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Castor II
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
97
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:36:00 -
[61] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I agree. It's no longer a player driven universe.
DMC
Talk about over-reacting
God you people are terrible sometimes |
Jonas Staal
Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus
4
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Posted - 2013.06.06 11:01:00 -
[62] - Quote
Tea Leaves wrote:OH NOES. Well guess what, now nobody else can use T3's in your precious 4/10 farm either. This levels the playing field for everyone in high sec. If you don't like. Feel free to biomass yourself and give somebody your stuff.
People will use HACs instead of T3's, so the speed of completing sites won't lower. If someone can pass you in a T3, he will pass you in a HAC. This means new players will be at a disadvantage for longer because HACs are more skill intensive!
This update removed simply made making good money in high sec more annoying. A "vet" will still be faster than you, and dual boxing explorers now also have the advantage in high sec.
To make it clear, this is no problem for me personally, so it's not a personal little whine.. I have a cov ops alt, and a main that can fly HACs.
It's pretty simple imo:
High sec: Courrier trading: High skills -> More cargo room -> More profit. Manufacturing: High skills -> Better margin -> More profit. Mission running: High skills -> Faster completion times -> More profit.
Combat exploration: High skills -> Good combat + scan ship -> More profit ==> Turned into: High skills -> Cov ops + HAC -> More profit, but alot more annoying than before
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
790
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Posted - 2013.06.06 11:52:00 -
[63] - Quote
Derdrom Utida wrote:It's as if you're implying CCP hates your freedom and ingenuity and seeks to ruin your fun.
All they did was not allow a beastly monster of a scanning/clearing combo ship to enter lowbie sites.
I'm not implying whatever, just note that T3's in 3 and 4 sites steamroll on them like typia says but actually Machariels and vindicators at 3k+dps don't steamroll on lvl4's.
CCP buff Machariels and Vindicators plz *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14599
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:05:00 -
[64] - Quote
Jonas Staal wrote:People will use HACs instead of T3's, so the speed of completing sites won't lower. If someone can pass you in a T3, he will pass you in a HAC. This means new players will be at a disadvantage for longer because HACs are more skill intensive! Not really, no.
Both require cruiser V and a smattering of basic support skills that you want to IV or V anyway no matter what ship you fly.
HAC: 10 ranks to V, 3 ranks to IV. SC: 10 ranks to V, 2 ranks to III.
The difference amounts to a rounding error. If you can fly a T3 competently, switching to HAC is a matter of injecting the HAC skillbook and waiting a few minutes. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jonas Staal
Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus
4
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:37:00 -
[65] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jonas Staal wrote:People will use HACs instead of T3's, so the speed of completing sites won't lower. If someone can pass you in a T3, he will pass you in a HAC. This means new players will be at a disadvantage for longer because HACs are more skill intensive! Not really, no. Both require cruiser V and a smattering of basic support skills that you want to IV or V anyway no matter what ship you fly. HAC: 10 ranks to V, 3 ranks to IV. SC: 10 ranks to V, 2 ranks to III. The difference amounts to a rounding error. If you can fly a T3 competently, switching to HAC is a matter of injecting the HAC skillbook and waiting a few minutes.
So what you are saying is that a T3 fitted for PvE is no better than a HAC fitted for PvE? |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
497
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:41:00 -
[66] - Quote
Andski wrote:I do love the fact that you have dudes running highsec exploration sites in T3s to rob newbies of their income. Then when their T3s get suicide ganked for their shiny mods they'll whine on the forums about how suicide gankers are destroying the game and driving new players away
I didn't think of this at all... you make a very good point! Regarding your comment on the spawn mechanics of these sites and 'blitzing' them: you are totally right about that. I don't think it's a bad thing to be able to blitz in principle though. The point mainly was that those flying T3's have a machine capable of running far better content (low/null anoms, Sleeper sites), but are scared to do so because -gasp- they will have to leave hisec. Instead they replay level 1 to farm the boss over and over. I mean... it just looks pathetic and risk-averse to me. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2044
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
Castor II wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:I agree. It's no longer a player driven universe.
DMC Talk about over-reacting God you people are terrible sometimes all the damn time
I'm on a fixing spree!
