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In-Game Rewards For Out-Of-Game Efforts - A Disturbing Trend?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
The Sloth	Posted - 2005.11.05 17:44:00 - [1] I don't know if it is just me who finds the concept of in-game rewards for out-of-game efforts rather unsettling. I may be strange, but I am of the belief that your efforts inside that should be rewarded inside the game, not your efforts outside the game. Twice recently I have seen the offer of in-game rewards for efforts outside the game - here and here. I can understand the fact that CCP want to reward people for thier out-of-game efforts regarding the promotion of Eve etc. However, I think that using 'unbalancing' in-game rewards to do so is simply the wrong path to take. Surely if CCP really want to reward people for their out-of-game efforts then they can offer them a subscription discount, some merchandise from the Eve Store or a signed piece of concept art that surely would not cost them too much and not have any effect at all on gameplay. Does anyone else agree?
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:20:00 - [2] Yes. You forgot to add the ships + mods that people won at the fanfest. p - l - u - r
Recog	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:27:00 - [3] Edited by: Recog on 05/11/2005 18:28:09 Yes and I think it should stop. Out of game things should recieve out of game prizes In game things should recieve ingame prizes
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:38:00 - [4] Those events were not fair to those that couldnt get to the fanfest. BlogÖ
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:46:00 - [5] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 05/11/2005 18:46:49 Tbh the Fanfest i something special, they won an ingame contest and got ingame prices. (Some out of game too) Handing out billions of isk for out of in exchange out of game services is wrong though. Plus the new buddy system rewards encourage spam. ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:55:00 - [6] WHAT THE HOLY ASS? A fully fitted faction battelship? A COMPLETE set of pirate implants? A free HAC? I assumed the prizes would be small, this is absolutely ridiculous! People have to work hard for months to get these things and they're just going to throw a free one into the game to the person that signs up the most alts? I was expecting at most a normal battleship as the top prize or a single basic implant. That's enough inventive to get people to link their friends to eve but not enough to get people to create 30 alt accounts, register them for a month, train up 30 hauler characters and sell them for ISK AND then get rewarded with a few billion's worth of faction gear for doing so. I love the idea of getting some in-game rewards for doing things for the community and the game as a whole but there is no way in hell I would condone this kind of reward. That is absolutely ridiculous.
dalman	Posted - 2005.11.05 18:57:00 - [7] Agreed. When they announced the fanfest tournament prizes, I though "wohaa, that's just wrong". The stuff such as signed concept art etc would have been enough (not to mention the honor of winning it). The new awards for fanfest pictures and buddy program is sooooo wrong. The buddy program should be giving out free months. Not free rare ingame stuff. Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin. Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
Zoidberg ENB	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:07:00 - [8] Originally by: Recog Edited by: Recog on 05/11/2005 18:28:09 Yes and I think it should stop. Out of game things should recieve out of game prizes In game things should recieve ingame prizes Exactly. This is pretty low for CCP to do. Just make eBaying legal then.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:10:00 - [9] You guys are taking this way too far. Nothing in Eve lasts forever. Sure the rewards are nice but these get blown up. It's not like they are handing out BPO's which can stay safe in a station somewhere. Got a fully fitted battleship? It can blow up just like every other one out there. Take that with you into a PVP enviroment and see how long that lasts when you got a dozen people unloading at you. Would be a shame to lose it. Something like this would probably just remain a novelty item to the person that recieves it. Jeeze people calm down. What is a single battleship in the entire scope of eve? Absolutely nothing.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:12:00 - [10] Actually, you know what I would like to see? Out of game stuff for eve exists and I'd sure as hell like to see us given something from the store for things like this rather than an in-game reward. Why not make the first prize a signed poster, the second prize a Tshirt and a mug and the third prize a Tshirt? It's not april the first and I'm not laughing.. This is a serious matter that is open to abuse and needs to be rectified by devs before the end of the month.

Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin You guys are taking this way too far. Nothing in Eve lasts forever. Sure the rewards are nice but these get blown up. It's not like they are handing out BPO's which can stay safe in a station somewhere. Got a fully fitted battleship? It can blow up just like every other one out there. Take that with you into a PVP enviroment and see how long that lasts when you got a dozen people unloading at you. Would be a shame to lose it. Something like this would probably just remain a novelty item to the person that recieves it. Jeeze people calm down. What is a single battleship in the entire scope of eve? Absolutely nothing. And so the guy who can afford to make 50 alt accounts deserves a free faction BS worth 5 billion? - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:15:00 - [12] Learn to breathe, relax. How is this going to affect you directly. Even indirectly? To a single person it's a huge gift and shows appreciation towards CCP. CCP is one of the few companies that gives a damn about the players. They do little things to show appreciation and you guys start to raise a fuss? Maybe they are better off treating us like all of the other MMORPG companies out there that could care less if your going to throw this in thier face.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin Learn to breathe, relax. How is this going to affect you directly. Even indirectly? To a single person it's a huge gift and shows appreciation towards CCP. CCP is one of the few companies that gives a damn about the players. They do little things to show appreciation and you guys start to raise a fuss? Maybe they are better off treating us like all of the other MMORPG companies out there that could care less if your going to throw this in thier face. Maybe its for the same reason people hate eBayers and macro miners? It hurts the economy, and its just plain unfair. The "winner" will be the guy with the most $$$ to blow, or the guy who can spam the most buddy emails. Who knows, we might get people spamming buddy links like people spam V14GR4 ads. This is silly. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin You guys are taking this way too far. Nothing in Eve lasts forever. Sure the rewards are nice but these get blown up. It's not like they are handing out BPO's which can stay safe in a station somewhere. Got a fully fitted battleship? It can blow up just like every other one out there. Take that with you into a PVP enviroment and see how long that lasts when you got a dozen people unloading at you. Would be a shame to lose it. Something like this would probably just remain a novelty item to the person that recieves it. Jeeze people calm down. What is a single battleship in the entire scope of eve? Absolutely nothing. And so the guy who can afford to make 50 alt accounts deserves a free faction BS worth 5 billion? There is no hard price on that item. Again it's worth that much because it's a novelty item. How long do you think that would last in a target rich pvp enviroment? I'm betting your pretty knowledgable into PVP. You tell me how long a battleship will last when it's scrambled against a gang or two of opponents in deep space. It's 5 bil because someone has too much money with nothing else better to buy.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:19:00 - [15] Oooo, guess what Im going to be doing to make my iskies from now on. ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Tiny Carlos	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin Learn to breathe, relax. How is this going to affect you directly. Even indirectly? To a single person it's a huge gift and shows appreciation towards CCP. CCP is one of the few companies that gives a damn about the players. They do little things to show appreciation and you guys start to raise a fuss? Maybe they are better off treating us like all of the other MMORPG companies out there that could care less if your going to throw this in thier face. Lol, so how many alts have you signed up so far
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:22:00 - [17] This is my main, I dont have an alt so stick to the topic.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:24:00 - [18] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 19:25:04 Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin You guys are taking this way too far. Nothing in Eve lasts forever. Sure the rewards are nice but these get blown up. It's not like they are handing out BPO's which can stay safe in a station somewhere. Got a fully fitted battleship? It can blow up just like every other one out there. Take that with you into a PVP enviroment and see how long that lasts when you got a dozen people unloading at you. Would be a shame to lose it. Something like this would probably just remain a novelty item to the person that recieves it. Jeeze people calm down. What is a single battleship in the entire scope of eve? Absolutely nothing. And so the guy who can afford to make 50 alt accounts deserves a free faction BS worth 5 billion? There is no hard price on that item. Again it's worth that much because it's a novelty item. How long do you think that would last in a target rich pvp enviroment? I'm betting your pretty knowledgable into PVP. You tell me how long a battleship will last when it's scrambled against a gang or two of opponents in deep space. It's 5 bil because someone has too much money with nothing else better to buy. So, if I had 10,000 cap recharger IIs, you'd say "Oh they're not worth 150 billion, there's no hard price on those items, they won't stop you from dying if you're scrambled by a blob of battleships!!!111111"? The "price" of anything is what people will pay for it. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin There is no hard price on that item. Again it's worth that much because it's a novelty item. How long do you think that would last in a target rich pvp enviroment? I'm betting your pretty knowledgable into PVP. You tell me how long a battleship will last when it's scrambled against a gang or two of opponents in deep space. It's 5 bil because someone has too much money with nothing else better to buy. Its value is based on rarity, actually. The demand for daction modules and ships is always higher than the supply. By putting a free one into the game every month full of faction mods, they reduce the value of the ships and modules that people have either been lucky enough to find or have worked hard to get. Would you complain if they gave your war enemy a free titan for not good reason? You bet you would. And if you wouldn't, you're altogether too passive to see Dark Shikari's side of the argument however it's worded and debating with you on the matter is pointless. The fact remains, it's worth 5 bil and they're handing that to someone for having more friends or money. The game strives toward risk versus reward, giving someone a substantial reward for absolutely no risk is no better than if the devs injected a few billion ISK into their own play accounts. It's not fair precisely because other people have to work ahrd for it and they're devaluing their hard work.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:28:00 - [20] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Samurai Pumpkin There is no hard price on that item. Again it's worth that much because it's a novelty item. How long do you think that would last in a target rich pvp enviroment? I'm betting your pretty knowledgable into PVP. You tell me how long a battleship will last when it's scrambled against a gang or two of opponents in deep space. It's 5 bil because someone has too much money with nothing else better to buy. Its value is based on rarity, actually. The demand for daction modules and ships is always higher than the supply. By putting a free one into the game every month full of faction mods, they reduce the value of the ships and modules that people have either been lucky enough to find or have worked hard to get. Would you complain if they gave your war enemy a free titan for not good reason? You bet you would. And if you wouldn't, you're altogether too passive to see Dark Shikari's side of the argument however it's worded and debating with you on the matter is pointless. The fact remains, it's worth 5 bil and they're handing that to someone for having more friends or money. The game strives toward risk versus reward, giving someone a substantial reward for absolutely no risk is no better than if the devs injected a few billion ISK into their own play accounts. It's not fair precisely because other people have to work ahrd for it and they're devaluing their hard work. A well thought out and mature reply. My thanks. Sounds sensible enough.

Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:32:00 - [21] This reminds me of EA's desperation to get more subscribers when E&B was dying... their buddy thingy absolutely ruined the game for new players...
Paddy Murphy	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:33:00 - [22] Edited by: Paddy Murphy on 05/11/2005 19:34:45 Give out of game prizes for out of game efforts. Someone can just sign themself up for a trial and enter the raffle. I wouldn't mind seeing rewards like EVE shirts or something for OOG services, but to give something thats worth millions upon millions of ISK and takes months of dedicated playing to acquire for Out Of Game services is just not right. This is so wrong that it has actually made me agree with Zoidberg. I mean, seriously... Edited for spelling and grammar ***
Nolan Moon	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:38:00 - [23] This is an MMORPG. Isk shouldn't go to the people with the most friends or money. It should go to people with the most time to waste online.

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:47:00 - [24] There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn This signature is brought to you by MC

Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:51:00 - [25] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 19:52:40 Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn The problem is that you're giving out things worth 5b+ easily (the faction BSs in particular). This means that it becomes "profitable" to start using hoards of alt accounts to claim victory each month. A Bhaalgorn would actually be fine. The fully-kitted faction uberships, though, are worth a huge amount - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Nolan Moon	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:52:00 - [26] If you want to give in-game rewards, they should be non-transferrable and intrinsically worthless. Let players change their ship's color, or wear a hat or something.
Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:54:00 - [27] The prices are given by lottery right ? You cant be 100% sure to win a prize then. I dont think we will see hundreds of people with pirate sets and faction ships winned that way. Prolly just 10-20 people will win a prize in a year.
Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:55:00 - [28] Do people actually do that sort of thing though? I mean it sounds easy but you gotta enter in your registration information and even a credit card number right? Even still if you went through the trouble of doing it 3 times your still up against thousands of other people.. sounds like a waste of time to me. If people really do this then well wow, that's just dumb. I mean I can think of 1000's of other things I can be doing.
Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2005.11.05 19:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 19:52:40 Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn The problem is that you're giving out things worth 5b+ easily (the faction BSs in particular). This means that it becomes "profitable" to start using hoards of alt accounts to claim victory each month. A Bhaalgorn would actually be fine. The fully-kitted faction uberships, though, are worth a huge amount it would prolly be easier and cheaper to buy one by ebay than by creating hoardes of accounts (with different credit cards names and numbers ofc... )
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn Skipped right past my posts, huh? By giving someone a free Bhaalgorn, you're devaluing the existing ones and the hard work people have put in to get them. I know YOU would rather get a bhaalgorn but you have to know that the system will be abused if the prizes are going to be worth that much. And don't tell me it can't be abused because I'm looking at the figures and it's coming out as an ISK-return on cash-invested better than buying ISK on those sites that sell it. A lot better. And it's legitimate, too. How do you think Dark Shikari will feel, too? He won a big pvp tournament to get his faction ship and now one person a month will get one for signing up the most alts? I know to you an in-game reward is free to give out but you must understand how unfair it is. I know I would personally prefer a signed poster if I won the Raffle or a Tshirt and that should be incentive enough for anyone to get friends to sign up but I also know that, like you, most game players would prefer an unfair and unwarranted advantage in-game over a cool poster. Just because they want it doesn't mean it's a good idea to give it to them. The trick in this situation will be to balance rewards such that they are things people want WITHOUT being abusable. And this system is far from abusable. If I had the cash and lack of morals that I know a sizable portion of the eve community have, I'd abuse the heck out of it.

Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:06:00 - [31] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 20:08:02 Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn Skipped right past my posts, huh? By giving someone a free Bhaalgorn, you're devaluing the existing ones and the hard work people have put in to get them. I know YOU would rather get a bhaalgorn but you have to know that the system will be abused if the prizes are going to be worth that much. And don't tell me it can't be abused because I'm looking at the figures and it's coming out as an ISK-return on cash-invested better than buying ISK on those sites that sell it. A lot better. And it's legitimate, too. How do you think Dark Shikari will feel, too? He won a big pvp tournament to get his faction ship and now one person a month will get one for signing up the most alts? Wah? That was Shin Ra that won the tournament, I didn't win anything and I don't own any faction battleships. But yes, you have quite a point--giving out X rare item for free will devalue all other players' rare item Xs. I actually didn't think of that before. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:07:00 - [32] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 19:52:40 Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn The problem is that you're giving out things worth 5b+ easily (the faction BSs in particular). This means that it becomes "profitable" to start using hoards of alt accounts to claim victory each month. A Bhaalgorn would actually be fine. The fully-kitted faction uberships, though, are worth a huge amount The Bhaalgorn is faction ship? This signature is brought to you by MC

Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:08:00 - [33] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 20:08:33 Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 19:52:40 Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn The problem is that you're giving out things worth 5b+ easily (the faction BSs in particular). This means that it becomes "profitable" to start using hoards of alt accounts to claim victory each month. A Bhaalgorn would actually be fine. The fully-kitted faction uberships, though, are worth a huge amount The Bhaalgorn is faction ship? And its not worth 5 billion, so signing up 50 alt accounts to get yourself one wouldn't be worth it. Read Nyphur's post--its probably the best made yet. It explains why not only is this abusable, but it is bad for everyone in EVE who already owns faction battleships. Giving them away for free devalues the ones that people earned. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:15:00 - [34] Originally by: Dark Shikari Wah? That was Shin Ra that won the tournament, I didn't win anything and I don't own any faction battleships. But yes, you have quite a point--giving out X rare item for free will devalue all other players' rare item Xs. I actually didn't think of that before. Oh, my mistake. Getting the names muddled up.

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:15:00 - [35] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn Skipped right past my posts, huh? By giving someone a free Bhaalgorn, you're devaluing the existing ones and the hard work people have put in to get them. I know YOU would rather get a bhaalgorn but you have to know that the system will be abused if the prizes are going to be worth that much. And don't tell me it can't be abused because I'm looking at the figures and it's coming out as an ISK-return on cash-invested better than buying ISK on those sites that sell it. A lot better. And it's legitimate, too. How do you think Dark Shikari will feel, too? He won a big pvp tournament to get his faction ship and now one person a month will get one for signing up the most alts? I know to you an in-game reward is free to give out but you must understand how unfair it is. I know I would personally prefer a signed poster if I won the Raffle or a Tshirt and that should be incentive enough for anyone to get friends to sign up but I also know that, like you, most game players would prefer an unfair and unwarranted advantage in-game over a cool poster. Just because they want it doesn't mean it's a good idea to give it to them. The trick in this situation will be to balance rewards such that they are things people want WITHOUT being abusable. And this system is far from abusable. If I had the cash and lack of morals that I know a sizable portion of the eve community have, I'd abuse the heck out of it. Wait, your reasoning is that giving away one faction ship each month is upsetting the economy? That's just funny. Do you have any idea how many faction ships are coming in each day? Your second point is abuse. You can try, but there is a reason we waited until now to do it, that is that the weekly pool is far to big for you to even remotely affect it. The system itself is monitored to prevent massive abuse of the system itself, no matter if there a lottery at the end or not because this is gametime. Abusing this system has resulted in a lot of bans, including in most cases a ban of the persons full EVE account. This signature is brought to you by MC

Ashis	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:16:00 - [36] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. I respectfully disagree. Quote: This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. I can't think of it happening in Everquest or WoW during my time there - and I can't picture the communities in those MMOs not raising this as a point as well if it did. Not to say it hasn't happened, just that I have never heard of it. Sure, for an ingame event there are in game rewards, but in game rewards for out of game events? But all this is beside the point - I'm sure it has been done before in other MMOs, but in my mind it detracts from the consistency and purity of the game world. Much like Ebay. Ebay gives people rewards for out of game successes as well. In the case of Ebay a players financial well-being and success gives his character an advantage. Likewise in the case of out-of-game event rewards something completely detached and seperate from the game world gives someone an advantage. I want to know that the characters in the game that I am competing against (it is a PVP game afterall, be it combat, production, or trade) are on equal footing with me. When they beat me I want to know it's because their gaming skill has brought them to the point where they deserve to beat me. I don't want to, in the back of my head, think "gee, he kicked my a$% only because he one the "draw a picture of Oveur for a HAC" contest (yep - exagerration, but you see the point). Tranquility should be a pristine arena where all characters have the same advantages and disadvantages, where our in game choices are the sole measure of our success, and the skills we have developed at playing the game alone determine whether we fly home victorious, or awake in a cloning station. That's what I would hope for. This isn't a "make it or break it" issue for me by any means, but it has irked me, and it's good to know I'm not alone on that. __________

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 20:08:33 Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 19:52:40 Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn The problem is that you're giving out things worth 5b+ easily (the faction BSs in particular). This means that it becomes "profitable" to start using hoards of alt accounts to claim victory each month. A Bhaalgorn would actually be fine. The fully-kitted faction uberships, though, are worth a huge amount The Bhaalgorn is faction ship? And its not worth 5 billion, so signing up 50 alt accounts to get yourself one wouldn't be worth it. Read Nyphur's post--its probably the best made yet. It explains why not only is this abusable, but it is bad for everyone in EVE who already owns faction battleships. Giving them away for free devalues the ones that people earned. An Imperial Issue Apocalypse is rare. A faction ship is simply uncommon. This signature is brought to you by MC

DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:17:00 - [38] Faction battleships are worth 500-1.5b tops.. which is what I assume they're going to give away. If you're talking about Imperial Apocalypse, fat chance of CCP giving you a 20bil isk ship. 1.5b is still a lot, but not enough to make you wanna get 50 alt accounts. If you were that willing to spend money for the sake of ingame stuff you could get a much better deal on ebay :P Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:18:00 - [39] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 20:20:50 Originally by: Oveur An Imperial Issue Apocalypse is rare. A faction ship is simply uncommon. But you stated in the post that you will be giving away "uberized" faction battleships with full faction equipment, if I understood correctly. Those are worth 3-5 billion. Quote: A factional battleship fitted with uber mods. Pick from the following factional battleship and we will fit it with the appropriate uber gear: Navy Raven, Megathron Navy Issue, Tempest Fleet Issue, Apocalypse Navy Issue. (Emphasis added) - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:20:00 - [40] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 05/11/2005 20:22:29 Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. I agree, but giving out +3 bill sounds some excessive. Getting +3 bill isk for recruiting people on random gaming forum sounds wrong, hell thats more money then most players even manage to gather in 1-2 years ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]


Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:26:00 - [41] Originally by: Ashis I can't think of it happening in Everquest or WoW during my time there - and I can't picture the communities in those MMOs not raising this as a point as well if it did. World of Warcarft Collectors Edition Features: * Exclusive in game pet * Play the full game on both CD-ROM and DVD-ROM * 1 month subscription to World of Warcraft * 200 plus page hardcover art book * World of Warcraft Behind the Scenes DVD Everquest II Collector's Edition The CollectorÆs Edition includes a number of in-game items, including "paintings" of EverQuest II scenery to be hung on the walls of a player's house, magical talking statues of Antonia and Lucan (voiced by Hollywood talent Heather Graham and Christopher Lee), and an exclusive pet baby dragon. This signature is brought to you by MC


Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:28:00 - [42] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Faction battleships are worth 500-1.5b tops.. which is what I assume they're going to give away. If you're talking about Imperial Apocalypse, fat chance of CCP giving you a 20bil isk ship. 1.5b is still a lot, but not enough to make you wanna get 50 alt accounts. If you were that willing to spend money for the sake of ingame stuff you could get a much better deal on ebay :P Like I pointed out earlier, getting 50 alt's will get you noticed by our monitoring systems but it will not enable you to affect this drawing This signature is brought to you by MC

Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:31:00 - [43] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 20:33:45 Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Ashis I can't think of it happening in Everquest or WoW during my time there - and I can't picture the communities in those MMOs not raising this as a point as well if it did. World of Warcarft Collectors Edition Features: * Exclusive in game pet * Play the full game on both CD-ROM and DVD-ROM * 1 month subscription to World of Warcraft * 200 plus page hardcover art book * World of Warcraft Behind the Scenes DVD Everquest II Collector's Edition The CollectorÆs Edition includes a number of in-game items, including "paintings" of EverQuest II scenery to be hung on the walls of a player's house, magical talking statues of Antonia and Lucan (voiced by Hollywood talent Heather Graham and Christopher Lee), and an exclusive pet baby dragon. Can you sell the pet, at all? (No) Does the pet kill people? Do the paintings fire missiles? (No) Is EVE Online World of Warcraft? (No) Is your monitoring system perfect? (I wish) Lets just hope you can catch people who try to abuse the system faster than they appear. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:31:00 - [44] oi wheres my prize ;\ I got more people to sign up than I forced to quit (I'll take a navy mega with all gallente navy stuff pls) Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:37:00 - [45] Edited by: Nyphur on 05/11/2005 20:39:32 The system isn't directly abusable to advantage unless you know how many signups they get from buddy accounts per month. Then you could calculate the normalised value won per ú15 ticket and deduce if it's worth it. It could be cheaper than buying isk from ebay, even, if they don't get many signups. It boils down to being able to purchase a ticket in an lottery that will run for in-game things worth a substantial amount of money. So which is it? Is it a money-making lottery for CCP which dilutes the rarity of expansive ships or is it what it's intended to be - an incentive for people to invite their friends to play eve? Supply of Navy issue ships is low since they take a lot of work to actually get. While I don't think it's horrible to give one out for a cool event like the fanfest tournament which happens once a year and has a single winner, I definitely do not agree with one being thrown into the game every month with no work equivalent, along with other prizes of lesser value but equal rarity (pirate implant sets). The supply is low on these items and the demand is most certainly high, hence the high value placed on them. When you aryificially increase supply, you devalue the legitimate supply. You can say it's not rare but only uncommon but that doesn't mean it won't be devalued by one every month entering the game. Also, I think Dark Shikari covered teh EQ2 and WoW references there. They never EVER give something out as a prize which has value in the game. In fact, I wouldn't even be annoyed if these faction battleships and such were locked non-tradeable and non-refinable etc so that the only thing the winner could do is use them. I'm not complaining about putting something powerful into the hands of someone for an out of game event, I'm complaining about putting something VALUABLE into someone's hands for an out of game event. If it's not tradeable, it's not worth anything and that's where all other popular MMOs draw their line. To put it simply.. If you're going to be giving out something every single month, it had better be worth very little or practically zero due to nontradeability. EDIT: And who said 50 alts? You can get 50 alliancemates to sign up an alt each. The monitoring system will not detect this and if the prize is won, it can easilly be liquidated and split among the alliance.
Ashis	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:38:00 - [46] Edited by: Ashis on 05/11/2005 20:39:49 Edited by: Ashis on 05/11/2005 20:39:25 Originally by: Oveur World of Warcarft Collectors Edition Features: * Exclusive in game pet * Play the full game on both CD-ROM and DVD-ROM * 1 month subscription to World of Warcraft * 200 plus page hardcover art book * World of Warcraft Behind the Scenes DVD Everquest II Collector's Edition The CollectorÆs Edition includes a number of in-game items, including "paintings" of EverQuest II scenery to be hung on the walls of a player's house, magical talking statues of Antonia and Lucan (voiced by Hollywood talent Heather Graham and Christopher Lee), and an exclusive pet baby dragon. Let me say again - I'm not saying that there aren't items that are given to player that cosmetically effect the game world. (Give them a hat, title, medal, or whichever). I am saying that those items do not have an ingame advantage. Of the items you listed above, the only ones that are in the game worlds are: - Ingame Pets - Paintings for a players house The others are essentially "signed posters." As Eve has monopolized much of all of my gaming time lately, unless something has changed in EQ2 since Beta the Paintings for a players house had no advantage - housing objects were cosmetic only. As for the WOW Pet: (link is http://www.dealtime.com/xPR-WORLD_OF_WARCRAFT_COLLECTORS_ED_MAC_WIN~RD-162390249092) "There are pets in the game (in addition to the pets warlocks and hunters get to help them battle). These pets serve no purpose other than to collect and have fun with. My warlock had a black cat and it really added to the whole "evil magic" persona. The exclusive pets include a panda bear, a mini-diablo (my personal fav and a tribute to Blizzard's hit game Diablo), and a Zergling (a baby version of their Zerg alien from their hit game StarCraft). As for the EQ2 Pet, it is restricted to your housing, and has no effect on the game (Edit: That I can find). All of your examples seem to be cosmetic. BUT Even if we find one that isn't, as I said in my initial post, I believe that this is beside the point. I respectfully disagree that in game rewards should be given for out of game successes for the reasons posted previously. __________

