why? this change makes no sense to me. I trained to fly a scanning frig...found I needed to also be able to run the sites if I wanted to make anything out of the sites I found.....so I trained to skill everything I needed for exploration to lvl V and then I trained combat to be able to fly decent cruisers...this didn't work as well as the frig due to loss of scan bonuses....so the long awaited t3 which offered scan bonus options........I trained to cruiser V and weapons and all subsystems so I could fly a decent cruiser with scan bonus comparable to my frig........
I just found a good fit that holds all my gear for scanning....analyzer, salvager, codebreaker, and launcher as well as having weapons enough to run the site so I didn't have to fly a second account and tag along another toon while dual boxing and all that..........
I finially get there and you block my access to every known site in h-sec.

I am a 3+ year pilot with no ability to PVP and I enjoy solo exploration.

I found a game I could play and have fun and I have tried damn near every aspect of the game.

This move to eliminate the t3 from the only available sites in h-sec SUCKS MY ASS.

I have never been so pissed.

I am forced into l-sec. and ALL my training is out the window.

They takin all our toys and giving them to the noobs or low sec.

I agree. It's no longer a player driven universe.





DMC

T3 were total overkill for those sites. Most T3's didn't even run them, they just followed the triggers to make the good lootsies spawn ASAP and GTFO. I never understood why anyone capable of flying a T3 would stick around in hisec to run these sites anyway. Take your run-of-the-mill MMO and imagine a max-level character grinding mobs in the tutorial area in hopes for a rare spawn. That is what you have been doing, that is what has been taken away from you. And you cry like this? HTFU...

people will just switch to using Gila and Ishtar, I guess the only issue there is that they may need to train some skills to use them.

If you can fly a Tengu you can fly a Gila, same with Proteus and Ishtar.

T3 were total overkill for those sites. Most T3's didn't even run them, they just followed the triggers to make the good lootsies spawn ASAP and GTFO. I never understood why anyone capable of flying a T3 would stick around in hisec to run these sites anyway. Take your run-of-the-mill MMO and imagine a max-level character grinding mobs in the tutorial area in hopes for a rare spawn. That is what you have been doing, that is what has been taken away from you. And you cry like this? HTFU...

I am a 3+ year pilot with no ability to PVP

T3 were total overkill for those sites.

Most T3's didn't even run them, they just followed the triggers to make the good lootsies spawn ASAP and GTFO.

I never understood why anyone capable of flying a T3 would stick around in hisec to run these sites anyway.

I agree. It's no longer a player driven universe.





DMC

why? this change makes no sense to me. I trained to fly a scanning frig...found I needed to also be able to run the sites if I wanted to make anything out of the sites I found.....so I trained to skill everything I needed for exploration to lvl V and then I trained combat to be able to fly decent cruisers...this didn't work as well as the frig due to loss of scan bonuses....so the long awaited t3 which offered scan bonus options........I trained to cruiser V and weapons and all subsystems so I could fly a decent cruiser with scan bonus comparable to my frig........
I just found a good fit that holds all my gear for scanning....analyzer, salvager, codebreaker, and launcher as well as having weapons enough to run the site so I didn't have to fly a second account and tag along another toon while dual boxing and all that..........
I finially get there and you block my access to every known site in h-sec.

I am a 3+ year pilot with no ability to PVP and I enjoy solo exploration.

I found a game I could play and have fun and I have tried damn near every aspect of the game.

This move to eliminate the t3 from the only available sites in h-sec SUCKS MY ASS.

I have never been so pissed.

I am forced into l-sec. and ALL my training is out the window.

why? this change makes no sense to me.

I finially get there and you block my access to every known site in h-sec.

I am a 3+ year pilot with no ability to PVP and I enjoy solo exploration.

I found a game I could play and have fun and I have tried damn near every aspect of the game.

This move to eliminate the t3 from the only available sites in h-sec SUCKS MY ASS.

