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Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.09.28 18:10:00 -
[1]
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.09.28 18:10:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ryysa on 28/09/2005 18:16:29
Edited by: Ryysa on 28/09/2005 18:14:49
Okay, i'm trying to make a decent guide for jamming, if you feel i am incorrect anywhere, feel free to correct me.
Table of contents:
1. How the jamming works after EW patch.
2. Optimal, falloff, wtf?
3. Skills affecting jammers.
4. Personal recommendations.
5. Plain ship setups.
6. Probability theory for those who care.
Part 1:
When before the EW patch, you only had to stack up enough jammers to go over someone's sensor strength, now it's different... there is a percentage chance of jamming now.
Let's say we have a blackbird with a multispectral jammer (from now one referred to as "Multis"), with a jamming strength of 4 (assume the person has no skills trained whatsoever). He goes up against a ferox (which has a sensor gravimetric sensor strength of 19), his chance to jam the ferox with that one jammer is 4/19 * 100% = 21,1 %
So the formula for calculating the jamming percentage is [Jammer Strength] (divided by) [Target sensor strength] (multiplied by) [100%]
Now let's see what happens if this same ferox gets jammed by a non-named T1 gravimetric jammer (Spatial Destabilizer I) by a person who has no skills to boost the jammer. This jammer would have a jamming strength of 6.
6/19 * 100% = 31.6%
This is conciderably better, however let's see what happens if we jam someone with the wrong racial jammer. T1 non-named Racial jammers (from now on referred to as "Racials") have a jamming strength of 2 towards all sensors, except towards the race's sensors they were designed to jam.
Wrong racial jammer calculation on the ferox:
2/19 * 100% = 10.5%
Conclusion: Racials are more effective, but you must know what you are up against, or just fit racials of every kind. I will cover this more later on in the skills section.
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.09.28 18:11:00 -
[3]
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.09.28 18:12:00 -
[4]
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.09.28 18:12:00 -
[5]
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.09.28 18:12:00 -
[6]
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madaluap
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Posted - 2005.09.28 18:14:00 -
[7]
GHEY!!!!
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Palx
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Posted - 2005.09.28 18:32:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: madaluap
GHEY!!!!
wtf
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Blazde
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Posted - 2005.09.28 19:39:00 -
[9]
Can we assume this magic only takes into account the highest sensor strength a ship has, and hence there's no advantage of fitting a multi sensor backup array (+2 to all sensors) over the relevant racial backup array (+2 to one sensor)?
__________________
4S Corporation Kill List |
fl0pski
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Posted - 2005.09.28 19:46:00 -
[10]
greetings from #eve-o quakenet \o
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.09.28 19:49:00 -
[11]
very nice. shame there's one on the sticky... 
--
This Zig. For great justice! |
Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.09.28 19:59:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ryysa on 28/09/2005 19:59:45
Originally by: Blazde
Can we assume this magic only takes into account the highest sensor strength a ship has, and hence there's no advantage of fitting a multi sensor backup array (+2 to all sensors) over the relevant racial backup array (+2 to one sensor)?
Yes, only the highest strength counts.
Originally by: HippoKing
very nice. shame there's one on the sticky...
Time for a new then... or maybe not.... i don't really mind if it gets stickied...
If it's worthy of a sticky, then i'm happy :)
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Turfrider
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Posted - 2005.09.29 00:41:00 -
[13]
nice thread, thanks for putting the effort in.
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.09.29 00:49:00 -
[14]
Ah good effort, nice thread 
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Linia
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Posted - 2005.10.27 13:57:00 -
[15]
Ive just got into bomber and I thought that it might be smart to have such ECM - Multispectral I on it to make enemies loose target so I can cloak and get lively away :)
So Im getting into using one atm, you think its smart?
Ive thought of this setup:
hi:
2 x Cruise Missile Launcher
1 x Improved Cloak Device II
med:
1 x ECM - Multispectral Jammer I or II ?
