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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Initiative
3552
   |
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:17:00 -
[121] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:quit whining then.
Here's an amusing thing, just for you:
- You agree that not being able to attack the supply chain of null sec alliances is a problem and believe this to be a problem with alts
- It is impossible for CCP to "fix" the alt problem.
- Therefore we must fix the problem of attacking null sec supply chains by allowing NPC corps to be war deced or making them perma war deced by moving them into the faction war.
I personally prefer the faction war approach because it removes the illusion people can get that Eve is not a PVP game.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
666
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:20:00 -
[122] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
The real problem is that certain segments of the community view PVP as only being their particular brand of it. Theres's industrial PVP, market PVP, ship PVP, personal PVP (dust), etc. If someone doesn't have an interest in PVP, they wouldn't be playing Eve. And frankly, the game will be better off without the relatively minor amount of people who are 100% opposed to all PVP. The game cannot cater to that crowd without attempting to delve into the thing that's killed so many modern MMOs.
There's a reason Eve is still alive... and that reason is PVP.
-Liang
Context!
Since this thread is about war dec, which only effects the hostile exchange of ammo in space, variety of PvP, it would be reasonable to assume from context, that a person talking about PvP is talking about the hostile exchange of ammo in space variety of PvP.
It just becomes tedious to have to type out "hostile exchange of ammo in space", when 99.9% of people see PvP in the context of a thread about war dec, and know what we mean. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Initiative
3552
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:23:00 -
[123] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:
The real problem is that certain segments of the community view PVP as only being their particular brand of it. Theres's industrial PVP, market PVP, ship PVP, personal PVP (dust), etc. If someone doesn't have an interest in PVP, they wouldn't be playing Eve. And frankly, the game will be better off without the relatively minor amount of people who are 100% opposed to all PVP. The game cannot cater to that crowd without attempting to delve into the thing that's killed so many modern MMOs.
There's a reason Eve is still alive... and that reason is PVP.
-Liang
Context! Since this thread is about war dec, which only effects the hostile exchange of ammo in space, variety of PvP, it would be reasonable to assume from context, that a person talking about PvP is talking about the hostile exchange of ammo in space variety of PvP. It just becomes tedious to have to type out "hostile exchange of ammo in space", when 99.9% of people see PvP in the context of a thread about war dec, and know what we mean.
Why do you feel that people should be free to industrially PVP everyone without the potential of natural consequence?
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Skeln Thargensen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
161
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:29:00 -
[124] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:quit whining then. Here's an amusing thing, just for you: - You agree that not being able to attack the supply chain of null sec alliances is a problem and believe this to be a problem with alts - It is impossible for CCP to "fix" the alt problem. - Therefore we must fix the problem of attacking null sec supply chains by allowing NPC corps to be war deced or making them perma war deced by moving them into the faction war. I personally prefer the faction war approach because it removes the illusion people can get that Eve is not a PVP game. -Liang
it's much easier to just accept that this is in fact not a problem and just a consequence of early game development decisions that also make things like bounties a nonsense. If you want to attack these players in high sec you are quite free to suicide them.
freelance space bum |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Initiative
3553
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:34:00 -
[125] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
it's much easier to just accept that this is in fact not a problem and just a consequence of early game development decisions that also make things like bounties a nonsense. If you want to attack these players in high sec you are quite free to suicide them.
Which I do, because I and all of my alts are -10 sec. How about this instead: we need to be able to attack industrial and supply backbones in high sec. I'm going to contend that suicide ganking freighters and jump freighters is currently working pretty well on this front, but we can't attack the industrial backbone at all.
For this reason, we should remove all mission agents, production slots, and research slots from high sec stations and add new high sec only POS modules to replicate these features.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.05.16 19:03:00 -
[126] - Quote
Amazing how from the looks of things, one would imagine pvp didn't exist outside of hisec, with just how desperate pvp'ers are to target hisec bears, industrial corps, and other soft targets.
Bare with me guys, cause this may just blow your mind, with all of low, null, and WHs, there is what, 90%+ of area that isn't hisec where aggression and combat are free, unpunished, and even sought after. But no, they still want to pvp only in the tiny percentage of region that is hisec.
Boggles my mind. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
395
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:12:00 -
[127] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:quit whining then. Here's an amusing thing, just for you: - You agree that not being able to attack the supply chain of null sec alliances is a problem and believe this to be a problem with alts - It is impossible for CCP to "fix" the alt problem. - Therefore we must fix the problem of attacking null sec supply chains by allowing NPC corps to be war deced or making them perma war deced by moving them into the faction war. I personally prefer the faction war approach because it removes the illusion people can get that Eve is not a PVP game. -Liang
You could also just remove the ability to use a jump drive if you are in a NPC corp. Flying freighter all the way to null station would make them viable target without changing NPC corps.