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 20:33:45 Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Ashis I can't think of it happening in Everquest or WoW during my time there - and I can't picture the communities in those MMOs not raising this as a point as well if it did. World of Warcarft Collectors Edition Features: * Exclusive in game pet * Play the full game on both CD-ROM and DVD-ROM * 1 month subscription to World of Warcraft * 200 plus page hardcover art book * World of Warcraft Behind the Scenes DVD Everquest II Collector's Edition The CollectorÆs Edition includes a number of in-game items, including "paintings" of EverQuest II scenery to be hung on the walls of a player's house, magical talking statues of Antonia and Lucan (voiced by Hollywood talent Heather Graham and Christopher Lee), and an exclusive pet baby dragon. Can you sell the pet, at all? (No) Does the pet kill people? Do the paintings fire missiles? (No) Is EVE Online World of Warcraft? (No) Is your monitoring system perfect? (I wish) Lets just hope you can catch people who try to abuse the system faster than they appear. I can do reasoning like this if you want: Do you have a chance of winning the prize? (Yes) Is it likely? (No) Can you seriously abuse it? (Yes) Will I get banned, including my paying character for it? (Yes) Would I be prepared to run that risk for 1B? (No) Will it unbalance or devaluate the economy for the given away item? (Not remotely) Will somebody be lucky and win it? (Yes) Will he abuse it when he wins it? (No, because how can you assume everyone has bad intentions?) But what if he does sell it? (His choice, as with everything in EVE) Will it bring more players to EVE? (Yes) Does it reward players which get more people to play EVE? (Yes) Is it even encouraging players to recruit into EVE? (Yes) Would it be more encouraging to get a poster signed by a tard like me? (No) Will more players in EVE benefit EVE as a whole? (Yes, means more devs working on EVE) Is it then all cool in the end because this drop in the ocean doesn't even cause a ripple? (Yes) This signature is brought to you by MC

DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:43:00 - [48] Will DigitalCommunist get kitted Navy Mega (Yes) Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Sinonia Torviir	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:45:00 - [49] giving in game stuff for rl related things r wrong and u should know it go to fanfest and make some pictures -> have chance to win in game items have the time and money irl -> advantage in game don't know what u think but imo ebay is almost the same u say giving out in game prices for rl stuff is ok because other mmorpgs do it too? pls go ask ur wife if its ok to cheat her because well...other have done it too right? u'll be surprised of the answer...
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Oveur Will I get banned, including my paying character for it? (Yes) Wrong. Its really easy to avoid being caught--just ask a bunch of alliancemates to avoid it. Will you get banned? (No) Originally by: Oveur Would I be prepared to run that risk for 1B? (No) Many people would run it for 3-5 billion, which is what a fully-fitted faction battleship is worth. Especially since you need not use your main account to do it. Originally by: Oveur Will it unbalance or devaluate the economy for the given away item? (Not remotely) Perhaps yes, if you give away one every month. Originally by: Oveur Will somebody be lucky and win it? (Yes) It won't be luck, it'll be who-can-***-the-most-alts. Originally by:** Oveur Will it bring more players to EVE? (Yes) And it will create a stupid system like we had in Earth and Beyond, where people try to get new players to use THEIR referral so they get X bonus in game. If you haven't played Earth and Beyond, ask someone who has--the whole refferal idea completely ruined the game. Originally by: Oveur Does it reward players which get more people to play EVE? (Yes) See above comment. Originally by: Oveur Is it then all cool in the end because this drop in the ocean doesn't even cause a ripple? (Yes) Read what I said about Earth and Beyond. Creating a system like this, simply the fact that it exists, will ruin the game for new players. Everyone will be pushing newbies to get a new account using their buddy refferal, and hell they'll be paying newbies for it (like they did in Earth and Beyond). - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.

Lily Savage	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:47:00 - [51] Digressing slightly to the subject of Buddy Account abuse, I just saw this on a well known online auction site: EVE ONLINE 30 DAY NEW ACCOUNT KEY Buy it now price: ú7.99 Item Description: You will receive by email one 30 Day New Account Key for Eve Online ...

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:48:00 - [52] Originally by: Ashis Edited by: Ashis on 05/11/2005 20:39:49 Edited by: Ashis on 05/11/2005 20:39:25 Originally by: Oveur World of Warcarft Collectors Edition Features: * Exclusive in game pet * Play the full game on both CD-ROM and DVD-ROM * 1 month subscription to World of Warcraft * 200 plus page hardcover art book * World of Warcraft Behind the Scenes DVD Everquest II Collector's Edition The CollectorÆs Edition includes a number of in-game items, including "paintings" of EverQuest II scenery to be hung on the walls of a player's house, magical talking statues of Antonia and Lucan (voiced by Hollywood talent Heather Graham and Christopher Lee), and an exclusive pet baby dragon. Let me say again - I'm not saying that there aren't items that are given to player that cosmetically effect the game world. (Give them a hat, title, medal, or whichever). I am saying that those items do not have an ingame advantage. Of the items you listed above, the only ones that are in the game worlds are: - Ingame Pets - Paintings for a players house The others are essentially "signed posters." As Eve has monopolized much of all of my gaming time lately, unless something has changed in EQ2 since Beta the Paintings for a players house had no advantage - housing objects were cosmetic only. As for the WOW Pet: (link is http://www.dealtime.com/xPR-WORLD_OF_WARCRAFT_COLLECTORS_ED_MAC_WIN~RD-162390249092) "There are pets in the game (in addition to the pets warlocks and hunters get to help them battle). These pets serve no purpose other than to collect and have fun with. My warlock had a black cat and it really added to the whole "evil magic" persona. The exclusive pets include a panda bear, a mini-diablo (my personal fav and a tribute to Blizzard's hit game Diablo), and a Zergling (a baby version of their Zerg alien from their hit game StarCraft). As for the EQ2 Pet, it is restricted to your housing, and has no effect on the game (Edit: That I can find). All of your examples seem to be cosmetic. BUT Even if we find one that isn't, as I said in my initial post, I believe that this is beside the point. I respectfully disagree that in game rewards should be given for out of game successes for the reasons posted previously. My opinion is that giving an item which has no value is not an incentive. It surely was not the reason for buying those packs there. However, I know that if I could get something valuable for getting my friends to play with me in my corp and would benefit the corp as a whole, such as a ship, I would. And just to point out again, this is occasional, it's not like we're giving away thousands of faction ships. This is for a good cause, so I believe it's worth it and you'll notice that in 99.9% cases we give oog awards for oog activity simply because we feel in those cases that's the right thing to do. Breaking the mold and doing something encouraging to bring more players into EVE is a good thing. Not only that, is getting a new player into the game borderlin in-game activity? The benefit for you doing it is all materialized in-game whether you make the poor bastard mine 1 billion trit for you or give him a cruiser right away This signature is brought to you by MC

