What gives CCP?!!!

Ice has more than doubled in the past week.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

not sure if troll or doesn't read dev blogs....

About 5% of the Eve Population knows the game even has forums. About 2% of them bother to read them or the dev blogs.

The OP is obviously not in the second group. I'd do a Venn Diagram, but frankly I can't be bothered.


(These statistics based on the number of shocked rage threads that precede and follow every expansion. YMMV, YRMD, No warranty express or implied)

About 5% of the Eve Population knows the game even has forums. About 2% of them bother to read them or the dev blogs.

The OP is obviously not in the second group. I'd do a Venn Diagram, but frankly I can't be bothered.


(These statistics based on the number of shocked rage threads that precede and follow every expansion. YMMV, YRMD, No warranty express or implied)

Buy a Retriever and get mining ganked.

FYP.

jump in a mining ship and get too it!

its just market speculation atm... prices will go down but end up being 20% more then they should be due to bottleneck.

What gives CCP?!!!

Ice has more than doubled in the past week.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

What gives CCP?!!!

Ice has more than doubled in the past week.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

i'm convinced miner gankers are like the boogie man.

i've never seen one.
it's a story to scare small children.

I actually thought that Ice was on the low side in my region, was down to 95k a unit a few weeks ago, only upto 150k a unit atm, its still WAY too low for my liking :)

So get out there and mine some?

Malc,

While you are here, can I ask you to look into why CCP decided to do a restriction on the ice minable in high sec for Odyssey?

Who thought there was too much ice? That ice was too cheap?

Tin foil hat says they are retaliating for the threadnaught and being forced to work on the bad code, making sure POSes truly are a small portion of the community.

I figure it's more the usual CCP way of shooting themselves in the foot while looking to the stars, but that's what the CSM is supposed to help with.

What gives CCP?!!!

Ice has more than doubled in the past week.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

War on 'Bots. Changes in the mechanic will not significantly reduce supply - prices will rise, but not outrageously. But 'Bots are in for one helluva bad time. Multi-boxers should be able to cope, but the need to find new spawns of ice will mess with the 'Bots fiercely.

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.

As a 3 year asteroid and Ice Miner, I approve of every single change for Odysssey.

Brilliant move on CCP's part.

Also, enjoying all the tears.

War on 'Bots. Changes in the mechanic will not significantly reduce supply - prices will rise, but not outrageously. But 'Bots are in for one helluva bad time. Multi-boxers should be able to cope, but the need to find new spawns of ice will mess with the 'Bots fiercely.

The Bots will actually have the easiest time adapting. Because they can wait. Undock, wait for the scan, scrape the screen for the belt. Not there? Dock, wait, undock and repeat. When the spawn shows up, log in the fleet and go mine. Players will not tolerate that level of boredom. A bot does not get bored.

But CCP can see that sort of behavior, so expect more dead bots.

A little market manipulation too cool the economy a bit, I suppose. Manufacturing is getting a buff; need to offset a bit.
Maybe.

Not only is it visible, but it cuts production drastically. 'Bots are ISK/Hr beasts - If they spend, say, three hours scanning for an Anom, that's a serious hit.

War on 'Bots. Changes in the mechanic will not significantly reduce supply - prices will rise, but not outrageously. But 'Bots are in for one helluva bad time. Multi-boxers should be able to cope, but the need to find new spawns of ice will mess with the 'Bots fiercely.

What gives CCP?!!!

Ice has more than doubled in the past week.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

While you are here, can I ask you to look into why CCP decided to do a restriction on the ice minable in high sec for Odyssey?

Who thought there was too much ice? That ice was too cheap?

i'm convinced miner gankers are like the boogie man.

i've never seen one.
it's a story to scare small children.

...and that bots are going to be fuckered up by this change...

