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When is CCP going to deal with 100% invulnerable snipers?

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Hot Karl	Posted - 2005.10.24 13:55:00 - [1] you all know the situation theres a guy sitting 150km from the gate picking off small ships in one shot and as soon as you make a move for him he runs away no ship can cover that distance before your pre-aligned sniper can warp to his safe spot and you cant snipe them back because they can just warp to thier pre-aligned safe spot and if you use a cov ops to get in range with your tacklers he still gets away because he has 11 wcs the only way you can fight them is to not engage but then everyone thinks you are afraid but you arent afraid you just know you cant compete with his 100% safe carebear tactics
Jernau Gurgeh	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:04:00 - [2] 1) Sentences are good. 2) 11 WCS on a ship? Exaggeration is bad. 3) Snipers are not invulnerable. There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not.
DEVILSENIGMA	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:05:00 - [3] get more people to kill him then. He cant have too many wcs coz then he wont be able to kill effectively. My Blog
Hot Karl	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Jernau Gurgeh 3) Snipers are not invulnerable. enlighten us otherwise get out of my thread and my shift caps lock apostrophe question mark comma and period keys are all broken at the same time strange coincidence isnt it
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:09:00 - [5] Worst case scenario: covert + 5 warp scrambler/4 nanofibre scorp + damage. Its perfectly possible to do. And a lot of people surprisingly don't check their scanner for probes! Also, >150km - just warp to him! Or rather, to the covert 15km behind him. Also, don't all jump in at once. Hopefully thats enough to get you started...
KIATolon	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:09:00 - [6] You just need a ship with a jabillion guns on and you can one volley him. Seriously though, set up a trap, get him agro and probe him out, then warp your fleet on top of him and kill him.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:11:00 - [7] step 1: covert ops flies in though another gate. sits 15k away from the sniper. step 2: tempest jumps in from the same gate as the covert ops and warps to this covert ops. this should land him on top of the sniper. step 3: the tempest locks the sniper step 4: the tempest activates all 5 -2 scrams he had fitted in his mid slots step 6: the tempest activates 1 large nos, and 6 autocannons with EMP step 7: when the sniper's ship explodes, the tempest activates a large thermal smartbomb (named or faction), popping the sniper's pod in one go. step 8: the tempest and the covert ops pilot share the loot, and go find another sniper. Originally by: Chowdown We camp a lot
gfldex	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:18:00 - [8] When is CCP going to deal with 100% punctuation free posts? -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
Hoshi	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:27:00 - [9] Originally by: Sarmaul step 1: covert ops flies in though another gate. sits 15k away from the sniper. step 2: tempest jumps in from the same gate as the covert ops and warps to this covert ops. this should land him on top of the sniper. step 3: sniper who is pre aligned to safespot at full speed warps away even before the tempest arrive.
Kuolematon	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:30:00 - [10] I talked to alot of DEV's in FanFest and belive it or not but this is one of the major things that bugs them too. They are going to deal with 'em pretty soon. ________________________________________________________ Freedom is illusion created by weird voices in my head
Nafri	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:31:00 - [11] maybe you warp out and come back? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head!
Darcon	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:33:00 - [12] The issue is more one of instant warping. Even with a covert ops to drop your frigs right on the sniper, and even if the sniper had no WCS to speak of, a ship at full speed, properly alligned, will go to warp far faster than even an interceptor can drop out of warp, lock and scramble. A minimal delay added to warp activation, regardless of orientation, would allow a tackler to engage them without being foiled by warp in lag and setup time. That doesn't cure the low slots full of WCSs issue, but it does allow protection from the lag monster.
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:33:00 - [13] Edited by: DukDodgerz on 24/10/2005 14:36:09 The problem with a lotof the responses to the OP is, the sniper is solo, and runs at the first sign of anything not being to his advantage. No cov-ops tactic will work. WHY?!?! he will see the blob enter the system, and ss or warp to a gate and jump. The second problem is, all those responding are the same type that grief, or believe that pvp is the same as griefing, (it isn't btw). Ther is no way to counter a griefer that is sniping as the game is. Before any other players post, try to kill a sniper that refuses to sit there while you shoot at it, use as many ships as you can (no b.s. crud of using your buddy to sit there while you shoot and kill, the sniper has to evade). Sniper sees a large group from same corp enter system, sniper warps off to ss or to jump away. COV-OPS cannot target and lock, to web or scramble, faster then an aligned BS moving at full speed. You will find it can't be done unless they sit still.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Hot Karl Originally by: Jernau Gurgeh 3) Snipers are not invulnerable. enlighten us otherwise get out of my thread and my shift caps lock apostrophe question mark comma and period keys are all broken at the same time strange coincidence isnt it Broken along with your ability to count low slots on a ship or broken like your ability to come up with tactics to kill lamers?
Amrotis	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:35:00 - [15] Originally by: KIATolon You just need a ship with a jabillion guns on and you can one volley him. Seriously though, set up a trap, get him agro and probe him out, then warp your fleet on top of him and kill him. heh. A fleet is a little overkill? :o
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Jernau Gurgeh 3) Snipers are not invulnerable. What he says. ____________________________________________________ Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
Nafri	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Darcon The issue is more one of instant warping. Even with a covert ops to drop your frigs right on the sniper, and even if the sniper had no WCS to speak of, a ship at full speed, properly alligned, will go to warp far faster than even an interceptor can drop out of warp, lock and scramble. A minimal delay added to warp activation, regardless of orientation, would allow a tackler to engage them without being foiled by warp in lag and setup time. That doesn't cure the low slots full of WCSs issue, but it does allow protection from the lag monster. when hes speeded up he cant snipe very well -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head!
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:38:00 - [18] Snipers die every day :\ It'll be even easier when the eye-for-an-eye thing comes out and you gank him in Yulai or when hes trying to dock. Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Marcsen	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:39:00 - [19] Takes a bit of practice, but all you need is a covert ops and a bs. place the covert ops so your bs bumps the sniper when coming out of warp - dang, he's unaligned. now be fast and bring in your tackling frigs. boom ---[G]---
Sorja	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:39:00 - [20] A good sniper IS invulnerable. I managed to catch snipers with my Covert acting like a warp-in point for interceptors, granted, but it was only against bad or bored snipers. The bad snipers aren't moving, and the bored snipers can afford to lose a ship and just play cat and mouse to see how far they can push their luck. Good snipers are invulnerable and in Empire killing newbies show a hole in the game design. Kill mails
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Marcsen Takes a bit of practice, but all you need is a covert ops and a bs. place the covert ops so your bs bumps the sniper when coming out of warp - dang, he's unaligned. now be fast and bring in your tackling frigs. boom Thing is, if he has a clue, hes not sitting there.
hylleX	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:43:00 - [22] Give WCS 5% damage decrease per WCS fitted. Then it doesnt affect ppl who are hauling or whatevva. Well kids you've tried your best and failed miserably, the lesson is: never try

Abdalion	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:44:00 - [23] Originally by: gfldex When is CCP going to deal with 100% punctuation free posts? We aren't, but we do deal with people who post off topic in a trollish manner. --- forum rules \| [email protected] I ♥ You.... ® Shepherd of the [23]

Marcsen	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Luc Boye Originally by: Marcsen Takes a bit of practice, but all you need is a covert ops and a bs. place the covert ops so your bs bumps the sniper when coming out of warp - dang, he's unaligned. now be fast and bring in your tackling frigs. boom Thing is, if he has a clue, hes not sitting there. Your right, but then again someone with a clue would notice that there are more exciting things to do in eve than sniping on the first hand, but thats just my pov ---[G]---
Order 666	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Hot Karl Originally by: Jernau Gurgeh 3) Snipers are not invulnerable. enlighten us otherwise get out of my thread and my shift caps lock apostrophe question mark comma and period keys are all broken at the same time strange coincidence isnt it LOL - that's a new one - flaming your own thread...
