If you read carefully I said..My point being there should be a great gap between t1 t2 and t3.... each one should have quit abit more power that the one before and require quite a bit more training... t3s should be more powerful(not always DPS wise) than any t2 cruiser and same goes for t2 vs t1.. or whats the point. nerfing isnt the way to go or pretty soon in even they will nerf soo much every ship is pretty much equally.

SO your saying me playing since 2004 and having trainned all this time I do not deserve to be able to fly ship that are more skill intensive that newbs can't?

ITT:
Player who complains about losing to a high ship class in a 1 vs 1 and feels entitled that he should be able to win easily.
Waaahhh I lost my t1 bc to a t3. Its OP.
Imagine if he gets killed by a Commandship:
Waaah I lost my t1 to a cs. Its OP.
Lets make all the ships equal regardless of skill and isk costs. Such a great idea.

ITT:

Player who complains about losing to a high ship class in a 1 vs 1 and feels entitled that he should be able to win easily.


Waaahhh I lost my t1 bc to a t3. Its OP.

Imagine if he gets killed by a Commandship:


Waaah I lost my t1 to a cs. Its OP.


Lets make all the ships equal regardless of skill and isk costs. Such a great idea.

That's because versatility that is only achieved by extensive refitting is something noone cares for in the world of effective min-maxing. There are some uses for it, but they mostly involve CovOps sub. Versatility that is achieved within one fit (given that you don't achieve effectiveness of specialist ships). on the other hand...

T3s are basically ships that combine combat ability with recon-like utility plus some beef on top. That causes them to obsolete HACs oftentimes (if fitted for combat exclusively) or be real "combat recons" when fitted for utility, but not without tradeoffs when compared to real recons. Unless their utility sub isn't really good and their combat system isn't stellar ofc.

Aside from T3 vs HAC issue and virtually useless subs T3s don't seem to be that much broken, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

How to fix T3s :

(lots of good stuff)

- WH balancing special change : Find a way to cut Battleship mass by 50/60/70% while changing other values so that their ingame behavior doesn't change. Or add a hidden bonus like -50/-60/-70% mass when jumping in wormholes.

T3s are overused in wormholes because of their mass. No other sub-BS platform can compete with them, and rightly so. If you allow battleships to be used effectively in wormholes, you'll make Battleship-based doctrines possible. Yes, that's a big change, and that WILL yield great results for WHs as a whole.

I'm sure that battleships' overuse in wormholes won't ever be a problem. T3s are still superior to battleships in every way. But at least it will bring some diversity.

[...]

there are cruisers that can out dps or tank a tengu

Yeah? Which ones?

Okay. Which cruisers can beat a Tengu in either tank or DPS?

Personally, I think all T2 cruisers need to be rebalanced first and then T3 cruisers should be balanced to be equal to all the T2 cruisers in each role. This also means CCP should invent a stealthy T2 scanning cruiser for each race

Holy **** I actually almost agree with this entire statement.

Holy **** I actually almost agree with this entire statement.

1 - That T3 cruiser cost a poopload more than your crappy T2 HAC or whatever.

You also lose a skill level every time you die in one.

Seriously, since when have T1 items ever been better than T2 items?

A Tengu fitted for fleet fights will cost about 400-500m, which isn't massively expensive when compared with the BSes they are going up against. If you want to fit blingy modules, that's your decision. It has nothing to do with the cost of the ship, I can put blingy modules on any ship and demand it should be more powerful due to cost.


That's true, and I agree it adds up but what does it have to do with balance? How is that relevant to the way a Tengu performs in a fight? It doesn't affect other players at all and it's a pretty stupid mechanic. I think CCP should get rid of it when the T3s are rebalanced.


Not sure if serious.

It's been said many times that after tiericide the power difference between tech1 and tech 2 will be smaller. You get a linear increase in power for a expotential increase in cost. That will apply for tech 3's as well.

It's also been said many times that T2 will be the strongest ship in their specialization. For example a curse will be a better neuting ship than a legion but the legion will be good at more things (not the best but good). For example the curse has low ehp sen the legion would have a better tank while still being a good neuter.

You don't get to pick and choose which parts to argue with.

Sure, a fleet fitted Tengu costs around 450-500M. How much does a fleet fitted HAC cost? And you can't compare them to battleships either - apples to oranges.

Losing skills with a loss IS a balance

I'm talking hulls, not modules. Besides a few rare, extremely isolated cases

If you can't afford to fly one, get better at making ISK. It's not hard. If you're really too risk averse or your corp / alliance is to risk averse to handle losing some, well...... HTFU princess. Keep flying HAC's. I don't hear any complaining from people flying T1 frigates getting owned by assault frigates... it's the same thing, plus a few hundred million.

lol you kidding right.... are you really comparing a T3 to a BS

you can get into a BS after just a couple months, a T3 requires alot more 1 year or more to fly well.

lol you kidding right.... are you really comparing a T3 to a BS..... you can get into a BS after just a couple months, a T3 requires alot more 1 year or more to fly well.

Yeah okay. Sorry I hurt your feelings.