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Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
40
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 04:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? Where are ANY innovations in PVE to make it more dynamic and alive in order to at least give players a canvass on which their imaginations can fill in the gaps? And don't tell me to go play ****ing SWTOR.
It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers. It annoys me to no end that so many EVE players hate sci fi. There's a sort of middle school-ish peer pressure to treat anything immersive as Santa Claus kid stuff. ****ing goons and other cynical leet "community born" pressure CCP to neglect immersive storytelling and dynamic PVE (and I mean just up to par with other MMOs) because it's not "emergent content" (and not about their stardom) etc. Such a ****ing waste of the world that CCP created.
Don't get me wrong. PVP in EVE is amazing. The sandbox is a thing of beauty. It's extremely awesome that some players have become famous and influential. The communities that have been formed are a unique thing in this world. And I want more people in 0.0 carving out little principalities and creating great dynamic emergent content as much as anyone. If that's where we're going then CCP needs seriously turn on the MWD and get us moving in that direction ASAP. In that case a lesser focus on empire PVE might make more sense.
But even if 0.0 were 10x as dynamic and populated as it is now it would still be great to have an environment in which the professional sci fi storytellers at CCP (who are getting payed for what? Maybe there's only one writer left) are able to tell the ongoing story of this world and give us interesting ways to be part of it. I love science fiction. I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. I don't want it from Mass Effect or Star Wars. i want it from EVE. Can SOMEONE tell me WHY that is so much to ask???!!!
Like banging my ****ing head against a wall. |

Verlai
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
37
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 04:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
I like elves and dwarves. |

Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Nulli Legio
375
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 04:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
No I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |

mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
322
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 04:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
There is a massive backstory to Eve. Read the Chronicles: http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/chronicles/. Try and keep up with the live events as well: https://twitter.com/EVE_LiveEvents
The game itself is somewhat intentionally left void of NPC interaction in order to facilitate player storylines instead. |

Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
781
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 04:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
EVE is one of the most immersive games I've ever played in my life, I don't know what your going on about.
Look at the Battle of Caldari Prime, not just the event but the weeks leading up to it were absolutely fantastic in terms of lore and immersion. CCP does a great job of making the EVE universe feel alive and real, and if you are into nullsec like I am the players add that as well.
But hey, that's just me. I have a stupidly overactive imagination and you could probably have me fully immersed in a game of Pong.
But seriously though. EVE has a TREMENDOUS backstory to it that's constantly being added onto. There are only four other sci-fi settings with more fluff to it than EVE that I can think of. Warhammer 40,000, Doctor Who, Star Wars, and Star Trek. Not sure of the order but you could put it together. Regardless, EVE is easily in the top 5 and it's only been around for a decade. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |

Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
539
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 04:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Is this a troll, it must be a troll
0.1879/10 |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2669
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 04:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
The reality is opposite of what the OP states.
|

Bolow Santosi
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
62
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 04:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Great_War
One of my favorite stories in EVE.
Spoiler: Good guys win. |

Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 04:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah the backstory is fantastic and I mean no disrespect to that or, in my frustration, to the game. As to the NPC void it would be nice to hear a clear statement from CCP that this void has such a specific purpose.
mechtech wrote:Look at the Battle of Caldari Prime, not just the event but the weeks leading up to it were absolutely fantastic in terms of lore and immersion. CCP does a great job of making the EVE universe feel alive and real, and if you are into nullsec like I am the players add that as well.
As far as I know Caldari Prime is the first of its kind but does seem to maybe be part of a movement towards story. And I have to admit I have not yet lived in nullsec, though I intend to. Nevertheless I don't believe that having access to better, more dynamic PVE and storyline content would hamper the growth of the community. It would provide a kind of immersive content that player interactions just can't and would make the background for those interactions more vivid and alive. It might make some "carebears" take more time focused on PVE while they enjoy something actually worth playing but in the end those that want more human interaction and community will know where to find it.
The fact is that a significant portion of EVE players currently focus on PVE and most of them (in effect) play solo. So even though CCP has apparently intentionally locked storyline PVE in a closet and left it to rot in its own s**t for years people still seek it out, year after year. Why? Because that's what a whole lot of people want! Making part of your game ****ing suck so that people will go focus on another part is bad business. If that's their scheme then please just remove all PVE. I love you CCP and I'm so grateful for what you've created, but when it comes to PVE, s**t or get off the pot. |

Rhivre
TarNec
70
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Part of the point of eve is that the players ARE the story, and they make the story.
Yes, there is extensive lore, and background, but that is secondary to the story which players make themselves.
As was mentioned several times at FF....the stories and events of players are often better than the stories CCP come up with.
The new trailer even hints at the fall of the factions, and CCP seagull was giving hints towards more player based things.
Yes, CCP do events like the Battle for Caldari prime, but, unlike most other games, many events, storylines etc are best when done by players. |
|

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4795
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Generally it helps to open your eyes first if you want to see. |

Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
And again, how is emergent content undermined by designed content? Even if I live in 0.0 and am really involved and loving it, wouldn't it be great if I could take a little trip and go on a cool mini-epic arc, enjoy that experience that gives me something different, and then go back to "normal life"? It would be a great diversion and I'd look forward to the next one being seeded.
Here's a suggestion. Replace storyline missions from agents with mini-epic arcs that really spin a yarn and scatter agents with unique missions across all security space. Increased standings with empire (and pirate!) factions reveals more and more of them. Or better yet standings thresholds could yield a few "access keys" which reveal more unique agents from that faction when consumed. The player that earned them need only consume one and sell the rest so that those who have no interest in grinding standings can have access too. These unique agents would each provide mini-epic arcs and nice rewards. |

dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
138
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? Where are ANY innovations in PVE to make it more dynamic and alive in order to at least give players a canvass on which their imaginations can fill in the gaps? And don't tell me to go play ****ing SWTOR.
It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers. It annoys me to no end that so many EVE players hate sci fi. There's a sort of middle school-ish peer pressure to treat anything immersive as Santa Claus kid stuff. ****ing goons and other cynical leet "community born" pressure CCP to neglect immersive storytelling and dynamic PVE (and I mean just up to par with other MMOs) because it's not "emergent content" (and not about their stardom) etc. Such a ****ing waste of the world that CCP created.
Don't get me wrong. PVP in EVE is amazing. The sandbox is a thing of beauty. It's extremely awesome that some players have become famous and influential. The communities that have been formed are a unique thing in this world. And I want more people in 0.0 carving out little principalities and creating great dynamic emergent content as much as anyone. If that's where we're going then CCP needs seriously turn on the MWD and get us moving in that direction ASAP. In that case a lesser focus on empire PVE might make more sense.
But even if 0.0 were 10x as dynamic and populated as it is now it would still be great to have an environment in which the professional sci fi storytellers at CCP (who are getting payed for what? Maybe there's only one writer left) are able to tell the ongoing story of this world and give us interesting ways to be part of it. I love science fiction. I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. I don't want it from Mass Effect or Star Wars. i want it from EVE. Can SOMEONE tell me WHY that is so much to ask???!!!
Like banging my ****ing head against a wall.
The whole point of Eve is the story is written by players. It is not scripted. It is emergent. It comes from people interacting with each other, the stories of major powers battling it out with each other.
Think about all the stories you know from Eve's history. They are all about players interacting with each other. The poster from Goonswarm who posted the link to the Great War wiki page has it right. The fall of BoB, Guiding Hand Social club heist, hell even James 315 and his 'New Order' are the stories we write as players in this giant social sandbox experiment we call a game. When you watched the fanfest stream and Hilmar was on there talking about the first time someone had assets stolen from a corp and CCP allowed it. They lost 500 subscribers but gained 1000's more because that story hit the news. Eve is freedom to go out and be part of history in this universe, not just another "hero" following the same scripted storyline as every other player in the game.
Angang Ostus wrote:And again, how is emergent content undermined by designed content? Even if I live in 0.0 and am really involved and loving it, wouldn't it be great if I could take a little trip and go on a cool mini-epic arc, enjoy that experience that gives me something different, and then go back to "normal life"? It would be a great diversion and I'd look forward to the next one being seeded.
Here's a suggestion. Replace storyline missions from agents with mini-epic arcs that really spin a yarn and scatter agents with unique missions across all security space. Increased standings with empire (and pirate!) factions reveals more and more of them. Or better yet standings thresholds could yield a few "access keys" which reveal more unique agents from that faction when consumed. The player that earned them need only consume one and sell the rest so that those who have no interest in grinding standings can have access too. These unique agents would each provide mini-epic arcs and nice rewards.
Why would you want CCP to spend development time on something that doesn't work well with emergent gameplay? Yes the mission running is terrible, but why are you mission running if you don't like it? |

mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
322
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:And again, how is emergent content undermined by designed content? Even if I live in 0.0 and am really involved and loving it, wouldn't it be great if I could take a little trip and go on a cool mini-epic arc, enjoy that experience that gives me something different, and then go back to "normal life"? It would be a great diversion and I'd look forward to the next one being seeded.
Here's a suggestion. Replace storyline missions from agents with mini-epic arcs that really spin a yarn and scatter agents with unique missions across all security space. Increased standings with empire (and pirate!) factions reveals more and more of them. Or better yet standings thresholds could yield a few "access keys" which reveal more unique agents from that faction when consumed. The player that earned them need only consume one and sell the rest so that those who have no interest in grinding standings can have access too. These unique agents would each provide mini-epic arcs and nice rewards.
The fact of the matter is that this takes dev time which CCP (and players) feel is better suited to sandbox features.
What you suggested is basically the COSMOS system, which is still very much intact if you really want to use the content. |

Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:Part of the point of eve is that the players ARE the story, and they make the story.
Yes, there is extensive lore, and background, but that is secondary to the story which players make themselves.
As was mentioned several times at FF....the stories and events of players are often better than the stories CCP come up with.
The new trailer even hints at the fall of the factions, and CCP seagull was giving hints towards more player based things.
Yes, CCP do events like the Battle for Caldari prime, but, unlike most other games, many events, storylines etc are best when done by players.
Yes, of course real stories in which all the characters are real people trumps written stories. And chocolate is better than vanilla. No offense but why do you guys hate vanilla and why are you boycotting it? Can't we just have a decent helping of sci fi storytelling please???!!! What harm can it do? |

dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
138
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:Rhivre wrote:Part of the point of eve is that the players ARE the story, and they make the story.
Yes, there is extensive lore, and background, but that is secondary to the story which players make themselves.
As was mentioned several times at FF....the stories and events of players are often better than the stories CCP come up with.
The new trailer even hints at the fall of the factions, and CCP seagull was giving hints towards more player based things.
Yes, CCP do events like the Battle for Caldari prime, but, unlike most other games, many events, storylines etc are best when done by players. Yes, of course real stories in which all the characters are real people trumps written stories. And chocolate is better than vanilla. No offense but why do you guys hate vanilla and why are you boycotting it? Can't we just have a decent helping of sci fi storytelling please???!!! What harm can it do?
Dev time focused away from major issues like null sov and balancing the game. Basically Incarna 2.0 |

Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
48
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Because PVE is purely for farming isk and you don't need a story to make sense of it. |