Xthril Ranger	Posted - 2005.10.24 14:49:00 - [26] I was wondering , if he is moving at full speed at all times , wouldnt he either get out of range or become unaligned at some point? hirr
Kunming	Posted - 2005.10.24 15:00:00 - [27] Originally by: Xthril Ranger I was wondering , if he is moving at full speed at all times , wouldnt he either get out of range or become unaligned at some point? The speeding up starts when the local pops up, or there is gate activity, etc. Anyway they are not invulnerable its just that its a very low risk compared to the high reward. 1 man, that needs a whole group efford to take him out. Tactics wary from counter-sniping with lotsa BSs to bumping him out of alignment with a stealth bombers/ covert ops while an interceptor is already in warp towards you with the dmg ships waiting to jump in and warp. They are certainly not invulnerable but its also not balanced that 1 ship can cause such a trouble with such a simple setup. Intercepting since BETA
maximyus	Posted - 2005.10.24 15:13:00 - [28] when is ccp going to make ****s like u constantly flagged. please resize your signature graphic so that it conforms with the EVE-Online forum guidelines and please refrain from trolling in your signature quote - Jacques'
Semkhet	Posted - 2005.10.24 15:14:00 - [29] A sniper is not a balanced setup. If solo, he has to use tracking Enhancers and maybe 1 or 2 damage mods in the lows, and Tracking Comps + Sensor boosters in the mids. Almost no room for anything else. All guns are long range, what means that close defense may probably only be achieved with drones. I personally saw a Thorax blow up a Megathron sniper because once u're close, they are dead. Effectively, if he's moving, then just put a cloaked ship in front of him. Besides, the sniper can't move in the same direction ad infinitum because he would loose his optimal to the 15 Km gate range most ships warp at when jumping out of a system. There's always a moment when it must urn 180¦ degrees to align with the opposite safespot, and that's when u can get it pretty easely.
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.10.24 15:15:00 - [30] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Snipers die every day :\ It'll be even easier when the eye-for-an-eye thing comes out and you gank him in Yulai or when hes trying to dock. Yeah, that's definitely going to make things interesting for those gate camping types. :) winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Tar om	Posted - 2005.10.24 15:22:00 - [31] just jump into "his" gate with a better sniper and pwn him at his own game! :) -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net "The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."
Tar om	Posted - 2005.10.24 15:22:00 - [32] just jump into "his" gate with a better sniper and pwn him at his own game! :) -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net "The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.10.24 16:35:00 - [33] Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 24/10/2005 16:36:28 Originally by: DigitalCommunist It'll be even easier when the eye-for-an-eye thing comes out and you gank him in Yulai or when hes trying to dock. Why would someone like me be in Yulai?
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.10.24 16:35:00 - [34] Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 24/10/2005 16:36:28 Originally by: DigitalCommunist It'll be even easier when the eye-for-an-eye thing comes out and you gank him in Yulai or when hes trying to dock. Why would someone like me be in Yulai?
kcahn	Posted - 2005.10.24 17:25:00 - [35] Originally by: maximyus when is ccp going to make ****s like u constantly flagged. well judging by your sig, you haven't and will never be laid. a pointer, mature a lot, FAST!
kcahn	Posted - 2005.10.24 17:25:00 - [36] Originally by: maximyus when is ccp going to make ****s like u constantly flagged. well judging by your sig, you haven't and will never be laid. a pointer, mature a lot, FAST!
Thomas Torquemada	Posted - 2005.10.24 17:30:00 - [37] Originally by: Hot Karl you all know the situation theres a guy sitting 150km from the gate picking off small ships in one shot and as soon as you make a move for him he runs away no ship can cover that distance before your pre-aligned sniper can warp to his safe spot and you cant snipe them back because they can just warp to thier pre-aligned safe spot and if you use a cov ops to get in range with your tacklers he still gets away because he has 11 wcs the only way you can fight them is to not engage but then everyone thinks you are afraid but you arent afraid you just know you cant compete with his 100% safe carebear tactics If hes packing tons of wcs, his chances of hitting at 150k is somewhat unbelievable, at the VERY best they will pack 1-2 stabs, otherwise they wont be hitting anything. Besides, the belts are clear because of agent missions, gate work is risky/unrealiable/unprofitable, which leaves us with what exactly? dunno about others but ill place my bet on sniping. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Thomas Torquemada	Posted - 2005.10.24 17:30:00 - [38] Originally by: Hot Karl you all know the situation theres a guy sitting 150km from the gate picking off small ships in one shot and as soon as you make a move for him he runs away no ship can cover that distance before your pre-aligned sniper can warp to his safe spot and you cant snipe them back because they can just warp to thier pre-aligned safe spot and if you use a cov ops to get in range with your tacklers he still gets away because he has 11 wcs the only way you can fight them is to not engage but then everyone thinks you are afraid but you arent afraid you just know you cant compete with his 100% safe carebear tactics If hes packing tons of wcs, his chances of hitting at 150k is somewhat unbelievable, at the VERY best they will pack 1-2 stabs, otherwise they wont be hitting anything. Besides, the belts are clear because of agent missions, gate work is risky/unrealiable/unprofitable, which leaves us with what exactly? dunno about others but ill place my bet on sniping. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Thomas Torquemada	Posted - 2005.10.24 17:32:00 - [39] Edited by: Thomas Torquemada on 24/10/2005 17:32:37 Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Sarmaul step 1: covert ops flies in though another gate. sits 15k away from the sniper. step 2: tempest jumps in from the same gate as the covert ops and warps to this covert ops. this should land him on top of the sniper. step 3: sniper who is pre aligned to safespot at full speed warps away even before the tempest arrive. the cvops can very easily bump the pirate ship from the front stopping/pausing his now unlikely escape. its not rocket science here kids. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Thomas Torquemada	Posted - 2005.10.24 17:32:00 - [40] Edited by: Thomas Torquemada on 24/10/2005 17:32:37 Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Sarmaul step 1: covert ops flies in though another gate. sits 15k away from the sniper. step 2: tempest jumps in from the same gate as the covert ops and warps to this covert ops. this should land him on top of the sniper. step 3: sniper who is pre aligned to safespot at full speed warps away even before the tempest arrive. the cvops can very easily bump the pirate ship from the front stopping/pausing his now unlikely escape. its not rocket science here kids. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Muthsera	Posted - 2005.10.24 18:00:00 - [41] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Snipers die every day :\ hear yee, hear yee. SoonÖ
Muthsera	Posted - 2005.10.24 18:00:00 - [42] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Snipers die every day :\ hear yee, hear yee. SoonÖ
Shin Ra	Posted - 2005.10.24 19:01:00 - [43] Stealth bombers 4tw
Shin Ra	Posted - 2005.10.24 19:01:00 - [44] Stealth bombers 4tw
