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Fornic McKraken
Deadman W0nderland
Tribal Band
0
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Posted - 2013.04.30 13:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
It seems CCP has the wrong idea of how to balance ships. When a ship or style of fighting becomes OP, they need to improve other ships and styles rather than make the ships everyone loves to fly (cough cough... Hurricane) worse. If many pilots are flying a ship because it is successful, why nerf it?
Tracking enhancers are a large part of PVP and removing the optimal range bonus will make many ships close to impossible to fly. Almost none of the ships that change will impact the most have the mid slots to add tracking computers. Furthermore, when people have skilled into certain ships, such as Minmatar, the last thing they want to see is all of their favorite ships nerfed.
CCP Stop nerfing minmatar ships. Seriously. What is the point? All you are doing is pissing people off instead of making the game more fun. How about you increase armor HP. Or increase the bonus for the honeycombing skill. Or improve web drones. I have been playing Eve for a year and a half, (I know that isn't long compared to some) but it seems CCP is trying to make small gang PVP worse. And if you are going to nerf something how about nerf jamming. Nothing else in EWAR takes a ship completely out of the fight. That could easily be balanced by creating targeting assist drones that significantly increase your sensor strength. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
114
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Posted - 2013.04.30 13:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
They answered this many times.
to avoid power creep.
it really is that simple. They have buffed a lot of ships in the past, and if you dont see that TEs are way to good then I feel sorry for you.
And small gangs are well and fine atm, we regularly take small gangs out late US timezone with just a few cruisers and have a blast. Something you couldnt have done a year ago. |
Lavida Misu
Brave Newbies Inc.
3
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Posted - 2013.04.30 13:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
navy hurricane is the old hurricane. :P |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
338
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Posted - 2013.04.30 13:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
another one ...... |
Kosetzu
Aeons Multiplied
64
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Posted - 2013.04.30 14:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
You do understand that the reason everyone loves to fly those ships is because they were considered better than the rest? That the balancing of them puts them more in line with others, making each ship a solid choice?
Or are you one of those who hate thinking and can't deal with having multiple good ship choices? |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University
Ivy League
108
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Posted - 2013.04.30 14:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
So Cynabals being able to kite you outside of web range and hitting you for full damage with autocannons is completely good game design right. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
1331
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Posted - 2013.04.30 14:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:So Cynabals being able to kite you outside of web range and hitting you for full damage with autocannons is completely good game design right.
Cynabals haven't been looked at for balance yet right? |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE
Initiative Mercenaries
736
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think she was talking about TEs.
Oh god. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University
Ivy League
108
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:I think she was talking about TEs.
^ I was :D |
Mirel Dystoph
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
47
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:So Cynabals being able to kite you outside of web range and hitting you for full damage with autocannons is completely good game design right.
ITT what is falloff general
"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise."-á |
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Goldensaver
Fishii Enterprise
176
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
The 'Cane was nerfed with good reason. The Rifter was nerfed with good reason. The Rupture was not buffed as much as the other cruisers with good reason. The Drake (and HM's) was nerfed with good reason. The TE's getting nerfed with good reason.
They were overpowered, and tiericide is already bringing enough power creep.
Also, I think you're overreacting over the TE nerf. Anybody who used a TE is getting nerfed as well, so comparatively ranges will remain about the same, but now that one module doesn't give too much of a bonus. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1034
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cane needed the nerf badly. It's a cheap disposable boat that's way too good for its price. Something like the Mach would not need the nerf because few ppl have the balls to fly it (not 1400 sniping bubble camp from far away, where the victim is dead either way, real flying) and risk the entire region come over for the km. The more cost-effective something is, the better it must be balanced.
And the TE nerf was pointless. Just use scripted TCs, and fill lows with dmg mods and nano. Real men fly paper hard and fast.
Standings Improvement Service
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1283
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Easy solution: stop flying the flavor of the day. Be--- *gasp* --- original.
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1034
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Easy solution: stop flying the flavor of the day. Be--- *gasp* --- original.
Fly like a masochist loser.
"Original" fits are bad. All the working fits have already been invented by someone else. You are not a special snowflake. Whatever you come up with will either be not original, or crap.
