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Missiles nerf - I am using a Raven with Torpedos

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Stilgard	Posted - 2005.10.27 06:50:00 - [1] Dear GM Team I am playing for several months with missile nerf and it is still not OK for me. Does the velocity explosion really work ? In fact if web a frigate I make the same damages as if it was not webbed ( I should do more damages on a webbed frigate ). Secondly i dont understand why i can make only 4 dmg to an Inty ( It is extremmly ridiculous ). So why small ships can cumulate resistances + missile nerf ? Why the raven has lost his bonus on small launchers ? Why we make more damages with cruise missiles on frigates than with heavy missiles ? What are you planning to do for missile nerf ? Best regards,
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.27 07:29:00 - [2] explosion velocity works, but a ship must be going like 750 m/s faster than explosion velocity for damage to begin to degrade noticably; the basic function of it seems to be to help mitigate the signature-radius increase for fast ships being threatened by torpedoes. just counter small ships with drones and small weapons like the rest of us. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2005.10.27 08:40:00 - [3] Ill tell you my super secret squirrel method of killing inties in my BS, on missions. Please don't tell anyone else, as it's super super secret! I use dual webbers, a target painter, and medium drones. Sometimes I even shoot them with heavy missiles or torps. On second thoughts, that wasn't so secret after all. _______________________________ cd /usr/everaces/minmatar more\|moaning
Pestillence	Posted - 2005.10.27 15:13:00 - [4] Dear customer who cant adapt Large turrets NEVER hit close in frigs. Your missiles do. Other races battleships do not get bonuses for small or medium turrets either. You have been balanced. Now you need skills and creativity to complete a mission.
Lord Morkoth	Posted - 2005.10.27 17:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Pestillence Dear customer who cant adapt Large turrets NEVER hit close in frigs. Your missiles do. Other races battleships do not get bonuses for small or medium turrets either. You have been balanced. Now you need skills and creativity to complete a mission. pnwt We are The Collective. Resistance is futile.
MWEI	Posted - 2005.10.27 23:26:00 - [6] Another missile whine thread. Dont get me wrong I support, like everyone else, that something to be done about the missiles, but the incredible amount of "new" posts addressing the same issue is just disgusting.
Turin	Posted - 2005.10.27 23:38:00 - [7] wa wa wa wa! I couldnt hit the back button on my browser and was FORCD to read this post! So I guess I need to flame the poster now! Typical reaction from the community. The man DOES need to adapt, but the missle nerf was taken WAY to far IMO. Did it need rebalancing? Sure. Wont hear me deny it. But I think they took it WAY WAY to far. At the very least please un-restrict missles to launchers. So I can load heavy, cruise, small, or whatever I want... INTO MY SIEGE LAUNCHERS. THey should have left the missles load capacity based on one thing and one thing only... Mass.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.10.28 01:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Turin At the very least please un-restrict missles to launchers. So I can load heavy, cruise, small, or whatever I want... INTO MY SIEGE LAUNCHERS. I'd like to be able to fit small and medium ammo into my dual 650 IIs to hit frigs better as well. Cosmic Fusion KB
Shizah	Posted - 2005.10.28 02:21:00 - [9] I got all the new missile skills and trained them, but question that everything is being applied properly and consistently or applied as the skills indicated. There are times when my cruise missiles or torps do little damage to say a cruiser that is at optimal range and yet will do considerable damage to a cruiser up close or way beyond the optimal range. Most of the time I do see some consistency to the point where I develop "a game plan", but then I find occasions that the the damage vs the type ship vs the distance puts the game plan right into the trash can. Also, I am disappointed that the new servers have not cleared up the lag problems when aggroed by a large group of frigates, cruisers and battleships (level 4). In this situation it takes too long for launchers to turn off once the target is dead, takes too long to reload, and too long to warp when necessary. Yes I keep my cache dumped. Yes, the missile nerf was necessary. No, I do not think it was done properly and/or is working properly. Thank you
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.28 02:43:00 - [10] most likely, the varying damage is due to cruisers turning on and off MWDs. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Del Girl	Posted - 2005.10.28 02:47:00 - [11] Honestly it isn't all that much harder npcing after the nerf/boost. I agree it has gone a bit too far but if you do things in the right order it's still almost as mindless as before. I still use the exact same setup as before only with a better, further reaching webber. the classic siege+2 heavy nos, shield tanks etc. The key is to missile spam the battleships first and drop your medium drones on the (webbed) frigs. Combination of drones and torps on cruisers at the end. And if you time you torps to hit when a cruiser has mwd on and is webbed, you will pretty much one volley all. Remember, npcs are predictable and not too bright, they will mwd Also, raven can tank real well at the start to overcome the initial damage rather easily, while you drop the heavy hitters.
