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Riot Girl Thundercats The Initiative. 973	Posted - 2013.06.03 18:58:00 - [91] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: In PVP anything close to that fit that would be a nice Tengu killmail for someone. For PvP, you'd use something more like this. [Tengu, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II 10MN Afterburner II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II EM Ward Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Obfuscation Manifold Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst This still does 700 DPS @ 25km and has 118k EHP with a couple of mids for whatever you want. Oh god.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 258	Posted - 2013.06.03 19:23:00 - [92] - Quote Aka thunder cat......just add HAMS
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1412	Posted - 2013.06.03 23:19:00 - [93] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: This still does 700 DPS @ 25km and has 118k EHP with a couple of mids for whatever you want. Yet is another fail. Those are both nice fits, but they don't achieve what you had clamed Riot Girl wrote: Is it normal for a Cruiser to have BS tank before taking mobility into consideration, capable of close to1000 DPS and applying damage out to 70km? If it's not overpowered, then I guess this is pretty common for many cruiser class ships, right? Now maybe there was a typo. Maybe you meant to put OR in between those. Or maybe even "pick any two". But you didn't. This is what I was getting at originally. Yes your three facts above are technically true. But you state it in a way that would mislead those unaware with T3's to infer a Tengu can: 1. Be capable of close to 1000 DPS AND 2. Apply damage out to 70km AND 3. Have BS tank before taking mobility into consideration. All at the same time. Even with T3's you have to sacrifice something to get the other.
Pipernelli Spacemitt Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2013.06.03 23:37:00 - [94] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Riot Girl wrote: This still does 700 DPS @ 25km and has 118k EHP with a couple of mids for whatever you want. Yet is another fail. Those are both nice fits, but they don't achieve what you had clamed Riot Girl wrote: Is it normal for a Cruiser to have BS tank before taking mobility into consideration, capable of close to1000 DPS and applying damage out to 70km? If it's not overpowered, then I guess this is pretty common for many cruiser class ships, right? Now maybe there was a typo. Maybe you meant to put OR in between those. Or maybe even "pick any two". But you didn't. This is what I was getting at originally. Yes your three facts above are technically true. But you state it in a way that would mislead those unaware with T3's to infer a Tengu can: 1. Be capable of close to 1000 DPS AND 2. Apply damage out to 70km AND 3. Have BS tank before taking mobility into consideration. All at the same time. Even with T3's you have to sacrifice something to get the other. Dunked.
Celia Therone University of Caille Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2013.06.04 01:02:00 - [95] - Quote Pipernelli Spacemitt wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: Riot Girl wrote: This still does 700 DPS @ 25km and has 118k EHP with a couple of mids for whatever you want. Yet is another fail. Those are both nice fits, but they don't achieve what you had clamed Riot Girl wrote: Is it normal for a Cruiser to have BS tank before taking mobility into consideration, capable of close to1000 DPS and applying damage out to 70km? If it's not overpowered, then I guess this is pretty common for many cruiser class ships, right? Now maybe there was a typo. Maybe you meant to put OR in between those. Or maybe even "pick any two". But you didn't. This is what I was getting at originally. Yes your three facts above are technically true. But you state it in a way that would mislead those unaware with T3's to infer a Tengu can: 1. Be capable of close to 1000 DPS AND 2. Apply damage out to 70km AND 3. Have BS tank before taking mobility into consideration. All at the same time. Even with T3's you have to sacrifice something to get the other. Dunked. If for tank you fit... Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster 2x Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Shield Boost amplifier II Then I think that that qualifies as a BS equivalent tank mostly because of high native resistances and low sig radius. Without moving there are missions in which it will break, especially if you trigger everything but that's true of a lot of battleship tanks as well. Both the HAM and HML tengus can fit a full rack of t2 lanchers and CN BCU's and still fit that tank, which is sufficient for every (be careful in some Amarr missions/anything with significant neuting) level 4. Note that I am not saying that this is the best tank you can fit or the strongest tank. It's a cap-stable omni tank and has the weaknesses thereof but it is a sufficient tank. The 1000 dps claim is a little bit shy unless you include implants which can bring you up to 1063dps with scourge rage heavy assault missiles up to 41.2 km and 709dps with scourge javelin out to 74.2. Less defender missiles, which is non-trivial, as is ammo switching time. For most missions with distant rats I expect that you'd be better off with the HML variant that does 814dps out to 70.8km with scourge fury and 604 out to 94.3 with scourge heavy. The dps numbers are not particularly remarkable imho, especially as you're pretty much in a dead-end skill train and will have to upgrade to a different ship type and weapon size to improve them (discounting making your tengu gank bait by fitting officer mods). Getting overly caught up on T3's being 'cruiser class' ships is self defeating. They're constructed differently, priced differently and skilled differently. There are a couple of places where they compete with old cruiser roles, like recons, but mostly they are competing with BS roles and have a pretty small window of effectiveness.
