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Davis TetrisKing
Turtle Enterprises
15
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Recently I've noticed a bit more emphasis on the forums about players who play eve 'solo'. From my impression from the forums people tend to dislike soloers (I've read 'eve is a multiplayer game, go back to...' quite a few times lately) so I'm interested to get a bit of a feedback as to what people do and don't like about soloers or solo activities in the game.
*Skip to below for tl;dr*
I'll start off by saying that I definitely have a vested interest in the topic. I am what I think most people would consider a solo player in eve. I pretty rarely group up with other people to accomplish things and having recently moved out to low sec spend most of my time running sites, ratting and generally managing PI on my own.
To me this doesn't mean I have no interaction with other players. I'm not playing a single player game. I'm duking it out on my own in a world full of other pilots that might be able to help me, that I might be able to benefit from or (more likely) are out to get me if I give them a chance. This makes my 'solo' experience far more exciting than anything any single player game could ever give me.
I'm a bit too much of a risk averse carebear at the moment to really get into PvP, but I love the excitement of getting chased around lowsec trying to dodge pirates etc. The way I'm on edge when hauling stuff the few jumps back to high sec. I love raiding WHs knowing that there's a good chance I could die to another enterprising pilot who knows their dscan well enough to drop probes right on me and land on me before I know whats going on. To me the 'solo' experience is so much enriched by the fact that other people are out there.
*tl;dr*
I understand that 'eve is a multiplayer game', and the best way to thrive is to join forces with others. But I like that even if it might not be the 'best' way to go, I can carve out my own piece of eve on my own if I want in a world that is affected by others.
So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo? |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
736
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Eve is a multiplayer game but it's also a sandbox game, and one which reflects real world society quite closely. People choose to work on their own in the game just as people choose to work alone in the real world. I see no problem with that. Oh god. |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
151
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's not so much the solo gameplay that people dislike, it's the mindset that people generally get from playing solo. I do a lot of solo activities in game as my time permits, but I also involve myself in the community. I would say that the vast majority of solo players are the miners and industrialists out there and they tend to complain about being killed by gankers and use the 'highsec should be safe argument'.
The other major thing is that they feel solo players don't bring any emergent gameplay to the sandbox, so they don't contribute anything to the game.
That and some people just like to hate on other peoples gameplay styles just because it isn't their own. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
484
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:
*tl;dr*
I understand that 'eve is a multiplayer game', and the best way to thrive is to join forces with others. But I like that even if it might not be the 'best' way to go, I can carve out my own piece of eve on my own if I want in a world that is affected by others.
So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?
I mainly play solo, and and accept the drawbacks.
I don't feel that the non-solo crowd is that hostile, it's more of solo players complaining that they get shafted, in a multi-player game.
So if you want to play solo, then play solo accept the fact that you are playing solo in a multi-player game, and for some of us, quit moaning about it. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2432
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:
I understand that 'eve is a multiplayer game', and the best way to thrive is to join forces with others. But I like that even if it might not be the 'best' way to go, I can carve out my own piece of eve on my own if I want in a world that is affected by others.
So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?
I have no objections whatsoever to people playing solo. It's a viable, if somewhat limiting, play style. I have characters that run solo as well as corp characters and I have equal amounts of fun with either one.
Sandbox right? Play the way you like.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
151
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote: So if you want to play solo, then play solo accept the fact that you are playing solo in a multi-player game, and for some of us, quit moaning about it.
That's pretty much the crux of the matter. People don't care about solo players until they complain and unfortunately when they complain they then to do so in a whiny manner that doesn't gel well with Eve's core player base.
Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2347
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't have an issue with solo play per se...
What pisses me off is when solo players expect to be competitive with groups of players and/or feel that they deserve special consideration/mechanics/ships over others who put the effort into dealing with other mouth breathers (which is no small feat).
People always seem to forget that groups like TEST and Goons are composed of "solo players" who have simply decided to pool their individual resources with that of others. Anything done to aid a "true solo player" will always be to the greater advantage of those willing to work together. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Davis TetrisKing
Turtle Enterprises
15
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Makes sense. Must just be all the election/fanfest/Odyssey change speculation has brought out a few complainers.
Looking forward to new exploration stuff... whatever it ends up actually being. |
Erik Dalvon
Dalvon's Drones
0
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
dark heartt wrote: I would say that the vast majority of solo players are the miners and industrialists out there and they tend to complain about being killed by gankers and use the 'highsec should be safe argument'.
Though still a newcomer to the game, I currently have very similar attitudes to the game as the OP (if less ambitious, from lack of skills and money). So, I want to have to worry about other players ganking me, but just at the moment I'm not after joining a corporation.
On the quote - if anything, I'd like Hi-Sec to be a little less safe for me, to make it more interesting. This should not a game for people who want safe by default, though "pretty much safe with continuous care and attention in Hi-Sec" is nice. The step down in security from Hi-Sec to Low-Sec in terms of safety feels too great at the moment.
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dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
151
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
You will do well in Eve with that mindset.
There was a time when highsec was a lot less safe and I miss those times. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
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Jarod Garamonde
Action Bastards
74
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
I enjoy fleet ops as much as the next guy, but there's something to be said for taking some time to yourself. Solo PvP can be quite satisfying, actually. So far, I've got 18 solo kills under my belt, and I'd like to have a lot more in the future. PvE can be tedious and mind-numbing, especially when you're on your own, but many times, it's worth the grind if you do it right.
I don't understand players who completely avoid the social aspect of the game, though. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
736
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Erik Dalvon wrote: The step down in security from Hi-Sec to Low-Sec in terms of safety feels too great at the moment. Some parts of lowsec are extremely quiet. I know one area where you can make about 10 jumps without seeing another player, so the safety issue just depends on how far you're willing to explore to find somewhere you feel comfortable. Oh god. |
Lost True
Paradise project
2164
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1
As much as i like that there is a lot of real people that i can interact with. I'd like to do things on my own - when and how i want, maybe sometimes with a others i'm in a mood for it, and leave them if they'll happen to be some unenteresting chodes. in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much? [-á-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦] -£-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦ -¦-+-Ç-+-+-Ç-¦-å-+-Å Transtellar |
Xavier Quo
Ashfell Celestial Corporation POD-SQUAD
49
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Me too. Solo exploration, avoid pirates, interacting with random people on your journey, that is what eve is for me.
I think sometimes CCP doesn't get that for a lot of people it's a time thing. Sometimes I can only play for an hour or two a week due to work and RL interests. Waiting around for fleets etc is simply not an option for me 90% of the time and I'm guessing for a lot of others as well.
Incentivising group play simply won't work on me, no matter how big the incentive, and making it obvious that you are losing out for being solo in certain situations is a huge mistake in game design. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
7913
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Main objective, do what I find interesting and appealing.
/c
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3341
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Some parts of lowsec are extremely quiet. I know one area where you can make about 10 jumps without seeing another player, so the safety issue just depends on how far you're willing to explore to find somewhere you feel comfortable.
That's great for people who are already exploring lowsec. Pity about the people whose only experience with lowsec is picking the wrong gates at the wrong times, arriving to find a gatecamp or a titan smartbombing the gate.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Davis TetrisKing
Turtle Enterprises
17
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Xavier Quo wrote:Me too. Solo exploration, avoid pirates, interacting with random people on your journey, that is what eve is for me.
I think sometimes CCP doesn't get that for a lot of people it's a time thing. Sometimes I can only play for an hour or two a week due to work and RL interests. Waiting around for fleets etc is simply not an option for me 90% of the time and I'm guessing for a lot of others as well.
Incentivising group play simply won't work on me, no matter how big the incentive, and making it obvious that you are losing out for being solo in certain situations is a huge mistake in game design.
Yeah the bit about time management is a big one for me. I have pretty sporadic playing times depending on what's going on in life. One week I'll be on every night for 4-5 hours, then I might be away for a week, or only on 4 or 5 times in a month if I'm away for work etc. so I found it hard in the past to stay active in corps. The part of eve that makes it hard to trust people too much makes the stereotypical MMO 'PUG' pretty much a non-option, but I'm ok with all of that, it's part of the charm of eve.
I'm more than happy for CCP to 'incentivise' group play, but yeah when its made really obvious that you're losing out because you're solo it doesn't feel great. The new *not being able to loot all the cans from hacking* seems a bit like a dangling candy in front of a baby and then snatching it away, but I spose I'll work with what CCP give me, as long as I get at least some of the candy. |
Davis TetrisKing
Turtle Enterprises
17
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Some parts of lowsec are extremely quiet. I know one area where you can make about 10 jumps without seeing another player, so the safety issue just depends on how far you're willing to explore to find somewhere you feel comfortable. That's great for people who are already exploring lowsec. Pity about the people whose only experience with lowsec is picking the wrong gates at the wrong times, arriving to find a gatecamp or a titan smartbombing the gate.
Haha, still remember years ago my first trip to Ammamake (somewhat notorious low sec system in Minmatar space). I had just bought myself a shiny new Ferox (lololol fail ship etc, at the time I thought it was the coolest thing ever) and thought I might just duck into Ammamake to pick up a skill book instead of taking a few more jumps to a safer place. Ship didn't last long at all to the gatecamp on the other side. Good learning experience and for the next while I didn't go into low in anything bigger than a frigate.
I was lucky though and not long after had a few good people in a corp I joined run me through how to survive flying around in low sec, using dscan and making safe spots/undocks etc. That's one of the areas where you lose out on when flying solo, there's so much other players can teach you. |
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra Gallente Federation
59
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Posted - 2013.05.01 07:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
I solo to earn isk, but I will band together with others to have fun doing pvp or helping others do some pve. Not possible to avoid solo play completely. And your really missing out if you only do solo. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1184
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Unfortunately, there are many folk in Eve with the mind set, 'you are not playing the way I want you to, so you are not playing properly' This is not a signature. |
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
2
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Posted - 2013.05.01 08:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:Haha, still remember years ago my first trip to Ammamake (somewhat notorious low sec system in Minmatar space). I had just bought myself a shiny new Ferox (lololol fail ship etc, at the time I thought it was the coolest thing ever) and thought I might just duck into Ammamake to pick up a skill book instead of taking a few more jumps to a safer place. Ship didn't last long at all to the gatecamp on the other side. Good learning experience and for the next while I didn't go into low in anything bigger than a frigate. lol, exactly the same happened to me when i was new, except that i was flying a rupture.
Xavier Quo wrote:I think sometimes CCP doesn't get that for a lot of people it's a time thing. Sometimes I can only play for an hour or two a week due to work and RL interests. Waiting around for fleets etc is simply not an option for me 90% of the time and I'm guessing for a lot of others as well.
Incentivising group play simply won't work on me, no matter how big the incentive, and making it obvious that you are losing out for being solo in certain situations is a huge mistake in game design. signed
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
485
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Before anyone posts the obvious "we are solo and we fund eve and CCP are stupid because they listen to forum trolls".
CCP knows exactly who's paying their bills, they have a section of their staff dedicated to knowing who pays their bills.
You can post random data from eve, but CCP has all the data, they don't need you and your data is irrelevant.
If CCP decides to kill off solo play than it's based on data that is superior to your random guess.
I'll be here, learning, adapting and making more isk.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
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Ihazcheez Hashur
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.05.01 08:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
To the OP - I kinda feel strongly about this, and I know some of this will come out wrong but I wear my heart on my sleeve :) - I like solo play and the game very nicely caters for everything I want to do. I do otherwise band together with friends and we have a great deal of fun running level 3 and 4 PVE missions. Actually high sec for us is the perfect place to be, and none of us are interested in direct PvP - as it just doesn't appeal at all. It's just the way we are, a reflection of what we're like as people in the real world.
I do hear a lot of mention to 'emergent story'. Actually emergent story is in the eye of the beholder. For me what happens in <0.5 is inconsequential, whatever happens "out there" really is irrelevant, we're a self sustaining unit can mine and manufacture our own ships and fittings. EvE caters perfectly for it, in fact I'll go as far as to say it almost feels 'designed' for this kind of self sufficient nomadic life style. lol I can almost feel the temperature rise as I typed that! Please don't cross-examine :)
We're exploring now the possibility of setting up in a wormhole, certainly with new up and coming changes it does sound interesting; but we're kinda tangled of going against our philosophy of stepping out of high sec safety for the probable fact that someone will attack our stuff whilst we're not in game and waste the countless amount of time we pour into the 'adventure'. I work in the city, and cannot guarantee I'll get home before midnight sometimes - the thought of folks playing 24/7 and 'killing' our stuff whilst at work or away on business just feels like a major achilles heel.
I digress, in any case, in our own little metagame of eve we have 'emergent story' flooding out in waves, but interesting others think we add no value. I guess it's because the risk averse players like to stick to places of safety, and in my mind 100% nothing wrong with that.. I do find that those that like to PVP and prey on others are just sitting in the middle of their "spider webs" waiting hours for that odd industrial to stray through, or whatever.. I personally think they HATE it because IT IS possible to remain in high sec 100% of the time and have an infinite amount of fun without losing your stuff in otherwise pointless ganks or NULL SEC blobs. I does feel like there's a campaign to stranglehold high sec more and more to force risk averse out and into the spider webs to appease the <0.5 bored.
There we go! A guided tour of my thoughts and a glimpse of our corner of this awesome sandbox.
TLDR; EvE caters perfectly to a variety of play styles, including the risk averse. It's what you make it that counts, not getting forced to stick your toes into piranha infested waters against your will. |
Trevellian Pendragon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.01 09:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
I am almost exclusively a solo player in EvE.
With a bit of navel-gazing I surmise this is down to two reasons, one environmental and one internal. The environmental reason os that I have very erratic and limited time to play (2 children under the age of 3 and a full-time job in an Ops environment), so it is very hard for me to be online at specific times and contribute much to a corps. Whilst many corps are actually OK with that, it is something that irks me personally and I don't like being somewhere where I cannot contribute.
The internal reason is that sometimes I am just an anti-social hermit and I want to be on my own, doing my own thing. This has led me to (both here and other mmorpgs) actually make alternate characters that are *not* in a corps/guild just so I can go somewhere an not be bugged by other people in the corps/guild.
As far as gameplay goes, I have to accept that my choice of gameplay does limit the experience I will have in the game, and I accept that, although with some of the more modern changes to the game solo play has expanded somewhat (faction warfare etc). |
Just Lilly
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Whenever I want solo gameplay in EvE, I log onto the Singularity server. Powered by Nvidia GTX 690 |
Davis TetrisKing
Turtle Enterprises
20
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Posted - 2013.05.01 09:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Before anyone posts the obvious "we are solo and we fund eve and CCP are stupid because they listen to forum trolls".
CCP knows exactly who's paying their bills, they have a section of their staff dedicated to knowing who pays their bills.
You can post random data from eve, but CCP has all the data, they don't need you and your data is irrelevant.
If CCP decides to kill off solo play than it's based on data that is superior to your random guess.
I'll be here, learning, adapting and making more isk.
Not exactly sure what your post is in response to (I don't think people have been posting data?), but yeah, you're definitely right about CCP having the data and that it's their call to 'kill off solo play' and all that.
I'm just not sure where you're coming from with this post or what exactly you're trying to point out. I don't think solo play is at risk or anything like that, I'm just curious about the community's thoughts on solo pilots. |
Davis TetrisKing
Turtle Enterprises
20
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Posted - 2013.05.01 10:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ihazcheez Hashur wrote:To the OP - I kinda feel strongly about this, and I know some of this will come out wrong but I wear my heart on my sleeve :) - I like solo play and the game very nicely caters for everything I want to do. I do otherwise band together with friends and we have a great deal of fun running level 3 and 4 PVE missions. Actually high sec for us is the perfect place to be, and none of us are interested in direct PvP - as it just doesn't appeal at all. It's just the way we are, a reflection of what we're like as people in the real world.
shortened just for readability
TLDR; EvE caters perfectly to a variety of play styles, including the risk averse. It's what you make it that counts, not getting forced to stick your toes into piranha infested waters against your will.
Yep, I have a pretty similar view point. I do think there should be some extra rewards for heading out into dangerous space, but I'm more than happy for people to chill in High Sec. I dislike the PvP camper attitude that seems to be 'make them come to my trap, they shouldn't be allowed to stay away from my trap', but I'm not too concerned that CCP will ever do that.
All the best for moving out into WH, it can be pretty exciting at times. It's definitely a lot of work, and quite different to the safe 'do whatever I feel like doing today' feel of high sec, but if it's something you want to do go for it! I did a small stint for a while in WH and burnt myself out from the commitment to the game, but that was as much my own fault as anything. Starting a WH from scratch (we only had 1 person with any WH experience) led to many many late nights and quite a few lost ships, but pretty glad I did it looking back. Good luck! |
Danni stark
56
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Posted - 2013.05.01 10:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
there's nothing wrong with solo players.
there is however, a problem with people who think they should be able to play this like a single player game and never have to interact with others, and cry like a baby with a slapped arse when they do have to. Yay, this account hasn't had it's signature banned. or it's account, if you're reading this. |
Jake Tzestu
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.05.01 10:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
i've never thought of EVE as a MMO, i see it as a sandbox game that has the option of MMO or Solo play.
I think a lot of ppl dislike the gamers who complain with no really point to the moan. CCP offer a game and you get the choice to play or not to play. Moaning doesnt really help and thats what ppl seem to react too.
so what i have just done (sort of) is moan about the moaners. Hmmmm |
Davis TetrisKing
Turtle Enterprises
20
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Posted - 2013.05.01 10:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jake Tzestu wrote:so what i have just done (sort of) is moan about the moaners. Hmmmm
Haha, dont we all... |
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
488
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Posted - 2013.05.01 11:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Before anyone posts the obvious "we are solo and we fund eve and CCP are stupid because they listen to forum trolls".
CCP knows exactly who's paying their bills, they have a section of their staff dedicated to knowing who pays their bills.
You can post random data from eve, but CCP has all the data, they don't need you and your data is irrelevant.
If CCP decides to kill off solo play than it's based on data that is superior to your random guess.
I'll be here, learning, adapting and making more isk.
Not exactly sure what your post is in response to (I don't think people have been posting data?), but yeah, you're definitely right about CCP having the data and that it's their call to 'kill off solo play' and all that. I'm just not sure where you're coming from with this post or what exactly you're trying to point out. I don't think solo play is at risk or anything like that, I'm just curious about the community's thoughts on solo pilots. My bad, I was just generally annoyed about the entire "Oh my gawd, CCP is killing solo, they will notice when I unsub me 14 accounts"
And your question was much better than that.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
1583
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Posted - 2013.05.01 11:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
Trevellian Pendragon wrote:I am almost exclusively a solo player in EvE.
With a bit of navel-gazing I surmise this is down to two reasons, one environmental and one internal. The environmental reason os that I have very erratic and limited time to play (2 children under the age of 3 and a full-time job in an Ops environment), so it is very hard for me to be online at specific times and contribute much to a corps. Whilst many corps are actually OK with that, it is something that irks me personally and I don't like being somewhere where I cannot contribute.
The internal reason is that sometimes I am just an anti-social hermit and I want to be on my own, doing my own thing. This has led me to (both here and other mmorpgs) actually make alternate characters that are *not* in a corps/guild just so I can go somewhere an not be bugged by other people in the corps/guild.
As far as gameplay goes, I have to accept that my choice of gameplay does limit the experience I will have in the game, and I accept that, although with some of the more modern changes to the game solo play has expanded somewhat (faction warfare etc).
You're not alone. Many people play solo because soloing is the only casual-friendly activity in game. Actually, most of those players are solo+casual players, and they have got reasons as yours: RL > EVE. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Davis TetrisKing
Turtle Enterprises
21
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Posted - 2013.05.01 11:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Davis TetrisKing wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Before anyone posts the obvious "we are solo and we fund eve and CCP are stupid because they listen to forum trolls".
CCP knows exactly who's paying their bills, they have a section of their staff dedicated to knowing who pays their bills.
You can post random data from eve, but CCP has all the data, they don't need you and your data is irrelevant.
If CCP decides to kill off solo play than it's based on data that is superior to your random guess.
I'll be here, learning, adapting and making more isk.
Not exactly sure what your post is in response to (I don't think people have been posting data?), but yeah, you're definitely right about CCP having the data and that it's their call to 'kill off solo play' and all that. I'm just not sure where you're coming from with this post or what exactly you're trying to point out. I don't think solo play is at risk or anything like that, I'm just curious about the community's thoughts on solo pilots. My bad, I was just generally annoyed about the entire "Oh my gawd, CCP is killing solo, they will notice when I unsub me 14 accounts" And your question was much better than that.
Thanks for clarifying what you meant, much appreciated. I definitely agree forums can be a tad alarmist at times (understatement?).
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KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
172
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Posted - 2013.05.01 12:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
I like the solo sometimes.
Its just that 200+ coalition friends always decide to solo aswell in the exact same place at the exact same time. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1683
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Posted - 2013.05.01 12:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:Recently I've noticed a bit more emphasis on the forums about players who play eve 'solo'. From my impression from the forums people tend to dislike soloers (I've read 'eve is a multiplayer game, go back to...' quite a few times lately) so I'm interested to get a bit of a feedback as to what people do and don't like about soloers or solo activities in the game.
*Skip to below for tl;dr*
I'll start off by saying that I definitely have a vested interest in the topic. I am what I think most people would consider a solo player in eve. I pretty rarely group up with other people to accomplish things and having recently moved out to low sec spend most of my time running sites, ratting and generally managing PI on my own.
To me this doesn't mean I have no interaction with other players. I'm not playing a single player game. I'm duking it out on my own in a world full of other pilots that might be able to help me, that I might be able to benefit from or (more likely) are out to get me if I give them a chance. This makes my 'solo' experience far more exciting than anything any single player game could ever give me.
I'm a bit too much of a risk averse carebear at the moment to really get into PvP, but I love the excitement of getting chased around lowsec trying to dodge pirates etc. The way I'm on edge when hauling stuff the few jumps back to high sec. I love raiding WHs knowing that there's a good chance I could die to another enterprising pilot who knows their dscan well enough to drop probes right on me and land on me before I know whats going on. To me the 'solo' experience is so much enriched by the fact that other people are out there.
*tl;dr*
I understand that 'eve is a multiplayer game', and the best way to thrive is to join forces with others. But I like that even if it might not be the 'best' way to go, I can carve out my own piece of eve on my own if I want in a world that is affected by others.
So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?
The bolded part is the important part. There is nothing wrong with being a "solo players" SO LONG AS you understand it's a multilayer game and you are CHOOSING a less than optimal path.
YOU aren't the problem. It's these people who love to play solo AND think the game should be changed to fit them so they can "be left alone".
I play "solo" a lot when I feel like it or when my corp mates aren't one etc. Nothing wrong with it at all. I, like you don't feel like "pvp" all the time, but I still know i'm in a pvp game and people will come at me and I love figuring out new ways to survive, even if i don't get very many kills (on this toon which mainly does high sec stuff, on my pvp "main" that I trot out for wars, i get a good few).
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1683
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Davis TetrisKing wrote:
*tl;dr*
I understand that 'eve is a multiplayer game', and the best way to thrive is to join forces with others. But I like that even if it might not be the 'best' way to go, I can carve out my own piece of eve on my own if I want in a world that is affected by others.
So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?
I mainly play solo, and accept the drawbacks. I don't feel that the non-solo crowd is that hostile, it's more of solo players complaining that they get shafted, in a multi-player game. So if you want to play solo, then play solo and accept the fact that you are playing solo in a multi-player game, and for some of us, quit moaning about it.
And i coulda just copy and pastes this post whether than make my own. Spot on Lors.
It won't be long before some brilliant "victimized" type person comes in and says "people just want me to play like they do!!!", because that's what they always like to think.
As long as you accept the drawbacks of your choices (as the OP and Lors and me do), no one (who isn't trolling) has a problem with you.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1683
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Xavier Quo wrote:Me too. Solo losec exploration, avoid pirates, interacting with random people on your journey, that is what eve is for me.
