the publics eye, there's always something stealthed into the game from time to time

4) Since a lot of miners use PLEX to fund lots of alts, and the decision to use these alts is largely based on number of hours of mining to buy a PLEX, IF mining profitability drops, either PLEX price will drop (meaning the same number of hour for me to fund my accounts) or miners will drop alts until mineral prices return to a more reasonable number of hours of mining to fund their accounts.

I don't know... If I was a bean counter at CCP, I would not want people to be dropping their alts and decreasing the bottom line. Surely that would mean lower budgets to do future expansions.

Another major area of focus for Odyssey is the composition of the ores found asteroid belts and mining sites across low and null security space. These changes are intended to spur nullsec entities to welcome more miners into their ranks, as well as provide adequate reward for those willing to brave the gameGÇÖs most dangerous mining fields.

As a high sec carebear, I only have one thing to say to CCP about these changes.

GOOD JOB!



But.... the value of my minerals will fall....
1) SO. If mineral prices fall much below the mission/mine equilibrium point, I'll go mission instead, just like I was doing when drone poo was driving down mineral prices.

2) Enough people do switch to mission running, prices will return to equilibrium.

3) 1 and 2 above, I just get bigger belts again, instead of the overmined, have to hunt for fat belts, that we have now.

4) Since a lot of miners use PLEX to fund lots of alts, and the decision to use these alts is largely based on number of hours of mining to buy a PLEX, IF mining profitability drops, either PLEX price will drop (meaning the same number of hour for me to fund my accounts) or miners will drop alts until mineral prices return to a more reasonable number of hours of mining to fund their accounts.


In a player driven market, prices will correct.

I'm exited for the changes although I'm not sure mining or any other easily discoverable ISK making will ever be profitable in low sec as there are enough of us bored PVPers who will kill any helpless ratters or miners no matter how many show up.

if there are so many board pvpers in low why kill helpless defenseless miners why not kill others
just asking before i get spamed to hell and back

Ah, thanks. So WHs should get these awesome changes in their sites.

if i understood the blog grave are being removed end of storie that mean in whs to

you didn't take into account the fact that more mining will be done in wh space to add to the market ?

wormholes seem to be the bastard child of eve no one likes to think about :) jk hahaha couldn't resist my on bad seance of humor

Adding tritanium and pyerite to the high-ends to produce super-ores means that mining operations in nullsec are forced to deal with large quantities of tritanium and pyerite, regardless of their purpose in mining. Are nullsec miners mining for supply or profit? Since nullsec miners are targeting specific hidden belts and complaining about Spodzilla, I suspect the answer is that they are mining for profit (i.e.: ISK/hr). Thus adding low end minerals will be hampering profitable mining simply due to the need to deal with surplus low end minerals.

What hampers nullsec industry right now is the lack of effective manufacturing capacity and the lack of effective refining capacity. Resolving these two issues will do far more to increase the demand for miners in nullsec than "super veldspar" or "super scordite".

if there are so many board pvpers in low why kill helpless defenseless miners why not kill others
just asking before i get spamed to hell and back

Long but very good stuff. read it above.

There's no global slot shortage - in fact there's a global oversupply, since most hi-sec slots are left unused.

(1) Due to the massive spodroids, the average value of the ore in a large site is horribly low, well under that of Scordite. They pay less than mining hi-sec ores in total, and that total figure is important because you have to clear the a site to get it to respawn. To fix this you need to make spod worth more, by adding something. The problem is so bad that those "for profit" miners are actually better off staying in hi-sec and mining the belts there than they were clearing sites.

(2) The large sites are hideously undersupplied with low-end minerals, by a factor of something insane, about 200:1 or something ridiculous like that (Dave Stark, help me out here! *shines the StarkSignalGäó). That lack of local supply of low-ends* has been one of the major chokes on enabling local 0.0 industry: to build anything in 0.0, you have to import a vast bulk of trit, pyer, and often mex too.

Since it's massively easier to move the high ends to where the low ends are (and then you have all the other advantages of hi-sec industry, but let's not go into that now), this acts as a big logistical disincentive to build anything in 0.0 that can be built in hi-sec.

(2) The large sites are hideously undersupplied with low-end minerals

I would expect miners to go out of their way to despawn low end sites to encourage more high end sites.

Gravimetric cosmic signatures are being replaced by anomalies, yes.
Which simply means you don't have to use probes to find them.

that's not how it works. when you exhaust a site, an identical one spawns.

(2) The large sites are hideously undersupplied with low-end minerals, by a factor of something insane, about 200:1 or something ridiculous like that (Dave Stark, help me out here! *shines the StarkSignalGäó)

Well there you go, learn a new thing every day :)

Why do people ignore the XL/giant sites?

i, uh, don't think i have a spreadsheet for that...

let me make one!

lower isk/m3 due to higher concentration of bad ores like gneiss/spod. (and those ores can't be skipped, unless you like waiting 4 days for it to respawn)

I'm probably just blind, but I don't see any changes to Jaspet/Hemorphite/Hedbergite in that blog, so how exactly does all this mix up make mining in low-sec "worthy of the risks taken"?

