Base hull of a titan is 65 billion. Man up.

Wait, Highsec griefing is considered PvP now? Did I miss that memo?

That is like saying Whores In Space are PvPers instead of Griefers out for easy no-effort kills.

What kind of tactical reasons? I really am curious, because it's entirely possible there's a strategic side of wardecs and wardec dodging that I'm missing.

Here's the thing, many hisec "carebears" have the big coslty ships. If we loose one we are out somtimes billions of isk. i.e. providence or cheron. along with all of what was on it. Not to mention if you get streight killed that you loose your implants, which can also be costly. So when low or null sec says "oh it is just a ship" yes it is a very exspensive ship. Especially when you are talking to folks who run in frigates and such.

Some of us dont have large corps that give ships back when lost. Some of us actually pay for our ships with hard earned isk. This may not be the case for you. I am sure you scrapped for it...

I wardec for two reasons..I'm bored and highsec shouldn't be safe, or tactical advantages.

I've been known to ship down when my target decides to undock and take the fight to me. I've even gone so far as to give my WTs some extra ISK if they start running low. These of course, are the duders who realize that yes, they are playing a multiplayer game, and yes, other people can invade they bubble.


Hells, I remember a case awhile back, where a CEO of a mining/trading group flat asked me "Hey, can you teach us how to PVP when we get done with this war?" I was tickled pink, taught em everything I know, and last I heard they were off doing FW and shootin guys in low.


Sure, you can 100% deny me kills, but conversely, I can 100% deny you mission/ratting/mining/whatevs PVE you were indulging in. Undock and fight, and you might learn something new. I've yet to find a devoted PVPer who won't talk your ear off on ships, fittings, and tactics, WT or no. Stop taking shiplosses personally, and L2P.

Here's the thing, many hisec "carebears" have the big coslty ships. If we loose one we are out somtimes billions of isk. i.e. providence or cheron. along with all of what was on it. Not to mention if you get streight killed that you loose your implants, which can also be costly. So when low or null sec says "oh it is just a ship" yes it is a very exspensive ship. Especially when you are talking to folks who run in frigates and such.

Another perfect example of "that's your problem, not the game's".

No matter where it is, it';s just a ship. If it's going to just KILL you to lose it, don't fly it in the 1st place. Poor game play is the game players fault.

What would I have happen? I would like it if PvPers understood why the industrialists play the way they do, and to understand that they can't change the way we play.

When we say stuff like "The war dec mechanics are stupid, because we either stay dociked up or just switch corps." the response from the PvPer crowd is always the same... "Then undock and fight." I wish the PvPers would understand why that is NEVER going to happen.

I get it... They want easy target to lol at ruining our day. What they need to understand is that no one is going to play a game where they exist just to be someone else's easy target.

It is our fault that we're not willing to be easy targets and get our butts kicked by the griefers.... but there is nothing the PvPers can do that will make us play a game where we exist to be their easy targets.

I take back any negitive anything i have said about PvPers. The only time I have dealt with them is D-Bags who mess with small startup corps being a bully. You are one of the first to actually want to help people (even opponents) to get better.

I will do that, the last 2 times I have done this... i got responses of go f*** myself and i believe it was suck my a**. So once again, i have had some diffrent takes on the whole PvP. I am more willing to attempt to go at it and see what i am made of as far as ship building.. as long as it is not a cruiser vs a dreadnaught

Not everyone plays this game the same way or with the same mind set as others. Yes i should have the isk to back up what i am flying, yes i should not really care about the ships as it is a ship. These are all true things. but just bacause you love blow up other ships to prove your worth, I like to mine and grind and build and earn. Their is nothing wrong with either approach. You play your style i play mine. Nothing is to say one way is the way it should be vs the other.

I only ever hear the hardcore PVPers complain about someone else not playing the game the way they think it should be played. So... the problem really lies with the PVPers.

Also have fun PVPing when there are no carebears anymore.