1/2 x Cap Recharger I
1 x Sensor Booster I / II for long range shooting
maybe another ECM?
low:
1 x Nanofiber
1 x MAPC
-------------------------------------------------------------
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Dreez
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Posted - 2005.11.18 12:42:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Dreez on 18/11/2005 12:43:48
I find it outmost ridicolous that a fully trained scorpionpilot
with topnotch skills in EW will only have just over 50% chanse
of jamming another battleship. Is an utter joke, and needs fixing.
If i spend monts training those skills to max, then i¦d expect
to have atleast 80% chanse of an successful jamming.
Before this "new" EW patch if you were packing enough mods, you
could jam anything with a 100% chanse of success.
For example i¦ve heard people jamming amarr ships using gallante
jammers, WTF is up with that. It should not be frikkin possible to
jam another race with the wrong kind of jammer, even if your skills
are elite. Specific jammer for specific race, of multispectrals for
a wildcard, but greatly reduced chanse of jamming.
I had some cals done and appearently , a pilot with topskills in
anything needed to EW, he has a 65% chanse of jamming the weakest
BS in a sorpion ffs !, 65% aint squat. Not to mention that its only
~46% against another scorpion.
The EW needs lookin into and ajdusted accordingly so that the %
chanse is increased when it comes to racial jammers.
I know that jamming happens alot more in "reality" then it shows
on the paper, but it still needs fixing.
GM Mulder: Ships beeing abducted by aliens is a perfectly
normal thing, there is nothing abnormal about it.
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Shidhe
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Posted - 2005.11.18 12:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dreez
Edited by: Dreez on 18/11/2005 12:43:48
I find it outmost ridicolous that a fully trained scorpionpilot
with topnotch skills in EW will only have just over 50% chanse
of jamming another battleship. Is an utter joke, and needs fixing.
If i spend monts training those skills to max, then i¦d expect
to have atleast 80% chanse of an successful jamming.
No it isnt - work out the chances of jamming when you apply several jammers - and a scorp can easily have 5. They all have an independent chance to jam. Any better, and EW would become the proverbial 'I win" button. At the moment, the counter measures to EW are seriously underpowered.
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Whoot
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Posted - 2005.11.18 13:39:00 -
[18]
Noob question:
How does it works with the Long distance jamming.
U get a bonus to ur optimal jamming range.
Isnt this bad when u try to jam at lets say 15k???
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.11.18 14:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Whoot
Noob question:
How does it works with the Long distance jamming.
U get a bonus to ur optimal jamming range.
Isnt this bad when u try to jam at lets say 15k???
Jammer's don't have tracking. So < Optimal is good.
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
Phoenicia
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Posted - 2005.11.18 14:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Linia
Ive just got into bomber and I thought that it might be smart to have such ECM - Multispectral I on it to make enemies loose target so I can cloak and get lively away :)
So Im getting into using one atm, you think its smart?
Ive thought of this setup:
hi:
2 x Cruise Missile Launcher
1 x Improved Cloak Device II
med:
1 x ECM - Multispectral Jammer I or II ?
1/2 x Cap Recharger I
1 x Sensor Booster I / II for long range shooting
maybe another ECM?
low:
1 x Nanofiber
1 x MAPC
Smart thinking, bad choice. A Multispectral jammer will give you one chance to jam; then your capacitor is empty. I would suggest using a dampener instead. At long range, the results are similar.
"There is no peace, there is only BOOBIES!" |
Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.11.24 18:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dreez
Edited by: Dreez on 18/11/2005 12:43:48
I find it outmost ridicolous that a fully trained scorpionpilot
with topnotch skills in EW will only have just over 50% chanse
of jamming another battleship. Is an utter joke, and needs fixing.
If i spend monts training those skills to max, then i¦d expect
to have atleast 80% chanse of an successful jamming.
Before this "new" EW patch if you were packing enough mods, you
could jam anything with a 100% chanse of success.
For example i¦ve heard people jamming amarr ships using gallante
jammers, WTF is up with that. It should not be frikkin possible to
jam another race with the wrong kind of jammer, even if your skills
are elite. Specific jammer for specific race, of multispectrals for
a wildcard, but greatly reduced chanse of jamming.