It depends on where you mine. I gank miners with some regularity (when they can be caught) in wormholes and null:

http://killboard.tdsin.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4329
http://killboard.tdsin.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=4363 (this was a giant "oops" on one guy's part)
http://killboard.tdsin.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4437
http://killboard.tdsin.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4629

Of course, I'll gank anything else I get my hands on too. I don't ruin my sec status too badly by ganking in low or high sec, but that may change come the Odyssey expansion where I'll be able to buy my way out of it (assuming the tags are easy enough to come by).

I think better questions would be, "Who DIDN'T think there was too much ice? Who DIDN'T think that ice was too cheap?"

It will be a drastically shorter list.

well it's cool to be smart AFTER ALL HAPPENED.

Link any thread with people speaking "there is too much ICE in Eve Online" please. I've never seen such. Would be interesting.

Okay, seriously, why the **** do you people believe this?

yeah, null sec kills don't really count for what i was referring to.

pretty much every thread that combines "afk" "mining" and "bots" any 2 of the 3 will do.

Hence "bots are going to be fuckered up by this change"

The way scan results are displayed will probably change as well, which means even more programming to be done.

so. any link?

PS: i don't care about bots or afk. i just want to see bolded part

so. any link?

PS: i don't care about bots or afk. i just want to see bolded part

A lazy sunday afternoon's coding - and I'm being pessimistic about their programming chops, here - is not "fuckered up". That's idiotic.

Unlikely. Bots give zero fucks about the way the UI displays anything. Unless they changed the format of the scan result raw data, they won't even notice.

Who thought there was too much ice? That ice was too cheap?

What gives CCP?!!!

Ice has more than doubled in the past week.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

so. any link?

PS: i don't care about bots or afk. i just want to see bolded part

Never stop being mad.

i'm convinced miner gankers are like the boogie man.

i've never seen one.
it's a story to scare small children.

This. They're the Reavers of New Eden.

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.

You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.

Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec?

It would be EXTREMELY difficult, if not impossible, to devise gameplay mechanics that would be difficult to bot .

You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.

You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.

Show me a bot in incursions... I've seen a few ISBOXERs do it but they lose 90% of the competitions when we decide to bother with them ( TBH if we found out a bot could do NMC's we'd probably let them so more NCO's & OTA's spawned )

Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec?

I would be surprised if they don't exist, but I'm not sure the isk:effort ratio is there or, more importantly, the dollar:effort ratio. At a glance it might seem like it would be vastly more lucrative than a mining bot, but mining pretty much scales infinitely. If the suggestion is that they're simply too "difficult" or "complicated" to bot, I assure you that's a preposterous notion.

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.

WOW thanks some real stats can I nick name you CCP Diagoras junior

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.

Oh that would be bad. How about just calling him Fozzie?

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.

so only an 18.4% reduction? i do believe speculation is the reason for the price hike then

so only an 18.4% reduction? i do believe speculation is the reason for the price hike then

Oh that would be bad. How about just calling him Fozzie?

Let's interdict ALL the ice. We'll have null sec on their knees begging us for an isotope or two ... muahahahaa

That would force NULL SEC to suffer the indignity of actually having to ice mine there Imagine the delicious tears

so only an 18.4% reduction? i do believe speculation is the reason for the price hike then

That would force NULL SEC to suffer the indignity of actually having to ice mine there Imagine the delicious tears

...there will be ice mining bots still...

About a year ago CCP Soundwave openly was talking about making Ice Nullsec only. I'm kinda disappointed that this seems to have been compromised down to "Ice will be a bit scarce if people don't mine a little bit in Null." But then again, we haven't seen how this change will affect things.

Hey, who knows, maybe Concord won't show up to Ice Anoms in highsec, or will be a bit delayed.

Here is the problem with ice mining bots post Odyssey; The bots won't be able to make consistent isk/hr non-stop. That is why you would run a bot, because a bot can play eve constantly, and one expects the bot to make isk constantly.

