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The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:26:00 -
[1]
With the latest patch introducing secure cargo container people have seen fit to place these secure containers at gates so as to use these bookmarks to by pass blockades. Before this was not an issue as we could destroy these containers meaning only the user could place them, use the bookmark unless he sold the bookmark on. Now using a bookmark to do this has been classed as an exploit (will post the link when I find it), though no-one is really bothered about it, its inbuild into the game mechnics. But NOW, people can drop these containers and because of the invunrability - players can warp in, bookmark the secure container and then warp out (using the lousy 10 second invunrability bug), then warp on and carry on. Unless this problem is
1. Resolved by having people stop this pratice
2. It becomes possible to destroy these containers.
Then the following will start to happen at any gate I blockade.
For every one container dropped that is secure - I will add another 19 of my own, each will be used as a personal bookmark for myself, each will increase the lag as you warp in. IF CCP does not close down this exploit in the next patch, this proccess will start. That along with the fact I will not waste my ammo destroying stray containers, bodys or drones will cause more and more lag. I will not allow there to be one rule for pirates and another for blockade runners.
Flame away!!!
m0ovie links |
MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:33:00 -
[2]
Go m0o !!
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:34:00 -
[3]
This is a personal expression, and does not in anyway include the thoughts of any of our corp members or allys.
m0ovie links |
Stront3h
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:38:00 -
[4]
Tbh I tend to agree with you. I keep seeing these secure containers all over the place and wondering why theyre there. The only reason I can think of for using secure containers is when mining to stop ore thieves, other than that anyone care to add?
I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to be destroyed, keeping the same penalty as there is currently.
---------------------------------------------
If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. |
Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:40:00 -
[5]
Your arguement that using secure containers as bookmarks to by-pass blockades is an exploit is baseless until you provide some hard evidence. Post the link that CCP classifies this as an exploit and then you have a point. Otherwise it just sounds like your another pirate whinning because someone has out smarted you and figured away around your silly blockade. 
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:42:00 -
[6]
For some reason I find this really funny.
I think players are always going to find "creative" ways of getting around things - as soon as they do however, its logged with the Dev team who then try and unpick it all. Its like a vicious circle. I think pirates need to be given other ways of catching their prey other than camping gates.
The answer to the 64,000 isk question is: How?
--------------------------------------------
Dead
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Riddari
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:42:00 -
[7]
1. Why do people use containers to bookmark? Just hit the "ADD BOOKMARK" button, you don't need a friggin container
2. The Reverend is either trolling or incredibly enough not thinking like I do. Exploit?
¼©¼
a history |
Serge
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:42:00 -
[8]
I agree - these secure containers are a joke as they can be handled right now to block, bookmark and create lag.
Out with them or give them a timer!
***********************************************
... "we suddenly have a good 2 dozen Chicken Littles running about proclaiming tha |
The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:44:00 -
[9]
One last note, how are you all enjoying the laggy server atm, ever notice whenever CCP does a database sweep in order to try and speed up the server, it has the oppiste effect? With all these containers around the database will just get slower and sloower and slooower etc. Anyway back to work, will look forward to the flames when I get back.
m0ovie links |
Psyco Groupie
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:46:00 -
[10]
awww shame, you cant get easy kills .. poor you
* ******* Crazy |
Seer
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:46:00 -
[11]
What does it matter?
I aint even see a secure container yet but no gate is ever blocked 24/7 - the wise use the unblocked time to set their bookmark and share it with all members of their corp and any buddies they feel like .... so big deal?
Anyone who doesnt already have a BM for every dodgy system out there must be mad! Although I do think its crazy a secure container is indestructable - sure it should take a beating to blow one otherwise temptetous ore thieves would just blow one they couldnt open outta spite. But indestructable? How can a f**kin cargo can take more to blow than a battleship?
---------------------------------------------------
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Wierdo
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:46:00 -
[12]
"For every one container dropped that is secure - I will add another 19 of my own, each will be used as a personal bookmark for myself, each will increase the lag as you warp in."
Are you admitting that the dropping of canisters at gates causes lag? |
Ghenghiz
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:47:00 -
[13]
I don't understand why people would want to drop a container to create a bookmark when you can just create a bookmark withOUT any container...
Ghenghiz |
Fixit
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:49:00 -
[14]
Hmmmm well standing up and saying I don't like something and in the same voice saying you will deliberately exploit the game to the point of making it unplayable for others, just because it is affecting your profits?
I hope anyone you pod this way reports it, and they ban your sorry ass.
If you want something discussed seriously or have a good point to make, which this is, then do it the proper way.
Reoprt it, post it in the patch forum or whatever.
Just stop being a hypocrite. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Now put your dummy back in and go post seriously without the childish threats.
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Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:49:00 -
[15]
I hardly think that these few extra containers floating around in space is going to cause the entire server to be laggy. I think the lag problems are due to a different issue all together.
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
BSOD
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:54:00 -
[16]
 Quote:
1. Why do people use containers to bookmark? Just hit the "ADD BOOKMARK" button, you don't need a friggin container
2. The Reverend is either trolling or incredibly enough not thinking like I do. Exploit?
Rev's point seems to be that bookmarks are normally not copyable.
Oh wait... Rev is wrong, you CAN copy bookmarks without being near the original bookmark.
----------------
Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.08.06 12:57:00 -
[17]
Fixit, Amen brother...thank you for keeping it real! My exact thoughts on this subject.
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:01:00 -
[18]
Exploit because?
I am assuming you mean because you cannot destroy them?
And why do you need a container to set a bookmark? just travel from planet 1, 20 k past gate, and set mark.
If you use the lag exploit, you will get your account revoked from what I have seen.
Secure containers should dissapear after server reboot though imo, or space could be well n truly full o junk :)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
SuicideBob
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:01:00 -
[19]
If m0o doesn't like it, it must be a good thing for the rest of us.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:06:00 -
[20]
Okay...
So when non-pirates find a way to beat the system, such as leaving an unbreakable/everlasting can at ideal bookamrking range so that everyone can warp in, BM, warp back, then instajump. Then there are no complaints from the 'good guys'.
But.. when a pirate finds a way to beat the system, such as what Molly has been up to in the empire lately, cries go up to have them banned/nerfed/etc.?
Double standards are a bad thing.