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baltec1
Bat Country
6850
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jonas Staal wrote:
So what you are saying is that a T3 fitted for PvE is no better than a HAC fitted for PvE?
No Tippia is saying what the skill difference is... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14599
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
Jonas Staal wrote:So what you are saying is that a T3 fitted for PvE is no better than a HAC fitted for PvE? Count the number of times I use the word GÇ£fitGÇ¥ and strawman again. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2045
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:T3 were total overkill for those sites. Most T3's didn't even run them, they just followed the triggers to make the good lootsies spawn ASAP and GTFO. I never understood why anyone capable of flying a T3 would stick around in hisec to run these sites anyway. Take your run-of-the-mill MMO and imagine a max-level character grinding mobs in the tutorial area in hopes for a rare spawn. That is what you have been doing, that is what has been taken away from you. And you cry like this? HTFU...
That's...perfect. Well said.
Tech3 ships should have never been allowed in such sites to begin with, the crying now is simply from people who got spoiled by CCPs initial mistake. It's "high sec level 5s" all over again lol.
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Julius Priscus
114
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:46:00 -
[71] - Quote
Jonas Staal wrote:Tippia wrote:Jonas Staal wrote:People will use HACs instead of T3's, so the speed of completing sites won't lower. If someone can pass you in a T3, he will pass you in a HAC. This means new players will be at a disadvantage for longer because HACs are more skill intensive! Not really, no. Both require cruiser V and a smattering of basic support skills that you want to IV or V anyway no matter what ship you fly. HAC: 10 ranks to V, 3 ranks to IV. SC: 10 ranks to V, 2 ranks to III. The difference amounts to a rounding error. If you can fly a T3 competently, switching to HAC is a matter of injecting the HAC skillbook and waiting a few minutes. So what you are saying is that a T3 fitted for PvE is no better than a HAC fitted for PvE?
back in the day people would ***** that hac's in 3/10 were over kill. imo T3 in 3/10 were murderous.
just jump into a hac and do the high sec site. if ya gotta brign a good scanning buddie along. once he has scanned the site down he goes back for a 2nd hac and you both do em in hacs.
-»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
Jonas Staal
Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus
4
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:46:00 -
[72] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jonas Staal wrote:
So what you are saying is that a T3 fitted for PvE is no better than a HAC fitted for PvE?
No Tippia is saying what the skill difference is...
Yes well I thought it was clear that I don't mean the skill difference in training time (since it's nearly the same, as Tippia showed, but the fact that you need better skills to do it in a HAC. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14600
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:49:00 -
[73] - Quote
Jonas Staal wrote:Yes well I thought it was clear that I don't mean the skill difference in training time Jonas Staal wrote:This means new players will be at a disadvantage for longer because HACs are more skill intensive! Really? Really?
Quote:but the fact that you need better skills to do it in a HAC No, you don't. You need base skills that are the same, as showed, and support skills that are the same, since it's the same type and size of ship. The difference in GÇ£skill intensityGÇ¥ is zero. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Julius Priscus
114
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:52:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jonas Staal wrote:baltec1 wrote:Jonas Staal wrote:
So what you are saying is that a T3 fitted for PvE is no better than a HAC fitted for PvE?
No Tippia is saying what the skill difference is... Yes well I thought it was clear that I don't mean the skill difference in training time (since it's nearly the same, as Tippia showed, but the fact that you need better skills to do it in a HAC.
no.. all T3 required you to have base skills at 5.
hac's don't.
you can be in a hac in about the same time it takes to skill up for a t3 -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2045
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 12:58:00 -
[75] - Quote
With all the tears on the forum, who needs suicide ganking? |
baltec1
Bat Country
6850
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Posted - 2013.06.06 13:02:00 -
[76] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:With all the tears on the forum, who needs suicide ganking?
I think we will still go ahead to see how muc land we can flood. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2046
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:06:00 -
[77] - Quote
[quote=Jonas Staal] This means new players will be at a disadvantage for longer because HACs are more skill intensive!
This is the EVE version of "Think of the children!".
