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Fornic McKraken Deadman W0nderland Tribal Band 0	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:23:00 - [1] - Quote It seems CCP has the wrong idea of how to balance ships. When a ship or style of fighting becomes OP, they need to improve other ships and styles rather than make the ships everyone loves to fly (cough cough... Hurricane) worse. If many pilots are flying a ship because it is successful, why nerf it? Tracking enhancers are a large part of PVP and removing the optimal range bonus will make many ships close to impossible to fly. Almost none of the ships that change will impact the most have the mid slots to add tracking computers. Furthermore, when people have skilled into certain ships, such as Minmatar, the last thing they want to see is all of their favorite ships nerfed. CCP Stop nerfing minmatar ships. Seriously. What is the point? All you are doing is pissing people off instead of making the game more fun. How about you increase armor HP. Or increase the bonus for the honeycombing skill. Or improve web drones. I have been playing Eve for a year and a half, (I know that isn't long compared to some) but it seems CCP is trying to make small gang PVP worse. And if you are going to nerf something how about nerf jamming. Nothing else in EWAR takes a ship completely out of the fight. That could easily be balanced by creating targeting assist drones that significantly increase your sensor strength.
Lady Naween Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 114	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:28:00 - [2] - Quote They answered this many times. to avoid power creep. it really is that simple. They have buffed a lot of ships in the past, and if you dont see that TEs are way to good then I feel sorry for you. And small gangs are well and fine atm, we regularly take small gangs out late US timezone with just a few cruisers and have a blast. Something you couldnt have done a year ago.
Lavida Misu Brave Newbies Inc. 3	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:34:00 - [3] - Quote navy hurricane is the old hurricane. :P
Naomi Knight Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 338	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:35:00 - [4] - Quote another one ......
Kosetzu Aeons Multiplied 64	Posted - 2013.04.30 14:00:00 - [5] - Quote You do understand that the reason everyone loves to fly those ships is because they were considered better than the rest? That the balancing of them puts them more in line with others, making each ship a solid choice? Or are you one of those who hate thinking and can't deal with having multiple good ship choices?
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 108	Posted - 2013.04.30 14:04:00 - [6] - Quote So Cynabals being able to kite you outside of web range and hitting you for full damage with autocannons is completely good game design right.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1331	Posted - 2013.04.30 14:57:00 - [7] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: So Cynabals being able to kite you outside of web range and hitting you for full damage with autocannons is completely good game design right. Cynabals haven't been looked at for balance yet right?
Riot Girl RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries 736	Posted - 2013.04.30 15:04:00 - [8] - Quote I think she was talking about TEs. Oh god.
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 108	Posted - 2013.04.30 15:17:00 - [9] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: I think she was talking about TEs. ^ I was :D
Mirel Dystoph Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 47	Posted - 2013.04.30 16:02:00 - [10] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: So Cynabals being able to kite you outside of web range and hitting you for full damage with autocannons is completely good game design right. ITT what is falloff general "Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise."-á

Goldensaver Fishii Enterprise 176	Posted - 2013.04.30 16:40:00 - [11] - Quote The 'Cane was nerfed with good reason. The Rifter was nerfed with good reason. The Rupture was not buffed as much as the other cruisers with good reason. The Drake (and HM's) was nerfed with good reason. The TE's getting nerfed with good reason. They were overpowered, and tiericide is already bringing enough power creep. Also, I think you're overreacting over the TE nerf. Anybody who used a TE is getting nerfed as well, so comparatively ranges will remain about the same, but now that one module doesn't give too much of a bonus.
