We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their shipGÇÖs built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance.

Mining in w-space will be suicide with the ore sites, it'll still be very risky in Null / LS unless you have a pvp fleet on permanent overwatch.

the risk of dying will be too damn high.

As someone who occasionally kills miners in w-space, I fully support this change and it will make the hunt easier, since they won't even know I'm coming until they're already pointed even if they're hitting dscan every few seconds.

As someone who occasionally mines in w-space, this change will turn me into someone who never mines in w-space. Sure, "use scouts" is fine and dandy for people in higher class WHs with large corps, but for solo/(very) small groups in the lower classes of wormholes, this may very well make mining too risky to be worth it.

There's a meme in here somewhere...

this change was needed why exactly?
just more dumbing down of exploration...

Why does CCP keep lowering the skills to play the game and the risk or work vs reward ?

The changes to scanning skills and modules for example reduce training needed to get scanning skills at a usable level but don't seem to benefit characters that have invested a large amount of time in training. Guess we'll see. Thus far I'm not too excited although I'm hopeful with reservations about the upcoming changes.

Are you sure that the onboard scanner also indicated whether there are sigs and where they are? All i could see from the presentations was that it showed anoms.

CCP stated that the grav site concept is being nixed entirely. Unless they keep gravs just for wspace.

was confirmed in the exploration round table grav sites are gone period. even in WH space. said if any group could adapt to this it would be us

Why so much whining?

You can't handle having one deep space probe out watching for new sigs while you mine? At least you can just warp off in a hulk or w/e. Can't do that in a combat site....

Why so much whining?

You can't handle having one deep space probe out watching for new sigs while you mine? At least you can just warp off in a hulk or w/e. Can't do that in a combat site....

Are there really that many WH miners?

Yes I could do that, but if anyone in my WH opens the static, Im stuffed.

What about people in the C2 I was in yesterday, they had 4 k162s.

The risk does not equal the reward from mining, and C1-C4s do not have enough to support many people without mining.

Anyway I realized that if I go back to 1 account, I have enough isk that I don't need to pay for my account for years.

Now I can just roll up on WH miners without ever dropping cloak.

Don't open your static then? Collapse your K162's and your static, don't warp to the new one. WH is completely closed off until a new K162 opens into your system, at which point your warp off your miners....

...collapse the new hole and get on with your business.

I

If you must have open holes, put some alts in cloakys on them. Ventures with a cloak will do, hardly expensive. Most of EVE seems to have a tons of alts, after all.

As someone who occasionally kills miners in w-space, I fully support this change and it will make the hunt easier, since they won't even know I'm coming until they're already pointed even if they're hitting dscan every few seconds.

As someone who occasionally mines in w-space, this change will turn me into someone who never mines in w-space. Sure, "use scouts" is fine and dandy for people in higher class WHs with large corps, but for solo/(very) small groups in the lower classes of wormholes, this may very well make mining too risky to be worth it.

This pretty much sums it up to me. If you're in a large wormhole corp/alliance that already has to PvP regularly to defend your space, then nothing much has changed. For us small corps, wormhole mining is now dangerous to the extreme. I certainly won't be doing it after the changes! Like it was already mentioned, even Dscanning constantly and watching entrances isn't currently a certain way to stay safe. After these changes, its going to be ridiculously easy for pirates.

those who kill miners in W space are not pirates .. Also a point that you guys seem to be missing is the new discovery scanner will also show the sigs of non anoms. so you will get a general idea of what is there.. you will also be able to see new sigs with it. So if you kept a scout on your own static or kept your static closed you will see k162s as the appear and be able to just warp off and look at what might of happened. all these people who think this will change much for the competent miners in W space are kidding themselves, the only people who this will effect are the ones who were already dumb enough to get caught. I am really surprised the fact that u can now launch 7 probes at once has not caused more people to complain then this whole is now an anom thing .. cause were before if i bear was in a scan down site or safe they have about 10 seconds for me to drop 7 probes get them off dscan and recloak now its down to like 3 or less, so the window for you to see the cloaky hunter on dscan is now down to less then 1/3 of what it used to be. For the record i love the 7 probe change

[...] Also a point that you guys seem to be missing is the new discovery scanner will also show the sigs of non anoms. so you will get a general idea of what is there.. you will also be able to see new sigs with it.[...]

Surely the amount of quality ore might also change to make it worth the risk? I don't recall any of the fanfest presentations commenting on that.
Could you not in most cases align and warp out when an enemy decloaks? I'm not aware of the align time of the various barges but I've seen people do that in combat anoms before I can get a lock. *shrugs*

I'd say grav sites were too safe previously, I don't want to see semi afk mining as viable.

Hes dumb.. It does not show new sigs.. It has basically moved gravs into anom type sites and shows anoms.. you will still need to probe to see new sigs.. you will be able to see new grav sites and new anoms thats it..

Learn to read.. k thanks

I have a maxed out exploration character as well and I'm extremely excited about these changes! Scanning mods? Increase my already maxed out probe strength you say?! H***s YEAH!! The more people that don't find it worth maxing thier scan skills out the better because thats more people that I can outscan without really even trying :P

I don't see how you can say 10% boost to scan strength/speed/deviation mods won't benefit you with maxed skills... The only thing it will do is push the gap between maxed characters and 'good enough' characters.

