Just about everybody agrees that the damn t3 strategic cruisers are broken.

*just about everyone who doesnt have any idea what theyre talking about.

^fixed that for you.

T3s are flat out not over powered.
They are unbalanced with each other (legion im looking at you) and the different subsystems definitely could use rejigging to make more of them useful but as a ship compared to other ships, T3s are perfectly fine.

So far there have been rumors of nerfing the Tengu (which almost everyone agrees is the most broken t3 cruiser of them all...) for quite some time.

They are broken in regards to overpowering their supposedly more specialized T2 counterparts in almost every aspect.

In fact I'd say the Legion is the only one that's fine (except for being better at being a Booster than the Damnation, being a better prober than the Anathema, being a better Pilgrim than the Pilgrim itself and a better AHAC than the Zealot, but in the last two cases, cost offset works imho).

No T3 should ever surpass the specialized T2 ship in its specified role

T2 prices should be raised to subbed t3 level, because t3 price is... you know, overpowering. Also, you should lose a lvl of that t2 ship skill.

No T3 should ever surpass the specialized T2 ship in its specified role

They offer versatility for the price.

I used to love flying a legion with a locus analyzer, covert reconfiguration and an interdiction nullifier with a sisters expanded probe launcher whilst being able to fit an analyzer and a codebreaker in hostile space (well - fitting ACs and later Blasters to it was key) when T3s were introduced.

That's an example of a ship thats's still enourmously economic and being extremely versatile whilst being impossible to catch unless the pilot is drunk to the point of passing out.

A fine example of what a T3 should be. However, it still takes a fraction of the time to train for all that than training for most of the T2 counterparts, so the 4-5 days to take a sub back to V are negligible unless you're really low on SP or manage to lose them on a regular basis (in which case you should see a doctor and have your genome checked).

5 sub skills to V takes how long? So 5 skills with different stat remaps take 4-5 days total to train, right? Then you lose it when you pop. Yet it's still so much better than 1 perception/willpower skill that you keep forever, right? What are you smoking and can I haz?

So, for the price of several fitted t2 boats, I can get a set of different subs, that needs a station to fit (more difficult than swapping a ship), and it should be worse than one of these t2 boats?

See? This is why we can't have nice things - risk averse bums want to nerf expensive boats into the ground because they would never be willing to fly them anyway. The envy...

They're changing SMA's to allow you to reconfig subs in space...

Also, 5 sub skills to V takes 20-25 days. For example, getting logi, HAC's, and Recon to V takes bloody forever in comparison. But by getting all subs to V (assuming they only buff the bad subs, and not nerf any) you'll get a ship that does all of that, AND BETTER for only 20-25 days... Oh, and the worst that happens, you spend 5 days reskilling to 5.

I agree they should be worth their cost compared to the T2 ships, but they shouldn't blow some of them clear out of the water. I like where the Legion is at as a HAC, though most of its other subs need an overhaul.

ok, WHY not? people keep saying this but ive literally NEVER heard any good reason as to WHY this should be the case.

oh, and while we're on the subject BTW, the ONLY things T3s do better than T2 across the board are boost (which is already being fixed) and tank. their ewar is weaker/shorter range their logi is too short range their DPS is less than gank T2 ships (yes, even the proteus. tengu is the exception here but that's cos the nighthawk is fkn HORRIBLE and needs fixing big time.) their speed is less than T2 hell, even their tank is beaten by some T2 ships when you T2 fit them with T1 rigs.

what youre actually complaining about IS their generalization, NOT their specialization. which is ironic since you then say they should be generalized... so please, tell me again exactly how T3s are better at specific roles than T2.

See? This is why we can't have nice things - risk averse bums want to avoid having their cheap and easily trained boats nerfed to normal levels because they can't afford supercaps and want to stay invulnerable despite being scrubs- The envy...

A T3 with lvl V skilled Electronics Subs takes less time to train for than a fully trained cov ops frig whilst offering the same bonus to probing, an additional rig slot for another gravity cap upgrade, thus offering a higher potential for probe strength and an easy oiption to train for bubble-immunity at the same time within a week and a buck.

Hmm? Yes - that's what I (and Ytterbium) have been saying - they're still better at doing certain things T2 are supposed to do better because those are supposed to be more specialized. In most cases, they don't do them better, but equally good whilst providing a better tank, which is still renders them better in the end, so they're OP.