Also, regarding secure containers. I don't see any reason to keep these in. Greedy idiots still won't use them (because they don't have the interior dimensions of 3 bestowers....), and still complain just as much as they did before they were introduced.
The only things I've seen these used for are graffiti, and litter.
.
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Alkad Mzu
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:20:00 -
[21]
Quote:
But.. when a pirate finds a way to beat the system, such as what Molly has been up to in the empire lately, cries go up to have them banned/nerfed/etc.?
drunkenmaster, you know, when you guys "find a way to beat the system", it usually implies more dead people :-)
However, wen we (the gullable good guys and carebears) find such a way, it means we might just stay alive a little longer.
alive > dead, conclusion: we're right to exploit, you're wrong to whine.
________________________________________________
Head of Public Relations, Fountain Alliance |
Noobious
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:20:00 -
[22]
*hands rev a tissue to wipe those tears away.
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Alkad Mzu
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:22:00 -
[23]
Oh, and backing up a completely valid point of concern with lame threats is childish, The Reverend. I Pity you.
________________________________________________
Head of Public Relations, Fountain Alliance |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:23:00 -
[24]
Much fairer comments Drunken, but still doesnt address the point as to why this is an exploit, when the same can be done by marking empty space as can be achived by marking a container in same said empty space. Anyone that actually bothers to do this, is just wasting the money on a secure container. And therefore deosnt really seem like an exploit in any way.
Maybe I missed something though tbh.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Darth Maul
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:26:00 -
[25]
Quote:
The only things I've seen these used for are graffiti, and litter.
Actually I use them to great effect for transporting high level skill packs and BP's through a blockade. You may blow the cheap speedy frigate I'm in - but at least when you log off I can come back and get my loot. 
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:29:00 -
[26]
well - not that its a vote or a democracy but I'm with The Rev on this purely on "principle".
I don't give a monkies about past actions or paralell guilt (or even that there are less troublesome ways to do it or get round blockades) - it IS being used as a way to bypass intended game mechanics (blockades) by the easy creation of "insta-jump bookmarks" (not intended).
Seen it done, heard it discussed and no idea whatsoever what to do about it.
No help to anybody - just another voice in the wilderness.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:46:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tharrn on 06/08/2003 13:47:36
Quote:
The answer to the 64,000 isk question is: How?
Warp-trail-trackers, specialised high-tech high power equipment (blackmarket *cough cough* stuff) usable to render jumpgates inoperative for a short period of time (remember Freelancer and the way pirates blocked the tradelanes there?). Maybe in the form of some kind of space-equipment (a small jamming platform like those planned mobile refineries that should be destructible).
It would put the process of disabling a jumpgate into the hands of the players rather than the game mechanics as it is planned for the next patch now. Sure, important tradelanes may be completely blocked. Cool with me. Get of your butts and smack that expensive, hard to get jammer up.
As you are at it: an option to choose the distance you'd like to arrive at when dropping out of warp would be great. Would avoid those insta-deaths and allow for fleet deployment and tactical combat rather than 'warp in first and you are dead'. Make it 150, 50, 20km +/- a few (random), and we are set, no?
Can I have those 64k ISK now? Can I have your stuff in general? ;)
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:50:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Okay...
So when non-pirates find a way to beat the system, such as leaving an unbreakable/everlasting can at ideal bookamrking range so that everyone can warp in, BM, warp back, then instajump. Then there are no complaints from the 'good guys'.
But.. when a pirate finds a way to beat the system, such as what Molly has been up to in the empire lately, cries go up to have them banned/nerfed/etc.?
Double standards are a bad thing.
Also, regarding secure containers. I don't see any reason to keep these in. Greedy idiots still won't use them (because they don't have the interior dimensions of 3 bestowers....), and still complain just as much as they did before they were introduced.
The only things I've seen these used for are graffiti, and litter.
There is other side of that coin: When pirates had 100's of cargo containers lying around after killed NPC's it was an accident, as much as it is now that people "accidently" jettisoned the container, and "unfortunately" forgot the password. So it's all fair, again. 
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:06:00 -
[29]
Uhm... shouldn't it be fun to just
a.) drop ONE secure container that is at useless coordinates
b.) use a MWD to shamelessly bump 'waymarkers' a few kilometers away
if you are a pirate? :P
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:10:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Viceroy on 06/08/2003 14:15:37
I agree with The Reverand on this matter, this is an exploit. Whats the point of setting up a blockade when people can just drop a secure can an pass?
Bookmarking the middle of nowhere and containers should be removed.
-
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:24:00 -
[31]
I think the Secure Containers should be desrtuctable but not because of MOOs reason, he is kinda right. But Now pirates can use the old exploit put containers everywhere and lag a jumpgate again.
All They have to do is get 2 or 3 indies full of containers dump then all around the gate. Even the bookmark thing wouldn't work because by the time the player warping in finishes loading he is already past the gate.
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:26:00 -
[32]
Also the gate campers can't pick up the container but they could ram it and move it
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:48:00 -
[33]
here's an idea, I could go over to FD-MLJ while the campers are asleep, and dump about a hundred secure cans around the gate.
When they come to camp the gate, there will be hundreds of cans littered around causing lag (supposedly). And **** off to the other side of the universe, or just log out.
Now here's the trick:
would *I* be exploiting if I left them there, and the campers had to leave the gate after multiple cries of 'exploit'?
Or would *they* be exploiting if they ignored the cans, and carried on pirating?
In short: players (*all* players) should be able to get the skills/tools to remove/open these cans. Even if it takes some time.
or give them less HP. Enough to make it a ridiculously difficult thing to try in a noobship, very hard in a frigate, hard in a cruiser, not too bad in a BS.
ie. if someone came along to your mining op in a cruiser, it would take them 5 minutes or so to destroy the can, but you'd have enough time to go to base, get your indy , and scoop them before it got destroyed.
Of course, If 5 cruisers came in, you're stuffed, but that should always be the case anyway. 
.
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:52:00 -
[34]
Poetry Drunken... Nicely put.
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Main
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Posted - 2003.08.06 14:59:00 -
[35]
I would have to agree with the reverend here, why do all these people really feel the need to exploit every part of the game just to get the ever-so-slightest edge on everyone else.
And how exactly do you roleplay the part about a cargo container being able to take more punishment then a fully kitted out battleship?