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice 1034	Posted - 2013.04.30 16:49:00 - [12] - Quote Cane needed the nerf badly. It's a cheap disposable boat that's way too good for its price. Something like the Mach would not need the nerf because few ppl have the balls to fly it (not 1400 sniping bubble camp from far away, where the victim is dead either way, real flying) and risk the entire region come over for the km. The more cost-effective something is, the better it must be balanced. And the TE nerf was pointless. Just use scripted TCs, and fill lows with dmg mods and nano. Real men fly paper hard and fast. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454
Ginger Barbarella Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1283	Posted - 2013.04.30 16:57:00 - [13] - Quote Easy solution: stop flying the flavor of the day. Be--- gasp --- original. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice 1034	Posted - 2013.04.30 17:18:00 - [14] - Quote Ginger Barbarella wrote: Easy solution: stop flying the flavor of the day. Be--- gasp --- original. Fly like a masochist loser. "Original" fits are bad. All the working fits have already been invented by someone else. You are not a special snowflake. Whatever you come up with will either be not original, or crap. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454
Fornic McKraken Deadman W0nderland Tribal Band 0	Posted - 2013.04.30 17:25:00 - [15] - Quote Wow a lot of minm haters. Yeah Minm was OP. and Lady Naween you are right. There are plenty of ways to do small gang pvp that are fun and don't involve cynabals, talos or vagas. That doesn't mean they should nerf an entire style of fighting. How much tank will a vaga have now that is has to use a mid slot for range? 17K EHP? . I offered several options that would give ships that fall victim to kiting a better chance and I'm sure there are plenty more out there. and Kosetzu, there is no need try and attack my intellect instead of making decent points. There will always be ships that are better at some things, like pvp, than others. Even after the changes. Part of what is fun about Eve is there are so many different ways to fight. If you are trying to take down a spider tanking Ishtar fleet, you use blackbirds or lockbreaker bombs. If fighting a cynabal gang, you use huginns, lachs and oracles. There are many ways to pvp and there will always be ones that are more often successful than others. If TEs make ACs OP then don't nerf missles to begin with. Take a mid slot from the drake instead of crushing HM dps. A cane vs drake used to be a good fight if you were any good at flying them.
nahjustwarpin Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 59	Posted - 2013.04.30 18:14:00 - [16] - Quote eve needs some new ship setups.For most of the ships we have now there is 1 setup, mostly shield based with TE. CCP tries to balance this a bit and make armor more viable. Also, i think you wasn't here when everyone was crying about TE but now we have this don't nerf this thread from someone that doesn't know what is/was happening
Kasutra Tailor Company Hashashin Cartel 189	Posted - 2013.04.30 18:26:00 - [17] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: Part of what is fun about Eve is there are so many different ways to fight. If you are trying to take down a spider tanking Ishtar fleet, you use blackbirds or lockbreaker bombs. If fighting a cynabal gang, you use huginns, lachs and oracles. There are many ways to pvp and there will always be ones that are more often successful than others. Yes. There are many different ships to fly. The thing you're not seeing is that there being many ships to fly isn't automatic. It's a result of balancing work. Thanks to the Hurricane/Rifter/Drake/Tengu/whatever now not being a dominant option, we have more viable options. Fornic McKraken wrote: If TEs make ACs OP then don't nerf missles to begin with. Take a mid slot from the drake instead of crushing HM dps. Please look up the term "power creep" as it applies to game design. You seem to be unaware of the ramifications.
Fornic McKraken Deadman W0nderland Tribal Band 0	Posted - 2013.04.30 19:43:00 - [18] - Quote Thank you for a more productive reply.
