I think Master Sansha needs to tweak your neural implants a bit. You seem to be displaying a larger-than-normal level of poor manners in comparison to your ilk. After all, with such a demeanor I doubt people would find Nation appealing!

The greatest irony of our time. Fire at me in Colelie and your precious CONCORD will vaporize you.

Does anyone have logs of the communications between the Republic and Federation fleets? I am very interested in seeing them as I've heard rumours that the Gallente were not very diplomatic.

Edit: I have received the logs.

I have spent half of my career in space being diplomatic to people who opened fire on me or allies. Often, I have managed to convince them to cease hostilities altogether or leave Republic territory.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet but I also find out very odd that there was radio silence on the Minmattar fleet for the latter half of the battle, as the Naglfar fought to the death. Does anyone else find this odd?

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."

Of course. It was just a Courier mission for Pator Tech School gone horribly awry.

I wouldn't say it went awry.

They accomplished their purpose.

I wouldn't say it went awry.

They accomplished their purpose.

And you destroyed your reputation for diplomacy when you took part in an illegal and immoral assault on Gallentean territory without first exploring other options.

They didn't get the shooter.

How did they accomplish their purpose?

The real horror is that he may be correct in his assessment.

We hear allot of, GÇ£you donGÇÖt understand our cultureGÇ¥, GÇ£you donGÇÖt respect our waysGÇ¥. Perhaps those in the former Republic should listen to their own advice.

Proponents of Gallentean civilization must learn that generosity and benevolence often breeds resentment in the beneficiary.

Minmatar culture, especially the variant that expresses itself in the former Republic, has become nothing more than a cliche, that has devolved into a self entitled cult of perpetual victim-hood.

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."

If it was real invasion, they would not jump 15 dred into Colleile, they would be alot more tactical, hit and run, cut supply lines etc.

This battle was ceremonial, for honor and to make a statement.

The Naglfar crews knew they were in inferior tactical position. They did not expect to win.

They martyr themselves, as Ray of Matar fedayeen.

And the Gallente go "duh why did they invade us."

This was not a hostile act, from certain point of view within the tribes. The "moderm" factions in the Republic will be horrified, but the traditionalists will say "It's just a ceremony, it needed to be done for honor."

Proponents of Gallentean civilization must learn that generosity and benevolence often breeds resentment in the beneficiary.

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."

If it was real invasion, they would not jump 15 dred into Colleile, they would be alot more tactical, hit and run, cut supply lines etc.

This battle was ceremonial, for honor and to make a statement.

The Naglfar crews knew they were in inferior tactical position. They did not expect to win.

They martyr themselves, as Ray of Matar fedayeen.

And the Gallente go "duh why did they invade us."

This was not a hostile act, from certain point of view within the tribes. The "moderm" factions in the Republic will be horrified, but the traditionalists will say "It's just a ceremony, it needed to be done for honor."

It's just part of the old ways, that many won't understand.

The problem isn't the generosity and benevolence. The problem is the condescending, patronizing attitude that tends to build up among those being generous and benevolent. We're not the Federation's children to be talked down to when they don't like our ways or methods. We don't owe them perfect obedience just because they've helped us out. We do not belong to the Federation.

They came to make a statement, and they made it.

The problem isn't the generosity and benevolence. The problem is the condescending, patronizing attitude that tends to build up among those being generous and benevolent.

This is some of the most ludicrous drivel I've ever read. It's obvious that, while you sit there in your armchair complaining that the Federation (not the Gallente, but the Federation, let's be precise here) doesn't understand the Republic, that you show a failure to understand the Federation that is equally as great.

If this was not a hostile act, then what was it? If it was not an invasion in miniature, then what was it? A statement? That's the excuse that terrorists always trot out to justify their acts. Is that how the Federation should view this? Are you sure that's what you want? The Federation doesn't exactly have the best record of responding proportionally to acts of terrorism - I mean to violence for symbolic purposes.

How should the Federation respond to this? I'm curious to know what you think. Now that the Republic has "made a statement", how should the Federation respond? To the tens of thousands of Federation citizens killed in the attack? How should the families of those citizens respond? How should their friends respond?

If you're suggesting the Republic wanted to make a statement, I'd say that they were successful. However, I don't thin that statement meant what they thought it meant.

Cipher, I would like to meet you some day. I would like to sit you down, and buy you a drink, and tell you a story about a friend of mine who was killed at Colelie. Then I would like to slap your face and never speak to you again. I'm sure you understand, I merely want to make a statement.

That they don't give a damn about the way their allies conduct their business?

That they have no problems breaking CONCORD law, risking their alliance and murdering thousands of men and women and throwing sending twice as many to their deaths, because they won't get their way when others than themselves are in the right?

That they're incompetent and have no idea how to conduct capital warfare?

Which statement did they make?

I see myself as a traditionalist, but I don't agree with this being simply ceremony. There was nothing honorable about what I saw in Colelie.

Our culture is rather fragmented, customs vary from tribe to tribe, clan to clan. I don't think any one person knows all of it.

I do know that mock battles are fairly common during disputes.

One village will send warriors to another village and call them out, then they will have a battle that feels pretty real, but nobody actually dies. It's a symbolic battle. Then the chiefs sit down and talk. The battles happen every night until the chiefs come to an agreement on their dispute.

Now imagine there is a Gallente village, and tribal warriors show up bristling with armor and weapons. The police show up and tell them to stand down, the warriors refuse, then the cops open up with automatic fire and a /real/ battle ensues where every single one of the tribal warriors is gunned down and 6 cops are left alive.

In my opinion that is essentially what happened in Coleile.

How should the Federation respond.

If the Federation is smart, they'll see it within its cultural context for what it is, and understand that mistakes were made on both sides.

If they're dumb, they'll view it from their own ethnocentric angle, get pushy and end up losing an ally.

On the Republic side, I know there's alot of arguing in the top brass.

I just hope it doesn't endanger my R&D with Duvolle and Creodron, or my security gor what it isig with Transstellar Shipping.

I'll be happy to have that drink but if you slap me I'll knock you into next week.

k bye

Our culture is rather fragmented, customs vary from tribe to tribe, clan to clan. I don't think any one person knows all of it.

I do know that mock battles are fairly common during disputes.

One village will send warriors to another village and call them out, then they will have a battle that feels pretty real, but nobody actually dies. It's a symbolic battle. Then the chiefs sit down and talk. The battles happen every night until the chiefs come to an agreement on their dispute.

Now imagine there is a Gallente village, and tribal warriors show up bristling with armor and weapons. The police show up and tell them to stand down, the warriors refuse, then the cops open up with automatic fire and a /real/ battle ensues where every single one of the tribal warriors is gunned down and 6 cops are left alive.

In my opinion that is essentially what happened in Coleile.

How should the Federation respond.

If the Federation is smart, they'll see it within its cultural context for what it is, and understand that mistakes were made on both sides.

If they're dumb, they'll view it from their own ethnocentric angle, get pushy and end up losing an ally.

On the Republic side, I know there's alot of arguing in the top brass.

I just hope it doesn't endanger my R&D with Duvolle and Creodron, or my security gig with Transstellar Shipping.

I'll be happy to have that drink but if you slap me I'll knock you into next week.

k bye