I had some cals done and appearently , a pilot with topskills in
anything needed to EW, he has a 65% chanse of jamming the weakest
BS in a sorpion ffs !, 65% aint squat. Not to mention that its only
~46% against another scorpion.
The EW needs lookin into and ajdusted accordingly so that the %
chanse is increased when it comes to racial jammers.
I know that jamming happens alot more in "reality" then it shows
on the paper, but it still needs fixing.
Err, EW is fine.... it's a bit luck based...
You have like 50% chance with 1 jammer... calculate with 2 jammers it's 75% (use my formula), with 3 it's 87.5%....
Have you actually flown a scorp? i often end up jamming 2 BS with just 4 multi t2's fitted :o
__________________________________________
All about target jamming... |
Ryysa
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Posted - 2005.11.24 18:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Linia
Ive just got into bomber and I thought that it might be smart to have such ECM - Multispectral I on it to make enemies loose target so I can cloak and get lively away :)
So Im getting into using one atm, you think its smart?
Ive thought of this setup:
hi:
2 x Cruise Missile Launcher
1 x Improved Cloak Device II
med:
1 x ECM - Multispectral Jammer I or II ?
1/2 x Cap Recharger I
1 x Sensor Booster I / II for long range shooting
maybe another ECM?
low:
1 x Nanofiber
1 x MAPC
try in mids 2 sensor boosters and 2 sensor dampeners...
And get skills up for the damps... (all T2 ofc).
Bomber is long-range damage support, so if someone is tackling a hac or BS, then if you warp in at 100 and then damp him with 2 damps he won't be able to lock you, and you'll be able to lock him with 2 boosters...
So you can sit there and pound him while he can't fire back...
__________________________________________
All about target jamming... |
Jana De'Morte
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Posted - 2006.01.12 23:12:00 -
[23]
i got a question about jamming.... what is the result of this jamming? is it that your opponent loses the lock on you or what?
Why do I do this? Because the money's good, the scenery changes, and they let me use explosives, okay? |
Skidd Chung
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Posted - 2006.01.13 11:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jana De'Morte
i got a question about jamming.... what is the result of this jamming? is it that your opponent loses the lock on you or what?
Using ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) or jamming causes your opponent to lose his locking ability for 20 seconds. So if you successfully 'jammed' him, he will immediately stop firing his guns and missiles, he also lose his ability to warp scramble and web you. Anything that requires him to lock you will be suppressed for 20 seconds when you successfully 'jammed' him.
He will need to wait for 20 seconds before he can lock you again. If you happen to jam him again on your next ECM cycle, then he will have to wait another 20 seconds.
An ECM burst module is a bit diferent though. It is like a smart bomb. It does not cause the target to lose his locking ability, he will just lose his current lock. He can lock you again immediately. Best use if you are being scrambled by pirates and are looking for a way to warp away to safety. Just activate the ECM burst and immediately warp to a safe location away from the pirates. As all the pirates will lose their lock for a brief time and also their scrambling ability with it, until they re-lock you. Best done, when you are allign to your next location and up to warp speed.
There are ways to counter 'jamming' or ECM. If you are a missile user, you can switch to FOF missiles which attacks the nearest hostile without a lock required.
The use of ECCM have been boosted, and it's effectiveness is by 50% more strength on your ship.
Use the ECM modules before he does. In an event where both parties have ECM modules, the one that locks first will have the advantage of 'jamming' his target before he can activate his ECMs. Thus effectively stopping a opponent from using any jamming equipment. (To jam, u need to lock!)
Drones are also an advantage if you manage to lock the enemy first and instruct drones to attack him, before you are jammed by the enemy. Once the instruction are given, the drones will continue to harrass the enemy even if you lose your lock due to being 'jammed' by the opponent.
Note: Jam also taste better with peanut butter.
---------------------------------------------
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. - Russell Bertrand -
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Whoot
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Posted - 2006.01.13 14:34:00 -
[25]
Mmmm, i asked a question before in this topic bout long range jamming.
Got now me long range jamming skill up to lvl 3 i think.