I am forced into l-sec. and ALL my training is out the window.

Quiet simply T3s were too OP for those sites

(you know, actually RUNNING the site instead of cherry picking).

Logical solution would be "balance the rewards in such a way that old vets feel no need to run new players' sites"

Stop right there.

It isn't reward balancing.

People just don't want to run the *risk* of losing their ships. It isn't about loot distribution, it isn't about being entitled to do X because you have Y sp. It's because people want super-shiny loot with as little risk, and as little effort as possible. Don't even try to pretend it isn't about that.

EDIT: This only applies in hi-sec.

I do love the fact that you have dudes running highsec exploration sites in T3s to rob newbies from their income. Then when their T3s get suicide ganked for their shiny mods they'll whine on the forums about how suicide gankers are destroying the game and driving new players away

why? this change makes no sense to me. I trained to fly a scanning frig...found I needed to also be able to run the sites if I wanted to make anything out of the sites I found.....so I trained to skill everything I needed for exploration to lvl V and then I trained combat to be able to fly decent cruisers...this didn't work as well as the frig due to loss of scan bonuses....so the long awaited t3 which offered scan bonus options........I trained to cruiser V and weapons and all subsystems so I could fly a decent cruiser with scan bonus comparable to my frig........
I just found a good fit that holds all my gear for scanning....analyzer, salvager, codebreaker, and launcher as well as having weapons enough to run the site so I didn't have to fly a second account and tag along another toon while dual boxing and all that..........
I finially get there and you block my access to every known site in h-sec.

I am a 3+ year pilot with no ability to PVP and I enjoy solo exploration.

I found a game I could play and have fun and I have tried damn near every aspect of the game.

This move to eliminate the t3 from the only available sites in h-sec SUCKS MY ASS.

I have never been so pissed.

I am forced into l-sec. and ALL my training is out the window.

It's also about the intensity of the gaming experience. From my perspective the best thing about highsec PvE is that you don't have to remain alert and tense all the time. No cat and mouse games with locals or roaming gangs, no directional scanner spamming, running gate camps and no scouting and traveling by your personal safespot network. You can actually enjoy the game casually for once doing an activity you like in exchage for a reduced reward level. Increased income is nice, but it's just one thing among many, that decide where and how people spend their time in the game.

The Gnosis most of us received (at least one), fit for exploration and sites is an excellent ship for 4/10.
Perfect for these sites along with probing and hacking.

T3 was total overkill on 3/10 and 4/10.

It's also about the intensity of the gaming experience. From my perspective the best thing about highsec PvE is that you don't have to remain alert and tense all the time. No cat and mouse games with locals or roaming gangs, no directional scanner spamming, running gate camps and no scouting and traveling by your personal safespot network. You can actually enjoy the game casually for once doing an activity you like in exchage for a reduced reward level. Increased income is nice, but it's just one thing among many, that decide where and how people spend their time in the game.

Never mind this is supposed to be a 'sandbox". There are a lot of us in the same boat. just get a nice worm and live with that. gone are the days when CCP gives content for experienced players. They takin all our toys and giving them to the noobs or low sec.

You're absolutely allowed to play the game in the way in which you want to. Hi-sec still exists, and it will continue to exist. But you shouldn't be making "good" ISK when you have a ship that simply tears apart anything you throw it at. It's not healthy for the game.

Hell, with Tags4Sec and the new explo, I feel low-sec should STILL be buffed, but that's just because I'm biased.

actually the eula does prevent you from getting a T3 into a 3/4/10 since the only way you'd have one in there is if you're exploiting

Are you kidding?

You're kidding right?


Tell me more about Faction fitted Machariels/Vindicators/Nightmares/Rattlesnakes Gilas Navy ships and other pimp stuff that should be banned from high sec too.