Hakera	Posted - 2005.10.24 20:29:00 - [45] snipers are the current flavour of the month, especially in situations where your outnumbered. IMO their abilities lie with overpowered modules such as sensor boosters and dmg mods which I firmly believe should have their bonuses seperated into different modules. I also believe EW is overpowered in its current state and with no pending review of ECCM, there is no counter against damps or tracking disruptors for eg. Being a sniper is fine, but being able to deal good damage and for all intense purposes be completly safe (any sniper will be practically immune unless they are pure unlucky that a ceptor or CO has their current position bm'd already) not to mention the wcs fitted snipers which warp in a little closer but are again for all intense purposes impossible to tackle as getting 4+ points of scrambling on each ship is extremely diffcult given the normal practice immediatly after warp in of aligning for a warp out to a ss again. I really have a problem with the modules used, not the tactic, stacked wcs, sensor boosters, dmg mods are the problem insomuch as the tactic that comes from their use. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2005.10.24 20:29:00 - [46] snipers are the current flavour of the month, especially in situations where your outnumbered. IMO their abilities lie with overpowered modules such as sensor boosters and dmg mods which I firmly believe should have their bonuses seperated into different modules. I also believe EW is overpowered in its current state and with no pending review of ECCM, there is no counter against damps or tracking disruptors for eg. Being a sniper is fine, but being able to deal good damage and for all intense purposes be completly safe (any sniper will be practically immune unless they are pure unlucky that a ceptor or CO has their current position bm'd already) not to mention the wcs fitted snipers which warp in a little closer but are again for all intense purposes impossible to tackle as getting 4+ points of scrambling on each ship is extremely diffcult given the normal practice immediatly after warp in of aligning for a warp out to a ss again. I really have a problem with the modules used, not the tactic, stacked wcs, sensor boosters, dmg mods are the problem insomuch as the tactic that comes from their use. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.24 20:35:00 - [47] If the sniper is really on the ball and is slow speed he could warp out as soon as a covert ops comes within 2500m. But I digress. This is all awfully complicated to counter someone who'se probably popped 8 ships before someone who can even use a covert ops ponders taking him out. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.24 20:35:00 - [48] If the sniper is really on the ball and is slow speed he could warp out as soon as a covert ops comes within 2500m. But I digress. This is all awfully complicated to counter someone who'se probably popped 8 ships before someone who can even use a covert ops ponders taking him out. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Berak FalCheran	Posted - 2005.10.24 23:22:00 - [49] Originally by: Hot Karl whine whine whine whine whine I won't even touch on the fact that your post is barely legible. Grow a pair and try taking a sniper out instead of postulating about how impossible it is on the boards. These threads are pretty annoying. I've lost a 2x Tempests while sniping, and I'm not an idiot either (though, I really wasn't paying attention one of those times lol -- the first time though, I was wtfpwned by a simple plan and some decent pilots) To paraphrase uhm... Istvaan, IIRC: OHNOES I WENT INTO LOW SEC AND AM BEING PVPD HELP ME CCP! Originally by: Malthros Zenobia In short: Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
Hot Karl	Posted - 2005.10.25 00:36:00 - [50] Originally by: Berak FalCheran Originally by: Hot Karl whine whine whine whine whine I won't even touch on the fact that your post is barely legible. Grow a pair and try taking a sniper out instead of postulating about how impossible it is on the boards. These threads are pretty annoying. I've lost a 2x Tempests while sniping, and I'm not an idiot either (though, I really wasn't paying attention one of those times lol -- the first time though, I was wtfpwned by a simple plan and some decent pilots) To paraphrase uhm... Istvaan, IIRC: OHNOES I WENT INTO LOW SEC AND AM BEING PVPD HELP ME CCP! ive got no problem with pvp in fact i like to fight the problem care bears like you dont want a fight you just want free easy ganks why dont you actually fight instead of sitting 150km out one shot killing everything that comes through the gate o thats right you dont do it because its not 100% safe like sniping
CargoCult	Posted - 2005.10.25 00:40:00 - [51] I have two point to make 1) thier not invlunerable - all the tactics so far mentioned will work - and to be honest most sinpers seem to be cowards, my solution - jump in a tempest, they seem to leg fast enough that way (ok so thier not dead but moved will do for me) 2) they effect disporpotionally newer players this is the actually problems, thier kills are mostly firgs and low skilled cruisers - ships which really CANNOT fight back as to what you can do about this? i have no idea, but the latter is the part that needs some work big flashing sign would do it (serosly actually) -------------------------------------------------- All the right letters, just not nescacarily in the right order - morcam and wise Its not working sir! Well thump it then
MarieDanae Alliaume	Posted - 2005.10.25 00:58:00 - [52] Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Hot Karl Originally by: Jernau Gurgeh 3) Snipers are not invulnerable. enlighten us otherwise get out of my thread and my shift caps lock apostrophe question mark comma and period keys are all broken at the same time strange coincidence isnt it Broken along with your ability to count low slots on a ship or broken like your ability to come up with tactics to kill lamers? This is comedy coming from you and your corperation. I know all about your lame operations in the Aulbres/Vestovue corridor. The original poster is correct. ATM, there is NO-WAY in combating any sniper. They have all the cards in their hands. CCP, really needs to look into this.
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2005.10.25 01:02:00 - [53] I have been dealing with a group of good snipers 'back then' when I was still in GW and I have to agree with the OP. If done right, snipers are invulnerable and highly effective. A quick fix would be to give dampners a decent optimal again allowing you to break their lock and counter them without having to resort to a little fleet of tacklers and damage dealers plus a covert ops. It's a myth that you can't hit at 150km without a lot of tracking enhancers as well. I can assure you my Megathron hits quite fine at 150km with only two tracking enhancers in the lows. Add two damage mods and three stabs and you're pretty much invulnerable and the most annoying thing since ever. Besides, I think we have to remove empire pirating snipers from the equation here as the thing is even WORSE when guys like Burn Eden come into your alliance space with a covert and 3-5 sniping ships and camp key gates and stations ALL DAY LONG without you being able to do a thing about it. And you get to do it from like 130km which is way safer with the 150km warp thing AND more damaging.
Necolycan	Posted - 2005.10.25 01:04:00 - [54] I dont understand what the problem is. They have designed a ship to do this by fitting the different modules. What do you want them to do? Its a trap, they set up FOR THE ADVANTAGE and it works. You just want EVERYTHING in the game to be balanced and fair, which ruins tactics. Get over it.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.25 01:05:00 - [55] The only problem with snipers is that they can align and instantly warp out the instant you do anything. It is impossible to kill a properly aligned sniper, atm. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
MarieDanae Alliaume	Posted - 2005.10.25 01:11:00 - [56] Edited by: MarieDanae Alliaume on 25/10/2005 01:13:40 Originally by: Necolycan I dont understand what the problem is. They have designed a ship to do this by fitting the different modules. What do you want them to do? Its a trap, they set up FOR THE ADVANTAGE and it works. You just want EVERYTHING in the game to be balanced and fair, which ruins tactics. Get over it. Spoken like a true retard. Being balanced and fair, has nothing to do with tactics. Hell, you probably consider sitting at a gate and ganking ships, tactics.
Torpedo2k	Posted - 2005.10.25 01:19:00 - [57] Karl you are so Hot... There are no: 1-Safe spots 2-Ore thieves 3-Corp thieves Just people that do not understand game mechanics.
Berak FalCheran	Posted - 2005.10.25 02:17:00 - [58] Originally by: Hot Karl ive got no problem with pvp in fact i like to fight the problem care bears like you dont want a fight you just want free easy ganks why dont you actually fight instead of sitting 150km out one shot killing everything that comes through the gate o thats right you dont do it because its not 100% safe like sniping Thanks, I do a lot of fighting other that sniping. Again: OHNOES I WENT INTO LOW SEC AND AM BEING PVPD HELP ME CCP! Originally by: Malthros Zenobia In short: Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
Domalais	Posted - 2005.10.25 02:19:00 - [59] Originally by: Dark Shikari The only problem with snipers is that they can align and instantly warp out the instant you do anything. It is impossible to kill a properly aligned sniper, atm. Get the covert ops in front of him and approach. If he gets into warp before your ship bumps him, he deserves to get away. Assuming a combined velocity of 400 m/s, he's got 6 seconds from the instant you break 2500m.
