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Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:42:00 -
[181] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game.
Actually I find it kind of a dull read, it's the same old crap.
The first 2 posts in this thread sum up fairly well why people solo in MMOs.
Unfortunately MMO companies sometimes see this as a problem and try to get the solo group to mix in more with the rest of the community, which of course never works. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4072
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:51:00 -
[182] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I have played EvE since 2003. I think I have been in maybe 2 small gangs with Privateers and perhaps 5 large fleets with a null alliance in that time. It's not that I don't like people really, it's more that I feel crowded by more than just me in a gang or fleet :) ok it's probably the not liking people thing.
it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game. Oh and we just mine or run missions too.
Well let me just say I complained a little in the early EvE universe about CCP shafting soloers. Then I had some alliance dweeb get on the forums here and tell me if I didn't like alliances to fight back against them. He was being a smart ass as obviously what could a exclusively solo player do. But I took his advice and made Privateers. What did the alliances do about it? They WHINED SO LOUD CCP NERFED IT. You know why because when they come back to empire they want to solo haul, solo mission, solo travel.
And they couldn't handle solo small group pvp'rs blowing them up. So yes as a solo player I had a very large impact on EvE.
I did not know Privateers were born off like this. I appreciate your contribution to EvE! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Nerva Auris
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
14
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Posted - 2013.05.20 15:06:00 -
[183] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game. Oh and we just mine or run missions too.
Well let me just say I complained a little in the early EvE universe about CCP shafting soloers. Then I had some alliance dweeb get on the forums here and tell me if I didn't like alliances to fight back against them. He was being a smart ass as obviously what could a exclusively solo player do. But I took his advice and made Privateers. What did the alliances do about it? They WHINED SO LOUD CCP NERFED IT. You know why because when they come back to empire they want to solo haul, solo mission, solo travel.
And they couldn't handle solo small group pvp'rs blowing them up. So yes as a solo player I had a very large impact on EvE.
You should ask CCP to put those rose-tinted glasses in the NEX Store. |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
890
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:12:00 -
[184] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Eve is a multiplayer game but it's also a sandbox game, and one which reflects real world society quite closely. People choose to work on their own in the game just as people choose to work alone in the real world. I see no problem with that.
Excellent, short, clean and direct
Here, for you Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
7
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Posted - 2013.05.20 15:19:00 -
[185] - Quote
Nerva Auris wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game. Oh and we just mine or run missions too.
Well let me just say I complained a little in the early EvE universe about CCP shafting soloers. Then I had some alliance dweeb get on the forums here and tell me if I didn't like alliances to fight back against them. He was being a smart ass as obviously what could a exclusively solo player do. But I took his advice and made Privateers. What did the alliances do about it? They WHINED SO LOUD CCP NERFED IT. You know why because when they come back to empire they want to solo haul, solo mission, solo travel.
And they couldn't handle solo small group pvp'rs blowing them up. So yes as a solo player I had a very large impact on EvE.
You should ask CCP to put those rose-tinted glasses in the NEX Store. I'll do that for you. |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
639
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:00:00 -
[186] - Quote
There's lots of group content out there but because of current mechanics which limit player interaction, people will continue farming this content in the most efficient way possible. If you can get all of the rewards a group can by yourself, why would you bother grouping up and dealing with additional overhead?
Many players who prefer playing in a group are pigeonholed into playing solo (or quit) because they are required to in order to participate in group content. That's not how the game should work, in a sandbox game you should be able to make a living doing whatever you prefer doing, whether it's solo mining, group activities like Incursions, or ship combat with other players.
Whether it's through buffing existing group gameplay or creating new group gameplay and making solo gameplay comparatively worse off, or by making solo gameplay more risky or reducing the reward, ultimately solo play will be nerfed in order to bring it in line with the rest of the game.
It doesn't mean that solo gameplay should be destroyed completely or to get people to "play my way". It just needs to be tweaked to make the game more balanced for all styles of gameplay. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1871
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:22:00 -
[187] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:There's lots of group content out there but because of current mechanics which limit player interaction, people will continue farming this content in the most efficient way possible. If you can get all of the rewards a group can by yourself, why would you bother grouping up and dealing with additional overhead?
Many players who prefer playing in a group are pigeonholed into playing solo (or quit) because they are required to in order to participate in group content. That's not how the game should work, in a sandbox game you should be able to make a living doing whatever you prefer doing, whether it's solo mining, group activities like Incursions, or ship combat with other players.
Whether it's through buffing existing group gameplay or creating new group gameplay and making solo gameplay comparatively worse off, or by making solo gameplay more risky or reducing the reward, ultimately solo play will be nerfed in order to bring it in line with the rest of the game.
