I have been comparing the stats on different fits on the gnosis to other racial BC's and it seems that either buffer or active armor fits don't even compare to a brutix's stats, brutix has better tank, dps, and speed only thing it is lacking is range. and on the shield side a ferox has by more tank, less dps, better range, and a bit slower. I thought the Jovian were supposed to be a far more superior race? I understand that you cant make it so OP that nothing stands a chance against it but I thought CCP would make it just a little OP so more people will use them.

[quote=Aron Binchiette]
You want to fit 2 projectiles 2 lasers 1 blaster and 1 missile launcher....yeah you can do that too.

Armor tanked she has a lot of EWAR space, Shield tanked she has a lot of Dmg / Nano room. Great fitting for her slot layout that leaves a lot of room to play around with armor or shield.

Armor Tanked the Gnosis is seriously lacking in CPU I was having problems fitting it without leaving 3 of the midslots empty and when having less EHP then a Brutix something is wrong, shield tanked the thing is too damn slow to be nano so that leaves it as a brawler which the ferox is king of shield brawling BC's. and I did try to look at al the stats and they just didn't seem to be enough good things about the setups to counteract its bad parts for me. I have not however tried every possible weapons setup I only tried Blaster and AC fits because those are the 2 I am best with.

Its OP because you can fit any weapon system to it and it is effective.
You want a missile armor ship. You got it.
Shield Laser ship? You got it
You want to fit 2 projectiles 2 lasers 1 blaster and 1 missile launcher....yeah you can do that too.


It has an equal boost to everything. And a slot layout that begs to be toyed with.

CPU is definitely the most glaring weakness of the hull.

Correct me if i-¦m wrong:

The Gnosis is a civil ship, not a battlecruiser. Don-¦t compare it with our battlecruisers - more like use the Opus Luxury Yacht to compare ;)

Any ship that has so many diverse options will (obviously) need to be sub par to the specialist "best in breed" hulls. Otherwise balance goes right out the window. If its better than a brutix today and a super drake tomorrow and myrmidon next teusday then very soon we won't see any of those others.

This is what (some) people believe the T3 cruisers should have been. Sub par at everything but infinitely able to just scrape by. So thank goodness our T3 boats aren't all like my poor legion.

The Gnosis is not a bad Battlecruiser. It's buffer tank is pretty standard.

In my opinion any BC with less EHP then a brutix is not a standard tank.

It has 6% less HP with twice the agility and 50% more Scan Res.

If this was a ship that was in normal supply I would agree, but considering this ship is in limited supply I why not make it better then al the other BC's by just a little in each of their roles so that there is more incentive to use it in pvp

it also has 17% less DPS and 13% slower and I have found in battle your scan res and agility on an armor ship are the least of your worries

I'll spot you the limited supply, but that really becomes a cost issue more than an incentive issue. At least until supply from a million alts taper off. Was there a bpc of any kind for these or were they one off ships? I never bothered to look into it and just assumed it was a novelty hanger ornament.

Also imagine the uproar if the gnosis out performed EVERY BC.

Instead a half dozen threads about how one omni hull is only average s&m gets flooded by end of the world threads about every BC on the eve of the skill changes. I'll pass on that.

So? Put a TD on it and or Duel Prop her or what not. It has six mids to the Brutix's four. Get creative, use that utility.

Different strengths. If you are more comfortable in a Brutix use it, the Gnosis isn't meant to replace anything.

To answer the op, the Gnosis is a gift and from the gifts of the last 10 years it is quite possibly the best they have given so be thankful they never just gave us a re-skinned shuttle.

yes but I want to use my gift and not be crippling my self in a fleet

Yes the being able to fit any weapon system is a nice perk but in no way is that OP and your example of fail fitting the highs, although I do understand what you mean, doesn't exactly complement your argument

Then use something else in a fleet.

good luck finding the CPU for that Fit,

and my point isn't that "the brutix is better than the gnosis" it is that for a limited ship it is sub par to all the other BC's why would I use my limited hull that will cost me 200m to replace when I can use the appropriate T1 hull and do that role better than the gnosis

Armor Tanked the Gnosis is seriously lacking in CPU I was having problems fitting it without leaving 3 of the midslots empty and when having less EHP then a Brutix something is wrong, shield tanked the thing is too damn slow to be nano so that leaves it as a brawler which the ferox is king of shield brawling BC's. and I did try to look at al the stats and they just didn't seem to be enough good things about the setups to counteract its bad parts for me. I have not however tried every possible weapons setup I only tried Blaster and AC fits because those are the 2 I am best with.

yes but I want to use my gift and not be crippling my self in a fleet

Correct me if i-¦m wrong:

The Gnosis is a civil ship, not a battlecruiser. Don-¦t compare it with our battlecruisers - more like use the Opus Luxury Yacht to compare ;)

To the first:
I think its cap and speed are why its bad. Its cap isn't good enough for lasers, its speed isn't good enough to take advantage of fast shield fits.

yes but I want to use my gift and not be crippling my self in a fleet

At 900m3 of space and 5 turrets, it's the best gas miner now, isn't it?