Riot Girl Thundercats The Initiative. 973	Posted - 2013.06.04 05:22:00 - [96] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Yes your three facts above are technically true I know. Oh god.
SMT008 SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse 596	Posted - 2013.06.04 10:36:00 - [97] - Quote How to fix T3s : Fix Subsystems so that every sub is useful at something. That includes : - Making a Drone Proteus viable - Making a neuting Legion actually useful as opposed to the current (Well I had no Bhaalgorns so yeah) - Add a neutrange bonus and/or a bonus to neut efficiency (consumes less cap while using neuts) to the Legion - Make Hybrid Tengus viable - Boost Lokis' DPS to acceptable levels - Boost Legions' DPS to acceptable levels - Get a DPS bonus on the Legions' covert sub - Make it so that the +5% PWG per level sub on the Tengu ACTUALLY GETS YOU MORE PWG. Tengus have to fit the Capacitor Regeneration Matrix in order to make 100MN fits viable. This sub gets you more PWG AND cap stability. If you make the PWG sub actually effective, you'll see Tengus having an additionnal launcher, but they'll have to deal with capacitor problems. Balanced. - Make it so that the Lokis' dual weapon-system works, please. Currently, there is absolutly no reason to fit one. Alternatively, make it a Missile subsystem. - Make it so that Shield Lokis are actually good. Currently, they are not. At all. Not worth the price by a long shot. Adaptive Shielding needs an additional medslot (5 medslots are MANDATORY, considering the Lokis' usefulness is linked to its webbing bonus), and speed needs to be looked at. Currently, a Talos, a Gallente Battlecruiser, is faster than a Minmatar cruiser. If fitted with the "Max Speed" sub, it's still slower than every other Minmatar cruiser, but it also becomes bulkier than a Talos. - Optional class-wide change : Remove rigs and replace them with the appropriate buffs to subsystems. If you want versatility, this is where you get it. Rigs are why everyone buy multiple T3s for different tasks instead of doing what T3s are supposed to be doing, which is being able to change the whole ship with subs. - WH balancing special change : Find a way to cut Battleship mass by 50/60/70% while changing other values so that their ingame behavior doesn't change. Or add a hidden bonus like -50/-60/-70% mass when jumping in wormholes. T3s are overused in wormholes because of their mass. No other sub-BS platform can compete with them, and rightly so. If you allow battleships to be used effectively in wormholes, you'll make Battleship-based doctrines possible. Yes, that's a big change, and that WILL yield great results for WHs as a whole. I'm sure that battleships' overuse in wormholes won't ever be a problem. T3s are still superior to battleships in every way. But at least it will bring some diversity. And that is all.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1413	Posted - 2013.06.04 12:11:00 - [98] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: Yes your three facts above are technically true. But you state it in a way that would mislead I know. FTFY
Alsyth 34	Posted - 2013.06.04 12:58:00 - [99] - Quote Problem with T3s imo: -100MN AB fits: BS tank with frigate-class signature tanking should not exist. (170k EHP, 2.1km/s, 95m...) -completely outperforms all HACs, most CS and some BSs in gank+tank fits -approximately half of the subsystems are broken and almost never used -cloacky ogb with better boosts than CS is lame (hopefully fixed "soon") Apart from that I think they are fine.