Sadist	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:51:00 - [53] Nothing wrong with this tbh. You could just as well whine about someone having 4 mining accounts, all whoring some veld roids for the main on macros (it would be foolish to believe there aren't). Hey, they also earn isk for OOG money... It's just a matter of how u look at it. --------------- VIP member of the [23] Sadist - harsh to the idiots, kind to the smart
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:52:00 - [54] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 20:52:51 I can see this happening soon: Vet: "Hey, you new to EVE?" Newbie: "Yeah!" Vet: "Want 2m ISK?" Newbie: "OMG yeah! What do I have to do?" Vet: "Just recreate your account using a buddy code I send to you! Create a new char, and convo me up, and I'll send you 2m ISK!" Newbie: "Sure! My email is [email protected]" .... a few hours later ... Newbie to corp chat: "I just got 2 million from this guy, he sent me this buddy code and stuff!" Corp: "OMG you got ripped off! Buddy code accounts are going for 8 million these days!" Newbie: "Huh?" This is exactly what happened in Earth and Beyond when this was introduced. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:53:00 - [55] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 20:48:26 Originally by: Oveur Will I get banned, including my paying character for it? (Yes) Wrong. Its really easy to avoid being caught--just ask a bunch of alliancemates to register alts or the like. Will you get banned? (No) Originally by: Oveur Would I be prepared to run that risk for 1B? (No) Many people would run it for 3-5 billion, which is what a fully-fitted faction battleship is worth. Especially since you need not use your main account to do it. Originally by: Oveur Will it unbalance or devaluate the economy for the given away item? (Not remotely) Perhaps yes, if you give away one every month. Originally by: Oveur Will somebody be lucky and win it? (Yes) It won't be luck, it'll be who-can-***-the-most-alts. Originally by:** Oveur Will it bring more players to EVE? (Yes) And it will create a stupid system like we had in Earth and Beyond, where people try to get new players to use THEIR referral so they get X bonus in game. If you haven't played Earth and Beyond, ask someone who has--the whole refferal idea completely ruined the game. Originally by: Oveur Does it reward players which get more people to play EVE? (Yes) See above comment. Originally by: Oveur Is it then all cool in the end because this drop in the ocean doesn't even cause a ripple? (Yes) Read what I said about Earth and Beyond. Creating a system like this, simply the fact that it exists, will ruin the game for new players. Everyone will be pushing newbies to get a new account using their buddy refferal, and hell they'll be paying newbies for it (like they did in Earth and Beyond). Uhm, you didn't really read about the contest, did you? The buddy has to subscribe for you to be eligible. I'd love to see you speend 2000 USD to have 50 tickets amongst 5-10K tickets to have a remote chance of winning that battleship Oh, btw, we actually do pay for subscribers. It's called our affiliate program and it has existed for more than a year. That also requires you to subscribe, the referral is not enough. This signature is brought to you by MC

Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:54:00 - [56] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 20:55:32 Wait a minute, its a raffle, not "the person with the most wins"? That is fine by me. Good idea, actually /never actually realized it was going to be luck based... this isn't bad at all... Due to the huge number of buddy accounts being sent out, that means it probably won't end up like Earth and Beyond, as the chance will be low enough to discourage that sort of conduct. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 20:54:00 - [57] Originally by: Oveur I can do reasoning like this if you want: 1. Do you have a chance of winning the prize? (Yes) 2. Is it likely? (No) 3. Can you seriously abuse it? (Yes) 4. Will I get banned, including my paying character for it? (Yes) 5. Would I be prepared to run that risk for 1B? (No) 6. Will it unbalance or devaluate the economy for the given away item? (Not remotely) 7. Will somebody be lucky and win it? (Yes) 8. Will he abuse it when he wins it? (No, because how can you assume everyone has bad intentions?) 9. But what if he does sell it? (His choice, as with everything in EVE) 10. Will it bring more players to EVE? (Yes) 11. Does it reward players which get more people to play EVE? (Yes) 12. Is it even encouraging players to recruit into EVE? (Yes) 13. Would it be more encouraging to get a poster signed by a tard like me? (No) 14. Will more players in EVE benefit EVE as a whole? (Yes, means more devs working on EVE) 15. Is it then all cool in the end because this drop in the ocean doesn't even cause a ripple? (Yes) I've numbered your points since they're in sucha dishevelled heap (damn you for making him do that Shikari :p), to make it easier for me to reply to them individually. 2. The chance of winning is based on the number of successful signups the player gets. To claim that it is not likely that a player will win it inferrs that the odds are unfairly stacked against them by way of CCP holding a significant number of raffle tickets and the prize not being given out in this case. I'd like to believe this isn't true and so I'll repeat - the chance of winning is directly proportional to the number of tickets purchased. It's impossible to claim the chance of winning will be negligible in a raffle system where someone always wins without knowing what percentage of tickets they hold, which is up to the player. 4. Given that you've admitted you understand it is abusable, could you describe the system sin place to prevent abuse? Is there any system in place to detect 100 random eve characters signing up alts under their own buddy links for one raffle ticket each and then splitting the prize? So while the risk of being banned is real, there are no conditions set down under which this will occur, neither is there a mechnanism in place that can reliably track infractions. Threat of ban is nothing without the ability to follow through in at least enough cases to set an example. 5. It's not 1B. It's a 1.5-2B ship fitted with faction modules. That'll reach 3B+ at auction. And while you wouldn't want to risk a game acount on a game for that, some eve players invariably will. 6. This is an itneresting point and I'm aware you're privy to information that I am not. Given a basic economic model of Eve, I can't see how it wouldn't devalue the item to a significant extent. If you could pull some statistics out of your magic hat to back that up such as the number entering the game per month, the number leaving het game per month, the number currently in game and the price changes over the period since release to current, that would be conclusive and debunk my main point. Which I must admit, I'd be pleased to see because it would belay most of my fears about the system. This is too long, I'll go onto a second post.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:00:00 - [58] lol @ Dark Shikari TEH SKY IS FALLYING :O PS: Navy Mega in Gehi would be fine ;\| Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:01:00 - [59] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 21:03:18 Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 20:55:32 Wait a minute, its a raffle, not "the person with the most wins"? That is fine by me. Good idea, actually /never actually realized it was going to be luck based... this isn't bad at all... Due to the huge number of buddy accounts being sent out, that means it probably won't end up like Earth and Beyond, as the chance will be low enough to discourage that sort of conduct. Of course not, that would be too abuseable Seems like this might be like the drone changes. It seems ridiculous at first, but a lot of the major problems with it are simply superficial. Considering the 8 faction-fitted battleships given out for COLOSSUS (IIRC), I don't think that 1 a month would be too bad for the economy. And of course implants, once put on, can't be traded. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
HAMTRONIX	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:02:00 - [60] So all 15 of the people in this thread think it's a bad idea then it must be. Feel free to quit, go out on your own and start your own MMOG and make whatever rules you want. You can't make everybody happy all the time, and in this case as oveur has already stated this is a drop in the damn bucket. If this brings more people into the game thus more revenues why would you not do it. Some of you guys really amaze me with your "The sky is falling attitudes" get over it. As far as the guys who went to fanfest and giving their pics for in game items, thats cool too, they went, they participated, they had a blast and as a result they may get something cool. Why on earth do you care? It's always the same 20 guys whining about EVERYTHING!

Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:05:00 - [61] Originally by: HAMTRONIX So all 15 of the people in this thread think it's a bad idea then it must be. Feel free to quit, go out on your own and start your own MMOG and make whatever rules you want. You can't make everybody happy all the time, and in this case as oveur has already stated this is a drop in the damn bucket. If this brings more people into the game thus more revenues why would you not do it. Some of you guys really amaze me with your "The sky is falling attitudes" get over it. As far as the guys who went to fanfest and giving their pics for in game items, thats cool too, they went, they participated, they had a blast and as a result they may get something cool. Why on earth do you care? It's always the same 20 guys whining about EVERYTHING! I find it extremely funny when people make long-winded rants, whining about how people are whining. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:08:00 - [62] I feel ignored :(.
fairimear	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:10:00 - [63] agreed, rewards are good for out of game work but not in the form of ships, mod, isk, skill or anything that give a advantage ingame. i think the sloution does indeed lie in out of game reward such as items from the eve shop and in future maybe special editions of the EVE CCG and the ingame ranking and medal system. Please resize your signature image, the filesize limit is 24,000 bytes - Imaran
Nafri	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:23:00 - [64] I also dont like the idea of faction BS atm thy are the biggest thing you can personally own in Eve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscription canceled
Ashis	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:26:00 - [65] Originally by: Oveur My opinion is that giving an item which has no value is not an incentive. It surely was not the reason for buying those packs there. Then I understand why you would want to give out items of value. BUT please permit me to explain my view on this point. It boils down to this - ISK is not the only reward that we can assign value to in the world of EvE. Sure, some players will place ISK as the most valuable asset in the game much like some players will place money as having the highest value in real life, but it is by far not the only motivational force. I played Everquest for 4 years (I'm sorry, I'm feeling much better now) so of course some of these are from there (examples from what I know). My point isn't to say that it is a better game, just to point out that cosmetic rewards are powerful motivators: - EQ instituted a very early dye-armor feature that allowed people to change the tinting of their armour - it was incredibly popular and did not by any means change the value of your armour, or it's effectiveness. - In all games I have connected with, Character portraits have no bearing at all on a players worth or effectivness, and they are often lauded as one of the key points that players look at when deciding to play a new MMO. - EQ2 and WOW, as you have already brought up, have pets with no value whatsoever which in part motivated players to buy the special edition of the game. - Titles in EQ were given at different levels, and for different successes, and there was an intricate title system that inspired me personally to play the game more. - Player housing in EQ2 has no value whatsoever, but players in that game spend huge amounts of money on them (at least, they didn't when they started, I'h hearing conflicting reports that they might serve a purpose now). - CCP seems to recognize that ISK isn't the only motavational force as well with the consideration of medals in upcoming patches. What a great addition! My point is that there are many ways that you can advance in EvE, and not all of them are tied to ISK, and all of them are motivational (to differing degrees to all players). How many players would be motivaited to take on an "Epic Level" mission in Eve if it meant they could have a Jove as their character picture? How many players would be motivated to recruit people in to the game if it meant they would have their name plastered on those video terminals next to gates for a month, with a big thank you next to it? I don't have the answers to these - you obviously have a better idea then I do - all I am saying is that to throw money at characters for out of game successes breaks the immersion of the game; it seems as though it is a quick fix to something that could be truly immersive. Again, this isn't a make it or break it point for me, and the fear by continuing a discussion in a thread for too long is that people will misinterpret the severity of the issue - it's not a serious issue. But, issues with economy being effected and such aside, the game immersion is effected by crossing the line between in and out of game reward. Maybe to Oveur and many players that immersion isn't as important, maybe to others like me it is. In either case I don't think anyone here wants to detract from the motivation of recruiting players in to the game (or whatever other contest there is). Speaking for myself, I would just hope that this motavation is done in a way that retains the consistency of immersion that I have come to expect in this phenomenal game. So just some food for thought when you Devs are all sitting around having a beer at some point - thanks for your consideration and time! Cheers __________
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:32:00 - [66] Oveur, I want a hug.

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:34:00 - [67] Originally by: Nyphur Oveur, I want a hug. /me hugs Nyphyr This signature is brought to you by MC


Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:36:00 - [68] Originally by: Ashis Originally by: Oveur My opinion is that giving an item which has no value is not an incentive. It surely was not the reason for buying those packs there. Then I understand why you would want to give out items of value. BUT please permit me to explain my view on this point. It boils down to this - ISK is not the only reward that we can assign value to in the world of EvE. Sure, some players will place ISK as the most valuable asset in the game much like some players will place money as having the highest value in real life, but it is by far not the only motivational force. I played Everquest for 4 years (I'm sorry, I'm feeling much better now) so of course some of these are from there (examples from what I know). My point isn't to say that it is a better game, just to point out that cosmetic rewards are powerful motivators: - EQ instituted a very early dye-armor feature that allowed people to change the tinting of their armour - it was incredibly popular and did not by any means change the value of your armour, or it's effectiveness. - In all games I have connected with, Character portraits have no bearing at all on a players worth or effectivness, and they are often lauded as one of the key points that players look at when deciding to play a new MMO. - EQ2 and WOW, as you have already brought up, have pets with no value whatsoever which in part motivated players to buy the special edition of the game. - Titles in EQ were given at different levels, and for different successes, and there was an intricate title system that inspired me personally to play the game more. - Player housing in EQ2 has no value whatsoever, but players in that game spend huge amounts of money on them (at least, they didn't when they started, I'h hearing conflicting reports that they might serve a purpose now). - CCP seems to recognize that ISK isn't the only motavational force as well with the consideration of medals in upcoming patches. What a great addition! My point is that there are many ways that you can advance in EvE, and not all of them are tied to ISK, and all of them are motivational (to differing degrees to all players). How many players would be motivaited to take on an "Epic Level" mission in Eve if it meant they could have a Jove as their character picture? How many players would be motivated to recruit people in to the game if it meant they would have their name plastered on those video terminals next to gates for a month, with a big thank you next to it? I don't have the answers to these - you obviously have a better idea then I do - all I am saying is that to throw money at characters for out of game successes breaks the immersion of the game; it seems as though it is a quick fix to something that could be truly immersive. Again, this isn't a make it or break it point for me, and the fear by continuing a discussion in a thread for too long is that people will misinterpret the severity of the issue - it's not a serious issue. But, issues with economy being effected and such aside, the game immersion is effected by crossing the line between in and out of game reward. Maybe to Oveur and many players that immersion isn't as important, maybe to others like me it is. In either case I don't think anyone here wants to detract from the motivation of recruiting players in to the game (or whatever other contest there is). Speaking for myself, I would just hope that this motavation is done in a way that retains the consistency of immersion that I have come to expect in this phenomenal game. So just some food for thought when you Devs are all sitting around having a beer at some point - thanks for your consideration and time! Cheers I perfectly understand your worries, that's why we severely limit the occasions where we give in-game stuff for oog activity. This signature is brought to you by MC