NeBuLa OrioN	Posted - 2005.10.25 02:40:00 - [60] forget the snipers their will always be some gate where someone will/wants to shoot at you its your choice to jump that gate and also your choice in wich ship and cargo you take true that gate if you feel unsafe in your biggest ship take something smaller take a dif route or let a buddy scout .. its not me shooting at you from 150km thats the prob.. YOU getting shot IS the prob and no matter what nerv/buff/change ppl like me will always find a way to shoot ppl near/on/above a gate ...and its your job to work around it The Orion Nebula star-birth region is 1,500 light-years away, in the direction of the constellation Orion the Hunter
Masu'di	Posted - 2005.10.25 02:50:00 - [61] before they erm nerferd warping you could accurately insta warp on top of somone, smacking into thier ship and sending it spinning, which would mess up their warp alignement to SS quite a bit. unfortunately they nerferd warping a while ago for the gate campers :/
lopp syded	Posted - 2005.10.25 03:39:00 - [62] Edited by: lopp syded on 25/10/2005 03:40:16 Edited by: lopp syded on 25/10/2005 03:39:45 Sorry to troll, but if your shift key is broken how did you type in % and ? in your topic??? And btw, vulgar names arent very fun. Hot karl? Im willing to bet a dev can find that one on wikipedia or a south park web site
Mad Scorpion	Posted - 2005.10.25 03:54:00 - [63] No setup is invulnerable, some just take more time to counter. Raming with a high speed covert, then webbing is one good way to slow down the insta-warp. Cap drain can keep any ship from warping away regardless of the number of WCS. Drop a secure can in front of the gate that leads to the sniper. Name it "Sniper at jump-in. Choose another route." He'll get bored and move on. Hire a good Merc corp to 'deal' with the sniper if you can't. If you want it, I can get it.......for a price. Mad Scorpion Mad Scorpion Enterprises
Henka	Posted - 2005.10.25 05:20:00 - [64] Originally by: CargoCult I have two point to make 1) thier not invlunerable - all the tactics so far mentioned will work - and to be honest most sinpers seem to be cowards, my solution - jump in a tempest, they seem to leg fast enough that way (ok so thier not dead but moved will do for me) 2) they effect disporpotionally newer players this is the actually problems, thier kills are mostly firgs and low skilled cruisers - ships which really CANNOT fight back as to what you can do about this? i have no idea, but the latter is the part that needs some work big flashing sign would do it (serosly actually) yeah, right. If you have a little bitt of practise with what we in the old TPS used to call "instawarp" you should now that he is pretty much unstoppable. If a bs manages to get within 5k with a warp to a covert ops, he will be needing 3-4 sensor boosters to even get a lock before he warps away. Right now, if you are aligned with something at even the tiniest speed (1-10m sec) he will warp away before you even get the chance of pressing the LOCK thingy. try it out dude. btw, if i pack 2 sensor boosters i will only have 2 scramblers. A ship with 4 wcs needs -5 to be stopped. 4 WCS is perfectly viable cuz he will still have 4 dmg mods and whatever sensor boosters/trackingcomps he wants in the medslots. 9/10 people posting here dont even know what the OP is talking about. you are just making yourself look like a.. (im not going there). anyway, try it out. align with something and press warp. You will be away before you know it.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.25 09:34:00 - [65] Originally by: Domalais Originally by: Dark Shikari The only problem with snipers is that they can align and instantly warp out the instant you do anything. It is impossible to kill a properly aligned sniper, atm. Get the covert ops in front of him and approach. If he gets into warp before your ship bumps him, he deserves to get away. Assuming a combined velocity of 400 m/s, he's got 6 seconds from the instant you break 2500m. ? When you are perfectly aligned, you will warp the instant you click warp--no waiting. And you can't really bump a battleship with a covert ops, thats like bumping a freighter with your osprey. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Semkhet	Posted - 2005.10.25 09:38:00 - [66] Edited by: Semkhet on 25/10/2005 09:44:11 I fly CovOps, and also sniped a lot when doing lvl4 kill missions at 100 to 150 Km. 1) If you want to snipe solo at a gate, no matter what your exact setup is, you cant indefinitely fly towards a single safespot at full speed because soon or later, your gun range will become ineffective and your shots will bounce. 2) Therefore you fly very slowly to be able to stay in the optimal range as long as possible. A 400 m/s CovOps appearing at the side of your ship will bounce you in 5-6 secs. But who ever said that this CovOp doesent have AB or MWD ? Mine does. Therefore, I will bounce you in way less time. You will not bounce much, but hopefully just the right amount to get you slightly out of line so I may buy a few extra seconds. 3) Now it is precisely in the direction you are looking at, the gate, where you aren't flying towards in order to maintain your optimal. Your overview will suddenly show that a ship appeared near you and is closing in fast. But I am not targetting you, my goal is to bring your ship out of warp alignement. Therefore you only will have a few seconds to notice it by explicitely looking at your overview. 4) Before uncloaking, I've already informed the ships I support, ideally two, full of scramblers and webbers, to warp to me. It is the only critical part of the operation because it requieres a good timing. Too soon, and they will appear before I got you out of warp alignement, too late, and they come in when you have maybe managed to readquire again your warp line. 5) Besides, the best moment is to wait until the sniper starts shooting at something who will take some time to go down, like a cruiser. Most of the time, the sniper will focus on the damage he's doing instead of continuously monitorizing his overview. That's all. And it's easy in the sense that you must suck from A to Z to loose a close range engagement against a sniper, so it's almost a risk-free operation. Consider this, when you go in a system and you notice a sniper, you have all the time to prepare your wing without the sniper noticing it. You may even create a multi-corp wing in order not to warn the sniper that a coherent group is coming in. What's not easy is simply the timing.
Malken	Posted - 2005.10.25 09:44:00 - [67] if they put in incentives for pirates to do other things like pirating and ransoming without having sentrys shooting at them then the sniping would most likely be a minor occurance. all pirates i know like to hunt their pray in cruisers and frigs but CCP has more or less forced pirates to use sniping tactics.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.10.25 09:54:00 - [68] Originally by: Vol Jbolaz Hot Karl, sorry, dude, but your gross inability to conform to any standards of grammar completely negates anything you might want to say. Aside from that, I do agree that it is terribly hard to splash a sniper. If he is paying attention, you should only get him when the gods intervene. I do not think this is broken from a game mechanic point of view. I think from a game world point of view, the people who put the sentries in place would be looking into investing more money and putting sentries further from the gate. There is a tipping point, once snipers wreak more havoc than it would cost to move or upgrade the sentries, the sentries will move and curb sniping. From a player point of view, I think it would be best to make sniping less profitable. Cook up ships that can move fast enough to avoid being sniped. My Mammoth was taken down the instant before it completed its speed up to enter warp. The answer, configure my Mammoth as a blockade runner, get a smaller Hoarder to configure as a blockade runner, or actually get the skills for a blockade runner. Also, run with scouts. Sure, it slows you down, but if snipers don't get prey, they'll find something else to do. Oh, and the MK2 change will help you more than it will help the sniper. Not really sure how much more, but still. I think there are a lot of game world avenues that are missing. Players can create stations, but we can't put up sentries of our own at gates? tech2 indies are hard to snipe, especially blockade runners with nanos like always in Eve, you just need the right setup for the right situation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head!
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.25 09:57:00 - [69] Originally by: Sarmaul step 1: covert ops flies in though another gate. sits 15k away from the sniper. step 2: tempest jumps in from the same gate as the covert ops and warps to this covert ops. this should land him on top of the sniper. And the sniper who is already aligned and at full speed toward a safe spot warps to his safe. You cant lock and scramble somone in under a second. The only thing the OP got wrong is that they dont even need 1 WCS. All they need to do is warp off whenever someone warps in on them. It is a sad state of affairs that one person can evade the teamwork of 5 and there is not a damn thing they can do about it. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. If you act like a sheep, expect to be shorn and knitted into a colorful sweater.
The Red	Posted - 2005.10.25 09:59:00 - [70] Quote: This is comedy coming from you and your corperation. I know all about your lame operations in the Aulbres/Vestovue corridor. The original poster is correct. ATM, there is NO-WAY in combating any sniper. They have all the cards in their hands. CCP, really needs to look into this. You dropped your stuff. -The Red "Reuniting you with your clone since 2003"
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.25 10:12:00 - [71] Originally by: Domalais Originally by: Dark Shikari The only problem with snipers is that they can align and instantly warp out the instant you do anything. It is impossible to kill a properly aligned sniper, atm. Get the covert ops in front of him and approach. If he gets into warp before your ship bumps him, he deserves to get away. Assuming a combined velocity of 400 m/s, he's got 6 seconds from the instant you break 2500m. LOL ... 6 seconds is an eternity in pvp. Any competent sniper could do that while half drunk. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. If you act like a sheep, expect to be shorn and knitted into a colorful sweater.