Liam Inkuras Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 258	Posted - 2013.04.30 20:26:00 - [19] - Quote On a fairly unproductive note, fly Blasters, give not a single fu*k when TE's get nerfed. I'm talking proper blaster flying here, not shield tank "Blaster Kiting" only the Talos can do that really well, and that ship will be fine. I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice 1034	Posted - 2013.04.30 20:31:00 - [20] - Quote Liam Inkuras wrote: On a fairly unproductive note, fly Blasters, give not a single fuk when TE's get nerfed. I'm talking proper blaster flying here, not shield tank "Blaster Kiting" only the Talos can do that really well, and that ship will be fine. You want more ppl for easy kms? It'll be turkey shoot... But alas, these stupid enough to take your expert advice would already have been popped before you got to them. Standings Improvement Service* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454

Ginger Barbarella Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1285	Posted - 2013.04.30 20:36:00 - [21] - Quote sabre906 wrote: Ginger Barbarella wrote: Easy solution: stop flying the flavor of the day. Be--- gasp --- original. Fly like a masochist loser. "Original" fits are bad. All the working fits have already been invented by someone else. You are not a special snowflake. Whatever you come up with will either be not original, or crap. You're quite right, everyone should just be yet another sheep-like unoriginal failure. Good advice. You keep flying that Battleclinic-fit Machariel, Mr. Awesome. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice 1034	Posted - 2013.04.30 20:48:00 - [22] - Quote Ginger Barbarella wrote: sabre906 wrote: Ginger Barbarella wrote: Easy solution: stop flying the flavor of the day. Be--- gasp --- original. Fly like a masochist loser. "Original" fits are bad. All the working fits have already been invented by someone else. You are not a special snowflake. Whatever you come up with will either be not original, or crap. You're quite right, everyone should just be yet another sheep-like unoriginal failure. Good advice. You keep flying that Battleclinic-fit Machariel, Mr. Awesome. Lol, I'm not nearly rich enough to fly pvp Machs, nor do I possess the required paranoia. But please, enlighten us with your original fits so that we may encourage you to undock with it. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 109	Posted - 2013.04.30 22:18:00 - [23] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: and Lady Naween you are right. There are plenty of ways to do small gang pvp that are fun and don't involve cynabals, talos or vagas. That doesn't mean they should nerf an entire style of fighting. How much tank will a vaga have now that is has to use a mid slot for range? 17K EHP? . I offered several options that would give ships that fall victim to kiting a better chance and I'm sure there are plenty more out there. who says you have to use a TC? It just means you use a TE but you might (god forbid) give the chance for that blaster boat to possibly get webs on you if he pilots well. At the moment all those annoying-ass kiting AC platforms just orbit you at 20km and because of their superior agility that 7km gap is just gives them too much breathing space and it basically makes flying those things completely risk free: complete range dictation combined with ability to leave whenever you want means overpowered. Now you might actually have to get 3-4km closer to apply enough damage to break them and actually RISK your ship in pvp. Crazy concept yes?
Taoist Dragon Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing 415	Posted - 2013.04.30 23:18:00 - [24] - Quote When was the rifter nerfed? It is exactly the same now as before the frigate rebalances. The other races were brought up in line with the rifter capabilties. Current ship balance is prabably the best it has been for a long time in eve for all the ship line that have been redone. As the bigger ship lines and T2/3 stuff gets done then the balance will probably be spot on. I fly minnie the most (allough I'm equally skilled across all races/weapons) and I have no problem with the TE changes or the general modifications to specific ships (i.e. cane) as they were very much needed to bring balance back. oh an navy cane is NOT the old cane. It would stomp the old cane done hard! Navy cane is similar to the old cane in layout etc but the HP is far greater. That is the Way, the Tao. Balance is everything.
Doc Severide Caldari Provisions Caldari State 45	Posted - 2013.04.30 23:32:00 - [25] - Quote Bah... This game has become Nerf Online...
Lady Naween Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 124	Posted - 2013.04.30 23:39:00 - [26] - Quote Doc Severide wrote: Bah... This game has become Nerf Online... well thought out argument Sir, we are all in awe of your comprehensive and flawless deductions. clearly everything is nerfed and not just balanced as we previously but wrongly thought. Might I inquire if we can subscribe to your newsletter?