Neut cloaky legion vs pilgrim? Legion will have a bigger tank but no DPS. And no range bonus on neuts.

Pilgrim doesn't have the range bonus either. As a part of a larger gang where you don't need every little bit of DPS, the Legion does this better than a Pilgrim.

Of course, if you're in a gang that big you'll probably just bring a Domi/Armageddon (Odyssey)/Bhaalgorn...

No, silly, you'd bring a Curse.

Eeh, presently a Domi is cheaper, so if you buy them now they'll be a pretty good deal, and they get Heavy Neuts and good drone damage.

Curse is smaller and more efficient, but more expensive and doens't bring as much DPS. Also harder to skill into. I'd use the Curse, but the Domi works too.

Your PotatoSack will get left behind and be cracked open. And lol @ Bhaal, the entire region will come over and try to get on that km - OMG expensive boat KILL IT!

Btw, wouldn't you rather use a Legion?

I would tend to agree that the T3 Cruisers are not overpowered. Afaik, outside the FC Brick and Booster roles, the only T3s that see much action are the 100mn Tengu for small gang work, where it is just hard to deal with, but not particularly damaging, and the Loki, which is used in an alpha fleet by some 0.0 Coalitions and has some really effective counters.

So overall, T3's seem to punch at a level appropriate for their cost, which in a PVP configuration, is the most expensive ships after pirate battleships, and in PvE configurations, can quickly exceed 2-3 bil.

Honestly, I think Tech 3's need to have their rigs slots removed. This could be compensated a bit by adding an extra mid or low slot, for shield and armor defensive subs, respectively, and perhaps tweaking a few other bits.

This way, they'll lose a bit of functionality, but not cripplingly so, and more importantly will be able to be used how they were marketed. With rigs, they're pretty much stuck to whatever job they're rigged for....you basically have a really expensive HAC or Recon, in most cases. Coupled with the newfound ability to change subs at a POS, this will make them brilliantly good at being wormhole ships.

Yes, it will probably **** up a few popular fits, which might even be a good thing as they're OP in several roles, but overall I think it'll give them a rather unique role overall.

Honestly, I think Tech 3's need to have their rigs slots removed. This could be compensated a bit by adding an extra mid or low slot, for shield and armor defensive subs, respectively, and perhaps tweaking a few other bits.

This way, they'll lose a bit of functionality, but not cripplingly so, and more importantly will be able to be used how they were marketed. With rigs, they're pretty much stuck to whatever job they're rigged for....you basically have a really expensive HAC or Recon, in most cases. Coupled with the newfound ability to change subs at a POS, this will make them brilliantly good at being wormhole ships.

Yes, it will probably **** up a few popular fits, which might even be a good thing as they're OP in several roles, but overall I think it'll give them a rather unique role overall.

Ever seen an ecm tengu? neut legion? How about rr loki? Oh that's right, they suck compared to t2, for 5-10 times the price, just like you wanted. That explains why nobody is using them. And your idea of "balanced" is make t3 tank and dps worse than t2 too?

[...]st long range webber, you take the T2 rapier, because it does long range webs far better than anything else.
now, if you need it to also survive under heavy dps? well, you sacrifice 37.5% of your web range (which is a metric sh*t ton in eve terms) and gain the tank of a loki for a more generalized role.

this is a perfect case of working as intended by what youre saying.

The proteus, again does the heavy recon well, and does nice damage, it is a little odd that the proteus can nearly double that dps of all the other t3's, but I'm not sure if thats a reflection on the proteus itself beong OP, or the other t3's lacking.

do you even pay attention to what you type?
T3s do specific things flat out worse than T2.
rapier webs a lot further than loki. thats a specific role.
arazu points further than a proteus. thats a specific role.
astarte does more dps than a proteus. another specific role.

note: the T3s do not do these things 'equally', they do them a LOT worse.

youre factoring in tank to make it sound like this magically affects how well the specific role is being filled, which it doesnt.
the way it is now is if you want the best long range webber, you take the T2 rapier, because it does long range webs far better than anything else.
now, if you need it to also survive under heavy dps? well, you sacrifice 37.5% of your web range (which is a metric sh*t ton in eve terms) and gain the tank of a loki for a more generalized role.

this is a perfect case of working as intended by what youre saying.

First off this is flat out wrong. Crunch the numbers. It takes less time to go from zero to covert ops frigate 5 than to just sit in a T3 with all subs at 1. And even then you wouldn't have any tank or fitting skills. you can get away with that on a covert ops frigate, but you will want something for a T3 cruiser. And the covert ops frigate will be more survivable in most instances.