It doesn't mean that solo gameplay should be destroyed completely or to get people to "play my way". It just needs to be tweaked to make the game more balanced for all styles of gameplay.
Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content? The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
935
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:26:00 -
[188] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content?
No, he's describing the nerf to solo content that has already begun.
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Skeln Thargensen
Thargensen Plumbing Services
162
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:36:00 -
[189] - Quote
if by nerfing solo play you mean the bash X exploration games then I'm quite fine with that.
but if you touch my hound I will send torpedos. freelance space bum |
Adunh Slavy
816
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:47:00 -
[190] - Quote
CCP should stop worrying about "group content" frankly. Make tools groups can use, fix the group tools that exist (corp roles, poses, more POS sizes from stupid huge to personal size, etc). How about some new tools, like muti-player piloted ships, industrial ships that do something industrial besides haul stuff around, stocks, bonds, even player created currencies.
CCP should focus on "big goals" and then spread the resources and tasks to accomplish these goals far and wide over the map. Each of these resources and goals should require some amount of specialization. Groups will want to accomplish these goals and will team up on their own, or utilize, via the market, the skills and resources of others.
Big goals could be colonization (building gates as eluded to at fanfest), terraforming planets and moons, building low sec and high sec outposts. Vanity (Such as 'collect enough precious metals to make your null sec outpost shine like a mirror') People will do that kind of thing if it is available and gives enough "oooh ahhh" points to nerdy space geeks like our selves.
Goals matter. Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box. |
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Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
1
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Posted - 2013.05.20 17:54:00 -
[191] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:CCP should stop worrying about "group content" frankly. Make tools groups can use, fix the group tools that exist (corp roles, poses, more POS sizes from stupid huge to personal size, etc). How about some new tools, like muti-player piloted ships, industrial ships that do something industrial besides haul stuff around, stocks, bonds, even player created currencies.
CCP should focus on "big goals" and then spread the resources and tasks to accomplish these goals far and wide over the map. Each of these resources and goals should require some amount of specialization. Groups will want to accomplish these goals and will team up on their own, or utilize, via the market, the skills and resources of others.
Big goals could be colonization (building gates as eluded to at fanfest), terraforming planets and moons, building low sec and high sec outposts. Vanity (Such as 'collect enough precious metals to make your null sec outpost shine like a mirror') People will do that kind of thing if it is available and gives enough "oooh ahhh" points to nerdy space geeks like our selves.
Goals matter. Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.
Absolutely agree! |
Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:23:00 -
[192] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content? No, he's describing the nerf to solo content that has already begun.
Which is a mistake, but then it's a mistake a lot of MMO companies make. It's funny how games companies seem to learn from each other, mistakes as well. |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1098
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:33:00 -
[193] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content? I wouldn't worry about it too much. Literally hundreds of thousands of carebears will unsubscribe if CCP dare do anything to affect solo L4 play in high-sec or "bottoms-up" ISK generation in null-sec. CCP has no sense of humour. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
937
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:47:00 -
[194] - Quote
Six Six Six wrote:Which is a mistake, but then it's a mistake a lot of MMO companies make. It's funny how games companies seem to learn from each other, mistakes as well.
I am extremely curious as to what examples you think provide parallels to this situation. |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:15:00 -
[195] - Quote
It's not that people have a problem with solo players. Everyone is cool with that.
The problem is when solo players think that solo means "no one is allowed to interfere with me".
Then people tend to get a little bit testy. "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
639
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:30:00 -
[196] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box. The problem is that there are already pre-determined game mechanics that prevent players from fully interacting with other players, which helps out solo players against all other players and is against the sandbox mentality. Most agree that removing the mechanics completely is not a good idea. Tweaks here and there are needed to balance the current situation, just like anything else. |
Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:33:00 -
[197] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Six Six Six wrote:Which is a mistake, but then it's a mistake a lot of MMO companies make. It's funny how games companies seem to learn from each other, mistakes as well. I am extremely curious as to what examples you think provide parallels to this situation.
There's other MMOs that have tried exactly the same sort of thing, namely altering game content or just adding content that can't be soloed. Result of course is those that do solo eventually just leave. There are a lot of people that solo in MMOs and the mistake is in not recognising those players. GW2 being the latest one, originally it was supposed to be solo able, but more and more they're altering it with group material, it's basically now following the WoW pattern.
Now the question is how far does CCP intend to take it?
Are they trying to force people into player participation? If so that's likely to fail.
Storyline and side games (mini games) content would be one my concerns as that seems to suggest a move more towards a theme park rather than a sandbox.
Talking of sandboxes, trying to force people to participate with others in the game directly is not sandboxish.
