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PvP vs Pk - or Empire Arenas?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Captain IceEye	Posted - 2005.10.14 03:13:00 - [1] This thread is inspired by the the thread from WolfgangH called "I dont get the mindset of pks in this game" First of the lack of game implemented rules in 0.0 is something I like. Palyer controlled stuff 4TW! But I think it is true that current fights in 0.0 are to a large extend PK (as in stronger killing weaker) and less PvP (as in even fight). I know this has been posted on the forums before, but I think a good way of introducing PvP (Even fights) to Eve would be the introduction of PvP arenas in empire space, with the rules and mechanics of these arenas optimized for even fights. I for my part beg CCP - give us some cool PvP arenas! (In addition to 0.0, that can stay as is)
Jex Jast	Posted - 2005.10.14 03:45:00 - [2] I'm not sure what to think about this. One one hand, it would be nice for training or getting a feel for PvP, but on the other hand, it would give people less reason to fight in 0.4 down. Especially if there were prizes for the winners. And I can't predict if anyone would use them anyway. ___________________________________________ [size=2][center][red]Job overflow. No new jobs accepted until this notice is removed.
Jak'ai	Posted - 2005.10.14 03:55:00 - [3] Whenever I see this arena stuff I have to wonder what exactly people are asking CCP to do. Form a corp called The Arena with all the likeminded people around here. Pick a system, set up some rules and have at it. What exactly is required on CCPs side to make "arena PvP" happen?
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2005.10.14 04:12:00 - [4] Why dont you instead have a player run Arena in 0.0 You dont need CCP for this idea. get in an alliance and discuss it. Declare a system an arena. Make a SS and put a Sphere of Secure cans there and say fighters gotta stay in the sphere. Spectators gotta stay outta the sphere. 1 on 1, 2 on 2, you set the rules, to the death or not, its up to you. Its not like an arena is gonna make those that only fight miners have to fight on even terms cause they just wont go. And anyone who would go is honorable enough to abide by the rules and if not then theres no glory for them anyways and you could just have all the other spectators go and gank em. You know what, i might steal this idea. Yep, i stole it, i give you no credit for my adaption of your idea. _______________________________________________
Tbone	Posted - 2005.10.14 05:02:00 - [5] Yeah lets do the EAB thing and have an arena. HOW ***** *. If you play this game, you are consenting to pvp. Dont need a damn arena for pvp. ----------------------------------------------- Unholy Killboard
Captain IceEye	Posted - 2005.10.14 05:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Tbone Yeah lets do the EAB thing and have an arena. HOW ***** *. If you play this game, you are consenting to pvp. Dont need a damn arena for pvp. Switch on your brain and read the original post again. Hope this helps.
babyblue	Posted - 2005.10.14 07:11:00 - [7] Edited by: babyblue on 14/10/2005 07:11:32 I totally agree. One of the main reasons people like to PvP in the first place is to up their stats on some ranking board. So much better if it was implemented IN GAME. Then of course you have your main point, which is that most PvP is PK'ing and that fights are only fair if by some lucky chance you happened to undock with the correct paper/scissors/stone for whoever you meet along the way. I would love to see arenas in Empire, with properly controlled mechanics. King of the Hill, etc. with prizes, yes. Would it reduce PvP in 0.4 and below? It would reduce PK'ing in 0.4 and below. Those who PvP for the right reasons (role play pirate, wars) would continue to do so. Those that just go "aaaahhhhhhhh!" when a pretty explosion lights up the night sky could go and watch in the arena. And to the guy who said "go choose a system and PvP in it, thats your arena" - the whole point of the arena is that it's mechanics will ensure fights are fair. Current mechanics positively encourage players to seek as unfair a fight as possible. It's a no brainer.
Malken	Posted - 2005.10.14 07:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Captain IceEye Originally by: Tbone Yeah lets do the EAB thing and have an arena. HOW ***** *. If you play this game, you are consenting to pvp. Dont need a damn arena for pvp. Switch on your brain and read the original post again. Hope this helps. he dont have to, he got the post right the first time. the E&B arenas was a joke. this is not earth & be-yawned, that game is dead now. this is EvE wich is a pvp game, so deal with it. you cant take the loss in .4 and below then dont go there, its your loss however as thats where the most fun in this game is.