Neut cloaky legion vs pilgrim? Legion will have a bigger tank but no DPS. And no range bonus on neuts.

Yes - exactly. Obviously, the tradeoff isn't that bad - last time I checked a webbing Loki wasn't an uncommon sight, so the tradeoff apparently is woth it.

ok fine, you don't like my examples, provide a few supporting your case if you will.

Legion will provide stronger probing results than an Anathema because they have the same bonus to scan strength but the Legion can fit another Gravity Capacitor Upgrade.

Nighthawk can do nearly the damage (and better tank) than a Tengu, for a third of the cost. That's just one example.

If one has to train ages for, and pay over a Billion ISK to fly what is supposed to be a ship so advanced that it would out-perform advanced battleships in damage capability, why on earth should they be nerfed beyond what they already have? As it stands, a Nighthawk can do nearly the damage (and better tank) than a Tengu, for a third of the cost. That's just one example.

However, the issues of T3s are not these, but OGB mechanics (on the list), their link bonuses (on the list) and the underperforming HACs (next up on the list).

1) T3s are very fast to skill. Subsystems are rank 1, and the ship skill itself is not really necessary to take to V since it only affects overheating.

2) T2 fitted strategic cruisers are only about 500mil

3) T3s haven't been nerfed recently, or at all AFAIK. You still have cruiser-size ships with battleship tanks and dps, along with a dash of recon abilities.

However, the issues of T3s are not these, but OGB mechanics (on the list), their link bonuses (on the list) and the underperforming HACs (next up on the list). Fix these issues and remove one rig slot from T3s and everything should be fine.

To make this clear: this is an issue with HACs, not T3s.

Don't use faction and dead space mods for the purpose of balancing ships.

[Tengu, level 5]
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Thermic Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II

[Nighthawk, level 5 dps]

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II

Oh that's why your DPS is so low. You're using Heavy Missiles instead of HAMs. Well you know a Tengu can hit out to 70km with HAMs and still do more DPS than either of your fits there, right?

more DPS than either of your fits there.

in EFT the dps is 475 with all level 5 skills and 4 BCUs. The Nighthawk could get 446 with just 3 BCUs

So which one does more DPS?

Also;


Yes, glaring generality.

Her fit shows t1 scourge.

637 DPS and 70km range

My main other point is how you throw out a statement that a HAM tengu can hit to 75km without clarification, as if you can just take a tengu, throw some hams on it and bingo, uber range. When in fact you need over 120mil in rigs and T2 ammo to get that range.

Yep, with inferior explosion radius, explosion velocity and rate of fire. Paper DPS is higher (with the ammo she neglected to fit), and maybe applied DPS is higher at that range too (I'm not going to check). So... 637 DPS Tengu. Awesome

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, I can be so insensitive sometimes :3

Please elabborate on how the Tengu is broken, I'm thrilled as what problems you say it has.

half truth facts

You have already stated your belief that the Tengu is way overpowered (which it isn't).

And then you throw out a partial truth which makes it sound more overpowered than it is

As a comparative example, even as broken as the Cerberus is, without any extra rigs it can hit to 103KM with javelin ammo. With T2 fuel rigs that goes to 148km with assault missiles.

Is it normal for a Cruiser to have BS tank before taking mobility into consideration, capable of close to1000 DPS and applying damage out to 70km? If it's not overpowered, then I guess this is pretty common for many cruiser class ships, right?

I see a problem with T3 ships in nullsec with larger numbers because of their incredible HP and low sig. Bomber can easily destroy battleships, but they can't kill T3's unless you have 50 well hitting bombs I guess. OP?

If an alliance can field 300 Lokis, no one can stop them. They alpha nearly everything, while they don't have to worry about bombers. OP?

They can kite very much fleet comps because of their low sig = sig/speed tanking.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

I'm just wondering - who the hell is going to field 300 T3's like that for lulz?

Just about everybody agrees that the damn t3 strategic cruisers are broken.


*tanks armor and shield thermal resists to 99% and awaits the incoming flames*

T3's, when purely fit with T2 mods are flat out worse than the T2 specialized ship.

Nerff Nerff Nerff.


Whole point of this game way back when was If a ship was overpowered you need more people to kill it.

All this game is now is nerfs.


Frigs should not be able to kill battleships.