If you penalize NPC corp membership enough, any serious player will find a real corp to do his thing. You can even use that to create ISK sinks in the game or make existing ones bigger. Then you just make player "flagged" for war declaration so they are stuck with a war target status for 7 days after dropping from the decced corp.
I really don't think putting the poor 3 week old chap in a faction warfare corp because unlike many players, he went to try a player run corp really young and didn't like it or changed his mind for his profession and is not interested in what they do anymore. You would also most likely see people recruiting in newbie system just to kick 24 hours later. As much as I can't say you would do it, it's pretty obvious someone in the playerbase would jump on this kind of scheme... |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Initiative
3554
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:15:00 -
[128] - Quote
Like I said, I'm more than willing to have NPC corps remain as they are and not be war dec'ed. However, I think there should be stronger carrots to encourage people to leave NPC corps and join PC corps. And once they make that move, I'd like to make it a bit more explicit that Eve is a PVP game, and that you should be ready to PVP when in it.
I'm not saying that every player should undock and blow things up with their guns (though I do think that would be ideal). I'm saying that industrial corps should actually have meaningful military wings. I'm saying that I'd like to see players own the industrial infrastructure in high sec - and that infrastructure be attackable and defendable.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
1078
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:16:00 -
[129] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:Bare with me guys
No, you go and sit naked in the corner all by yourself, I'll be elsewhere, thanks.
Iudicium Vastus wrote:there is what, 90%+ of area that isn't hisec
Incorrect, high-sec is about 13% of systems total, including WH space. It also has (probably) the highest concentration of wealth and idiots who can be parted from said wealth.
CCP has no sense of humour. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT
Joint Venture Conglomerate
610
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:17:00 -
[130] - Quote
Thought I'd jump in late since it's almost the holiday weekend and nobody gets past the 2nd page anyway...
Bloody Wench wrote:250m a week?
A Billion?....Two? TEN?
I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.
tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.
Wow... I'm sure glad nobody belongs to an alliance that is so big that nobody can afford to wardec it... I mean, gollygeewhizzers, that would totally ruin your whole point...whatever that was. 
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
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Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:26:00 -
[131] - Quote
It's my impression that the corps you want to wardec are actually part of the faction alliance so if you want to wardec a NPC corp you will be at war with the entire faction including their navy patrolling gates, customs, gate guns, etc, etc. I would let you wardec the entire faction for free, then all you need to worry about is how much it will cost you in ships. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
486
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:27:00 -
[132] - Quote
5 or 10% the cost of whatever gank ship I would need to do the same thing. Wardecs are a pain in the ass, they are limited in time and you only get the one corp and they get a 24 hour heads up. And the other guys can run off to any of 1000 systems so you'll never find them.
The only good thing about them is that you can go after structure in highsec. Can NPC corps even put up POS's?
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:30:00 -
[133] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:5 or 10% the cost of whatever gank ship I would need to do the same thing. Wardecs are a pain in the ass, they are limited in time and you only get the one corp and they get a 24 hour heads up.
The only good thing about them is that you can go after structure in highsec. Can NPC corps even put up POS's?
LoL, the npc corps POS are actually the stations you park you ship in, fire at a station and see what happens. I dare ya! |
Six Six Six
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 20:23:00 -
[134] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:5 or 10% the cost of whatever gank ship I would need to do the same thing. Wardecs are a pain in the ass, they are limited in time and you only get the one corp and they get a 24 hour heads up. And the other guys can run off to any of 1000 systems so you'll never find them.
The only good thing about them is that you can go after structure in highsec. Can NPC corps even put up POS's?
As far as I remember there are no NPC corp POS's you can't have one if you're in an NPC corp.
|
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
395
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 20:27:00 -
[135] - Quote
Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:5 or 10% the cost of whatever gank ship I would need to do the same thing. Wardecs are a pain in the ass, they are limited in time and you only get the one corp and they get a 24 hour heads up.
The only good thing about them is that you can go after structure in highsec. Can NPC corps even put up POS's? LoL, the npc corps POS are actually the stations you park you ship in, fire at a station and see what happens. I dare ya!
Jita undock, energy pulse weapon.
FI-RE AGAIN! FI-RE A-GAIN! I dare ya, I double dare ya mofo. FI-RE one more god damn time!
|
Skeln Thargensen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
162
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 20:33:00 -
[136] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:5 or 10% the cost of whatever gank ship I would need to do the same thing. Wardecs are a pain in the ass, they are limited in time and you only get the one corp and they get a 24 hour heads up. And the other guys can run off to any of 1000 systems so you'll never find them.