From your point of view players in high sec should fly with T1 frigates and cruisers only? -because that's what you're implying since T3's are not what you're talking about or at least you've never flown a 3K+DPS Machariel/Vindicator able to clean entire sanctums in less than 20min, leave it alone lvl4's.

You're finding problems where there aren't any, it's players actions and the content they crate for themselves. Someone tells you to do it in a T3? -I don't think so, I don't think neither it's in the EULA, don't like it? don't use it
Make your own content, build your own gaming tools, this is the finest freedom you have available in Eve, you shape yourself your gaming world.
Hell go run lvl4's in a retriever or a T2 frigate if you like, the problems you might find is not tools available but players horrible thinking.

Edit because it's worth: low sec doesn't need more buffs, just needs better thinking players over there.

No one's stopping people from running 3 and 4/10 DED's with Gila's or other blingy ships. CCP agrees with my sentiment that there was a problem because they nerfed specifically T3's in those DED's. Bringing strategic cruisers into lowbie sites isn't this genius idea that only idiots don't do, it's what everyone did, and thus, warranted the nerf.

Level 4's shouldn't even be in this discussion because they can't be solo'd in a Caracal, unlike 3/4 DED's.

EDIT: Spelling

I understand you point of view, thing is that by that logic CCP are not being logic, what about ban from lvl4's Marauders/Navy ships/Pirate ships?

By that logic then why not ban T2 links/OGB and T2 mining ships from high sec?-those have a well known huge impact

By that logic again why not ban from high sec POSs?-those clearly have a huge impact

I understand you point of view, thing is that by that logic CCP are not being logic, what about ban from lvl4's Marauders/Navy ships/Pirate ships?

By that logic then why not ban T2 links/OGB and T2 mining ships from high sec?-those have a well known huge impact

By that logic again why not ban from high sec POSs?-those clearly have a huge impact

It's exactly the same problems but a lot bigger and having a greater impact than T3's running 3/4 anoms, instead of fixing anom difficulty or the mechanic it's easier and faster to script ban an item, and this is silly.

why? this change makes no sense to me. I trained to fly a scanning frig...found I needed to also be able to run the sites if I wanted to make anything out of the sites I found.....so I trained to skill everything I needed for exploration to lvl V and then I trained combat to be able to fly decent cruisers...this didn't work as well as the frig due to loss of scan bonuses....so the long awaited t3 which offered scan bonus options........I trained to cruiser V and weapons and all subsystems so I could fly a decent cruiser with scan bonus comparable to my frig........
I just found a good fit that holds all my gear for scanning....analyzer, salvager, codebreaker, and launcher as well as having weapons enough to run the site so I didn't have to fly a second account and tag along another toon while dual boxing and all that..........
I finially get there and you block my access to every known site in h-sec.

I am a 3+ year pilot with no ability to PVP and I enjoy solo exploration.

I found a game I could play and have fun and I have tried damn near every aspect of the game.

This move to eliminate the t3 from the only available sites in h-sec SUCKS MY ASS.

I have never been so pissed.

I am forced into l-sec. and ALL my training is out the window.

I understand what you mean, but cherry picking is refered to as using DPS to only scan possible DED4's.

Exploration in high sec is all about competition. It *IS* part of exploration. If someone enters "your" site (since it's in no way your site) and you are in high sec you lose the loot, in low sec you die.

This also makes the Gnosis a bad choice imo, as it's slow as ****.

I agree. It's no longer a player driven universe.





DMC

OH NOES. Well guess what, now nobody else can use T3's in your precious 4/10 farm either. This levels the playing field for everyone in high sec. If you don't like. Feel free to biomass yourself and give somebody your stuff.

It's as if you're implying CCP hates your freedom and ingenuity and seeks to ruin your fun.

All they did was not allow a beastly monster of a scanning/clearing combo ship to enter lowbie sites.

People will use HACs instead of T3's, so the speed of completing sites won't lower. If someone can pass you in a T3, he will pass you in a HAC. This means new players will be at a disadvantage for longer because HACs are more skill intensive!