I think sometimes CCP doesn't get that for a lot of people it's a time thing. Sometimes I can only play for an hour or two a week due to work and RL interests. Waiting around for fleets etc is simply not an option for me 90% of the time and I'm guessing for a lot of others as well.
Incentivising group play simply won't work on me, no matter how big the incentive, and making it obvious that you are losing out for being solo in certain situations is a huge mistake in game design.
No it isn't. The game design is fine, it's not CCP's fault some people don't have more free time.
I sometimes have limited free time. I compensate for that by having multiple account in different parts of EVE. When I don't have time for group pvp stuff in null sec or waiting around for a high sec incursion fleet, I can log on the low sec mission alt or the null sec anom farmer and have a few minutes of space ship fun then off I go. Not saying everyone should do it exactly my way, but there ARE already ways to play EVE with limited time.
The problem is "solo players" resistance to things that are good for this MULTIPLAYER game just because they are solo or have limited time. It's BS when people think their problems are somehow everyone else's problem.
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Famine Aligher'ri
V i L e
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
I'm an off and on solo pirate and have been since 2004. Today, there is very few to no other players like me with the same amount of pirate experience in my trade due to how badly low-sec to null-sec piracy has become in today's EVE. Most of my friends (the oldschool pirates) in this trade have either quit the game or changed professions due to the lack of value of said trade. It's not that I want to solo, it's just that I'm sort of forced to solo more and more because my trade has been dying off each year with each change CCP makes.
While I understand there are people in this thread sort of bashing solo play. I have to solo to stay relevant in my profession. The worst part about what I do as a player is the massive amount of risk with very little reward in most areas of my trade.
To those saying solo players don't contribute to a massively multiplayer sandbox game, you're wrong. We may like to play solo, but our actions as solo players can still impact and react to other players in the game regardless if they are solo or not. The only time you could even remotely get away with solo players not contributing the games is if solo play was entirely offline or instanced where our actions did not impact the world when we played. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2454
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
**** the haters. No one has to subscribe to anyone else's idea of a sandbox. When it comes to Eve, as in life, do whatever makes you happy.
Happy flying. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
596
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
What's preventing you from playing solo? Do you get the message "Your client has been disconnected from the server" when you start playing solo? |
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Demica Diaz
The Scope Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 13:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Before I graduated I had quite some time to play EVE so I was in E-Uni and RvB for short time. But now I travel a lot and sometimes cannot log in for months. So naturally its easier for me to be solo player in NPC corp and I only have one character. I simply play this game to relax and just have fun when I dont have anything else to do. I dont see any problem with players do the same. Its not as fun being solo player in this game, I know I had much more fun in big corp but when you really dont have time to invest into game then going solo is one option.
But I dont like to see EVE going more WoW way where playing solo / casual way is encouraged and game content is slowly being tailored towards this casual crowd as I think that kinda killed WoW hardcore side. CCP can offer some tools and tricks for solo players but never should it create content that starts encouraging solo play, that I think would hurt EVE quite a lot. Other than that, play way you like and just ignore ranting people who think only way to play EVE is their way. |
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
90
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Can't say I've ever encountered any noticeable complaining about me playing eve solo almost exclusively.
If anything, I'd say I've received at least some respect and attention for having the balls to do pvp with no safety net. But I don't think anyone has ever said "hey **** you buddy, what u flyin' around alone for? We dun take kindly to that kind of thing around here..." |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1683
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:Can't say I've ever encountered any noticeable complaining about me playing eve solo almost exclusively.
If anything, I'd say I've received at least some respect and attention for having the balls to do pvp with no safety net. But I don't think anyone has ever said "hey **** you buddy, what u flyin' around alone for? We dun take kindly to that kind of thing around here..."
LOL, I swear I heard banjo music in my mind while reading that last snetence. Thanks . |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
1378
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Anything done to aid a "true solo player" will always be to the greater advantage of those willing to work together.
ShahFluffers' corollary to Malcanis' Law detected.
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
768
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 15:26:00 -
[45] - Quote
Because moderation on this forum is so terrible, it's easy for very benign positions to be quickly turned into false confrontations between us and them, black and white, etc. I am confident that the vast majority of players have or do "play solo" quite often, in that they are doing an activity in game that doesn't require the direct back and forth input of teamwork at that very moment.
The two areas of contention form around those that think they should not be interfered with and those that desire there to be more and better content and rewards for solo play.
The former will always get a harsh response as they are essentially missing the whole point of the game. People pull out "sandbox" to infer that they can do whatever they want, when it is clear from numerous statements from CCP that this is an interactive MMO where you are never immune to the actions of others. Essentially these people want Eve to be a different game than it is, and they will be met with corresponding scorn and dismissal.
The latter area of contention is far more problematic. Eve is fundamentally an odd game in that it is an acquired taste, you have to learn to like it, whether through playing it despite your initial reaction to its difference or through growing tired of the common structure of the vast majority of other games, thereby driving you to look for something new.
I at first played Eve like any other game: build my skills, get better gear, fight better mobs, and it was a pretty awful game in that respect because it's not designed to be satisfying in that sense. Eve is designed around getting you in space, and then letting the interactions between players in space pursuing their own ends form the content of the game.
Now, if "solo" to you means going out on your own and interacting with others to pursue your own ends as your own individual pilot, then nobody has any problem with that. However, if you think solo means going out and not interacting with other players, then you are missing the point of the game. CCP is moving further and further away from content that is not "interactive" with other players, whether you are interacting as an individual or as part of a larger group, and will continue to do so. If you are playing in the hopes of more non-interactive content, then you might as well quit now. The game will continue to push people into the same space and reward those who can control the encounters through whatever means (force, diplomacy, guile, etc).
Edit: that said, there is definitely an awareness of the time constraints of casual players and the often inherent additional commitment of interactive play, so we can expect that features will be designed with the more casual players in mind that allow for interaction with the minimal commitment of time. |
Grobalobobob Bob
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 15:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Being force-butt-herded into an arena against my will for the sake of "this MULTIPLAYER game" is NOT what I would call good PR. Sometimes I think that the low and null sec communities are doing everything in their power to force all those juicy high sec players into their traps. Tactics like "nerf agent missions, nerf solo play, strangle high sec profitability, risk vs reward balance, remove high sec completely, stop creating fun PVE etc etc etc" ... It's just exactly as i mentioned, bored low and NULL players looking across the pond at all those carebears having fun and profiteering in SAFETY in high sec areas, whilst they're bored as hell and moaning / complaining at CCP for making "life too easy" because there's nothing to "shoot". It will take a huge shake up to encourage most people out of high sec, and that aint going to happen unless forced out.
It's NOT a case of CCP encouraging high sec care-bearing if they improve solo and NPC storyline, and rebuffing storylines within high sec. Truth is, folks like me who live in high sec, and care nothing for zealotting in low / null will stay in high forever, no matter how much the 'bored' community try to bully us into "their" world and "their" way of playing EVE. We have a large group of friends who have a lot of fun playing EVE "our way". Despite a community hell-bent on syphoning all the 'fun' out of high sec.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
768
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 15:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ya, people like you are screwed. Your paranoid delusions aside, non-interactive content is on the out.
I am looking forward to how they design content that is both interactive and casual, while not feeling too "instancey", as it will be a pioneering effort in video games. |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
139
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 15:50:00 -
[48] - Quote
it's Everyone versus Everyone. The more people group up the less that happens so it's just as well some of us play differently. freelance space bum |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
597
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 15:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
Grobalobobob Bob wrote:Being force-butt-herded into an arena against my will for the sake of "this MULTIPLAYER game" is NOT what I would call good PR. Sometimes I think that the low and null sec communities are doing everything in their power to force all those juicy high sec players into their traps. Tactics like "nerf agent missions, nerf solo play, strangle high sec profitability, risk vs reward balance, remove high sec completely, stop creating fun PVE etc etc etc" ... It's just exactly as i mentioned, bored low and NULL players looking across the pond at all those carebears having fun and profiteering in SAFETY in high sec areas, whilst they're bored as hell and moaning / complaining at CCP for making "life too easy" because there's nothing to "shoot". It will take a huge shake up to encourage most people out of high sec, and that aint going to happen unless forced out.
It's NOT a case of CCP encouraging high sec care-bearing if they improve solo and NPC storyline, and rebuffing storylines within high sec. Truth is, folks like me who live in high sec, and care nothing for zealotting in low / null will stay in high forever, no matter how much the 'bored' community try to bully us into "their" world and "their" way of playing EVE. We have a large group of friends who have a lot of fun playing EVE "our way". Despite a community hell-bent on syphoning all the 'fun' out of high sec.
If you hate sandbox mmo-rpg's, why do you play them? Why don't you go play a game that suites your needs, either single player game or a themepark mmo-rpg would fit like a glove on you. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3343
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 16:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:If you hate sandbox mmo-rpg's, why do you play them? Why don't you go play a game that suites your needs, either single player game or a themepark mmo-rpg would fit like a glove on you.
Congratulations for proving the point.
Remember, it's a sandbox game. If someone wants to build sand castles by themselves, that's their prerogative. If they want to build a sand empire with their thousand closest friends, that's just fine too.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
768
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 16:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Remember, it's a sandbox game. If someone wants to build sand castles by themselves, that's their prerogative. If they want to build a sand empire with their thousand closest friends, that's just fine too.
Sure, as long as you accept that your sand castle will be comparatively crappy and others can come kick it over, then more power to you. If not, then no, you're wrong. |
Grobalobobob Bob
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 16:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Remember, it's a sandbox game. If someone wants to build sand castles by themselves, that's their prerogative. If they want to build a sand empire with their thousand closest friends, that's just fine too. Sure, as long as you accept that your sand castle will be comparatively crappy and others can come kick it over, then more power to you. If not, then no, you're wrong.
My point is, my castle isn't crappy at all in my eyes. Sure I can compare my house to a billionaire mansion, but if I'm truly happy, and my house suits me / our family, then that's totally ok for me. No one is going to kick over my sandcastle in high sec, that's the beauty of it... and is why it's pointless swimming in that piranha infested water others call "the true eve", why dedicate valuable time setting up in NULL or whatever and give someone else something to stomp on? No one is going to persuade me otherwise. I'm happy being what I am in eve, solo / carebear. Some kids love stomping on other peoples sand castles, that's up to them.. Some kids love having their creations stomped to dust.. that's also good for them if that's what they like. Me? I like keeping my stuff, thankyou! I dont work out for hours only to feed someone's epeen killboard.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
771
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 16:46:00 -
[53] - Quote
Except people can try to destroy anything you try to build no matter where you are. Beyond that, more power to you. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1684
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 16:48:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:If you hate sandbox mmo-rpg's, why do you play them? Why don't you go play a game that suites your needs, either single player game or a themepark mmo-rpg would fit like a glove on you. Congratulations for proving the point.
Vaju didn't prove any point. Asking someone why they make a poor choice in playing a multplayer game isn't the same as making them leave the game (or high sec). For some reason people like to confalte the two issues, but that's wrong/
Quote: Remember, it's a sandbox game. If someone wants to build sand castles by themselves, that's their prerogative. If they want to build a sand empire with their thousand closest friends, that's just fine too.
yea, like the other poster said, as long as they understand that its ok for others to knock down those sand castles. I think it's pretty clear that playing how you want to (within the EUAL) is fine, what's not fine is complaining about the natural consequences of playing a game where EVERYONE has free choice as well as you do.
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Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 16:53:00 -
[55] - Quote
There is definitely a segment of the player base that generates their own emergent content in high sec corps co-oping missions, anoms, and plexes in high sec--with some dabbling in low sec--along with all their other corp activities. Corpies in low sec and 0.0 also co-op PVE together, though less probably since that's not their focus. And of course lots of people focus on solo PVE, but not all of those are cut off from the sandbox.
The important questions are not "is it ok to play solo?" or "is it ok for our corp to focus on PVE?". Nobody's going to stop you. Do whatever you want to do. The big question is if CCP has any plans to improve the part of the game that all these masses of people choose to focus on. We need answers to these questions:
How and when is PVE going to be iterated? (It's like American public education. Everything else seems to come before it.)
Should more dynamic and varied choices in PVE be introduced into the game? If so, how can it be geared towards groups of all skill levels? (Making solo play more financially rewarding is not what CCP wants.)
Should we be given more opportunities to experience the lore of New Eden through an enrichment of the environment and the addition of more storyline elements?
Even those who focus on PVP like--and need to--PVE sometimes, and they often do it solo, due to convenience and maximizing ISK. Others choose that style of play as default. And then there are the newer players who are still getting to know the world and don't feel near ready to go out and blow stuff up and get blown up.
If you play solo, this should be important to you. If you co-op PVE, this should be important to you.
All you quiet solo guys and high sec PVEers need to let your voice be heard on this! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1684
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 16:54:00 -
[56] - Quote
Grobalobobob Bob wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Remember, it's a sandbox game. If someone wants to build sand castles by themselves, that's their prerogative. If they want to build a sand empire with their thousand closest friends, that's just fine too. Sure, as long as you accept that your sand castle will be comparatively crappy and others can come kick it over, then more power to you. If not, then no, you're wrong. My point is, my castle isn't crappy at all in my eyes. Sure I can compare my house to a billionaire mansion, but if I'm truly happy, and my house suits me / our family, then that's totally ok for me. No one is going to kick over my sandcastle in high sec, that's the beauty of it... and is why it's pointless swimming in that piranha infested water others call "the true eve", why dedicate valuable time setting up in NULL or whatever and give someone else something to stomp on? No one is going to persuade me otherwise. I'm happy being what I am in eve, solo / carebear. Some kids love stomping on other peoples sand castles, that's up to them.. Some kids love having their creations stomped to dust.. that's also good for them if that's what they like. Me? I like keeping my stuff, thankyou! I dont work out for hours only to feed someone's epeen killboard.
You're so paranoid you are totally missiing the point (while at the exact same time become a poster boy for the exact type of attitude that makes may folks look at high sec with disdain).
No one wants you to go to null (where you obviously couldn't make it anyway). No one cares what you do in game or out. No one in null sec is so bored as to actually care that high sec people exist in the 1st place. There is enough killing in null sec, as evidenced by the fact that the EVE economy is still churning out ships to explode.
What folks like me are saying is that if you expect silly and unreasonable things from a video game (like the people who want high sec to be totally safe), you're going to get talked about and your feelings are going to get hurt.
The solo/casual/high sec player that understand that this is a multiplayer game and that it does and should reward cooperation and that it does and should foster conflict are ok in my book.
The guys screaming "give me more stuff to have fun with because I choose to play this game but can't spare more than 5 minutes a day for it and my personal problem is YOUR problem" can simply screw off.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
773
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 16:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:Should more dynamic and varied choices in PVE be introduced into the game? If so, how can it be geared towards groups of all skill levels? (Making solo play more financially rewarding is not what CCP wants.)
Should we be given more opportunities to experience the lore of New Eden through an enrichment of the environment and the addition of more storyline elements?
PVE will be iterated by making it more cooperative and/or competitive. The point is that the enjoyment derived will be from the interactions with other players needed to engage the environmental content.
What does that mean in simple terms? More things like enhanced AI and less things like mission iteration.
There is an obvious push for more story based content, but it is coming in the form of changes that affect everyone, or at least huge swathes of people, like Caldari Prime as opposed to more epic arc stories meant for individuals interacting with agents NPCs. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1684
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 16:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:There is definitely a segment of the player base that generates their own emergent content in high sec corps co-oping missions, anoms, and plexes in high sec--with some dabbling in low sec--along with all their other corp activities. Corpies in low sec and 0.0 also co-op PVE together, though less probably since that's not their focus. And of course lots of people focus on solo PVE, but not all of those are cut off from the sandbox.
The important questions are not "is it ok to play solo?" or "is it ok for our corp to focus on PVE?". Nobody's going to stop you. Do whatever you want to do. The big question is if CCP has any plans to improve the part of the game that all these masses of people choose to focus on. We need answers to these questions:
How and when is PVE going to be iterated? (It's like American public education. Everything else seems to come before it.)
Should more dynamic and varied choices in PVE be introduced into the game? If so, how can it be geared towards groups of all skill levels? (Making solo play more financially rewarding is not what CCP wants.)
Should we be given more opportunities to experience the lore of New Eden through an enrichment of the environment and the addition of more storyline elements?
Even those who focus on PVP like--and need to--PVE sometimes, and they often do it solo, due to convenience and maximizing ISK. Others choose that style of play as default. And then there are the newer players who are still getting to know the world and don't feel near ready to go out and blow stuff up and get blown up.
If you play solo, this should be important to you. If you co-op PVE, this should be important to you.
All you quiet solo guys and high sec PVEers need to let your voice be heard on this!
This is basically false. It is not a matter of PVP vs PVE. I'm a PVE player myself, i've probably killed a few MILLION NPCs for every one real player's killmail I've been on a few (thats my main pvp char, I have a few more kills on other chars).
PVP isn't the only interactive activity in EVE, and CCP is simply moving to a point where more activities have more directly interactive/multiplayer features.
I think the PVE in EVE is basically ok (I do null sec exploration, low sec PVE except FW, and high sec exploration and incursions), people who keep screaming for pve "iteration" are just people who are easily bored and should probably be playing a more PVE oriented game to begin with. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1684
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 17:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Angang Ostus wrote:Should more dynamic and varied choices in PVE be introduced into the game? If so, how can it be geared towards groups of all skill levels? (Making solo play more financially rewarding is not what CCP wants.)
Should we be given more opportunities to experience the lore of New Eden through an enrichment of the environment and the addition of more storyline elements? PVE will be iterated by making it more cooperative and/or competitive. The point is that the enjoyment derived will be from the interactions with other players needed to engage the environmental content. What does that mean in simple terms? More things like enhanced AI and less things like mission iteration. There is an obvious push for more story based content, but it is coming in the form of changes that affect everyone, or at least huge swathes of people, like Caldari Prime as opposed to more epic arc stories meant for individuals interacting with agents NPCs.
Well said. And this is the exact direction CCP should be going in.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
773
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 17:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Well said. And this is the exact direction CCP should be going in.
Yeah, I really don't want to be pigeon-holed into some "leetpvp" person, which I am definitely not. For example, I think incursions are a great feature, especially for more casual players.
Personally, I think missions should be considered beginner fare, and should transition naturally into more rewarding group PvE in hisec, which in turn should transition naturally into competitive group PvE in hisec and lowsec for those who have the time and desire to make the extra step, which in turn is a natural transition then to claim-staking for those who want to and can go even further (heavy PvP focus) in all areas of space.
However, wherever someone lives, there should always be some baseline option where you can just undock and shoot something for an hour, whether that is anoms or missions or sites or whatever, but the reward should reflect the lack of competition and cooperation involved.
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Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 17:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I think the PVE in EVE is basically ok (I do null sec exploration, low sec PVE except FW, and high sec exploration and incursions), people who keep screaming for pve "iteration" are just people who are easily bored and should probably be playing a more PVE oriented game to begin with.
People who argue for PVE being left in the dust while literally everything else receives extensive iteration are just reactionaries who reject diversity.
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Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 17:25:00 -
[62] - Quote
Everyone in eve should be considered a solo player, from one man corps to big alliance bosses, after all its all personal ego....
Simply put, the meta games and the lack of trust it engenders along with the multiple accounts its evident we are all out just for our selves.
Huge scams, corp rip offs, disbanding BoB, all solo players that kicked the others.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
773
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 17:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
Brainless Bimbo wrote:Everyone in eve should be considered a solo player, from one man corps to big alliance bosses, after all its all personal ego....
Simply put, the meta games and the lack of trust it engenders along with the multiple accounts its evident we are all out just for our selves.
Huge scams, corp rip offs, disbanding BoB, all solo players that kicked the others.
Ya, exactly. It would actually be a bad move to make group interaction too easy and structured. Groups should be fractious and constantly rising and falling.
Otherwise it's just "clanwars" online, which empties out a huge range of group formation and maintenance that makes interaction in Eve so fun. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2695
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 17:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
Most of those people who say "this is a multiplayer game go back to WoW" are the ones who tend to take glee in ganking, scamming, etc. and exhibit an inability to get over themselves.
The rest of the players, regardless of what the do, do whatever they want, and don't care what anybody else does. They might play in groups, they might play solo, they probably do both..
Most important of all, they don't sit there saying "Eve is...." and then try to adhere to it like some kind of religion.
Self-interest and not giving a rats ass what anybody thinks - that's a sandbox. That's also an exercise in liberty.
Sometimes I suspect that the "Eve is... and therefore all must adhere to it" crowd are the kids who grew up watching too many political speeches where they were sold on the virtues of seeking out causes "greater than themselves". Well, whatever one's opinion on any cause, I doubt a video game is one of them.
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1684
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 17:43:00 -
[65] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I think the PVE in EVE is basically ok (I do null sec exploration, low sec PVE except FW, and high sec exploration and incursions), people who keep screaming for pve "iteration" are just people who are easily bored and should probably be playing a more PVE oriented game to begin with. People who argue for PVE being left in the dust while literally everything else receives extensive iteration are just reactionaries who reject diversity.
That's just paranoid BS. PVE gets iterated on all the time (incursion nerf/ buff, null sec anom buffs/nerfs, the mission ui overhaul last year, the major NPC AI change that happened a few months ago etc etc etc). Hell, the next expansion will include major changes or additions to key parts of PVE (anomaly rebalance, scanning changes, ice anoms, major mag/radar overhaul).
WTf are you talking about anyway?
EVE PVE is fine, hell its better than it was 2 years ago. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's broken.
|
Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 18:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Angang Ostus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I think the PVE in EVE is basically ok (I do null sec exploration, low sec PVE except FW, and high sec exploration and incursions), people who keep screaming for pve "iteration" are just people who are easily bored and should probably be playing a more PVE oriented game to begin with. People who argue for PVE being left in the dust while literally everything else receives extensive iteration are just reactionaries who reject diversity. That's just paranoid BS (the paranoid part is ignoring all the great recent PVE changes while concntrating attention on the few changes that have affected pvp). PVE gets iterated on all the time (incursion nerf/ buff, null sec anom buffs/nerfs, the mission ui overhaul last year, the major NPC AI change that happened a few months ago etc etc etc). Hell, the next expansion will include major changes or additions to key parts of PVE (anomaly rebalance, scanning changes, ice anoms, major mag/radar overhaul). WTf are you talking about anyway? EVE PVE is fine, hell its better than it was 2 years ago. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's broken.
It's not broken. It's just old and tired. There are two kinds of iteration, maintenance and new stuff. Everything up to now since Apocrypha, other than Incursions, has been maintenance. That's important and those changes have been great. Odyssey is clearly going to add some new content to exploration. Hopefully it's more than just the model of the ancient colony ships they showed at Fanfest. If they think just that plus pinata mechanics is going to instill " a sense of wonder" in us they've got another thing coming.
You're wrong. EVE PVE is not fine. Anything in an MMORPG that has only received maintenance but precious little new stuff for this many years is far from just fine. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness Clockwork Pineapple
1848
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 19:03:00 -
[67] - Quote
then you have the real issue
solo pvp is acceptable and encouraged solo mining is not
so lets be clear on what aspect of solo play people really hate |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
598
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 19:04:00 -
[68] - Quote
Angang Ostus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Angang Ostus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I think the PVE in EVE is basically ok (I do null sec exploration, low sec PVE except FW, and high sec exploration and incursions), people who keep screaming for pve "iteration" are just people who are easily bored and should probably be playing a more PVE oriented game to begin with. People who argue for PVE being left in the dust while literally everything else receives extensive iteration are just reactionaries who reject diversity. That's just paranoid BS (the paranoid part is ignoring all the great recent PVE changes while concntrating attention on the few changes that have affected pvp). PVE gets iterated on all the time (incursion nerf/ buff, null sec anom buffs/nerfs, the mission ui overhaul last year, the major NPC AI change that happened a few months ago etc etc etc). Hell, the next expansion will include major changes or additions to key parts of PVE (anomaly rebalance, scanning changes, ice anoms, major mag/radar overhaul). WTf are you talking about anyway? EVE PVE is fine, hell its better than it was 2 years ago. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's broken. It's not broken. It's just old and tired. There are two kinds of iteration, maintenance and new stuff. Everything up to now since Apocrypha, other than Incursions, has been maintenance. That's important and those changes have been great. Odyssey is clearly going to add some new content to exploration. Hopefully it's more than just the model of the ancient colony ships they showed at Fanfest. If they think just that plus pinata mechanics is going to instill " a sense of wonder" in us they've got another thing coming. You're wrong. EVE PVE is not fine. Anything in an MMORPG that has only received maintenance but precious little new stuff for this many years is far from just fine.