BurnHard	Posted - 2005.10.14 07:20:00 - [9] Edited by: BurnHard on 14/10/2005 07:21:24 Originally by: Malken this is EvE wich is a pvp game, so deal with it. you cant take the loss in .4 and below then dont go there, its your loss however as thats where the most fun in this game is. You have totally missed the main advantage of Arenas: people who don't usually PvP would be encouraged to do so. Don't give us that "don't go there" crap. I live there and it isn't any more or less fun than anywhere else in Eve. Hell 0.0 isn't even fun if you are going to be like that. You think it's "fun" because you enjoy ganking haulers? Well, thats not my idea of fun at all.
Rendill	Posted - 2005.10.14 07:34:00 - [10] Why not have arenas? It may bring more 'carebears' into PVP. It would also enable betting !! in a controlled environment CEO
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2005.10.14 07:39:00 - [11] Originally by: babyblue And to the guy who said "go choose a system and PvP in it, thats your arena" - the whole point of the arena is that it's mechanics will ensure fights are fair. Current mechanics positively encourage players to seek as unfair a fight as possible. It's a no brainer. Again, you dont need a bunch of unnatural rules and constraits to do this, You dont even need CCP to do this. CCPs time is better spent on fixing bugs and adding more content and modules and ships and lovely stuff like that. How come you cant come up with your own rules and enforce them yourself? If there are the ebil pk'ers you seem to fear so much, dont give them the bm to the arena. Put the SS 100AU from the nearest object so its safe. Move the arena around. Hell you can do this in any 0.4 or lower system. If you make a corp to run this, you could do it in 1.0 systems if you wanted. You could put up a website with rankings of contestants, how to sign up, rules for the fights, whens the next match, etc. Why do CCP gotta waste resources on something you can easily do yourself? Can you even give me a good reason? _______________________________________________
babyblue	Posted - 2005.10.14 07:51:00 - [12] Edited by: babyblue on 14/10/2005 07:51:25 Originally by: Foomanshoe Again, you dont need a bunch of unnatural rules and constraits to do this, You dont even need CCP to do this. CCPs time is better spent on fixing bugs and adding more content and modules and ships and lovely stuff like that. How come you cant come up with your own rules and enforce them yourself? If there are the ebil pk'ers you seem to fear so much, dont give them the bm to the arena. Put the SS 100AU from the nearest object so its safe. Move the arena around. Hell you can do this in any 0.4 or lower system. If you make a corp to run this, you could do it in 1.0 systems if you wanted. You could put up a website with rankings of contestants, how to sign up, rules for the fights, whens the next match, etc. Why do CCP gotta waste resources on something you can easily do yourself? Can you even give me a good reason? Do you have time to organise this? If so, HOW? DO YOU HAVE A DAY JOB? DO YOU HAVE A LIFE? "The Amarr Championship", "The Gallante Championship", "Champion of Champions" (etc., etc.) - what do we have at the moment? "BOOGHA, I GOT GANKED AGAIN". This would be ADDED CONTENT to the game. CCP should do it. If you want me to enhance the game, please send me the source code. Thanks.
Andrue	Posted - 2005.10.14 08:13:00 - [13] I think it's a good idea but I don't agree with handing out prizes. I think it would be enough to provide some kind of guaranteed protection. I think a lot of people don't get into PvP because of the initial fear of losing their ship or clone. Providing a way for people to fight with a guarantee that combat will stop when they start losing structure would be enough. If people want to actually achieve something from combat they should be doing it for real. Practice combat should be just that, practice. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Teles666	Posted - 2005.10.14 08:17:00 - [14] CCP could do arena's, spectator modes, leagues and championships in game - thats added content. Players could do it themselves but the idea of forming a corp, waiting 24 hours to leave your own corp, then leaving again after the fight? Thats silly. if CCP stick a feature in that simply said authorise fight that would allow you and ONE other guy (or as many as you authorise) to fight it out in high sec. His mates simply could not interfere due to the current game mechanics (concord). TBH I think you should be able to fight with gang mates - stuff newbies who join gangs with strangers, they'll learn quick enough :)
WolfGang H	Posted - 2005.10.14 08:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Captain IceEye This thread is inspired by the the thread from WolfgangH called "I dont get the mindset of pks in this game" Fine by me. As long as I get full credit for the idea and each time a tourney is held I get 10% of the winnings. If 10% is good enough for God it's good enough for me. jk :) Really thuogh, I see no harm in some sort of a simple arena system where people can fight without losing their ships, or fight and lose ships while spectators make official bets handled by npcs so no one can cheat. ---------------------- Tis a gift to be free.