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.25 10:18:00 - [72] The fix, in my opinion, is to make it so that ships ALWAYS require some amount of time, no matter how fast they are going, in order to jump into warp. Warping shouldnt be based on the speed of the ship but rather the time it takes to build a warp field big enough for the vessel. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. If you act like a sheep, expect to be shorn and knitted into a colorful sweater.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.25 10:26:00 - [73] Originally by: Derisor The fix, in my opinion, is to make it so that ships ALWAYS require some amount of time, no matter how fast they are going, in order to jump into warp. Warping shouldnt be based on the speed of the ship but rather the time it takes to build a warp field big enough for the vessel. The problem with this is it would also make it impossible to get past a well set-up gatecamp. Its a two-edged sword. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
CargoCult	Posted - 2005.10.25 12:41:00 - [74] Originally by: Henka Originally by: CargoCult I have two point to make ) yeah, right. If you have a little bitt of practise with what we in the old TPS used to call "instawarp" you should now that he is pretty much unstoppable. If a bs manages to get within 5k with a warp to a covert ops, he will be needing 3-4 sensor boosters to even get a lock before he warps away. Right now, if you are aligned with something at even the tiniest speed (1-10m sec) he will warp away before you even get the chance of pressing the LOCK thingy. try it out dude. btw, if i pack 2 sensor boosters i will only have 2 scramblers. A ship with 4 wcs needs -5 to be stopped. 4 WCS is perfectly viable cuz he will still have 4 dmg mods and whatever sensor boosters/trackingcomps he wants in the medslots. 9/10 people posting here dont even know what the OP is talking about. you are just making yourself look like a.. (im not going there). anyway, try it out. align with something and press warp. You will be away before you know it. Er you missed the point - point being they run away - which tends to be good enough for me and the threat they are is mostly still to small ships and or newer players, now that is a pain, i still think a big flashing sign saying sniper spotted! would help -------------------------------------------------- All the right letters, just not nescacarily in the right order - morcam and wise Its not working sir! Well thump it then
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.10.25 12:48:00 - [75] extend the range damage of sentry guns - if they aggro and u get away make sure that they are aggro'ed for 30 minutes so they cant attack someone else for that time
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.10.25 13:02:00 - [76] I have to agree with the OP here. This only really affects newer players. It is all too easy to setup a ship that can cause a good amount of damage to a frigate or industrial at 200km. This is a single-ship setup. I was sniped a while back, and yes I should have known better. I jumped into Hagilur and before my industrial had even aligned, our beloved Ginger Magician insta locked me and gave me all 7 barrels of a geddon. More to the point though, he safespotted instantly, and logged with a neutral alt fo gloat and come pickup my loot. And this pattern repeats. Logging in with two characters, one to shoot, the other to loot. As the suggestions above have commented. It would be fairly easy to get a covert ops to target and scramble his ship. But unfortunately, again as pointed out. A solo ship would stand no chance of closing the range undetected, locking and scrambling the sniper before he warped, and putting enough damage to the sniper to destroy him. The alternative is to bring a fleet along, but the single sniper can just safespot or log as soon as local goes above 4-5 people. There are solo setups that would counter this, there are tactics that would counter this. But both require either experience or a few million in skillpoints or training. I'm all for sniper setups, if people like Teddybears can get ships out at that range and have a team working together, then it's fine. Also snipers are invaluable for fleet setups. Just solo sniping against newer players is far too easy. 23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC
Sir JoJo	Posted - 2005.10.25 13:16:00 - [77] i couldent be arsed to read it all. but learn and Adapt instead of go and whine on the forums is u firts step to get a sniper... it happens all the time Originally by: Eris Discordia As a minmatar I have to say the only good Amarr is a dead Amarr
Semkhet	Posted - 2005.10.25 14:03:00 - [78] Edited by: Semkhet on 25/10/2005 14:05:35 Originally by: Sir JoJo i couldent be arsed to read it all. but learn and Adapt instead of go and whine on the forums is u firts step to get a sniper... it happens all the time Exactly. I have always a cloak fitted on haulers. Even the crappest one will do the job. You warp at 15 Km of the gate, check the overview as soon you come out of warp. Any ship at 100 Km and over may be a sniper, and you hit the cloak. Problem solved. You now have all the time to check if this (or these) ship(s) are snipers if there are other ships going through the gate. They aren't ? Decloack and business as usual. If you are alone, or if these ships are snipers indeed, then stay cloaked until you get at the gate. A Sigil with 5 Nanos I still does 32 m/s even with the simplest cloak. You only need to get at 2500 from the gate, what will take you under 7 minutes. If you are using a smaller ship, then you even have less problems. First, because sniper ships don't insta-lock, what gives you more time to warp away to whatever object. Second, because if you cloak, you will probably still move faster than the 32 m/s of Sigils. Besides, simply using insta's also solves the problem. The way I see you getting popped out by a sniper as a gate in sec systems is to either have no clue what EVE is about in terms of game mechanics, either you travel AFK. And I suspect that the second option is what happens to most people. You set your travel course through 25 jumps, a few of them being just under 0.5 sec, and when you come back, you see your pod floating and cans gone. LMAO Unless in a shuttle, don't travel AFK. It's boring, but it's like that...
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.25 15:08:00 - [79] Originally by: Rufus Roughneck the fix, as we can so simply put it, is to diable the locking timer on covops, giving them instalock right after uncloacking. Would that unbalance much of anything ? Not really would it ? If it was only on covops (and not bombers), it would work great IMO. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Rufus Roughneck	Posted - 2005.10.25 15:08:00 - [80] Edited by: Rufus Roughneck on 25/10/2005 15:08:50 The fix, as we can so simply put it, is to disable the locking timer penalty on covops, giving them instalock right after uncloaking. Would that unbalance much of anything ? Not really would it ? And a dedicated buzz\ard can flied -8 tackling power. I'd love to see a sniper beat that and still be able to snipe well.
KIATolon	Posted - 2005.10.25 15:23:00 - [81] Quote: When is CCP going to deal with 100% invulnerable snipers? When they start existing.
eve warrior	Posted - 2005.10.25 15:36:00 - [82] I see ppl here complaining that a sniper BS can just pop a frig with one shot and hauler in one volly, Lets do the maths. BS = 102 mill Tech II guns and Mods = +-100 mill (or atleast on my setup) Tech 1 Frig = 280k Industrial ship = 300k to 500k Now put in afew mill sp into gunnery and i would be very disapointed if i could NOT kill a tech I frig or Hauler from 160km . Use the Map, if u see 5 pod kills in the last hour, AVOID that system. Even better, get a covert ops into that system to scout it out and if there are snipers, then get a gang together and do something about it. Avoid coming to low sec space if this bothers you so much By the way, i really would like to get my hands on a bs that i can fit 11 wcs in and still hit targets from 160km, dam just 11 low slots would do me fine. Eve Warrior
Hot Karl	Posted - 2005.10.25 15:48:00 - [83] doesnt anybody know what hyperbole is my writing style is deliberate whats your excuse just the simple fact that all these snipers are showing up saying no nothing is wrong nothing to see is proof that it needs to be looked at you even have people who have confessed to being snipers coming in here and saying yes its true as long as i dont fall asleep at the keyboard i can never be destroyed and its still not enough to prove that something is wrong
Takitoo	Posted - 2005.10.25 15:52:00 - [84] Originally by: Hot Karl doesnt anybody know what hyperbole is my writing style is deliberate whats your excuse just the simple fact that all these snipers are showing up saying no nothing is wrong nothing to see is proof that it needs to be looked at you even have people who have confessed to being snipers coming in here and saying yes its true as long as i dont fall asleep at the keyboard i can never be destroyed and its still not enough to prove that something is wrong Ialsodisagreewithsnipingasitseemsrathercheaptome. SnipinginEVEisjustaboutthesamethingasspawncamping. Sureyou'llwinthematch,buthowmanypeoplearereallyhavingfun ? IhopeCCPdoessomethingaboutit,asIunderstandandagreewithbeltpiracy,butseesnipingascheapOOCmetagamingtactics.
