250m a week?

A Billion?....Two? TEN?

I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.

tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.

As far as killing newbies goes, although we'd probably agree on some kind of "don't kill if under x days old" rule, the onus would still be on them to join player corporations instead.

CCP could easily handle that in code if they were willing to define what a "rookie" actually was.

They wouldn't, because keep in mind the starter NPC corps would still probably be off-limits. The normal NPC corps mean that the player is old/experienced enough to have been in a player-run corporation at least once, for however long.

In my opinion, players should be dumped into FW NPC corporations after a grace period anyway. FW mechanics might have to be changed so that it's slightly safer in some high-security areas, but otherwise it would be fine.

If people were exposed to this from the start and didn't have a chance to learn ultra carebearism from the get-go, everyone's perception of the game would be different anyway. We wouldn't have these "I just want to mine alone in safety forever" people to begin with. But people would still subscribe in the same numbers. I guarantee it.

The cost would be irrelevant. We'd just form a coalition/alliance in order to pool enough money, even if it's tens of billions per week.

As far as killing newbies goes, although we'd probably agree on some kind of "don't kill if under x days old" rule, the onus would still be on them to join player corporations instead.

250m a week?

A Billion?....Two? TEN?

I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.

tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.

tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.

Im more in favor of there being limitations and drawbacks for being in an NPC corp.

Im more in favor of there being limitations and drawbacks for being in an NPC corp.

Having to pay 11% tax on all income

when did they learn to tax mining?

Like not being able to set up a POS? not having access to corporate hangars and programs? No ability to claim systems or participate in FW? Having to pay 11% tax on all income without getting anything back for it?

Oh right, good point...

Maybe the NPC corps should also put a tax over sale profits of ore, materials and finished goods.

I'm certain that will get a lot of people out of NPC corps.

250m a week?

A Billion?....Two? TEN?

I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.

tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.

Im more in favor of there being limitations and drawbacks for being in an NPC corp.

What would also be cool if there were certain NPC corps that are automatically involved in faction warfare or (non wardecable) newb NPC corps that only allow avatars below a certain SP limit and higher level NPC corps that actually CAN be wardecced etc. Dunno if that would be even feasible.

That said, no I wouldn't even pay 100m a week because I simply do not have that much raw ISK.

Oh, and make the NPC taxes apply to new members of player corporations for at least two days. That way corp-hopping to avoid wars will punish them beyond adding entries to their employment histories.

Obviously the correct answer is to move all NPC corps into the faction war. :)

-Liang

Then it would only be fair for the NP-Corps to be able to wardec Player Corps in return. But who is to decide that?

its stupid how many people make threads on game mechanics that were removed for obvious reasons...

war dec a noob corp... sit outside the undock in a system youknow noob chars are "made" and kill.

main reason it was removed so long ago.

250m a week?

A Billion?....Two? TEN?

I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.

tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.

I would say a week as that is how long the war dec lasts.

if you would pay :
"The cost would be irrelevant. We'd just form a coalition/alliance in order to pool enough money, even if it's tens of billions per week."

why you need a war ? just go kill anyone or anything anywhere and use the "ten's of billions" to buy youre stuff again ships/weapons

Well, I wouldn't want the system to be punishing to players with integrity. Two days would mean that there's at least one day of shooting, due to the 24 hour cool-down period for wars. Even one day would at least justify the war cost. Also, players should be allowed to legitimately leave bad corporations, even during wars. As long as they can't hops, I'd be happy.

This again.

Still remains one of the worst ideas out there for so many different reasons.
Not worth rehashing or wasting time on this again.

add an extra column to the refining window saying "corp tax" et voila! although that would mean two lots of tax on mining.

Where's the Honor, Glory and Bragging Rights in killing a bunch of one day old newbs. Oh, that's right there is none.

How about the 5 year old vet who's staying in the NPC corp?

You're right. We should boost incursion and level 4 income instead.

Where's the Honor, Glory and Bragging Rights in killing a bunch of one day old newbs. Oh, that's right there is none.

Have you lost your mind ?
I'll accept that as a troll otherwise.

Don't give CCP such ideas please.

If you want to kill someone in an NPC corp, go kill them.

The cost isn't in the wardec, your cost is (soon to be the tags) to repair your sec status and replace the ship you lost to Concord.