FubarSF	Posted - 2005.10.14 08:57:00 - [16] If you want an arena, go play a FPS. There is no need for CCP to add this feature. As stated above my post, go into 0.0 or form a corp to do this king of the hill nonsence.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:04:00 - [17] As long as in PvP anyone dies thy are always PK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head!
Moghydin	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:08:00 - [18] Edited by: Moghydin on 14/10/2005 09:08:36 If, and I mean IF, the arenas will be implemented it should be made by means of game mechanics. Nothing player-controlled can replace it. If it's player controlled, we'll see cheaters, pirate corps raiding the arenas, or gank fleets, waiting to warp in at any minute to help one of the fighting ships (doesn't that what we have sometimes on 1 vs 1's now). Many ppl like to cheat because they don't want to lose, either ISK, ships or pride. That's why only game features can provide clean arena environment. All the talk about player controlled arenas... well, get serious.
Barth3zzzNL	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:20:00 - [19] Id like arenas in empire tbh, hell thats the only thing i actually like about Wow. --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
babylonstew	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:28:00 - [20] well, when the jet can flagging comes in, you wont need an arena for 1 on 1 right? if 2 guys want a fight, 1 jats a can, the other takes from it, fly 20 paces and shoot???
Etto Neppeo	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:35:00 - [21] Here is some constructivism about possible implementation. Safe-Zone PvP locations. And no it won't replace low sec pvp - if people are afraid to lose ship or equipment, they won't risk them in low sec, arenas or not. Besides, people still need to earn money they spend on the equipment and ships to fight with... In low sec the activity could yield real profit while in the arenas player only looses money he paid to participate - arena service provided by some empire based NPC corp shouldn't be free. Even with totalizator, there is only one winner...
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:35:00 - [22] We don't need Arenas. But I wouldn't be totally against them if I could pod ppl and take their lewt as normally - we don't need any "safe-carebear-pvp-experience" arenas, we already got sisi.
Etto Neppeo	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:38:00 - [23] Sisi is irrelevant since it's not supposed to be used as fight arena as devs already stated. Only really old players can use it as such because the accounts are syncronized once per 6 months or something like that - I play for 3 months and my char is still about 1 month old on sisi (last time I checked at least).
Agnar Koladrov	Posted - 2005.10.14 10:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Nafri As long as in PvP anyone dies thy are always PK I do not agree with that Besides Elders Scroll: Oblivion I am also awaiting Dark & Light, last one is an other 1 shard open MMORPG world, like even only in a medieaval fantasy setting. In Dark & Light there was/is the same discussion going on about PvP in the same respect as to the low sec areas are in EVE. One post from the Dark & Light forums commes to mind, where one guy states a stuation: You`re riding your mount in the countryside als "high lvl" char and you come across an enemy char "half" you level. What do you do? Now I thought this was also a poll. One thing that came out of it that there are 3 kind of people, First ones would let him/her be because if would an an INCREDIBLE unfair fight. Second ones would attack withou thinking no matter what and kill the soab. Thirdly they were the ones who would wait and see if the other party would go hostile first. I see the second one as pking, because for the attacking party there is absolutly NO, how can you say, risk, honour, or challenge in slaying that half your lvl guy. Only to get a hard on/or what ever, of the kill to write done in some list. Bit if it would be a fight where opposed sides were somewhat equal, then I would say ok np. Back in EVE there`s one little problem with that, that is the contested space, you have to protect it somhow. And I see it fit that the NBSI rules applies there fully. Empire low sec on the other hand is an other matter, how to balsnce it I dunno, there have been several great ideas posted over the past few months. But look at the 3 points. Like I see it now, the majority on the forums today screaming HELLFIRE when PvP is concerned, are the second point people and everyone else who who is opposed to that kind of conduct. That is a thing that cannot be balanced in a open game like EVE.