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.25 15:55:00 - [85] Don't be an idiot. Even 2-3 day players regularly carry 1-2 million of mods on their frigate or destroyer, and Haulers regularly carry millions worth of cargo and sometimes even dozens of millions worth of mods and cargo. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
eve warrior	Posted - 2005.10.25 16:03:00 - [86] Originally by: Derron Bel Don't be an idiot. Even 2-3 day players regularly carry 1-2 million of mods on their frigate or destroyer, and Haulers regularly carry millions worth of cargo and sometimes even dozens of millions worth of mods and cargo. LMAO, 2-3 day Player with Millions in his cargo means he is proberlay an Alt. I have yet to shoot a noob with that amount of isk/items in his Frig. And if you are carring Millions worth of cargo in your hauler, you should get someone to Scout for you before going to LOW SEC space. Just because ppl are lazy they need to find somewhere to put the blame because they lost a ship and got podded. Eve warrior
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.25 16:23:00 - [87] Punisher - 285,000 isk 3x Dual Afocal Light Maser - 300,000 isk 9x Frequency Crystal - 54,000 isk Monopropellant Hydrazine Boosters - 60,000 isk Cap Recharger I - 16,000 isk Small Armor Repper I - 17,000 isk PDU - 16,000 isk 100mm Titanium Plates - 55,000 isk C3s Heatsink - 9,000 isk that's 812,000 isk, without cargo, and not counting podding. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Thomas Torquemada	Posted - 2005.10.25 16:23:00 - [88] Snipers attract gank squads, of these people any of them can be cv-ops, and to say that a cvops with a gang cannot take on a sniper is incorrect, it can and has been done. Killing a sniper is not meant to be an assured thing, simply because you bring a ton of ships to battle this evil foe. Disable snipers (and the new stack nerf most likely will) and its back to pack gate ganks, i know "joe random small corp" would rather bring their forces to nail 1 man than they would a fully combat ready pirate squad. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Thomas Torquemada	Posted - 2005.10.25 16:36:00 - [89] the map is your friend, as is the "always fly in safe zones" option. pirates have way more going against them than for them as it is. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Jack Tau	Posted - 2005.10.25 16:58:00 - [90] Better yet, form an ambush. Go to a popular sniping gate(The big red blobs on the map) just after DT with a couple of bs's, and cloak them both 50KM from the gate(Make sure nobody bumps you). Then sit back and wait. When they turn up, go park yourself directly in front of them and then go at them full speed, you'll bump, uncloak, knock him off his alignment and then you can both have your way with him. You could do it any time really, but you'd have to wait around a bit longer..
Yith Solarius	Posted - 2005.10.25 17:11:00 - [91] surely a couple of stealth bombers could do the trick, just fly into him once proximity forces decloak lock scram and start blasting, by that time you'll be on top of him and will force him out of allignment, plus you'll can use some -2 scrams too as range isn't an issue. Todays Idea: Security Ratings
Jack Tau	Posted - 2005.10.25 17:15:00 - [92] Originally by: Thomas Torquemada the map is your friend, as is the "always fly in safe zones" option. pirates have way more going against them than for them as it is. That is true, except pirate tend to go for gates that you can't go around.. Like low sec pockets in empire, or that bloody torrinos/ec gate.
Gronsak	Posted - 2005.10.25 17:26:00 - [93] OMG snipers are ebil imo lets all go to our relavent goverments and ask them to break our RL sniper soilders legs, so that after they shoot a victem they cant move on so easily and be lost TO be an effective sniper takes a lot of skills, time, a expensive SHIP and mods it is true they are hard to kill but not impossible at all i mean they allign to the safespot, but after a few mins they are out of optimal, and need to warp out and back in (if smart at a different snipe spot on the gate) so at that point, get ur MWD 6kmps intercepter to get to him within 15sec. soon as u can see him, ull know which way to fly, he will still be comeing out of warp, that buys u a good 5 sec, and u can get to him before he picks up speed to warp out again but then again i think out army should only hire cripled snipers, u know to make things fair for the noob army around the world its not fair that they are hard to find and kill.
Hot Karl	Posted - 2005.10.25 17:50:00 - [94] Originally by: Gronsak OMG snipers are ebil imo lets all go to our relavent goverments and ask them to break our RL sniper soilders legs, so that after they shoot a victem they cant move on so easily and be lost TO be an effective sniper takes a lot of skills, time, a expensive SHIP and mods it is true they are hard to kill but not impossible at all i mean they allign to the safespot, but after a few mins they are out of optimal, and need to warp out and back in (if smart at a different snipe spot on the gate) so at that point, get ur MWD 6kmps intercepter to get to him within 15sec. soon as u can see him, ull know which way to fly, he will still be comeing out of warp, that buys u a good 5 sec, and u can get to him before he picks up speed to warp out again but then again i think out army should only hire cripled snipers, u know to make things fair for the noob army around the world its not fair that they are hard to find and kill. and real life enters into this conversation exactly how and why am i not surprised to see all of these known snipers come running to defend thier 100% safe tactic
Witch Doctor	Posted - 2005.10.25 18:09:00 - [95] Edited by: Witch Doctor on 25/10/2005 18:10:16 One of my favorites: 1. Put a covert buddy on top of a sniper. 2. Wait for sniper to warp out from aggro/to fetch hauler alt/whatever. 3. Warp in, cloak to disappear from scanner. 4. Uncloak as they come out of warp when they return, fire up the sensor boosters. 5. Lock and scramble as soon as they drop out of warp. 6. wtfpwn. 7. Grab can full of nice named mods.
Berak FalCheran	Posted - 2005.10.25 18:30:00 - [96] Originally by: Semkhet The way I see you getting popped out by a sniper at a gate in 0.1 to 0.4 sec systems is to either have no clue what EVE is about in terms of game mechanics, either you travel AFK. And I suspect that the second option is what happens to most people. You set your travel course through 25 jumps, a few of them being just under 0.5 sec, and when you come back, you see your pod floating and cans gone. LMAO Nah, I usually try to get the pod too. "Wait a second, I don't remember docking, wtf!?" In all seriousness that was a great sensible post, Semkhet, something rare on these forums. Kudos :) Originally by: Malthros Zenobia In short: Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
CargoCult	Posted - 2005.10.25 18:38:00 - [97] issue in a nutshell Snipers are lone pilots who are pains in the asses It takes far more than a long pilot to kill one -------------------------------------------------- All the right letters, just not nescacarily in the right order - morcam and wise Its not working sir! Well thump it then
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2005.10.25 19:17:00 - [98] Originally by: Hoshi step 3: sniper who is pre aligned to safespot at full speed warps away even before the tempest arrive. lol, not the snipers we took out. ingredients for sniper extermination: covert ops fast tackler (Tristan is perfect) with 2 -2 warp scramblers and a mwd tanked dominix with at least 12 heavy drones and 2 scramblers, a signal booster. any mix of additional cruisers, battleships, frigates Dom warps to covert ops, right on top of sniper, upsetting sniper's trajectory and releasing drones, targeting then sending the boys on him, 1 second later frig warps in with MWD and targets sniper, then engages scrambler, and orbits at 1k with mwd engaged. A few seconds later the rest of the gankers are there. Snipers in max damage setup get pwned every time by in your face attack by a decent tanked domi pilot with drones, using this tactic. There is no way they can get away.... and since they are set up for long range max damage, at less than 5 km, they aren't doing squat and pop like a wet paper bag. Covert ops pilot needs to be in precisely the right position. Avoiding snipers and gate camps: The game is fine the way it is. Snipers are a piece of cake. 1. you shouldn't be flying a hauler into known hostile space (below .5) without escort or at least a spotter. At the very minimum, check out your route ahead of time in a shuttle, and look for snipers. 