Main
Everlasting Vendetta Veteran
Member of the Stain Alliance |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:08:00 -
[36]
Quote:
I would have to agree with the reverend here, why do all these people really feel the need to exploit every part of the game just to get the ever-so-slightest edge on everyone else.
And how exactly do you roleplay the part about a cargo container being able to take more punishment then a fully kitted out battleship?
Main, they take more damage than a thousand battleships  
I think they're made from the same stuff as Volvos.
.
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:09:00 -
[37]
Finding myself saying this a little bit too often, but I agree with Drunken 100%, well written post.
In no way does this mean I would like to have his ugly ass children though of course.
Added to the hard a sl**** cannisters, if someone shoots at a cannister you have ejected, in that system, you and your corp are able to shoot them without concorde repercussion for say 1 hour.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:12:00 -
[38]
"Two there always are a master and a apprentice"
The question is which one is he.
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Elusion Salvage
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:21:00 -
[39]
So.. if CCP does not remove this "exploid" you will start to use this "exploid". As you call it an "exploid" and probly going to use it you give CCP a free hand in banning your account...
Also a way to get rid of pirates i can say 
To the fact:
You honest believe that treathning in such a way will result in a faster aprouch of the problem or even more importand anyone taking it serious to read a post as soon a treath is been made?
I have moderated rather few boards, i have done "bug collecting" on same ammount of games and i have been in contact with a few dev. groups to solve problems that interfeared gameplay (Not yet been bothered to helpout eve.). Yet any of such posts only ended up on ignore.
People seem to forget that its people on the other side of the line, who not like to be treathned by any person or shouted at. I for one would not exept it from anyone regardless of the issue.
Conclusion:
Talking works bether then shouting or treathning.
Greets,
Elusion Salvage.
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Quantum Gopher
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:25:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Quantum Gopher on 06/08/2003 15:34:30
I believe that the person who jettisons a secure container is listed as the owner when the can's info is viewed.
This would mean that the person who has action taken against them for exploiting (causing lag) should be the one who dropped them since it is a deliberate act.
Destroying ships (player or npc) that generate loot cans are an involuntary consequence of game mechanics caused by the ship's destruction. The one responsible for the destruction of said ship should be accountable for the quantities of cans floating in space. Your kill, your loot. If you leave it with the express purpost to cause lag, then that should be considered "the exploit".
This latter type of can induced lag is often difficult to prove, especially with the rules currently in effect. Smart tactics would be to keep a battle group together and not break formation etc. to clean up one's mess. Perhaps a shorter expiration timer on loot cans (non-jettisoned) should be considered. Maybe a new Loot or Salvage Container could be generated instead with a shortened timer.
Edit: Of course blowing up industrial ships carrying secure containers is a whole other ballgame. The cans would be legitimately owned but involuntarily left in space. I believe a way to distinguish jettisoned cans from cans resulting in a ship's destruction should be implemented. More work for such a small aspect of EVE.
Q. Gopher
__________
I know...it's only ROCK and roll, but I like it!! |
Deunan
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:30:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Deunan on 06/08/2003 15:33:09
I'm witting at 5am. Not.
The solution to the problem is to not let people bookmark cargo containers. Period. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Delete all existing "co-ordinate" bookmarks.
No more "deep space" hiding spots, no more "instant jump" warp points...
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:33:00 -
[42]
I think if someone did it it would be hard to track. All they have to do is scoop them back up and move along. Thats why those containers are so dumb to have been added like that. You can't scoop up jettasoned containers. Therefore you take away the evadence
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:34:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Kalhan on 06/08/2003 15:35:09
Oopps Double post
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:45:00 -
[44]
laf, so now its important to stop exploits.
Lets see abusing an exploit is doing somthing that will give you an unfair advantage, ie doing somthing that was not intended by the developers.
I agree its most probably not intended but... is it realy an exploit? Mo0 corp, you stated you were looking for a link claiming it to be an exploit, have you fond it or are you just angry some smart ppl have figgured out a way to break your blocades?
Not that I am very bothered about this as I have bookmarks on the frequent blocade gates I use already, is using such bookmarks considered exploiting? If it is then I am guilty.
I doubt it will ever be however.
In short you want to nerf somthing?
you already have speed, firepower, webbifiers, warpjammers, and whatnot to keep uss industrials down, you realy need better odds?
It may just be your gravy gatecamping days are over, you might actually have to hunt people :)
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:47:00 -
[45]
How about if I bought a fleet of cheap indies, and loaded each one with small secure cans, and cargo boosts, so I go really, really slow, and try to run m0o blockades all night? It will have the same effect, but cost me more.
You can't then tell me I have to go back and pick up those cans. That would be suicide
so, now I'm ruled out of the equation, only the campers can be exploiting. But they didn't put the cans there. So is it really exploiting?
Also, I'm still convinced it is the ships, rather than the cans, that cause all the lag.
.
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slothe
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:58:00 -
[46]
you a lawyer reverend?
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
http://www.khainestar.com/eve |
WhiteDwarf
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Posted - 2003.08.06 16:00:00 -
[47]
Edited by: WhiteDwarf on 06/08/2003 16:00:55
You poor gate camping baby, I feel so sorry for you Reverend
"Trust No One" |
Mark A
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Posted - 2003.08.06 16:03:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Mark A on 06/08/2003 16:04:14
Like non-biodegradable litter, any object that can be added into space and potentially not taken away again is clearly going to cause a problem eventually. This is why loot cans expire, so whoever figured that out must have been on holiday when secure containers were implemented.
BTW I haven't read the whole thread, but the reason bookmarking a can by a gate is easier than making your own is you only have to see it, not be at that point, so you can easily do so during the lock immunity period even if the gate is being camped at the time.
Regular BMs are fair enough IMHO - they are laborious to make, require a degree of foresight, are a pain to copy, can't be evemailed, and can afford you a certain "home" advantage. So fine.
____________________________________
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frstkor13
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Posted - 2003.08.06 16:05:00 -
[49]
awww. the reverand was doing ok until he said he was going to intentionally use exploits.
it seemed like the ****ers in m0o were actually trying to play this game for a while again, but then this dip**** has a tantrum and cries he will exploit harder than other dolts.
so after admition of exploitation, rev, go ahead. then if ccp finally bans your dumb ass they can just link you to this thread where you say WAH WAH I WILL EXPLOIT HARDER THAN YOU. WAH WAH.
derelict.