EvE Online is an old school sandbox mmo-rpg game, not a kindergarten themepark game. In EvE, players are the content. It makes no sense to spend CCP precious time making worthless themepark stuff.
What CCP should do is constantly iterate and improve the existing systems (like in the last 3 expansions) and intruduce new sandbox features (Odyssey). |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
139
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 19:05:00 -
[69] - Quote
yeah, missions could use an overhaul in particular. they're unengaging grindfests currently. freelance space bum |
Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 22:17:00 -
[70] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Angang Ostus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Angang Ostus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I think the PVE in EVE is basically ok (I do null sec exploration, low sec PVE except FW, and high sec exploration and incursions), people who keep screaming for pve "iteration" are just people who are easily bored and should probably be playing a more PVE oriented game to begin with. People who argue for PVE being left in the dust while literally everything else receives extensive iteration are just reactionaries who reject diversity. That's just paranoid BS (the paranoid part is ignoring all the great recent PVE changes while concntrating attention on the few changes that have affected pvp). PVE gets iterated on all the time (incursion nerf/ buff, null sec anom buffs/nerfs, the mission ui overhaul last year, the major NPC AI change that happened a few months ago etc etc etc). Hell, the next expansion will include major changes or additions to key parts of PVE (anomaly rebalance, scanning changes, ice anoms, major mag/radar overhaul). WTf are you talking about anyway? EVE PVE is fine, hell its better than it was 2 years ago. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's broken. It's not broken. It's just old and tired. There are two kinds of iteration, maintenance and new stuff. Everything up to now since Apocrypha, other than Incursions, has been maintenance. That's important and those changes have been great. Odyssey is clearly going to add some new content to exploration. Hopefully it's more than just the model of the ancient colony ships they showed at Fanfest. If they think just that plus pinata mechanics is going to instill " a sense of wonder" in us they've got another thing coming. You're wrong. EVE PVE is not fine. Anything in an MMORPG that has only received maintenance but precious little new stuff for this many years is far from just fine. EvE Online is an old school sandbox mmo-rpg game, not a kindergarten themepark game. In EvE, players are the content. It makes no sense to spend CCP precious time making worthless themepark stuff. What CCP should do is constantly iterate and improve the existing systems (like in the last 3 expansions) and intruduce new sandbox features (Odyssey).
I don't think in black and white like you. I see a grey area where sci fi lovers like myself can get some content while the sandbox continues to roll on. I can participate fully in the sandbox while taking time on the side to enjoy some content that immerses me in the world in a different way. And make some ISK while I'm at it, which I need to do anyway. If CCP is lacking in "precious time" to make this happen, then...well I hope they heed voices like mine and hire the right people.
You can be as disrespectful as you like but more PVE content would improve EVE for a lot of us. And I'm talking about people who love EVE and want to invest in it and want to be active in player interaction and emergent content. |
|
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
445
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 22:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
Sigh. It's your game time, play how you want. End of story. CCP will cater to what their numbers show. If all of a sudden, tomorrows data showed that 75% of the player were solo players, CCP's next expansion would be all for solo players. Thats the way Corporations work in real life. They cater to their customer base or someone else will and they go out of business.
dark heartt wrote:It's not so much the solo gameplay that people dislike, it's the mindset that people generally get from playing solo. I do a lot of solo activities in game as my time permits, but I also involve myself in the community. I would say that the vast majority of solo players are the miners and industrialists out there and they tend to complain about being killed by gankers and use the 'highsec should be safe argument'.
The other major thing is that they feel solo players don't bring any emergent gameplay to the sandbox, so they don't contribute anything to the game.
That and some people just like to hate on other peoples gameplay styles just because it isn't their own.
I agree and disagree.
I agree that it's not so much solo players, its the solo players that complain about Solo content when EVE is clearly marketing as a game with immense social implications that are the problem. I disagree that its the vast majority. I dont think there is anyway to put a number on this. Unless CCP has offical data on this, this is just conjecture. "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2362
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 22:56:00 -
[72] - Quote
The general impression I came away from Fanfest with was that CCP want to make more PvE content... but they want it to be more geared towards group play... and by that I mean; you can still run content solo, you just won't be very efficient doing it by yourself (or multiboxing).
And as far as the state of PvE is concerned Angang Ostus... the problem with creating whole new PvE content that people can run by themselves is that it will be mapped out and become repetitive in the space of 6 months or less. Then the DEVs are back at square one. Rinse and repeat.
The best content we have got PvE-wise (in my opinion) is where the DEVs gave us tools and a situation that cannot be solo'ed by a single player (not without very significant effort and/or risk at least).
Wormholes are a good example of this. C1s to C3s can be solo'd... it's hard and risky but doable. Beyond that you NEED people... because if the Sleepers don't rip you a new one then someone residing or invading it will. Incursions... pure group content. When they first came out people whinged and bitched because they lost their pimp fit Rattlesnakes and CNRs screaming "I shouldn't be forced to work with others." A year later it's now "old and tired" PvE... but wait... it's still chugging and still causing drama... because the players themselves are causing it... because the site forces them to interact.
Whether some like it or not... content that encourages group interaction and conflict is the way this game is going to evolve... simply because it's more future proof than anything else. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
359
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 23:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
I'll have to admit. My main money maker is in an NPC corp. I sometimes interact with people, but always at arms length... With a 10 foot pole.
I suppose saying this will make someone invariably mad as they claim that NPC corps are the bane of EVE's existence.
I suppose I could join someone else's corp but then I would have to deal with corp taxes, asshatery, wardec's, and awoxing.
I suppose then you could cry and whine on the forums til the dev's forced everyone out of NPC corps, but then I'd just start a one man corp and disband every time someone war dec's me.
Sometimes putting up with other people is too much work.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
782
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 23:31:00 -
[74] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I'll have to admit. My main money maker is in an NPC corp. I sometimes interact with people, but always at arms length... With a 10 foot pole.
I suppose saying this will make someone invariably mad as they claim that NPC corps are the bane of EVE's existence.
I suppose I could join someone else's corp but then I would have to deal with corp taxes, asshatery, wardec's, and awoxing.
I suppose then you could cry and whine on the forums til the dev's forced everyone out of NPC corps, but then I'd just start a one man corp and disband every time someone war dec's me.
Sometimes putting up with other people is too much work.
Go nuts, nobody actually cares what you DO; we just care when you cry on the forums as the box you put yourself in gets smaller and smaller.
|
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 23:37:00 -
[75] - Quote
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll45/vahrokh/EvE/Misc/EvE_Box_back_zps234d30bc.jpg |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1686
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 23:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I'll have to admit. My main money maker is in an NPC corp. I sometimes interact with people, but always at arms length... With a 10 foot pole.
I suppose saying this will make someone invariably mad as they claim that NPC corps are the bane of EVE's existence.
I suppose I could join someone else's corp but then I would have to deal with corp taxes, asshatery, wardec's, and awoxing.
I suppose then you could cry and whine on the forums til the dev's forced everyone out of NPC corps, but then I'd just start a one man corp and disband every time someone war dec's me.
Sometimes putting up with other people is too much work. Go nuts, nobody actually cares what you DO; we just care when you cry on the forums as the box you put yourself in gets smaller and smaller.
No matter how many times you say it Varius, it keeps on being true (truth does that lol) .
I jsut sometimes feel sorry for people, namely the people who somehow need to think "it's all about me". It drives me a little crazy when someone pulls out that "you must want me to play differently" BS. I mean seriously, what does that say about a person that they could actually feel that way?
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Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
8134
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 00:24:00 -
[77] - Quote
First up, I'm mainly a solo hisec PvE/Industry player with 3 characters. Solo play is fine, it's the attitudes of some of the people who do it that are the problem, that can change with time, mine certainly has.
I came to Eve from a non MMO gaming background, I was shocked the first time I got killed and wailed in local, everybody enjoyed my tears 3 months later I realised that one day, I could be the one doing the killing. I left highsec, lived in wormholes for 2 years, exploded a bit, lived in lowsec for 6 months, did the group thing and exploded some more, but solo and highsec is how I prefer to play, for the moment. It doesn't stop me teaming up with like minded folk when an opportune target presents itself or to achieve something that requires teamwork though. A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
361
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 00:31:00 -
[78] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I'll have to admit. My main money maker is in an NPC corp. I sometimes interact with people, but always at arms length... With a 10 foot pole.
I suppose saying this will make someone invariably mad as they claim that NPC corps are the bane of EVE's existence.
I suppose I could join someone else's corp but then I would have to deal with corp taxes, asshatery, wardec's, and awoxing.
I suppose then you could cry and whine on the forums til the dev's forced everyone out of NPC corps, but then I'd just start a one man corp and disband every time someone war dec's me.
Sometimes putting up with other people is too much work. Go nuts, nobody actually cares what you DO; we just care when you cry on the forums as the box you put yourself in gets smaller and smaller. No matter how many times you say it Varius, it keeps on being true (truth does that lol) . I jsut sometimes feel sorry for people, namely the people who somehow need to think "it's all about me". It drives me a little crazy when someone pulls out that "you must want me to play differently" BS. I mean seriously, what does that say about a person that they could actually feel that way?
I don't know. I've seen a lot of mad players demand that NPC corps be nerfed. I don't care either way. I'm only one step away from running everything in a one man corp. But many of you seem like you want me to join an alliance and kowtow to the powers that be. Its as if there is a group of players are just incensed at the fact player plays solo.
As long as you say "I don't care about NPC corps and solo players" then we're all cool. Its just that I have seen the opposite on many occasions. As long as playing solo is viable, I'll keep playing. Who knows, I might have a seperate account with a SA forum account just waiting for the 3 months so I can get in. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
782
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 00:41:00 -
[79] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I don't know. I've seen a lot of mad players demand that NPC corps be nerfed. I don't care either way. I'm only one step away from running everything in a one man corp. But many of you seem like you want me to join an alliance and kowtow to the powers that be. Its as if there is a group of players are just incensed at the fact player plays solo.
As long as you say "I don't care about NPC corps and solo players" then we're all cool. Its just that I have seen the opposite on many occasions. As long as playing solo is viable, I'll keep playing. Who knows, I might have a seperate account with a SA forum account just waiting for the 3 months so I can get in.
Nonono, we don't care that you refuse to play interactively. That doesn't mean we don't support changes that hamper your playstyle.
Not caring what YOU do, does not equate to not caring how the game is structured.
I fully support the removal of NPC corps given that the few essentials they provide (new player stuff) is handled by new (better) mechanisms. I don't care whether that's a burden or boon to YOU.
|
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
361
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 00:45:00 -
[80] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote: That doesn't mean we don't support changes that hamper your playstyle.
So to borrow from my sig... So you hate the way I play and it makes you cry like a baby?
I suppose I should enjoy your tears while it lasts. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
782
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 00:48:00 -
[81] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Varius Xeral wrote: That doesn't mean we don't support changes that hamper your playstyle. So to borrow from my sig... So you hate the way I play and it makes you cry like a baby? I suppose I should enjoy your tears while it lasts.
No, it means precisely the opposite. Play however you want, I could not care less.
The fact that a change benefits or hinders you means nothing to me. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
361
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 01:02:00 -
[82] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Varius Xeral wrote: That doesn't mean we don't support changes that hamper your playstyle. So to borrow from my sig... So you hate the way I play and it makes you cry like a baby? I suppose I should enjoy your tears while it lasts. No, it means precisely the opposite. Play however you want, I could not care less. The fact that a change benefits or hinders you means nothing to me.
I don't know. The desire to see the way I play the game changed seems to mean a hatred towards how I play the game.
So you don't care how I feel, but you just feel strongly about what I do and it makes you get all mad and run to the forums saying "I don't like how the game is played this way! Waaah! Change it! Or else!"
Seriously, if you didn't care, why are you replying to me? Seems that you do.
Should I lick you face to get a gulp of those tasty tears of your demanding the game to be changed to suit yoru personal viewpoints? "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
782
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 01:20:00 -
[83] - Quote
Nope. I begrudge no player who plays the game within the eula and tos.
|
Eurydia Vespasian
nova insula mining and industrial
2386
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 01:31:00 -
[84] - Quote
i find myself playing "solo" more lately. though i'm never really alone because i am constantly talking in channels or sometimes comms and getting interaction that way.
but i play solo a lot because i do a lot of exploration and stuff....and don't like to share my isk making sites. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
361
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 01:37:00 -
[85] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Nope. I begrudge no player who plays the game within the eula and tos.
And I will quote you Varius Xeral wrote:That doesn't mean we don't support changes that hamper your playstyle.
So you want my playstyle to go away because it doesn't suit your tastes... I'm pretty sure that is a sign you hate that aspect of the game and therefore hate the way those players play the game.
Again, I can only see this as you being mad and angry about how others play the game because you don't want them to play the game in that way. So you come to the forums and put up a fuss about how X gameplay mechanic should be changed because of your personal opinion that no one should play the game like that.
I mean why would you want to hamper other player's playstyle if you didn't hate the way they played?
So mad. Its so sad.
Keep replying. I enjoy your excuses. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
782
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 01:42:00 -
[86] - Quote
It's not the same. People respond to the rules and incentives they are faced with, and as long as they're playing within the rules of the game, how they respond to those rules and incetives is totally up to them. That doesn't mean that the rules and incentives with which we all are faced, including myself, cannot be improved from my perspective. If my perspective comes at the cost of how someone else chooses to respond, too bad for them. I still care as little about how they play as I did before, which is nothing.
Unless you have something new to add this is my last response, as I feel I've made myself more than clear. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
651
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 01:53:00 -
[87] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:It's not the same. People respond to the rules and incentives they are faced with, and as long as they're playing within the rules of the game, how they respond to those rules and incetives is totally up to them. That doesn't mean that the rules and incentives with which we all are faced, including myself, cannot be improved from my perspective. If my perspective comes at the cost of how someone else chooses to respond, too bad for them. I still care as little about how they play as I did before, which is nothing.
Unless you have something new to add this is my last response, as I feel I've made myself more than clear. I'm not sure how a person who doesn't care how others play can even have an opinion on game changes. Having an opinion on changes to how people interact evidences an opinion on various types of interaction or lack thereof. You may not care how an individual plays persay, but you would have to find a certain interaction or means of avoiding it undesirable, thus you clearly do have some concern regarding our activities collectively. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
782
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 02:00:00 -
[88] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:I'm not sure how a person who doesn't care how others play can even have an opinion on game changes. Having an opinion on changes to how people interact evidences an opinion on various types of interaction or lack thereof. You may not care how an individual plays persay, but you would have to find a certain interaction or means of avoiding it undesirable, thus you clearly do have some concern regarding our activities collectively.
Absolutely. I care how the rules and incentives affect me, which other players may be the vessel for, but I don't begrudge the players because they are merely playing the game as I am, which is as best suits them. Therefore, I do not care how others play.
Not complicated. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1688
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 04:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't know. I've seen a lot of mad players demand that NPC corps be nerfed. I don't care either way. I'm only one step away from running everything in a one man corp. But many of you seem like you want me to join an alliance and kowtow to the powers that be. Its as if there is a group of players are just incensed at the fact player plays solo.
That's conflating issues. Being in an NPC corp isn't a "playstyle".
I don't like NPC corps because they artifically insolate players for consequneces other players have to deal with for very little cost. That's a game balance issue, not a play style issue. Pve vs pve, thats an example of a play style issue.
And none of us who think veteraqn players hiding in NPC corps is unfair care where the players go (whether it's to a one man corp or some big alliance) so long as they are then exposed to the same situations everyone else in high sec are. Even within npc corps, npc corps are unfair (mission runners and explorers pay taxes, miners and haulers don't).
Wishing for equitible situations among customers isn't "caring about how someone plays or where in space they live". My dislike of npc corps is philosophical I would dislike Unicorns crapping isk just as much.
Quote: As long as you say "I don't care about NPC corps and solo players" then we're all cool. Its just that I have seen the opposite on many occasions. As long as playing solo is viable, I'll keep playing. Who knows, I might have a seperate account with a SA forum account just waiting for the 3 months so I can get in.
You have a very warped way of seeing things. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1688
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 04:22:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: I'm not sure how a person who doesn't care how others play can even have an opinion on game changes.
Very easily. How someone plays and issues with game rules are seperate things.
I don't know of one person who cares that I do incursions or faciton warfare (no one ever snet me a mail saying "yo dude, FW missioning is all "alternative lifestyle" and you shouldn't do it).
They (and I) DID care what the former inbalances those things had did to the game, which is why they got nerfed (bad for me personally,good for the game in general). Just because i liked to farm FW LP doesn't mean that was good for the game.
Some people are so bloody self centered that they can't imagine a situation that is good for them could need nerfing. CCP is about to nerf my beloved Forsaken Hubs in oddessy, and eventualy they are gonna nerf my even more beloved Machariel (they've already said so). I don't LIKE it, but I accept it as just the way it has to be.
Many many people couldn't imagine saying what I just typed lol. |
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Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
111
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 04:59:00 -
[91] - Quote
I like Eve hard-mode
In all seriousness I don't have the time it takes to commit to a corp at a level that I myself would find acceptable with RL constraints. My log in time is sporadic at best and even then I just want to get going with whatever it is I want to do in the universe and not have any hold-ups, it's not so much a lack of patience but a lack of available time and effort to give. I have actually grown fond of being solo 90% of the time, roaming thru system after system looking for a juicy fight all the while avoiding traps, blobs and hot-drops. I have got quite good at surviving in some of the most treacherous parts of the Eve universe and have learned things that you just can't get when your locked down in a corp and have responsibilities in it. I have flown in fleets with over 500 players and fleets with as little as two and I have always learned more in smaller fleets so when your solo and there is no safety net, no back-up, and no second chances everything little thing you do matters and for some strange twisted reason I love that. The rush is unmatched by anything else I have experienced in Eve.
At any rate the main reasons I fly solo is time and I like the thrill of me against the universe.
Oderint Dum Metuant |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4845
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 05:18:00 -
[92] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Who knows, I might have a seperate account with a SA forum account just waiting for the 3 months so I can get in. I'm fairly sure people can tell when your sole purpose for dropping :tenbux: and posting on SA is to join Goons. I highly doubt they take kindly to such behavior. |
Elysium Foxx
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 05:47:00 -
[93] - Quote
I also enjoy playing with myself.
No, seriously, I REALLY enjoy playing with myself ! |
lollerwaffle
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
41
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 06:08:00 -
[94] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Nope. I begrudge no player who plays the game within the eula and tos.
And I will quote you Varius Xeral wrote:That doesn't mean we don't support changes that hamper your playstyle. So you want my playstyle to go away because it doesn't suit your tastes... I'm pretty sure that is a sign you hate that aspect of the game and therefore hate the way those players play the game. Again, I can only see this as you being mad and angry about how others play the game because you don't want them to play the game in that way. So you come to the forums and put up a fuss about how X gameplay mechanic should be changed because of your personal opinion that no one should play the game like that. I mean why would you want to hamper other player's playstyle if you didn't hate the way they played? So mad. Its so sad. Keep replying. I enjoy your excuses.
Oh wow, you're so desperate to play the victim card that reading comprehension goes straight out the window.
Actually, English might not be your first language so I can see where you might have trouble there. In any case, never stop trying to reap nonexistent tears
Well played, good troll etc.etc. I fell for it. |
Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 06:18:00 -
[95] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Most of those people who say "this is a multiplayer game go back to WoW" are the ones who tend to take glee in ganking, scamming, etc. and exhibit an inability to get over themselves.
The rest of the players, regardless of what the do, do whatever they want, and don't care what anybody else does. They might play in groups, they might play solo, they probably do both..
Most important of all, they don't sit there saying "Eve is...." and then try to adhere to it like some kind of religion.
Self-interest and not giving a rats ass what anybody thinks - that's a sandbox. That's also an exercise in liberty.
Sometimes I suspect that the "Eve is... and therefore all must adhere to it" crowd are the kids who grew up watching too many political speeches where they were sold on the virtues of seeking out causes "greater than themselves". Well, whatever one's opinion on any cause, I doubt a video game is one of them.
To get all zen on ya, EVE is what it is, exactly where it needs to be and every player is a part of that, and part of the crazy evolution of the community. Compared to other netizens EVE players are way deeper into the workings of the game and how to use it to create what we want. What we need from CCP is more tools for that to make it an even more dynamic world, and they seem to focusing on that, especially CCP Seagull. Love that girl. Just had that "game is in good hands" feeling when she was talking.
Solo or groupy, the thing to do is just dive into the game and follow your interests and instincts. Don't get hooked by one thing. Just explore the game. And you'll find what EVE is...heheh |
Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 06:32:00 -
[96] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:And as far as the state of PvE is concerned Angang Ostus... the problem with creating whole new PvE content that people can run by themselves is that it will be mapped out and become repetitive in the space of 6 months or less. Then the DEVs are back at square one. Rinse and repeat.
Oh I hear you. Nature of the beast. I just think time is a factor and some current content has gotten dusty. It's time for the "Rinse" part of the cycle. I believe there does need to be a cycle of PVE iteration and refreshing. It would be healthy for the game. It need not even be every year. I think what we're feeling now is the pressure (or enui) from that dust buildup.
ShahFluffers wrote:Whether some like it or not... content that encourages group interaction and conflict is the way this game is going to evolve... simply because it's more future proof than anything else. It's also FAR more entertaining.
Yeah EVE is real heheh. It keeps getting better and better. |
Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 06:34:00 -
[97] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I'll have to admit. My main money maker is in an NPC corp. I sometimes interact with people, but always at arms length... With a 10 foot pole.
I suppose saying this will make someone invariably mad as they claim that NPC corps are the bane of EVE's existence.
I suppose I could join someone else's corp but then I would have to deal with corp taxes, asshatery, wardec's, and awoxing.
I suppose then you could cry and whine on the forums til the dev's forced everyone out of NPC corps, but then I'd just start a one man corp and disband every time someone war dec's me.
Sometimes putting up with other people is too much work. Go nuts, nobody actually cares what you DO; we just care when you cry on the forums as the box you put yourself in gets smaller and smaller.
Good for those True Stories. "Jita Fever" |
Angang Ostus
Shooting Red Crosses
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 06:43:00 -
[98] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I don't know. I've seen a lot of mad players demand that NPC corps be nerfed. I don't care either way. I'm only one step away from running everything in a one man corp. But many of you seem like you want me to join an alliance and kowtow to the powers that be. Its as if there is a group of players are just incensed at the fact player plays solo.
As long as you say "I don't care about NPC corps and solo players" then we're all cool. Its just that I have seen the opposite on many occasions. As long as playing solo is viable, I'll keep playing. Who knows, I might have a seperate account with a SA forum account just waiting for the 3 months so I can get in. Nonono, we don't care that you refuse to play interactively. That doesn't mean we don't support changes that hamper your playstyle. Not caring what YOU do, does not equate to not caring how the game is structured. I fully support the removal of NPC corps given that the few essentials they provide (new player stuff) is handled by new (better) mechanisms. I don't care whether that's a burden or boon to YOU.
You should be able to wardec NPC corps and pursue wartargets into systems that have security level equal to or lesser than your corp's standings with that NPC corp. Of course your corp then loses standings with the NPC corp, and the rate of that can be carefully set by CCP. Adds a whole new huge dimension into high sec PVP! What do you guys think?