2. you should make gate to gate instas in the hostile space you frequent for your routes through it. 3. in a small ship, you can jump, then check space for snipers while cloaked. Any frigate can uncloak and warp before a bs can even lock you, unless there is a blackbird (or other electronics ship) there for instalock. Even then you can sometimes get away, in a frigate or shuttle, depending on who's afk in the gate camp. (they are BORING. trips to the fridge are common) 4. never stop moving. In a hauler, refer to #1. If your route has snipers on it, park the hauler and go do something else for a while. Complaints about snipers (and other game mechanics) stem from one of 2 things: a. inexperience or b. lack of precaution due to laziness or impatience Play to win, not to be a victim and you'll be suprised at how many often complained about player tactics you can beat peacefully, without firing a shot. There are times to avoid conflict, and times to fight. Figure out what you want. Getting cargo (or yourself) from point a to point b in low security space is 50% route selection, 30% tactics and planning, 10% timing, 9% guts and quick thinking, and 1% luck. Learn how the "ships destroyed in last half hour" display setting works on the map. Any system with more than 5-10 has a gate camp, sniper, or pvp op happening. Avoid those or wait until things cool down. Avoid X70, PF, ECP8R and other known hotspots and busy choke points. If you are like me, bookmark them at 3AM EST on a wednesday night. I guarantee things are quiet. There are other routes into 0.0... If you are in a hurry fly through in a shuttle first. Often a gate camp just got busted up and the system is clear. If not, a shuttle is hard enough to lock that you'll usually be in warp by the time they target you. If you are in a corp war, or other situation where you are specifically targeted, things get grim. Best not to haul in that situation unless absolutely necessary. haul in off-peak hours. Monday-Thursday night at 10PM is perfect hauling time. Most people are getting ready for bed, or watching TV at least in the US or spending quality time with their spouse so they don't divorce them over a gaming addiction. Friday-Sunday is the absolute worst time to haul stuff around. The tactics campers use are usually not all that good. They continue to use them because there are a lot of dumb players and they continue to make isk for them. There is not tactic in the game that can't be beat. The best weapon against all camper tactics, your mind, doesn't require level 5 to be effective ; ) l8, Kal
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2005.10.25 19:30:00 - [99] Well in my experience killing snipers is quite easy, all it takes is a covops and a dmg dealer and some small clue as to what you're doing, there's nothing really stopping a covops from tackling the sniper either if people want to really make sure the sniper can't warp to wherever he's aligned, I wonder how many snipers forgot their drones at home, didn't bother fitting a heavy nosf, aren't aligned because it's a hassle when you've got a good spot picked out? Silly people who bother sniping tbh, it's much more fun tanking sentries and being up close, no risk = less fun, and you can't kill battleships either which usually drop the best loot. http://eve.klaki.net/
Darkenral	Posted - 2005.10.25 19:31:00 - [100] EXCELLENT POST KALIXA. That is all so true, however I think it just irritates people that a "Sniper" can leverage game mechanics to the extent they do. Not saying it is good, bad or indiferent. I personally use the scout ahead by a friend method and pay for thir time + give them a ship if they loose theirs. I have NEVER lost a hauler using that method. HOWEVER I have lost ships when I have been in a hurry and just said screw it I should be ok w/instas. Sometimes Instas are not enough and more proactive methods need to be used to get from point a - point b. Making it a huge PITA if your solo. Dark
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.25 19:41:00 - [101] Umm... I'd like to see a covert ops able to do that even given warp times and random warp variation... -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Sir JoJo	Posted - 2005.10.25 20:20:00 - [102] Edited by: Sir JoJo on 25/10/2005 20:21:19 i dont like the trend to call ppl who snipe dumb and ppl whit no balls... I snipe when. 1. my corp mates arent on its hard and really risky to tank sentry alone while killing bs. not that u cant its been done but a decent bs pilot whit decent skill should be able to get u instead of u getting him... 2. sniping dont only mean PPL sitting 150 from sentry and snipe in low sec. u can also snipe when u are badly outnumbered going in 1 vs 20 or 3 vs 30 dont make u dump or a guy whit no ball but the oposite. 3. really when u snipe all u can get is from cruisers and down, and 80% of the ppl that get sniped is afk and then really u cant come whine getting killed being afk cant u?`. 4. use those damn covert ops what do u think they are in game for? to be used on ppl like snipers. again Learn and adapt the game mechanics give u all u need against snipers. Originally by: Eris Discordia As a minmatar I have to say the only good Amarr is a dead Amarr
infused	Posted - 2005.10.25 20:38:00 - [103] Man this thread made me laugh. It is risky sniping... When I snipe in my apoc i'm using all low slots for tracking enhancers and heatsinks. All med slots are boosters and tracking computers... I don't even have a repper fitted, so if I get jumped i'm history. So you see, if you can jump people like this, there pretty defenceless.
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2005.10.25 21:14:00 - [104] Edited by: Kalixa Hihro on 25/10/2005 21:14:02 Originally by: Sir JoJo Edited by: Sir JoJo on 25/10/2005 20:21:19 i dont like the trend to call ppl who snipe dumb and ppl whit no balls... I snipe when. 1. my corp mates arent on its hard and really risky to tank sentry alone while killing bs. not that u cant its been done but a decent bs pilot whit decent skill should be able to get u instead of u getting him... 2. sniping dont only mean PPL sitting 150 from sentry and snipe in low sec. u can also snipe when u are badly outnumbered going in 1 vs 20 or 3 vs 30 dont make u dump or a guy whit no ball but the oposite. 3. really when u snipe all u can get is from cruisers and down, and 80% of the ppl that get sniped is afk and then really u cant come whine getting killed being afk cant u?`. 4. use those damn covert ops what do u think they are in game for? to be used on ppl like snipers. again Learn and adapt the game mechanics give u all u need against snipers. amen to that
Pa1nbringr	Posted - 2005.10.25 22:38:00 - [105] they aren't impossible to get at all, all you do is take a cloaked ship make a bm at desired range give the bm to a raven with scramblers on it and warp the raven in, really easy -
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.25 23:02:00 - [106] Edited by: Derisor on 25/10/2005 23:05:40 Edited by: Derisor on 25/10/2005 23:03:08 Originally by: Kalixa Hihro Originally by: Hoshi step 3: sniper who is pre aligned to safespot at full speed warps away even before the tempest arrive. lol, not the snipers we took out. ingredients for sniper extermination: covert ops fast tackler (Tristan is perfect) with 2 -2 warp scramblers and a mwd tanked dominix with at least 12 heavy drones and 2 scramblers, a signal booster. any mix of additional cruisers, battleships, frigates Dom warps to covert ops, right on top of sniper, upsetting sniper's trajectory and releasing drones, targeting then sending the boys on him, 1 second later frig warps in with MWD and targets sniper, then engages scrambler, and orbits at 1k with mwd engaged. A few seconds later the rest of the gankers are there. Snipers in max damage setup get pwned every time by in your face attack by a decent tanked domi pilot with drones, using this tactic. There is no way they can get away.... and since they are set up for long range max damage, at less than 5 km, they aren't doing squat and pop like a wet paper bag. Covert ops pilot needs to be in precisely the right position. LOL that would be a pretty sleepy sniper to catch them with this. They have to not warp to safe when your uber fleet of 15 people jump in. At any rate if you can get that many people in, you are much better dropping three or 4 super short ranged "blasterthron" type ships on them then trying to mess with jamming. This is assuming that they arent aligned and arent ready to go to safespot; if they are, you will never catch them. However, lets say you are able to pull this off for the moment. It has taken you what? 5 to 10 people and 100 times the cost of hardware of the sniper's ship to take out a single guy in a single setup. He can afford to lose that the one in 1000 times it happens to him. In fact, after the first time, you can bet your marbles he will safe spot or full speed fly towards safe the next time you attempt it. If you dont consider that imballanced then odds are high that you are actually a gank sniper yourself. Oh and the drones are neither here nor there. Or are you under the rediculous assumption that they can scramble or bump the sniper ? Originally by: Pa1nbringr they aren't impossible to get at all, all you do is take a cloaked ship make a bm at desired range give the bm to a raven with scramblers on it and warp the raven in, really easy LOL ... what would you need a BM for? The blind leading the blind truly. Again if he is aligned and at speed you cant scramble him ... PERIOD. Oh and ... my god ... a raven in close range pvp? What ever you are smoking man, its probably illegal. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. If you act like a sheep, expect to be shorn and knitted into a colorful sweater.