Riot Girl Thundercats The Initiative. 974	Posted - 2013.06.04 14:17:00 - [100] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Riot Girl wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: Yes your three facts above are technically true. But you state it in a way that would mislead I know. FTFY Why do you care? If you're concerned about what new players think, you could have just clarified it for them and been done with it, instead of dragging out this whole embarrassing argument. Oh god.
Sal Landry School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2013.06.04 14:48:00 - [101] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Why do you care? If you're concerned about what new players think, you could have just clarified it for them and been done with it, instead of dragging out this whole embarrassing argument. It's only embarrassing for you because you've been caught out in a blatant lie.
SMT008 SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse 597	Posted - 2013.06.04 15:04:00 - [102] - Quote Alsyth wrote: Problem with T3s imo: -100MN AB fits: BS tank with frigate-class signature tanking should not exist. (170k EHP, 2.1km/s, 95m...) -completely outperforms all HACs, most CS and some BSs in gank+tank fits -approximately half of the subsystems are broken and almost never used -cloacky ogb with better boosts than CS is lame (hopefully fixed "soon") 1 : 100MN AB fits aren't a problem. Their capstability and general lack of trade-offs is. If CCP fixes the PWG subsystem, 100MN AB fits won't be capstable anymore. Also, the Heavy Missile nerf heavily nerfed Tengus. 100MN AB fits aren't really OP anymore. They're good, but not completely out of the line. 2 : Yes, but that's more because of HACs themselves. The Nighthawk is horrible, the Sleipnir is good (and delivers more DPS than a Loki), the Astarte is usable and the Absolution gets way more DPS than a Legion. 3 : Yes, totally. 4 : Yes.
Riot Girl Thundercats The Initiative. 974	Posted - 2013.06.04 15:28:00 - [103] - Quote Sal Landry wrote: It's only embarrassing for you because you've been caught out in a blatant lie. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I take back all the mean things I said about your Tengu. Oh god.
Troedoff Dude Gambino Crime Family 1	Posted - 2013.06.04 22:35:00 - [104] - Quote We need to buff every ship in eve to godmode so that you can fly whatever you want whenever you want, and it never ever dies, and there is never ending free PVP, and skills, and training, and tactics, and price, and time doesn't even matter, or nerf everything cause I've been playing eve for a week, and somebody has blown up my rifter. Really people stop drinking the welfare koolaide. Time, risk, and isk = reward. Grab a BC, and a buddy in a BC, and blow up the shiny t3. Run a little risk yourself why don't you? I mean a 1-2b isk kill looks good on anyone's KB right?
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 182	Posted - 2013.06.05 02:02:00 - [105] - Quote Mike Adoulin wrote: Just about everybody agrees that the damn t3 strategic cruisers are broken. Just flat out busted. So far there have been rumors of nerfing the Tengu (which almost everyone agrees is the most broken t3 cruiser of them all...) for quite some time. And on the other side you have the Legion which is underpowert with nearly every combination of submoduls and mostly terrible slot layouts. I found only one use for it and that's highsec explorations. Some use it for Incursions. But it is imposible to reach any decent DPS or RPS not even talking about the insanly bad covert ops submodul. With your nerv-sugestions you would destroy the Legion! There is just one real fix and that's a very close look at any submodul and any posible combination of this moduls. Each one has to be balanced seperatly! Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Ireland VonVicious Vendetta Syndicate 150	Posted - 2013.06.05 02:36:00 - [106] - Quote I see a lot of talk on the legion being sad here. Although it is the armor incursion ship of choice. I think it just under preforms in PvP and is maybe over powered for group PvE. People always think things are over powered or under powered based on what they personally do in Eve. A ship that does something well and something not so well is what Eve is about.