(Oh and NPC corp members could know what systems they're safe in just by checking your corp's standings with theirs! AND it could serve as a great way to give noobs an urgent reason to join a player corp. OMG somebody from CCP please read this!) |
Tub Chil
Last Men Standing
52
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 07:00:00 -
[99] - Quote
I play solo in my one man corp because sometimes i can't play for prolonged periods and corps require more dedication. I basically go for roams in back rise, scan systems with some WT-s, go to plex and sit there. or attack WT's plex. if they fight me fine, if not i get LP anyway.
I think FW has best environment for solo play, people fly mostly frigates and most of the time you can find a fight.
Solo play does not give you advantage, people try to blob you, many people will engage only if they feel they have superior ship, KB goes to crap etc. but it's not that bad. |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
505
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 08:27:00 -
[100] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:Recently I've noticed a bit more emphasis on the forums about players who play eve 'solo'. From my impression from the forums people tend to dislike soloers (I've read 'eve is a multiplayer game, go back to...' quite a few times lately) so I'm interested to get a bit of a feedback as to what people do and don't like about soloers or solo activities in the game.
I think there is a clear distinction that needs to be made here. Playing solo in a multiplayer game can mean two things;
1) Playing on your own with other people around that can affect your game play
2) Playing on your own with no other people around or only people that cannot affect your game play.
For EVE, I think most people refer to solo-play as "1" above. However, sometimes people bring up discussions and ideas that fall more into the "2" category above and it is these people that are often told "this is a multiplayer game".
'Multiplayer' does not mean you have to play with other players but it does not necessarily mean you can play the game devoid of their presence and affects. Looks like the yellow quafe shirt is more popular than I thought ;) |
|
Anselm Toralen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 08:35:00 -
[101] - Quote
I can see no harm in solo playing. It's MMO sandbox so they contribute to the game anyway, though in their own way. |
Harry Forever
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 08:40:00 -
[102] - Quote
solo against all others, sure they get scared OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:23:00 -
[103] - Quote
I started playing in September 2012 and have been solo the whole time. Yes, I am still in an NPC corp. Am I a loser for it? I don't think so though I am sure a lot of you do. It is what it is.
I've played other games with corps and found I did not have the time or inclination to work with the corps, nor did I care for the drama. So, I log in to EvE and do whatever I feel like or have time to do - run missions, mine, explore - whatever. It works for me. If I see a fleet formed and fighting another, I may or may not jump in and help out. If I see a miner in the middle of getting jumped by either PvE or PvP and I think I have a chance, I'll jump in and help out.
However, unlike some I have read on these forums, I begrudge nearly no one for the way they choose to play EvE. Some people like roaming in groups, some don't. Some like PvP, some like PvE. Still others just like to mine or explore in peace and not fire a shot. EvE accommodates all those play styles. I like that.
About the only "play style" I begrudge is gate camping. No matter what game you play, sitting on spawn points surprising players before they can react is just a cheap and easy kill. But, even then, there are those who do the same in real life so I just see it as a hazard to either avoid or try to work around.
I would like to see some changes to the difficulty levels, though. In anything above 0.5 space the NPC "attacks" are little more than annoyances. Any player who chose to put $100 into PLEX can easily deal with anything hisec can throw at you. Having more than 3 or 4 frigates thrown at you every few minutes while mining would make life in hisec much more interesting. But, I think the so-called carebears would SCREAM. I'd see it as an opportunity for PvE players to patrol asteroid belts keeping carebears safe and snug.
I also think, though, that the transition from 0.5 space to 0.4 is too drastic. When I started I figured that being in 1.0 space would be like living in a super-safe part of the city or suburbs while getting down into 0.1 space is more like the most dangerous parts of the inner city. Anything 0.0 or below is just the wild, lawless frontier. I'd like to see CONCORD all the way down to 0.1 but its force size and response time would be such that clever players would easily get away with their "crime". I guess you could look at it as in 1.0 space, it is a 100% certainty you will pay for a crime while in 0.1 you have a 90% chance you'd get away with it. Raise the difficulty in hisec while adjusting it in lowsec would make a more logical progression.
I also like the way they're going to change the mining yields in Odyssey. As it is, there isn't much incentive to venture into lowsec or nullsec space. I like the idea that the best yields and ISK-making potential should exist in lowsec and nullsec. Risk=
With regards to solo vs group play and how things like the new exploration model benefits a group, well, isn't that how it is in real life? Doing something in a group is generally better/easier but you have to divide up the spoils. If I want to stay solo, I'll just figure out how to make the best out of the new loot drop mechanic.
I don't feel penalized by my game play nor do I think that group players necessarily have any unrealistic advantages. Yeah, a group ganking me will pop and pod me easily. But, they have to divide up the loot. Less each in return for an easier kill. If I get jumped by a group, I expect to get popped and podded, but I will take as many of them with me to the clone tanks as I can. It's all part of the game. |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
374
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:30:00 -
[104] - Quote
I don't have the playtime to be in a corp. I refuse to burden others with my lack of attention to the game. By the same token, when I finally do get in game, I want to do what I want, not get roped into something else. Corps are awesome if you have the time and motivation to participate though. Solo Eve simply suits my lifestyle. |
Lost True
Paradise project
2167
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:36:00 -
[105] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:I don't have the playtime to be in a corp. I refuse to burden others with my lack of attention to the game. By the same token, when I finally do get in game, I want to do what I want, not get roped into something else. Corps are awesome if you have the time and motivation to participate though. Solo Eve simply suits my lifestyle. +1 in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much? [-á-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦] -£-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦ -¦-+-Ç-+-+-Ç-¦-å-+-Å Transtellar |
UKBigWolf
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:39:00 -
[106] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:I don't have the playtime to be in a corp. I refuse to burden others with my lack of attention to the game. By the same token, when I finally do get in game, I want to do what I want, not get roped into something else. Corps are awesome if you have the time and motivation to participate though. Solo Eve simply suits my lifestyle.
Ofc, there are some corps out there that let you join and still solo, you simply are there for having like-minded people in corp chat Some of these don't have taxes as well |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
507
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:45:00 -
[107] - Quote
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:About the only "play style" I begrudge is gate camping. No matter what game you play, sitting on spawn points surprising players before they can react is just a cheap and easy kill. But, even then, there are those who do the same in real life so I just see it as a hazard to either avoid or try to work around.
I like your post but there are a couple of points I'd like to come back on. The first is the above comment about gate camping. It is a valid tactic for protecting or locking down a system or just getting kills but there are many ways to combat gate camping.
- The EVE in game map tells you about jumps/pilots/kills/podding in the last hour, it can help you avoid many camps.
- You can plan routes to avoid common entry points to lawless space. It's often the obvious ones that are camped.
- You can use sites like zkillboard and dotlan for intel
- You can use the cloak+wmd trick to avoid all but the most well put together high-war/low sec camps.
- You can crash the gate and jump back through - though I don't claim this to be a failsafe gate camp exist strategy
- Certain ships (covops, T3+cloak+interdictionnulli) are designed to pass gatecamps more easily
- You can scout yourself in an interceptor to look for camps and return in a different ship, character or account
- You can fit a bunch of warp core stabilisers (high-war/low sec)
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote: I also think, though, that the transition from 0.5 space to 0.4 is too drastic. When I started I figured that being in 1.0 space would be like living in a super-safe part of the city or suburbs while getting down into 0.1 space is more like the most dangerous parts of the inner city. Anything 0.0 or below is just the wild, lawless frontier. I'd like to see CONCORD all the way down to 0.1 but its force size and response time would be such that clever players would easily get away with their "crime". I guess you could look at it as in 1.0 space, it is a 100% certainty you will pay for a crime while in 0.1 you have a 90% chance you'd get away with it. Raise the difficulty in hisec while adjusting it in lowsec would make a more logical progression.
I don't agree with CONCORD to 0.1 but you have raised an interesting point. There is somewhat of a hard line between 0.5 and 0.4. Part of this is by design to help players clearly see where they can be attacked without concord intervention. Of course there are other factors like the response time of CONCORD dropping from 1.0>0.5 and the reduction of sentry guns from 0.4>0.1.
Making 0.4 'safer' would disaffect one group of people whereas making 0.5 more 'dangerous' would disaffect another. I'm not sure what could realistically be done. Lower CONCORD response time in 0.5 even further and increase sentry guns in 0.4 more? I dunno, you'd really have too look very carefully at the map and how systems are used before making that kind of change. Looks like the yellow quafe shirt is more popular than I thought ;) |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1692
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:46:00 -
[108] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:I don't have the playtime to be in a corp. I refuse to burden others with my lack of attention to the game. By the same token, when I finally do get in game, I want to do what I want, not get roped into something else. Corps are awesome if you have the time and motivation to participate though. Solo Eve simply suits my lifestyle.
This is a really common misconception about player corps.
My corp asks me to do...exactly nothing. Zilch, nada. I do as I please, if I see someone needs help (need boosts for some mining or ratting fleet, needs a cyno etc etc) I do it, IF I want to.
There are LOTS or player corps like mine, in fact mine is more likely the model for an EVE corp than the draconian "control everything you do" type corps.
"Soloing" isn't a bad thing, but making silly excuses for not being in a player corp (instead of just saying "i don't like being bothered by other people) is kind of a bad thing. No one cares why you don't do something, do as you please.
|
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1116
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:53:00 -
[109] - Quote
Play the way you want to.
Just always bear in mind that in this MMO, basically anything goes.
Anything else said about solo play is just smoke and mirrors. Play the way you want to in this game, just remember there are many people in the game who do not think the way you do and will go out of their way to convince you that you are "doing it wrong".
All I can share with you is that from my experience, solo play is nowhere near as enjoyable as being in a group of like-minded players. The game becomes so much better, so much more interactive and exciting.
My 2c worth o/ Personnel Division Director --áBene Gesserit Chapterhouse
"The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another." - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Miyamoto Tekitsu
Bad Wolf Armaments
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:54:00 -
[110] - Quote
So what your saying is you really should be social, join a corp and interact with other players. But most corps don't request you participate or contribute in any way. A bit like playing solo with an extra chat window then.... |
|
Rayzilla Zaraki
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 13:12:00 -
[111] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:I like your post but there are a couple of points I'd like to come back on. The first is the above comment about gate camping. It is a valid tactic for protecting or locking down a system or just getting kills but there are many ways to combat gate camping.
- The EVE in game map tells you about jumps/pilots/kills/podding in the last hour, it can help you avoid many camps.
- You can plan routes to avoid common entry points to lawless space. It's often the obvious ones that are camped.
- You can use sites like zkillboard and dotlan for intel
- You can use the cloak+wmd trick to avoid all but the most well put together high-war/low sec camps.
- You can crash the gate and jump back through - though I don't claim this to be a failsafe gate camp exist strategy
- Certain ships (covops, T3+cloak+interdictionnulli) are designed to pass gatecamps more easily
- You can scout yourself in an interceptor to look for camps and return in a different ship, character or account
- You can fit a bunch of warp core stabilisers (high-war/low sec)
Gate camping itself is actually a very risky business. If you sit still agressing every solo ship that comes through a gate at will thenyou open yourself up for getting hot-dropped by a larger entity. Even PL with their mass of low-sec smartbombing Titans actually lost one because people saw it as an opportunity. ( http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12761765). Gate camping is by no means an easy-win option.
I know there are tactical reasons for gate camping, but for the most part no matter what game you play it is usually players farming PvP. They're carebearing in their own, violent way. But, it is what it is. :)
I have figured out ways around the gate camps, whether it be avoiding some gates at some times altogether or finding ways to sneak past the campers and have a FOB behind the camped systems. Once through the gateway systems from hisec to lowsec, there isn't too much to worry about when it comes to gate camps.
Wacktopia wrote: I don't agree with CONCORD to 0.1 but you have raised an interesting point. There is somewhat of a hard line between 0.5 and 0.4. Part of this is by design to help players clearly see where they can be attacked without concord intervention. Of course there are other factors like the response time of CONCORD dropping from 1.0>0.5 and the reduction of sentry guns from 0.4>0.1.
Making 0.4 'safer' would disaffect one group of people whereas making 0.5 more 'dangerous' would disaffect another. I'm not sure what could realistically be done. Lower CONCORD response time in 0.5 even further and increase sentry guns in 0.4 more? I dunno, you'd really have too look very carefully at the map and how systems are used before making that kind of change.
I am not sure I got what was in my head up on the screen quite the way I wanted. If you look at how it would work in real life (ugh), a police force in a bad area would have protection zones - their own offices, businesses and entry/exit points. Around stations would be pretty safe as should stargates but if you want to go to the asteroid fields and mine the best you should hope for is that the guy who just popped you will have a repair bill courtesy of CONCORD.
It is definitely a hard line between 0.5 and 0.4. Its practically a different game to newer players like myself. It wasn't until I figured out the benefits of a Covert Ops ship that I was able to learn how to avoid gate campers. Thanks to that nifty little cloak I figured out a lot.
I haven't explored everywhere nor have I been playing long enough to have the full understanding that most players have, but that hard line at 0.4 doesn't make much sense considering that security levels go well below 0.0. Maybe its my OCD talking, but that hard line should be between 0.0 and -0.1, shouldn't it? I mean, you see lowsec/nullsec folks sometimes complain about those areas being deserted. Maybe the increased value of the ores in those areas will encourage players into low and null space. But, I can tell you, that up until the point where I could start to use a Covert Ops cloak, I figured that, as a solo player, space below 0.5 would be a place I'd never see. I am sure that sentiment is shared by a lot of newer players. I am sure some are dissuaded by this and never get to the point I reached to figure out how to enjoy all of New Eden.
Again, the game is what it is. If CCP wants to make the security progression smoother and more logical, great. Especially if it works. But, if the game stays as is, no problem there either. I'll adapt and figure it out. |
Singoth
The Scope Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 13:14:00 -
[112] - Quote
Just because it is a multiplayer game, does not mean you should be 100% reliant on other players in order to accomplish anything in the game. No, I would like to see EVE players becoming more self-reliant instead.
If anything, improving on solo-play will only ENHANCE the multiplayer experience as well as solo-play. But only enhancing multi-play will not improve solo-play at all. Less yappin', more zappin'! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1694
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 13:20:00 -
[113] - Quote
Miyamoto Tekitsu wrote:So what your saying is you really should be social, join a corp and interact with other players. But most corps don't request you participate or contribute in any way. A bit like playing solo with an extra chat window then....
None of that was what I said lol.
|
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
361
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 13:52:00 -
[114] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Miyamoto Tekitsu wrote:So what your saying is you really should be social, join a corp and interact with other players. But most corps don't request you participate or contribute in any way. A bit like playing solo with an extra chat window then.... None of that was what I said lol.
The most complaint I see from joing a corp is that it dies within a few months leaving you with a 10% corp tax with the priveledge of chatting by yourself. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
786
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:02:00 -
[115] - Quote
Yeah, hisec corps are generally one of those elements that don't make sense. A lot of cost or potential cost with little or often no benefit.
Without a gameplay benefit to membership, the state of hisec corps are not a surprise, nor are people's generally negative responses to them. |
Miyamoto Tekitsu
Bad Wolf Armaments
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:29:00 -
[116] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: This is a really common misconception about player corps.
My corp asks me to do...exactly nothing. Zilch, nada. I do as I please, if I see someone needs help (need boosts for some mining or ratting fleet, needs a cyno etc etc) I do it, IF I want to.
There are LOTS or player corps like mine, in fact mine is more likely the model for an EVE corp than the draconian "control everything you do" type corps.
That is exactly what your telling people to do, join a corp then do nothing but gain a chat window and some tax.
If your not going to contribute to a corp in any way, you are either just in it for the social (same as adding a chat window, just without the corp tax) or your there to leach corp assests. If I have missed something then please tell me. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
362
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:32:00 -
[117] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Yeah, hisec corps are generally one of those elements that don't make sense. A lot of cost or potential cost with little or often no benefit.
Without a gameplay benefit to membership, the state of hisec corps are not a surprise, nor are people's generally negative responses to them.
Something we can actually agree on. Hi-sec corps as a means to get players to interact is quite useless.
The only good thing that comes out of hi-sec corps is usually corp theft and awoxing. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1695
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:36:00 -
[118] - Quote
Miyamoto Tekitsu wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: This is a really common misconception about player corps.
My corp asks me to do...exactly nothing. Zilch, nada. I do as I please, if I see someone needs help (need boosts for some mining or ratting fleet, needs a cyno etc etc) I do it, IF I want to.
There are LOTS or player corps like mine, in fact mine is more likely the model for an EVE corp than the draconian "control everything you do" type corps.
That is exactly what your telling people to do, join a corp then do nothing but gain a chat window and some tax. If your not going to contribute to a corp in any way, you are either just in it for the social (same as adding a chat window, just without the corp tax) or your there to leach corp assests. If I have missed something then please tell me.
What you are missing is English lol.
I said they don't ASK/MAKE me do anything, i do as I please. "As I please" a lot of times includes moving ships in my carrier for people, lighting cynos, occasionally pvping, teaching new players the ins and outs of null sec PVE etc etc.
You are confusing "they don't make me" with "I don't contribute". That's what you are missing. I see it as a duty to my friends to help out from time to time, but they can't ORDER me to be online at a certain time for certain things.
And i'm not telling anyone to do anything, if they want to be in an npc the game allows for that...I simply think the game should stop allowing for that lol.
|
Ivan Ward
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:39:00 -
[119] - Quote
A descent way to play this game solo is to join a large corporation/alliance with your own agenda in mind. Play it out well so they lose they whole sovereignty space over night and in the mess that comes you goes out as rich as a bee.
So what's wrong with playing this game solo? "Hot pilots we have problems too, we're just like you." |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1695
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:41:00 -
[120] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Yeah, hisec corps are generally one of those elements that don't make sense. A lot of cost or potential cost with little or often no benefit.
Without a gameplay benefit to membership, the state of hisec corps are not a surprise, nor are people's generally negative responses to them. Something we can actually agree on. Hi-sec corps as a means to get players to interact is quite useless. The only good thing that comes out of hi-sec corps is usually corp theft and awoxing.
The wasn't my experience at all. My 1st player corp was called "Dark Harvest" and it was a ery small group of high sec mission runners. It was fun to run missions with people instead of alone but i always had the option to do it alone if I wanted.
Me and a Dark Harvest corpmate eventually went on to form our own corp and later joined faction warfare as we we're afraid of just jumping out to some null sec group. I met more good folks there, ended up in a corp with some of them and the next thing you know I'm in null sec fighting Goons, Russians and various types of yummy NPC pirates.
Most people with bad corp experiences are either people who picked bad corps in the 1st place, or are anti-social loner types who wouldn't fit in with any group of people under any circumstances.
|
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Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
374
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:58:00 -
[121] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:I don't have the playtime to be in a corp. I refuse to burden others with my lack of attention to the game. By the same token, when I finally do get in game, I want to do what I want, not get roped into something else. Corps are awesome if you have the time and motivation to participate though. Solo Eve simply suits my lifestyle. This is a really common misconception about player corps. My corp asks me to do...exactly nothing. Zilch, nada. I do as I please, if I see someone needs help (need boosts for some mining or ratting fleet, needs a cyno etc etc) I do it, IF I want to. There are LOTS or player corps like mine, in fact mine is more likely the model for an EVE corp than the draconian "control everything you do" type corps. "Soloing" isn't a bad thing, but making silly excuses for not being in a player corp (instead of just saying "i don't like being bothered by other people) is kind of a bad thing. No one cares why you don't do something, do as you please.
What is the point if you aren't cooperating with one another? I've been in corps, and it was a lot of fun, but I'm not going to join one at this point, just because I don't play much anymore. I'm not insecure about that. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
599
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 15:44:00 -
[122] - Quote
TL/DR: People that suck at PVP, so don't want to fight people that are actually reading and willing to PVP, look at high sec carebears as easy targets should only exist to let them pad their kill board stats and grow their epeen. They whine and whine and whine that the high sec carebears refuse to be easy targets, and whine, whine, whine about the game mechanics that protect the high sec carebears.
Here is my take:
Some people suck at ship to ship PvP against other players that are looking to PvP. These suck PvPers fly around high sec and see all these PVEers and think, "Now here are people we can beat up on". They war dec some of these industrial types, thinking "Easy kills", but then those PVEers don't undock.
SO, the suck PvPers think, we'll just wait them out. If we keep the war deck going, they'll eventually be forced to come out and fight.
What actually happens is the PVEers, that have no interest in PVP, simply drop out of player corp, to NPC corp.
The suck PvPers, come to the forums and whine about how much it sucks that they can't gets lots of easy kills of industrialists. They whine about local. They whine about CONCORD. They whine about NPC corps. They whine, whine, whine that these solo players won't come out and be easy kills..
When the industrialists respond that if you want to PvP, go find other players that want to PvP, the suck PvPers then whine that the problem is all the casual, solo, PVEers, that refuse to be their easy victims.
The problem is not the solo players. The problem is all the people that want the solo players to be their easy victims. |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
761
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 15:51:00 -
[123] - Quote
10/10 funny post. I'm glad people don't really feel this way though, that would just be insane. Haha, imagine that... Oh god. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
362
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:22:00 -
[124] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote: When the industrialists respond that if you want to PvP, go find other players that want to PvP, the suck PvPers then whine that the problem is all the casual, solo, PVEers, that refuse to be their easy victims.
The problem is not the solo players. The problem is all the people that want the solo players to be their easy victims.
10/10 funny post. I'm glad people don't really feel this way though, that would just be crazy. Imagine that...
I don't want to raise the ire of my follow capsuleers, but there are plenty of people who have asked for the ability to "force people to undock". Maybe they were joking, but I'm pretty sure deep down they wanted this change. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
764
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:27:00 -
[125] - Quote
Well you can't force people to undock, but at the same time, you can't force people to go PvP somewhere (or someone) else. People are allowed to bring PvP to any part of the galaxy and to any undocked player they wish. Oh god. |
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
111
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 21:14:00 -
[126] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:TL/DR: People that suck at PVP, so don't want to fight people that are actually reading and willing to PVP, look at high sec carebears as easy targets should only exist to let them pad their kill board stats and grow their epeen. They whine and whine and whine that the high sec carebears refuse to be easy targets, and whine, whine, whine about the game mechanics that protect the high sec carebears.
Here is my take:
Some people suck at ship to ship PvP against other players that are looking to PvP. These suck PvPers fly around high sec and see all these PVEers and think, "Now here are people we can beat up on". They war dec some of these industrial types, thinking "Easy kills", but then those PVEers don't undock.
SO, the suck PvPers think, we'll just wait them out. If we keep the war deck going, they'll eventually be forced to come out and fight.
What actually happens is the PVEers, that have no interest in PVP, simply drop out of player corp, to NPC corp.
The suck PvPers, come to the forums and whine about how much it sucks that they can't gets lots of easy kills of industrialists. They whine about local. They whine about CONCORD. They whine about NPC corps. They whine, whine, whine that these solo players won't come out and be easy kills..
When the industrialists respond that if you want to PvP, go find other players that want to PvP, the suck PvPers then whine that the problem is all the casual, solo, PVEers, that refuse to be their easy victims.
The problem is not the solo players. The problem is all the people that want the solo players to be their easy victims.
This is actually more true than ppl want to admit, I know first hand it is because I have been in a few of those types of corps untill I realized what was actually going on. However you will always have those who pick on the weak and to be honest it adds alot of depth to Eve.
Oderint Dum Metuant |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
601
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 21:21:00 -
[127] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Well you can't force people to undock, but at the same time, you can't force people to go PvP somewhere (or someone) else. People are allowed to bring PvP to any part of the galaxy and to any undocked player they wish.
True.
If you are willing to suicide gank, and eat the standings loss, then have at it. And if this starts happening too much, and causes carebears to start quitting, then CCP will alter the mechanics to reduce the amount of random high sec ganking to a level that doesn't drive away the carebears.