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Doddy
Dark-Rising
852
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Posted - 2013.06.06 13:21:00 -
[78] - Quote
[quote=Sergeant Acht Scultz][quote=Haulin Gneiss][quote=Copper Rei] Now tell us all about exploration and how you tank/DPS your 10/10 with your lonely Tengu fitted for exploration. You can't ! So in the end are those OP or not OP?
quote]
Well maybe YOU can't. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
373
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Posted - 2013.06.06 15:22:00 -
[79] - Quote
A corp mate and I were fooling around with exploration. We found a system that had a 4/10 site.
Entered the first one, cleared the first room, and hit the gate. Shortly after landing a tengu decloaks, aggroes the whole room, flies full speed at the loot ship, pops it and warps off in less than 45s. Repeat for 3 more sites in the same afternoon with several different tengu pilots.
That's why. DirectX 11, it's not rocket appliance! |
Julius Priscus
114
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Posted - 2013.06.06 15:27:00 -
[80] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:A corp mate and I were fooling around with exploration. We found a system that had a 4/10 site.
Entered the first one, cleared the first room, and hit the gate. Shortly after landing a tengu decloaks, aggroes the whole room, flies full speed at the loot ship, pops it and warps off in less than 45s. Repeat for 3 more sites in the same afternoon with several different tengu pilots.
That's why.
when I used to do the serpentise drug warehouse back in the day. In the final room i would get full room agro sit next to who ever was in the last room with me then log out... then log right back in. that pilot would then have agro. usually they would warp off.
but once word got around what I was doing some would log off as well and try to get me to get agro.
basically... all is fair in complex's and grieving :P -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
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Zircon Dasher
208
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Posted - 2013.06.06 15:58:00 -
[81] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:A corp mate and I were fooling around with exploration. We found a system that had a 4/10 site.
Entered the first one, cleared the first room, and hit the gate. Shortly after landing a tengu decloaks, aggroes the whole room, flies full speed at the loot ship, pops it and warps off in less than 45s. Repeat for 3 more sites in the same afternoon with several different tengu pilots.
That's why.
So what you are saying is that someone took the time to bypass the first room and then cloak up just so he could jump out of the bushes and clear the site out from under noobs.....the same site he could have finished god-knows how much sooner if he had just done the site.
Tell me- do you happen to whine a lot in local when someone "steals" your site? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Jonas Staal
Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus
4
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Posted - 2013.06.06 16:08:00 -
[82] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:A corp mate and I were fooling around with exploration. We found a system that had a 4/10 site.
Entered the first one, cleared the first room, and hit the gate. Shortly after landing a tengu decloaks, aggroes the whole room, flies full speed at the loot ship, pops it and warps off in less than 45s. Repeat for 3 more sites in the same afternoon with several different tengu pilots.
That's why.
That's only because the reward is insane. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
102
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:39:00 -
[83] - Quote
For all of those saying you should be able to play the game your way - NO! You should not. This is a sandbox MMO and anyone can interfere with your gameplay. You don't like that? Then go play something else. |
Royal Executioner Shazih
Viziam Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:24:00 -
[84] - Quote
Please make sure you post here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3139076#post3139076 |
Copper Rei
Copper Corp
38
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Posted - 2013.06.07 00:22:00 -
[85] - Quote
'WHY I LIKED MY T3'
Not because it was OP or could steamroll anything.
I liked it because of the fitting options. Sure you can fit them to be incredible ships for specific purposes but they were also able to be fit for 'multi' purpose. As with any multi-purpose tool, the more you try to make it do the worse it was for specific tasks. For actual exploration this was actually a benefit.
I have been trying to find a replacement for my T3 and have not come close. The Gnosis is nearly there but they made it a BC and it is slow with a huge sig rad. The bonuses on my particular fit were crazy nice at first glance but when you really look close it isn't as overkill as you may think.