If you spent billions on a ship it used to just own everything till a fleet came in and killed youl.

I have quit playing this game because of all the nerfs.

IF anything that should of beefed up some ships not nerf them..

Speed nerf missile nerfs ship nerfs nerf nerf nerf..


Mission nerfs isk nerfs...


I'm Done. I have 3 110 million skill point toons. Worthless.


Have to say I more happy now play othere games.. It's like not working a second job just to keep the accounts going in isk.

Enjoy the NEFS

MR NASH

Also, 5 sub skills to V takes 20-25 days. For example, getting logi, HAC's, and Recon to V takes bloody forever in comparison

But by getting all subs to V (assuming they only buff the bad subs, and not nerf any) you'll get a ship that does all of that, AND BETTER for only 20-25 days

I see a problem with T3 ships in nullsec with larger numbers because of their incredible HP and low sig. Bomber can easily destroy battleships, but they can't kill T3's unless you have 50 well hitting bombs I guess. OP?

If an alliance can field 300 Lokis, no one can stop them. They alpha nearly everything, while they don't have to worry about bombers. OP?

They can kite very much fleet comps because of their low sig = sig/speed tanking.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

HTFU

I wonder if you'll still feel this way after the T3 tiericide. We can only wait and see.

OP, both of those suggestions are just ludicrous. Sure, Tengu needs a nerf (unforuntately), but the other three are already pretty weak so why bother?

By the way, still waiting to see a fit that can do everything you claim back on page 4.

25 days for Recon 5 - I can't point with my proteus at 109km like with my lach with boosts , jam with my tengu like with my falcon, Web with loki like I can do with huggin or neut with legion like I can do with curse

25days for Logi 5 -tell me when was the last time you saw a T3 gang with T3 logistics and please screen it, I'd like to have a nice laugh.

Both being exponentially overpowered over T3's doing or capable to do same stuff.

DPS T3's? -wtf is the issue??
HACs are total complete and utter crap except Zealot, that's not T3's fault.




I just proved to you they don't, you're displacing the real problem, being Command ships worst than they should be and HACs total kitty shite.

You should train for all 4 of them, use them as you seem to be experienced with logis and recons then come again tell us your experience, you'd change your opinion for sure.

The only way to get your T3 really badass is with your toon fully TOP 5 skills trained, pirate implants in his head, strong combat boosters (25M+piece) and another T3 pilot with links/implants and probably named implants worth billions+faction fits.
Then add tons of pimpy faction/officer stuff on your combat T3 and yes, you get a good ship. That's exactly what you can expect for this ship after that much effort (about the cost of a super hull just for 2 skilled implants/fitted toons)

Flash news, not everyone flies those that way and the chances you ever get one or a gang of these is in low sec and calm null sec entries but you can be sure they gtfo asap as soon as they start seeing numbers climb, they only attack the week unlike some very known players.

You mean you can't figure out a fit with EFT? It's not difficult.

[Tengu, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

10MN Afterburner II
Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

There you go, use whatever hardeners you like.

You seemed to get most of it. I hardly consider that a "battleship sized tank" (even considering its mobility)and at only 633m/s it would get caught and DIAF in any sort of PVP environment.

Maybe its an nice fit for PVE, but honestly does anyone really care about which ships are best for PVE? In PVP anything close to that fit that would be a nice Tengu killmail for someone.

In PVP anything close to that fit that would be a nice Tengu killmail for someone.

This still does 700 DPS @ 25km and has 118k EHP with a couple of mids for whatever you want.

Is it normal for a Cruiser to have BS tank before taking mobility into consideration, capable of close to1000 DPS and applying damage out to 70km? If it's not overpowered, then I guess this is pretty common for many cruiser class ships, right?

Yet is another fail. Those are both nice fits, but they don't achieve what you had clamed



Now maybe there was a typo. Maybe you meant to put OR in between those. Or maybe even "pick any two". But you didn't. This is what I was getting at originally. Yes your three facts above are technically true. But you state it in a way that would mislead those unaware with T3's to infer a Tengu can:

1. Be capable of close to 1000 DPS AND
2. Apply damage out to 70km AND
3. Have BS tank before taking mobility into consideration.

All at the same time. Even with T3's you have to sacrifice something to get the other.

Dunked.

Yes your three facts above are technically true

I know.

FTFY

Why do you care? If you're concerned about what new players think, you could have just clarified it for them and been done with it, instead of dragging out this whole embarrassing argument.