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MoonWatcher Overt
BoneThrowers
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 22:53:00 -
[128] - Quote
for me i work in a corp rl and don't wanna be just another number at play also haven't got time for corp chat as less isk etc as never know how long on for or alternative loose assoc is solo play anyhow and when ganked usually pirate gives u the low down too = very casual very cool very eve just being whatever can mainline that vibe anytime love it know theres more but there is always time being older and all
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
437
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:16:00 -
[129] - Quote
MoonWatcher Overt wrote:for me i work in a corp rl and don't wanna be just another number at play also haven't got time for corp chat as less isk etc as never know how long on for or alternative loose assoc is solo play anyhow and when ganked usually pirate gives u the low down too = very casual very cool very eve just being whatever can mainline that vibe anytime love it know theres more but there is always time being older and all
Drugs are bad, mkay? |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
769
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:55:00 -
[130] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:CCP will alter the mechanics to reduce the amount of random high sec ganking to a level that doesn't drive away the carebears. I doubt that. They didn't do anything about Burn Jita and I don't think suicide ganking will go too far beyond the scale of that. I honestly don't think CCP cares if carebears quit. Oh god. |
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Miyamoto Tekitsu
Bad Wolf Armaments
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 07:26:00 -
[131] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Miyamoto Tekitsu wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: This is a really common misconception about player corps.
My corp asks me to do...exactly nothing. Zilch, nada. I do as I please, if I see someone needs help (need boosts for some mining or ratting fleet, needs a cyno etc etc) I do it, IF I want to.
There are LOTS or player corps like mine, in fact mine is more likely the model for an EVE corp than the draconian "control everything you do" type corps.
That is exactly what your telling people to do, join a corp then do nothing but gain a chat window and some tax. If your not going to contribute to a corp in any way, you are either just in it for the social (same as adding a chat window, just without the corp tax) or your there to leach corp assests. If I have missed something then please tell me. What you are missing is English lol. I said they don't ASK/MAKE me do anything, i do as I please. "As I please" a lot of times includes moving ships in my carrier for people, lighting cynos, occasionally pvping, teaching new players the ins and outs of null sec PVE etc etc. You are confusing "they don't make me" with "I don't contribute". That's what you are missing. I see it as a duty to my friends to help out from time to time, but they can't ORDER me to be online at a certain time for certain things. And i'm not telling anyone to do anything, if they want to be in an npc the game allows for that...I simply think the game should stop allowing for that lol.
There is nothing wrong with my Enlgish.
you /yo-Po/ Pronoun
Used to refer to the person or people that the speaker is addressing: "are you listening?"; "I love you".
I'm not just addressing you, but all those reading the thread.
So I will ask my question again. If you are not going to contribute to a corp in any way, why should you join one?
|
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
769
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 07:29:00 -
[132] - Quote
Miyamoto Tekitsu wrote:If you are not going to contribute to a corp in any way, why should you join one?
10% tax is a contribution.
Oh god. |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
103
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:23:00 -
[133] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:Recently I've noticed a bit more emphasis on the forums about players who play eve 'solo'. From my impression from the forums people tend to dislike soloers (I've read 'eve is a multiplayer game, go back to...' quite a few times lately)
Hi OP
I think I started a recent rumble by posting that odyssey was clearly a socialist plot. Ok a bit of a wild headline but pointing out that Exploration is clearly described as solo on the EVE homepage personality test - but the info available on Odyssey suggests that this profession is now in the spotlight for 're-education'
There is one particular trained attack dog who stalks the forums, trying to eradicate all 'incorrect thought' by constantly equating SOLO with ANTI-SOCIAL, and by extension ANTI-EVE.
I would suggest that you ignore these posts as I suspect that they are encouraged by CCP - this character just never stops attacking anyone with a contrary view, using remarks that associate your point of view with some degenerate 'types' that need eradication.
BUT - there is an undeniable fact that EVE is multiplayer and we choose to be at a disadvantage by not teaming or joining an organization.
The reasons we do so are legion, but one thing is abundantly clear - if you have at least one PVP kill in EVE you are not solo - you are multiplayer.
This obvious fact though is usually distorted by some regular pro-alliance and blob people who laugh about high sec tears - even when many of us are keen lo-sec pvpers.
i certainly don't want the game easier for solo, it's my choice, but there's a sense that the cracks in the floorboards and spaces between the walls where you are allowed to play are being filled in and plastered over.
CCP have the figures and CCP will do what they want, if the environment gets tougher for 'solo' then we find a way.
I posted that CCP advertise EVE as total freedom and a choice to be who you want to be but then start to dictate how you should fly.
They still have my sub.:-)
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lollerwaffle
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
43
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:52:00 -
[134] - Quote
Miyamoto Tekitsu wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Miyamoto Tekitsu wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: This is a really common misconception about player corps.
My corp asks me to do...exactly nothing. Zilch, nada. I do as I please, if I see someone needs help (need boosts for some mining or ratting fleet, needs a cyno etc etc) I do it, IF I want to.
There are LOTS or player corps like mine, in fact mine is more likely the model for an EVE corp than the draconian "control everything you do" type corps.
That is exactly what your telling people to do, join a corp then do nothing but gain a chat window and some tax. If your not going to contribute to a corp in any way, you are either just in it for the social (same as adding a chat window, just without the corp tax) or your there to leach corp assests. If I have missed something then please tell me. What you are missing is English lol. I said they don't ASK/MAKE me do anything, i do as I please. "As I please" a lot of times includes moving ships in my carrier for people, lighting cynos, occasionally pvping, teaching new players the ins and outs of null sec PVE etc etc. You are confusing "they don't make me" with "I don't contribute". That's what you are missing. I see it as a duty to my friends to help out from time to time, but they can't ORDER me to be online at a certain time for certain things. And i'm not telling anyone to do anything, if they want to be in an npc the game allows for that...I simply think the game should stop allowing for that lol. There is nothing wrong with my Enlgish. you /yo-Po/ Pronoun Used to refer to the person or people that the speaker is addressing: "are you listening?"; "I love you". I'm not just addressing you, but all those reading the thread. So I will ask my question again. If you are not going to contribute to a corp in any way, why should you join one?
So you posted 4 lines of text to address that random one-liner right at the start, then proceeded to ignore everything else posted after that?
EDIT: This type of behaviour is fairly typical of a select type of people. You know who you are. |
Adela Talvanen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 12:20:00 -
[135] - Quote
Xavier Quo wrote:Me too. Solo losec exploration, avoid pirates, interacting with random people on your journey, that is what eve is for me.
I think sometimes CCP doesn't get that for a lot of people it's a time thing. Sometimes I can only play for an hour or two a week due to work and RL interests. Waiting around for fleets etc is simply not an option for me 90% of the time and I'm guessing for a lot of others as well.
Incentivising group play simply won't work on me, no matter how big the incentive, and making it obvious that you are losing out for being solo in certain situations is a huge mistake in game design.
This. ^ |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1716
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 12:39:00 -
[136] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:TL/DR: People that suck at PVP, so don't want to fight people that are actually reading and willing to PVP, look at high sec carebears as easy targets should only exist to let them pad their kill board stats and grow their epeen. They whine and whine and whine that the high sec carebears refuse to be easy targets, and whine, whine, whine about the game mechanics that protect the high sec carebears.
Here is my take:
Some people suck at ship to ship PvP against other players that are looking to PvP. These suck PvPers fly around high sec and see all these PVEers and think, "Now here are people we can beat up on". They war dec some of these industrial types, thinking "Easy kills", but then those PVEers don't undock.
SO, the suck PvPers think, we'll just wait them out. If we keep the war deck going, they'll eventually be forced to come out and fight.
What actually happens is the PVEers, that have no interest in PVP, simply drop out of player corp, to NPC corp.
The suck PvPers, come to the forums and whine about how much it sucks that they can't gets lots of easy kills of industrialists. They whine about local. They whine about CONCORD. They whine about NPC corps. They whine, whine, whine that these solo players won't come out and be easy kills..
When the industrialists respond that if you want to PvP, go find other players that want to PvP, the suck PvPers then whine that the problem is all the casual, solo, PVEers, that refuse to be their easy victims.
The problem is not the solo players. The problem is all the people that want the solo players to be their easy victims.
This guy is the GD poster boy for victimization. Everyone who says "they just want easy kills" is in fact saying "those guys are big meanies and they suck so they must care about what I do because I'm the only person who really exists". When you tell them that no one cares about what they do, they reject it, because how can reality NOT be centered on them?
Really Tarawa, what pare of non consensual pvp game is hard for you to understand? You don't have to consent to pvp or "go find people who want pvp" in EVE, you just have to find someone IN SPACE if you want pvp. That is the way EVE is and has always been.
And yet, knowing how EVE is (and knowing what kind of people play EVE), you and your like still choose to play while complaining about the basic nature of the game. It's like going swimming and complaining about the wetness of water.
It's ok that you and people like you don't like non-consensual pvp (when I'm not feeling up to it, I play Star Trek Online which has zero non-copnsensual pvp so i can run missions in peace), but if you don't like (or at least can't tolerate) non-consensual pvp, your choice to play a game like EVE is foolish in the extreme.
And yet, hiding behind your ego, you think there is something wrong with the "suck pvp'rs" for playing the gamer the way it allows, but nothing wrong with you for making a poor choice in game to play... I find that amazing.
I'm not much into pvp these days and when i was participating in it i mostly did it to help my corp/alliance out, I've never been a pvp junky like some people, but my GOD man, listen to yourself. EVE is PVP game, you should accept that as I've done and move on.
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Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
790
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 12:42:00 -
[137] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:[quote=Davis TetrisKing] So if you want to play solo, then play solo and accept the fact that you are playing solo in a multi-player game, and for some of us, quit moaning about it.
I play solo and I'd say that my gameplay style is pretty much exactly like the OP's, but...
As he said, we all know this is a multiplayer game. Being ridiculed for not choosing anyone to join my "team" is stupid.
CEO of B.U.T.T.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1716
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 12:50:00 -
[138] - Quote
Miyamoto Tekitsu wrote:
There is nothing wrong with my Enlgish.
you /yo-Po/ Pronoun
Used to refer to the person or people that the speaker is addressing: "are you listening?"; "I love you".
I'm not just addressing you, but all those reading the thread.
So I will ask my question again. If you are not going to contribute to a corp in any way, why should you join one?
A better way to ask is "why not ju8st stay in an NPC corp?".
To me the answer is simple: The NPC corp scheme is one of the most anti-EVE things EVE has going. It's no-cost (or at least very low cost) isolation against interaction (such as war decs).
Regular (player) corp characters in high sec are subject to the bad effects of war decs (and being in a player corp offers few to no benefit to the individual player), where as the ONLY way to have such an effect on an NPC corp player is via suicide. The fundamentally flawed and I'll bet CCP knows it.
How to fix it I don't know, more penalties for staying in an NPC corp past a certain amoount of skill points maybe, or treating npc corps like trial accounts (can't train or use certain skills while in the npc corp), or some limited type of war dec other players can use against npc corp players.
Or maybe buffing player corps, like if you player corp is above 8 standings with the faction you run missions for the mission runner gets a slightly bigger LP pay out (as an isolated example).
(not suggesting any of the above are good ideas, i'm not a game maker just spitballing ideas to illustrate the point)
EVE is supposed to be a player driven game. People who play directly with and against other people, who interact are supposed to be more rewarded for that than people who don't. NPC corps are cool in that they let you role play some, but are otherwise an aberration in a game that's supposed to be about players.
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Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1111
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 12:51:00 -
[139] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?
Logically, there's no reason for them to object. It is a sandbox game, and thus allows everyone to play any way they wish.
However, when your playstyle doesn't conform to someone else's idea of what you should play like, they will likely raise a stink about it. As far as EVE goes, the most common example is PvPers complaining about people who don't want to fight them (hi-seccers, wcs lovers, etc.), who are constantly trying to change the game so that other people have no choice but to do what the PvPers want (the usual "remove highsec, remove local, blah blah, though I happen to agree with remove local because it is simply idiotic, even the most carebear of games doesn't have such an insane intel tool).
And this is not unique to EVE, not by a long shot. You can see it in literally every other genre. If you try to play defensively (aka turtle) in Starcraft, you will get yelled at. Just as you'll get yelled at for doing a cheap early rush (zergling push, for example). In an FPS game, such as BF3, I got yelled at for playing Recon, because I would be "sitting back and sniping", even though I was moving with the front line with an SMG and throwing motion sensors to assist the team's push effort. Same goes with literally every other genre.
Bottom line - when a game allows you flexibility, and the playstyle you choose conflicts with someone else's idea of what you should be doing, they WILL try to change your playstyle. Either directly, or by manipulating the developers into making your chosen playstyle nonviable. And it is very, very, very., very common. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1716
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 12:56:00 -
[140] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:[quote=Davis TetrisKing] So if you want to play solo, then play solo and accept the fact that you are playing solo in a multi-player game, and for some of us, quit moaning about it. I play solo and I'd say that my gameplay style is pretty much exactly like the OP's, but... As he said, we all know this is a multiplayer game. Being ridiculed for not choosing anyone to join my "team" is stupid. Also, as a solo player I am both running my own corporation and playing faction warfare. Makes things like 20,000 times more interesting. If people were to show interest in joining my corp and hanging out, I wouldn't be solo. But I'm not one to go around advertising my B.U.T.T.
You are completely missing the point. No one, and I mean no one, Is saying that what you are doing is wrong or bad.
You play against other people in FW, so you aren't asking to"be left alone" in EVE as if it were a single player game. You are demonstrating that you understand the multiplayer nature of the game. No one is "ridiculing" you.
The people who DO get rightfully ridiculed are those who think High sec should be totally safe, or in some other way they should be immune to the influence of others. That's not what EVE is.
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Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
790
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:05:00 -
[141] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Meryl SinGarda wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:[quote=Davis TetrisKing] So if you want to play solo, then play solo and accept the fact that you are playing solo in a multi-player game, and for some of us, quit moaning about it. I play solo and I'd say that my gameplay style is pretty much exactly like the OP's, but... As he said, we all know this is a multiplayer game. Being ridiculed for not choosing anyone to join my "team" is stupid. Also, as a solo player I am both running my own corporation and playing faction warfare. Makes things like 20,000 times more interesting. If people were to show interest in joining my corp and hanging out, I wouldn't be solo. But I'm not one to go around advertising my B.U.T.T. You are completely missing the point. No one, and I mean no one, Is saying that what you are doing is wrong or bad. You play against other people in FW, so you aren't asking to"be left alone" in EVE as if it were a single player game. You are demonstrating that you understand the multiplayer nature of the game. No one is "ridiculing" you. The people who DO get rightfully ridiculed are those who think High sec should be totally safe, or in some other way they should be immune to the influence of others. That's not what EVE is.
And I wholeheartily agree with that.
CEO of B.U.T.T.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1716
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:05:00 -
[142] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Davis TetrisKing wrote:So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo? Logically, there's no reason for them to object. It is a sandbox game, and thus allows everyone to play any way they wish. However, when your playstyle doesn't conform to someone else's idea of what you should play like, they will likely raise a stink about it. As far as EVE goes, the most common example is PvPers complaining about people who don't want to fight them (hi-seccers, wcs lovers, etc.), who are constantly trying to change the game so that other people have no choice but to do what the PvPers want (the usual "remove highsec, remove local, blah blah, though I happen to agree with remove local because it is simply idiotic, even the most carebear of games doesn't have such an insane intel tool). And this is not unique to EVE, not by a long shot. You can see it in literally every other genre. If you try to play defensively (aka turtle) in Starcraft, you will get yelled at. Just as you'll get yelled at for doing a cheap early rush (zergling push, for example). In an FPS game, such as BF3, I got yelled at for playing Recon, because I would be "sitting back and sniping", even though I was moving with the front line with an SMG and throwing motion sensors to assist the team's push effort. Same goes with literally every other genre.Bottom line - when a game allows you flexibility, and the playstyle you choose conflicts with someone else's idea of what you should be doing, they WILL try to change your playstyle. Either directly, or by manipulating the developers into making your chosen playstyle nonviable. And it is very, very, very., very common.
I just wanted to underline this bit of tin-foil hattery. Did you ever stop to think that maybe there is a difference between people caring about how you play and people commenting to you that how you play is something they find to be boring or cheap. Can you even discern the difference in the two?
It seems to me that you are simply seeing that which you want to (and that which fits with your per-concieved notions). It's a very paranoid way to exist really.
Back when I played Mechwarrior 4 , people called me a "Brawler" and some of them suggested I just didn't like the way that snipers played. It was non-sense, who really cares about any of that. I thought some of the long ranged weapons were overpowered (even now, thinking the words "Clan Extended Range Large laser" makes me itch lol), but it was jsut amazing to me how much some of those players PERSONALIZED every comment I would make as if I were somehow going to come through their computers, snatch their keyboards and physiclally prevent them from sniping.
If you can't take criticism of your non-conformist way of playing, you should either conform, stop playing or stop caring about what other people say.
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Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
103
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:47:00 -
[143] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:[quote=Davis TetrisKing]So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo? If you can't take criticism of your non-conformist way of playing, you should either conform, stop playing or stop caring about what other people say.
Don't forget to CONFORM folks..........it's what EVE is all about?. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
603
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:16:00 -
[144] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: This guy is the GD poster boy for victimization.
When unable to form a cogent counter argument, the loser will usually start with ad hominem logical fallacy (attack the person rather than the argument) .
This is frequently followed by strawmanning (construct something that may "look something like" the original argument, but is easier to destroy).
Jenn aSide wrote: Everyone who says "they just want easy kills" is in fact saying "those guys are big meanies and they suck so they must care about what I do because I'm the only person who really exists". When you tell them that no one cares about what they do, they reject it, because how can reality NOT be centered on them?
In this case, not even a particularly good straw-man.
Jenn aSide wrote: Really Tarawa, what pare of non consensual pvp game is hard for you to understand? You don't have to consent to pvp or "go find people who want pvp" in EVE, you just have to find someone IN SPACE if you want pvp. That is the way EVE is and has always been.
And yet, CCP has gone to great lengths to assist those like me, that want to minimize our PvP interactions. They give us high sec, CONCORD, sec status, no insurance for suicide gank, ability to place bounties, sell kill rights. They buffed the tanks on exhumers. They give us NPC corps to allow us to escape war decs.
Yes, we can always be suicide ganked. However, CCP has constructed game mechanics designed to keep that to a minimum.
AND, along with non-consensual PvP come non-consensual-non-PvP. You can suicide gank me. I can make that unprofitable for you, and ensure that the only way you will ever get a kill of me, is the suicide gank.
I can't make you not gank me, and you can't make me come out of station and fight when it won't be a gank situation.
Jenn aSide wrote: And yet, knowing how EVE is (and knowing what kind of people play EVE), you and your like still choose to play while complaining about the basic nature of the game. It's like going swimming and complaining about the wetness of water.
Show me a complaint I made. I was simply explaining why some people hate solo play styles. They think they should be able to force me to come out and fight. THEY complain about things like NPC corps, that let me go on playing the game while ignoring them.
It is the people that demand the removal of NPC corps that do not understand what EVE is. It is a game designed and built to accommodate MANY play styles, where I can't prevent suicide gank, but you can't force me to fight in a non-gank situation.
Jenn aSide wrote: I'm not much into pvp these days and when i was participating in it i mostly did it to help my corp/alliance out, I've never been a pvp junky like some people, but my GOD man, listen to yourself. EVE is PVP game, you should accept that as I've done and move on.
And yet, it was reiterated again at the most recent fanfest, that CCP considers solo play to be a legitimate play style that they acknowledge and support.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
604
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:26:00 -
[145] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: A better way to ask is "why not ju8st stay in an NPC corp?".
To me the answer is simple: The NPC corp scheme is one of the most anti-EVE things EVE has going. It's no-cost (or at least very low cost) isolation against interaction (such as war decs).
You clearly misunderstand what EVE is.
EVE is not only ships violently trading ammo in space. That is ONE aspect of the game, but far form the only aspect.
EVE is a sandbox, designed and built to accommodate many play styles. The interactions are not limited to boom. There is also the interaction of competing to harvesting limited resources. The interactions of the market. The interactions of scarce resources, like station offices, manufacturing lines, narrow profit margins.
AND, one of the keys to a good game is that for every offense, there is a defense. No one gets to have their way all the time.
The NPC corp mechanism is VERY EVE. It is the defense to high sec war decs of industrialists.
You can try to make me fight a war against you.... and I can drop to NPC corp... then you can suicide gank me... but I can fit my ships in ways that makes sure it costs you more than it costs me.
And finally, without NPC corps, high sec war decs could and would force many carebears to simply stop playing the game. CCP is not going to allow one group of players to drive other players out of the game and out of the revenue stream. CCP will create and maintain whatever game mechanics that are needed to ensure that all play styles are accommodated.
You can keep whining about NPC corps, but CCP is going to continue to ignore you.... because is NOT ONLY about non-consensual PVP. It is about accommodating many different play styles in a sand box environment. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
604
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:35:00 -
[146] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Did you ever stop to think that maybe there is a difference between people caring about how you play and people commenting to you that how you play is something they find to be boring or cheap. Can you even discern the difference in the two?
Did you ever think that maybe we don't care what you think about our play style?
You find my play style to be boring and cheap? Well, go play against someone that plays the way you enjoy playing against.
I.e. You want to PvP? GOOD FOR YOU! Go PvP against someone that wants to PvP, and stop coming on the forums to whine about all the things that allow me to play in a way that you don't like.
You can't FORCE me to play the game, so you can't FORCE me to play it in a way that you enjoy playing against.
Oh.. but those guys that play the way you enjoy playing against... they're good at PvP and you're as likely to lose as win.. and who wants that? Better to come to the forums and whine about how easy it is for the suck PvPers to avoid being your victim.
You say I'm the poster child for victim hood? Why? Because I'm winning! The game lets me play the way I enjoy playing... while you are forced to come to the forums to whine about how NPC corp game mechanic is denying you all the easy kills... WHAAAAA
Loser! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1718
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:58:00 -
[147] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Did you ever stop to think that maybe there is a difference between people caring about how you play and people commenting to you that how you play is something they find to be boring or cheap. Can you even discern the difference in the two?
Did you ever think that maybe we don't care what you think about our play style?
That's a lie and you know it. You are ALWAYS talking about it.
Quote: You find my play style to be boring and cheap? Well, go play against someone that plays the way you enjoy playing against.
I.e. You want to PvP? GOOD FOR YOU! Go PvP against someone that wants to PvP, and stop coming on the forums to whine about all the things that allow me to play in a way that you don't like.
You can't FORCE me to play the game, so you can't FORCE me to play it in a way that you enjoy playing against.
Oh.. but those guys that play the way you enjoy playing against... they're good at PvP and you're as likely to lose as win.. and who wants that? Better to come to the forums and whine about how easy it is for the suck PvPers to avoid being your victim.
You say I'm the poster child for victim hood? Why? Because I'm winning! The game lets me play the way I enjoy playing... while you are forced to come to the forums to whine about how NPC corp game mechanic is denying you all the easy kills... WHAAAAA
Loser!
Same thing I ask others like you, can you not see how crazy all that makes you sound? Especially the "winning" thing you just said (are you Charlie Sheen?). Why would I want to force you to do anything. I don't give a rats posterior about you or anyone you know lol.
And yes, you are the poster child for victimhood, you can't deal with the idea of someone messing with you in game so you post with this alt (do't try to deny it, you've admitted as much several times).
Again, YOU, LHA Tarawa, have chosen to be a part of a non-consensual pvp game, that was your choice, yet at every turn you rail against non-consensual pvp. No one is saying you should pvp (i don't lol), but by playing eve (and undocking) you CONSENT to pvp should someone else choose to bring it to you because EVE is a non-consensual pvp game.
Can you honestly not take any kind of responsibility for you own choices? Is it truly that painful to you to do so? Can you not see that your problem is YOU, and not the rest of us?