The only good thing about them is that you can go after structure in highsec. Can NPC corps even put up POS's?
no, nor do they get aggressed in fleet or can wardec others. they simply aren't a problem.
freelance space bum |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Initiative
3554
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:12:00 -
[137] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:5 or 10% the cost of whatever gank ship I would need to do the same thing. Wardecs are a pain in the ass, they are limited in time and you only get the one corp and they get a 24 hour heads up.
The only good thing about them is that you can go after structure in highsec. Can NPC corps even put up POS's? LoL, the npc corps POS are actually the stations you park you ship in, fire at a station and see what happens. I dare ya! Jita undock, energy pulse weapon. FI-RE AGAIN! FI-RE A-GAIN! I dare ya, I double dare ya mofo. FI-RE one more god damn time!
Shooting stations isn't that big of a deal...
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Darak Pappation
Redurn Industrial Facilities
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:14:00 -
[138] - Quote
Just put the NPC factions into faction warfare for their respective race. I think that would actually be an interesting thing. |
Six Six Six
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:25:00 -
[139] - Quote
Darak Pappation wrote:Just put the NPC factions into faction warfare for their respective race. I think that would actually be an interesting thing.
Interesting for who?
Just wouldn't work. |
Malak Dawnfire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
124
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:47:00 -
[140] - Quote
DEATH TO NPC CORPS! |
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Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:50:00 -
[141] - Quote
Bloody Wench wrote:Might get them out into some real Corps.
Which corps are those?
I have no interest at all in filling out a bloody 30 page application and wasting my time trying to impress someone whose opinion means nothing to me, just to get into another "basic, boring, run of the mill corporation." This is a game For fart sakes not the CIA...
Tell me how I'll never get in a "Good" Corp. We all know everyone wants to get into a Good Corp. Um, No... I fly Solo, I have for years, it's how I will play until joining a corp isn't an exercise in stupidity. Am I missing out on things? Sure but I can live with it just fine. I'm getting value for my 15 bucks a month and that all that matters to me... |
Arielle Lima
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:08:00 -
[142] - Quote
It's not just a matter of getting us to join corps.
Corps simply don't want us.
The supposed "Good" corps have such tough entrance rules that many people just can't meet them. And people like me also don't want to be providing our API's all the time. It's the principal of the thing. Way to many hoops to jump through. So you might say "Well then you can forget about getting in a good corp". Fine...we don't want to join a corp anyway thats why I sit for 4 years in an NPC Corp...And then there is all the stories I have heard about new players joining a corp only to have theri paltry items stolen and them kicked out the same day.
Oh and then we join a corp and are required to sit on comms every time we log in, are ordered to CTA's when sometimes we just want to log in for 1/2 an hour, and then sitting for 2 hours prepping for a roam that fails 15 minutes after starting because 1/2 the people had to leave to burp the baby or respond to a nagging wife... I'm amazed that anything ever actually gets off the ground... |
To Be Me
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:09:00 -
[143] - Quote
zero. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
721
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:10:00 -
[144] - Quote
Bloody Wench wrote:250m a week?
A Billion?....Two? TEN?
I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.
tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.
2008 wants it's thread back...
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
487
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:22:00 -
[145] - Quote
Arielle Lima wrote:It's not just a matter of getting us to join corps.
Corps simply don't want us.
The supposed "Good" corps have such tough entrance rules that many people just can't meet them. And people like me also don't want to be providing our API's all the time. It's the principal of the thing. Way to many hoops to jump through. So you might say "Well then you can forget about getting in a good corp". Fine...we don't want to join a corp anyway thats why I sit for 4 years in an NPC Corp...And then there is all the stories I have heard about new players joining a corp only to have theri paltry items stolen and them kicked out the same day.
Oh and then we join a corp and are required to sit on comms every time we log in, are ordered to CTA's when sometimes we just want to log in for 1/2 an hour, and then sitting for 2 hours prepping for a roam that fails 15 minutes after starting because 1/2 the people had to leave to burp the baby or respond to a nagging wife... I'm amazed that anything ever actually gets off the ground...
Corps don't want you! I'm shocked! Simply stunned. I don't know what to say...
FW is always looking for people, same RvB but you need an alt income for that. Once you have a beginner pvp corp in your folder for 2 or 3 months, and you can fly in lowsec then corps will be more interested.
There's plenty of come as you are casual alliances out there that can put together great fleets and group ops.
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1212
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:23:00 -
[146] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Gealbhan wrote:Where's the Honor, Glory and Bragging Rights in killing a bunch of one day old newbs. Oh, that's right there is none.  How about the 5 year old vet who's staying in the NPC corp?
They pays their money, they plays their game.
Oh, that's right, Eve is only a sand-box if folk play the way you want them to.