Although I think trying to force people to group is a mistake, my main concern at this time is of this game slowly turning into a just another theme park. |
Noc Norris
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:37:00 -
[198] - Quote
I been playing solo for awhile at times not by choice but by situations in RL,
I log on all sorts of times during the night or day so 1. I don"t have a preferred time zone. 2. my kids have sports summer activities after school activities... I am retired so I try to make in almost every day at least just to say hi worst case scenario.
But a specific corp or alliance has so many activities, roams that take hours to just patrol and kill a few to none frigates. so I try not to disrespect them by just logging on and not joining their fleets. as I wish I could find a friendly corp that I can log on do roams and have fun pve and pvp wise be part of the eve life if not to just get out of my RL and enjoy it with friends on comms.
So I stay to myself try incursions,or do a lot of level 4 missions or just log in chat skills up and log off. I do wish I can play with friends but until then its solo life for me and funny how some might not solo pilots but alas we have no choice. I've done the mothership for over a year thing, the alliance for few years in 0.0 space the pvp stuff now I just want to chill and have fun without being told I have to do this or that or be on at a certain time or get a credit check before I can log on comms.
My main is closing in on 100 mil sp all mainly 99% combat and I find solo play relaxing at times without the bs of other players or politics and I wish all solo'ers a salute and fly safe. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
938
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:49:00 -
[199] - Quote
Six Six Six wrote:GW2 being the latest one, originally it was supposed to be solo able, but more and more they're altering it with group material, it's basically now following the WoW pattern.
So GW2 is your only example? Can you provide anything suggesting some link between tangible increases in the ratio of solo to non-solo content and a decline in subscriptions, activity, projected growth or anything of the sort?
So far this is all sounding like you pulled it completely from your butt. You made a pretty bold and specific statement, I'd like to see even a shred of support. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that so far you might have as well claimed that sasquatches are really an ancient race of martian refugees. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
619
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:00:00 -
[200] - Quote
Sebastian N Cain wrote:It's not that people have a problem with solo players. Everyone is cool with that.
The problem is when solo players think that solo means "no one is allowed to interfere with me".
Then people tend to get a little bit testy.
I agree 100% with this. The more creative solo player will adopt a more active attitude such as:
"Hmmm... EVE is a big game with lots of choices... there's 100 different ways I can mess with you and make you poor, cry or **** blood. Which method will give me the most amusement value today ?"
Nothing wrong with solo players. Just some of them need to realize they aren't alone in "the world".
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
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Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:52:00 -
[201] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Six Six Six wrote:GW2 being the latest one, originally it was supposed to be solo able, but more and more they're altering it with group material, it's basically now following the WoW pattern. So GW2 is your only example? Can you provide anything suggesting some link between tangible increases in the ratio of solo to non-solo content and a decline in subscriptions, activity, projected growth or anything of the sort? So far this is all sounding like you pulled it completely from your butt. You made a pretty bold and specific statement, I'd like to see even a shred of support. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that so far you might have as well claimed that sasquatches are really an ancient race of martian refugees.
I've played GW2, I take it you haven't. I know what they promised at the beginning and they didn't keep to their promise, a lot of the new content is for guilds (5 or more people iirc) silly retro side games and a living story which seems to be mainly about collecting achievement points.
Played 10 other MMOs and some of those did similar things at least where group content was concerned.
Before posting what you replied to I already checked your previous posts in this thread to see where you stood and on this we're at opposite ends of the argument. So I'm not going to waste my time getting the information you want. If you really want that information then I'm sure you could find it. But then again what figures will a game's company release in terms of membership, those playing, active accounts or just number of accounts. But in the last two months of playing there was a noticeable drop in players on the server I was on.
Although solo content is not that much of a concern to me personally where this game is concerned I still think a move to try and force people to group is a big mistake.
Like I said though my main concern is this game possibly just becoming another theme park.
Edit: see the forums still eat the posts, just as well I save everything. |
Adunh Slavy
823
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:33:00 -
[202] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote: Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.
The problem is that there are already pre-determined game mechanics that prevent players from fully interacting with other players, which helps out solo players against all other players and is against the sandbox mentality. Most agree that removing the mechanics completely is not a good idea. Tweaks here and there are needed to balance the current situation, just like anything else.