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 182	Posted - 2013.06.05 04:11:00 - [107] - Quote Ireland VonVicious wrote: I see a lot of talk on the legion being sad here. Although it is the armor incursion ship of choice. I think it just under preforms in PvP and is maybe over powered for group PvE. People always think things are over powered or under powered based on what they personally do in Eve. A ship that does something well and something not so well is what Eve is about. The Legion is used for mostly only one think: Incursion. While I use it for exploration becouse of the medslots it can have (hack, archeology, MWD, drone upgrades, cap) it still underperforms in DPS and Tank compared to the other 3 Tech3 Cruiser and compared to Tech2 Cruisers/Battlecruiser. Just go and check out the numbers in EFT. Max posible DPS with decent setup, max posible self-rep with decent setup. It even has just an average max EHP compared to other Tech3 cruiser or Commandships (IF you still want a viable setup with weapons and stuff!!). Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Riot Girl Thundercats The Initiative. 975	Posted - 2013.06.05 06:34:00 - [108] - Quote Jojo Jackson wrote: Just go and check out the numbers in EFT. Max posible DPS with decent setup, max posible self-rep with decent setup. It even has just an average max EHP PvE Missile fit - 758 Max DPS Max 30km weapon range 503 DPS tank vs Angels // 394 vs Blood Raiders, sacrificing one damage mod. 1585 m/s with 100MN AB Lacks missile range, which causes a problem with slow alignment with the large AB. PvE Laser fit- 751 Max DPS Max 39km weapon range 503 DPS tank vs Angels // 394 vs Blood Raiders, sacrificing one damage mod. 705 m/s with 10MN AB Lack of PG means it can't fit 100 MN AB. Cap stable. PvP Missile fit- 619 Max DPS 115k EHP 100 MN AB viable PvP Laser fit - 614 Max DPS 115k EHP I'm not really seeing the problem here. HAMs could use a little more range, other than that, it seems fine to me. Oh god.
Arthur Aihaken Vegeta's Planetary Resale THE H0NEYBADGER 3	Posted - 2013.06.05 07:20:00 - [109] - Quote What was the heavy missile nerf? I hadn't read anything about it prior (thought they were just tweaking cruise missiles), but it just knocked off 150+ dps from my Tengu. It was at least serviceable previously with a Covert Ops fit, but now it's entirely useless.
Celia Therone University of Caille Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2013.06.05 08:39:00 - [110] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: What was the heavy missile nerf? I hadn't read anything about it prior (thought they were just tweaking cruise missiles), but it just knocked off 150+ dps from my Tengu. It was at least serviceable previously with a Covert Ops fit, but now it's entirely useless. Heavy missile nerf occurred months ago. Roughly range dropped by 25%, speed increased a bit, damage went up slightly on furies but might have decreased on faction(?). I think hams changed at the same time with more range and lower fittings but I was mostly afk at the time so am hazy on the details.