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.08.06 16:14:00 -
[50]
So we are back to the same old problem, the game lags when you jump into a field of debris, be it pirate dumped cans, npc cans, secure cargo cans or even ships.
If the game did not lag when you come in the obvious solution for the camper would be to place decoy containers, this is not possible due to it having been used too much already (and may be considered an exploit).
In short, once the game is fixed so it can handle it then nooo problem.
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.08.06 16:55:00 -
[51]
Solution: around a jumpgate, cans last 10mins
Or, if the cans are transportable....
I hereby offer my services to any corp, with my indy I will clear the way of ALL cans for the modicum price of 10K isk each
and THIS is adaptation :)
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
----------------------------------------------- |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.08.06 16:58:00 -
[52]
Edited by: StealthNet on 06/08/2003 16:58:46
Dropping secure containers in gates is an exploit.
activating any modules in warp but shield boosters / tacs is an exploit.
but...
Flying around in empire space with a huge neg sec rating is not an exploit.
Attacking people in empire space without getting the cops after you is not an exploit.
having a -9.9 sec rating and avoiding cops is not an exploit.
killing people without getting security hits is not an exploit.
fitting weapon upgrades and removing them without updating the stats is not an exploit.
dropping countless containers with 1 round of ammo inside is not an exploit.
using the "grid update" to avoid being shot is not an exploit.
using certain modules to ctd any1 in range is not an exploit.
Im sick of this.
_______________________________________________
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The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.08.06 17:17:00 -
[53]
Cargo containers don't lag me (even hundreds of them). Sometimes a lot of ships will on coming out of warp.
CTD is another story...
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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ga'ia
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Posted - 2003.08.06 17:31:00 -
[54]
Quote:
With the latest patch introducing secure cargo container people have seen fit to place these secure containers at gates so as to use these bookmarks to by pass blockades. Before this was not an issue as we could destroy these containers meaning only the user could place them, use the bookmark unless he sold the bookmark on. Now using a bookmark to do this has been classed as an exploit (will post the link when I find it), though no-one is really bothered about it, its inbuild into the game mechnics. But NOW, people can drop these containers and because of the invunrability - players can warp in, bookmark the secure container and then warp out (using the lousy 10 second invunrability bug), then warp on and carry on. Unless this problem is
1. Resolved by having people stop this pratice
2. It becomes possible to destroy these containers.
Then the following will start to happen at any gate I blockade.
For every one container dropped that is secure - I will add another 19 of my own, each will be used as a personal bookmark for myself, each will increase the lag as you warp in. IF CCP does not close down this exploit in the next patch, this proccess will start. That along with the fact I will not waste my ammo destroying stray containers, bodys or drones will cause more and more lag. I will not allow there to be one rule for pirates and another for blockade runners.
Flame away!!!
 Fact: One can bookmark any location of space which him/her can reach without any kind of static or jettizoned object. Conclusion: Using secure cargo containers to bypass a blockade is NOT an exploit!
Secure containers was introduced to solve the problem with ore thives in empirespace.
"(using the lousy 10 second invunrability bug)" Fact: This is not a bug at all! It¦s a vital part of gameplay to PREVENT pirates to camp stations in 0.0-0.4, prevent jump-to-system-spawns and all its likes! If you don¦t remember it¦s pretty much m0o¦s 'own' "bug" that you created, don¦t you remember camping Mara/Passari and killing n00bs in velators when CONCORD wasn¦t 'there' yet?
"1. Resolved by having people stop this pratice". Fact: Players will not be able to jump gates when there have been shooting/killing (dunno?) going on by the gates with the upcoming patch. How exactly this is going to work we¦ll just have to w8 and see when its time for patch.
"For every one container dropped that is secure - I will add another 19 of my own, each will be used as a personal bookmark for myself, each will increase the lag as you warp in. IF CCP does not close down this exploit in the next patch, this proccess will start. That along with the fact I will not waste my ammo destroying stray containers, bodys or drones will cause more and more lag. I will not allow there to be one rule for pirates and another for blockade runners." Fact: If you mean to drop 19 of your own containers at the current gate which you saw this secure container by and ignoring to blow up/pick up bodys/loot at the same gate just to increase the lagg, you¦re seriously dumb. This if something is EXPLOITING. The very resaon to why ordinary containers had a timer applyed, was becasue you were exploiting the server-to-client synch lagg issues. There are more than enought proof of this and you can keep denying this. Further to threath CCP to take this actions if _your_ will isn¦t obeyed must be the most foolish thing I¦ve ever heard. You¦re biting the hand that feeds you. You are really not in a position of making demands.
This post does once again prove the FACT that there have never been a intellectual post ever posted by a m0o member. I don¦t condemned you for being pirates which has indeed added alot of risks and pointed out many issues in the game. But this is certainly not one of them. I wish I¦ll still be around when this trend is broken. Use your head, not your ego-****.
__________________________________________________________ |
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 17:36:00 -
[55]
ooooo pretty post..
oh, Give Secure containers a hp and or timer. problem solved.
|
Molly
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 17:39:00 -
[56]
I don't know what Jump Gates and especially the way to them is good for when there is an otion to make all of them instant jump.
Remove them from game and add the option to teleport to anywhere you wish to.
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 17:42:00 -
[57]
Lets collect every player in eve in one system and have a last man standing match. lol 4,000 people in local chat.
|
BSOD
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 17:46:00 -
[58]
Quote:
Okay...
So when non-pirates find a way to beat the system, such as leaving an unbreakable/everlasting can at ideal bookamrking range so that everyone can warp in, BM, warp back, then instajump. Then there are no complaints from the 'good guys'.
But.. when a pirate finds a way to beat the system, such as what Molly has been up to in the empire lately, cries go up to have them banned/nerfed/etc.?
Double standards are a bad thing.
Also, regarding secure containers. I don't see any reason to keep these in. Greedy idiots still won't use them (because they don't have the interior dimensions of 3 bestowers....), and still complain just as much as they did before they were introduced.
The only things I've seen these used for are graffiti, and litter.
You're talking about two entirely different issues.
Can bookmarking is not an exploit. And I don't care who is using it. Pirates and non-pirates alike are equally welcome to use bookmarks.