10% probe scan strength (weak compared to the Gnosis and same as cov ops) +10 Virus strength to both analyzers (not available on other ships) 99% reduction for probe launchers (like a cov ops but without cloak bonuses too) 4% to all armor resists (4% isn't much overall since my fit had dual reps and not a lot of low slots) 5% to CAP capacity (made dual reps possible with t2 cap rigs it was stable) 7.5% to med projectile ROF (not as high as other ships and I was fitting probe launcher and salvager so only 4 weapons) 10% to falloff (great for autocannons but not so much for arty so this helped fit for shorter range) 5% to max velocity 6H w/6 Turrets (but only 4 after fitting salvager and probe launcher) 5M (only 3 after fitting codebreaker and analyzer) 5L with my skills it was base armor of 92%EM,73%TH,37%KIN,25%EXP which is perfect for bloods and sansha Cap 1908GJ/271s Targeting range of 62.5 ( which only helped drones since I had to fit autocannons) base speed of 285ms (typical cruiser speed not super speedy) 50 m3 drone bay power grid 1375 CPU 418.8
A nice jack of all trades and master of none. Like me.
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Copper Rei
Copper Corp
38
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Posted - 2013.06.07 00:27:00 -
[86] - Quote
That's only because the reward is insane.[/quote]
The best item you could get from a 4/10 in blood space was a c-type med armor repper that sold for 160 mil.
Maybe a energized c-type adaptive but that depended on the markets for which was worth more at the time.
Hardly insane.
Step into l-sec and run a 7/10 and you can get a nice 1 bil drop.
The rewards from escelations can easily be far greater than any 4/10 DED.
Incursions pay better. Militia pays better.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7972
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Posted - 2013.06.07 19:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:I agree. It's no longer a player driven universe.
DMC Of course it's not when the thing we're discussing here is PVE PVE has never been player driven last I checked. The only close exception being live events such as the sansha raids....but those were hosted by CCP soooo..... Wrong, doesn't matter if it's PvP or PvE. The whole point is that CCP creates the content and supplies the tools which we (the playerbase) decide how we're going to use it.
The fact that T3's are no longer allowed by CCP actually validates my original statement.
DMC |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14648
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Posted - 2013.06.07 19:43:00 -
[88] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Wrong, doesn't matter if it's PvP or PvE. The whole point is that CCP creates the content and supplies the tools which we (the playerbase) decide how we're going to use it. GǪand part of that content GÇö such as DED sites GÇö come supplied with limitations as to which tools are supposed to be used when doing them. Shifting these limitations around to match changes done to the game does not alter the level of player-driven:ness.
Quote:The fact that T3's are no longer allowed by CCP actually validates my original statement. Not really, no, since such limitations have always been there and since your original statement made it sound like this represented some kind of design change.
The design is the same as ever; it's just a balancing adjustment to provide better gameplay. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Copper Rei
Copper Corp
39
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Posted - 2013.06.08 15:14:00 -
[89] - Quote
There really are two types of game play....PVE is real. I know most people seem to totally disregard it since it does not appeal to them. As a PVE player it took lots of time, money , and practice to aquire the skills to do exploration well. I learned through many efforts how to do that job without loss of isk due to not recalling my probes or landing on a gatecamp. I have learned the mechanics of the probes themselves so I didn't need to run optimal 7 probes to find a target in under 35 sec. It took skill to be able to go into a hostile l-sec/null sec system and come out alive with my loots.
Now with probes that autorecall and autoscanning so nothing is missed, and cargo scanning cans before you even try to open them. (I spent many hours scanning down sites and hacking and analyzing to find that 4 of 5 cans were empty).
They have given all the talents to everyone without anyone having to earn any of it.
If it were the other way you can bet that all hell would be breaking out since 90% of the players would insta quit.
If they decided that pods would auto fly to a safe place and if a gate were camped you could not warp directly to it.
What if they decided that everyone was able to go directly to Marauder and latrge T2 weapons.
That is basically what they did to exploration.
Too many people found it hard to do exploration because they wanted to kill ships instead.
They want to PVP and use PVE to pay for it since there was no money to be made in PVP for the most part.
Well, CCP, I find that skilling up to maurauders and T2 weapons is just too difficult and it takes too long...so give me all those skills and give me a free ship that has enough bonuses to make me even with all the older players.
Even the field a bit. Balance the playing field.
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Copper Rei
Copper Corp
39
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Posted - 2013.06.08 15:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
I need sleep. |
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