If you cannot, the sadness I feel for you bro has nothing to do with this video game.
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1718
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:05:00 -
[148] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:[quote=Davis TetrisKing]So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo? If you can't take criticism of your non-conformist way of playing, you should either conform, stop playing or stop caring about what other people say. Don't forget to CONFORM folks..........it's what EVE is all about?.
So i guess you missed the other 2 elements of what I said (ie stop playing if it bothers you so much or stop caring about what other people think about what you do?
But yea, since you have a problem with the idea, I'll tell you, conformity (by choice) is an option.
I have chosen to conform to how things are in real life and in game many times, at other times I've chosen not to for my own reasons.
The habitual non-conformist like you, on the other had, just finds stuff the he can non-conform to (lol) simply so that he can feel like some kind of rebel.
EVE has many of you types, people who don't really like EVE and really would like games like Star Trek Online (no real death penalty, no non-consensual pvp, and a game that celebrates solo play and makes all interactions consensual), but who chose to keep playing EVE (a harsh non-consensual pvp game) because here they can be the edgy non-conformist solo rebel fighting against the forces of injustice and Goon-tyranny.
Just tell the truth about yourself, then i won't have to do it for you lol.
|
maCH'EttE
Mafia Redux Phobia.
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:05:00 -
[149] - Quote
I dont know about solo mining or solo ratting, but thanks to ccp solo pvp is pretty much dead, and if its not, it will be soon. Not only has ccp concentrated on killing solo pvp'ers but they are slowly killing small and medium gang warfare also. It is ccp's intention to get everyone into large corps/alliances and have a blow warfare game. Larger corps/alliances = more monies in ccps poket = bent to the needs of the large blob corps/alliances. Thank you ccp for shitting on the game. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1718
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:14:00 -
[150] - Quote
Quote: Here we see a variation of the True Scottsman logical fallacy. Attempting to define your opinion into truth. You attempt to define EVE as a game with the sole aspect of being about non-consensual PvP, and nothing else.
And now you lying again. When did i say EVE is about one thing? The non-consensual pvp aspect of EVE is universal yes, but it is not all there is to EVE.
We need a new name for this, i'll call it the Tarawa Fallacy lol.
Quote: And yet, CCP has gone to great lengths to assist those like me, that want to minimize our PvP interactions. They give us high sec, CONCORD, sec status, no insurance for suicide gank, ability to place bounties, sell kill rights. They buffed the tanks on exhumers. They give us NPC corps to allow us to escape war decs.
Yes, we can always be suicide ganked. However, CCP has constructed game mechanics designed to keep that to a minimum.
None of whcih changes the nature of the game. until weapons magically stop working in High Sec, EVE is a non-consensual pvp game
Quote: AND, along with non-consensual PvP come non-consensual-non-PvP. You can suicide gank me. I can make that unprofitable for you, and ensure that the only way you will ever get a kill of me, is the suicide gank.
I can't make you not gank me, and you can't make me come out of station and fight when it won't be a gank situation.
Underlinded the part that demonstrates that EVE is a non-consensual pvp game.
Jenn aSide wrote: And yet, knowing how EVE is (and knowing what kind of people play EVE), you and your like still choose to play while complaining about the basic nature of the game. It's like going swimming and complaining about the wetness of water.
Show me a complaint I made. I was simply explaining why some people hate solo play styles. They think they should be able to force me to come out and fight. THEY complain about things like NPC corps, that let me go on playing the game while ignoring them.
It is the people that demand the removal of NPC corps that do not understand what EVE is. It is a game designed and built to accommodate MANY play styles, where I can't prevent suicide gank, but you can't force me to fight in a non-gank situation.[/quote]
Show you a complaint you made? Do i really need to dig up your own posts where you kept saying EVE wouldn't die if High Sec were made perfectly safe? Your whole speil on here has been about how much you dislike pvp, no one can make you pvp yadda yadda.
Eve has featured non-consensual pvp since day one. You started playing after day one, and yet you seem to HATE a core aspect of the game. Yet you keep playing, but somehow, people like me who don't pvp but accept the nature of the game are the wrong ones?
You're beyond incredible.
Quote: And yet, it was reiterated again at the most recent fanfest, that CCP considers solo play to be a legitimate play style that they acknowledge and support.
And who said solo play isn't legitimate? Can you read?
|
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1718
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:15:00 -
[151] - Quote
maCH'EttE wrote:I dont know about solo mining or solo ratting, but thanks to ccp solo pvp is pretty much dead, and if its not, it will be soon. Not only has ccp concentrated on killing solo pvp'ers but they are slowly killing small and medium gang warfare also. It is ccp's intention to get everyone into large corps/alliances and have a blow warfare game. Larger corps/alliances = more monies in ccps poket = bent to the needs of the large blob corps/alliances. Thank you ccp for shitting on the game.
Dude, i'm running out of tinfoil.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
608
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:18:00 -
[152] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Same thing I ask others like you, can you not see how crazy all that makes you sound? Especially the "winning" thing you just said (are you Charlie Sheen?).
It's so easy to get your goat.
Jenn aSide wrote: Why would I want to force you to do anything. I don't give a rats posterior about you or anyone you know lol.
And yes, you are the poster child for victimhood, you can't deal with the idea of someone messing with you in game so you post with this alt (do't try to deny it, you've admitted as much several times).
You totally miss the point, don't you.
No one messes with me in game, because I use the game mechanics provided by CCP, along with my own casual play style, to minimize the opportunity, profitability and likelihood that someone will bother.
I'm playing a game that I enjoy playing, in a way I enjoy playing it, while denying kills to people that think the game should be about getting lots of easy kills from players like me.
Not only an I getting to play the game in a way I enjoy, BUT at the same time, I'm ruining your day by ensuring that you don't get to play with me in the way that you enjoy playing.
I then get to come on the forums, and rub your nose it in, while easily defeating your weak internets skills with my superior critical think skills.
Jenn aSide wrote: Again, YOU, LHA Tarawa, have chosen to be a part of a non-consensual pvp game, that was your choice, yet at every turn you rail against non-consensual pvp. No one is saying you should pvp (i don't lol), but by playing eve (and undocking) you CONSENT to pvp should someone else choose to bring it to you because EVE is a non-consensual pvp game.
Link a single post where I suggested that suicide ganking should be removed fro the game. You can't, becuase I've never done so.
It is a non-consensual PvP game, but the game also provides mechanics that allow me to minimize the probability of non-consensual PvP to the point that... well.... I've not lost a ship since returning to the game 9 months ago.
Jenn aSide wrote: Can you honestly not take any kind of responsibility for you own choices? Is it truly that painful to you to do so? Can you not see that your problem is YOU, and not the rest of us?
If you cannot, the sadness I feel for you bro has nothing to do with this video game.
The problem is, I choose to play the game I enjoy playing it, rather that the way you want me to. And that angers you to no end.
Get over it. Stop looking at carebears as potential easy kills, and figure out a way to stop sucking at PvP so that you can actually get kills against players that are ready and willing to fight.
Yes, I'm baiting you. And you are soooooo falling for it.
I win, you lose.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
812
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:20:00 -
[153] - Quote
maCH'EttE wrote:I dont know about solo mining or solo ratting, but thanks to ccp solo pvp is pretty much dead, and if its not, it will be soon. Not only has ccp concentrated on killing solo pvp'ers but they are slowly killing small and medium gang warfare also. It is ccp's intention to get everyone into large corps/alliances and have a blow warfare game. Larger corps/alliances = more monies in ccps poket = bent to the needs of the large blob corps/alliances. Thank you ccp for shitting on the game.
Sorry about your hurricane nerf, bro.
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Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
103
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:26:00 -
[154] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Zen Dad wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:[quote=Davis TetrisKing]So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo? If you can't take criticism of your non-conformist way of playing, you should either conform, stop playing or stop caring about what other people say. Don't forget to CONFORM folks..........it's what EVE is all about?. So i guess you missed the other 2 elements of what I said (ie stop playing if it bothers you so much or stop caring about what other people think about what you do? But yea, since you have a problem with the idea, I'll tell you, conformity (by choice) is an option. I have chosen to conform to how things are in real life and in game many times, at other times I've chosen not to for my own reasons. The habitual non-conformist like you, on the other had, just finds stuff the he can non-conform to (lol) simply so that he can feel like some kind of rebel. EVE has many of you types, people who don't really like EVE and really would like games like Star Trek Online (no real death penalty, no non-consensual pvp, and a game that celebrates solo play and makes all interactions consensual), but who chose to keep playing EVE (a harsh non-consensual pvp game) because here they can be the edgy non-conformist solo rebel fighting against the forces of injustice and Goon-tyranny. Just tell the truth about yourself, then i won't have to do it for you lol.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1718
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:37:00 -
[155] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:
The problem is, I choose to play the game I enjoy playing it, rather that the way you want me to. And that angers you to no end.
Get over it. Stop looking at carebears as potential easy kills, and figure out a way to stop sucking at PvP so that you can actually get kills against players that are ready and willing to fight.
Yes, I'm baiting you. And you are soooooo falling for it.
I win, you lose.
What is wrong with you that you need to believe that others care about what you do? Hell,I haven't killed anyhting but blood raiders and sansha for a long time now. Are you a Blood Raider? (if so, im gonna get ya).
i'm just pointing out how stupid it all is. No one wants you to stop playing a certain way, and the fact that you think this means you could use some IRL help man, seriously.
You see, i can see through your lie, you aren't baiting anyone, you actually do think that way and you know it even if you're not willing to admit it. And you actually think you can "win" an internet forum?
When i am elected to the CSM (ie when malcanis' coup is complete and he stuffs the ballot boxes to get me in, just in time for me to get my passport to iceland), YOU (R Avatar) will be the 1st against the Wall (next to the door that won't open).
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1718
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:41:00 -
[156] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:
The truth is that I think you are sponsored or approved by CCP and the Blob to stalk the forums and harangue any non - Blob player who likes EVE the way it is.
Your carefully packaged language is always just a couple degrees below the max boiling point the Devs will allow. Your job is to derail any threads that you and your type (oh sorry -- using your language now - see - it's not nice is it) find remotely threatening.
Now we will probably having a Dev come to your rescue .
Crap, CCP Soundwave, the jig is up they are on to me! Beam me out, BEAM ME OUT!!!!!!!!
*garbled radio transmission*
WTF you mean EVE doesn't have Transporters and that I should GB2StarTrekOnline? Damn it, screwed again. That's the last time i take a job spying for CCP.
But seriously Zen, if you can't handle the truth, that's not my problem. I'm from Texas, i call em like I see em, and I see em as they are. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
612
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:02:00 -
[157] - Quote
This thread looks like a shooting gallery.
I like it :) |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
103
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:22:00 -
[158] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:[quote=Zen Dad]
I'm from Texas, i call em like I see em, and I see em as they are.
You can always tell a Texan......... but you can't tell him much.
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Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
365
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 17:10:00 -
[159] - Quote
maCH'EttE wrote:I dont know about solo mining or solo ratting, but thanks to ccp solo pvp is pretty much dead, and if its not, it will be soon. Not only has ccp concentrated on killing solo pvp'ers but they are slowly killing small and medium gang warfare also. It is ccp's intention to get everyone into large corps/alliances and have a blow warfare game. Larger corps/alliances = more monies in ccps poket = bent to the needs of the large blob corps/alliances. Thank you ccp for shitting on the game.
That's not entirley true. Faction warfare has pelnty of solo PVP in low sec.
The reason for this is that you have to share you 25K LP ( or 15k LP) with whoever is in the plex at the time. So naturally people get all pissy when other people show up leading to alliance on alliance action on occasion. Therefore people tend to be alone in the plex's and you can get at them without having to be in a blob.
Although no longer active Adolf made thousands of kill mostly solo using a condor often times.
So its still there but limited to FW because of its mechanics. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
xXxKONSHUxXx
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 17:26:00 -
[160] - Quote
Am I the only one who has a boner for RiotGirl...
anyways,
The point of eve is to make it what you want. You can be the lone ranger, but you will find warfare a challenge, the story will keep you entertained though. You can become an industrial giant, with or without others. The options go on, but like any world, its easier to not go alone. Learn to make friends, despise your enemies and even more importantly, make the world your own. |
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Bruce Kemp
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
26
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:13:00 -
[161] - Quote
Since 2004 i have flown in fleets of 250+, flown in gangs of 10/20/30 ppl and flown in pvp solo.
As long as your playing eve your way, that all that matters.
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
154
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 18:27:00 -
[162] - Quote
Noone cares about soloists it's just when they pipe up about things catering to a solo crowd. I'm a solo guy meself (no alts) most of the time but I get enjoyment from being able to compete with that handicap.
If you want to be solo here that means you want a challenge. If ya need CCP to add "solo content" then you don't want to be a soloist you just want an easy game and can gtfo. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1194
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 18:51:00 -
[163] - Quote
Bruce Kemp wrote:Since 2004 i have flown in fleets of 250+, flown in gangs of 10/20/30 ppl and flown in pvp solo. As long as your playing eve your way, that all that matters.
^^^ this a thousand time this
Why do some folk struggle so much with this idea?
This is not a signature. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1194
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 18:52:00 -
[164] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Bruce Kemp wrote:Since 2004 i have flown in fleets of 250+, flown in gangs of 10/20/30 ppl and flown in pvp solo. As long as your playing eve your way, that all that matters. ^^^ this, a thousand time this Why do some folk struggle so much with this idea?
This is not a signature. |
Dare Knight
Cornerian Logistics
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 20:01:00 -
[165] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:You will do well in Eve with that mindset. There was a time when highsec was a lot less safe and I miss those times.
I completely agree with this. (I haven't read the entire thread but am definitely working my way there. I love discussions like this and this post made me have to stop and comment) I'm a solo player myself. I have experienced a lot of EVE, from missioning and arcs to alliance leadership (though not in nullsec), and I've found that I personally am MOST comfortable flying solo or with on a small group in WH space. It's my safe-zone, and I feel is far safer than anything highsec has to offer me. Exploration is key in WH space and the content is extremely rich, as are the possibilities.
That being said, like I said before, I enjoy flying in a fleet from time to time. I don't mind a few people bee-bopping around with me. When I'm enrolled in FW I definitely enjoy FC'ing and running around in huge fleets. At the end of the day I want to kick back and unwind, whether that be exploring, mining, or even just toying around editing my character. I'm not against the fact that this is a multiplayer game, and if I wanted a strictly single player game, I'd play FTL.
I feel that over time I've observed a great number of solo players complaining about THEIR particular needs in a game largely driven by a mass of players. As a business, CCP has to appeal to the largest stream of revenue, for themselves and their shareholders. As an MMO, CCP has to appeal to, you guessed it, the largest part of the player base. This isn't unexpected and completely understandable.
That being said, this is a multiplayer game. Playing solo doesn't isolate you from the rest of the population. Playing solo is just as challenging, if not more challenging, than playing with others all the time. The difference is that I have a lot more control of my time utilization when I play the way I do, even though my impact on New Eden isn't great like that of the Goons, for example. It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1379
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 20:44:00 -
[166] - Quote
Regardless of it being an MMO, not everyone wants to be fleeted up 24/7 when playing. The lack of decent(fun) solo activities is a blemish on Eve, and probably hurts retention rates.
[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=206023&find=unread[/url] |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
144
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 21:05:00 -
[167] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Regardless of it being an MMO, not everyone wants to be fleeted up 24/7 when playing. The lack of decent(fun) solo activities is a blemish on Eve, and probably hurts retention rates.
I hope they overhaul missioning and complexes at some point. saying eve isn't a theme park isn't true, it's just a pretty crappy one. freelance space bum |
BlackCobalt
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 21:31:00 -
[168] - Quote
I have 1 account and have doing the solo play since I've started playing eve years ago. I can't afford anymore then 1 account and I don't want too plex 10 accounts too be a multi player and logging into all 10 accounts separately to play is waste.
Why ccp hasn't allowed players to log the alts on at the same time as the main is beyond me. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3541
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 21:39:00 -
[169] - Quote
BlackCobalt wrote:I have 1 account and have doing the solo play since I've started playing eve years ago. I can't afford anymore then 1 account and I don't want too plex 10 accounts too be a multi player and logging into all 10 accounts separately to play is waste.
Why ccp hasn't allowed players to log the alts on at the same time as the main is beyond me. Because that would make things worse than they are, especially for the solo crowd.
|
OfBalance
Caldari State
441
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 22:33:00 -
[170] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote: So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?
The same reason people object to -insert game mechanic- or -insert player demographic- of any sort. Being that we all send money to CCP or send isk to others so that they will do the same in our stead, I think it's rather amusing players would care, but there is a persistent political demographic around here who are in a state of permanent dismay that we're not playing according to a rule-set that does not exist.
As the hilariously astute supposed counter-point (showcased in reply #1 of course) goes: this is a sandbox mmo. Unfortunately for anyone who unironically hangs their hat on this observation: sandbox comes first, mmo second. In a true sandbox, there is no regulation mandating a multilayer experience. It is there to be had. It's ever encouraged, but if one chooses to adopt a solo play-style, they've weighed the benefits and made that decision.
Long live EVE and the sandbox. Let those who would tell you how to play a game in your spare time go play in traffic. |
|
CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 04:00:00 -
[171] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?
The ones with objections to our ''solo'' playing style are those who doesn't understand the concept of sandbox and want everyone else play the game the way they think it should be played.
I'll join the group of people telling you ''play the game the way you want and don't care about the rest''.
The reasons for me to solo play almost all the time are much like yours, we don't have tons of hours to spend and sometimes playing with others make waste much of that time we have, or perhaps makes us feel we are not contributing enough to our corps. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7180
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 05:03:00 -
[172] - Quote
I agree with the OP.
+1 like for sure.
There's quite a few semi solo players in this game. Just because we aren't in a gang roaming round the Universe doesn't mean we aren't interacting with other players.
DMC |
Provence Tristram
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
97
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 08:38:00 -
[173] - Quote
I confess - I pretty much exclusively play solo (can't you tell from my "elite corp?").
Overally, I've never been able to break into EVE's more social side. I've had a number of people actively attempt to gank me... and even one near shave on a corp kill shortly after I chanced an invite. I am sure there are nice, pleasant, and trust-worthy people out there, but space is a harsh and unforgiving place, and I didn't have a lot of faith in humanity to begin with.
Missioning solo is boring, but with my low overall experience (and complete absence of PvP skill), I just don't feel like I'd offer all that much to a corp. I'm an intellectual first, but that doesn't really get you very far in a cutthroat galaxy of scheming, stealing and bargaining. Eventually, I may try to reach out again, but I don't think I will do so until I can effectively fit at least T2 in all slots on an Amarr BS.
Then, I might still be completely green, but I'll at least look menacing. |
Rebius Noir
ReDan Fleet
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:16:00 -
[174] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:I understand that 'eve is a multiplayer game', and the best way to thrive is to join forces with others.
At the beginning of my career I was also in a corp and alliance and occupied for a few weeks nulsec, but the thing, that I never really liked, was playing EVE almost like having another job. You have to be present, you have to train this, you have to do this, if you don't do this you will be expelled... I don't like this style. So I'm also most of the time solo player. I have been playing EVE almost 10 years now (with a few major breaks though), I have my own corp with me and my 2nd alt for about 3,5 years and I love the game in first place. (Because on the other hand, there are not much "Space-themed" games after all, and if they are, they are 10 to 15 years old )
I play games for fun, not because I must and I want it to stay that way. So after those long years I'm still a newb, but I have skills and though I whine sometimes about a loss now and then I can live with it (and most importantly I don't bother anyone with my problems) and do what I want.
And I don't say I wouldn't join up with an alliance, if they would just let me live in my own way and wouldn't push me around |
Avalon Champion
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:30:00 -
[175] - Quote
I am pretty much a 'solo' player, although i also enjoy the social side of things, which I can get from an NPC corp, I'll also post on the boards, and occasionally join a Corp where i participate fully.
In the end I'm content to run missions in my game time or mine with my industry alt as I find it relaxing, I will also put RL first, which puts the back of some corps/alliances up, as I refuse to be at their beck and call which often happens if theres a planned op on and you cant get on. Its one reason I have for not training for capitals and higher. |
Cannibal Kane
Somali Coast Guard Authority
1763
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:32:00 -
[176] - Quote
I like to do my own thing.
This is an MMO and expecting special treatment just because I am on my own is ********. And those that want special treatment for their solo play is ********.
Even though I do thing on my own, I do affect alot of people with my so called solo gameplay so am I really solo? "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4072
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:54:00 -
[177] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:I don't have an issue with solo play per se...
What pisses me off is when solo players expect to be competitive with groups of players and/or feel that they deserve special consideration/mechanics/ships over others who put the effort into dealing with other mouth breathers (which is no small feat).
People always seem to forget that corps and alliances are basically collections of "solo players" who have simply decided to pool their individual resources with those of others. Ergo, anything done to aid a "true solo player" will always be to the greater advantage of those willing to work together.
Imho you are providing a shallow picture of the matter.
There are MMOs out there where it's so easy to setup "task oriented groups". Those groups are very nice because even the most casual guy without many chances to establish himself in a long standing relation with other players, can still perform group activities, have fun and socialize.
Incursions are what in EvE came closest to this. Even without super tight acquaintances or being in dedicated corps, people could quickly join something social and perform a task and then everyone back to their lives.
The crux of the matter is, they DO WANT to partake in social activities, they just have various constraints that prevent them to join more organized entities.
Therefore the new gen of MMOs that have those "quick join" features are awesome for a "casual". Once I thought those quick join features would not create friendship but I found out it's not true. Out of 10 groups you will find the 1-2 guys you just like to stick around and add to the contact list for later.
Casuals that whine imo are whining because they can't express themselves in EvE as they could if EvE had more Incursions-alike features and less "heavy weight" demanding social features. Lets leave out the implementation, the fact Incursions were imbalanced etc, let's focus to the social aspect of the feature per se.
Imo EvE should add more of that.
It's OK to leave a "gap" between the potential achievements of those who are casuals and the dedicated guys, but give room for casuals too. They are SO MANY potential new players and they would still all pay $15. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1845
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:11:00 -
[178] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:I don't have an issue with solo play per se...
What pisses me off is when solo players expect to be competitive with groups of players and/or feel that they deserve special consideration/mechanics/ships over others who put the effort into dealing with other mouth breathers (which is no small feat).
People always seem to forget that corps and alliances are basically collections of "solo players" who have simply decided to pool their individual resources with those of others. Ergo, anything done to aid a "true solo player" will always be to the greater advantage of those willing to work together. Imho you are providing a shallow picture of the matter. There are MMOs out there where it's so easy to setup "task oriented groups". Those groups are very nice because even the most casual guy without many chances to establish himself in a long standing relation with other players, can still perform group activities, have fun and socialize. Incursions are what in EvE came closest to this. Even without super tight acquaintances or being in dedicated corps, people could quickly join something social and perform a task and then everyone back to their lives. The crux of the matter is, they DO WANT to partake in social activities, they just have various constraints that prevent them to join more organized entities. Therefore the new gen of MMOs that have those "quick join" features are awesome for a "casual". Once I thought those quick join features would not create friendship but I found out it's not true. Out of 10 groups you will find the 1-2 guys you just like to stick around and add to the contact list for later. Casuals that whine imo are whining because they can't express themselves in EvE as they could if EvE had more Incursions-alike features and less "heavy weight" demanding social features. Lets leave out the implementation, the fact Incursions were imbalanced etc, let's focus to the social aspect of the feature per se. Imo EvE should add more of that. It's OK to leave a "gap" between the potential achievements of those who are casuals and the dedicated guys, but give room for casuals too. They are SO MANY potential new players and they would still all pay $15.
Well, EVE is so anti-solo that they will miss even the most obvious chances. FAI, the new hacking minigame would had made for a nice soloable, casual acitvity, if they just had allowed it to be done any time and anywhere rather than only in a site and in space. Put the loot in a lootable sealed container and hack the container later, when you want or when you can.