Ai Shun
939
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay.
You do get it from EVE Online; just at a different pace and with more player input required. This is more like being a GM / Storyteller in a massive RPG than it is reading a novel. And CCP will stage events that impact the world (Note the recent events near Caldari Prime) and although those are rare; keep in mind the world moves slowly, year by year by year. It's on an entirely different scale with an entirely fluid and open set of protagonists.
Now don't tell me the tale of Ubiqua Seraph was not a science fiction story woven into immersive gameplay!
(http://eve.klaki.net/heist/) |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1866
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
I put on my robe and wizard's hat. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |

Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:Why would you want CCP to spend development time on something that doesn't work well with emergent gameplay? Yes the mission running is terrible, but why are you mission running if you don't like it?
I focused on missioning for the first few months, like many players, and enjoyed the OCDness of it. I haven't been doing much for a little while due to RL stuff and am just getting back into EVE and seeing it with fresh eyes. The fact that I have not really experienced much of what emergent gameplay has to offer gives me limited perspective. Maybe once i do I'll see the light and push for anything not player generated to be moved OUTTA the way. Heheh I can see that! Maybe CCP will give players like me that love a good story tools to become "agents" for player corporations.
Clearly I need to get out into 0.0 now so that I can see all sides. As I see it now storyline PVE is complimentary to player interaction. It's like plants and pets and art in your house: not nearly as important as people, but they really tie the room together.
|
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dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
138
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 05:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
I agree with you that it is needed to tie everything together, but it shouldn't be a focus to the detriment of the area's that really really really need iteration. I'd definitely recommend experiencing the emergent gameplay in some way. You'll enjoy it. |

Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 06:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Angang Ostus wrote:I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. You do get it from EVE Online; just at a different pace and with more player input required. This is more like being a GM / Storyteller in a massive RPG than it is reading a novel. And CCP will stage events that impact the world (Note the recent events near Caldari Prime) and although those are rare; keep in mind the world moves slowly, year by year by year. It's on an entirely different scale with an entirely fluid and open set of protagonists. Now don't tell me the tale of Ubiqua Seraph was not a science fiction story woven into immersive gameplay! (http://eve.klaki.net/heist/)
Wow, great insights. I hear what you're saying. Thank you. And that story is phenomenal. The fact that they did all that on contract to someone else and played it out for so long....yeah, immersive gameplay!
Hmmm....one thing about solo PVE is that, if you're engaged in the story, you feel like you're doing a lot and a lot is going on because the story gives your imagination points to attach to and then an active imagination fills in the rest. Up to now I've mostly preferred that to having more player interaction because I've had the impression that what's really going on in 0.0 is very limited. My impression is that alliances: build things, PVP, mine, rat, spy, steal....and that's it. I'm clearly not seeing the forest for the trees, but it's just seemed like....they haven't given us enough stuff to do. There's not enough variety of things going on. But maybe it's much more than I imagine.
It seems like if there's not quite enough, then storyline PVE could have a niche there in giving the imagination some stimulation from another angle from time to time.
Also, if CCP doesn't have enough resources to do this, they should hire like...2 people. |

Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1173
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 07:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
This is Eve.
Make your own sci-fi story lines.
This is not a signature. |

Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
142
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 07:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:As far as I know Caldari Prime is the first of its kind In what sense?
How is it so different from chasing Sansha Kuvekai around Yulai and off down into lowsec to try to stop him raiding planets? How is it new and unique compared to all of the various live events which have occured since the game began? (excepting the few years of absence when player volunteers were phased out).
I would suggest you're not looking deep enough if you think that story development is restricted to the offline, downtime events which characterised faction warfare and wormholes. |

Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
103
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 07:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
I dont run missions to be part of a story and I wouldnt do PVE to immerse myself. I run missions to grind standings and get isk thats pretty much it; however there are some who do like to really delve into the story and RP, thats great and all but this is first and foremost a sandbox. In a sandbox, the community at large decideds teh direction CCP takes. Unfortunately in your case it is away from PVE and more towards PVP.
Perhaps you haven't heard of TrueStories you submit your own stories of who you have been part of eve and if enough people do it...something great happens, a storyline of its own starts to form and the universe starts to take shape in the form of that story. It shouldnt be defined by defeating Krull and screaming for CCP for more missions nor should we rely on CCP to create storyline content in the form of the empires.
EVE Chronicles
EVE Short Stories
EVE World News
Look at all these resources of material being generated every day from players and devs concerning storylines and you are mad because its not presented in game in the form of a mission??
Ive heard of EVE being brutal and savage and perhaps difficult to play but never lack of immersion. To make it better, CCP is even working on UI mechanics and graphics to add to the immersion of it all. Id rather EVE continue the way its going and focus on ways to improve and balance the game before shifting to new mission content. To be honest I think you need to play EVE a bit longer and really understand it before you try attacking something you clearly do not. |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3334
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 07:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? You make no sense. PvE provides no stories. Players provide stories.
PvE doesn't provide any way to create new stories. Players create *real* stories.
Stop hiding in a universe, which only exists in your head. EvE is as real as any science fiction universe can get. |

Lost True
Paradise project
2123
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Well, PvE in eve is sucks, of course. It's actually not PvE most of the time, it's just grinding. And there is a difference.
I'm playing STO for it's PvE and a bit of roleplay, when i have a couple of not too busy months... in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much? [-á-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦] -£-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦ -¦-+-Ç-+-+-Ç-¦-å-+-Å Transtellar |

Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Quote:Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? You make no sense. PvE provides no stories. Players provide stories. PvE doesn't provide any way to create new stories. Players create *real* stories. Stop hiding in a universe, which only exists in your head. EvE is as real as any science fiction universe can get.
Why does it have to be either/or? You do a great job of creating content. You're definitely telling your own story. That's awesome. We all want more of that. Most of us want to be part of the stories that players tell one way or another. Some of us just want other kinds of stories too. We want.....(sigh)I feel like I'm trying to describe the color blue to people who have never seen it and have no interest in it. That's fine. You see colors i can't see.
You don't have to understand. Just understand this. 40-60% of the people who play this game want what I want. We want it because it's IMPORTANT to US. We invest in this game too and we are a significant portion of the player base. We are tired of being neglected by CCP. We deserve better than for devs to sit on their hands as we are told to STFU and GTFO by people who think they are entitled to determine the direction of this game so that it meets their needs at the expense of others.
People who like PVE that has a story are not a virus that needs to be eradicated from EVE. The vast majority of us are on board for what this game is primarily about. We are different than you. We have some different interests. You are not better than us. That's diversity. You're so afraid that EVE will become a theme park. Guys....CCP is not going to let that happen. Clearly that's not the direction they're going. You get your iteration. It's time we get ours. HTFU |

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1355
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Quote:Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? You make no sense. PvE provides no stories. Players provide stories. PvE doesn't provide any way to create new stories. Players create *real* stories. Stop hiding in a universe, which only exists in your head. EvE is as real as any science fiction universe can get.
Yes and no.
CCP mechanics restrict the dynamic nature of the "storytelling" which also create a backdrop for players effecting the story of Eve. Storyline wise Eve should be in a perpetual state of war between the factions, however this is hardly felt in places like Highsec/Low. "Storytelling" doesn't necessarily have to be PVE based, but instead can be used to influence player interaction. People tend to forget this is a MMORPG expanding on storytelling aspect is a part of the game as well.
[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=206023&find=unread[/url] |

Nessa Aldeen
First Among Equals
19
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? Where are ANY innovations in PVE to make it more dynamic and alive in order to at least give players a canvass on which their imaginations can fill in the gaps? And don't tell me to go play ****ing SWTOR.
It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers. It annoys me to no end that so many EVE players hate sci fi. There's a sort of middle school-ish peer pressure to treat anything immersive as Santa Claus kid stuff. ****ing goons and other cynical leet "community born" pressure CCP to neglect immersive storytelling and dynamic PVE (and I mean just up to par with other MMOs) because it's not "emergent content" (and not about their stardom) etc. Such a ****ing waste of the world that CCP created.
Don't get me wrong. PVP in EVE is amazing. The sandbox is a thing of beauty. It's extremely awesome that some players have become famous and influential. The communities that have been formed are a unique thing in this world. And I want more people in 0.0 carving out little principalities and creating great dynamic emergent content as much as anyone. If that's where we're going then CCP needs seriously turn on the MWD and get us moving in that direction ASAP. In that case a lesser focus on empire PVE might make more sense.
But even if 0.0 were 10x as dynamic and populated as it is now it would still be great to have an environment in which the professional sci fi storytellers at CCP (who are getting payed for what? Maybe there's only one writer left) are able to tell the ongoing story of this world and give us interesting ways to be part of it. I love science fiction. I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. I don't want it from Mass Effect or Star Wars. i want it from EVE. Can SOMEONE tell me WHY that is so much to ask???!!!
Like banging my ****ing head against a wall.
This is not Dr Seuss. CCP is not here to tell you ABC story, you make your own. Now go back to your Korean MMO. |
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2412
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
I listen to alestorm as I sink my sack into the ops mouth...
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Ihazcheez Hashur
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Eve to me is absolutely about the story line. I dont really know anything of this 'emergent story', but in essence, for me atleast, and my friends that Eve is a place for us to jump on skype, grab a beer or two, and have fun testing our new ship builds running Level 4 missions. I'd LOVE to be able to try some level 5 missions, that would be awesome... but none of us care for direct PvP, my only PvP experience was when I accidently went to a 0.4 system for a mission when I first started EvE, but certainly didn't experience the adrenaline of having my stuff destroyed because someone losing in a 1v1, calls friends and therefore me getting crushed in a 5v1 rush. One thing we have always joked about is that "PvP happens somewhere outside", we never go there! We have no interest in who owns tech moons or, yet another story of how some ass hat spooned someone over xyz and disbanded some corp none of us are familiar with.. anyway I digress... Level 4s are great, would love to try Level 5s but, CCP moved all the 5s "somewhere outside", but I agree with the OP, player storylines are all well and good, but honestly?.. the whole how, why's and awesomeness of NPC antagonists are the bread and butter of our Eve game, we love it and just the thought of embellishing it makes me a very happy pilot. I'd have to endorse any plan to liven it up. |

Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'd recommend looking at the kind of backdrop Eve gives for storytelling both in-game and out of game.
A great mix of the two can be found at Clear Skies
The meta game side of Eve isn't my favorite but is also another avenue for a VERY varied source of stories. |

Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
187
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? Where are ANY innovations in PVE to make it more dynamic and alive in order to at least give players a canvass on which their imaginations can fill in the gaps? And don't tell me to go play ****ing SWTOR.
It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers. It annoys me to no end that so many EVE players hate sci fi. There's a sort of middle school-ish peer pressure to treat anything immersive as Santa Claus kid stuff. ****ing goons and other cynical leet "community born" pressure CCP to neglect immersive storytelling and dynamic PVE (and I mean just up to par with other MMOs) because it's not "emergent content" (and not about their stardom) etc. Such a ****ing waste of the world that CCP created.
Don't get me wrong. PVP in EVE is amazing. The sandbox is a thing of beauty. It's extremely awesome that some players have become famous and influential. The communities that have been formed are a unique thing in this world. And I want more people in 0.0 carving out little principalities and creating great dynamic emergent content as much as anyone. If that's where we're going then CCP needs seriously turn on the MWD and get us moving in that direction ASAP. In that case a lesser focus on empire PVE might make more sense.
But even if 0.0 were 10x as dynamic and populated as it is now it would still be great to have an environment in which the professional sci fi storytellers at CCP (who are getting payed for what? Maybe there's only one writer left) are able to tell the ongoing story of this world and give us interesting ways to be part of it. I love science fiction. I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. I don't want it from Mass Effect or Star Wars. i want it from EVE. Can SOMEONE tell me WHY that is so much to ask???!!!
Like banging my ****ing head against a wall.
GTFO |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3337
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:[quote=Solstice Project]40-60% of the people who play this game want what I want. Okay, okay. I get your point and you're not one of these dumb, demanding people, as i can see by your post.
That's fine.
But ... 40%-60% people who play this game. If this is the "majority is solo players" thingy, then i'll just add you on the pile of people who simply don't understand what the words said.
Think about it. If it were that many actual people, then they'd all be dumb morons because they play a game that totally doesn't cater to them and doesn't make them happy. For YEARS.
The quote doesn't mean what most people think it means. Mostly because they read it in exactly the way they want to read it.
Think. About. It.
Thanks. |

Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Elistea wrote:Angang Ostus wrote:A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? Where are ANY innovations in PVE to make it more dynamic and alive in order to at least give players a canvass on which their imaginations can fill in the gaps? And don't tell me to go play ****ing SWTOR.
It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers. It annoys me to no end that so many EVE players hate sci fi. There's a sort of middle school-ish peer pressure to treat anything immersive as Santa Claus kid stuff. ****ing goons and other cynical leet "community born" pressure CCP to neglect immersive storytelling and dynamic PVE (and I mean just up to par with other MMOs) because it's not "emergent content" (and not about their stardom) etc. Such a ****ing waste of the world that CCP created.
Don't get me wrong. PVP in EVE is amazing. The sandbox is a thing of beauty. It's extremely awesome that some players have become famous and influential. The communities that have been formed are a unique thing in this world. And I want more people in 0.0 carving out little principalities and creating great dynamic emergent content as much as anyone. If that's where we're going then CCP needs seriously turn on the MWD and get us moving in that direction ASAP. In that case a lesser focus on empire PVE might make more sense.
But even if 0.0 were 10x as dynamic and populated as it is now it would still be great to have an environment in which the professional sci fi storytellers at CCP (who are getting payed for what? Maybe there's only one writer left) are able to tell the ongoing story of this world and give us interesting ways to be part of it. I love science fiction. I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. I don't want it from Mass Effect or Star Wars. i want it from EVE. Can SOMEONE tell me WHY that is so much to ask???!!!
Like banging my ****ing head against a wall. GTFO
WE will not. |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3337
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Quote:Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? You make no sense. PvE provides no stories. Players provide stories. PvE doesn't provide any way to create new stories. Players create *real* stories. Stop hiding in a universe, which only exists in your head. EvE is as real as any science fiction universe can get. Yes and no. CCP mechanics restrict the dynamic nature of the "storytelling" which also create a backdrop for players effecting the story of Eve. Storyline wise Eve should be in a perpetual state of war between the factions, however this is hardly felt in places like Highsec/Low. "Storytelling" doesn't necessarily have to be PVE based, but instead can be used to influence player interaction. People tend to forget this is a MMO RPG expanding on storytelling aspect is a part of the game as well. This reminds me of why i am such a huge fan of CCP SoundWave.
Too bad he doesn't get what he wants, else we'd have actual meaningfull factional warfare ... ... but maybe we just aren't there *yet*. |

Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
387
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Soundwave did mentioned in Dev Q&A Stream before fanfest, that he hates how player's can't govern or dictate the actions of the four empires, essentially creating a disconnect between the backstory and the players. Apart from the battle of Caldari Prime there isn't much players can do that effects the outcome of the story. Role-playing is boring because it involves applying too many limitations on yourself for no reward.
If roleplayers could be voted into government and could call the shots for their faction it would make the storyline a lot more dynamic and immersive. Ofcourse rules would have to be put into to make sure some goonalt doesn't get voted in and declares a hulkageddon every other day. Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |

Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:Part of the point of eve is that the players ARE the story, and they make the story.
Yes, there is extensive lore, and background, but that is secondary to the story which players make themselves.
As was mentioned several times at FF....the stories and events of players are often better than the stories CCP come up with.
The new trailer even hints at the fall of the factions, and CCP seagull was giving hints towards more player based things.
Yes, CCP do events like the Battle for Caldari prime, but, unlike most other games, many events, storylines etc are best when done by players.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. |

Tauranon
Weeesearch
159
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ihazcheez Hashur wrote:Eve to me is absolutely about the story line. I dont really know anything of this 'emergent story', but in essence, for me atleast, and my friends that Eve is a place for us to jump on skype, grab a beer or two, and have fun testing our new ship builds running Level 4 missions. I'd LOVE to be able to try some level 5 missions, that would be awesome...
What you are asking for is an endless treadmill of slightly more difficult encounters that are mitigated by slightly improved gear, until you reach BIS for lots of your items and they have to go make a new expansion. There is a company that specialises in a game for that.
Note that despite being loss and combat averse I've done L5 missions, and DED 5s and 6s and all sorts of other lowsec content. I suggest that you start probing ded4s and running lookout, vigil and watch escalations and then see where the logical extension of that behavior takes you. Hint : I haven't actually ever lost a ship finishing the escalations - ie this stuff is all well within the grasp of the loss averse - and its all fun the first time round. |
|

Concurssi Mellenar
The Scope Gallente Federation
49
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Why have sci fi when you can have sci real? 0/5 OP He who controls the veld, controls the universe. |

Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Stegas Tyrano wrote: Ofcourse rules would have to be put into to make sure some goonalt doesn't get voted in and declares a hulkageddon every other day.
You say that like it would be a bad thing  |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3337
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:43:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Stegas Tyrano wrote: Ofcourse rules would have to be put into to make sure some goonalt doesn't get voted in and declares a hulkageddon every other day. You say that like it would be a bad thing  In context of our game, he doesn't make sense anyway. |

Tauranon
Weeesearch
159
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
Stegas Tyrano wrote:
If roleplayers could be voted into government and could call the shots for their faction it would make the storyline a lot more dynamic and immersive. Ofcourse rules would have to be put into to make sure some goonalt doesn't get voted in and declares a hulkageddon every other day.
There are 2 truly great events in MMO history imo - the Murder of Lord British and the Great War. Your "rules" would fail to deliver either again.
Is not understood by much of the playerbase, but the ability of people to play pirates and tyrants is vital to a healthy RP game.
|

Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
50
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:49:00 -
[45] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Angang Ostus wrote:[quote=Solstice Project]40-60% of the people who play this game want what I want. Okay, okay. I get your point and you're not one of these dumb, demanding people, as i can see by your post. That's fine. But ... 40%-60% people who play this game. If this is the "majority is solo players" thingy, then i'll just add you on the pile of people who simply don't understand what the words said. Think about it. If it were that many actual people, then they'd all be dumb morons because they play a game that totally doesn't cater to them and doesn't make them happy. For YEARS. The quote doesn't mean what most people think it means. Mostly because they read it in exactly the way they want to read it. Think. About. It. Thanks.
I mean that 40-60% of people who play EVE enjoy PVE that has an engaging story and very much want that to be a part of their gameplay. I think this group tends to lean towards what we're familiar with. That's PVE and stories. That's what almost all games are that aren't FPS. That to me is what made sense when I started playing EVE. The transition into PVP is neither smooth nor swift for most of us. I think most of us, if we're able to find our way into a situation in which we can really experience a variety of emergent content, will love it and swear by it from then on. I think most of us, once we get our bearings in PVP, will really dig it. I think most of that 40-60% would love to be part of an alliance in 0.0 and be valued contributors to their division/corp/alliance.
We'll still want to go on our adorable little role playing quests sometimes though. :) |

Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
388
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Stegas Tyrano wrote:
If roleplayers could be voted into government and could call the shots for their faction it would make the storyline a lot more dynamic and immersive. Ofcourse rules would have to be put into to make sure some goonalt doesn't get voted in and declares a hulkageddon every other day.
There are 2 truly great events in MMO history imo - the Murder of Lord British and the Great War. Your "rules" would fail to deliver either again. Is not understood by much of the playerbase, but the ability of people to play pirates and tyrants is vital to a healthy RP game.
The "rules" aren't trying to deliver that. Events that occur purely due to player interaction will always be far greater than the NPC backstory. The point in making the empires more interactive with the players is to let people who enjoy the backstory become part of it.
A player who gets voted into a factions government could decide to push for an invasion of null-sec. Imagine the four empires faction warfare militia's fighting the null-sec empires for space. It would add a whole new dynamic to the game, increase conflict and also get more people into awesome null-sec PVP. Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |

Alua Oresson
Demon-War-Lords Fatal Ascension
260
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
Stegas Tyrano wrote:Tauranon wrote:Stegas Tyrano wrote:
If roleplayers could be voted into government and could call the shots for their faction it would make the storyline a lot more dynamic and immersive. Ofcourse rules would have to be put into to make sure some goonalt doesn't get voted in and declares a hulkageddon every other day.
There are 2 truly great events in MMO history imo - the Murder of Lord British and the Great War. Your "rules" would fail to deliver either again. Is not understood by much of the playerbase, but the ability of people to play pirates and tyrants is vital to a healthy RP game. The "rules" aren't trying to deliver that. Events that occur purely due to player interaction will always be far greater than the NPC backstory. The point in making the empires more interactive with the players is to let people who enjoy the backstory become part of it. A player who gets voted into a factions government could decide to push for an invasion of null-sec. Imagine the four empires faction warfare militia's fighting the null-sec empires for space. It would add a whole new dynamic to the game, increase conflict and also get more people into awesome null-sec PVP.
I'd be all for this. I wonder how high sec people would react when we start dropping SBUs in high sec and taking sov there though. http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/ |

March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
656
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alua Oresson wrote: I'd be all for this. I wonder how high sec people would react when we start dropping SBUs in high sec and taking sov there though.
let me guess: nobody will care as long as CONCORD is there.
|

Roime
Shiva Furnace
2655
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
Some people rather read stories than make them, live them and change them.
Eve is not for these people, books and movies are. EVE is for people who don't settle for being a passive consumers. We are the kids that go through the door to Narnia, you are the kids reading about us.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
246
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
mechtech wrote: The game itself is somewhat intentionally left void of NPC interaction in order to facilitate player storylines instead.
What player storylines
Brooks Puuntai wrote:"Storytelling" doesn't necessarily have to be PVE based, but instead can be used to influence player interaction. People tend to forget this is a MMORPG expanding on storytelling aspect is a part of the game as well.
Or more preferably have player interaction actually influencing the PVE world and not just some number in faction warfare window. Presentation is what Eve is lacking. |
|

Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
883
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
You mention SW:TOR and GW2...
I don't think you are looking for science fiction (and science fiction some 20,000 years in the future would be pretty silly anyways) but for fantasy. TEST alt - don't trust. |

MrDiao
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
Novel writing online?
I'm somewhat agree with the op the there are few backstories inside the game. For people who saying "create story yourself", I would say that you can't create much story until ccp allows player to add more semi-permanent inputs to the game |

Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
246
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
MrDiao wrote:Novel writing online?
I'm somewhat agree with the op the there are few backstories inside the game. For people who saying "create story yourself", I would say that you can't create much story until ccp allows player to add more semi-permanent inputs to the game
What do I need Eve for to create that story
If I have to "imagine" all parts of the story why am I subbing? |

Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
3860
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
This makes me laugh.
EVE is a sandbox because YOU have to try and get involved in these stories. There has been corporations and alliances getting involved with the stories and the EVE dev team are doing a fantastic job at the moment keeping the storylines rolling. Stop complaining and go enjoy! |