Gunsnroses	Posted - 2005.10.25 23:08:00 - [107] Originally by: Sarmaul step 1: covert ops flies in though another gate. sits 15k away from the sniper. step 2: tempest jumps in from the same gate as the covert ops and warps to this covert ops. this should land him on top of the sniper. step 3: the tempest locks the sniper step 4: the tempest activates all 5 -2 scrams he had fitted in his mid slots step 6: the tempest activates 1 large nos, and 6 autocannons with EMP step 7: when the sniper's ship explodes, the tempest activates a large thermal smartbomb (named or faction), popping the sniper's pod in one go. step 8: the tempest and the covert ops pilot share the loot, and go find another sniper. Its very possible to get snipers, but a good one, will simply insta warp, they stay full speed alligned.
Pestillence	Posted - 2005.10.25 23:38:00 - [108] Originally by: Derisor ... Usual trolling post from a forum warrior. All of what you said is rubbish. It's easier to dispute it than do it, thats for sure. But its not impossible. What happened to your pirating attempts btw? Snipers can be killed and are killed often. The tactics spoken about are valid.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.10.25 23:49:00 - [109] Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the term: Counter-Sniper ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Demarcus	Posted - 2005.10.26 00:01:00 - [110] They just need to make it so we can warp to another persons ship in space if they they are visible. If sniper knew that thier targets could warp right in on top of them there would be a lot less snipers. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.10.26 00:06:00 - [111] Yeah...it's annoying to see someone 150 km+ from you, but have no way to reach them. ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.10.26 00:26:00 - [112] Edited by: Ticondrius on 26/10/2005 00:28:16 Originally by: Demarcus They just need to make it so we can warp to another persons ship in space if they they are visible. If sniper knew that thier targets could warp right in on top of them there would be a lot less snipers. That would also permenently place the Blasterthron at the top of the most favored battleship list, not to mention REALLY break combat in general and not just PvP. Get a MWD. Also, the best way to screw up a "running to warp" sniper, is to place a bumper ship in front of him. Best would be a frig or cruiser..something fast..loaded to the gills with scramblers to give your main tackler time to get in and lock him down while you pound the stuffing out of him with your damage dealer. A covert ops frig is VITAL to taking down a sniper. Good luck!
Xtro 2	Posted - 2005.10.26 00:29:00 - [113] Originally by: Jack Tau Originally by: Thomas Torquemada the map is your friend, as is the "always fly in safe zones" option. pirates have way more going against them than for them as it is. That is true, except pirate tend to go for gates that you can't go around.. Like low sec pockets in empire, or that bloody torrinos/ec gate. Their not hard to find then if you want to find them UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Cdr Foxbat	Posted - 2005.10.26 00:51:00 - [114] For me the biggest peeve is not that there are snipers - its how they run and log at even the slightest whiff of disadvantage - only to log on when there is one victim or so in system. One solution for the pesky 0.0 snipers/wcs wh*res would be to make you unable to safely log of in a system with hostile soverignity - so even if you didn't have aggro - it still takes 30mins for your ship to dissapear. Apart from that - WCS having the same effect of sensor dampers would work wonders on the more cautious snipers......... While the 1st change wouldn't realy effect empire - and I think I'll have to down a bottle of vodka to think up an empire based solution, the second would make snipers think twice about personal safety before moving out on a hunt.....
Derisor	Posted - 2005.10.26 08:46:00 - [115] Originally by: Pestillence Originally by: Derisor ... Usual trolling post from a forum warrior. All of what you said is rubbish. It's easier to dispute it than do it, thats for sure. But its not impossible. What happened to your pirating attempts btw? Snipers can be killed and are killed often. The tactics spoken about are valid. I didnt post a reply to a thread that has only a single purpose of insulting someone. You did. If you can refute the points then refute them. Stop trying to imply that insulting me automatically refutes everything. I love that logic .. so funny ... Points are refuted by other counter points, not by personal attacks. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. If you act like a sheep, expect to be shorn and knitted into a colorful sweater.
darth solo	Posted - 2005.10.26 09:32:00 - [116] Originally by: hylleX Give WCS 5% damage decrease per WCS fitted. Then it doesnt affect ppl who are hauling or whatevva. oooo, i like that idea btw.. Or maybe 5% less cap or sumthing.... OR 10% reduction in targetting speed per stab... aye. d solo.
Semkhet	Posted - 2005.10.26 11:40:00 - [117] Are the whiners on this forum aware that complaints like this one, who doesen't address a flaw of game mechanics but instead targets a technically legitime tactic or strategy may only lead to damage the depth of EVE's gameplay ? In a few words, you guys are attempting to incite the dev's to compense your lazyness and lack of creativity. Well sorry, unless your passion is Tic-Tac-Toe, a game should not be based on the lowest common denominator in order to offer challenges. The bottom line is: - You have the right to snipe. - You may protect yourself from snipers. - You may catch snipers - There's no excuse for a noob to warp in 0.4 and less, unless he's color blind, can't read, or never gave a damn about EVE basic knowledge. Nobody obliged you to choose a given activity in EVE. It's your sole choice with losses and benefits. Learn to live with the decisions you make, for the good and the bad.
Nicholai Pestot	Posted - 2005.10.26 12:15:00 - [118] This thread so far seems to have an...interesting mix of views both for and against the current game mechanics as they relate to sniping. To the OP and those against sniping-Snipers are not invunerable.To say so is to go to an unrealistic extream that hurts your,quite valid, point. The basic fact is that a Sniper setup hands disproportionate power into the hands of the one using it.A relativly cookie cutter sniper setup allows VERY effective kill ratios with good profit. Countering such a setup requires teamwork,skills modules and ships infinatly above and beyond that used by the sniper.This is wrong. The suggested solution, that of a built in time-delay for warping (possibly based on the size of the ship), seems to partially solve the problem, but we need to go further than this and look at the cause of sniping. Why do people snipe? Because it provides the most profit and is quickly becoming the only viable way to live as a full time pirate without incredible skill and luck.It has additional benifits when in a 0.0 war and outnumbered of course, but that is neither here nor there as there are other valid methods of warfare in 0.0. At the same time as making sniping less powerfull ALL other forms of lowsec piracy must be made more viable.If the best effort-to-reward balance becomes a different piratical activity (one where those attacked actually have a chance to defend themselves) the problem would soon solve itself and PvP as a whole would be greatly improved. -------------------------------------- I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant
Semkhet	Posted - 2005.10.26 12:51:00 - [119] Edited by: Semkhet on 26/10/2005 12:54:36 Sorry, but I don't get it. For a hauler, a simple Proto Cloak I costs less than 3 mil and will prevent to be blown by a sniper. Provided that... 1) You don't travel AFK. 2) You consider more constructive to get Electronics V and Cloaking I than whining on forums... Now my question. Given that effective solutions exists to avoid or catch snipers, why should EVE be nerfed in a way that principally favorises AFK players ? And then, what next ? A petition to include a scripting languange in EVE so we may just log once a week to check wallets ? Does EVE really need players who consider it unworthy of real time attention, or are unable to invest their focus ? Why the hell do you think that a degressive security status system is implemented in the game ? If I understand correctly, you guys put your ass in less than 0.5, don't prepare for it or did'n get the pertinent skills, and when something happen to you, instead of learning and adapting, you come here and whine ? Great... Seeing whiners still whine after being kindly offered solutions/tactics to their problem just make a little voice tell me: do a list of the worst whiners, use your locator agent, slack a full rack of Anode Tachs on your Apoc, and go give them what they are looking for: Something to whine about on forums... But no. Do you know the joke ? The Masochist to the Sadist: Please please please, harm me ! The Sadist: Hmmmm.... No.
Lygos	Posted - 2005.10.26 12:56:00 - [120] Possible solution: Make BS able to warp to anything, friend or foe at +149km. Make Cruisers able to warp to anything, FoF at +99km. Make Frigates able to warp to anything, FoF at +49km. Problem solved. Newbs vindicated. Cowards return to agent running. Crowds cheer. EVE children become invincible (full of sugar), and EVE fogies become fearless leaders (inebriated). "Everything I love is combustible."
Gretchen Dawntreader	Posted - 2005.10.27 17:14:00 - [121] my post got deleted? Guess opinions aren't allowed.

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OHNOES I WENT INTO LOW SEC AND AM BEING PVPD HELP ME CCP!