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 789	Posted - 2013.04.30 23:43:00 - [27] - Quote Doc Severide wrote: Bah... This game has become Nerf Online... Nerf one thing and you buff everything else Thus buffs vastly outnumber nerfs BUFFS ONLINE! BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 136	Posted - 2013.05.01 00:31:00 - [28] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: Now you might actually have to get 3-4km closer to apply enough damage to break them and actually RISK your ship in pvp. Crazy concept yes? what's even crazier is that amarr or gallente sr brawler running te's for the same reason of boosint range is getting nerfed. So even if they have to get closer they are still in damage bleed off range of those now reduced ranges too. Why I am not seeing this as a minmatar nerf. All guns get it. Instead of running burst and collision acc rigs the minny pilots will have to run sneak an ambit in. Oh the horror. Or that ambit they run now to get uber fallofff with TEat point range needs to be something more radical like a resist or HP boosting rig since they will be taking more damage now. Range means that much they can also do wacky crap like train level 5's like AF to get it back a bit. Why I am not crying over the "nerf". I trained AF to 5 for my jags and wolves. I know what TE does with that level 5. As ccp is looking to put this gravy train out of commission I only have 1 question.....wtf took so long as one could say the setup was too nice if objective lol. its been a good run, now I will have to get my hands a bit dirtier. Not a bad thing all in all. Or they can come to caldari. this change doesn't really affect them. they were the only race that used TE to actually enhance tracking. they have thier range boosts. And the crap tracking and damage as a caveat. Who knows, perhaps in this new era lolrox and eagle may blot out the sun as people find a new ship to kite in. Maybe I will win 10 miliions dollars today too.
Ron Maudieu 19	Posted - 2013.05.01 06:17:00 - [29] - Quote Bringing shield-tanked ships closer to ships that I love to fly.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 143	Posted - 2013.05.01 07:27:00 - [30] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: How much tank will a vaga have now that is has to use a mid slot for range? 17K EHP? You know, there was a time before TEs and TCs added falloff. Amazingly, without any ability to increase the range of the ACs on the Vagabond, people still flew it... In fact it was one of the most popular raiding ships in EVE. And you know what else? People got kills... lots of kills, in Vaga's with no TEs fitted at all.

Airto TLA Puppeteers of Doom 29	Posted - 2013.05.01 21:04:00 - [31] - Quote Generally if one ship/system is high of its proper place on the power curve nerf it, it is lower buff it, The tricky part is when balance is really whacked and you have to move everything at once. This in my opinion is how angels got overpowered, they realized non sansha pirate boats were weak, and projectiles were a little off, So they buffed projectiles (more damage types), buffed the angel ships, and buffed the TE far the hell of it in a way that helped projectiles the most )falloff). So now you had the fastest ships with a gun that could be useful at long range and boom you have OP.
Lallante Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 295	Posted - 2013.05.02 10:45:00 - [32] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: It seems CCP has the wrong idea of how to balance ships. When a ship or style of fighting becomes OP, they need to improve other ships and styles rather than make the ships everyone loves to fly (cough cough... Hurricane) worse. If many pilots are flying a ship because it is successful, why nerf it? Tracking enhancers are a large part of PVP and removing the optimal range bonus will make many ships close to impossible to fly. Almost none of the ships that change will impact the most have the mid slots to add tracking computers. Furthermore, when people have skilled into certain ships, such as Minmatar, the last thing they want to see is all of their favorite ships nerfed. CCP Stop nerfing minmatar ships. Seriously. What is the point? All you are doing is pissing people off instead of making the game more fun. How about you increase armor HP. Or increase the bonus for the honeycombing skill. Or improve web drones. I have been playing Eve for a year and a half, (I know that isn't long compared to some) but it seems CCP is trying to make small gang PVP worse. And if you are going to nerf something how about nerf jamming. Nothing else in EWAR takes a ship completely out of the fight. That could easily be balanced by creating targeting assist drones that significantly increase your sensor strength. You are everything that is wrong with most other games. Thank **** CCP knows your tricks. Hint: if there is a ship "everyone loves to fly" its almost certainly because its stupidly overpowered.
Fornic McKraken Deadman W0nderland Tribal Band 1	Posted - 2013.05.06 07:46:00 - [33] - Quote Most of you are missing my point. I never said kiting AC ships were not OP. I never said there wasn't a need for balancing. I said, in order to balance the ships they should improve others rather than nerf. Not that anyone is paying attention to this post anymore. But stupid comments like the one posted by Lallante are not productive. So people like me are the problem with games? what because you lose to them? My KB isn't even all that good. I like good fights and don't rely on ganking. I lose ships all the time because I enjoy pvp and don't really care. Yes I may have exaggerated the potential impact of the TE nerf on some ships but I still dislike the idea of making ships worse just cause they are too good at killing. How about make the ships losing all the time better instead. There are many ways of doing that but instead of offering good ideas, many people just cried like babies. "Whaaa Whaaa, I die to AC ships, they need to be nerfed." Instead of trying to belittle me for trying to think of ways to make ships better able to fight kiting ships, how about you offer new ideas.