Dermont	Posted - 2005.10.28 18:55:00 - [12] Dude. It¦s so simple. Just use Heavy Drones. And small guns. And if you can¦t kill everything with that... Well then you need to work on your fighting skills and your ingame skills. I reccomed using small t2 lasers or evern t2 medium lasers, if you need cap, use projectiles. Simple man.
Stilgard	Posted - 2005.10.28 21:08:00 - [13] The topic is how good is the missile nerf and changes. Personnaly i think that GM team made a too much big nerf Secondly i think that the raven as nerfed 2 times on the launchers bonuses but also on the capacity to hit a target. I recommend to GM team to make special implants that are increasing velocity explosion etc ...
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.28 21:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Stilgard The topic is how good is the missile nerf and changes. Personnaly i think that GM team made a too much big nerf Secondly i think that the raven as nerfed 2 times on the launchers bonuses but also on the capacity to hit a target. I recommend to GM team to make special implants that are increasing velocity explosion etc ... There's no special implants to lower gun sig radius - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Illminatis	Posted - 2005.10.28 21:53:00 - [15] Originally by: Pestillence Dear customer who cant adapt Large turrets NEVER hit close in frigs. Your missiles do. Other races battleships do not get bonuses for small or medium turrets either. You have been balanced. Now you need skills and creativity to complete a mission. Signed =)
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.10.28 22:48:00 - [16] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Stilgard The topic is how good is the missile nerf and changes. Personnaly i think that GM team made a too much big nerf Secondly i think that the raven as nerfed 2 times on the launchers bonuses but also on the capacity to hit a target. I recommend to GM team to make special implants that are increasing velocity explosion etc ... There's no special implants to lower gun sig radius No, but there is implants to increase tracking, damage and rate of fire. Both 3% ones and 5% ones, and there is no implants at all that affect launchers and missiles. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Stilgard	Posted - 2005.10.30 04:59:00 - [17] Yes some implants exist for turrets but not for missiles
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.30 06:49:00 - [18] more implants are always in the pipe. mining and missiles are for sure IIRC. dunno eta. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
The Wizz117	Posted - 2005.10.30 10:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Pestillence Dear customer who cant adapt Large turrets NEVER hit close in frigs. Your missiles do. Other races battleships do not get bonuses for small or medium turrets either. You have been balanced. Now you need skills and creativity to complete a mission. o rly? missiles do 0.1 damage on short range frigs and 0.7 if they are far away. does that seems to be fair? and maybe there is a reason there are alot of "whining" treahts of missiles?
Mon Maures	Posted - 2005.10.30 11:27:00 - [20] Well if you look at the missile situ when EVE launched, a Kestral could load cruise missiles into standard launchers - not balanced....at all. Then lets look at the skill tree for missiles pre Kali compared to gunnery skills pre kali. To be effective with missiles pre kali u needed maybe 5-6 skills, missile operation and then the missile types, and you still have the added advantage of hitting everything with maximum dammage regardless of what ship you were targetting how fast it was moving etc, with no misses. To be effective with gunnery pre kali (and now) u needed maybe 10 -15 skills and even then you still have to fit the right guns and ammo to hit the right target and you are then victim of you own tracking and skill at staying in range. This was not balanced at all and gave ppl a very easy and quick path (comparatively) to become "uber", train up a Raven, cruisers and torps and you could kill just about anything. The current missile system is more balanced but still needs alot of work, they may have moved missiles into an area ppl dont like but if you fit your ship correctly for the targets you are facing then u might notice that missiles are actually better. Missile users are now where gunnery players have always been, carefully choosing their setup to meet the targets they will face, no more of this one size fits all nonsense. It totally goes against the way EVE is setup. And b4 i get flammed i used to be a missile boat driver myself doing lvl3 and 4 missions in a ferox, when they nerfed missiles i had to totally rethink the way i played, I now have a lovely Ferox gunship (which is their real purpose anyway) The fortunes of war, i'll tell you plain, is a wooden leg or a golden chain.