What is the point of running a bot that is going to sit in a station and make no isk for hours at a time, only undocking to verify the ice anom hasn't respawned yet. And this bot will have to compete with other players because the ice anoms aren't going to be effectively limitless like current ice belts. So you can't just calculate that your bot will mine exactly X ice/hr, because even if human players aren't spamming the scan button to jump into an ice anom as soon as it spawns, players will eventually show up and take some ice for them selves.

I don't know if that is how its going to be. I mean think about it. Would you sit around waiting several hours for a resource to spawn?

I would go do something else. But I'm not a bot.

If actual players in highsec are doing nothing while waiting for ice anoms, then they are as dumb as a bot. They can go mine ore, or do missions, or do some hauling, or play the markets, or do some planetary interaction. It is their choice to paint themselves into the a corner of "I mine ice and only ice".

Hey, who knows, maybe Concord won't show up to Ice Anoms in highsec, or will be a bit delayed. Find a bot -- deal with it yourself.

i'm convinced miner gankers are like the boogie man.

i've never seen one.
it's a story to scare small children.

Correct me if I'm wrong but all ice belts are in 0.5 and lower space, so Concord already is a bit delayed.

so only an 18.4% reduction? i do believe speculation is the reason for the price hike then

Therefore people will just quit the profession all together.

If enough people quit ice mining, the supply will shrink. When the supply shrinks, prices will go up and people will go out of there way to mine it again.

You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.

I would go do something else. But I'm not a bot.

If actual players in highsec are doing nothing while waiting for ice anoms, then they are as dumb as a bot. They can go mine ore, or do missions, or do some hauling, or play the markets, or do some planetary interaction. It is their choice to paint themselves into the a corner of "I mine ice and only ice".

The issue there being that while you are out doing something else, the belt will spawn and get mined out. You return....no belt. Unless you sit there and wait, or have some other way to know when the spawn will happen, you could easily miss it.

Ice miner chat channel anyone?

logic would dictate, as a miner, you would carry on mining ore until the ice belt respawned. or you'd be sensible and mine in a system with multiple ice anoms so you could do them one after another.

Or just the Foz...


eayyyyyyyy.

Do we have any confirmation on multiple ice anomalies? Or is this part of my suspicion as well, but no solid backing.

all systems that currently contain ice belts will have at least one instance of these new Ice Anomalies. Some systems, mostly those that currently contain two or three ice belts, will contain multiple instances of the Ice Anomalies.

The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.

Read the dev blog again, he says that enough ice is supposed to spawn in highsec to meet 80% of TOTAL demand. And he goes on to say that highsec should continue to be a significant "exporter of ice" with the changes, implying that highsec uses a fair amount less than 80% of total demand. All that capital fuel, jump bridge fuel, cynos, and nullsec PoS fuel add up!

(Sorry if someone addressed this but god I'm not reading this whole thread.)

as per the dev blog

Thanks for the confirmation. Now I know where to look. Hopefully people won't be trolls in the multiple ice anomaly fields and mine everything out but the last 1m3 so the belt won't respawn.

Someone is cornering the ice market and manipulating prices in Jita...

What gives CCP?!!!

Ice has more than doubled in the past week.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

What gives CCP?!!!

Ice has more than doubled in the past week.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

Thanks for the confirmation. Now I know where to look. Hopefully people won't be trolls in the multiple ice anomaly fields and mine everything out but the last 1m3 so the belt won't respawn.

Why, thank you for this wonderful idea. I shall cherish it for the next few months. :)

Won't work though: Anyone can scan them down (and the bots will be updated within hours after the expansion is live, if not earlier due to the test server), and thus anyone can rush in and take out that last 1m3. You wouldn't delay the respawn for more than a few minutes at most.

No, if you really want to get creative, what you do is fly in there with a bunch of NPC corp alts and bump anyone trying to mine that last 1m3. If you were careful, you could keep that 1m3 stuck in limbo for hours if not days, shutting down all ice production in that anom.

... Hmm...

Stoopidly obvious question. How is this balanced ?