Have you lost your mind ?
I'll accept that as a troll otherwise.

Don't give CCP such ideas please.

This goes to the OP , obviously you are a try hard fail pvp loser. And want to try to get kill by killing new players. I assume you probably like trying to kill miners as well. Yes there are players other then newbs in these corps, but the point is you want easy kills. You are a scumbag, you are bad and should feel bad. I'm sure you get dunked every time you try to pvp and are mad. PLSNOMAD kkthnksbb

How about if NPC corps are only available to players under 30 days old. After that, players are forced into a generic corp which can be war-decced.

I'm a PVEr mate, I live in a WH but it's just high end PVE really. (Most of the time)
I've killed miners in my own and other WHs, yes.
I've never suicide ganked in hisec, but I'm warming up to that idea.

Im more in favor of there being limitations and drawbacks for being in an NPC corp.

250m a week?

A Billion?....Two? TEN?

I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.

tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.

This is most likely the best way to do anything about the dec dodging situation.

Higher bounty tax (fight NPC vet mission runner)
Higher mission payout tax (Fight NPC vet mission runner)
Refining tax (Fight NPC vet miners)
Higher sales tax (Fight NPC vet trader)
Higher cost to use factory/research slots (Fight NPC vet industrialist)

You can also have these tax go up the depending on the volume passing through the system to protect newbies since they would not generate as much or as big transaction as a veteran. The newbie mission runner does not really need to pay the same tax rate as teh veteran mission runner pulling the big ISK numbers. Same for all professions.

If you want to kill someone in an NPC corp, go kill them....

Skilled pirates are doing that already: killing mission runners without loss of ship or security standing. That is too hard for others, they need easy mode.

Skilled pirates are doing that already: killing mission runners without loss of ship or security standing. That is too hard for others, they need easy mode.

With the recently announced corp drop timer changes, there's just no reason not to have all those players in some form of Player run Corp, be it their own or otherwise.

Soooo much this. NPC corps need some serious reforming. The current situation is great for new and low SP characters, but is nothing more than an imbalanced hiding spot for higher sp/veterans. The Vets should have to pay more for that kind of protection.

Instead of typing up a decent explanation of why you're wrong, how about I ask you this instead:

Why should only one subset of players be entitled to an easy mode?

An easy explanation of why pirates are not killing highsec mission runners? That would be interesting.... so please do. Then I will give you a link to a Pirate group kill board that does just that.

New players should be on easy mode. If you disagree with that, what can I say.

If people are killing blues in hisec without loss of ship or security status, then it's clearly an exploit, which you should report to CCP.

So you're saying all players in NPC corporations are new players?

That's where you are wrong. There's a lot of bad player corps out there for various reasons and when a lot of people make a decision to join a player corp they don't want to have to start corp hopping to try and find a good one as it tends to mess up your employment record.

My think initially when it happened also. Yet when I followed these pirate by their kill board it was happening over and over again. One pirate in particular is killing maybe on average six ships a day... security status almost 2.0.

I now suspect it is not an exploit.

Your employment record?
This is your best argument?

NPC corp for over a year is not a glowing endorsement either.

This has never been possible.

Zero. NPC corps should never be able to be wardeced, they should be a place for beginners to get accustomed to the game. However, there should be a character age limit in all NPC corps.

Just because something goes on for ages doesn't make it not an exploit.
boomeranging, orca re-shipping, cynoing to avoid concord etc etc the list goes on and on.
Magnetar Effects...lawl

You should definitely have CCP look into it.

just like concord has ALWAYS been around, right?

Rather than being able to wardec NPC corps we should be advocating something a little different.

Anytime someone starts a mission, a random NPC corp member is teleported to the mission area with their current ship and becomes the "rat" for the mission (you could even have several of them being "waves", just hold the next guys in a limbo state). They can't leave the mission area until they or the mission runner is dead. The system could choose players for missions based on what class of ship they are flying at the time: L1 = pods/shuttles, L2 = frigates/industrials, L3 = destroyers/cruisers, L4 = battlecruisers, L5 = battleships.

In this way we accomplish several goals:
1. PvP is added to missions.
2. Missions become less of a grind.
3. NPC corp members are properly punished for avoiding wardecs.
4. NPC corp members are forced to PvP.

How bad do you have to be, that you require wardeccing noobs to get a kill?