Robert Lefcourt Audentia et Artis E.B.O.L.A. 17	Posted - 2013.05.06 08:09:00 - [34] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: So Cynabals being able to kite you outside of web range and hitting you for full damage with autocannons is completely good game design right. Devs already stated that they will be nerfed. regards, Rob
Robert Lefcourt Audentia et Artis E.B.O.L.A. 17	Posted - 2013.05.06 08:16:00 - [35] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: Most of you are missing my point. I never said kiting AC ships were not OP. I never said there wasn't a need for balancing. I said, in order to balance the ships they should improve others rather than nerf. So if one ship is out of line they should buff all others instead of nerfing one? You have to consider what goes along with buffing a whole line of ships. Get one wrong, and you will have to buff the others to keep up, an endless spiral. Ships are getting too easy to fly in Plexes and Missions and so on. Nah, nerfing the one which is out of line is much, much more efffective. Regards, Rob
Tashima Reconfiguration Nation Existential Anxiety 2	Posted - 2013.05.06 09:02:00 - [36] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: It seems CCP has the wrong idea of how to balance ships. When a ship or style of fighting becomes OP, they need to improve other ships and styles rather than make the ships everyone loves to fly (cough cough... Hurricane) worse. If many pilots are flying a ship because it is successful, why nerf it? They have exactly the right idea. Its how you do it. You cant try and balance a single "OP" ship by making every other ship better. That's just stupid.
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 985	Posted - 2013.05.06 09:05:00 - [37] - Quote Ginger Barbarella wrote: sabre906 wrote: Ginger Barbarella wrote: Easy solution: stop flying the flavor of the day. Be--- gasp --- original. Fly like a masochist loser. "Original" fits are bad. All the working fits have already been invented by someone else. You are not a special snowflake. Whatever you come up with will either be not original, or crap. You're quite right, everyone should just be yet another sheep-like unoriginal failure. Good advice. You keep flying that Battleclinic-fit Machariel, Mr. Awesome. how about you try eating a barrel of crude oil for breakfast? or wearing a refrigerator box instead of clothes and a pair of smartphones for shoes? imo it's the best way to ensure that you are not an unoriginal failure. also, battleclinic fits and working fits are two sets that barely overlap. "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Lady Naween Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 131	Posted - 2013.05.07 01:52:00 - [38] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: Most of you are missing my point. I never said kiting AC ships were not OP. I never said there wasn't a need for balancing. I said, in order to balance the ships they should improve others rather than nerf. Not that anyone is paying attention to this post anymore. But stupid comments like the one posted by Lallante are not productive. So people like me are the problem with games? what because you lose to them? My KB isn't even all that good. I like good fights and don't rely on ganking. I lose ships all the time because I enjoy pvp and don't really care. Yes I may have exaggerated the potential impact of the TE nerf on some ships but I still dislike the idea of making ships worse just cause they are too good at killing. How about make the ships losing all the time better instead. There are many ways of doing that but instead of offering good ideas, many people just cried like babies. "Whaaa Whaaa, I die to AC ships, they need to be nerfed." Instead of trying to belittle me for trying to think of ways to make ships better able to fight kiting ships, how about you offer new ideas. I already answered it, it is called power creep. It really is that simple. If you keep buffing everything to match the strongest ships you will end up with say.. lets take the example of the hurricane. So now we buff everything up to hurricane levels, making battleships (who already struggle in smaller pvp (ie not huge f1 alpha blobs) even worse looking. Ok so lets buff those as well... see where this is going? Oh wait, now cruisers are crap, lets buff.. and lets see frigs.. soon we have frigs with 50.000 DPS because we just over the years kept buffing things instead of when we have 1 or two ships in a class that are clearly MUCH better then their peers we could you know.. bring them down to the correct level where they will fit in with the others in that class and the class above and below. WHich is what CCP is doing. For a looong time cruisers and frigs where.. well.. why fly them over the drake and hurricane? There really was no point, so now they are fixed and what do we see in lowsec (the area I can comment on as that is where I pvp)... well we see cruiser gangs... lots of them.. we see drone ships.. we see battlecruisers... hell we even see frig gangs... we now have a healthy diversity of ships all flittering around melting face and crying buckets in local :) the way it should be. Could we have had that with your suggested method of buffing? Sure but we end up like WOW where there is just bigger and bigger numbers flying but little balance (last i checked years ago). Avoiding power creep is a VERY VERY VERY VERY good strategy when it comes to balance. And CCP is on the correct track.. and pvp is much more fun now that you dont just see hurricanes frakking everywhere!