On the other hand - I agree with you that secure containers in their current form are in no way beneficial to the game.
a) They bring back the canlag exploit (which CCP has yet to fix properly, the jettison timer is a workaround for an underlying flaw in the game's network protocol that causes problems even in non-exploit situations such as 20v20 battles.)
b) They clutter up space in general
c) They're utterly fscking useless. "more cargo than jettison containers" my @#$*#@) - Nice lie Hilmar.
----------------
Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 17:51:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Stealth said stuff.
dropping secure containers is as much an exploit as dropping 1 item of ammo. I don't personally see it as an exploit either way.
flying around in empire space with -9.9 is no different to positive sec people entering Guristas space. Except the guristas don't travel in 8's and have battleships. Also, minmatars don't get attacked in amarr space. This is just a missing feature, and will come along with faction actions.
killing people in the empire and not getting a hit is the same as me podding a neg sec player outside all empire space in a 0.0 and losing 2.0 sec. Just a bug. But it seems to be working both ways.
And the grid bug *is* an exploit. Officially. And a pretty low way to fight. Also, very difficult, I would imagine.
And the CTD-by-module thing is just a badass bug. There is no way to tell whose machine will CTD in this case, it's as likely to be the instigators than the victims. My own team mates have caused me to CTD, unintentinally. I may have caused theirs occasionally, I really couldn't say. I just hope to jebus it gets fixed soon. It's an evening-spoiler.
With negative (pirate-type) exploits, you get a lot of publicity, because it makes someone, somewhere mad, and then we get 5 identical posts, each with their own little flamewars. You never really hear much about the positive exploits, until they get fixed.
I don't remember *anyone* complaining about the surg strike skill bug. People said they wanted pvp to last longer. But nobody suggested lowering the damage. They were perfectly happy to gut a 40k NPC cruiser in 6-8 shots.
The same again with the 'no ammo range' bug* it was fine until it was taken away. Personally, I found it made combat more engaging, and bought a greater element of skill to the arena. Although I did shed a tear when I put my AM M into cold storage.
*not really a bug, more a 'missing feature'
btw, I include myself in the 'nobody complains' bit. I was upset to lose the surg strike bonus, but until I heard about it on the forum, and heard they were removing it, I didn't actually realise it was a bug, I thought I was just getting a decent return on my training
I get a strange feeling I have gone on too long here, and I will now stop typing. And maybe get a nice frosty beverage.
PS. I promise you, none of this post is directed at anyone.
.
|
Jorev
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 18:03:00 -
[60]
What an inflated sense of importance some people have.
You're not in a position to demand anything pipsqueak.
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 18:23:00 -
[61]
Quote:
ga'ia said: ...ego-****.
You missed his main point, I think.
I'll try and clear it up here:
I go to the gate the poster is at, and I see him there. I immediately warp away to the nearest object I can click on. While doing this I am still protected by the invul [lag shield] As my ship moves to warp, I have plenty of time to bookmark the container, and name it '<system X> gate X IJ' As soon as I drop out of warp, I instantly warp to my new bookmark, and insta-warp out.
There is no counter for this. The can cannot be removed. ever. 100% protection through that gate. You don't even need an MWD/ECM/anything, in fact.
I have no problem with people using bookmarks to get through gates, it shows intelligence and planning. but this method mentioned is pretty weak.
.
|
Karif
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 18:39:00 -
[62]
I say remove the ability to Bookmark cans.
Not only does permit cheap actions like this, it also allows warping to deep space to hide, and it really REALLY cheezes me off when I go to open a cargo can only to ACCIDENTALLY click on the wrong option and get greeted by that damn modal "WHAT DO YOU WANT TO CALL THIS BOOKMARK" window.
===============================
Deception + Information + Skill |
ga'ia
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 18:49:00 -
[63]
drunkenmaster, talking to me now? If so, I perfectly understood the post and you can see my reply of it on the previous page.
Point: The strategy is completely obtainable without use of the secure containers, therefor he is only trying to find a scapegoat for his frustrations that people are not fools that go straight into the blockade, but finds way around it.
The ego-**** part is that m0o tends to make everything about themselves, therefor ego. Then the fact that I¦ve yet to experienced a intellectual post by a m0o member, the saying "Thinking with your **** instead of your head" is most suitable, therefor i combined these to ego-****. No affense.
__________________________________________________________ |
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 19:30:00 -
[64]
Ok, lets turn the tables, in the information of the game it is stated you should be allowed to TRADE bookmarks.
This naturaly meens you will get even more problems as the local chanel will flare with people wanting to buy blocade running bookmarks, no cargo canisters no fuzz and to bad pirates every ship and its exaust pipe will warp in within 10k of the gate.
Its inevidable, learn to pirate in some other way.
tis just what is what and I still havent seen any link to this so called place where it states it is an exploit, fess up rev.
|
la'Rei
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 19:40:00 -
[65]
Fester - That wont work.
Stations, are highly secure, and basicaly pointless to try and camp at, due to the turrets.
So no stations.
Belts.
I DONT WANT TO KILL MINERS. I want to kill YOU, the traders! You know.. indys with Refined ORE, not un-refined ore.
-rei
_________________________
Trolling is bad. Please dont do it.
-rei |
StealthNet
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 19:54:00 -
[66]
I don't need to say much.
But a bug becomes an exploit when it is used by a player to have certain advantages that he is not supposed to have. This is a definition that won't change no matter what you say.
And I forgot this one:
Issuing local buy orders to keep players from selling to a certain demand.
It IS an exploit when a player does that to keep that demand for himself only.
_______________________________________________
|
BSOD
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 20:13:00 -
[67]
Quote:
Quote:
Stealth said stuff.
And the grid bug *is* an exploit. Officially. And a pretty low way to fight. Also, very difficult, I would imagine.
VERY difficult to exploit, if exploitable at all, considering that (at least in my experience) if you have a target locked and you cross a grid boundary, that target unlocks when it disappears. Very annoying when hunting an NPC convoy and the convoy and half your corpmates disappear.
Remember, the grid goes both ways. You can't see them and they can't see you. There's no way to tell whether or not someone is on the other side of a boundary intentionally or unintentionally. IIRC, the only time a grid boundary actually caused someone to gain/lose an advantage in PvP was when FA warped into a gate, and the gate was not visible from the warpin point. Only half of the FA fleet moved forward to cross the boundary, the rest stayed back clueless. Was m0o exploiting? No, considering that they were near a space-based object. Was FA exploiting? They dropped out of a warp point set by the game.