It's a good shake up, one that's been needed, but I'm not seeing the changes making any difference between 0.4 and 0.1

Jaspet, Hemorphite, and Hedbergite are fine. The problem is Pyroxeres. It makes Nocxium cheap, lowering the value of lowsec ores. Why mine in lowsec when you can get all the Nocxium you need in highsec?

pyrox provides laughably low volumes of nocxium

40% of what Hemorphite provides is not laughably low.

of the 6 nocxium giving ores, pyrox is 5th. it's hardly a "good" source of nocxium.

How it ranks in a lineup is an unnecessary point; what matters is how much it gives. And for a highsec ore, it gives too much. I guarantee you that more than half of the nocxium that comes from mining comes from Pyroxeres. That's because the vast majority of mining takes place in highsec.

I bet the price of tritanium doesn't deviate far from its year long averages. Maybe the steady increase we have seen starts to taper off.

It's not that we sit around doing nothing, it's that low sec is such that you kill every single thing you can if you have the chance. There are no instant fights, so if you're roaming looking for a fight and you see a miner in an easily discoverable location, you will kill it. In my two months of eve I've only found one miner in a belt in low sec, guess what happened to him...

Unless you can work out some kind of escort to protect you, people who are out looking for other combat fitted ships to blow up will be more than happy to take time to kill your mining skiff

especially with the Venture.

and this is the whole problem with low sec mining. if you can't do it in a barge or exhumer it's not worth doing.

lower isk/m3 due to higher concentration of bad ores like gneiss/spod. (and those ores can't be skipped, unless you like waiting 4 days for it to respawn)

Which is what I base my reasoning on, when suggsting that Gneiss and Spod be rebalanced by adding high ends rather than low ends. Tritanium and Pyerite are far worse ISK/m3 than Nocxium and Zydrine. Thus while mineral compression exists, hauling of bulky refined minerals in null sec is going to be competing with jump freighter loads of 40:1 compressed minerals from Jita. One freighter load from Jita, or forty loads from two systems over?

I wouldn't want to be the poor ******* spending an entire evening schlepping a freighter around null.

I agree with this. But maybe leave a tiny bit of Nocxium in the Pyroxeres, else you make a lot of people mad.

Jaspet has quite a bit of Nocx compared to Pyrox, but people aren't exactly flocking to low-sec to mine Jaspet, even with the added bonus of the zydrine.

Hmmm... trit and py will fall through the floor! Eve will be in a recession! Panic! Flee! Horde ALL the ISK! Grab your ventures and secure your measly stockpile! ALL the PLEX will be worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In short, the main bullet point to take away from this is that Eve is dying, and this will kill it faster.

deflation is not recession...

i think prices will go down to pre- drone poo nerf.

It all depends on how much industry moves out to null as a result. I guess it will greatly reduce the low ends being shipped out of high for capitals, but I'm not sure what percentage of high sec minerals end up in caps. Only time will tell how many null alliances bother to make their subcaps out in null, rather than ship in from high, as a result of these changes.

I can't see much trit and pyrite being shipped into high sec from null, a freighter full of the stuff isn't going to be worth enough for them to bother.

between the small amount of minerals added, and the low volume mined in null sec. we're not going to ever see pre-drone poop removal prices.

i'd be surprised if trit goes below 4-4.5 isk. not saying it can't, i'll just be surprised if it does.

deflation is not recession...

i think prices will go down to pre- drone poo nerf.

I don't know... If I was a bean counter at CCP, I would not want people to be dropping their alts and decreasing the bottom line. Surely that would mean lower budgets to do future expansions.

I disagree. You have to look at what was causing the depressed prices with drone poo. There was a way to create minerals that was faster than mining.

50 million an isk an hour mission bounties.
50 million ISK worth of minerals an hour drone poo.
25 million ISK an hour mining.

You couldn't get an equilibrium between mission bounties and mining yield, because there was another option for mineral injection. If mining produced half the minerals of drone poo, then mining was locked into half the profitability of missioning becuase the eualibrium established by people deciding the most profitable activity was between missioning for bounties or killing drones for minerals.


Now, with drone poo gone, as mineral prices drop below mission bounty equilibrium, people will park the exhumers and break out the mission boats... supply and demand will pull mineral prices back up to equilibrium.



And, NO... adding more trit and pyr is not going to make null mining more profitable than high. More likely, the need to get trit and pyr will cause more croc and bist mining to occur... driving down the price of the high ends that will become the shist... the byproduct of what you are really after.


All this change does it make it so that construction in null is not bottle necked by how many freighter loads of trit you can get in.