Considering that this expansion has one of the biggest ever rebalancing initiatives in EvE's history, how could such a glaring oversight as this be allowed to move forward with nary a raised eyebrow ?

20% would provide a buffer, 30% a warm blanket. Anything past 40 is an error in judgement. 80% is just an outright abomination.

CCP Fozzie


Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.

Do we have any confirmation on multiple ice anomalies? Or is this part of my suspicion as well, but no solid backing.

and garpa tells me there are only 114 high sec systems to shut down...
but that might change due to the amarr systems changing.

The guys from ccp said during the industry roundtable that systems that currently have multiple ice belts will have multiple ice anoms post-patch.

And that in such systems one could possible mine ice constantly because the time it takes to mine out an anom would be enough that another could spawn by the time you finished the one you are in.

Doing it for hours would also fall under harrassment, especially if it actually worked to keep the site from respawning.

Do we have any confirmation on multiple ice anomalies? Or is this part of my suspicion as well, but no solid backing.

"we'll stop bumping you and let you mine this ice for a 10m isk permit".

sound familiar?

Its in the blog and some Dev comments. Systems with multiple belts could have multiple anoms. Note the Could. Not all will.

and garpa tells me there are only 114 high sec systems to shut down...
but that might change due to the amarr systems changing.

I wonder if the null ice anoms will be significantly larger (more ice) than the high sec ones.

If they want more ice mining in null, it would seem to make sense that the anoms will have more ice, so they can't be mined out in a couple hours, like it seems they expect the high sec ones to be.

Null sec and low sec ice will still be in static belts its only high sec that will be moved to anoms

When Odyssey is released, the current static (and massive) ice belts spread throughout space will be removed from the game,

Null sec and low sec ice will still be in static belts its only high sec that will be moved to anoms :)

The interesting part is how people freak out so much over this. Its an interesting dynamic but I dont think ice prices will stay where they are. It will settle down after Odyssey is released.

I wonder if the null ice anoms will be significantly larger (more ice) than the high sec ones.

If they want more ice mining in null, it would seem to make sense that the anoms will have more ice, so they can't be mined out in a couple hours, like it seems they expect the high sec ones to be.

Current ice belts have so much ice that it's virtually impossible to mine them out before they respawn.

Yeah... it is pretty much impossible to pop a single glacial rock, with 20-30 people shooting at it.

But, that is moot since the belts are going away, to be replaced with ice anoms.

It seems CCP expects the high sec anoms to be mined out in an hour or two, since they are figuring 4 respawns a day. I wonder how many miners they are assuming to pop it that quickly? 50-100-500?

Will the null anoms be larger? If a null corp puts together an ice of of 50 toons, are they too going to pop the anom in an hour or two, then have to wait 4 hours for respawn?

[quote=LHA Tarawa]
Null sec and low sec ice will still be in static belts its only high sec that will be moved to anoms :)

Remember that ice harvester cycle times will be 50% longer as well.

are you misinformed, or special?

fozzy confirmed there are 2.5k units of ice in an anom.

for it to take 4 hours to mine out an anom that's 5 mackinaws per ice anom.
have you ever seen an ice belt with only 4 mackinaws in it?

Thanks for demonstrating you can't read. He was asking if there would be systems with more than 1 ice anom. CCP says there will be. So in those cases, you could mine out an anom in less than 4 hours and be able to move on to another anom.


Personally, I'm loving this whole change. Excellent kick in the nuts for the idea of infinite resources. I hope they end up tuning it down beneath that 80% supply they are aiming for. Now, instead of us sticking it to complacent ice miners, ice miners will be screwing each other. It is like a perpetual tears machine.

not that you answered his question, so did you not read?

He asked if there would be more than 1 ice anom in a system. CCP said there would be multiple ice anoms in systems that currently have multiple ice belts.

They even hope that those systems would let ice miners hop from one anom to the next, but we'll see how that plays out.

listen for yourself;

https://soundcloud.com/javafanatic/eve-fanfest-2013-industry

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.

