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In-Game Rewards For Out-Of-Game Efforts - A Disturbing Trend?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
The Sloth	Posted - 2005.11.05 17:44:00 - [1] I don't know if it is just me who finds the concept of in-game rewards for out-of-game efforts rather unsettling. I may be strange, but I am of the belief that your efforts inside that should be rewarded inside the game, not your efforts outside the game. Twice recently I have seen the offer of in-game rewards for efforts outside the game - here and here. I can understand the fact that CCP want to reward people for thier out-of-game efforts regarding the promotion of Eve etc. However, I think that using 'unbalancing' in-game rewards to do so is simply the wrong path to take. Surely if CCP really want to reward people for their out-of-game efforts then they can offer them a subscription discount, some merchandise from the Eve Store or a signed piece of concept art that surely would not cost them too much and not have any effect at all on gameplay. Does anyone else agree?
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:20:00 - [2] Yes. You forgot to add the ships + mods that people won at the fanfest. p - l - u - r
Recog	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:27:00 - [3] Edited by: Recog on 05/11/2005 18:28:09 Yes and I think it should stop. Out of game things should recieve out of game prizes In game things should recieve ingame prizes
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:38:00 - [4] Those events were not fair to those that couldnt get to the fanfest. BlogÖ
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:46:00 - [5] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 05/11/2005 18:46:49 Tbh the Fanfest i something special, they won an ingame contest and got ingame prices. (Some out of game too) Handing out billions of isk for out of in exchange out of game services is wrong though. Plus the new buddy system rewards encourage spam. ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:55:00 - [6] WHAT THE HOLY ASS? A fully fitted faction battelship? A COMPLETE set of pirate implants? A free HAC? I assumed the prizes would be small, this is absolutely ridiculous! People have to work hard for months to get these things and they're just going to throw a free one into the game to the person that signs up the most alts? I was expecting at most a normal battleship as the top prize or a single basic implant. That's enough inventive to get people to link their friends to eve but not enough to get people to create 30 alt accounts, register them for a month, train up 30 hauler characters and sell them for ISK AND then get rewarded with a few billion's worth of faction gear for doing so. I love the idea of getting some in-game rewards for doing things for the community and the game as a whole but there is no way in hell I would condone this kind of reward. That is absolutely ridiculous.
dalman	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:57:00 - [7] Agreed. When they announced the fanfest tournament prizes, I though "wohaa, that's just wrong". The stuff such as signed concept art etc would have been enough (not to mention the honor of winning it). The new awards for fanfest pictures and buddy program is sooooo wrong. The buddy program should be giving out free months. Not free rare ingame stuff. Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin. Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
Zoidberg ENB	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:07:00 - [8] Originally by: Recog Edited by: Recog on 05/11/2005 18:28:09 Yes and I think it should stop. Out of game things should recieve out of game prizes In game things should recieve ingame prizes Exactly. This is pretty low for CCP to do. Just make eBaying legal then.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:10:00 - [9] You guys are taking this way too far. Nothing in Eve lasts forever. Sure the rewards are nice but these get blown up. It's not like they are handing out BPO's which can stay safe in a station somewhere. Got a fully fitted battleship? It can blow up just like every other one out there. Take that with you into a PVP enviroment and see how long that lasts when you got a dozen people unloading at you. Would be a shame to lose it. Something like this would probably just remain a novelty item to the person that recieves it. Jeeze people calm down. What is a single battleship in the entire scope of eve? Absolutely nothing.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:12:00 - [10] Actually, you know what I would like to see? Out of game stuff for eve exists and I'd sure as hell like to see us given something from the store for things like this rather than an in-game reward. Why not make the first prize a signed poster, the second prize a Tshirt and a mug and the third prize a Tshirt? It's not april the first and I'm not laughing.. This is a serious matter that is open to abuse and needs to be rectified by devs before the end of the month.

Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin You guys are taking this way too far. Nothing in Eve lasts forever. Sure the rewards are nice but these get blown up. It's not like they are handing out BPO's which can stay safe in a station somewhere. Got a fully fitted battleship? It can blow up just like every other one out there. Take that with you into a PVP enviroment and see how long that lasts when you got a dozen people unloading at you. Would be a shame to lose it. Something like this would probably just remain a novelty item to the person that recieves it. Jeeze people calm down. What is a single battleship in the entire scope of eve? Absolutely nothing. And so the guy who can afford to make 50 alt accounts deserves a free faction BS worth 5 billion? - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:15:00 - [12] Learn to breathe, relax. How is this going to affect you directly. Even indirectly? To a single person it's a huge gift and shows appreciation towards CCP. CCP is one of the few companies that gives a damn about the players. They do little things to show appreciation and you guys start to raise a fuss? Maybe they are better off treating us like all of the other MMORPG companies out there that could care less if your going to throw this in thier face.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin Learn to breathe, relax. How is this going to affect you directly. Even indirectly? To a single person it's a huge gift and shows appreciation towards CCP. CCP is one of the few companies that gives a damn about the players. They do little things to show appreciation and you guys start to raise a fuss? Maybe they are better off treating us like all of the other MMORPG companies out there that could care less if your going to throw this in thier face. Maybe its for the same reason people hate eBayers and macro miners? It hurts the economy, and its just plain unfair. The "winner" will be the guy with the most $$$ to blow, or the guy who can spam the most buddy emails. Who knows, we might get people spamming buddy links like people spam V14GR4 ads. This is silly. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin You guys are taking this way too far. Nothing in Eve lasts forever. Sure the rewards are nice but these get blown up. It's not like they are handing out BPO's which can stay safe in a station somewhere. Got a fully fitted battleship? It can blow up just like every other one out there. Take that with you into a PVP enviroment and see how long that lasts when you got a dozen people unloading at you. Would be a shame to lose it. Something like this would probably just remain a novelty item to the person that recieves it. Jeeze people calm down. What is a single battleship in the entire scope of eve? Absolutely nothing. And so the guy who can afford to make 50 alt accounts deserves a free faction BS worth 5 billion? There is no hard price on that item. Again it's worth that much because it's a novelty item. How long do you think that would last in a target rich pvp enviroment? I'm betting your pretty knowledgable into PVP. You tell me how long a battleship will last when it's scrambled against a gang or two of opponents in deep space. It's 5 bil because someone has too much money with nothing else better to buy.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:19:00 - [15] Oooo, guess what Im going to be doing to make my iskies from now on. ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Tiny Carlos	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin Learn to breathe, relax. How is this going to affect you directly. Even indirectly? To a single person it's a huge gift and shows appreciation towards CCP. CCP is one of the few companies that gives a damn about the players. They do little things to show appreciation and you guys start to raise a fuss? Maybe they are better off treating us like all of the other MMORPG companies out there that could care less if your going to throw this in thier face. Lol, so how many alts have you signed up so far
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:22:00 - [17] This is my main, I dont have an alt so stick to the topic.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:24:00 - [18] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 19:25:04 Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin You guys are taking this way too far. Nothing in Eve lasts forever. Sure the rewards are nice but these get blown up. It's not like they are handing out BPO's which can stay safe in a station somewhere. Got a fully fitted battleship? It can blow up just like every other one out there. Take that with you into a PVP enviroment and see how long that lasts when you got a dozen people unloading at you. Would be a shame to lose it. Something like this would probably just remain a novelty item to the person that recieves it. Jeeze people calm down. What is a single battleship in the entire scope of eve? Absolutely nothing. And so the guy who can afford to make 50 alt accounts deserves a free faction BS worth 5 billion? There is no hard price on that item. Again it's worth that much because it's a novelty item. How long do you think that would last in a target rich pvp enviroment? I'm betting your pretty knowledgable into PVP. You tell me how long a battleship will last when it's scrambled against a gang or two of opponents in deep space. It's 5 bil because someone has too much money with nothing else better to buy. So, if I had 10,000 cap recharger IIs, you'd say "Oh they're not worth 150 billion, there's no hard price on those items, they won't stop you from dying if you're scrambled by a blob of battleships!!!111111"? The "price" of anything is what people will pay for it. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin There is no hard price on that item. Again it's worth that much because it's a novelty item. How long do you think that would last in a target rich pvp enviroment? I'm betting your pretty knowledgable into PVP. You tell me how long a battleship will last when it's scrambled against a gang or two of opponents in deep space. It's 5 bil because someone has too much money with nothing else better to buy. Its value is based on rarity, actually. The demand for daction modules and ships is always higher than the supply. By putting a free one into the game every month full of faction mods, they reduce the value of the ships and modules that people have either been lucky enough to find or have worked hard to get. Would you complain if they gave your war enemy a free titan for not good reason? You bet you would. And if you wouldn't, you're altogether too passive to see Dark Shikari's side of the argument however it's worded and debating with you on the matter is pointless. The fact remains, it's worth 5 bil and they're handing that to someone for having more friends or money. The game strives toward risk versus reward, giving someone a substantial reward for absolutely no risk is no better than if the devs injected a few billion ISK into their own play accounts. It's not fair precisely because other people have to work ahrd for it and they're devaluing their hard work.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:28:00 - [20] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin There is no hard price on that item. Again it's worth that much because it's a novelty item. How long do you think that would last in a target rich pvp enviroment? I'm betting your pretty knowledgable into PVP. You tell me how long a battleship will last when it's scrambled against a gang or two of opponents in deep space. It's 5 bil because someone has too much money with nothing else better to buy. Its value is based on rarity, actually. The demand for daction modules and ships is always higher than the supply. By putting a free one into the game every month full of faction mods, they reduce the value of the ships and modules that people have either been lucky enough to find or have worked hard to get. Would you complain if they gave your war enemy a free titan for not good reason? You bet you would. And if you wouldn't, you're altogether too passive to see Dark Shikari's side of the argument however it's worded and debating with you on the matter is pointless. The fact remains, it's worth 5 bil and they're handing that to someone for having more friends or money. The game strives toward risk versus reward, giving someone a substantial reward for absolutely no risk is no better than if the devs injected a few billion ISK into their own play accounts. It's not fair precisely because other people have to work ahrd for it and they're devaluing their hard work. A well thought out and mature reply. My thanks. Sounds sensible enough.

Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:32:00 - [21] This reminds me of EA's desperation to get more subscribers when E&B was dying... their buddy thingy absolutely ruined the game for new players...
Paddy Murphy	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:33:00 - [22] Edited by: Paddy Murphy on 05/11/2005 19:34:45 Give out of game prizes for out of game efforts. Someone can just sign themself up for a trial and enter the raffle. I wouldn't mind seeing rewards like EVE shirts or something for OOG services, but to give something thats worth millions upon millions of ISK and takes months of dedicated playing to acquire for Out Of Game services is just not right. This is so wrong that it has actually made me agree with Zoidberg. I mean, seriously... Edited for spelling and grammar ***
Nolan Moon	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:38:00 - [23] This is an MMORPG. Isk shouldn't go to the people with the most friends or money. It should go to people with the most time to waste online.

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:47:00 - [24] There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn This signature is brought to you by MC

Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:51:00 - [25] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 19:52:40 Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn The problem is that you're giving out things worth 5b+ easily (the faction BSs in particular). This means that it becomes "profitable" to start using hoards of alt accounts to claim victory each month. A Bhaalgorn would actually be fine. The fully-kitted faction uberships, though, are worth a huge amount - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Nolan Moon	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:52:00 - [26] If you want to give in-game rewards, they should be non-transferrable and intrinsically worthless. Let players change their ship's color, or wear a hat or something.
Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:54:00 - [27] The prices are given by lottery right ? You cant be 100% sure to win a prize then. I dont think we will see hundreds of people with pirate sets and faction ships winned that way. Prolly just 10-20 people will win a prize in a year.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:55:00 - [28] Do people actually do that sort of thing though? I mean it sounds easy but you gotta enter in your registration information and even a credit card number right? Even still if you went through the trouble of doing it 3 times your still up against thousands of other people.. sounds like a waste of time to me. If people really do this then well wow, that's just dumb. I mean I can think of 1000's of other things I can be doing.
Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 19:52:40 Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn The problem is that you're giving out things worth 5b+ easily (the faction BSs in particular). This means that it becomes "profitable" to start using hoards of alt accounts to claim victory each month. A Bhaalgorn would actually be fine. The fully-kitted faction uberships, though, are worth a huge amount it would prolly be easier and cheaper to buy one by ebay than by creating hoardes of accounts (with different credit cards names and numbers ofc... )
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn Skipped right past my posts, huh? By giving someone a free Bhaalgorn, you're devaluing the existing ones and the hard work people have put in to get them. I know YOU would rather get a bhaalgorn but you have to know that the system will be abused if the prizes are going to be worth that much. And don't tell me it can't be abused because I'm looking at the figures and it's coming out as an ISK-return on cash-invested better than buying ISK on those sites that sell it. A lot better. And it's legitimate, too. How do you think Dark Shikari will feel, too? He won a big pvp tournament to get his faction ship and now one person a month will get one for signing up the most alts? I know to you an in-game reward is free to give out but you must understand how unfair it is. I know I would personally prefer a signed poster if I won the Raffle or a Tshirt and that should be incentive enough for anyone to get friends to sign up but I also know that, like you, most game players would prefer an unfair and unwarranted advantage in-game over a cool poster. Just because they want it doesn't mean it's a good idea to give it to them. The trick in this situation will be to balance rewards such that they are things people want WITHOUT being abusable. And this system is far from abusable. If I had the cash and lack of morals that I know a sizable portion of the eve community have, I'd abuse the heck out of it.



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