But NOOOH, that would be heresy! PvP need to jump on hapless explorers too busy to d-scan! Your child just broke his arm but don't let his cries distract you! Don't stop hititng d-scan, lest you lose your ship! HTFU and welcome to EVE!
Seriously, they're totally tainted by anti-solo, anti-casual thought. And so feature upon feature just missfire and fails to reach its full potential. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
987
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:38:00 -
[179] - Quote
solo is good.
its not all about finding 1v1s, its about terrorizing a gang by yourself and getting some fights from them - or if you are super ballsy and have a 10 bil vindi, kill them all your self! :D Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg CCP Hilmar CEO > "why am i sweating, why is this game doing this to me"
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:24:00 -
[180] - Quote
I have played EvE since 2003. I think I have been in maybe 2 small gangs with Privateers and perhaps 5 large fleets with a null alliance in that time. It's not that I don't like people really, it's more that I feel crowded by more than just me in a gang or fleet :) ok it's probably the not liking people thing.
it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game. Oh and we just mine or run missions too.
Well let me just say I complained a little in the early EvE universe about CCP shafting soloers. Then I had some alliance dweeb get on the forums here and tell me if I didn't like alliances to fight back against them. He was being a smart ass as obviously what could a exclusively solo player do. But I took his advice and made Privateers. What did the alliances do about it? They WHINED SO LOUD CCP NERFED IT. You know why because when they come back to empire they want to solo haul, solo mission, solo travel.
And they couldn't handle solo small group pvp'rs blowing them up. So yes as a solo player I had a very large impact on EvE.
Also throughout my EvE career I have solo war decced large corps and alliances. I have introduced many Care Bears to pvp and have quite a few thank me for it because it gave them the impetus to switch from care bearing to pirating, null and starting their own empire war careers. At the end of my wars I'd usually give the ones who fought back or were nice people a T3 or something.
I have also run a pvp comp in game and always go into help to assist people.
Saying we merely whine and don't contribute is not true at all.
|
|
Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:42:00 -
[181] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game.
Actually I find it kind of a dull read, it's the same old crap.
The first 2 posts in this thread sum up fairly well why people solo in MMOs.
Unfortunately MMO companies sometimes see this as a problem and try to get the solo group to mix in more with the rest of the community, which of course never works. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4072
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:51:00 -
[182] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I have played EvE since 2003. I think I have been in maybe 2 small gangs with Privateers and perhaps 5 large fleets with a null alliance in that time. It's not that I don't like people really, it's more that I feel crowded by more than just me in a gang or fleet :) ok it's probably the not liking people thing.
it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game. Oh and we just mine or run missions too.
Well let me just say I complained a little in the early EvE universe about CCP shafting soloers. Then I had some alliance dweeb get on the forums here and tell me if I didn't like alliances to fight back against them. He was being a smart ass as obviously what could a exclusively solo player do. But I took his advice and made Privateers. What did the alliances do about it? They WHINED SO LOUD CCP NERFED IT. You know why because when they come back to empire they want to solo haul, solo mission, solo travel.
And they couldn't handle solo small group pvp'rs blowing them up. So yes as a solo player I had a very large impact on EvE.
I did not know Privateers were born off like this. I appreciate your contribution to EvE! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Nerva Auris
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:06:00 -
[183] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game. Oh and we just mine or run missions too.
Well let me just say I complained a little in the early EvE universe about CCP shafting soloers. Then I had some alliance dweeb get on the forums here and tell me if I didn't like alliances to fight back against them. He was being a smart ass as obviously what could a exclusively solo player do. But I took his advice and made Privateers. What did the alliances do about it? They WHINED SO LOUD CCP NERFED IT. You know why because when they come back to empire they want to solo haul, solo mission, solo travel.
And they couldn't handle solo small group pvp'rs blowing them up. So yes as a solo player I had a very large impact on EvE.
You should ask CCP to put those rose-tinted glasses in the NEX Store. |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
890
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:12:00 -
[184] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Eve is a multiplayer game but it's also a sandbox game, and one which reflects real world society quite closely. People choose to work on their own in the game just as people choose to work alone in the real world. I see no problem with that.
Excellent, short, clean and direct
Here, for you Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:19:00 -
[185] - Quote
Nerva Auris wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: it's amusing reading all the comments such as soloers are whiners and no one cares about soloers or soloers don't contribute to the game. Oh and we just mine or run missions too.
Well let me just say I complained a little in the early EvE universe about CCP shafting soloers. Then I had some alliance dweeb get on the forums here and tell me if I didn't like alliances to fight back against them. He was being a smart ass as obviously what could a exclusively solo player do. But I took his advice and made Privateers. What did the alliances do about it? They WHINED SO LOUD CCP NERFED IT. You know why because when they come back to empire they want to solo haul, solo mission, solo travel.
And they couldn't handle solo small group pvp'rs blowing them up. So yes as a solo player I had a very large impact on EvE.
You should ask CCP to put those rose-tinted glasses in the NEX Store. I'll do that for you. |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
639
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:00:00 -
[186] - Quote
There's lots of group content out there but because of current mechanics which limit player interaction, people will continue farming this content in the most efficient way possible. If you can get all of the rewards a group can by yourself, why would you bother grouping up and dealing with additional overhead?
Many players who prefer playing in a group are pigeonholed into playing solo (or quit) because they are required to in order to participate in group content. That's not how the game should work, in a sandbox game you should be able to make a living doing whatever you prefer doing, whether it's solo mining, group activities like Incursions, or ship combat with other players.
Whether it's through buffing existing group gameplay or creating new group gameplay and making solo gameplay comparatively worse off, or by making solo gameplay more risky or reducing the reward, ultimately solo play will be nerfed in order to bring it in line with the rest of the game.
It doesn't mean that solo gameplay should be destroyed completely or to get people to "play my way". It just needs to be tweaked to make the game more balanced for all styles of gameplay. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1871
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:22:00 -
[187] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:There's lots of group content out there but because of current mechanics which limit player interaction, people will continue farming this content in the most efficient way possible. If you can get all of the rewards a group can by yourself, why would you bother grouping up and dealing with additional overhead?
Many players who prefer playing in a group are pigeonholed into playing solo (or quit) because they are required to in order to participate in group content. That's not how the game should work, in a sandbox game you should be able to make a living doing whatever you prefer doing, whether it's solo mining, group activities like Incursions, or ship combat with other players.
Whether it's through buffing existing group gameplay or creating new group gameplay and making solo gameplay comparatively worse off, or by making solo gameplay more risky or reducing the reward, ultimately solo play will be nerfed in order to bring it in line with the rest of the game.
It doesn't mean that solo gameplay should be destroyed completely or to get people to "play my way". It just needs to be tweaked to make the game more balanced for all styles of gameplay.
Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content? The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
935
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:26:00 -
[188] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content?
No, he's describing the nerf to solo content that has already begun.
|
Skeln Thargensen
Thargensen Plumbing Services
162
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:36:00 -
[189] - Quote
if by nerfing solo play you mean the bash X exploration games then I'm quite fine with that.
but if you touch my hound I will send torpedos. freelance space bum |
Adunh Slavy
816
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:47:00 -
[190] - Quote
CCP should stop worrying about "group content" frankly. Make tools groups can use, fix the group tools that exist (corp roles, poses, more POS sizes from stupid huge to personal size, etc). How about some new tools, like muti-player piloted ships, industrial ships that do something industrial besides haul stuff around, stocks, bonds, even player created currencies.
CCP should focus on "big goals" and then spread the resources and tasks to accomplish these goals far and wide over the map. Each of these resources and goals should require some amount of specialization. Groups will want to accomplish these goals and will team up on their own, or utilize, via the market, the skills and resources of others.
Big goals could be colonization (building gates as eluded to at fanfest), terraforming planets and moons, building low sec and high sec outposts. Vanity (Such as 'collect enough precious metals to make your null sec outpost shine like a mirror') People will do that kind of thing if it is available and gives enough "oooh ahhh" points to nerdy space geeks like our selves.
Goals matter. Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box. |
|
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:54:00 -
[191] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:CCP should stop worrying about "group content" frankly. Make tools groups can use, fix the group tools that exist (corp roles, poses, more POS sizes from stupid huge to personal size, etc). How about some new tools, like muti-player piloted ships, industrial ships that do something industrial besides haul stuff around, stocks, bonds, even player created currencies.
CCP should focus on "big goals" and then spread the resources and tasks to accomplish these goals far and wide over the map. Each of these resources and goals should require some amount of specialization. Groups will want to accomplish these goals and will team up on their own, or utilize, via the market, the skills and resources of others.
Big goals could be colonization (building gates as eluded to at fanfest), terraforming planets and moons, building low sec and high sec outposts. Vanity (Such as 'collect enough precious metals to make your null sec outpost shine like a mirror') People will do that kind of thing if it is available and gives enough "oooh ahhh" points to nerdy space geeks like our selves.
Goals matter. Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.
Absolutely agree! |
Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:23:00 -
[192] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content? No, he's describing the nerf to solo content that has already begun.
Which is a mistake, but then it's a mistake a lot of MMO companies make. It's funny how games companies seem to learn from each other, mistakes as well. |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1098
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:33:00 -
[193] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Excuse me? Are you calling to nerf solo content? I wouldn't worry about it too much. Literally hundreds of thousands of carebears will unsubscribe if CCP dare do anything to affect solo L4 play in high-sec or "bottoms-up" ISK generation in null-sec. CCP has no sense of humour. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
937
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:47:00 -
[194] - Quote
Six Six Six wrote:Which is a mistake, but then it's a mistake a lot of MMO companies make. It's funny how games companies seem to learn from each other, mistakes as well.
I am extremely curious as to what examples you think provide parallels to this situation. |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:15:00 -
[195] - Quote
It's not that people have a problem with solo players. Everyone is cool with that.
The problem is when solo players think that solo means "no one is allowed to interfere with me".
Then people tend to get a little bit testy. "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
639
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:30:00 -
[196] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box. The problem is that there are already pre-determined game mechanics that prevent players from fully interacting with other players, which helps out solo players against all other players and is against the sandbox mentality. Most agree that removing the mechanics completely is not a good idea. Tweaks here and there are needed to balance the current situation, just like anything else. |
Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:33:00 -
[197] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Six Six Six wrote:Which is a mistake, but then it's a mistake a lot of MMO companies make. It's funny how games companies seem to learn from each other, mistakes as well. I am extremely curious as to what examples you think provide parallels to this situation.
There's other MMOs that have tried exactly the same sort of thing, namely altering game content or just adding content that can't be soloed. Result of course is those that do solo eventually just leave. There are a lot of people that solo in MMOs and the mistake is in not recognising those players. GW2 being the latest one, originally it was supposed to be solo able, but more and more they're altering it with group material, it's basically now following the WoW pattern.
Now the question is how far does CCP intend to take it?
Are they trying to force people into player participation? If so that's likely to fail.
Storyline and side games (mini games) content would be one my concerns as that seems to suggest a move more towards a theme park rather than a sandbox.
Talking of sandboxes, trying to force people to participate with others in the game directly is not sandboxish.
Although I think trying to force people to group is a mistake, my main concern at this time is of this game slowly turning into a just another theme park. |
Noc Norris
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:37:00 -
[198] - Quote
I been playing solo for awhile at times not by choice but by situations in RL,
I log on all sorts of times during the night or day so 1. I don"t have a preferred time zone. 2. my kids have sports summer activities after school activities... I am retired so I try to make in almost every day at least just to say hi worst case scenario.
But a specific corp or alliance has so many activities, roams that take hours to just patrol and kill a few to none frigates. so I try not to disrespect them by just logging on and not joining their fleets. as I wish I could find a friendly corp that I can log on do roams and have fun pve and pvp wise be part of the eve life if not to just get out of my RL and enjoy it with friends on comms.
So I stay to myself try incursions,or do a lot of level 4 missions or just log in chat skills up and log off. I do wish I can play with friends but until then its solo life for me and funny how some might not solo pilots but alas we have no choice. I've done the mothership for over a year thing, the alliance for few years in 0.0 space the pvp stuff now I just want to chill and have fun without being told I have to do this or that or be on at a certain time or get a credit check before I can log on comms.
My main is closing in on 100 mil sp all mainly 99% combat and I find solo play relaxing at times without the bs of other players or politics and I wish all solo'ers a salute and fly safe. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
938
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:49:00 -
[199] - Quote
Six Six Six wrote:GW2 being the latest one, originally it was supposed to be solo able, but more and more they're altering it with group material, it's basically now following the WoW pattern.
So GW2 is your only example? Can you provide anything suggesting some link between tangible increases in the ratio of solo to non-solo content and a decline in subscriptions, activity, projected growth or anything of the sort?
So far this is all sounding like you pulled it completely from your butt. You made a pretty bold and specific statement, I'd like to see even a shred of support. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that so far you might have as well claimed that sasquatches are really an ancient race of martian refugees. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
619
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:00:00 -
[200] - Quote
Sebastian N Cain wrote:It's not that people have a problem with solo players. Everyone is cool with that.
The problem is when solo players think that solo means "no one is allowed to interfere with me".
Then people tend to get a little bit testy.
I agree 100% with this. The more creative solo player will adopt a more active attitude such as:
"Hmmm... EVE is a big game with lots of choices... there's 100 different ways I can mess with you and make you poor, cry or **** blood. Which method will give me the most amusement value today ?"
Nothing wrong with solo players. Just some of them need to realize they aren't alone in "the world".
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
|
Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:52:00 -
[201] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Six Six Six wrote:GW2 being the latest one, originally it was supposed to be solo able, but more and more they're altering it with group material, it's basically now following the WoW pattern. So GW2 is your only example? Can you provide anything suggesting some link between tangible increases in the ratio of solo to non-solo content and a decline in subscriptions, activity, projected growth or anything of the sort? So far this is all sounding like you pulled it completely from your butt. You made a pretty bold and specific statement, I'd like to see even a shred of support. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that so far you might have as well claimed that sasquatches are really an ancient race of martian refugees.
I've played GW2, I take it you haven't. I know what they promised at the beginning and they didn't keep to their promise, a lot of the new content is for guilds (5 or more people iirc) silly retro side games and a living story which seems to be mainly about collecting achievement points.
Played 10 other MMOs and some of those did similar things at least where group content was concerned.
Before posting what you replied to I already checked your previous posts in this thread to see where you stood and on this we're at opposite ends of the argument. So I'm not going to waste my time getting the information you want. If you really want that information then I'm sure you could find it. But then again what figures will a game's company release in terms of membership, those playing, active accounts or just number of accounts. But in the last two months of playing there was a noticeable drop in players on the server I was on.
Although solo content is not that much of a concern to me personally where this game is concerned I still think a move to try and force people to group is a big mistake.
Like I said though my main concern is this game possibly just becoming another theme park.
Edit: see the forums still eat the posts, just as well I save everything. |
Adunh Slavy
823
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:33:00 -
[202] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote: Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.
The problem is that there are already pre-determined game mechanics that prevent players from fully interacting with other players, which helps out solo players against all other players and is against the sandbox mentality. Most agree that removing the mechanics completely is not a good idea. Tweaks here and there are needed to balance the current situation, just like anything else.
Like what? What can a solo player do on Eve, that can't be joined in cooperation with another, or interrupted by another? Ship spin? Stare at the walls in the CQ? Ok, I'll have to give you those. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 23:04:00 -
[203] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:I don't have the playtime to be in a corp. I refuse to burden others with my lack of attention to the game. By the same token, when I finally do get in game, I want to do what I want, not get roped into something else. Corps are awesome if you have the time and motivation to participate though. Solo Eve simply suits my lifestyle. This is a really common misconception about player corps. My corp asks me to do...exactly nothing. Zilch, nada. I do as I please, if I see someone needs help (need boosts for some mining or ratting fleet, needs a cyno etc etc) I do it, IF I want to. There are LOTS or player corps like mine, in fact mine is more likely the model for an EVE corp than the draconian "control everything you do" type corps. "Soloing" isn't a bad thing, but making silly excuses for not being in a player corp (instead of just saying "i don't like being bothered by other people) is kind of a bad thing. No one cares why you don't do something, do as you please.
I agree with this in full. I work 40 hours a week and still I find enough time not only to play Eve, but even to run a small corporation. Granted, at times it's a struggle for survival against many hostile groups with more ISK, more time and more manpower. But to me that's also the charm of the game. By grouping up with an Alliance we have more fleets to join, and more people to group up and do whatever the hell we feel like doing at that time. Basicly I log in, determine what I want to do, and join a fleet or head out solo. Most things expected of me as CEO don't take a huge percentage of my playtime. I bet I could run a small Alliance and still find the time to make babies. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
940
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 00:12:00 -
[204] - Quote
Six Six Six wrote:I've played GW2, I take it you haven't...blah blah blah
Ok, so you're utterly full of ****.
NP, happens to the best of us.
|
Ranzabar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 01:04:00 -
[205] - Quote
No date this weekend? Just go solo. That's what I do. Abide |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
81
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 02:03:00 -
[206] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:EI Digin wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote: Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.
The problem is that there are already pre-determined game mechanics that prevent players from fully interacting with other players, which helps out solo players against all other players and is against the sandbox mentality. Most agree that removing the mechanics completely is not a good idea. Tweaks here and there are needed to balance the current situation, just like anything else. Like what? What can a solo player do on Eve, that can't be joined in cooperation with another, or interrupted by another? Ship spin? Stare at the walls in the CQ? Ok, I'll have to give you those. Log in, set skill queue, log out. |
Tiberius Amzadee
The Night Stalker Syndicate
103
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 04:23:00 -
[207] - Quote
Log in, set skill queue,whine on forums, log out.-Fixed it. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 04:33:00 -
[208] - Quote
I think rather than tightening up mechanics to force group play relaxing the mechanics in regards to solo play would have a more positive effect for everyone. ,
The only real solo viable gameplay is care-bear play. L4's, mining and trading. Solo PvP is possible but it's risk reward balance is extreme in the negative.
This game is a PvP game, that's it's core function. I don't think anyone would complain if there was more small group or solo PvP available, even solo PvP is not really solo, you're interacting.
With the introduction of anti-solo PvP mechanics (remote assist modules, gang only leadership buffs) it's really not worthwhile taking on a small gang solo. If I'm up against 2 players vs myself I'm already at a big disadvantage without having to worry about them magically getting more EHP, faster cap, faster lock, etc from leadership as well as remote reps, transferring cap etc etc.
It's really absurd logic that a force multiplier is given to the force with the most ships. They already have the numbers advantage.
What's my point? People who don't want to group with others might at least want to fight others which is not solo but the mechanics don't really allow this. And the only other solo options are quitting, care bear pure solo vs npc L4, or trading or mining. None of which are interacting with other players.
Fix the bizarre magical mechanics favouring numbers and you may find less pure solo and more small gang / solo PvP. |
Mik Nostrebor
Thirtyplus Spaceship Samurai
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 05:34:00 -
[209] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:I...
The other major thing is that they feel solo players don't bring any emergent gameplay to the sandbox, so they don't contribute anything to the game.
...
Um, I do not pay money for a game so that I can bring you anything. If you want me to bring you anything (emergent game play or whatnot) then you should pay me for it. The arrogance of players who decide other players should revolve around them! Emergent gameplay is a nice side effect of Eve's model, but it is not the duty of each player to contribute to it!
If you want this then you go ahead and add it to the game with others of a similar mindset. This is a sandbox (that I pay for as much as you do) and I should be able to play in it however I wish.
Note, that I am not a full time solo player at all, I am just making a point about people who expect other players to play like them.
M
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Saira Rasielle
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 12:12:00 -
[210] - Quote
Honestly, i just suck at this game. PVP seems an impenetrable tangled mass of ideas where i can't even find the loose end of one thread.
Industry... again, i just don't know where to start.
My point for posting at all is because I really want to do things in this game. But I've been unlucky in my attempts to learn and in the people i seek guidance from.
TL;DR I've had a rough time and I just want to get involved in something more than 'Lets blow stuff up just to get a highscore'. I could play galaga for that. I've been at this game for 3 years+ and have yet to truly get into it.
But i still want to. I'm still Trying. |
|
The VC's
Spack Force 5
144
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 12:35:00 -
[211] - Quote
There is a distinction between playing solo and flying solo. I mostly fly solo but I am in touch with other likeminded players through intel channels and forums and such. I certainly feel part of a player community. My choice to fly solo often has more to do with RL patterns than preferred playstyle and I suspect that may be behind many other players decision to go solo too. One in five people are Chinese. There are five people in my family, so one must be Chinese. It's either my mum, my dad, my older brother Colin or my younger brother Ho-Cha-Chu. But I think it's Colin |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1203
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 12:46:00 -
[212] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:Recently I've noticed a bit more emphasis on the forums about players who play eve 'solo'. From my impression from the forums people tend to dislike soloers (I've read 'eve is a multiplayer game, go back to...' quite a few times lately) so I'm interested to get a bit of a feedback as to what people do and don't like about soloers or solo activities in the game.
*Skip to below for tl;dr*
I'll start off by saying that I definitely have a vested interest in the topic. I am what I think most people would consider a solo player in eve. I pretty rarely group up with other people to accomplish things and having recently moved out to low sec spend most of my time running sites, ratting and generally managing PI on my own.
To me this doesn't mean I have no interaction with other players. I'm not playing a single player game. I'm duking it out on my own in a world full of other pilots that might be able to help me, that I might be able to benefit from or (more likely) are out to get me if I give them a chance. This makes my 'solo' experience far more exciting than anything any single player game could ever give me.
I'm a bit too much of a risk averse carebear at the moment to really get into PvP, but I love the excitement of getting chased around lowsec trying to dodge pirates etc. The way I'm on edge when hauling stuff the few jumps back to high sec. I love raiding WHs knowing that there's a good chance I could die to another enterprising pilot who knows their dscan well enough to drop probes right on me and land on me before I know whats going on. To me the 'solo' experience is so much enriched by the fact that other people are out there.
*tl;dr*
I understand that 'eve is a multiplayer game', and the best way to thrive is to join forces with others. But I like that even if it might not be the 'best' way to go, I can carve out my own piece of eve on my own if I want in a world that is affected by others.
So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?
Play any way you like. Seriously, if you are happy to play solo, then why change that ? It does not matter what anyone else wants you to think or say. You play the way you want, the way you feel comfortable with, period.
Sure, there are very good things about being in a decent corporation, but there's nothing in any rules anywhere that says you must not play solo. You may find yourself limited to a broad range of activities, but do what you do best and do it well.
Anyone trying to tell you how to play is bored. If people are advising you what to do, that's just advice, probably good advice, but you are still the individual making the game 'yours' in your own way.
o7
Personnel Division Director - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse CEO Sanctuary Pact Alliance --áSanctuary Pact |
Gealbhan
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
300
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 12:51:00 -
[213] - Quote
Saira Rasielle wrote:Honestly, i just suck at this game. PVP seems an impenetrable tangled mass of ideas where i can't even find the loose end of one thread.
Industry... again, i just don't know where to start.
My point for posting at all is because I really want to do things in this game. But I've been unlucky in my attempts to learn and in the people i seek guidance from.
TL;DR I've had a rough time and I just want to get involved in something more than 'Lets blow stuff up just to get a highscore'. I could play galaga for that. I've been at this game for 3 years+ and have yet to truly get into it.
But i still want to. I'm still Trying.
a month, a month had passed and you just had to necro it didn't ya. I hope you're proud of yourself as you eat your pudding for breakfast just think of all the forum regulars you've traumatized with you're careless disregard for the "no necro" rule. How you sleep at night in your sponge bob pj's is beyond me. Because of you I now have to go and cry to a pat boone record and rock back and forth in a sea of uncertainty because my forum world has been shattered.
|
Amarra Mandalin
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
662
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 13:09:00 -
[214] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:[quote=ShahFluffers]I
The crux of the matter is, they DO WANT to partake in social activities, they just have various constraints that prevent them from joining more organized entities.