Like what? What can a solo player do on Eve, that can't be joined in cooperation with another, or interrupted by another? Ship spin? Stare at the walls in the CQ? Ok, I'll have to give you those. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 23:04:00 -
[203] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:I don't have the playtime to be in a corp. I refuse to burden others with my lack of attention to the game. By the same token, when I finally do get in game, I want to do what I want, not get roped into something else. Corps are awesome if you have the time and motivation to participate though. Solo Eve simply suits my lifestyle. This is a really common misconception about player corps. My corp asks me to do...exactly nothing. Zilch, nada. I do as I please, if I see someone needs help (need boosts for some mining or ratting fleet, needs a cyno etc etc) I do it, IF I want to. There are LOTS or player corps like mine, in fact mine is more likely the model for an EVE corp than the draconian "control everything you do" type corps. "Soloing" isn't a bad thing, but making silly excuses for not being in a player corp (instead of just saying "i don't like being bothered by other people) is kind of a bad thing. No one cares why you don't do something, do as you please.
I agree with this in full. I work 40 hours a week and still I find enough time not only to play Eve, but even to run a small corporation. Granted, at times it's a struggle for survival against many hostile groups with more ISK, more time and more manpower. But to me that's also the charm of the game. By grouping up with an Alliance we have more fleets to join, and more people to group up and do whatever the hell we feel like doing at that time. Basicly I log in, determine what I want to do, and join a fleet or head out solo. Most things expected of me as CEO don't take a huge percentage of my playtime. I bet I could run a small Alliance and still find the time to make babies. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
940
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 00:12:00 -
[204] - Quote
Six Six Six wrote:I've played GW2, I take it you haven't...blah blah blah
Ok, so you're utterly full of ****.
NP, happens to the best of us.
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Ranzabar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 01:04:00 -
[205] - Quote
No date this weekend? Just go solo. That's what I do. Abide |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
81
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 02:03:00 -
[206] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:EI Digin wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote: Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.
The problem is that there are already pre-determined game mechanics that prevent players from fully interacting with other players, which helps out solo players against all other players and is against the sandbox mentality. Most agree that removing the mechanics completely is not a good idea. Tweaks here and there are needed to balance the current situation, just like anything else. Like what? What can a solo player do on Eve, that can't be joined in cooperation with another, or interrupted by another? Ship spin? Stare at the walls in the CQ? Ok, I'll have to give you those. Log in, set skill queue, log out. |
Tiberius Amzadee
The Night Stalker Syndicate
103
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 04:23:00 -
[207] - Quote
Log in, set skill queue,whine on forums, log out.-Fixed it. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
9
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Posted - 2013.05.21 04:33:00 -
[208] - Quote
I think rather than tightening up mechanics to force group play relaxing the mechanics in regards to solo play would have a more positive effect for everyone. ,
The only real solo viable gameplay is care-bear play. L4's, mining and trading. Solo PvP is possible but it's risk reward balance is extreme in the negative.
This game is a PvP game, that's it's core function. I don't think anyone would complain if there was more small group or solo PvP available, even solo PvP is not really solo, you're interacting.
With the introduction of anti-solo PvP mechanics (remote assist modules, gang only leadership buffs) it's really not worthwhile taking on a small gang solo. If I'm up against 2 players vs myself I'm already at a big disadvantage without having to worry about them magically getting more EHP, faster cap, faster lock, etc from leadership as well as remote reps, transferring cap etc etc.
It's really absurd logic that a force multiplier is given to the force with the most ships. They already have the numbers advantage.
What's my point? People who don't want to group with others might at least want to fight others which is not solo but the mechanics don't really allow this. And the only other solo options are quitting, care bear pure solo vs npc L4, or trading or mining. None of which are interacting with other players.
Fix the bizarre magical mechanics favouring numbers and you may find less pure solo and more small gang / solo PvP. |
Mik Nostrebor
Thirtyplus Spaceship Samurai
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 05:34:00 -
[209] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:I...
The other major thing is that they feel solo players don't bring any emergent gameplay to the sandbox, so they don't contribute anything to the game.
...
Um, I do not pay money for a game so that I can bring you anything. If you want me to bring you anything (emergent game play or whatnot) then you should pay me for it. The arrogance of players who decide other players should revolve around them! Emergent gameplay is a nice side effect of Eve's model, but it is not the duty of each player to contribute to it!
If you want this then you go ahead and add it to the game with others of a similar mindset. This is a sandbox (that I pay for as much as you do) and I should be able to play in it however I wish.
Note, that I am not a full time solo player at all, I am just making a point about people who expect other players to play like them.
M
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Saira Rasielle
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:12:00 -
[210] - Quote
Honestly, i just suck at this game. PVP seems an impenetrable tangled mass of ideas where i can't even find the loose end of one thread.
Industry... again, i just don't know where to start.
My point for posting at all is because I really want to do things in this game. But I've been unlucky in my attempts to learn and in the people i seek guidance from.
TL;DR I've had a rough time and I just want to get involved in something more than 'Lets blow stuff up just to get a highscore'. I could play galaga for that. I've been at this game for 3 years+ and have yet to truly get into it.
But i still want to. I'm still Trying. |
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