Oh, and don't forget to scan their fits. I think the most expensive one I ever saw was around 40-50 billion. Though that's kind of rare, you'll see 5-10 billion setups all the time, and the grand majority at least having some decent faction modules fitted.

Rather than being able to wardec NPC corps we should be advocating something a little different.

Anytime someone starts a mission, a random NPC corp member is teleported to the mission area with their current ship and becomes the "rat" for the mission (you could even have several of them being "waves", just hold the next guys in a limbo state). They can't leave the mission area until they or the mission runner is dead. The system could choose players for missions based on what class of ship they are flying at the time: L1 = pods/shuttles, L2 = frigates/industrials, L3 = destroyers/cruisers, L4 = battlecruisers, L5 = battleships.

In this way we accomplish several goals:
1. PvP is added to missions.
2. Missions become less of a grind.
3. NPC corp members are properly punished for avoiding wardecs.
4. NPC corp members are forced to PvP.

I think a neat mechanic would be if you're able to pursue war targets into systems with security levels equal to or lesser than your corp's standings with the NPC corp. So if your standing with Brutor Tribe is above 7 then you can shoot with impunity in 0.7 or lower systems. So you'd have to grind standings with that corp to be able to continue the war and have access to higher security areas. 0.8 systems and above would most often still be safe havens.

All those people that want to gloriously dispatch hordes of non pvp focused players in empire space, why dont you seek glory fighting Goonswarm? They are the biggest corp and lots of nullbears there, many iskies.

I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.

Yeah, a corp they just created... And if you war dec that newly created corp, they'll just create another new corp.

And, if you prevent them from doing that, then they just won't log in. And if that persists, then they'll just drop subscription.


What you CAN NOT do is get players with no interest in PvP, to be your easy targets.

Rather than being able to wardec NPC corps we should be advocating something a little different.

Anytime someone starts a mission, a random NPC corp member is teleported to the mission area with their current ship and becomes the "rat" for the mission (you could even have several of them being "waves", just hold the next guys in a limbo state). They can't leave the mission area until they or the mission runner is dead. The system could choose players for missions based on what class of ship they are flying at the time: L1 = pods/shuttles, L2 = frigates/industrials, L3 = destroyers/cruisers, L4 = battlecruisers, L5 = battleships.

In this way we accomplish several goals:
1. PvP is added to missions.
2. Missions become less of a grind.
3. NPC corp members are properly punished for avoiding wardecs.
4. NPC corp members are forced to PvP.

Yeah, a corp they just created... And if you war dec that newly created corp, they'll just create another new corp.

And, if you prevent them from doing that, then they just won't log in. And if that persists, then they'll just drop subscription.


What you CAN NOT do is get players with no interest in PvP, to be your easy targets.

It has, people used to be able to tank it.

i allways thought that after 2 months in a noob corp you should be booted and be corpless or have the option to join fw...

and then add the ability to war dec an individual.

The real problem is that certain segments of the community view PVP as only being their particular brand of it. Theres's industrial PVP, market PVP, ship PVP, personal PVP (dust), etc. If someone doesn't have an interest in PVP, they wouldn't be playing Eve. And frankly, the game will be better off without the relatively minor amount of people who are 100% opposed to all PVP. The game cannot cater to that crowd without attempting to delve into the thing that's killed so many modern MMOs.

There's a reason Eve is still alive... and that reason is PVP.

-Liang

when do you declare wars on individuals?

I always felt that people who want to side with Sansha should get the opportunity to be the rats in the incursions or at least join up with them. From an RP approach this would fit and the incursions were a kind of letdown for Sansha sympathizers. I would even hope in such a case that the Sansha helpers could get LPs from the nation for incursions they manage to thwart.

Beyond that point, this entire thread should be consigned to the "bored gankers asking for easy kills" file.

you cant hence you should if they are corpless and you should be coprless if you are in a noob corp for more then 2 months...

Obviously the correct answer is to move all NPC corps into the faction war. :)

-Liang

Except when we talk about PvE in this game we're really comparing it with combat PvP. So your industrial PvP, market PvP etc is being refered to as PvE.

I proposed this like 9+ months ago and got so much rage it was unbelievable.

You would be surprised at how many NULL alts for industry and transport there are in NPC corps keeping there supply lines safe.
That's the main reason i wanted the change the first time.