Problem with T3s imo:

-100MN AB fits: BS tank with frigate-class signature tanking should not exist. (170k EHP, 2.1km/s, 95m...)

-completely outperforms all HACs, most CS and some BSs in gank+tank fits

-approximately half of the subsystems are broken and almost never used

-cloacky ogb with better boosts than CS is lame (hopefully fixed "soon")

It's only embarrassing for you because you've been caught out in a blatant lie.

Just about everybody agrees that the damn t3 strategic cruisers are broken.

Just flat out busted.

So far there have been rumors of nerfing the Tengu (which almost everyone agrees is the most broken t3 cruiser of them all...) for quite some time.

I see a lot of talk on the legion being sad here.

Although it is the armor incursion ship of choice.

I think it just under preforms in PvP and is maybe over powered for group PvE.

People always think things are over powered or under powered based on what they personally do in Eve.

A ship that does something well and something not so well is what Eve is about.

Just go and check out the numbers in EFT. Max posible DPS with decent setup, max posible self-rep with decent setup. It even has just an average max EHP

What was the heavy missile nerf? I hadn't read anything about it prior (thought they were just tweaking cruise missiles), but it just knocked off 150+ dps from my Tengu. It was at least serviceable previously with a Covert Ops fit, but now it's entirely useless.

I'm not really seeing the problem here. Javelins could use a bit more range, maybe a 30% buff. Other than that, it seems fine to me.

Hands down they are players now, and alot my self included who have 100 or 200 + sp... they should buff t3s but make them more skill intensive. it getting to the point where everyone can fly a bread or a titan or t3... we need something for the older players to sink thier teeth into....

the skills to get into a t3 should be alot harder than any t2 ships... thats why its called a t3... hell look at the time it takes to get into a black ops bs.

Nerfing is not the solution.. they need to buff. or add more skills. what if they made it so every skill could now be trainned to level 6 or something lol not a actual solution but you get what i mean.

SAY NO TO NERF

Tengu has more DPS AND more tank at the same time (we all know how damn overpower the Tengu is)

Hell no!
The skill investments are fine and equal for all 4. Absolut no need to change them!

And I don't see a reason at all to have stuff which needs insane SP. And no, just being a Vet doesn't justify it. Veterans allready have the advantage of being able to fly many more ships then new players.
There is a armor-fleet? Jump into Legion OR Loki OR Proteus.
There is a shield-fleet? Jump into Loki OR Tengu (OR semi optimal Legion with 6 med slots).
There is a BC fleet? Pick one out of 8.
There is a BS fleet? Take the demanded one.

New players don't have this luxus. They might be able to fly one race (ex Amarr only or Caldari only). Even more when it comes to the more expensive Tech2 and Tech3 ships. And there is no argument, why it should be made even harder for new players to get into them!

My point being there should be a great gap between t1 t2 and t3.... each one should have quit abit more power

Yeah buff T3s and make them inaccessible to new players so veterans can be immortal gank gods. Great idea.

Yeah buff T3s and make them inaccessible to new players so veterans can be immortal gank gods. Great idea.

And this is absolut WRONG.
The goal for Tech3 was NEVER to be more powerfull then Tech2!

They should be (and they are) more flexible which is perfectly fine.

Want most gang? Use HAC.
Want most tank (or fleet boost)? Use Command.
Want best cloaky? Use Recon.

Want a ship which can do several tasks at once but not as well as a spezialist? Use Tech3!

Why are there still people out there, who belive they "deserve" somethink better or more powerfull just becouse they invested (wasted) more real time for a game?? It's like a chess player want demant spezial moves just becouse he played chess for 20 years.

SO your saying me playing since 2004 and having trainned all this time I do not deserve to be able to fly ship that are more skill intensive that newbs can't?

If you read carefully I said..My point being there should be a great gap between t1 t2 and t3.... each one should have quit abit more power that the one before and require quite a bit more training... t3s should be more powerful(not always DPS wise) than any t2 cruiser and same goes for t2 vs t1.. or whats the point. nerfing isnt the way to go or pretty soon in even they will nerf soo much every ship is pretty much equally.

SO your saying me playing since 2004 and having trainned all this time I do not deserve to be able to fly ship that are more skill intensive that newbs can't?

ITT:
Player who complains about losing to a high ship class in a 1 vs 1 and feels entitled that he should be able to win easily.
Waaahhh I lost my t1 bc to a t3. Its OP.
Imagine if he gets killed by a Commandship:
Waaah I lost my t1 to a cs. Its OP.
Lets make all the ships equal regardless of skill and isk costs. Such a great idea.