Very true.
Quote:
Therefore the new gen of MMOs that have those "quick join" features are awesome for a "casual". Once I thought those quick join features would not create friendship but I found out it's not true. Out of 10 groups you will find the 1-2 guys you just like to stick around and add to the contact list for later.
I had a love/hate relationship with a quick join feature in another game. Eventually I met a player though this feature that landed me in a corp/guild of great people.
Conversely, I had a major sense of dread joining these things (or even groups formed from chat) as some players are so under-skilled and ill-equipped it made the endeavor a waste of time. And while the group would wipe out due to this, at least players didn't lose Isk.
I'm just not sure how you would implement something like this in EVE, when people's Isk is on the line. Then there are the eveeel people who might join just to see everyone killed.
I like the spirit behind the idea but people smarter than me would have to figure out how to make it work.
|
symolan
BamBam Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 15:37:00 -
[215] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: and they have got reasons as yours: RL > EVE.
and that's probably the reason some hate soloing. EVE should > RL in their view.
As I was leader of a guild in another MMO, I know how time-intensive these things can get.
And having kids, I don't have that time any more.
Also, I see the need for TS, but that collides with my current playstyle... (on a notebook, wife at the side watching TV... she just don't like me TSing:/)
so, it's a given that I keep up soloing. Unfortunately. |
OffBeaT
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:14:00 -
[216] - Quote
Most solo players realy dont have the time to corp it so they just hang out or they are so hunted for the past history of the game most newer players dont understand they cant be with everything going on.
The Past is the Past.. True Born out of Sansha's blood. A true Lord to Be! True Blood! |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
170
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 09:32:00 -
[217] - Quote
i don't want to offend anyone but I have a great dislike of MMO players in general. in my experience they tend to be dysfunctional toxic individuals. even the odd ones who don't outright annoy me I try to avoid doing stuff with.
I PLAY MMOs to compete against other players, MMO does not mean exclusively playing with, it can mean playing against. Unfortunately CCP and many EvE players don't appear to understand that. |
Cannibal Kane
Temple of Kane
2015
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 09:52:00 -
[218] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:I...
The other major thing is that they feel solo players don't bring any emergent gameplay to the sandbox, so they don't contribute anything to the game.
...
98% of my game play I do my own thing by myself. However my solitude does effects a vast array of corps and alliances. Just because I do not play well with others does not mean I do not contribute in any way to others game play. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Jonny Monroe
Unlicensed Medical Professionals
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 09:57:00 -
[219] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:i don't want to offend anyone but I have a great dislike of MMO players in general. in my experience they tend to be dysfunctional toxic individuals. even the odd ones who don't outright annoy me I try to avoid doing stuff with.
I PLAY MMOs to compete against other players, MMO does not mean exclusively playing with, it can mean playing against. Unfortunately CCP and many EvE players don't appear to understand that.
A very quick look around these forums confirms your first statement about MMO players. EVE is in my top 5 list of worst game communities, alongside XBL and youtube.
On the topic at hand; I play small corp play with my friends - Missions when we need to buffer the wallet and lowsec roaming when we don't. However, I find myself with more time to play than them (I work form home) and as a result I do a lot of solo play.
The thing about solo content in EVE is there isn't any. Everything you CAN do as solo is designed to be done better by groups. There could be a number of reasons for this; either CCP doesn't want any solo content, is afraid what true solo PVE content might do to the economy, or just can't be bothered to properly balance it. Mission running is one of the more common solo activities, but because it can be done in groups they have to balance around that, both in difficulty and reward. Would I like to see some special missions with Unstable Acceleration Gates that self destruct after one use, enforcing solo missions that are properly balanced to provide a challenge to the solo player and not the group? Sure. But it's CCPs game and if they don't want to support that playstyle they don't have to. Like any business, if you don't support a specific type of customer you won't have that customer for long. CCP know this, so they've obviously considered the potential gains/losses of supporting solo play and decided against it. Which means that solo players are either a significant minority or are happy with shoehorned content not really designed for them. I don't have the data to say which it is, but I suspect the latter. |
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
266
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 09:58:00 -
[220] - Quote
The guy who runs the 100-ship ice mining multi-box farm plays "solo." He seems to enjoy the game. And CCP sure enjoys his $1,500 per month. |
|
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 09:58:00 -
[221] - Quote
Amarra Mandalin wrote: Conversely, I had a major sense of dread joining these things (or even groups formed from chat) as some players are so under-skilled and ill-equipped it made the endeavor a waste of time. And while the group would wipe out due to this, at least players didn't lose Isk.
I'm just not sure how you would implement something like this in EVE, when people's Isk is on the line. Then there are the eveeel people who might join just to see everyone killed.
I like the spirit behind the idea but people smarter than me would have to figure out how to make it work.
Just like LFG and LFR was implemented in THAT game.
EvE is like WoW with the ninjas and the hunter that pulls the boss or mob so he can fiend death while others die (and get the repair bill). No different than the guy asking in incursions to join a fleet, you have no idea what he's upto even as an innocent Logi 5.
Each game offers risk vs reward.
It would be nice to have something similar to what RIFT had with dynamic groups. Loot is automatically divided via the goodie bag technique (or can be deposited in the station you last left, via using all those NPC haulers in this game). That would encourage players to mix and mingle and socialize, and train in learning how to fleet (as many don't know it's mechanics). That's group PvE without the hassles of trying to get a group together (which even in corps in EvE is a chore).
And if you want to encourage PvP while even mining, this is a technique perfect for it. Mining zone pops up, miners and protectors arrive, as well as James and crew. Then mining will be interesting as they watch the fireworks show as protectors and James et al go toe to toe. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
Nuglord
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:20:00 -
[222] - Quote
I've done a little bit of solo, nothing major, mostly frigates.
Two of the biggest pitfalls of a solo player are that many times, people playing by themselves have a sense of entitlement, i.e. being upset after a dishonored 1v1, or getting frustrated with enemy e-war, and feeling like you'll never accomplish anything and that you're just wasting your time.
As for the first point, its important to remember that Eve is indeed a sandbox, and no matter how frustrated you become, nobody will ever be obligated to play the game the way you want them to because that is how it is fundamentally designed. Everybody gets a little irritated at times, especially when you lose a close fight. The important thing is that even if you do end up smacking them a little, that you learn from it and better yourself as a pilot, and as a person by improving your attitude and picking better fights.
In regards to feeling like you're wasting your time, I believe it's up to the player to decide if that's true for themselves. If you're not having fun, there's no reason to keep doing it. There are plenty of corporations out there with more relaxed CTA or otherwise mandatory fleet policies which are perfect places to still get experience in fleets, but have some more reliable territory to practice flying solo, picking fights, and the like.
Don't let what you think is the "cool" way to play burden you into something you don't want to be doing. That said, if you are having trouble with fits, there are a massive variety of resources available to help you. I would check the killboards of known solo pilots and see what kinds of things they're flying, it might give you a starting point for something to try. Additionally, always remember that you shouldn't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Best of luck! |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
170
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:40:00 -
[223] - Quote
Nuglord wrote:I've done a little bit of solo, nothing major, mostly frigates.
Two of the biggest pitfalls of a solo player are that many times, people playing by themselves have a sense of entitlement, i.e. being upset after a dishonored 1v1, or getting frustrated with enemy e-war, and feeling like you'll never accomplish anything and that you're just wasting your time.
As for the first point, its important to remember that Eve is indeed a sandbox, and no matter how frustrated you become, nobody will ever be obligated to play the game the way you want them to because that is how it is fundamentally designed. Everybody gets a little irritated at times, especially when you lose a close fight. The important thing is that even if you do end up smacking them a little, that you learn from it and better yourself as a pilot, and as a person by improving your attitude and picking better fights.
In regards to feeling like you're wasting your time, I believe it's up to the player to decide if that's true for themselves. If you're not having fun, there's no reason to keep doing it. There are plenty of corporations out there with more relaxed CTA or otherwise mandatory fleet policies which are perfect places to still get experience in fleets, but have some more reliable territory to practice flying solo, picking fights, and the like.
Don't let what you think is the "cool" way to play burden you into something you don't want to be doing. That said, if you are having trouble with fits, there are a massive variety of resources available to help you. I would check the killboards of known solo pilots and see what kinds of things they're flying, it might give you a starting point for something to try. Additionally, always remember that you shouldn't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Best of luck! I liked your post however I do think its the fleet / gang people that really feel a sense of entitlement rather than the solo types. As I soloer I have accepted that and adapted to the idea that multiple pilots have an advantage with multiple ships, dedicated EWAR, exclusive use of rep drones, cap, armor, shield transfer, leadership buffs, link buffs but they tend to still whine and moan at any suggestion of improving solo play despite any buff to solo play never outweighing the natural advantage of multiple pilots and dedicated ship types into a gang. |
Kordus Aelar
University of Caille Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:45:00 -
[224] - Quote
So I have been playing for about 10 days now. All solo. And for now, I am fine with this for several reasons.
1. I am getting into EVE at my own pace. I am not a "jump into the deep end and learn to swim when I sart drowning" kind of guy. I like to ease into things. I can figure out what it is in New Eden that I want to do, without the pressures of a Corp trying to push me in their preferred direction.
2. I am flying around in hisec. I don't expect to see many people around to group up here anyway. So I haven't really had the opportunity to team up yet.
3. My initial choice of profession (exploration) kinda lends itself to a lot of solo play.
4. I am very deliberate when choosing to be social. Asking questions in help chat is an exception. This is why it is always hard for me to find a guild in my games.
5. Perhaps most importantly, I just plain flat out don't trust a single one of you. I have read and heard the horror stories of people getting scammed, ransomed, podded for no reason and all sorts of other nastiness. If it happens to me, it happens. But my guard is waaaaay up.
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:59:00 -
[225] - Quote
Kordus Aelar wrote:So I have been playing for about 10 days now. All solo. And for now, I am fine with this for several reasons.
1. I am getting into EVE at my own pace. I am not a "jump into the deep end and learn to swim when I sart drowning" kind of guy. I like to ease into things. I can figure out what it is in New Eden that I want to do, without the pressures of a Corp trying to push me in their preferred direction.
2. I am flying around in hisec. I don't expect to see many people around to group up here anyway. So I haven't really had the opportunity to team up yet.
3. My initial choice of profession (exploration) kinda lends itself to a lot of solo play.
4. I am very deliberate when choosing to be social. Asking questions in help chat is an exception. This is why it is always hard for me to find a guild in my games.
5. Perhaps most importantly, I just plain flat out don't trust a single one of you. I have read and heard the horror stories of people getting scammed, ransomed, podded for no reason and all sorts of other nastiness. If it happens to me, it happens. But my guard is waaaaay up.
Alt player. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
175
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 11:25:00 -
[226] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Before anyone posts the obvious "we are solo and we fund eve and CCP are stupid because they listen to forum trolls".
CCP knows exactly who's paying their bills, they have a section of their staff dedicated to knowing who pays their bills.
You can post random data from eve, but CCP has all the data, they don't need you and your data is irrelevant.
If CCP decides to kill off solo play than it's based on data that is superior to your random guess.
I'll be here, learning, adapting and making more isk.
You know, that is so important that it needs repeating.
Eve employ a team of ecconomist, led by one of Europe's most respected people in that field. My wife used to teach ecconomics at our local Uni and she was familier with his works, and she knows squat about gaming.
It doesn't matter who you are, the leader of the biggest null sec alliance pigged of at 'erks' like me who are nibbling away at their exploration resources. Or being a solo 'erk' like me doing my own thing, where I want and when I want no matter what anybody else says. Well no matter what anybody who has nothing to do with CCP says!
For me, the game doesn't need changing for me to solo, and when it does change as Eve often does, I will have to review my 'lines' to see where my brand of solo play needs to be altered. |
Lina Thamaris
Vicis Inter Astrum
8
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 11:31:00 -
[227] - Quote
Xavier Quo wrote:Me too. Solo losec exploration, avoid pirates, interacting with random people on your journey, that is what eve is for me.
I think sometimes CCP doesn't get that for a lot of people it's a time thing. Sometimes I can only play for an hour or two a week due to work and RL interests. Waiting around for fleets etc is simply not an option for me 90% of the time and I'm guessing for a lot of others as well.
Incentivising group play simply won't work on me, no matter how big the incentive, and making it obvious that you are losing out for being solo in certain situations is a huge mistake in game design.
The time issue is my main reason why I mostly do things solo, too. All the group activities just take too much time. I only every have a maximum of 2 hours online time in the evening, and that's just not enough for any type of multiplayer. It would be great if there were more options that require less time investment that are geared towards multiplayer. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 11:44:00 -
[228] - Quote
Lina Thamaris wrote:Xavier Quo wrote:Me too. Solo losec exploration, avoid pirates, interacting with random people on your journey, that is what eve is for me.
I think sometimes CCP doesn't get that for a lot of people it's a time thing. Sometimes I can only play for an hour or two a week due to work and RL interests. Waiting around for fleets etc is simply not an option for me 90% of the time and I'm guessing for a lot of others as well.
Incentivising group play simply won't work on me, no matter how big the incentive, and making it obvious that you are losing out for being solo in certain situations is a huge mistake in game design. The time issue is my main reason why I mostly do things solo, too. All the group activities just take too much time. I only every have a maximum of 2 hours online time in the evening, and that's just not enough for any type of multiplayer. It would be great if there were more options that require less time investment that are geared towards multiplayer.
I've always said my wish is for one day we'll have a MMO that allows solo play (or at most CO-OP, as some of us play with friends and family) offline, but we connect online to socialize and/or to market with others. This way the pressure to hurry is gone, and we can do RL stuff while still gaming (why folks are AFKing, as we're multitasking RL and online "life").
Remember that Christmas season in WoW back in 2009 and doing a dungeon in LFG, for example. Bunch of ladies from around the country, and we're baking for the holidays while still trying to level toons. We were in the dungeons, but took breaks to check the cookies and cakes, washing dishes and other things. A normally 20 minute run, turned out to be over 3hrs. It was fun overall, and the time it took to complete it was oblivious to us.
The big thing about MMOs isn't so much the grouping, it's the socialization and all things connected to it. It's not a FPS game of 30 minute matches, it's a long term time sink that's suppose to be more than just killing things. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
8105
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 12:07:00 -
[229] - Quote
simply put, haters gonna hate. You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it? Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |
Rico Minali
The Straw Men
1309
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 12:08:00 -
[230] - Quote
Good post.
After years of huge coalition play, I actually play more or less solo now, in a small corp with another player, we arn't on at the same time very often and we simply do as we please. We have some communal chat channels and so on, and of course interact with players all the time, so to be frank no one really plays Eve solo anyway. You may do things by yourself but you are never alone in the game.
Play how you want and don't listen to the haters from either side. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
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Kordus Aelar
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 18:48:00 -
[231] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Kordus Aelar wrote:So I have been playing for about 10 days now. All solo. And for now, I am fine with this for several reasons.
1. I am getting into EVE at my own pace. I am not a "jump into the deep end and learn to swim when I sart drowning" kind of guy. I like to ease into things. I can figure out what it is in New Eden that I want to do, without the pressures of a Corp trying to push me in their preferred direction.
2. I am flying around in hisec. I don't expect to see many people around to group up here anyway. So I haven't really had the opportunity to team up yet.
3. My initial choice of profession (exploration) kinda lends itself to a lot of solo play.
4. I am very deliberate when choosing to be social. Asking questions in help chat is an exception. This is why it is always hard for me to find a guild in my games.
5. Perhaps most importantly, I just plain flat out don't trust a single one of you. I have read and heard the horror stories of people getting scammed, ransomed, podded for no reason and all sorts of other nastiness. If it happens to me, it happens. But my guard is waaaaay up.
Alt player. If you are suggesting that my character is someone's alt, you are 100% wrong.
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
397
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 18:58:00 -
[232] - Quote
Kordus Aelar wrote:If you are suggesting that my character is someone's alt, you are 100% wrong.
It's not what you state is the tip off, it's how you state it...complete with cultural nuances. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Kordus Aelar
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 19:33:00 -
[233] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Kordus Aelar wrote:If you are suggesting that my character is someone's alt, you are 100% wrong.
It's not what you state is the tip off, it's how you state it...complete with cultural nuances.
either way, you are still 100% wrong. but it doesn't matter, you are gonna think what you are going to think. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
82
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 21:47:00 -
[234] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Kordus Aelar wrote:If you are suggesting that my character is someone's alt, you are 100% wrong.
It's not what you state is the tip off, it's how you state it...complete with cultural nuances. Your posts make it obvious all your EVE characters are alts of WoW character. Just saying. |
samualvimes
Aliastra Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 21:53:00 -
[235] - Quote
Davis TetrisKing wrote:Recently I've noticed a bit more emphasis on the forums about players who play eve 'solo'. From my impression from the forums people tend to dislike soloers (I've read 'eve is a multiplayer game, go back to...' quite a few times lately) so I'm interested to get a bit of a feedback as to what people do and don't like about soloers or solo activities in the game.
*Skip to below for tl;dr*
I'll start off by saying that I definitely have a vested interest in the topic. I am what I think most people would consider a solo player in eve. I pretty rarely group up with other people to accomplish things and having recently moved out to low sec spend most of my time running sites, ratting and generally managing PI on my own.
To me this doesn't mean I have no interaction with other players. I'm not playing a single player game. I'm duking it out on my own in a world full of other pilots that might be able to help me, that I might be able to benefit from or (more likely) are out to get me if I give them a chance. This makes my 'solo' experience far more exciting than anything any single player game could ever give me.
I'm a bit too much of a risk averse carebear at the moment to really get into PvP, but I love the excitement of getting chased around lowsec trying to dodge pirates etc. The way I'm on edge when hauling stuff the few jumps back to high sec. I love raiding WHs knowing that there's a good chance I could die to another enterprising pilot who knows their dscan well enough to drop probes right on me and land on me before I know whats going on. To me the 'solo' experience is so much enriched by the fact that other people are out there.
*tl;dr*
I understand that 'eve is a multiplayer game', and the best way to thrive is to join forces with others. But I like that even if it might not be the 'best' way to go, I can carve out my own piece of eve on my own if I want in a world that is affected by others.
So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?
The way I see it is that EVE can be played in a solo way and that should in no way be taken away from people to be able to play outside of a group. HOWEVER noone should be able to shut out the multiplayer part from affecting them.
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maCH'EttE
Mafia Redux Phobia.
43
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 21:59:00 -
[236] - Quote
Thank CCP, fonzie/rise and all the rest of the team for burying solo/small gang into the mud and taking a nice dump on it. |
Kordus Aelar
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 22:00:00 -
[237] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:Kordus Aelar wrote:If you are suggesting that my character is someone's alt, you are 100% wrong.
It's not what you state is the tip off, it's how you state it...complete with cultural nuances. Your posts make it obvious all your EVE characters are alts of WoW character. Just saying.
I guess.
Not sure where that comes from, especially since I haven't played WoW since TBC. And since this is my only character thus far.
But ok, sure. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
82
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 22:03:00 -
[238] - Quote
No, it was not aimed to you, but to Ace, who posts about WoW. Her alt comment was so weird that I felt temptation to make that comment. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
403
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 22:16:00 -
[239] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:No, it was not aimed to you, but to Ace, who posts about WoW. Her alt comment was so weird that I felt temptation to make that comment.
Not weird. If you were on the WoW forums with t-h-a-t many alts posting, you'll spot things like that out of habit. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
82
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 22:19:00 -
[240] - Quote
What makes it weird is how it has no bearing whatsoever on the topic or points presented. |
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Kordus Aelar
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 22:27:00 -
[241] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:What makes it weird is how it has no bearing whatsoever on the topic or points presented.
no, what makes it weird is how incredibly wrong he is, and how incredibly convinced he is, despite being so incredibly wrong. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
403
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 22:28:00 -
[242] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:What makes it weird is how it has no bearing whatsoever on the topic or points presented.
No weirder than you commenting about it, which has no bearing whatsoever on the topic of points presented. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Kordus Aelar
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 22:31:00 -
[243] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:No, it was not aimed to you, but to Ace, who posts about WoW. Her alt comment was so weird that I felt temptation to make that comment.
My apologies. |
Jimmy Morane
Aurora Novae Aetatis Expoit This Mf's
100
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 22:47:00 -
[244] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Anna Karhunen wrote:What makes it weird is how it has no bearing whatsoever on the topic or points presented. No weirder than you commenting about it, which has no bearing whatsoever on the topic of points presented.
What's really weird is your constant references to WoW.......in almost every thread no matter the subject. It's like a guy who gets a new girlfriend and constantly talks about the old one. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1379
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 22:49:00 -
[245] - Quote
Play your own game. Nothing else matters. If listening to pre-pubescent FCs rage over a headset is your thing, rock on. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
403
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 22:53:00 -
[246] - Quote
Jimmy Morane wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:Anna Karhunen wrote:What makes it weird is how it has no bearing whatsoever on the topic or points presented. No weirder than you commenting about it, which has no bearing whatsoever on the topic of points presented. What's really weird is your constant references to WoW.......in almost every thread no matter the subject. It's like a guy who gets a new girlfriend and constantly talks about the old one.
Thing is...it's not the old one.
I didn't quit WoW to play EvE. I play both games.
Sometimes I play 4 MMOs at once.
Yeah, a multigamer. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 23:41:00 -
[247] - Quote
Ihazcheez Hashur wrote:.. I do find that those that like to PVP and prey on others are just sitting in the middle of their "spider webs" waiting hours for that odd industrial to stray through, or whatever.. I personally think they HATE it because IT IS possible to remain in high sec 100% of the time and have an infinite amount of fun without losing your stuff in otherwise pointless ganks or NULL SEC blobs. I does feel like there's a campaign to stranglehold high sec more and more to force risk averse out and into the spider webs to appease the <0.5 bored. I could not have said it better myself! "...A campaign to stranglehold High-Sec ... to force [players] into the spider webs to appease the <0.5 bored..." That's not some vague or eerie feeling you're having, that's the way the game is being designed. That's what the "<0.5 bored" have been clamoring for, literally for years! And that's what CCP has been giving them. The game is being designed to make High-Sec unpleasant, unproductive, and unappealing, in order to satisfy the need for victims in the lower security sectors.
Xavier Quo wrote:Incentivising group play simply won't work on me, no matter how big the incentive, and making it obvious that you are losing out for being solo in certain situations is a huge mistake in game design. CCP isn't "Incentivising group play." They hook you, then lure or force you into low-sec/null-sec by slowly designing all High-sec activities to be unpleasant, unproductive and unappealing.
CCP only listens to the "High-Sec is killing EVE" threads, for one very good reason: The <0.5 Predators are inherently motivated to promote the game, and encourage other people to try it. Whereas the "Why is PVE so horrible in this game" threads are ignored because in their very expression they are signaling people to "Stay as far away from EVE as you can!"
My fingers are crossed for "Star Citizen." |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
403
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 23:56:00 -
[248] - Quote
Spenser for Hire wrote:CCP isn't "Incentivising group play." They hook you, then lure or force you into low-sec/null-sec by slowly designing all High-sec activities to be unpleasant, unproductive and unappealing.
CCP only listens to the "High-Sec is killing EVE" threads, for one very good reason: The <0.5 Predators are inherently motivated to promote the game, and encourage other people to try it. Whereas the "Why is PVE so horrible in this game" threads are ignored because in their very expression they are signaling people to "Stay as far away from EVE as you can!"
My fingers are crossed for "Star Citizen."
What dictates the game is money.
CCP has two choices: make a game for the players to pay to play; or close the game because it's not how they designed it.
Since EvE is their flagship game, it behooves them to keep the doors open.
So if enough PvErs arrive to play EvE (say after Star Citizen is released, or even the hype about the game now) to offset the PvP player numbers, they would have to make some hard decisions as a company (just like Blizzard is doing with the increased competition in MMOs).
Oh, yeah EvE can change for the right amount of money. And PvE players tend to have plenty of disposable income to buy fluff......... "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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