I also see jump-freighters as one of CCPs biggest errors in judgment, right along side titans, and AOE doomdays.

that's a problem with alts not NPC corps. we already have enough tryhards camping our high sec stations without giving them hundreds of extra noob targets to encourage them thanks.

So your solution is getting rid of alts? Yeah, that's a ******* good idea bro. :hi5:

-Liang

quit whining then.

The real problem is that certain segments of the community view PVP as only being their particular brand of it. Theres's industrial PVP, market PVP, ship PVP, personal PVP (dust), etc. If someone doesn't have an interest in PVP, they wouldn't be playing Eve. And frankly, the game will be better off without the relatively minor amount of people who are 100% opposed to all PVP. The game cannot cater to that crowd without attempting to delve into the thing that's killed so many modern MMOs.

There's a reason Eve is still alive... and that reason is PVP.

-Liang

Context!

Since this thread is about war dec, which only effects the hostile exchange of ammo in space, variety of PvP, it would be reasonable to assume from context, that a person talking about PvP is talking about the hostile exchange of ammo in space variety of PvP.

It just becomes tedious to have to type out "hostile exchange of ammo in space", when 99.9% of people see PvP in the context of a thread about war dec, and know what we mean.

Here's an amusing thing, just for you:
- You agree that not being able to attack the supply chain of null sec alliances is a problem and believe this to be a problem with alts
- It is impossible for CCP to "fix" the alt problem.
- Therefore we must fix the problem of attacking null sec supply chains by allowing NPC corps to be war deced or making them perma war deced by moving them into the faction war.

I personally prefer the faction war approach because it removes the illusion people can get that Eve is not a PVP game.

-Liang

it's much easier to just accept that this is in fact not a problem and just a consequence of early game development decisions that also make things like bounties a nonsense. If you want to attack these players in high sec you are quite free to suicide them.

Here's an amusing thing, just for you: - You agree that not being able to attack the supply chain of null sec alliances is a problem and believe this to be a problem with alts - It is impossible for CCP to "fix" the alt problem. - Therefore we must fix the problem of attacking null sec supply chains by allowing NPC corps to be war deced or making them perma war deced by moving them into the faction war. I personally prefer the faction war approach because it removes the illusion people can get that Eve is not a PVP game. -Liang

Bare with me guys

there is what, 90%+ of area that isn't hisec

250m a week?

A Billion?....Two? TEN?

I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.

tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.

5 or 10% the cost of whatever gank ship I would need to do the same thing. Wardecs are a pain in the ass, they are limited in time and you only get the one corp and they get a 24 hour heads up.

The only good thing about them is that you can go after structure in highsec. Can NPC corps even put up POS's?

5 or 10% the cost of whatever gank ship I would need to do the same thing. Wardecs are a pain in the ass, they are limited in time and you only get the one corp and they get a 24 hour heads up. And the other guys can run off to any of 1000 systems so you'll never find them.

The only good thing about them is that you can go after structure in highsec. Can NPC corps even put up POS's?

LoL, the npc corps POS are actually the stations you park you ship in, fire at a station and see what happens. I dare ya!

5 or 10% the cost of whatever gank ship I would need to do the same thing. Wardecs are a pain in the ass, they are limited in time and you only get the one corp and they get a 24 hour heads up. And the other guys can run off to any of 1000 systems so you'll never find them.

The only good thing about them is that you can go after structure in highsec. Can NPC corps even put up POS's?

Jita undock, energy pulse weapon.

FI-RE AGAIN! FI-RE A-GAIN! I dare ya, I double dare ya mofo. FI-RE one more god damn time!

Just put the NPC factions into faction warfare for their respective race. I think that would actually be an interesting thing.

Might get them out into some real Corps.

250m a week?

A Billion?....Two? TEN?

I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.

tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.

It's not just a matter of getting us to join corps.

Corps simply don't want us.

The supposed "Good" corps have such tough entrance rules that many people just can't meet them. And people like me also don't want to be providing our API's all the time. It's the principal of the thing. Way to many hoops to jump through. So you might say "Well then you can forget about getting in a good corp". Fine...we don't want to join a corp anyway thats why I sit for 4 years in an NPC Corp...And then there is all the stories I have heard about new players joining a corp only to have theri paltry items stolen and them kicked out the same day.