I love how a few days ago, someone from m0o said, "OMG FA IS EXPLOITING THE GRID! I HAVE A SCREENSHOT OF THEM AND A STATION ON TEH SCANNER BUT YUO CAN'T SEE THEM OR TEH STATION!" - Of course, an FA member could just as easily have taken a screenshot of m0o "exploiting" in that instance. And clearly if you're staying in the same grid zone as a station you're NOT exploiting... Plenty of valid reasons for being near a major celestial.
I've seen both sides accuse the other of exploiting, but I've seen no real proof other than bad luck with VERY badly placed grid boundaries. (They shouldn't be anywhere near a station or stargate.)
----------------
Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
Gan Howorth
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 20:23:00 -
[68]
I'm confused.
Even with or without a can if you bookmark your current location you will simply come out of warp anything up to 20km further back from your bookmark. Hence why even bookmarking the jumpgate is a waste of time.
As l understand it, setting up a bookmark that gives insta-jump requires you to fly past the gate and make a bookmark 10+ km (20 to be sure) beyond the gate so when you use it you actually turn up on top of the gate.
How is this achieved by this "bookmarking as soon as you come out of warp and warping away again" stategy??
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 20:24:00 -
[69]
I've seen how the boxes work, and how ridiculously hard you'd have work just to attack someone that you could beat in a straight fight.
I found some thieves in venal the other day and they were mining off the charts, took me half an hour to track them down with the scanner.
But I was saying that the devs have explicitly stated that this is an exploit, rather than the others which mostly were brushed off as 'low tactics'/etc.
ga'ia, I wasn't having a go at you. ego ***** is the funniest thing I read for a while. Guess I should have smilied it.
.
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 20:40:00 -
[70]
Quote:
I'm confused.
Even with or without a can if you bookmark your current location you will simply come out of warp anything up to 20km further back from your bookmark. Hence why even bookmarking the jumpgate is a waste of time.
As l understand it, setting up a bookmark that gives insta-jump requires you to fly past the gate and make a bookmark 10+ km (20 to be sure) beyond the gate so when you use it you actually turn up on top of the gate.
How is this achieved by this "bookmarking as soon as you come out of warp and warping away again" stategy??
someone dumped a secure can 20 km beyond the gate already. you just bookmark it as you warp in, warp out and warp back to your new bookmark. All of this can be done while invincible.
This can cannot be destroyed. thus, anyone can get a free insta-jump BM.
.
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 20:43:00 -
[71]
Either they get rid of invulnerability times or secure containers.
Pirate whine versus carebear whine.
Guess who will win?
You can't get rid of invulnerability times AND prevent MWD from being activated mid-warp but neither can you get rid of secure containers because miners rely on them (I think).
Keep invulnerability, prevent MWD being activated mid-warp, find a new solution to ore thievery, and all will be happy in Evesville.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Gan Howorth
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 20:49:00 -
[72]
Got it, cheers DM.
|
HP Lovecraft
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 21:32:00 -
[73]
I love it when the cow noise boyz (aka moo) whine, especially about an exploit.
Actually I have the heart of an Exploiter and a PKer---I keep them on my desk in a jar. |
Cptn Stardust
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 21:41:00 -
[74]
Yes, there is a use for secure containers.
Well two actually.
I use them whilst mining, and Ore Thiefs around, in same system, they stole stuff from folks that dropped standard unsecure containers, but of course left me alone
When needing to transfer something of high value, you put that into secure container, secure container goes in cargo hold.
Lose ship to crash, pirates..whatever. They don't get your stuff.
The Rev has a point, and it's in human nature to try to find a way to exploit just about anything.
If some pirates found an exploit that enabled them to kill more easily, would they really be so honest as to report that to CCP right away?
When you find a potential exploit, just tell the devs about it.
I've done a little test with a small secure container, yep it's still sitting there in space after one and half weeks.
I do agree that they need a 'timer' on them |
Ono Baroux
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 21:51:00 -
[75]
It's just funny to see M0o, a corp built by exploits, whine over this or anything like it...
==============Hadean Drive Yards==============
2nd LT. Topher "Ono" Baroux, [email protected]
Logistic Operations Group -- Research and Development Operative |
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 21:57:00 -
[76]
I still cant understand how droping a beacon to home in on is a bug or bug abuse.
Well lets call it an exploit, I cant see that ither however as we are suposed to be able to trade in bookmarks the point becomes moot (no pun intended) at best.
As soon as a gate becomes camped some entrepreneur will go on the local channel and start selling his gate camp run by bookmarks for cash, all the pirates can do is get in on the sales.
Well actually selling bookmarks might be a good way of leading players astray, camp a gate, kill a fwe ships and then start selling false coordinates...
In any case I cant see why using bookmarks to increase your chance of breaking a blocade can be considered exploiting the rules, what comes next, no bookmarking at preferable range from npc clone points? at roids? at stations?...
|
Belle Adonna
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 22:09:00 -
[77]
WOOOOHOOOO.....a first post.
I would first like to say, Reverend, my bookmarks already make me autojump. And no, I didnt use a secure container, I made them myself, and im handing them out to everyone that I can. Yes, they are immenently copyable, and transferrable. (jettison them in a container).
second, with out the ten seconds invulnerability *bug*, this game would be unplayable. Its entirely too easy for you in your scorp to target and fire on me in less than 5 seconds without it. Its not a bug, its on purpose. I wouldnt have been playing this wonderful game this long without it, too many pirates like yourself camping gates. I would have lost way too many ships. Dont like it? Too bad. Regarding the secured container in the area you like to hunt PC's? Again, too damn bad. Its probably from someone with the foresight to put everything valuable into a secured container while traveling through the system. After you killed em, guess what, all you got is a secured container you cant touch. Id rather lose the use of that stuff then let you have it. I have never, and will never pay mOO anything. These Containers just make it possible to do that. Deal.
To the person that said make it impossible to bookmark containers, bite me. Its the only way i have found to bookmark someplace that doesnt have a celestial body already there. If you know a way, please explain it to me. Id love to hear it.
With out the ability to bookmark SPECIFIC locations, this game will become unplayable, for me and any other person that comes into the game after i did. Normally warping to a gate over 30 KM away is ridiculous, but Ill deal with it.
my two Isk.
|
agrizla
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 22:13:00 -
[78]
Edited by: agrizla on 06/08/2003 22:16:43
Quote:
It's just funny to see M0o, a corp built by exploits, whine over this or anything like it...