This is not a signature. |
Arielle Lima
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 23:00:00 -
[147] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Arielle Lima wrote:It's not just a matter of getting us to join corps.
Corps simply don't want us.
The supposed "Good" corps have such tough entrance rules that many people just can't meet them. And people like me also don't want to be providing our API's all the time. It's the principal of the thing. Way to many hoops to jump through. So you might say "Well then you can forget about getting in a good corp". Fine...we don't want to join a corp anyway thats why I sit for 4 years in an NPC Corp...And then there is all the stories I have heard about new players joining a corp only to have theri paltry items stolen and them kicked out the same day.
Oh and then we join a corp and are required to sit on comms every time we log in, are ordered to CTA's when sometimes we just want to log in for 1/2 an hour, and then sitting for 2 hours prepping for a roam that fails 15 minutes after starting because 1/2 the people had to leave to burp the baby or respond to a nagging wife... I'm amazed that anything ever actually gets off the ground... Corps don't want you! I'm shocked! Simply stunned. I don't know what to say... FW is always looking for people, same RvB but you need an alt income for that. Once you have a beginner pvp corp in your folder for 2 or 3 months, and you can fly in lowsec then corps will be more interested. There's plenty of come as you are casual alliances out there that can put together great fleets and group ops.
I'm speaking figuratively.
I've done FW. unless you are in an FW corp people don't want you in their fleets because "You are way to new. You must be a spy"...
RvB... um no, it's way too limited...
NPC Corp FTW... |
Bloody Wench
350
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 23:12:00 -
[148] - Quote
Arielle Lima wrote:It's not just a matter of getting us to join corps.
Corps simply don't want us.
The supposed "Good" corps have such tough entrance rules that many people just can't meet them. And people like me also don't want to be providing our API's all the time. It's the principal of the thing. Way to many hoops to jump through. So you might say "Well then you can forget about getting in a good corp". Fine...we don't want to join a corp anyway thats why I sit for 4 years in an NPC Corp...And then there is all the stories I have heard about new players joining a corp only to have theri paltry items stolen and them kicked out the same day.
Oh and then we join a corp and are required to sit on comms every time we log in, are ordered to CTA's when sometimes we just want to log in for 1/2 an hour, and then sitting for 2 hours prepping for a roam that fails 15 minutes after starting because 1/2 the people had to leave to burp the baby or respond to a nagging wife... I'm amazed that anything ever actually gets off the ground...
Why not just be in your own corp then? It costs bugger all.
Support a Hi Resolution Texture Pack |
Six Six Six
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 23:26:00 -
[149] - Quote
Bloody Wench wrote:Arielle Lima wrote:It's not just a matter of getting us to join corps.
Corps simply don't want us.
The supposed "Good" corps have such tough entrance rules that many people just can't meet them. And people like me also don't want to be providing our API's all the time. It's the principal of the thing. Way to many hoops to jump through. So you might say "Well then you can forget about getting in a good corp". Fine...we don't want to join a corp anyway thats why I sit for 4 years in an NPC Corp...And then there is all the stories I have heard about new players joining a corp only to have theri paltry items stolen and them kicked out the same day.
Oh and then we join a corp and are required to sit on comms every time we log in, are ordered to CTA's when sometimes we just want to log in for 1/2 an hour, and then sitting for 2 hours prepping for a roam that fails 15 minutes after starting because 1/2 the people had to leave to burp the baby or respond to a nagging wife... I'm amazed that anything ever actually gets off the ground... Why not just be in your own corp then? It costs bugger all.
Actually I wouldn't advise a solo corp unless you're an alt or trader. The conversation is dire. |
Arielle Lima
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 23:44:00 -
[150] - Quote
Bloody Wench wrote:Arielle Lima wrote:It's not just a matter of getting us to join corps.
Corps simply don't want us.
The supposed "Good" corps have such tough entrance rules that many people just can't meet them. And people like me also don't want to be providing our API's all the time. It's the principal of the thing. Way to many hoops to jump through. So you might say "Well then you can forget about getting in a good corp". Fine...we don't want to join a corp anyway thats why I sit for 4 years in an NPC Corp...And then there is all the stories I have heard about new players joining a corp only to have theri paltry items stolen and them kicked out the same day.
Oh and then we join a corp and are required to sit on comms every time we log in, are ordered to CTA's when sometimes we just want to log in for 1/2 an hour, and then sitting for 2 hours prepping for a roam that fails 15 minutes after starting because 1/2 the people had to leave to burp the baby or respond to a nagging wife... I'm amazed that anything ever actually gets off the ground... Why not just be in your own corp then? It costs bugger all.
I have my own corp. I also have a few non training alts that live in an NPC corp just so I have someone to chat with...This is one of the training characters I have to resell... |
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