MrDiao
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nyla Skin wrote:MrDiao wrote:Novel writing online?
I'm somewhat agree with the op the there are few backstories inside the game. For people who saying "create story yourself", I would say that you can't create much story until ccp allows player to add more semi-permanent inputs to the game What do I need Eve for to create that story If I have to "imagine" all parts of the story why am I subbing?
I totally agree that some people can just play eve without any in game backgrounds, like a fps shooting game.
But being plain hasn't been the intention, I assume. |

Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
Roime wrote:Some people rather read stories than make them, live them and change them.
Eve is not for these people, books and movies are. EVE is for people who don't settle for being a passive consumers. We are the kids that go through the door to Narnia, you are the kids reading about us.
Cool. Tell us about your awesome life in Narnia. Do you fly around and shoot people? Talk about who did what to who when and where? Awesome. Yeah you're right. No stories about the fictional world of New Eden should be told. And if they are there should, at all costs, be no interactive aspect to them whatsoever. Because that would be passively consuming something. That should never happen because it offends people like you. We should all just give up on that. We're defective for somehow liking storylines and dynamic PVE while still loving EVE. We should get nothing. We should all just leave. |

Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
246
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:02:00 -
[57] - Quote
MrDiao wrote:
I totally agree that some people can just play eve without any in game backgrounds, like a fps shooting game.
But being plain hasn't been the intention, I assume.
I did not mean that we should play without backgrounds. I am saying that CCP hasn't really done much to make our game experiences more lively. For example, I remember the Great War being mentioned in the eve timeline thread. Now, besides some outposts that are outwardly clones of each other and some titan wrecks floating somewhere, what kind of permanent mark did the Great War have on the galaxy? Thats right, none. The visual representation of the "player stories" is what is missing.
And when there are some remotely interesting stories, they tend to be all out of character. Take the destroyed monument in Jita. Nice touch, but a memoir of an out-of-game event.
There are three things that I am looking for in a game (besides playable game mechanics): sandbox world, immersion and customizability. Eve has basically none of the two latter. |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
2655
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
See, there again you want to be told stories instead of experiencing them.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

Dalmont Delantee
EXPCS Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance
126
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
OP this is EVE not wow not swtor not anything else, this is about our stories not the backstory.
The PVE is filler, not the whole point of the game, the production, destruction and meta are the game.
|

Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
246
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
Roime wrote:See, there again you want to be told stories instead of experiencing them.
No, I want the other players to actually able to see the effects of the stories that happened. (preferably ingame). It all looks the same. |
|

baltec1
Bat Country
6151
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:Roime wrote:Some people rather read stories than make them, live them and change them.
Eve is not for these people, books and movies are. EVE is for people who don't settle for being a passive consumers. We are the kids that go through the door to Narnia, you are the kids reading about us.
Cool. Tell us about your awesome life in Narnia. Do you fly around and shoot people? Talk about who did what to who when and where? Awesome. Yeah you're right. No stories about the fictional world of New Eden should be told. And if they are there should, at all costs, be no interactive aspect to them whatsoever. Because that would be passively consuming something. That should never happen because it offends people like you. We should all just give up on that. We're defective for somehow liking storylines and dynamic PVE while still loving EVE. We should get nothing. We should all just leave.
Most of the best stories in the MMO world are purely player made. The great war, the EVE Bank scam, the first titan down, the battle of 6NJ, the seige of NOL and VFK slaughterhouse. I have seen many things in the years I have been playing and quite frankly, CCP can't produce a better storyline because theirs would just be scripted while ours are organic. I even have my own story as the mad mega guy that I have built up over the years. Tales of being the lone survivor and fighting to get back home. My favorate is the one that happened a few years back. Now, this is a story all about how. My life got flipped-turned upside down. And I'd like to take a minute, Just sit right there, I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air.
|

Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
366
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
I'm sure it happens in EVE. The people creating Sci Fi and role playing it just aren't stoopid enough to put it on the forums to have it trampled by the epeen gang. R.I.P. Vile Rat |

Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
246
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:19:00 -
[63] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: I even have my own story as the mad mega guy that I have built up over the years. Tales of being the lone survivor and fighting to get back home. My favorate is the one that happened a few years back. Now, this is a story all about how. My life got flipped-turned upside down. And I'd like to take a minute, Just sit right there, I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air.
My imagination could use a little support in order to have my disbelief suspended. So if you undock, how can I tell you apart from the other 1000 guys in a similar ship? |

baltec1
Bat Country
6151
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:26:00 -
[64] - Quote
Nyla Skin wrote:
My imagination could use a little support in order to have my disbelief suspended. So if you undock, how can I tell you apart from the other 1000 guys in a similar ship?
Im the megathron pretending to be a [insert ship here] |

Concurssi Mellenar
The Scope Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 15:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
Concurssi Mellenar wrote:Why have sci fi when you can have sci real? 0/5 OP I've just remembered this video, a key reason why I started playing EVE Online: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64 He who controls the veld, controls the universe. |

Call Rollard
K For Kill
40
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 15:47:00 -
[66] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction?
It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers.
I can automatically tell this is a troll post by reading the first paragraph and part of the second one. I play EVE, I even Role-play often as well. And I am an EVE player and I love Sci-Fi, not just EVE but Sci-Fi in general. If you are complaining about the lack of immersion and no story telling, you are playing the very wrong part of EVE and possibly only ever do mission running in high secand nothing else.
And there is a storyline and storytelling happening all the time in EVE, you are acting like the Caldari Navy Titan going down event wasn't ever real and lots of other events.
Please learn more about EVE before saying stuff that isn't true on forums. |

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
740
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:02:00 -
[67] - Quote
Try swtor. |

Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
737
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:10:00 -
[68] - Quote
The PVE in EVE sucks, and the attitude of the developers seems to be that it's supposed to.
This doesn't bother me. |

Keera Keikira
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:42:00 -
[69] - Quote
..EVE People hate sci-fi? That's news to me. 
I love sci-fi and I'm always looking for ways to immerse myself in my character and the game. It's hard, but it's doable, and I wish there were more roleplay elements in the game in general. (I wouldn't know what to suggest though.) |

Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1435
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 17:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote: I mean that 40-60% of people who play EVE enjoy PVE that has an engaging story and very much want that to be a part of their gameplay. I think this group tends to lean towards what we're familiar with. That's PVE and stories. That's what almost all games are that aren't FPS. That to me is what made sense when I started playing EVE. The transition into PVP is neither smooth nor swift for most of us. I think most of us, if we're able to find our way into a situation in which we can really experience a variety of emergent content, will love it and swear by it from then on. I think most of us, once we get our bearings in PVP, will really dig it. I think most of that 40-60% would love to be part of an alliance in 0.0 and be valued contributors to their division/corp/alliance.
We'll still want to go on our adorable little role playing quests sometimes though. :)
The problem is that you're complaining about CCP not catering to you wanting to consume "just the exciting parts" of stories. Provided that you're not playing solo, and your story is just "went to mine, got ganked again today", then the exciting parts will come in time; just as they have for all of us.
Just for an example of numbers / dates:
Stories - EVE The Great War - Jan - Oct 2007 m0o - June 2003 Battle of Asakai - Feb 2013 EBANK - Aug 2009 Fall of BOB - Feb 2009 more stories than I care to count
Stories - books & film Lord of the Rings - Third Age 3018 (1417 Shire Reckoning) - August - Frodo leaves The Shire; Third Age 3019 (1418 Shire Reckoning) - March - The One Ring is destroyed --- 18 months of "adventure" cut down to a few thousand pages of text, and ~9 hours of film.
Harry Potter -- seven (?) years from beginning to end of the "adventure", with lots of other side-things happening. Condensed to ~7,000 pages of text, and ~20 hours of film.
Star Wars (episodes 4-6) - approximately four years of conflict between The Empire and The Rebel Alliance, condensed to about 6 hours of film.
Now, not every day will be exciting -- I mean, some days will simply end up at "4th May, mined 1,5 million m3 of rock with the fleet". But there are other ways to make it seem more than just the "every day"
for example, if you've got a corp of newbies who're just getting their feet wet in PvP ... someone did an awesome hero tackle -> "parade" (with fireworks) to give him a new Atron Someone pulled off some awesome 1 on 1 he should have lost to -> present an award in front of the whole corp "hey, we're all taking these Rifters and making a run for the Eve gate!"
If they're getting into mining: parade for getting their first exhumer parade for mining a million m3 of rock in their lifetime with the corp
Yeah, they're little things ... maybe even meaningless things ... but when you take enough little things, it really adds up.
Hell, there have been times where people have been hard up in RL (lost a job, ****** breakup, etc) and the corp banded together to get them something. There was one guy who we bought a GTC for right after he lost his job ... he was one of the better* PVP pilots we had the next week when we got dec'd.
*"Better" as in "let's undock in our scrub cruisers and try killing these guys!" ... and reshipping if he died. From what I remember, he logged in every day and got enough of the guys fired up about getting shot at to at least have 1:1 odds that entire week.
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13963
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 17:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
HuhGǪ
The reason i play EVE is because it has the most immersion and the most fantastic story-telling of any game currently in existence, and because it's actually true to scifi (both soft and hard) and not just [whatever] recycled in space. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |

Commissar Kate
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2076
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 17:45:00 -
[72] - Quote
I hate fantasy and love scifi. So yay for EvE giving me a mmo I will actually play.
And I still love the fact that there are no aliens in EvE, that's a plus in my book. Set Lasers for Fun!!! |

Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
272
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 17:56:00 -
[73] - Quote
I'm not sure if anyone else has noted this for you:
There is a forum dedicated to live events.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=4229
Live Events have been an on-going thing for quite awhile with dynamic and on the fly events that happen at least weekly (and sometimes daily) of which the Caldari Prime event was simply one of many.
Next, there is a game news channel:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/
There you can learn about what is going on in the game from the NPC side of things. I've love to see player organization stuff in the reporting there as well but I can understand the the overhead of monitoring that would be challenging although, personally, I think it'd be totally worthwhile.
Beyond that, since this is EVE, you can create your own dynamic and emergent story.
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Julius Rigel
53
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 19:04:00 -
[74] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:Where's the storytelling? This isn't a movie, bud. You ARE the storytelling. Try undocking once in a while and maybe you'll see that the gameplay is the narrative, not some amateur author posting his IC blog on IGS (although we love those guys as well GÖÑ). Do YOU like to undock? |

Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 20:01:00 -
[75] - Quote
Tippia wrote:HuhGǪ
The reason i play EVE is because it has the most immersion and the most fantastic story-telling of any game currently in existence, and because it's actually true to scifi (both soft and hard) and not just [whatever] recycled in space.
That's why I play EVE too. I'm seeing a pattern here. A lot of people are defending the sandbox as if I represent a group that wishes to detract from it. I'm seeing a lot of defensive language. "This isn't a movie, bud." Etc., etc., etc. When I talk about what WE want--dynamic PVE, real PVE iteration, and an infusion of content to populate the empty vastness of New Eden with fictional people, places and things that stimulate the imaginations of those of us who love to imagine, who don't want absolutely EVERYTHING to be player interaction based--I hear nothing about how to balance it with emergent content, nothing about how to improve PVE. I'm only hearing people defending their position as if its under attack. Everything that we love about EVE can develop without compromise while an outlet is provided for those of us that want some stories to be provided to us so that WE can tell them to ourselves in our own way as we experience them.
To be clear, I'm not talking about setting up a whole structure so that hard core role players have endless interactive content to help them stay IC in PVE. That does detract from the sandbox because it cloisters those groups away in a pretty fundamentally irreconcilable bubble. I'm talking about, in the context of the sandbox, having side opportunities to be part of a fun sci fi story. That could mean mini epic arc missions from agents that take us through a storyline. It could mean more interesting places and things to find in space. Considering that most of us have to gun farm anyway at times to earn money, why not make that more dynamic? Why do you insist that PVE must be absolutely lifeless when its something we have to live with.
Enough about what EVE is. We get it. That is not under attack. Emergent content is the primary focus of both players and devs. 40-60% of people who play this game REALLY want PVE iteration. If CCP doesn't have enough devs for that then they need to hire as many as is needed to give new life to the fictional universe as something we can interact with. That makes the game more diverse, interesting, varied, and balanced, not to mention more attractive to prospective players who will all be pulled into the sandbox eventually, especially as CCP makes that more dynamic.
Regardless of what all the anti-any-interesting-PVE people have to say, I speak for tens of thousands of people when I say want, I NEED PVE iteration! |

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
743
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 20:07:00 -
[76] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:40-60% of people who play this game REALLY want PVE iteration
does it hurt when you pull numbers from your ass?
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Angang Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 20:34:00 -
[77] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Angang Ostus wrote:40-60% of people who play this game REALLY want PVE iteration does it hurt when you pull numbers from your ass?
I think it's a safe assessment considering that around 50% of players focus much more on solo or small group PVE (including non com activity) and almost not at all on PVP. It's safe to say those players would prefer PVE to not suck so much and would be delighted if it received real comprehensive iteration. |

Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
63
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 22:10:00 -
[78] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:The problem is that you're complaining about CCP not catering to you wanting to consume "just the exciting parts" of stories. Provided that you're not playing solo, and your story is just "went to mine, got ganked again today", then the exciting parts will come in time; just as they have for all of us.
First of all, great examples in your post above. That kind of stuff is absolutely the heart and soul of EVE. Actually I think PVE iteration adds to everything you mentioned. It gives players more interesting things to do together and, more importantly, it enables PVEers to pursue a more interesting and engaging "career", which they can focus on as a fully engaged member of a community, contributing to emergent content. A rich player environment will not be hampered by adding depth to the world through designed content. In fact it's just the opposite.
Do you guys really just want an empty sandbox filled with nothing but players in their ships, stations, and roids? Only war, economics, and intrigue to provide any content? All PVE activities being reduced to Pong for money? You want CCP to give us NOTHING in the way of depth to our environment? You want no interesting places or objects to be seeded in the world? You want no stories that aren't player generated? None? How does that benefit the community?
Do think that by doing your damndest to squeeze the life out of any effort to breath life into PVE that you'll somehow amputate a gangrenous section of the player base that is holding EVE back from fulfilling its full potential? Listen. You. Are. Over. Reacting.
Please. Epeeners. Allow cool things to happen. Stop your boorish oppression of those of us who want to interact with a crafted fictional world to some extent. Open your eyes and accept diversity. You do as much by your condescension and stubborn horse vision to alienate carebears and keep the community divided and fractured as they do by snuggling up in high sec running missions and mining.
There will always, always, ALWAYS be a significant portion of players--never less than half in my estimation--who prefer PVE gameplay to PVP, even if they're fully integrated into an active community in their corp and alliance in 0.0. And that's excellent! If the 0.0 alliances are going to evolve into more dynamic, fully realized communities they need diversity! We want a rich environment full of people busily doing all the things available to do, not 90% of alliance members being forced into either a front line military structure or non com logisitcs.
The "establishment" in 0.0 would be well advised to find a way to create a space for PVEers to be a part of their communities and become taxed citizens. This would give alliances enough money to free their PVP lovers to never have to grind ISK and always be looking for fights. It would also provide a substantial military reserve. Those PVEers could be fully integrated into the community, into the sandbox, all the while simply pursuing their chosen "career." Not everyone wants to PVP, mine, build, or play the market all the time. Some of us want to PVE. We also want to be deeply engaged in emergent content.
PVEers should be encouraged, warmly and invitingly, to come and fully participate in the sandbox, to be part of the story that we're all telling together as they ply their trade. Meanwhile, their trade should get some love so that it's not so ****ing boring. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13966
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 23:14:00 -
[79] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:When I talk about what WE want--dynamic PVE, real PVE iteration, and an infusion of content to populate the empty vastness of New Eden with fictional people, places and things that stimulate the imaginations of those of us who love to imagine, who don't want absolutely EVERYTHING to be player interaction based--I hear nothing about how to balance it with emergent content, nothing about how to improve PVE. Who are these GÇ£weGÇ¥? The content you're after already exists. It's just not in the form of PvE because it would be a complete waste of everyone's time to duplicate (in much worse and less coherent form) what the game already provides automatically.
Dynamic PvE by very definition does not have a coherent story; a coherent story means a static script; neither fit in world where the story is dictated by player action and there are no instances or player-specific world shaping and by virtue of being rule-bound no matter what, it can never be emergent.
Quote:40-60% of people who play this game REALLY want PVE iteration. What is this claim based on? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |

Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
63
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 00:32:00 -
[80] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Angang Ostus wrote:When I talk about what WE want--dynamic PVE, real PVE iteration, and an infusion of content to populate the empty vastness of New Eden with fictional people, places and things that stimulate the imaginations of those of us who love to imagine, who don't want absolutely EVERYTHING to be player interaction based--I hear nothing about how to balance it with emergent content, nothing about how to improve PVE. Who are these GÇ£weGÇ¥? Angang Ostus wrote:40-60% of people who play this game REALLY want PVE iteration. What is this claim based on?
Here's the "WE": http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2013/04/fanfest-day-four-skal.html
"One of the interesting statistics to come out of the Economy Roundtable: 50% of all EVE players "play solo", whatever that means." --Jester's Trek on Fan Fest
The 40-60% claim is based on the logic that the 50% referred to above are likely to be very interested in something, anything being done to iterate the part of the game they spend most of their time on.
I think a lot of those players are probably categorized as "solo" because they focus on missions, markets, manufacturing and exploration, so their "career" is pursued in a solo fashion. However a large number of these players are interacting a lot with corpies on coms, including basic socializing, gameplay troubleshooting, and talking about what's going on in the meta. A lot of them occasionally co-op with corpies but mostly rely on themselves. There's not always someone else around (who's willing) to co-op with, especially for explorers since they're itenerate. The point is, most want to be interacting with others as much as they can within what they see as their limitations. The way to integrate these guys into the sandbox is to allow them to do what they do in the context of a dynamic community (division/corp/alliance) in which they are a valued member and one of the moving parts of the whole. That starts with providing enrichment and iteration for their EVE career: PVE.
Tippia wrote:The content you're after already exists. It's just not in the form of PvE because it would be a complete waste of everyone's time to duplicate (in much worse and less coherent form) what the game already provides automatically.
That's your opinion. Again, probably about half of subscribers disagree with you. You treat PVE as an afterthought, a piece of s*** you can't figure out how to flush. That fact is that PVE is a vital part of everything that goes on in EVE. It's a pillar of the economy, it provides PVPers with targets, and it provides a focus for a large portion of players--a "career"--which not only gives them their livelihood but also gives them a sense of identity and role within a community of players constantly interacting. These people should not be treated as untouchables whose choice of role in the game brands them as "obstacles". On the contrary that role should be embraced--especially since PVE is so vital to the ecology--and we should be discussing how PVEers can be drawn out of their shells to participate more in the sandbox.
If more opportunities for PVE, especially low level, are seeded throughout 0.0, that kind of player will be able to live out there and contribute to those communities. That could very well be the tipping point for 0.0 entities becoming self sufficient "nations" unto themselves. If the shift that CCP Seagull alluded to in the Fanfest keynote is to take place there needs to be a transition of carebears from high sec to 0.0. Most of those folks will probably be happy to take on more responsibilities and risks as the price of more immersion and community, but many of them will still be carebears. Forever. You will not change them. They will fight if they need to but that won't be their first choice. If you want this game to move forward you need make a bridge with these people. That means PVE iteration to that end. And if ANY such attention is being payed to it, it follows that it's quality and variety should be improved.
Tippia wrote:Dynamic PvE by very definition does not have a coherent story; a coherent story means a static script; neither fit in world where the story is dictated by player action and there are no instances or player-specific world shaping and by virtue of being rule-bound no matter what, it can never be emergent.
I agree. As I stated above PVE need not compete with emergent content. It's an activity that players do some of the time within the context of emergent gameplay and dynamic community. It can easily function as a career pursued by players who are fully engaged with others. Some of it can be dynamic, some static. Variety is the spice of life.
PVE is part of the EVE economy. If you take it out, then we'll all be mining and manufacturing to stay in ships. If you leave it in, improve it!! It's as simple as that!
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MrDiao
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 00:37:00 -
[81] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Just for an example of numbers / dates: Stories - EVE The Great War - Jan - Oct 2007 m0o - June 2003 Battle of Asakai - Feb 2013 EBANK - Aug 2009 Fall of BOB - Feb 2009 more stories than I care to count
What you saying also reveals the fact that even these biggest in-game events have left no marks inside the game, and people who want to know the story have to open a website to read the novel, which is pretty off to most of the in-game population.
For example, for the battle of Asakai or any large slaughter of super caps, why wouldn't ccp (or automatically by system) create a bacon with many capital/non-capital wrecks saying "A great capital fights between xxx and xxx was happened here, xxx Nyx, xxx Aeon was lost", and such. They can also invite both part to write a short comment and add them to the bacon.
It's the real player created story, rather than the novels looks like what come from a parallel world. |

Aurora Roddez
XXXREDRUMXXX
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 01:13:00 -
[82] - Quote
Alua Oresson wrote:Stegas Tyrano wrote:Tauranon wrote:Stegas Tyrano wrote:
If roleplayers could be voted into government and could call the shots for their faction it would make the storyline a lot more dynamic and immersive. Ofcourse rules would have to be put into to make sure some goonalt doesn't get voted in and declares a hulkageddon every other day.
There are 2 truly great events in MMO history imo - the Murder of Lord British and the Great War. Your "rules" would fail to deliver either again. Is not understood by much of the playerbase, but the ability of people to play pirates and tyrants is vital to a healthy RP game. The "rules" aren't trying to deliver that. Events that occur purely due to player interaction will always be far greater than the NPC backstory. The point in making the empires more interactive with the players is to let people who enjoy the backstory become part of it. A player who gets voted into a factions government could decide to push for an invasion of null-sec. Imagine the four empires faction warfare militia's fighting the null-sec empires for space. It would add a whole new dynamic to the game, increase conflict and also get more people into awesome null-sec PVP. I'd be all for this. I wonder how high sec people would react when we start dropping SBUs in high sec and taking sov there though.
Would make logistics a hell of a lot easier :) |

Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 01:17:00 -
[83] - Quote
Aurora Roddez wrote:Alua Oresson wrote:Stegas Tyrano wrote:Tauranon wrote:Stegas Tyrano wrote:
If roleplayers could be voted into government and could call the shots for their faction it would make the storyline a lot more dynamic and immersive. Ofcourse rules would have to be put into to make sure some goonalt doesn't get voted in and declares a hulkageddon every other day.
There are 2 truly great events in MMO history imo - the Murder of Lord British and the Great War. Your "rules" would fail to deliver either again. Is not understood by much of the playerbase, but the ability of people to play pirates and tyrants is vital to a healthy RP game. The "rules" aren't trying to deliver that. Events that occur purely due to player interaction will always be far greater than the NPC backstory. The point in making the empires more interactive with the players is to let people who enjoy the backstory become part of it. A player who gets voted into a factions government could decide to push for an invasion of null-sec. Imagine the four empires faction warfare militia's fighting the null-sec empires for space. It would add a whole new dynamic to the game, increase conflict and also get more people into awesome null-sec PVP. I'd be all for this. I wonder how high sec people would react when we start dropping SBUs in high sec and taking sov there though. Would make logistics a hell of a lot easier :)
Jita by July
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Tauranon
Weeesearch
159
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 08:01:00 -
[84] - Quote
MrDiao wrote:Velicitia wrote:Just for an example of numbers / dates: Stories - EVE The Great War - Jan - Oct 2007 m0o - June 2003 Battle of Asakai - Feb 2013 EBANK - Aug 2009 Fall of BOB - Feb 2009 more stories than I care to count What you saying also reveals the fact that even these biggest in-game events have left no marks inside the game, and people who want to know the story have to open a website to read the novel, which is pretty off to most of the in-game population. For example, for the battle of Asakai or any large slaughter of super caps, why wouldn't ccp (or automatically by system) create a bacon with many capital/non-capital wrecks saying "A great capital fights between xxx and xxx was happened here, xxx Nyx, xxx Aeon was lost", and such. They can also invite both part to write a short comment and add them to the bacon. It's the real player created story, rather than the novels looks like what come from a parallel world.
The game is experiential. ie if you were to raise an army and go take space, you are unlikely to come into contention with the losers of the greatwar (ie you'd have to seek out the remnants) but you could easily come into conflict with the winners, even if you chose to not confront them directly. In both cases the form of that entity was shaped by the outcome of the great war.
ie the monument you seek exists in the game as the state of the game today.
I do however find your idea of creating bacon from supercap kills to be intriguing and many pigs might be quietly relieved at losing the bacon role.
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Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1437
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 10:07:00 -
[85] - Quote
MrDiao wrote:Velicitia wrote:Just for an example of numbers / dates: Stories - EVE The Great War - Jan - Oct 2007 m0o - June 2003 Battle of Asakai - Feb 2013 EBANK - Aug 2009 Fall of BOB - Feb 2009 more stories than I care to count What you saying also reveals the fact that even these biggest in-game events have left no marks inside the game, and people who want to know the story have to open a website to read the novel, which is pretty off to most of the in-game population. For example, for the battle of Asakai or any large slaughter of super caps, why wouldn't ccp (or automatically by system) create a bacon with many capital/non-capital wrecks saying "A great capital fights between xxx and xxx was happened here, xxx Nyx, xxx Aeon was lost", and such. They can also invite both part to write a short comment and add them to the bacon. It's the real player created story, rather than the novels looks like what come from a parallel world.
I like that idea ... but it would have to be limited somehow to the "important" things, like Cyv0k's Titan (well, that's still floating around), or the battle of Asakai, or the Jita Riots (the broken statue). The thing is, most of those "real stories" are little things or things that don't deserve a trophy in the system in which they occurred.
For example, in the true stories, there's a recount (and pretty terribad, unfortunately) of the GHSC infiltration of Ubiqua Seraph, or EBANK, but most of them are little things like "Well, I was solo in a C1 until someone else moved in ... thank god they were nice ...(stuff) ... they left me the hulk they built inside, but it got 'sploded a few days later when some not-so-nice people came knocking".
TO F&I!
Angang Ostus wrote:First of all, great examples in your post above. That kind of stuff is absolutely the heart and soul of EVE. Actually I think PVE iteration adds to everything you mentioned. It gives players more interesting things to do together and, more importantly, it enables PVEers to pursue a more interesting and engaging "career", which they can focus on as a fully engaged member of a community, contributing to emergent content. A rich player environment will not be hampered by adding depth to the world through designed content. In fact it's just the opposite. (more stuff I don't have room for)
Wow, um, you totally went off the road here. What of anything that I said brought around the rest of the post?
I think I see what you're after. It sounds like you want a PVE storyline that you can consume that doesn't require the interaction with other players of the game (due to "us" wanting it, and something about 50% of eve players play solo). Or, at least that's what it sounds like. The thing is, that isn't what EVE is about -- the entire story, be it through chronicles or what the players have done is focused on the human element.
It is that human element, and the conflict between people that drives the story ... this isn't the type of game where you just role-play as a farmer thrown into the midst of a galactic war, or any one of the other various plotlines that start off RPG-style games (or any other story-telling medium).
What you're calling for (more PVE, and stuff), at least in the way that I'm reading it, won't do things the way you think they will. I mean, just look around the forums -- the miners (botters) are all up in arms about depleting ice, and the nullsec industry buffs. CCP is giving the PVE side *exactly* what you're calling for, and yet you (collectively as PVE players) don't want it.
Sounds like your alleged "we" isn't as cohesive as you imagine -- even the current "PVE stuff that was supposed to bring people together" isn't even doing that. You have people running 2 and 3 and 16 accounts so they can get more of the spoils of w-space or incursions or mining or whatever. All this shows me is that "you" only want more stuff that can be easily farmed. PVE players don't want to work together for any length of time longer than the bare minimum needed to learn how to farm it themselves.
We _want_ you to come and participate in the sandbox. Thing is, "the sandbox" is so much more than "went out, ratted for 2 hours" that you seem to want. The true life in EVE is in those really, really good "rats" that are red boxes instead of red crosses. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |

March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
657
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 10:33:00 -
[86] - Quote
MrDiao wrote: What you saying also reveals the fact that even these biggest in-game events have left no marks inside the game, and people who want to know the story have to open a website to read the novel, which is pretty off to most of the in-game population.
exactly. even spending a lot of time in forums i hardly can say anything about BoB and all this "great player made stories". Looks like they are not so great to start with.
MrDiao wrote: For example, for the battle of Asakai or any large slaughter of super caps, why wouldn't ccp (or automatically by system) create a bacon with many capital/non-capital wrecks saying "A great capital fights between xxx and xxx was happened here, xxx Nyx, xxx Aeon was lost", and such. They can also invite both part to write a short comment and add them to the bacon.
AFAIK big capital/supercapital battles happens quite often. Well it was this way before goons won Eve Online and killed 0.0 Asakai was big event but not something important enough to make a beacon. Yes, lots of ships dead and lots of people spend time there. Some 2nd-rate news agencies posted news about this. But it didn't make any changes to low-sec or 0.0 or high-sec.
There was lots of battles where people lost capitals. I remember some of them. For example when Gypsies killed 7 titans of Red Alliance. Or when PL killed 13 or 15 supercarriers of AAA in Delve 2012 campaign.
I guess if CCP starts to put beacons about every big event at some point every system will have 1-2 such beacons. So they will not do it.
MrDiao wrote:It's the real player created story, rather than the novels looks like what come from a parallel world. yes, there are player created stories. And players create stories every day. And most of them doesn't worth any memory. And unless of real world there is almost none of player created stories which changes anything in Eve Online.
It's like goon from alliance panel said (i can mess with details here): - i've burned Jita 2 times - i've captured Delve 5 times - i've captured North 2 times
BTW: can anybody tell the difference between 1st and 2nd Burn Jita? Or between 3rd and 4rd Delve invasions by goons? And which influence on whole Eve Online made this event? |

Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
64
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 16:30:00 -
[87] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:I think I see what you're after. It sounds like you want a PVE storyline that you can consume that doesn't require the interaction with other players of the game (due to "us" wanting it, and something about 50% of eve players play solo). Or, at least that's what it sounds like. The thing is, that isn't what EVE is about -- the entire story, be it through chronicles or what the players have done is focused on the human element.
It is that human element, and the conflict between people that drives the story ... this isn't the type of game where you just role-play as a farmer thrown into the midst of a galactic war, or any one of the other various plotlines that start off RPG-style games (or any other story-telling medium).
What you're calling for (more PVE, and stuff), at least in the way that I'm reading it, won't do things the way you think they will. I mean, just look around the forums -- the miners (botters) are all up in arms about depleting ice, and the nullsec industry buffs. CCP is giving the PVE side *exactly* what you're calling for, and yet you (collectively as PVE players) don't want it.
Sounds like your alleged "we" isn't as cohesive as you imagine -- even the current "PVE stuff that was supposed to bring people together" isn't even doing that. You have people running 2 and 3 and 16 accounts so they can get more of the spoils of w-space or incursions or mining or whatever. All this shows me is that "you" only want more stuff that can be easily farmed. PVE players don't want to work together for any length of time longer than the bare minimum needed to learn how to farm it themselves.
We _want_ you to come and participate in the sandbox. Thing is, "the sandbox" is so much more than "went out, ratted for 2 hours" that you seem to want. The true life in EVE is in those really, really good "rats" that are red boxes instead of red crosses.
I'm not defending solo play as a"way of life" in EVE. To commit to it is misguided. By "us" I only mean that at least 50% of players engage in PVE more than PVP, and it follows that those players would love to see that aspect of the game given some serious love, and I think we deserve it. That is all.
I agree a lot of solo players in EVE have very bad habits, including myself to some extent. It's not a game that works long term solo. I'm not hoping for an enhanced PVE experience so that it'll be more fun to play solo all the time. In fact, speaking for myself, I would prefer to be fly solo as little as possible from here on out. As for those stuck in solo land, let's not hold back iteration for fear of what they'll do with it.
Basically, I want EVE to feel even more real and dynamic and be full of even more different things I can do. I want to be able to be in a small group roam, then go off and find some signatures (that takes me off on a little story/hunt for something/etc), then go fight in an arena, then fight in a fleet battle, then go on a mini-epic arc series of missions, then go mining (no f*** that), then mess with PI, then escort some miners, go on another small group roam, and so on. Basically I want the variety that already there, the sort of "cycle" that's already in place. I just want the PVE part to be more interesting. Burn me at the stake.
You talk as if PVE wasn't already in the game and you're arguing against it being added. It's already here and it's not going anywhere. The economy would fall apart without it. Riddle me this: why not iterate something that is fundamental to the game? Why leave it mothballed in its current not-changed-at-all-for-4-years state? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13971
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 16:50:00 -
[88] - Quote
So you're extrapolating some pretty huge conclusions based on a reference to a comment on a number that the commenter doesn't even understand. RiiiightGǪ
The reason those players are categorised as GÇ£soloGÇ¥ is because they don't do whatever they do in groups. This has almost nothing to do with PvE, and almost everything to do with most activities simply not being done in groups. There are no group sell orders; no group industry (other than some high-end resource collection); very little group ISK-grinding (since, by design, it's almost all competitive and thus directly harmful to do as a group).
Quote:That's your opinion. Again, probably about half of subscribers disagree with you. You treat PVE as an afterthought, a piece of s*** you can't figure out how to flush. Fits the development of PvE fairly well, I'd sayGǪ
PvE in EVE has always had one purpose and one purpose alone: to inject ISK at one end and extract it at the other. The stories being weaved between those endpoints were up to the players to produce. The reason you see a lot of people engage in PvE is because they want ISK GÇö a story would just be more bloated screens of text to click through to get to that ISK. The source of the above numbers is the same source that concluded that what we're seeing is simply a cycle of GÇ£get ISK GåÆ blow ISK on fun stuff GåÆ get more ISKGÇ¥, and what you're proposing is to short-circuit that cycle into GÇ£get ISK GåÆ get ISKGÇ¥ (which would require the ISK to be removed as a factor, leaving only the underlying GÇ£funGÇ¥ that people skip over as fast as possible).
Quote:PVE is part of the EVE economy. If you take it out, then we'll all be mining and manufacturing to stay in ships. If you leave it in, improve it!! It's as simple as that! Eh, not quite. PvE is part of the EVE economy because it functions as the two end-points of ISK GÇö if we take it out, then it doesn't matter what we'll be doing since the ISK would run out. At the same time, if we removed PvE, it could trivially be replaced by some other faucet and sink mechanism that would still let most people stay away from mining and manufacturing.
The problem with your entire thesis is that it seems to assume that GÇ£soloGÇ¥ = PvE and that doing PvE = having an interest in any kind of story. Both are highly dubious assumptions. For many, an GÇ£improvementGÇ¥ of PvE would be to include even less story and just provide more efficient ISK cash-in. So the fundamental question of whether it's actually worth the dev time remains, or if it would just end up pleasing a minute subset of storyline buffs while annoying everyone else. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |

Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
65
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 17:39:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tippia wrote:So you're extrapolating some pretty huge conclusions based on a reference to a comment on a number that the commenter doesn't even understand. RiiiightGǪ The reason those players are categorised as GǣsoloGǥ is because they don't do whatever they do in groups. This has almost nothing to do with PvE, and almost everything to do with most activities simply not being done in groups. There are no group sell orders; no group industry (other than some high-end resource collection); very little group ISK-grinding (since, by design, it's almost all competitive and thus directly harmful to do as a group).
Okay well, I guess I should just say that I think enough of the player base want PVE iteration that it would be received with more satisfaction than annoyance overall. But I'm not sure. Someone should look into it.
Tippia wrote:PvE in EVE has always had one purpose and one purpose alone: to inject ISK at one end and extract it at the other. The stories being weaved between those endpoints were up to the players to produce. The reason you see a lot of people engage in PvE is because they want ISK GÇö a story would just be more bloated screens of text to click through to get to that ISK. The source of the above numbers is the same source that concluded that what we're seeing is simply a cycle of GÇ£get ISK GåÆ blow ISK on fun stuff GåÆ get more ISKGÇ¥, and what you're proposing is to short-circuit that cycle into GÇ£get ISK GåÆ get ISKGÇ¥ (which would require the ISK to be removed as a factor, leaving only the underlying GÇ£funGÇ¥ that people skip over as fast as possible).
Who decides that this can be PVE's only purpose? I would like it to serve dual purposes: what you're talking about + experiencing sci fi content in the fictional world that I've grown so attached to. Something like: get fun and interesting ISK GåÆ blow ISK on fun stuff GåÆ get more fun and interesting ISK. No offense, but if you and your ilk lack the imagination and/or the desire to experience "the sense of wonder" that comes from that, at least respect how important it is to many of us. |

Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1438
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:09:00 -
[90] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:Velicitia wrote:I think I see what you're after. It sounds like you want a PVE storyline that you can consume that doesn't require the interaction with other players of the game (due to "us" wanting it, and something about 50% of eve players play solo). Or, at least that's what it sounds like. The thing is, that isn't what EVE is about -- the entire story, be it through chronicles or what the players have done is focused on the human element.
It is that human element, and the conflict between people that drives the story ... this isn't the type of game where you just role-play as a farmer thrown into the midst of a galactic war, or any one of the other various plotlines that start off RPG-style games (or any other story-telling medium).
What you're calling for (more PVE, and stuff), at least in the way that I'm reading it, won't do things the way you think they will. I mean, just look around the forums -- the miners (botters) are all up in arms about depleting ice, and the nullsec industry buffs. CCP is giving the PVE side *exactly* what you're calling for, and yet you (collectively as PVE players) don't want it.
Sounds like your alleged "we" isn't as cohesive as you imagine -- even the current "PVE stuff that was supposed to bring people together" isn't even doing that. You have people running 2 and 3 and 16 accounts so they can get more of the spoils of w-space or incursions or mining or whatever. All this shows me is that "you" only want more stuff that can be easily farmed. PVE players don't want to work together for any length of time longer than the bare minimum needed to learn how to farm it themselves.
We _want_ you to come and participate in the sandbox. Thing is, "the sandbox" is so much more than "went out, ratted for 2 hours" that you seem to want. The true life in EVE is in those really, really good "rats" that are red boxes instead of red crosses. I'm not defending solo play as a"way of life" in EVE. To commit to it is misguided. By "us" I only mean that at least 50% of players engage in PVE more than PVP, and it follows that those players would love to see that aspect of the game given some serious love, and I think we deserve it. That is all. I agree a lot of solo players in EVE have very bad habits, including myself to some extent. It's not a game that works long term solo. I'm not hoping for an enhanced PVE experience so that it'll be more fun to play solo all the time. In fact, speaking for myself, I would prefer to be fly solo as little as possible from here on out. As for those stuck in solo land, let's not hold back iteration for fear of what they'll do with it. You don't have to give up your solo play. It can be relaxing to hop in a procurer and just mine while sorting out a bad day, and not talking to people. I don't like doing it for more than a day or two, but that's me.
Angang Ostus wrote:Basically, I want EVE to feel even more real and dynamic and be full of even more different things I can do. I want to be able to be in a small group roam, then go off and find some signatures (that takes me off on a little story/hunt for something/etc), then go fight in an arena, then fight in a fleet battle, then go on a mini-epic arc series of missions, then go mining (no f*** that), then mess with PI, then escort some miners, go on another small group roam, and so on. Basically I want the variety that already there, the sort of "cycle" that's already in place. I just want the PVE part to be more interesting. Burn me at the stake.
Great! so go find a gang and get immersed in the game, and those people. Make your story and enjoy every minute of it to the fullest extent possible.
Everything you posted that you want to do is already there for you, waiting for you to do it, to be quite honest it could all fit under the heading of "epic arc". You're just the one writing the story.
For example, Angang's Epic Arc Missions. 1. "OK boys, [corporation] was blabbing about making a billion ISK in some wormhole last night [system ID]", the plan is to take it from them. We need these materials to make it happen ("courier mission - bring 15,000 m3 of ammo back") 2. We've got the materials we need, now we're gonna find their home (signatures) 3. As you're scanning, you run across a roaming gang of them (small gang fighting) 4. You've found their home, so now your corp needs to get in and set up a POS and stuff to siege them. (PI) 5. You start the siege (fleet fights) 6. you take over, and start building heavier defenses (more PI and guarding the miners and whatever else) 7. they come back, so you've got to defend your home (more fleet fighting) 8. kick them out, but your fleet gets separated by a wormhole collapse. Now you have to find your way home or to the fleet, so you can lead them out again (more signatures and exploring) 9. someone else thinks they can kick you out (more small gang fighting)
and so on. This whole time, you're not relying on some pre-generated storyline that you play through -- you're making it.
Angang Ostus wrote:You talk as if PVE wasn't already in the game and you're arguing against it being added. It's already here and it's not going anywhere. The economy would fall apart without it. Riddle me this: why not iterate something that is fundamental to the game? Why leave it mothballed in its current not-changed-at-all-for-4-years state?
You're going a bit off the deep end again...
As it stands right now, there's simply no need for CCP to write up a huge storyline that you "need" to follow. If that's what you're looking for, there are already numerous games that supply that kind of experience. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
|

Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
249
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 09:11:00 -
[91] - Quote
Fractal Muse wrote: Beyond that, since this is EVE, you can create your own dynamic and emergent story.
I don't know about others, but I have personally never asked for more scripted PVE "story" content. What I would want is "more tools to create our stories" or more customization of some sort. Something that makes player created emergent content A different from player created emergent content B. Currently its same ships and same POSes etc. The only difference is the names of the players really. There is not enough uniqueness. Its like-minded people doing same things over and over and for some reason its called "emergent content"...
Could be as little as player-created insignia or their alliance logos on ships etc..
MrDiao wrote: What you saying also reveals the fact that even these biggest in-game events have left no marks inside the game, and people who want to know the story have to open a website to read the novel, which is pretty off to most of the in-game population.
^ This. The 'player created story' is OUTSIDE the game. |

Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1522
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 10:47:00 -
[92] - Quote
Player logos and whatnot are coming with the V3 stuff (or at least it's been hinted at). Not sure what other "tools" you're looking for though...
Explain how the story (of events that happened in the game) is created outside of the game? If none of the events I listed took place, there would be no stories...
If you mean that you have to read a "book" outside of the client, how is that any different than the fluff books that game designers throw into their games? For example, "The History of the Kings of Neverwinter" (or other stuff) that you randomly find in NWN. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |

Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:03:00 -
[93] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? Where are ANY innovations in PVE to make it more dynamic and alive in order to at least give players a canvass on which their imaginations can fill in the gaps? And don't tell me to go play ****ing SWTOR.
It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers. It annoys me to no end that so many EVE players hate sci fi. There's a sort of middle school-ish peer pressure to treat anything immersive as Santa Claus kid stuff. ****ing goons and other cynical leet "community born" pressure CCP to neglect immersive storytelling and dynamic PVE (and I mean just up to par with other MMOs) because it's not "emergent content" (and not about their stardom) etc. Such a ****ing waste of the world that CCP created.
Don't get me wrong. PVP in EVE is amazing. The sandbox is a thing of beauty. It's extremely awesome that some players have become famous and influential. The communities that have been formed are a unique thing in this world. And I want more people in 0.0 carving out little principalities and creating great dynamic emergent content as much as anyone. If that's where we're going then CCP needs seriously turn on the MWD and get us moving in that direction ASAP. In that case a lesser focus on empire PVE might make more sense.
But even if 0.0 were 10x as dynamic and populated as it is now it would still be great to have an environment in which the professional sci fi storytellers at CCP (who are getting payed for what? Maybe there's only one writer left) are able to tell the ongoing story of this world and give us interesting ways to be part of it. I love science fiction. I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. I don't want it from Mass Effect or Star Wars. i want it from EVE. Can SOMEONE tell me WHY that is so much to ask???!!!
Like banging my ****ing head against a wall.
Sci-fi immersion of the type you describe will turn EVE into just another theme park, that many of the existing EVE players won't want to be part of, including myself.
In a sandbox the players should be creating the content, of course they need the tools to be able to do that.
But so many EVE players don't hate sci-fi they hate theme parks.
GW2 has dynamic events, their dynamic events are repetitive and soon get boring. Their living story is based around collecting achievement points (achievement points being the biggest MMO RP killer there is) and is more of a pain than is useful to most of the community. GW2 end game is completely boring partly due to there's not much left to do other than repetitive tasks and there really is no reason to do anything there unless you want to make an epic weapon which normally looks crap. GW2 is focused mainly on little reward so as to get you to buy gems to compensate if you're not patient enough. So good luck with that, see you back in about 2 months. |

Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
225
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:41:00 -
[94] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:There are only four other sci-fi settings with more fluff to it than EVE that I can think of. Warhammer 40,000, Doctor Who, Star Wars, and Star Trek. Not sure of the order but you could put it together. Regardless, EVE is easily in the top 5 and it's only been around for a decade.
You forgot Babylon 5. |

Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
225
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:44:00 -
[95] - Quote
OP, my response to your wall of talk talk... |

baltec1
Bat Country
6389
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:46:00 -
[96] - Quote
MrDiao wrote:Velicitia wrote:Just for an example of numbers / dates: Stories - EVE The Great War - Jan - Oct 2007 m0o - June 2003 Battle of Asakai - Feb 2013 EBANK - Aug 2009 Fall of BOB - Feb 2009 more stories than I care to count What you saying also reveals the fact that even these biggest in-game events have left no marks inside the game
They did leave a mark, some of them a very big mark. |

Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
182
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:47:00 -
[97] - Quote
No?
Players are making most of the content in this game. Now you know who to blame. New CQ prototype |

Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
846
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:40:00 -
[98] - Quote
I still recall the old days of Player/Dev interaction events before the stupid leak/fiasco that made the whole epic storyline arch of the Amarrian Sect of Zealots derailed, be forgotten and scratched.
I mean, We , the Amarrians had a silly Emperor instead of Jamyl because of PLAYER INTERACTIONS within the game back in the day.
Eve was great and awesome in that aspect. But the whole thing died down ... Bah!
We need Sarpatis back in a titan being hunted by capsuleers ... We need more Depraved Karsoths and blood raider convoys escorting him out of Amarr space intow Low sec being tailed by angry capsuleers.
I miss that EVE ... Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |

Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
216
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:56:00 -
[99] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:Where's the storytelling?
You are the story.
What story do you wish to tell? Who are you as a character?
New Eden has many RP social groups available. You simply need to reach out and contact them and get involved.
Most of your post is asking for what most of us don't want to see Eve turn into. And that's a theme park MMO where all the content turns into a repetitive line-ride.
However there is merit to your argument. Eve could use a little more involving Epic Arc style of PvE missioning at a lower level to help with "immersion" factor and create an environment that new players can write themselves into. |

Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
353
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 18:00:00 -
[100] - Quote
I can see the OP's point, but I don't think it would happen.
I'm a casual PvE player, and I carve out my own little story in my imagination (and sometimes do the story arcs, which are actually not bad, you'll enjoy them when you get to them). The game isn't really orientated around my playstyle, but I love the art design and intricacy of the game, and even though I don't PvP by preference, the ever-present sense of danger, and needing to take precautions constantly, makes the game highly immersive (until I do get blown up of course - that always puts me right back firmly in my Aeron, in my flat :) ).
As to the "emergent gameplay" counter-argument, I like the idea of player-created content in theory, but in practice, IMHO most of the EVE history stuff is just goofy uber-geek e-peening, it mostly has very little relation to the excellent s-f backstory CCP have set up. Obviously it's been fun for those participating, on the whole, and it's newsworthy, but it's not really much cop from an observer's point of view as story, it's not really drama, just schoolboy antics.
As to rp, there used to be a lot more roleplaying corps than there are now, they've just dwindled away because rp hasn't been supported by the devs, because that's not the side their bread's buttered on.
Actually, I think CCP painted themselves into a corner long, long ago. When they started, the intention was "multiplayer Elite", i.e. a game with PvE and PvP balanced. Unfortunately they didn't have enough resources to make the PvE side of the game as good as it might have been, and meanwhile a lot of PvP players were attracted to the game even with its then-sketchy PvE, and supported it through it's early development. (There used to be remnants of this potential PvE complexity - long, long ago, there were quite complex hauling and trading possibilities on the PvE side, the beginnings of something that could have been more like a multiplayer Elite - all those dangling loose ends have long been snipped.)
Sad, but on the other hand, that's the way it is. It may be impossible, at least for the near future, to have an MMO that has the kind of deep interweaving of PvE and PvP that the concept "multiplayer Elite" promised. I doubt Star Citizen will be able to do it. SC will probably have good PvE but be too "safe" and lack the immersion factor of EVE that comes from its danger.
There really is no solution. As a PvE solo player, you either take EVE as it is and learn to cope with its foibles and jackassery, and carve your own niche in it with your imagination, or you don't play it.
The game is beautiful, with a rich backstory, and in terms of art design and intricacy would make for fantastic PvE. But that train left the station long, long ago. It is the way it is and it won't change - there are too many players invested in the way it is, by now. |
|

Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
274
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:42:00 -
[101] - Quote
MrDiao wrote:Velicitia wrote:Just for an example of numbers / dates: Stories - EVE The Great War - Jan - Oct 2007 m0o - June 2003 Battle of Asakai - Feb 2013 EBANK - Aug 2009 Fall of BOB - Feb 2009 more stories than I care to count What you saying also reveals the fact that even these biggest in-game events have left no marks inside the game, and people who want to know the story have to open a website to read the novel, which is pretty off to most of the in-game population. For example, for the battle of Asakai or any large slaughter of super caps, why wouldn't ccp (or automatically by system) create a bacon with many capital/non-capital wrecks saying "A great capital fights between xxx and xxx was happened here, xxx Nyx, xxx Aeon was lost", and such. They can also invite both part to write a short comment and add them to the bacon. It's the real player created story, rather than the novels looks like what come from a parallel world.
Because they aren't worthy of historic markers.
If you want a historic example - "Attilla the Hun" - He was the ruler of a a large empire but a "nebulous" one and little is actually known of him yet the Hun "empire" provided literally thousands of mercs to the Roman Empire for over 50 years -- as well as stomping the hell out of them when they argued.
What is known and understood of his people are that they were nomadic yet taking and making settlements among the goths. What is known of all the battle and warring is small and often vaguely referenced yet they were "tribal" in nature.
Other such references all come from the actual, long-term, major empires and their writings about the barbarian tribes they collectively referenced as the Huns.
The time frame in this game is only 1 decade so far - not decades, not centuries and across that time... How many "nullsec eimpres" have risen and fallen?
Like the Huns, they have larger less well defined "borders" that brush up against actual empirical holdings and, again, like the Huns, little beyond specific events will be recalled for long.
Yes, even back then, tactics not seen before and weapons not used in such a fashion were seen among the "barbarians" and that's pretty much what nullsec is about -- tribal agreements that divvy up portions of a "world" for their using but none of them with the staying power to do more than cause minor blips in the overall history of the game-world. |

Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:43:00 -
[102] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:A lot of players love building and flying spaceships. Devs clearly love getting payed to geek out and make space stuff. But it's like the fact that this is all taking place in a fictional universe is just the bare bones justification for being able to fly spaceships and form online communities. Where's the storytelling? Where's the innovations in PVE to allow players to immerse themselves, at least to some extent, in the fiction? Where are ANY innovations in PVE to make it more dynamic and alive in order to at least give players a canvass on which their imaginations can fill in the gaps? And don't tell me to go play ****ing SWTOR.
It almost makes me want to go try GW2 instead focusing on a game in which my interest in sci fi immersion and PVE gameplay causes me to be dismissed as a role play carebear by a bunch of leet number crunchers. It annoys me to no end that so many EVE players hate sci fi. There's a sort of middle school-ish peer pressure to treat anything immersive as Santa Claus kid stuff. ****ing goons and other cynical leet "community born" pressure CCP to neglect immersive storytelling and dynamic PVE (and I mean just up to par with other MMOs) because it's not "emergent content" (and not about their stardom) etc. Such a ****ing waste of the world that CCP created.
Don't get me wrong. PVP in EVE is amazing. The sandbox is a thing of beauty. It's extremely awesome that some players have become famous and influential. The communities that have been formed are a unique thing in this world. And I want more people in 0.0 carving out little principalities and creating great dynamic emergent content as much as anyone. If that's where we're going then CCP needs seriously turn on the MWD and get us moving in that direction ASAP. In that case a lesser focus on empire PVE might make more sense.
But even if 0.0 were 10x as dynamic and populated as it is now it would still be great to have an environment in which the professional sci fi storytellers at CCP (who are getting payed for what? Maybe there's only one writer left) are able to tell the ongoing story of this world and give us interesting ways to be part of it. I love science fiction. I want science fiction stories that are woven into immersive gameplay. I don't want it from Mass Effect or Star Wars. i want it from EVE. Can SOMEONE tell me WHY that is so much to ask???!!!
Like banging my ****ing head against a wall.
if you don't see the story in eve then because you don't make one... thats the good part of this, there is no story because we are creating it, that is much better then someone telling us his fiction, personally i would kill PVE and all storytelling in the game and just let the players create the world, if you want to read a story then there are a lot of books, if you want to create your own story then there is EVE OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |

Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
207
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 01:26:00 -
[103] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote: (snipped whining)
Like banging my ****ing head against a wall.
OP can i have ur stuff when u are gone? kthxbye |

Dyphorus
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 01:37:00 -
[104] - Quote
EVE is a PvP sandbox, not a linear theme park. If you're looking for a game focused on to PvE/story, you're in the wrong place.
To answer your question more directly, no we don't hate sci fi. In fact, most of us love it. The difference in perspective is that you want someone to tell you a story, most EVE players would rather make up our own, and this is what the game allows us to do. |

Angang Ostus
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
74
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Posted - 2013.05.15 15:22:00 -
[105] - Quote
OP here. I've just gotten into Gallente faction warfare and gotten a bit of hands on experience in the emergent gameplay. There's so much going on between players that it feels like I've discovered a whole new game within the game. It's great to start as a noob in this part of the game (which I am) and not worry about losing clones and frigs/destroyers. It's a nice transition into PVP for the risk/loss averse. I would suggest to anyone who is interested in transitioning from "carebear" lifestyle to something more dynamic and stimulating to enlist in faction warfare. Just start out as a noob flying cheap frigs (one lvl 4 mission will pay for several with fittings) in an unbonused clone. Learn how to tackle in an Atron or whatever and go from there.
Guys....PVP is really, really fun and I think everyone should dive into it and give it a shot. FW gives you a chance to do this basically risk free. The only cost is standings with one faction. I don't care about my Caldari standings. I can send an alt to Jita if I need to. I do care about my Amarr standings though because I want to be able to explore in Amarr low sec. So keep that in mind. Otherwise my advice to all my fellow high sec missioners/solo low sec explorers is to take a faction warfare vacation and try out PVP. You owe it to yourself to experience more of what this amazing game has to offer you, especially since you've already invested so much in it.
Having said that....I still stand by what I said earlier! I love the EVE backstory and lore. I love sci fi movies and books. I want to be able to take a break from pewpew sometimes and go enjoy a storyline series of missions or more immersive exploration and make some money while I'm at it. I see that as much more a of a side activity now though. |

Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1540
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 15:30:00 -
[106] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:
Having said that....I still stand by what I said earlier! I love the EVE backstory and lore. I want to be able to take a break from pewpew sometimes and go enjoy a storyline series of missions or more immersive exploration and make some money while I'm at it. I see that as much more a of a side activity now though.
Sounds like you're catching on. The story you create isn't necessarily all about fighting, though that's a big part in EVE (and generally the outcome, or start of, a lot of the "I was there" moments.)
Use your new corpies (and enemies) to build your story, and see where things go. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |

Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
354
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 15:49:00 -
[107] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:
Having said that....I still stand by what I said earlier! I love the EVE backstory and lore. I want to be able to take a break from pewpew sometimes and go enjoy a storyline series of missions or more immersive exploration and make some money while I'm at it. I see that as much more a of a side activity now though.
Yay, nice to hear you're settling in!
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