Oh and then we join a corp and are required to sit on comms every time we log in, are ordered to CTA's when sometimes we just want to log in for 1/2 an hour, and then sitting for 2 hours prepping for a roam that fails 15 minutes after starting because 1/2 the people had to leave to burp the baby or respond to a nagging wife... I'm amazed that anything ever actually gets off the ground...

How about the 5 year old vet who's staying in the NPC corp?

Corps don't want you! I'm shocked! Simply stunned. I don't know what to say...

FW is always looking for people, same RvB but you need an alt income for that. Once you have a beginner pvp corp in your folder for 2 or 3 months, and you can fly in lowsec then corps will be more interested.

There's plenty of come as you are casual alliances out there that can put together great fleets and group ops.

It's not just a matter of getting us to join corps.

Corps simply don't want us.

The supposed "Good" corps have such tough entrance rules that many people just can't meet them. And people like me also don't want to be providing our API's all the time. It's the principal of the thing. Way to many hoops to jump through. So you might say "Well then you can forget about getting in a good corp". Fine...we don't want to join a corp anyway thats why I sit for 4 years in an NPC Corp...And then there is all the stories I have heard about new players joining a corp only to have theri paltry items stolen and them kicked out the same day.

Oh and then we join a corp and are required to sit on comms every time we log in, are ordered to CTA's when sometimes we just want to log in for 1/2 an hour, and then sitting for 2 hours prepping for a roam that fails 15 minutes after starting because 1/2 the people had to leave to burp the baby or respond to a nagging wife... I'm amazed that anything ever actually gets off the ground...

Why not just be in your own corp then? It costs bugger all.

Why not just be in your own corp then? It costs bugger all.

They pays their money, they plays their game.

Oh, that's right, Eve is only a sand-box if folk play the way you want them to.

I have no interest at all in filling out a bloody 30 page application

If CCP decide to make NPC corps a war target so be it, either deal with it or unsubscribe, if CCP decide to make being in NPC corps even safer so be it, either deal with it or unsubscribe.

I understand and respect your sentiment, but the problem with NPC corporations and safety isn't some kind of matter of principle in the sense that we pvpers simply shun that kind of play style; it's that the safety shrouds these peoples' ability to make copious amounts of money with an impenetrable barrier of NPC protection. That's simply not good for a game like EVE online.

I understand, and there may not be an easy solution that everyone can agree on. Some people may have to make a choice, to continue playing, or to end their time in space. I will adapt to whatever comes at me, because I truly enjoy playing the game, floating among my rocky compatriots is a relaxing activity for me. If CCP decide to let people kill everyone in Hi-Sec, well then I guess I'll have to figure out how to mine and dodge at the same time.

For some reason its only okay to use this reasoning against pvpers but when pvpers use it, its not okay, unrealistic and will destroy CCP's financial integrity. The only thing your sub money gets you is the ability to log in, it does not guarantee you a single player online experience.

PvPers keep wanting to reduce possible income generated in high-sec as I understand it (or at least that's part of it).

Problem I see with that is if you lower the rewards too low then those rewards become meaningless and people won't bother with them.

There's also a lot of people in high-sec that don't make copious amounts of money, which would more than likely cause problems for them if rewards were cut.

The funny thing is the ones you set out to hurt will more than likely be the ones least effected (ok, maybe hurt is not the right word, but it's late here).

The only reward that you should aquire in this game is the one you make for yourself. I can't speculate on what changes to the game mechanics could bring about. If it is announced that NPC corps will be allowed to be war targets, then that's what's going to happen. All the incessant arguing and bickering back and forth about who is right and who is wrong it pointless.

No, you go and sit naked in the corner all by yourself, I'll be elsewhere, thanks.


Incorrect, high-sec is about 13% of systems total, including WH space. It also has (probably) the highest concentration of wealth and idiots who can be parted from said wealth.

You don't have much null experience do you?

Otherwise you'd know the biggest idiots usually come from there.Using mittani for 3rd party mom/titan anyone?Undocking massive amount of plex in kestrel anyone , o/ spacemonkeys ? Oops forgot to pay the rent , beybey space anyone?

And yes , i live in null and yes i also live in high-sec and yes i also live in low-sec.

Mom/titan scam victims and stuff the kestrel types just about all come from highsec. Highsec is by far the home to the stupid pilots.