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 182	Posted - 2013.06.05 21:23:00 - [111] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Jojo Jackson wrote: Just go and check out the numbers in EFT. Max posible DPS with decent setup, max posible self-rep with decent setup. It even has just an average max EHP I'm not really seeing the problem here. Javelins could use a bit more range, maybe a 30% buff. Other than that, it seems fine to me. And now compare this numbers with the other Tech3: - Tengu has more DPS AND more tank at the same time (we all know how damn overpower the Tengu is) - Proteus does ALOT more DPS with nearly the same tank - Loki has about the same DPS and tank (even better tank when shield-tanked) with much better range and can chose the damage types And they will do it WITH T2 moduls ONLY!!! 30km for PvE with 100NM AB is realy bad. You do have enough tank+gang to kill stuff but you will be SLOOOOOW as hell. The laser offensive modul is suizidal for solo PvE anyway. Have fun with Web+Scam frigs (or just any frig which get's close). No idear why it hasn't at last 25m3 drone band/bay. This is even more true against Sanshas with all their TDs. Sure, it is posible to find working fits for the Legion ... but all 3 Tech3 will ALLWAYS do the job much better and are easier to handle! Anyway, my point is simple: you can NOT do a global nerv of all Tech3 Cruisers Any modul need to be adjusted seperatly. Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Baren Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 5	Posted - 2013.06.05 21:45:00 - [112] - Quote Hands down they are players now, and alot my self included who have 100 or 200 + sp... they should buff t3s but make them more skill intensive. it getting to the point where everyone can fly a bread or a titan or t3... we need something for the older players to sink thier teeth into.... the skills to get into a t3 should be alot harder than any t2 ships... thats why its called a t3... hell look at the time it takes to get into a black ops bs. Nerfing is not the solution.. they need to buff. or add more skills. what if they made it so every skill could now be trainned to level 6 or something lol not a actual solution but you get what i mean. SAY NO TO NERF
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 182	Posted - 2013.06.05 22:08:00 - [113] - Quote Baren wrote: Hands down they are players now, and alot my self included who have 100 or 200 + sp... they should buff t3s but make them more skill intensive. it getting to the point where everyone can fly a bread or a titan or t3... we need something for the older players to sink thier teeth into.... the skills to get into a t3 should be alot harder than any t2 ships... thats why its called a t3... hell look at the time it takes to get into a black ops bs. Nerfing is not the solution.. they need to buff. or add more skills. what if they made it so every skill could now be trainned to level 6 or something lol not a actual solution but you get what i mean. SAY NO TO NERF Hell no! The skill investments are fine and equal for all 4. Absolut no need to change them! And I don't see a reason at all to have stuff which needs insane SP. And no, just being a Vet doesn't justify it. Veterans allready have the advantage of being able to fly many more ships then new players. There is a armor-fleet? Jump into Legion OR Loki OR Proteus. There is a shield-fleet? Jump into Loki OR Tengu (OR semi optimal Legion with 6 med slots). There is a BC fleet? Pick one out of 8. There is a BS fleet? Take the demanded one. New players don't have this luxus. They might be able to fly one race (ex Amarr only or Caldari only). Even more when it comes to the more expensive Tech2 and Tech3 ships. And there is no argument, why it should be made even harder for new players to get into them! Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Riot Girl Thundercats The Initiative. 977	Posted - 2013.06.05 22:32:00 - [114] - Quote Jojo Jackson wrote: Tengu has more DPS AND more tank at the same time (we all know how damn overpower the Tengu is) That's a problem with the Tengu, not the Legion. Oh god.
Baren Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 5	Posted - 2013.06.05 22:45:00 - [115] - Quote Jojo Jackson wrote: Baren wrote: Hands down they are players now, and alot my self included who have 100 or 200 + sp... they should buff t3s but make them more skill intensive. it getting to the point where everyone can fly a bread or a titan or t3... we need something for the older players to sink thier teeth into.... the skills to get into a t3 should be alot harder than any t2 ships... thats why its called a t3... hell look at the time it takes to get into a black ops bs. Nerfing is not the solution.. they need to buff. or add more skills. what if they made it so every skill could now be trainned to level 6 or something lol not a actual solution but you get what i mean. SAY NO TO NERF Hell no! The skill investments are fine and equal for all 4. Absolut no need to change them! And I don't see a reason at all to have stuff which needs insane SP. And no, just being a Vet doesn't justify it. Veterans allready have the advantage of being able to fly many more ships then new players. There is a armor-fleet? Jump into Legion OR Loki OR Proteus. There is a shield-fleet? Jump into Loki OR Tengu (OR semi optimal Legion with 6 med slots). There is a BC fleet? Pick one out of 8. There is a BS fleet? Take the demanded one. New players don't have this luxus. They might be able to fly one race (ex Amarr only or Caldari only). Even more when it comes to the more expensive Tech2 and Tech3 ships. And there is no argument, why it should be made even harder for new players to get into them! My point being there should be a great gap between t1 t2 and t3.... each one should have quit abit more power that the one before and require quite a bit more training... t3s should be more powerful(not always DPS wise) than any t2 cruiser and same goes for t2 vs t1.. or whats the point. nerfing isnt the way to go or pretty soon in even they will nerf soo much every ship is pretty much equally. I THINK WE ALL REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR LOVELY TITANS AND HOW THEY WERE NERF TO WERE SUPERS NOW RULE 0.0 SPACE AND TITANS ARE NOW NO MORE THAT EXPENSIVE STARGATES FOR FLEETS. NERFING IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR T3s, THEY NEED TO BE BUFFED AND MADE MORE INTERESTING.