ITT:

Player who complains about losing to a high ship class in a 1 vs 1 and feels entitled that he should be able to win easily.


Waaahhh I lost my t1 bc to a t3. Its OP.

Imagine if he gets killed by a Commandship:


Waaah I lost my t1 to a cs. Its OP.


Lets make all the ships equal regardless of skill and isk costs. Such a great idea.

That's because versatility that is only achieved by extensive refitting is something noone cares for in the world of effective min-maxing. There are some uses for it, but they mostly involve CovOps sub. Versatility that is achieved within one fit (given that you don't achieve effectiveness of specialist ships). on the other hand...

T3s are basically ships that combine combat ability with recon-like utility plus some beef on top. That causes them to obsolete HACs oftentimes (if fitted for combat exclusively) or be real "combat recons" when fitted for utility, but not without tradeoffs when compared to real recons. Unless their utility sub isn't really good and their combat system isn't stellar ofc.

Aside from T3 vs HAC issue and virtually useless subs T3s don't seem to be that much broken, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

How to fix T3s :

(lots of good stuff)

- WH balancing special change : Find a way to cut Battleship mass by 50/60/70% while changing other values so that their ingame behavior doesn't change. Or add a hidden bonus like -50/-60/-70% mass when jumping in wormholes.

T3s are overused in wormholes because of their mass. No other sub-BS platform can compete with them, and rightly so. If you allow battleships to be used effectively in wormholes, you'll make Battleship-based doctrines possible. Yes, that's a big change, and that WILL yield great results for WHs as a whole.

I'm sure that battleships' overuse in wormholes won't ever be a problem. T3s are still superior to battleships in every way. But at least it will bring some diversity.

[...]

there are cruisers that can out dps or tank a tengu

Yeah? Which ones?

Okay. Which cruisers can beat a Tengu in either tank or DPS?

Personally, I think all T2 cruisers need to be rebalanced first and then T3 cruisers should be balanced to be equal to all the T2 cruisers in each role. This also means CCP should invent a stealthy T2 scanning cruiser for each race

Holy **** I actually almost agree with this entire statement.

Holy **** I actually almost agree with this entire statement.

1 - That T3 cruiser cost a poopload more than your crappy T2 HAC or whatever.

You also lose a skill level every time you die in one.

Seriously, since when have T1 items ever been better than T2 items?

A Tengu fitted for fleet fights will cost about 400-500m, which isn't massively expensive when compared with the BSes they are going up against. If you want to fit blingy modules, that's your decision. It has nothing to do with the cost of the ship, I can put blingy modules on any ship and demand it should be more powerful due to cost.


That's true, and I agree it adds up but what does it have to do with balance? How is that relevant to the way a Tengu performs in a fight? It doesn't affect other players at all and it's a pretty stupid mechanic. I think CCP should get rid of it when the T3s are rebalanced.


Not sure if serious.

It's been said many times that after tiericide the power difference between tech1 and tech 2 will be smaller. You get a linear increase in power for a expotential increase in cost. That will apply for tech 3's as well.

It's also been said many times that T2 will be the strongest ship in their specialization. For example a curse will be a better neuting ship than a legion but the legion will be good at more things (not the best but good). For example the curse has low ehp sen the legion would have a better tank while still being a good neuter.

You don't get to pick and choose which parts to argue with.

Sure, a fleet fitted Tengu costs around 450-500M. How much does a fleet fitted HAC cost? And you can't compare them to battleships either - apples to oranges.

Losing skills with a loss IS a balance

I'm talking hulls, not modules. Besides a few rare, extremely isolated cases

If you can't afford to fly one, get better at making ISK. It's not hard. If you're really too risk averse or your corp / alliance is to risk averse to handle losing some, well...... HTFU princess. Keep flying HAC's. I don't hear any complaining from people flying T1 frigates getting owned by assault frigates... it's the same thing, plus a few hundred million.

lol you kidding right.... are you really comparing a T3 to a BS

you can get into a BS after just a couple months, a T3 requires alot more 1 year or more to fly well.

lol you kidding right.... are you really comparing a T3 to a BS..... you can get into a BS after just a couple months, a T3 requires alot more 1 year or more to fly well.

Yeah okay. Sorry I hurt your feelings.

What are you talking about?