Did you even mention that, for wormholes --- you most likely won't us e them that much. I mean which scrub sits in a wormhole scanning and decloaked with instantly deployable combats and probe formations. So those modules will most likely go to hisec (or k-space) explorers with now even lazier attitude!

And till now, mining in a hidden belt/grav made you pretty much ungankgable (unless stupid or AFK), now seems awesome. To gank all the ships!

And ye, wh-mining without a probe out is suicidal :)
Use a deep space probe in addition to dscan, you're in lawless space afterall.

Well, it made you effectively immune to drive-bys. It didn't make you immune to people who had snuck in and scanned the place down before you came online.

this change was needed why exactly?
just more dumbing down of exploration...

One thing that drew me in was that there was no instant gratification.

Reminds me of when I took up smoking.

I would argue that this change will actually boost mining in wormhole space because of the way site respawning works. In a lot of systems gravs are never warped to and thus stay unused for a long time. This could potentially lead to a more even spread of grav sites across different holes.

Not to mention that this will decrease the amount of sigs to scan in a wh by ~20% (assuming equal distribution)

I would argue that this change will actually boost mining in wormhole space because of the way site respawning works. In a lot of systems gravs are never warped to and thus stay unused for a long time. This could potentially lead to a more even spread of grav sites across different holes.

Not to mention that this will decrease the amount of sigs to scan in a wh by ~20% (assuming equal distribution)

Also a point that you guys seem to be missing is the new discovery scanner will also show the sigs of non anoms. so you will get a general idea of what is there.. you will also be able to see new sigs with it. So if you kept a scout on your own static or kept your static closed you will see k162s as the appear and be able to just warp off and look at what might of happened.

Ah cool, i wasn't aware of that. Well that at least provides an early warning against people entering the system.

My understanding of the new discovery scanner was that it was exactly equivalent to the anomaly scanner, potentially plus sites you'd already scanned down/found. I honestly don't see this being any kind of impedance to a WH miner because they'll just close their static + inbounds and keep an eye out for K162s...

-Liang

As someone who is part of a mainly EU corp in a C4 (with a C2 static), we only have about 7 members. Most of the time I'm on, no one else is. I also don't have any alts. As a solo explorer who mines from time to time, this really kills me.

What can I do? Nothing. They really can't let this go through. It kills the small-time explorer and actually aids the large organizations.

As someone who is part of a mainly EU corp in a C4 (with a C2 static), we only have about 7 members. Most of the time I'm on, no one else is. I also don't have any alts. As a solo explorer who mines from time to time, this really kills me.

What can I do? Nothing. They really can't let this go through. It kills the small-time explorer and actually aids the large organizations.

wait so as you are mining you can't keep an eye on your system/discovery scanner as you mine? Or you know you could always put a bubble at the grav site warp in and toss out a drone cloud in it to decloak things that wish to harm you and then mine away from it? or mine in a venture and use that utility high for a probe launcher? or move to a system that can be entirely on dscan from anywhere in system.. usually when people come off the hole they will show up on dscan for 5-10 seconds as the move off and cloak up, though you would have to be paying attention and semi lucky to catch them on dscan in this way .. or mashing it every couple seconds. Hmm what other things can be done to adapt to this? Fit ecm/ecm drones and maybe agility mods? the only thing that wont have a 4-7 second targeting delay is bombers or black ops ( but they can't warp cloaked ) and bombers are not known for having great sensor str .. jam them with a multispec or ecm drones as you align out then warp once it lands?

the only arguments i have heard are from people who are mad that they can't semi afk mine any more, or that there might be added defensive setup steps they need to take ... or that you might need to find people to play with in order to survive in the dangerous lands of WH/Nullsec/lowsec space. Honestly .. adapt or get podded? HTFU? figure it out, there are tools in the game that will allow you to keep doing what you are doing .... you just need to learn to use them. Hell if people spent half the time figuring out instead of complaining they would have nothing to complain about?

actually, i do mine or atleast i used to. 4 perfect hulk pilots 1 hauling orca and 1 perfect boosting rorq/orca depending on where i am mining.. and TBH i never understood why anyone would mine in WH space .. you are either hauling constantly or refining at a greatly reduced rate.

So you mine but not in WHs, then maybe you should take your own advice and bring your hulks and orca into a WH and mine after the changes come out, then tell people to HTFU.

For those of us in small corporations and alliances, in C1-C4s, the change removed our style of play.