Riot Girl Thundercats The Initiative. 977	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:04:00 - [116] - Quote Yeah buff T3s and make them inaccessible to new players so veterans can be immortal gank gods. Great idea. Oh god.
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 182	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:33:00 - [117] - Quote Baren wrote: My point being there should be a great gap between t1 t2 and t3.... each one should have quit abit more power And this is absolut WRONG. The goal for Tech3 was NEVER to be more powerfull then Tech2! They should be (and they are) more flexible which is perfectly fine. Want most gang? Use HAC. Want most tank (or fleet boost)? Use Command. Want best cloaky? Use Recon. Want a ship which can do several tasks at once but not as well as a spezialist? Use Tech3! Why are there still people out there, who belive they "deserve" somethink better or more powerfull just becouse they invested (wasted) more real time for a game?? It's like a chess player want demant spezial moves just becouse he played chess for 20 years. Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Baren Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 5	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:37:00 - [118] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Yeah buff T3s and make them inaccessible to new players so veterans can be immortal gank gods. Great idea. SO your saying me playing since 2004 and having trainned all this time I do not deserve to be able to fly ship that are more skill intensive that newbs can't?
Baren Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 5	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:39:00 - [119] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Yeah buff T3s and make them inaccessible to new players so veterans can be immortal gank gods. Great idea. SO your saying me playing since 2004 and having trainned all this time I do not deserve to be able to fly ship that are more skill intensive that newbs can't? Jojo Jackson wrote: Baren wrote: My point being there should be a great gap between t1 t2 and t3.... each one should have quit abit more power And this is absolut WRONG. The goal for Tech3 was NEVER to be more powerfull then Tech2! They should be (and they are) more flexible which is perfectly fine. Want most gang? Use HAC. Want most tank (or fleet boost)? Use Command. Want best cloaky? Use Recon. Want a ship which can do several tasks at once but not as well as a spezialist? Use Tech3! Why are there still people out there, who belive they "deserve" somethink better or more powerfull just becouse they invested (wasted) more real time for a game?? It's like a chess player want demant spezial moves just becouse he played chess for 20 years. If you read carefully I said..My point being there should be a great gap between t1 t2 and t3.... each one should have quit abit more power that the one before and require quite a bit more training... t3s should be more powerful(not always DPS wise) than any t2 cruiser and same goes for t2 vs t1.. or whats the point. nerfing isnt the way to go or pretty soon in even they will nerf soo much every ship is pretty much equally.
Jojo Jackson Dead Red Eye 182	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:40:00 - [120] - Quote Baren wrote: Riot Girl wrote: Yeah buff T3s and make them inaccessible to new players so veterans can be immortal gank gods. Great idea. SO your saying me playing since 2004 and having trainned all this time I do not deserve to be able to fly ship that are more skill intensive that newbs can't? Right, you do NOT deserve it! The tower in chess can move just horizontal and vertical ... this will NOT change and it doesn't matter if you play chess for 1 day or 100 years! Noone deserve or has the right to move the tower in any other form equal for how long he play chess. Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

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