It would have to be time based as SP based means that vets can abuse that system.

250m a week?

A Billion?....Two? TEN?

I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.

tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.

Then what?


Start your own corp, get bored and leave.

Or join a poorly run player corp, get bored and leave.

Or you might find a good corp and actually stay.



There is no reason to be forced into a player corp.

I've said this many times and I'll say it again, you can't force people to do what they don't want to do (especially in a game). Maybe one day that will sink in to those who try to do exactly that. At least then it would save me from having to say it anymore.

Show me a single corp that wants you to fill out a 30-page application. I'll wait.

Why does and MMO need that kind of players anyway? ... yeah, yeah i know: "because sandox!"

I think the pros outweigh the cons.

What is so exciting about NPC corps? The fact that you have no investment in the corporation and on real connection to the members?

Why does and MMO need that kind of players anyway? ... yeah, yeah i know: "because sandox!"

Tell me more about moms and titans in high-sec and how pure blind -the home of spacemonkey kessie at the time ' is part of high-sec .


Didn't know it was time for bedtime fairytail stories yet ....

Nothing is exciting about an NPC corp, but then I've not always been in NPC corps. Finding a good corp is not an easy process though, although it's easy to find a bad one.

Solo players will mainly stay in an NPC corp some will make their own corps, but that's their choice. Problem with some corps is you end up playing someone else's game and not the way you want to play. Which is another reason some people stay in NPC corps. Some stay there because they don't want to combat PvP others stay there because of RL time constraints and the feel because of that it's not worth getting involved with a player corps and some player corps can be demanding on your time. Of course others just park their alts there away from war-decs. There's various reasons why people stay in NPC corps, plus the chat can be better than a solo corp and even better than some player corps.



I've said this before, that I've never seen a game that mixes PvP and PvE players do it successfully.

The main reason for that is the PvE players try to stay out of the way of the PvP players and don't dictate how the PvP players should play the game. But PvP players will always try to dictate how PvE players should play (not all PvPers) because those PvEers make such easy targets.

2. Allow existing NPC corps to be wardeced.

CCP should add a lowsec and nullsec where people have wars.

250m a week?

A Billion?....Two? TEN?

I think it would be a good change to the game. Certainly for those hundreds of players in them. Might get them out into some real Corps.

tl:dr Immunity to wardecs is 'tehghey'.

Nothing is exciting about an NPC corp, but then I've not always been in NPC corps. Finding a good corp is not an easy process though, although it's easy to find a bad one.

Solo players will mainly stay in an NPC corp some will make their own corps, but that's their choice. Problem with some corps is you end up playing someone else's game and not the way you want to play. Which is another reason some people stay in NPC corps. Some stay there because they don't want to combat PvP others stay there because of RL time constraints and the feel because of that it's not worth getting involved with a player corps and some player corps can be demanding on your time. Of course others just park their alts there away from war-decs. There's various reasons why people stay in NPC corps, plus the chat can be better than a solo corp and even better than some player corps.



I've said this before, that I've never seen a game that mixes PvP and PvE players do it successfully.

The main reason for that is the PvE players try to stay out of the way of the PvP players and don't dictate how the PvP players should play the game. But PvP players will always try to dictate how PvE players should play (not all PvPers) because those PvEers make such easy targets.

I've said this before, that I've never seen a game that mixes PvP and PvE players do it successfully.

The main reason for that is the PvE players try to stay out of the way of the PvP players and don't dictate how the PvP players should play the game. But PvP players will always try to dictate how PvE players should play (not all PvPers) because those PvEers make such easy targets.

See, I am against this.

I would rather see restrictions on NPC corps, things like 15-20% tax on all bounties, mineral refining, sales, manufacturing jobs, research times/cost ect. Also higher charges for station services. That way players have a very good reason to go into a player corp.

No the players will have another reason to quit. You will never force players into a corp they don't want to be in. And what corp wants any players who are only applying because they are forced into it but have no real interest in the corp?

And why the hell does anyone care if people want to put it down in the noobcorps for years on end?
That's the way they choose to EVE. Deal with it. QQ somewhere else.

(not directing that at you, Doc)

I'm very impressed with the rational discussion in this thread. There's been one or two attempts to devolve it into yet another exercise in name calling and yet nobody has bitten.

So kudos to all of you.