Venture.

I don't where this idea that shield ships are fast comes from. Speed tends in practical terms tends to be more about how long one can run the MWD than the raw speed of a BC.

For one, I don't believe it is of true Jove origin, SoCT was merely found by a Jovian.

Plain and simple, it is an exploration boat with a uniquely flexible load-out.

It has certain areas where it may shine, but you cannot hope to see every other BC mimicked well in one hull.

For one, I don't believe it is of true Jove origin, SoCT was merely found by a Jovian.

Plain and simple, it is an exploration boat with a uniquely flexible load-out.

It has certain areas where it may shine, but you cannot hope to see every other BC mimicked well in one hull.

The Gnosis is hands down better than any other battlecruiser. Why? NO PREREQUISITES

It is amazing no one seems to have noticed that. Show me another BC a total noob could fly

stuff

I have been comparing the stats on different fits on the gnosis to other racial BC's and it seems that either buffer or active armor fits don't even compare to a brutix's stats, brutix has better tank, dps, and speed only thing it is lacking is range. and on the shield side a ferox has by more tank, less dps, better range, and a bit slower. I thought the Jovian were supposed to be a far more superior race? I understand that you cant make it so OP that nothing stands a chance against it but I thought CCP would make it just a little OP so more people will use them.

EVE is not only about theoretical DPS. There are many more factors which can make a ship good... even those with just a few DPS or a low tank. But the Gnosis is really nice, good DPS with good tank and a high number of low and medium slots. I really do not understand why everybody is whining about this ship. You got it for free... and if you do not like it or do not find any uses for it then...

... give it away to me!

The Gnosis is hands down better than any other battlecruiser. Why? NO PREREQUISITES

It is amazing no one seems to have noticed that. Show me another BC a total noob could fly

The Gnosis is hands down better than any other battlecruiser. Why? NO PREREQUISITES

It is amazing no one seems to have noticed that. Show me another BC a total noob could fly

Yes, pretty amazing how the guy with all 5s in all racial cruisers and BC 5 would fail to notice this. Oh, wait...

What I have always wanted is a ship that could passive shield tank and shoot lasers, sadly the gnosis doesn't do an adequate job of passive shield tanking without a few SPRs. Needless to say that doesn't work so well with shooting lasers.

For all the skill it takes to fly and how much CCP charged me it should be uber powerful! Give me back my money and all the skill points I wasted learning to fly it back NOW!

You do notice, that the Gnosis is better then the Prophesy?

low slots: 7 <-> 7
med slots: 7 <-> 4
high slots: 6 <-> 5
weapons: 5 with bonus <-> 4
drones: 50m-¦ bonused <-> 75m-¦ bonused (5 med v 3 heavy)

shield: 5000 <-> 3000
armor: 5000 <-> 5500 (with resi bonus)

Over all you get a tiny bit less tank with MUCH more flexibility (4 slots more) and MUCH more DPS (7,5 laser|hybrid|missile|projektil <-> 4 laser) which is not depending on one weapon system.

[Gnosis, nice level 3 runner]
3*Tracking Enhancer II
3*Gyrostabilizer II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
2*Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

5*425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
[empty high slot]

3*Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x5

Not enough cap for Lasers? My alt has lasers, a DCU, and a Medium repper and it's cap stable.
Not enough CPU? My alt also has lasers, a HAM, armor mods, and Cap rechargers.

Gnosis fit

Damage Control Unit II
Prototype Energized Adaptive Membrane I
Medium Armor Repairer II
Dark Blood Adaptive Nano Plating
2x Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher @ Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I

Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II

Cap stable at 2.5%
577.1 DPS

[quote=Kazumi Kouvo]Not enough cap for Lasers? My alt has lasers, a DCU, and a Medium repper and it's cap stable.
Not enough CPU? My alt also has lasers, a HAM, armor mods, and Cap rechargers.

Gnosis fit

Damage Control Unit II
Prototype Energized Adaptive Membrane I
Medium Armor Repairer II
Dark Blood Adaptive Nano Plating
2x Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher @ Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I

Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II

Cap stable at 2.5%
577.1 DPS

what on earth is that for exactly?

Level 2/3s/Ratting.

Your fits are terrible for pve. Short range means you will burn yourself out of cap getting to each rat with mwd on almost full time and medium drones being shot up all the time unless you only deploy them onto things you're already next to...

This is a real fit:

[Gnosis, test]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Shield Boost Amplifier
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Medium Projectile Locus Coordinator I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I


Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x5

22+42 range with the 290 burst tank means everything is safe and easy. Totals 497 DPS at 21km and around 450 at 37km garde range. Furthest feasible engagement range is around 45km but best to be within 40 for optimal damage.

Now reason why artillery: this fit doesnt work with any other weapon type since the active shield fit means very little cpu left for weapons.