But it seems a lot harder to jam targets on close range.
Is this fact or fiction?
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VeNT
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Posted - 2006.01.13 14:58:00 -
[26]
fiction
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Darkdashing
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Posted - 2006.01.20 11:11:00 -
[27]
Interesting stuff, it seems nicely useful and I've tried using jamming against rats on my miner in .5 and .6 space with cool results. I love seeing that they can't attack me for 20 seconds.
Anyway, is it the case that if you have 2 jammers on one target, it doesnt increase the percentage chance of jamming? Why isn't it 100 percent and why doesn't the description mention percentage?
There is beauty in tension.... |
ookke
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Posted - 2006.01.20 11:27:00 -
[28]
A little comparison:
ecm - multispectral jammer ii vs. 'hypnos' multispectral ecm i
optimal/falloff: 36/18km vs. 36/18km
jamming strength: 4.8 vs. 4.8
activation cost: 132 vs. 96(!!)
skill reqs: EW IV, electronics I vs. EW I, electronics I
You will see the same difference on the racial jammers too, why on earth is best named t1 better than t2?
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Lithiani
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Posted - 2006.01.20 11:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Darkdashing
Anyway, is it the case that if you have 2 jammers on one target, it doesnt increase the percentage chance of jamming? Why isn't it 100 percent and why doesn't the description mention percentage?
Each Jammer is calculated seperately. There is no longer a 100% chance of Jamming taking effect. The trick to using Jammers effectively is to cycle them on and off. Jamming chance is determined by comparing the Jam Strength and Sensor Strength
Example: You have 2 Targets, we'll call them A and B, and you have 3 Jammers. You already have both locked, and are trying to keep both Jammed. Let's say (just for the sake of the example) that you have 50% chance of Jamming against them.
You try to Jam target A. Your Jam sticks, so you move on to target B
Your first Jam of target B fails, so you turn off that Jammer and use your third Jammer, which works.
You watch the Jam bars for a few moments, until target As bar comes down to 0. At this point the game re-rolls the Jam calc for the Jammer you have active on the target. It fails, so you turn off that Jammer. At this point all your Jammers are either red or green. Target A will be trying to relock you at this point.
The second Jammer (the one you failed to Jam target B with on the first cycle) is available again a few seconds after. You use it on target A, and the Jam takes.
Just after, target Bs Jam bar goes to 0. The game re-rolls the Jam calc from Jammer 3, and the Jam fails. At this point you have no Jammers left available. The next Jammer that's going to come up is number 1, in maybe 15ish seconds. You turn off Jammer 3 and wait, hoping not to die in the meantime.
The reason for turning the failed Jammers off is that otherwise the Jammer will continue to attempt to Jam, even though the target is already Jammed, and have no effect, but will both eat cap and put itself unavailable for another 20 seconds.
Putting 2 Jammers on one target and just leaving them there isn't as effective as cycling failed Jammers in and out. EWar takes a bit of micromanagement to get the maximum possible effectiveness from.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.01.20 11:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: ookke
A little comparison:
ecm - multispectral jammer ii vs. 'hypnos' multispectral ecm i
optimal/falloff: 36/18km vs. 36/18km
jamming strength: 4.8 vs. 4.8
activation cost: 132 vs. 96(!!)
skill reqs: EW IV, electronics I vs. EW I, electronics I
You will see the same difference on the racial jammers too, why on earth is best named t1 better than t2?
They should really remove the increased CPU usage of named damage mods and reintroduce them as they were prior to T2 -> having reduced CPU. (just like every other named module). Is this related to your question? Slightly, yes.
Named modules, especially the best named, are a lot harder to get your hands on than the T2 ones. I think that even in the cases where the best T1 version has no benefit over the T2 version, the best named T1 version tend to be more costly on market.
Simply put, the output of T2 modules is higher than best named T1 modules. There are some such T1 modules, however, that are dropped from several factions as well as a wide variety of ship classes. These aren't as uncommon.
The stylii-domain is down. Use http://mc.kladdpapper.com/forum/ to access MC's forums. |
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