Shereza Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 72	Posted - 2013.05.07 07:27:00 - [39] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: Most of you are missing my point. I never said kiting AC ships were not OP. I never said there wasn't a need for balancing. I said, in order to balance the ships they should improve others rather than nerf. That's not a reasonable suggestion. EVE Online has approximately 144 sub-cap T1/T2 ships (read that as non-civilian), another 16 or so pirate ships, and another 20 or so navy ships for roughly 180 sub-cap combat ships in total. Buffing all of them, or even anything more than a very small percentage of them, would require more work and more testing than nerfing a single ship would. That in turn could easily chain react into needing to buff more ships and put them through another round of balance testing as well. By the same token if all the other ships in a given class perform within given parameters, and these parameters are ones set forth by CCP and classified as desirable, then it's reasonable to presume that they're not broken, the ship they're going to nerf is. In this situation the old saw "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes into play. I sincerely doubt anyone is missing your point so much as dismissing your point due to how that philosophy is not part of good game design.
Bertrand Butler Cras es Noster 3	Posted - 2013.05.07 08:46:00 - [40] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: Most of you are missing my point. I never said kiting AC ships were not OP. I never said there wasn't a need for balancing. I said, in order to balance the ships they should improve others rather than nerf. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibi8iHMqjFs

Leeloo Vacarian Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.07 12:41:00 - [41] - Quote Hey Pilots, even though I know you will insult me now, but honestly... for me EvE is just about fun and epicness. I dont fly ships because they are OP or simply the optimal solution for a certain task, I fly them because I can relate to them. I do know that it would make me an easy bait in PvP as I dont allways use the optimal configuration for a ship regarding its bonuses but otherwise it males me pretty unpredictable. And nothing is feared more then something totaly unpredictable. I dont want a hangar full of ships I dont like but serve the porpose. I never would fly Minmatar ships. Not because I have not the right skills or the ships got nerfed, but I am Amarr and for the Empress sake, I would never fly in a Slave Pod I would love to see pilots follow their hears, not the stats. So... but some LAZOORS on the Raven
Shereza Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 72	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:19:00 - [42] - Quote Leeloo Vacarian wrote: So... but some LAZOORS on the Raven I think that the typhoon's better for lasers... [Typhoon, Tachyphoon] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II 100MN Afterburner II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas EM Ward Field Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Light Missile Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Garde II x4 Hobgoblin II x5
Naomi Knight Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 371	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:32:00 - [43] - Quote Shereza wrote: Leeloo Vacarian wrote: So... but some LAZOORS on the Raven I think that the typhoon's better for lasers... [Typhoon, Tachyphoon] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II 100MN Afterburner II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas EM Ward Field Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Light Missile Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Garde II x4 Hobgoblin II x5 you are doing it all wrong different crystal for each laser or how do you make rainbows?:O
Noisrevbus 441	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:43:00 - [44] - Quote Lady Naween wrote: They answered this many times. to avoid power creep. Lol . Nothing against you mate, or your reasons for putting it like that. I understand what you meant when putting it out there. It's just funny seeing the comment given recent events since power creep seems to be the new mantra. Almost every recent change has been a power creep (let's make better HACs than HACs, let's make AF better and then Frigs better than AF so we need to creep AF again and let's round that off with Cruisers and BC. To answer the OP: it's irrelevant wether the nerf or buff things, it's two sides of the same coin and it's only the blind hawing cattle that would make a distinction between the two claiming it strains your psyche more to see your darlings nerfed than it's peers buffed. The reason anyone should either nerf or buff should be balancing out intolerable disparities and using the most effective method to do so given the situation or context.