If you didn't notice the Gnosis has enough drone bay for one set of med and on set of light. I thought people understand it even if I don't put the 5 light in the drone bay ... my fault *g*.
And the range is absolut fine. Most level 3 missions don't need anythink above 30km anyway. And if you didn't read it .. I named it LEVEL 3 FIT! Cap is no problem even if you activate the MWD frequently. Fly some amarr ships and you will learn how to manage your cap ;).


Realy? This is a terrible slow setup for Level 3 missions. And even for ratting it's terrible slow.
4 gyros + 2 TE might look cool in EFT, ingame 3+3 is MUCH better and faster!
720mm do have a cool alpha .. but wast of cycle time if you alpha a 500 hp frig for 3000 *g*. And as soon as they are at 10km or less you don't hit them anymore.

Short:
- most level 3 mission don't need range above 30km which you can reach with Autocanons
- high alpha against level 3 ships is massive overkill
- sentrys ?? against what ?? I know only 1 level 3 storryline where you fight against battleships
- Faction booster + boost amp ... this two mods cost more then the hole ship. As long as you don't realy know what you do => FAIL as you will be ganged within hours ;)

If you attack other with "Your fits are terrible for pve." you should at last try to bring some real fits and no troll stuff.

It just sounds like you don't know how to pve effectively...

TE will be nerfed in about a week, 3rd TE after nerf will give so little it won't be worth it. Currently 3rd TE is questionable already and is only used on VERY high falloff ships like the mach.

Learn to separate your guns, sure it's easy just to group them up and blap things but it's far from optimal when using high alpha weapon systems like artillery and missiles.

At 10km or less you use drones, I thought that was a given.

Most level 3 missions that are worth doing like extravaganza and vengeance have spawns regularly over 50km away and in the case of angel extra 2nd and last room there are some even 70km+ away. 30km is also in deep falloff for autocannons meaning you do less than half of your "EFT DPS" at that range. Artillery will hit for almost full damage at 30km.

Sentries aren't only used against battleships, you stick a bouncers out they will shoot out to 60km+ and can easily pop small things on approach.

Faction booster costs 20m and you can happily downgrade the amp to a meta and it will drop your tank down to 278 and if you REALLY want to be cheap you can use a meta booster as well which takes tank down to 205. Seeing as this is a unique ship and is pretty resistant against ganking, I don't see why you shouldnt fit at least a faction booster on it.

I do know how to be effectiv, that's why I know your setup is nice in EFT but sucks when used in space ;).

The bonus you get from a 4th Gyro isn't enough to wast the slot it uses. 16 DPS more with EMP loaded? Rofl!
Better go with a Drone Damage or Signal Amp to lock faster. It will speed your PvE much more then creepy 16 DPS from 4 Gyros! Lock time will be an important factor if you ungroup your Artis and insta pop a lot of small ships in a very shot time!

TE isn't all about range, tracking speed is the second factor which will not be touched next patch!
And better tracking >>>> 4th gyro too if you use 720mm. Effective applied damage v EFT raw damage you know?
Even 650mm provide a faster ingame killspeed for level 3 then your setup. Better tracking, faster cycle time, nearly the same DPS (251 v 276 with your setup and standart EMP), same falloff, tiny bit less optimal.

You are right, there are some high bounty missions where you might want more range. But to be honest, most times you get this creepy little missions which are close range with mostly frigats.

Artis are nice for lazy guys (the one who normaly fly Drakes). Slow killspeed, NO MOVEMENT.
Autocanons are for real pilots who know each and every mission while sleeping ;).
And Amarr pilots know how to handle cap. No need to have EFT-cap for more then 1 minute *g*.

The gyro isn't for DPS, it's for cycle time... 1.5 seconds is a substantial amount of time for artillery. 3rd TE however is completely redundant. I found this out by actually FLYING things that have these fits, not EFT warrioring heavy pulses.

The Gnosis is not a bad Battlecruiser. It's buffer tank is pretty standard, example with the common DCU and buffer rigs for 1 LSE and 2 Invulns EHP is 56k or 1 1600 and 2 EANM's EHP is 70k which is pretty average for a BC and that is across the board with no resist weakness which is a unique feature. Her DPS is not bad either with 5 bonused turrets and 5 bonused drones up to mediums with an extra set of lights for Frigs, not great but okay with a full choice of main weapons. Good cap, normal BC speed with Cruiser align time and Scan Res which is unique and welcome. Armor tanked she has a lot of EWAR space, Shield tanked she has a lot of Dmg / Nano room. Great fitting for her slot layout that leaves a lot of room to play around with armor or shield. It has plenty of good quality.

All together the Gnosis's omni ability is unique but her stats make her an average Battlecruiser and those two other Battlecruiser you listed are worse than the Gnosis in certain other area's, which is a common type of criticism, pick one area where a ship is better than use it as an example of why another is bad ignoring everything else. Gnosis isn't terrible, just average, it would not be likely to see much more use than any other if it wasn't so expensive but it would see average use.

That is the only problem with the Gnosis, she is short on numbers and high on cost, that is why I hope she is introduced into full Battlecruiser production, a paint job can be used to keep the current collectors items.