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.10.14 10:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Foomanshoe Why dont you instead have a player run Arena in 0.0 You dont need CCP for this idea. get in an alliance and discuss it. Declare a system an arena. Make a SS and put a Sphere of Secure cans there and say fighters gotta stay in the sphere. Spectators gotta stay outta the sphere. 1 on 1, 2 on 2, you set the rules, to the death or not, its up to you. Its not like an arena is gonna make those that only fight miners have to fight on even terms cause they just wont go. And anyone who would go is honorable enough to abide by the rules and if not then theres no glory for them anyways and you could just have all the other spectators go and gank em. You know what, i might steal this idea. Yep, i stole it, i give you no credit for my adaption of your idea. Don't be so naive... ppl going to and from the arena would be ganked, the arena itself would be camped & ganked by a fleet looking to disrupt the "events". I think the whole premise of the idea is to have an area where ppl in Empire who want to start PvP'ing have a place to learn, etc... If they simply added Arena's in Empire systems in the form of instance complexes, I can't see how it would be a bad thing. It might get ppl over the fear of PvP, and maybe more of them would move out to 0.0... If anything, it would be something else this game has to offer players... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Frensezz	Posted - 2005.10.14 10:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Captain IceEye This thread is inspired by the the thread from WolfgangH called "I dont get the mindset of pks in this game" First of the lack of game implemented rules in 0.0 is something I like. Palyer controlled stuff 4TW! But I think it is true that current fights in 0.0 are to a large extend PK (as in stronger killing weaker) and less PvP (as in even fight). I know this has been posted on the forums before, but I think a good way of introducing PvP (Even fights) to Eve would be the introduction of PvP arenas in empire space, with the rules and mechanics of these arenas optimized for even fights. I for my part beg CCP - give us some cool PvP arenas! (In addition to 0.0, that can stay as is) Me smell WOW, EQ2, DAOC, LineAge2 etc.... A.U.C.
Raynaar	Posted - 2005.10.14 11:14:00 - [27] As a former Earth and Beyond player, I can tell you that they implemented this idea in that game and it was a dismal failure. Period. No one likes getting ganked. Period. Are arenas the answer? No. Do I know what the answer is? No. Can you plan to avoid ganks? YES. It's called covert ops and/or friends. Not a flame, just my thoughts after a quick read. -Ray
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.10.14 11:19:00 - [28] Edited by: Bhaal on 14/10/2005 11:19:06 Originally by: Raynaar As a former Earth and Beyond player, I can tell you that they implemented this idea in that game and it was a dismal failure. Period. No one likes getting ganked. Period. Are arenas the answer? No. Do I know what the answer is? No. Can you plan to avoid ganks? YES. It's called covert ops and/or friends. Not a flame, just my thoughts after a quick read. -Ray I don't see the arena's as gank avoidance, I see them as possibly a fun thing to do if they are implemented properly. Allowing players to bet on the outcome is one thing I would certainly be interested in... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Gonada	Posted - 2005.10.14 11:46:00 - [29] Please, do not bring your fantasy inspired mmorpg pvp arena talk here. if you want to pvp , goto 0.0 space and learn how to, but, a. make sure you have some skills, and know what they are and how they are best used. b. go in a disposable ship c. have fun :) -Baby can you dig your man-
Ikvar	Posted - 2005.10.14 12:15:00 - [30] MY GOD WHEN WILL YOU PEOPLE LEARN!?!?!? PVP arenas in EVE on TQ are a stupid, anti RP, WOW esque carebearish idea (and my definition of carebear is someone who hates/is a afraid of PVP). We have a PVP arena, it's the Free For All/Battlefields on the test server, Singularity. You get free ships and mods, you aren't allowed to be podkilled, it's consentual combat only (IE setting up a fight with someone or warping to FFA is consenting) and I'm banned from it so it'ts win, win, win, win! Originally by: Berneh You will never take me aliv coppers

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