Not really, no.

Both require cruiser V and a smattering of basic support skills that you want to IV or V anyway no matter what ship you fly.

HAC: 10 ranks to V, 3 ranks to IV.
SC: 10 ranks to V, 2 ranks to III.

The difference amounts to a rounding error. If you can fly a T3 competently, switching to HAC is a matter of injecting the HAC skillbook and waiting a few minutes.

I do love the fact that you have dudes running highsec exploration sites in T3s to rob newbies of their income. Then when their T3s get suicide ganked for their shiny mods they'll whine on the forums about how suicide gankers are destroying the game and driving new players away

Talk about over-reacting

God you people are terrible sometimes all the damn time

So what you are saying is that a T3 fitted for PvE is no better than a HAC fitted for PvE?

So what you are saying is that a T3 fitted for PvE is no better than a HAC fitted for PvE?

T3 were total overkill for those sites. Most T3's didn't even run them, they just followed the triggers to make the good lootsies spawn ASAP and GTFO. I never understood why anyone capable of flying a T3 would stick around in hisec to run these sites anyway. Take your run-of-the-mill MMO and imagine a max-level character grinding mobs in the tutorial area in hopes for a rare spawn. That is what you have been doing, that is what has been taken away from you. And you cry like this? HTFU...

So what you are saying is that a T3 fitted for PvE is no better than a HAC fitted for PvE?

No Tippia is saying what the skill difference is...

Yes well I thought it was clear that I don't mean the skill difference in training time

but the fact that you need better skills to do it in a HAC

Yes well I thought it was clear that I don't mean the skill difference in training time (since it's nearly the same, as Tippia showed, but the fact that you need better skills to do it in a HAC.

With all the tears on the forum, who needs suicide ganking?

A corp mate and I were fooling around with exploration. We found a system that had a 4/10 site.

Entered the first one, cleared the first room, and hit the gate. Shortly after landing a tengu decloaks, aggroes the whole room, flies full speed at the loot ship, pops it and warps off in less than 45s. Repeat for 3 more sites in the same afternoon with several different tengu pilots.

That's why.

A corp mate and I were fooling around with exploration. We found a system that had a 4/10 site.

Entered the first one, cleared the first room, and hit the gate. Shortly after landing a tengu decloaks, aggroes the whole room, flies full speed at the loot ship, pops it and warps off in less than 45s. Repeat for 3 more sites in the same afternoon with several different tengu pilots.

That's why.

A corp mate and I were fooling around with exploration. We found a system that had a 4/10 site.

Entered the first one, cleared the first room, and hit the gate. Shortly after landing a tengu decloaks, aggroes the whole room, flies full speed at the loot ship, pops it and warps off in less than 45s. Repeat for 3 more sites in the same afternoon with several different tengu pilots.

That's why.

Of course it's not when the thing we're discussing here is PVE

PVE has never been player driven last I checked.

The only close exception being live events such as the sansha raids....but those were hosted by CCP soooo.....

Wrong, doesn't matter if it's PvP or PvE. The whole point is that CCP creates the content and supplies the tools which we (the playerbase) decide how we're going to use it.

The fact that T3's are no longer allowed by CCP actually validates my original statement.

That's only because the reward is insane.

The best item you could get from a 4/10 in blood space was a c-type med armor repper that sold for 160 mil.

Maybe a energized c-type adaptive but that depended on the markets for which was worth more at the time.

Hardly insane.

Step into l-sec and run a 7/10 and you can get a nice 1 bil drop.

The rewards from escelations can easily be far greater than any 4/10 DED.

Incursions pay better. Militia pays better.

Wrong, doesn't matter if it's PvP or PvE. The whole point is that CCP creates the content and supplies the tools which we (the playerbase) decide how we're going to use it.

The fact that T3's are no longer allowed by CCP actually validates my original statement.


DMC