Standings Improvement Service
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Fornic McKraken
Deadman W0nderland
Tribal Band
0
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wow a lot of minm haters. Yeah Minm was OP.
and Lady Naween you are right. There are plenty of ways to do small gang pvp that are fun and don't involve cynabals, talos or vagas.
That doesn't mean they should nerf an entire style of fighting. How much tank will a vaga have now that is has to use a mid slot for range? 17K EHP? . I offered several options that would give ships that fall victim to kiting a better chance and I'm sure there are plenty more out there.
and Kosetzu, there is no need try and attack my intellect instead of making decent points. There will always be ships that are better at some things, like pvp, than others. Even after the changes.
Part of what is fun about Eve is there are so many different ways to fight. If you are trying to take down a spider tanking Ishtar fleet, you use blackbirds or lockbreaker bombs. If fighting a cynabal gang, you use huginns, lachs and oracles. There are many ways to pvp and there will always be ones that are more often successful than others.
If TEs make ACs OP then don't nerf missles to begin with. Take a mid slot from the drake instead of crushing HM dps. A cane vs drake used to be a good fight if you were any good at flying them.
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nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2013.04.30 18:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
eve needs some new ship setups.For most of the ships we have now there is 1 setup, mostly shield based with TE. CCP tries to balance this a bit and make armor more viable. Also, i think you wasn't here when everyone was crying about TE but now we have this *don't nerf this* thread from someone that doesn't know what is/was happening |
Kasutra
Tailor Company
Hashashin Cartel
189
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Posted - 2013.04.30 18:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fornic McKraken wrote:Part of what is fun about Eve is there are so many different ways to fight. If you are trying to take down a spider tanking Ishtar fleet, you use blackbirds or lockbreaker bombs. If fighting a cynabal gang, you use huginns, lachs and oracles. There are many ways to pvp and there will always be ones that are more often successful than others.
Yes. There are many different ships to fly.
The thing you're not seeing is that there being many ships to fly isn't automatic. It's a result of balancing work. Thanks to the Hurricane/Rifter/Drake/Tengu/whatever now not being a dominant option, we have more viable options.
Fornic McKraken wrote:If TEs make ACs OP then don't nerf missles to begin with. Take a mid slot from the drake instead of crushing HM dps.
Please look up the term "power creep" as it applies to game design. You seem to be unaware of the ramifications. |
Fornic McKraken
Deadman W0nderland
Tribal Band
0
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Posted - 2013.04.30 19:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thank you for a more productive reply. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility
Casoff
258
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Posted - 2013.04.30 20:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
On a fairly unproductive note, fly Blasters, give not a single fu*k when TE's get nerfed.
I'm talking proper blaster flying here, not shield tank "Blaster Kiting" only the Talos can do that really well, and that ship will be fine.
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1034
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Posted - 2013.04.30 20:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:On a fairly unproductive note, fly Blasters, give not a single fu*k when TE's get nerfed.
I'm talking proper blaster flying here, not shield tank "Blaster Kiting" only the Talos can do that really well, and that ship will be fine.
You want more ppl for easy kms? It'll be turkey shoot... But alas, these stupid enough to take your expert advice would already have been popped before you got to them.
Standings Improvement Service
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1285
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Posted - 2013.04.30 20:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Easy solution: stop flying the flavor of the day. Be--- *gasp* --- original. Fly like a masochist loser. "Original" fits are bad. All the working fits have already been invented by someone else. You are not a special snowflake. Whatever you come up with will either be not original, or crap.
You're quite right, everyone should just be yet another sheep-like unoriginal failure. Good advice. You keep flying that Battleclinic-fit Machariel, Mr. Awesome.
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1034
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Posted - 2013.04.30 20:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:sabre906 wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Easy solution: stop flying the flavor of the day. Be--- *gasp* --- original. Fly like a masochist loser. "Original" fits are bad. All the working fits have already been invented by someone else. You are not a special snowflake. Whatever you come up with will either be not original, or crap. You're quite right, everyone should just be yet another sheep-like unoriginal failure. Good advice. You keep flying that Battleclinic-fit Machariel, Mr. Awesome.
Lol, I'm not nearly rich enough to fly pvp Machs, nor do I possess the required paranoia. But please, enlighten us with your original fits so that we may encourage you to undock with it.