As you don't appear to be able to read and digest what you read, The Reverend posted :
This is a personal expression, and does not in anyway include the thoughts of any of our corp members or allys.
I get really tired with all this "lets bash the pirate corps" crap that goes on. So you lost a ship sometime to m0o. Big deal! We've all lost ships (or most of us have). I've lost 4 cruisers and god know how many drones in the last week (mainly to CTD's) but I'm not moaning about it or bashing the PC pirates who got 2 of them because they are just doing what they do. Hell CCP ought to be paying m0o as they were about the only thing in the game during June that kept people awake
Give it a rest eh?
NB - I am not a pirate but given all the bloody whining that goes on about them I'm thinking damn hard about becoming one.
Edit - I have been moaning about the CTD's and I will continue to do so - mainly because of the crap that Polaris/GM's came out with that it wasn't the server at fault. Not because I've lost items - a conservative estimate of the items I've lost to bugs would be in excess of 75 mill.
|
Jeff Jones
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 22:14:00 -
[79]
Or just make it so that secure containers are destructable however if someone attacks a secure container then the container's owner (and maybe current gang?) can return fire.
Since jettisoning stuff into a secure container isn't the same as an insecured one it would seem right ot allow the owner to protect them.
|
agrizla
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 22:21:00 -
[80]
Edited by: agrizla on 06/08/2003 22:24:08
Oh and to get back on topic :
The answer is simple. Give secure containers a power source - something must keep them secure after all? If you don't put the can into a hanger after say 2 days in space then the canister becomes a normal one and hence has the "disintegrate timer" that normal cans have.
Edit - I don't agree it's any sort of exploit BTW. If you want to setup a way for non-pirates to instajump without making any personal gain then I can't see how that is an exploit. I can see the database creaking and then collapsing in a heap if the cans stay there forever though....
|
Maud Dib
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 22:22:00 -
[81]
Drunk I am what most would consider a "good guy" and I agree with you 100% it is not acceptable to have things not be the same for both sides. Exploits are no good for anybody and should be remove post haste.
|
Karif
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 22:48:00 -
[82]
"To the person that said make it impossible to bookmark containers, bite me. Its the only way i have found to bookmark someplace that doesnt have a celestial body already there. If you know a way, please explain it to me. Id love to hear it."
You can bookmark anything but mobile objects (NPCs, PCs) currently. Thus, every location that isn't empty space will have an object that is a valid warp anchor.
At least as far as I've found. Abanonded stations, debris, and other POI can be Bookmarked (once you are close to some), individual asteroids, stations, planets, moons, jumpgates, spawn containers, and just about anything else worth warping to. Of course, I might have missed something and you can tell me where I can find something worth going to that doesn't have an object that can be bookmarked.
/shrug
===============================
Deception + Information + Skill |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 23:36:00 -
[83]
Server reset needs to kill cargo containers. There is no reason for those things to stay adrift in space 24/7. They will simply inflate the database and slow the servers down.
They are simply being abused.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Tauren
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 23:39:00 -
[84]
Well then I should get my bookmarks up and going through your space then.
Follow the white rabbits |
Vacuole
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 23:39:00 -
[85]
Hmm, just curious about this exploit business.
Someone was complaining about the containers being used to bypass blockades, and wondered how they were supposed to maintain blockades with the 'exploit' available.
Who said that blockading gates was some kind of protected right?
That's what I don't get.
I mean, if ya can do it, fine.. but to actually complain because someone figured-out a way to beat the campers at their own game?
Hmm...
|
Foomanshoe
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 23:45:00 -
[86]
Well Rev, while exploiters suck, exploiting yourself doesnt make things better. And going out and saying you will exploit kinda ruins the arguement that you didnt know any better and is likely to get you a one way account banning.
We all have to put up with exploiters, its better to inform CCP and wait for a fix then to start exploiting yourself.
_______________________________________________
|
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2003.08.06 23:49:00 -
[87]
Firstly Im still waiting for the official handdown from a dev,
Is it an exploit to warp in, bookmark a secure container during imunity and warp back to the bookmark?
If it is then simply make it impossible to make bookmarks when the warpengines are down.
But lets face it, this is not the issue is it, the issue seems to be the fact that players have found a way to get past gate blocades and its ****ing some PC pirates off.
I would be lying if I said I felt sorry for you, no more easy pickings for you.
You wanted us not to complain and try to figure out a way to beat you at the gate game, well someone figgured out a way, great, so why are you whining?
You now have a new problem, so deal with it.
Lastly I still would like for someone to explain how leaving one secure container at a gate becomes an exploit.
Another Idea comes to mind, ask for tractor beams, a hig power slot that can move smaller items a distance away, you still cant scoop the container or shoot it but by pulling it away from the gate some 20km would render it useless for its intended purpouse.
|
Entity
|
Posted - 2003.08.07 01:51:00 -
[88]
The infinite lifetime of secure cans WILL eventually become a large problem, just like the noob items cluttering up in peoples assets.
Stuff that comes and never goes -> ever growing database.
 |
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2003.08.07 02:11:00 -
[89]
Yes, over time secure cans will cause a problem however making them destroyable is not the answer, I like the timer idea, when the container is ejected a timer starts, if a person with the correct pass does not scoop it up within a set time the cans become killable.
A simple coulor code should do nicely to show wich type it is as could having the can name framed by for example *'s.
Also a can having been killable for a duration should selfdestruct cleaning up space.
|
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2003.08.07 03:36:00 -
[90]
Quote:
So when non-pirates find a way to beat the system, such as leaving an unbreakable/everlasting can at ideal bookamrking range so that everyone can warp in, BM, warp back, then instajump. Then there are no complaints from the 'good guys'.
Well I consider myself one of the good people and all I can say is that I see this as an exploit and something must be done about this asap.
Mai's Idealog |
Othnark
|
Posted - 2003.08.07 07:40:00 -
[91]
Quote:
I still cant understand how droping a beacon to home in on is a bug or bug abuse.
Well lets call it an exploit, I cant see that ither however as we are suposed to be able to trade in bookmarks the point becomes moot (no pun intended) at best.
......
In any case I cant see why using bookmarks to increase your chance of breaking a blocade can be considered exploiting the rules, what comes next, no bookmarking at preferable range from npc clone points? at roids? at stations?...