Not that I can complain that much, by closing four of my accounts and selling of Ice and assets of those characters I am now plexed into 2017 and climbing

wait so as you are mining you can't keep an eye on your system/discovery scanner as you mine? Or you know you could always put a bubble at the grav site warp in and toss out a drone cloud in it to decloak things that wish to harm you and then mine away from it? or mine in a venture and use that utility high for a probe launcher? or move to a system that can be entirely on dscan from anywhere in system.. usually when people come off the hole they will show up on dscan for 5-10 seconds as the move off and cloak up, though you would have to be paying attention and semi lucky to catch them on dscan in this way .. or mashing it every couple seconds. Hmm what other things can be done to adapt to this? Fit ecm/ecm drones and maybe agility mods? the only thing that wont have a 4-7 second targeting delay is bombers or black ops ( but they can't warp cloaked ) and bombers are not known for having great sensor str .. jam them with a multispec or ecm drones as you align out then warp once it lands?

the only arguments i have heard are from people who are mad that they can't semi afk mine any more, or that there might be added defensive setup steps they need to take ... or that you might need to find people to play with in order to survive in the dangerous lands of WH/Nullsec/lowsec space. Honestly .. adapt or get podded? HTFU? figure it out, there are tools in the game that will allow you to keep doing what you are doing .... you just need to learn to use them. Hell if people spent half the time figuring out instead of complaining they would have nothing to complain about?

usually when people come off the hole they will show up on dscan for 5-10 seconds as the move off and cloak up

actually, he is right. CCP soundwave did a demo here at the fanfest dureing eve keynotes and showed us the new jump tunnel (absolutly ******* awesome), BUT. he aslo showed the onboard scanner, witch showed anoms as green, and sigs as red.
to quote him after he did that scan "now im going to spawn a site, coz nobody wants to see me use hours to scan down that sig" (he was demonstrating the new hacking sig).

Anogra

Being solo in a fully fitted hulk takes away about every one of the options you listed except mashing d-scan every 5 seconds. I am human, and no one likes doing that.

@ Liang

I don't either? I'm talking about odyssey. With this change (assuming no changes to anything else), I will not be able to solo mine in a WH. The risk vs reward is totally shot. Eve in general, WH even more so, is a giant game of risk and opportunity analysis. The reward went up slightly for Odyssey, but the risk just quadrupled. The only thing that made us "safe" in WH mining was the combination of d-scan and needing to scan us or the site down.

EDIT: Usually I hope that everything that gets changed in k-space also applies to WH space (like non-combat mag/radar sites), but for this particular instance it really shouldn't be. We don't have the benefit of local. Although, this is a huge buff to SB afk campers in null sec.

ROFL, you'd be lucky if I was on d-scan for a split second, and kissed on the prick by god himself if you clicked scan at that exact time.

When I do it with mine, I'm gone before the cloak has fully faded the ship.

Now I can just roll up on WH miners without ever dropping cloak.

Dont people use probes when they do stuff inside their wh ? (small corp wh dweller here)

We collapse the static and dont touch the new one when it spawns.
ALWAYS have a probe in system looking for the next K162 to spawn.

If there is a pilot camping the system your screwed but aint that why we live in wh space ? **** happens in the blink of an eye and that is the thrill for me at least .

Why so much whining?

You can't handle having one deep space probe out watching for new sigs while you mine? At least you can just warp off in a hulk or w/e. Can't do that in a combat site....

Collapsing statics isn't really a practical option for corps with 6-7 people on and only 1-2 on at any given time.

Also, I'm curious about this because I'm slightly new on the topic. What does not touching the new one do exactly? What's the point of collapsing the old one just to create another?

Let me get one thing straight... In this expansion will probes and probe launchers become obsolete and replaced by this "Click to Win" scan button or will there be any more complexions for current veteran scanners ?

Only for anom runners and would be miners.

Also, have any of you tried to catch miners by warping directly into an asteroid belt?

You guys saw that the new onboard scanner allows you to see new sigs spawning in your system right?

You know what that implies? You don't even need an alt with a probe out to look for new wormholes anymore...

Also, have any of you tried to catch miners by warping directly into an asteroid belt? It's hideously difficult. All it takes is one giant misplaced rock in your path and you could end up blowing your cloak 70 km premature.

If anything, catching miners will be more difficult with odyssey. The miner has an easier time to look out for intruders, but the hunter still needs combat probes if they want a precise warp in to guarantee them the kill. If you still die mining in Odyssey then it'll be 190% your own damn fault.

I have personally had no problems as a solo explorer.

-Liang

You guys saw that the new onboard scanner allows you to see new sigs spawning in your system right?

You know what that implies? You don't even need an alt with a probe out to look for new wormholes anymore...

this change was needed why exactly?
just more dumbing down of exploration...

/bad CCP. You are protecting the bigger groups for us smaller you don't give a s-h-i-t!

Who mines ore in wspace?
Jsigs, please...

anoms have always been click to win, though now thinking about it .. if you need on grid boosters shortly .. how will this effect mining with rorq boosts? there is no way people are going to siege up a rorq in the middle of a grav site if people dont need to scan it down.

Mining in w-space will be suicide with the ore sites, it'll still be very risky in Null / LS unless you have a pvp fleet on permanent overwatch.

yes, you can ignore the old sigs. You just have to do it manually.

With your brain.

I can`t use something that I don`t have. Now, go away!

Meh, won't be any different than running anoms in Nul/Low. As long as you're smart enough to watch local it's simple as can be.

Oh, I'll go away.

Or will I?

It could be that I'm always there, watching you.

That's a nice ship you warped to your tower the other day.

Makes my little Bomber squad I've got logged off in your hole itching to go.

:P