Dyphorus VC Academy 10	Posted - 2013.05.08 19:58:00 - [45] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: Most of you are missing my point. I never said kiting AC ships were not OP. I never said there wasn't a need for balancing. I said, in order to balance the ships they should improve others rather than nerf. Not that anyone is paying attention to this post anymore. But stupid comments like the one posted by Lallante are not productive. So people like me are the problem with games? what because you lose to them? My KB isn't even all that good. I like good fights and don't rely on ganking. I lose ships all the time because I enjoy pvp and don't really care. Yes I may have exaggerated the potential impact of the TE nerf on some ships but I still dislike the idea of making ships worse just cause they are too good at killing. How about make the ships losing all the time better instead. There are many ways of doing that but instead of offering good ideas, many people just cried like babies. "Whaaa Whaaa, I die to AC ships, they need to be nerfed." Instead of trying to belittle me for trying to think of ways to make ships better able to fight kiting ships, how about you offer new ideas. Yes everyone gets what you're saying. Yes it's been rebutted properly several times. The answer is power creep. If you keep buffing everything, you end up with mudflation and even greater imbalance. As you don't seem to get what people are saying, here's a simple example. CCP does as you say and buffs EVERYTHING else up rather than nerfing ONE thing that is broken. Yay, no one is sad because their favorite toy ate a nerf. Then you see how it effects the rest of the meta. Oh look, we buffed all BC's to bring them up to the Hurricane level. Then next week, oh but now the Harby is a bit over powered, so we'll bring everything up to that level. A series of across the board buffs later and BC's are now approaching BS class performance while being miles above that of cruisers. So, under your philosophy every ship class get's buffed to bring them back up into performance. Now, since you've just buffed 100 different things, something is bound to be out of balance and you start all over again.... Starting to get the point? If ONE thing is overly strong, you bring ONE thing down. You do not bring everything else up to it. And before you reply 'but minmi keep getting nerfed over and over'.... It was necessary. The term Winmitar was coined for a reason. Rusty buckets were OP for a very long time. Yes the nerf's hurt when you're use to flying ships that strong, they were always my primary as well. It's for the good of the game. Deal with it.
Ginger Barbarella Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1302	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:15:00 - [46] - Quote There's a basic fundamental to the CCP thinking here: if too many people use something, it must be broken. After all, we're all EASY BUTTON gamers, and having to actually THINK to use stuff is just plain wrong. Vaga? Broken. Tengu? Broken. Heavies? Broken (well, sorta... still people saying it was a nerf, but whatever). Hybrids were truly broken, so they fixed 'em; and still people complain about them being broken. Play your own game. Don't waste time on the flavor of the day, or the ravings of "lolbadfit" from Battleclinic or these forums. Just fly what you want to fly, and screw those purists who DEMAND you fit one particular way (ie, all the Gnosis haters raving lately). "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Haulie Berry 606	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:40:00 - [47] - Quote Fornic McKraken wrote: It seems CCP has the wrong idea of how to balance ships. When a ship or style of fighting becomes OP, they need to improve other ships and styles rather than make the ships everyone loves to fly (cough cough... Hurricane) worse. If many pilots are flying a ship because it is successful, why nerf it? Yeah, guys. Why fix the one outlier, when instead they could fix EVERYTHING else to match the outlier? That obviously makes more sense.
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 145	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:43:00 - [48] - Quote cause everyone wants to be a hipster
Shereza Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 72	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:06:00 - [49] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: cause everyone wants to be a hipster Hey, who wouldn't want to be a cute little hipster? http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/Marikhen/Hipsters.jpg


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