Fester et All,
It is simple. To exploit is to take advantage of game mechanics in a blatant way that was not intended. There is no bug here of course - you are supposed to have invulnerability at warp, and secure containers are supposed to be indestructable (at present).
BUT, the purpose of secure containers is not to be jettisoned behind stargates so that people can take advantage of (exploit) their 10 second invulnerabuility in order to make a bookmark at a certain point in space. This is a blatant misuse of containers.
If you want a bookmark somewhere in space, thats fine, thats not an exploit. Go there and make it. Then trade it all you want. But this method is just a specialized abuse of 2 factors combined.
-Othnark
|
Riddari
|
Posted - 2003.08.07 10:45:00 -
[92]
Quote:
To the person that said make it impossible to bookmark containers, bite me. Its the only way i have found to bookmark someplace that doesnt have a celestial body already there. If you know a way, please explain it to me. Id love to hear it.
Open up your people and places window... check out the PLACES tab.. look at the bottom of window.. "ADD BOOKMARK" !
This bookmarks a place in space, for some weird reason you get out of warp 20km from it so if you wanna bookmark for an instajump you go 15km beyond the stargate, add bookmark and voila.. an instadock bookmark.
¼©¼
a history |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2003.08.07 10:57:00 -
[93]
Quote:
Hmm, just curious about this exploit business.
Someone was complaining about the containers being used to bypass blockades, and wondered how they were supposed to maintain blockades with the 'exploit' available.
Who said that blockading gates was some kind of protected right?
That's what I don't get.
I mean, if ya can do it, fine.. but to actually complain because someone figured-out a way to beat the campers at their own game?
Hmm...
In Eve your ship is either, going through a jumpgate, docking/undocking by a station, at an asteroid field mining/killing npcs, or at a planet/landmark (which generally serves no point).
Obviously you can't locate or find people mid-warp, nor is it easy to locate someone in a system with 20 asteroid belts.
The only reasonable place for pirates to do their business is at jump gates, it is the best place to hunt other players.
Now you say being a pirate is bad, and all pirates should go burn in hell, or whatever but look.. pirating is a profession in Eve (it's on the freaking box, and in the trailers), it is certainly not the most lucrative, but probably the most fun of them all.
With bookmarks allowing you to easily bypass blockades how does a pirate be a pirate? He doesn't. There is no risk in travel, and Eve becomes even more boring, yay....
Question is does CCP want pirates in their game? I'm starting to think they do not. If and when CCP makes pirates extinct Eve will become a very very, uh, stale game.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.08.07 11:12:00 -
[94]
Ok, I have one half shot atempt to explain why its to be considered an exploit, thanx Othnark but I dont agree. And remember I have a right to disagree, dosnt neccesarily make me right but I have the right to.
So in short to sumarise again, the problem is people use their invulnerability to create the bookmark, its so simple it boggles my mind.
solution:
1: Make it so you cant make bookmarks while invulnerable, a fair thing to do in my opinion, this would meen you as a pirate has a chance to lock while the ninvulnirability has dropped.
2: make it take 1 sec to scan and create the bookmark, if you turn your jump engines on again too soon it messes up the scan and the bookmark scan fails.
Pirates will still have to be very quick to manage to lock the player down but as much as I agree pirates are a part of the game (tho eve atm is overpopulated with them) I do not think it should be easy and there should be ways to get past them without paying tribute or whatever.
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CT BadIronTree
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Posted - 2003.08.07 12:09:00 -
[95]
hahahahahhahhahaahhahaha
moo have problems :)
no one play with them....
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
go to a other system to play.....
so many good spots...
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Colossus Technologies
The first and oldest corp in eve!
BadIronTree Head of Production
CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003:
Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic mode.
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playing (or beta testing)since Sat, 2 Nov 2002 16:06 (beta 5)
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The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.08.07 12:25:00 -
[96]
LOL - is this thing still going???
The reasoning behind this post is simple, I did a similar one to this last week but without the threat to exploit back, it got read by about 200 people with a few replys and then drifted off as all post do in the end. By adding a simple reason for people to flame me this time around, its got over 500% more viewing and loads of replys
So mission achieved, my point has been made and read by loads more people, thanks for the comments guys - keep it up 
m0ovie links |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.08.07 12:34:00 -
[97]
Just like the church... devious and manipulative.
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Demangel
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Posted - 2003.08.07 13:07:00 -
[98]
The Rev is preaching some truth for a change.
Just because some pirate groups have been bending rules doesn't mean non agressive players deserve the same rights...
Two wrongs don't make a right guys, remember that one?
I say squish all exploits, or just open the god damn game to cheating in every way possible, cheat codes and all, and be done with it.
This isn't an exploit? No proof? That didn't matter when it was Can lag, why does it matter now?
I agreed with the can lag fixing with any fix that would work, jet timer while annoying did seem to work didn't it?
I see it this way, if some guy has the brains and balls to make non secure cans at jump gates when m0o isn't around, bookmark em and sell em to travelers or whatever to make getting away from our bovine "friends" easier, I say ROCK ON YOU ENTERPRISING DUDE!
But using secure cans means the gate can be BM's by anyone and everyone, basically doing some real damage to gate camping scumbags, who IMHO have a right to play as scumbags since day one of this games inception. And lets not get started on thier right to pirate...
Anyway all I'm looking for is fair play here people... Not favoritism. And yes I do consider these secure cans exploitable.
The best solution is to make them destructable without spending what? 2 million HP on them in ammo cap and time?
To be honest cargo cans are the most unrealistic aspect of this game in many ways LOL.
Some have infinate holding capacity just about, but cost nothing and get killed in 2 or three shots. You can fit a whole asteroid belt worth of ore in one tiny little object... but it doesn't even expand in size!
then you have some that cost a few grand that hold less but can be locked and cannot be destroyed?
So why can't it do both? why can't it be infinately roomy inside and lockable and indestructable?
Hell just the indestructable bit bugs me... more than anything else...
I can understand if it would take 20 shots or more to destroy it... but whatever outragious number it is now is retarded.
I want a ship made out of those secure cargo containers... If you can make me that, then I'll stop *****ing
god it's wierd arguing on the side of m0o like this... somebody feel my temperature and pulse, I think I must be sick!
Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you
Demangel > Dude... I would call..
Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet.
Galaxion > Just a bit.
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