mimik	Posted - 2005.10.30 11:28:00 - [21] Originally by: The Wizz117 Originally by: Pestillence Dear customer who cant adapt Large turrets NEVER hit close in frigs. Your missiles do. Other races battleships do not get bonuses for small or medium turrets either. You have been balanced. Now you need skills and creativity to complete a mission. o rly? missiles do 0.1 damage on short range frigs and 0.7 if they are far away. does that seems to be fair? and maybe there is a reason there are alot of "whining" treahts of missiles? heres a little clue for u. turret users dont try shooting close range frigs with their large guns as doing so is a waste of ammo when u miss all the time. if ur torps or cruise are only doing 0.1 damage then dont use torps or cruise on frigs. turret users normally use their drones for this purpose. try doing that sometime.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.30 14:46:00 - [22] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 30/10/2005 14:46:57 Originally by: The Wizz117 Originally by: Pestillence Dear customer who cant adapt Large turrets NEVER hit close in frigs. Your missiles do. Other races battleships do not get bonuses for small or medium turrets either. You have been balanced. Now you need skills and creativity to complete a mission. o rly? missiles do 0.1 damage on short range frigs and 0.7 if they are far away. does that seems to be fair? and maybe there is a reason there are alot of "whining" treahts of missiles? My megabeams shooting an interceptor at 70km: Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss Your torpedoes hitting that interceptor: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 I prefer the torpedoes... my turrets will only hit if the inty turns on its MWD... in which case your torpedoes will hit great too. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.10.30 16:54:00 - [23] "I prefer the torpedoes... my turrets will only hit if the inty turns on its MWD... in which case your torpedoes will hit great too." Torpedoes don't hit MWD'ing inty at all. Can easily outrun them, and have them trail all behind looking silly as they try to catch up. (that's torps shot from Raven, by character with maxed out skills. i.e. as fast as they get) Even if they did hit, the speed of MWD'ing inty exceeds the explosion velocity of torpedo by so much the damage is reduced to something like ~5 hp top. And well... you say you prefer the torpedo, and yet use turrets ("my turret" vs "your torpedo") ... why do you use something you don't prefer, in the end? with torpedoes being so preferable and all? o.O
The Wizz117	Posted - 2005.10.30 20:07:00 - [24] i think after all these missile topcis, ccp should seriouse change the missiles some how. the missiles are just over nerfed and ccp knows it.
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.10.30 23:46:00 - [25] Originally by: The Wizz117 i think after all these missile topcis, ccp should seriouse change the missiles some how. the missiles are just over nerfed and ccp knows it. The fact that a lot of people lost their i-win button and are upset about it doesnt mean they where overnerfed It simply means they where unable to find a new i-win button. ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Cirale	Posted - 2005.10.31 00:59:00 - [26] seriously people, get over it, missiles are fine, the new skills make them even better than they were before. the fittings are balanced now, you have to use the right launcher for the right missile (how common sense is that anyways....) and vary your load out for what your are facing, like every other weapon type. suck it up and adapt, its a dead horse already, and every time someone beats it, the stink just gets worse. if anything peeps should start whinning about the "one size pwns all" that drones have become.
Caldorous	Posted - 2005.10.31 01:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: The Wizz117 i think after all these missile topcis, ccp should seriouse change the missiles some how. the missiles are just over nerfed and ccp knows it. The fact that a lot of people lost their i-win button and are upset about it doesnt mean they where overnerfed It simply means they where unable to find a new i-win button. Isnt the i-win button soposed to appear after some skills are trained and some fight strategies learned? ----------------------------- 2005.03.13 01:11:29combatYour 350mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar), wrecking for 0.0 damage.
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2005.10.31 01:21:00 - [28] While turrets are improved by mwd sig radius enlargement, range, webifers and active piloting, missiles only get a small improvement within their static damage limitations. And it¦s not ok that a light missile shooting a mwd rifter mk2 gets a 45% damage reduction (due to speed penalty) while a small turret gets a 5.25 times better tracking (due to sig enlargement). Missiles are overnerfed. But I admit, it¦s getting old.^^
Brannor McThife	Posted - 2005.10.31 07:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Cirale seriously people, get over it, missiles are fine, the new skills make them even better than they were before. the fittings are balanced now, you have to use the right launcher for the right missile I'm a Raven pilot, and I agree. Missiles work almost completely as intended...just one teeny weeny little issue (read: bug). Stationary/slow moving objects. When I can shoot a Storage Silo (holds 8,500,000 m^3 of items - read the description) with my heavy missile for more damage than a torpedo, then there is something wrong. When I can shoot a pilot-less shuttle for 4 times the damage with my light missiles of that of my heavy/cruise/torpedoes... something is wrong. Make a sliding graph of sig radius to speed, so that any ship not moving, has a sig radius of 1000 or something...yet it slides down quickly to their true radius based on speed. If you go at 80%+ speed, then your sig radius is your "true" sig. Going slower makes your radius bigger. -G
Calio	Posted - 2005.10.31 15:37:00 - [30] Originally by: Cirale seriously people, get over it, missiles are fine, the new skills make them even better than they were before. What world are you living in? Do you even use missles, or are you just parroting the conventional wisdom (promulgated by people who have all switched to guns, no doubt) without any first hand experience? Tell me where the improvement lies (other than torps vs. BS's). I fly a Raven, have all missle skills up to Lev 4 or 5 (and BS to 5 also). I have adapted to the changes well enough (use T2 painter, webber, drones as needed, etc.) and can solo lev 4 missions well enough. But, the only improvement I've seen is torps against BS's, and that is minor (6 volleys to take out a 300k BS instead of 7). It takes 2-3 volleys of cruises to take down an inty (assuming it hits its mwd - 6-10 if it doesn't), the same 3-4 as before the nerf to take out a 100k cruiser (3 instead of the old 1.5 volleys for a 45k cruiser), 2 to take out a hauler (instead of 1), and so on. "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)

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