Standings Improvement Service
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University
Ivy League
109
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Posted - 2013.04.30 22:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fornic McKraken wrote:
and Lady Naween you are right. There are plenty of ways to do small gang pvp that are fun and don't involve cynabals, talos or vagas.
That doesn't mean they should nerf an entire style of fighting. How much tank will a vaga have now that is has to use a mid slot for range? 17K EHP? . I offered several options that would give ships that fall victim to kiting a better chance and I'm sure there are plenty more out there.
who says you have to use a TC?
It just means you use a TE but you might (god forbid) give the chance for that blaster boat to possibly get webs on you if he pilots well.
At the moment all those annoying-ass kiting AC platforms just orbit you at 20km and because of their superior agility that 7km gap is just gives them too much breathing space and it basically makes flying those things completely risk free: complete range dictation combined with ability to leave whenever you want means overpowered.
Now you might actually have to get 3-4km closer to apply enough damage to break them and actually RISK your ship in pvp. Crazy concept yes? |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
Caldari State Capturing
415
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Posted - 2013.04.30 23:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
When was the rifter nerfed? It is exactly the same now as before the frigate rebalances. The other races were brought up in line with the rifter capabilties.
Current ship balance is prabably the best it has been for a long time in eve for all the ship line that have been redone. As the bigger ship lines and T2/3 stuff gets done then the balance will probably be spot on.
I fly minnie the most (allough I'm equally skilled across all races/weapons) and I have no problem with the TE changes or the general modifications to specific ships (i.e. cane) as they were very much needed to bring balance back.
oh an navy cane is NOT the old cane. It would stomp the old cane done hard! Navy cane is similar to the old cane in layout etc but the HP is far greater.
That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2013.04.30 23:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bah... This game has become Nerf Online... |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
124
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Posted - 2013.04.30 23:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Bah... This game has become Nerf Online...
well thought out argument Sir, we are all in awe of your comprehensive and flawless deductions.
clearly everything is nerfed and not just balanced as we previously but wrongly thought.
Might I inquire if we can subscribe to your newsletter? |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
789
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Posted - 2013.04.30 23:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Bah... This game has become Nerf Online...
Nerf one thing and you buff everything else
Thus buffs vastly outnumber nerfs
BUFFS ONLINE!
BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
136
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Posted - 2013.05.01 00:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Now you might actually have to get 3-4km closer to apply enough damage to break them and actually RISK your ship in pvp. Crazy concept yes?
what's even crazier is that amarr or gallente sr brawler running te's for the same reason of boosint range is getting nerfed. So even if they have to get closer they are still in damage bleed off range of those now reduced ranges too.
Why I am not seeing this as a minmatar nerf. All guns get it. Instead of running burst and collision acc rigs the minny pilots will have to run sneak an ambit in. Oh the horror. Or that ambit they run now to get uber fallofff with TEat point range needs to be something more radical like a resist or HP boosting rig since they will be taking more damage now.
Range means that much they can also do wacky crap like train level 5's like AF to get it back a bit. Why I am not crying over the "nerf". I trained AF to 5 for my jags and wolves. I know what TE does with that level 5. As ccp is looking to put this gravy train out of commission I only have 1 question.....wtf took so long as one could say the setup was too nice if objective lol. its been a good run, now I will have to get my hands a bit dirtier. Not a bad thing all in all.
Or they can come to caldari. this change doesn't really affect them. they were the only race that used TE to actually enhance tracking. they have thier range boosts. And the crap tracking and damage as a caveat. Who knows, perhaps in this new era lolrox and eagle may blot out the sun as people find a new ship to kite in. Maybe I will win 10 miliions dollars today too. |
Ron Maudieu
19
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Posted - 2013.05.01 06:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bringing shield-tanked ships closer to ships that I love to fly.  |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
143
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
Fornic McKraken wrote:How much tank will a vaga have now that is has to use a mid slot for range? 17K EHP?
You know, there was a time before TEs and TCs added falloff. Amazingly, without any ability to increase the range of the ACs on the Vagabond, people still flew it... In fact it was one of the most popular raiding ships in EVE.
And you know what else?
People got kills... lots of kills, in Vaga's with no TEs fitted at all. |
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