Griefing is someone that plays in a style where their enjoyment comes from causing pain to others. They are not fighting to gain something of value or to protect some resource or control a system. They are not fighting with people, becuase those people enjoy fighting back, as in faction warfare or RvB where both sides are enjoying themselves.

A griefer is someone playing in a way that gets then nothing of value beyond the jollies from hurting others.

So, killing a freighter loaded with valuable cargo, is not griefing.

Throwing away 100 million ISK worth of ships, to suicide gank an exhumer, in hopes of getting 10 million ISK in loot salvage, just because you enjoy the tears of the miners, is griefing.

Same 100 million ISK ships suicided to kill an exhumer that is mining ore in a system that you mine in, to get them to stop mining that ore that you will mine, not griefing.


Victim is pretty straight up. The loser in a fight. If I short cycle my lasers on a rock you were shooting, so I get ore and you do not, you are my victim. I run a market manipulation and scam you out of ISK, you are my victim. We both want to fight, and I win the fight, you are my victim.

FAIL!!!!

EVE is NOT all about exploding space ships!

Yet another scrub who thinks we pvp just to get green killboards.

What kind of tactical reasons? I really am curious, because it's entirely possible there's a strategic side of wardecs and wardec dodging that I'm missing.

What broken mechanics? Also there is a difference between ganking an untanked ship not flown by a terrible pilot and being 100% untouchable to the wardec system simply by pushing a button.

You are confused about what EVE is.


EVE is not just spaceships shooting spaceships.

EVE is harvesting resources. EVE is a player driven market. EVE is exploration and discovery. EVE is about building sandcastles, and knocking down other peoples' sand castles.

Sure, spaceships shooting spaceships is an aspect to EVE, and if you do not desire to play the other portions of EVE, then more power to you. Enjoy playing however you want to play.


But, if you say that EVE is nothing more than spaceships shooting spaceships in space, then you do not understand EVE.


I am not a tank racer. I am a resource harvester. I am a sandcastle builder. I am a market participant.


AND, I've never screamed on the forums when my ship has blown up, not have I been a strong advocate for change to high sec game mechanics. I've mostly been an advocate arguing AGAINST changes to high sec that seem to want to change the very complex sandbox game that is EVE, into the much more simplistic Word of Spaceships.

Alternately, if the E part of a game is all/mostly players, PvE and PvP are synonymous?

Nothing is broken. The ability to leave a corp. and not be wardec is working as intended..nothing to fix, sandbox,HTFU. Wow works both ways.

You act like killing mining/Indy in hi-sec is a challenge? Where is the challenge? Where is the risk? The only risk would be a mission runner but his ship is fit for pve not pvp so no real risk there either. There is no risk even if you gank, you know concord is going to kill you and if wardec the miner can only provide minimal resistance no real threat. All I see is little effort to make sure the gank yields a profit. Once you work out the formula just plug in a few numbers and its either go or no go.

I understand the whole school yard bully mentality. I blow up your miner/Indy ships because I can and this is EVE. You have to prey on the weak because your alliance lives in null in the sea of blue peace and tranquility (as does my null toon). You canGÇÖt go roam or look for real pvp in null because your going to get hot dropped and out blobbed. The reasons are endless but the bottom line is the same.

You do it because itGÇÖs easy and has almost no risk. You can call it whatever you like but you should not refer to it as something of meaning or effort or challenge.

Yup, lets kill half of the player base, that will benefit everyone!

What kind of tactical reasons? I really am curious, because it's entirely possible there's a strategic side of wardecs and wardec dodging that I'm missing.

When 30 bats took on everyone in high sec in our caldari ice interdiction we gambled tens of billions that we could shut down ice production enough to cripple the market. We won and made billions in profit.

Also the war dec system is badly broken, so says CCP. You are not ment to avoid this system so easily.

Maybe if High sec wasn't so safe, Low sec might actually be a viable place to travel instead of the instant death near empire camps.