I've not seen it mentioned yet, but hisec spawns will have 2500 units of racial ice.

https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie/status/329251984098070528

You're assuming that more ice won't get mined in nullsec, and that none of the surplus ice production in nullsec will be traded.

But the HBC, for instance, can't mine its own Caldari ice. They'll have to trade. Likewise, the CFC will have to go to market for Minmatar and Amarr ice, and so on.

As soon as ice prices rise high enough to make it worth getting out a Mack instead of an anom farming ship, then it will happen.

And the Ice harvesting rate doubling is there to help make that happen at a somewhat lower unit cost of topes.

CCP should spoon feed ignorant people who don't read devblogs by sending them eve mails with the info, because this is just stupid

Let's all calm down.

Despite all of these changes, Mining Permits can still be purchased for 10 million isk from any New Order agent or James 315 himself. That's 1 year of bump free anom mining for 10 million isk!

Ask about our 2 permits for 20 mil and 10 permits for 100 mil specials! Buy one for a friend or your whole fleet.

I will admit.

I must thank all of you who bought my Caldari and Minmatar fuel blocks at stupidly high prices. My account is almost plexed into 2016 please continue to buy. I would love to have a free account all the way to EvEs 20th birthday.

People need to listen, ice will soon have its supply cut and mining income will soon be crap.

So everyone that owns a high-sec research POS should by there stocks now before prices go even higher.

Oh and of course I might like a few more plex

price of ice goes up, mining becomes crap...

yeah not sure that works, but ok.

The price of Ice is going up, and if you had not noticed high sec is about to lose a massive amount of sales, of ore to its largest customer.

The price of Ice is going up, and if you had not noticed high sec is about to lose a massive amount of sales, of ore to its largest customer.

People need to listen, ice will soon have its supply cut and mining income will soon be crap.

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.

Prices will double again, perhaps tripple when the patch hits.

Fun times.

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.

If by "massive" you mean "about 2-3%" yes, I suppose it is.

Must you sensationalise evrything? It really does damage the discourse.

What gives CCP?!!!

Ice has more than doubled in the past week.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

So you mean you believe Nulls demand for Trit alone does not make up more than 2-3%

And yes when I am trying to get my self more isk, scare mongering is good. Duh.

Well my point is... If you are doing something more profitable anyways, why bother checking every 20 minutes to see if that less profitable resource is available?

I mean the reason people don't ore mine instead of ice mine is because ice mining is easy and consistant even though regular mining was about 2-3 times more profitable (still is even after the price buff). So if you find yourself with no ice belt to mine and you are regular mining anyways, I doubt you are going to stop every 20 minutes to check to see if you can go back to ice mining.

Therefore people will just quit the profession all together.

You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.

No, I mean that null is going from producing >1% of the trit it needs to use up all the high ends produced, to producing 2-3% of the trit it needs to use up all the high ends it produces.

If hi-sec was exporting 10 billion units of trit a week, then after the patch it'll be exporting about 9.7 billion units a week.

Then maybe they need to be a more attractive locale for miners if you think you can only mine 2-3% of your needs.

Then maybe they need to be a more attractive locale for miners if you think you can only mine 2-3% of your needs.

Yes if you decide you can put up with the elitist pvp player attitudes.

who knows, attitude might change when they have to start asking "so who has any spare jump fuel?"

who knows, attitude might change when they have to start asking "so who has any spare jump fuel?"

0.0 has no ice

What gives CCP?!!!

Ice has more than doubled in the past week.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

even if it did.

who'd mine it? :P

Well I own a few carriers, so if no one else would, I would.

tl:dr

OP doesn't want to mine ice, or buy it.
complains about having to take down a pos because he doesn't want to fuel it.

i couldn't have less sympathy if i tried.

If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!

We should be able to sell highsec themeparkers tears, and use it to fuel ships.

Currently 98.4% of all isotope ice is mined in highsec.

While highsec uses less than 15% of the isotopes in EVE.