Samurai Pumpkin	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:40:00 - [69] Could you guys take it easy on the Dev's? I mean sometimes it seems like some of you are directly attacking him personally whereas his main forte is DEVelping a game and not marketing it. I'm sure that he's just putting in his two cents and trying to clear things up. Ease up before we have 1 less Dev working on Eve okay? begs
fairimear	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:51:00 - [70] Edited by: fairimear on 05/11/2005 21:54:02 we all love oveur, even more for acknoliging our concerns in the thread. Please resize your signature image, the filesize limit is 24,000 bytes - Imaran

Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:51:00 - [71] Edited by: Nyphur on 05/11/2005 21:52:06 Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Nyphur Oveur, I want a hug. /me hugs Nyphyr You spelled it wrong >:\|. EDIT: But yeah, I'm convinced. Good job, I'm not often easy to convince ^^.
Cryten Jones	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:54:00 - [72] /me LOL's at this thread Rant, worry, winge and shout Read the actual text \o/ good idea..... Seriously, if this was Sony, EA or blizard(?) they would just have done it, how about asking questions BEFORE shouting. -CJ -------------------- I am reborn, reap the whirlwind--------------------
Elenia Kheynes	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:54:00 - [73] When do we get faction dreadnoughs btw ? Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
Prince Asmodai	Posted - 2005.11.05 21:57:00 - [74] I think its safe to say...that IF they give one ship away a month....12 fully loaded UBER ships in a span of a YEAR should not be a problem for ANYONE. I mean seriously. You people are Freaking out about 12 ships over a year. One ship a month...Does that really hurt the feelings of the people who are actually TRYING to get these ships. They are prolly too busy playin the damn game to realize they got a chance once a month for one. Oh yea...if you're gettin your feelings hurt...its time to take a break from the game. lol This is supposed to be fun. Quit *****in and have some fun. OMGWTFBBQPWN.... personally I could give a damn bout some UBER ships. I'm still trying to get out of the first couple months of TRAINING CRAP so I can PvP effectively. If anything...speed my training up...lol a week worth speed x2 multiplier on ALL skills should help...woot
Mikhael Hishadartha	Posted - 2005.11.05 22:06:00 - [75] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn
Prince Asmodai	Posted - 2005.11.05 22:08:00 - [76] Bah sorry...just wanted to say also..Ive Played NOVALOGIC(NOLOGIC) FPS games for the past 5 years..and watched that company have almost NO interaction with the customer. Its Great and Greatly appreciated to see the guys on the forums and in game for all the BS they get from the whiners...Props to ya CCP. Youre doin a fine job...Keep going
Mikhael Hishadartha	Posted - 2005.11.05 22:13:00 - [77] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn Except that this giveaway has all the elements of a true lottery- prize, chance, and consideration. As soon as RL money is exchanged, in this case the subscription fee, it falls under the incredibly strict state and federal laws regarding lotteries and games of chance here in the US. I suspect other countries have equally strict rules. Just sayin'
Khatred	Posted - 2005.11.05 22:25:00 - [78] I think it's not quite right. Let me explain: In the ideal situation is that I am trying to convince a friend to sign up for Eve, tell him about the game, take him trough the basics, send him the key, help him a bit, etc. .That's the ideal use of the buddy program, not quickly signing up an alt account. Now according to a statement (more like a joke actualy) made by Oveur a while ago, 1 billion isk is a push of a button for him (actualy I assume it's a command line but anyway ) In conclusion that's what looks wrong to me. You do the work to try and convice somebody to sign up and the prize is actualy worthless. Push button, there you go Navy Raven . ________________________________________________ The narrow minded and selfish people posting on EO forums made me bitter
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.11.05 22:26:00 - [79] What about macroers who create 15 accounts (Lets say from diffrent ips if theyre half smart) and end up winning 5 bill isk with the ship and fitting because theres no real way the system could figure out it was one guy. Wouldnt CCP just have handed them another extra 5 bill to ebay? With amount of macrominers you see these days and the amounts that get banned & recreated they might be quite a big contenders for winning with the buddy trials. Of course not a reason to change the system, but i do hope your security system takes things like these into account ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Prince Asmodai	Posted - 2005.11.05 22:32:00 - [80] I thought it had to be reported if the winnings are over like 600 USD...or something like that...lol

Sadist	Posted - 2005.11.05 22:41:00 - [81] Originally by: Nafri I also dont like the idea of faction BS atm thy are the biggest thing you can personally own in Eve Dread with faction modules is more expensive. And definitely BIGGER. --------------- VIP member of the [23] Sadist - harsh to the idiots, kind to the smart
Heinky	Posted - 2005.11.05 22:46:00 - [82] I see alot of good things about this. 1. More players enter the game and months later become my victem. 2.More faction ships to blow up ( its getting boring blowing up all those machierls (spelling) ). 3.People that try to abuse it are giving ccp more money to make the game better. 4. people will really start dragging their friends out of the boring game that is WOW. Fully faction fitted faction battleship is worth around 3-4b and that is nothing compered to the money flow in eve. A single person will be happy for some time , 3-4b is not hard to spend. ps: isk does not buy your char skillpoints or reputation, isk is a delution!!!!
Nafri	Posted - 2005.11.05 22:53:00 - [83] Originally by: Sadist Originally by: Nafri I also dont like the idea of faction BS atm thy are the biggest thing you can personally own in Eve Dread with faction modules is more expensive. And definitely BIGGER. Not really, since there is no faction capital stuff so alone with launchers/booster and so on you easily come out more expansive then a dread -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscription canceled
Khatred	Posted - 2005.11.05 22:58:00 - [84] Originally by: Heinky ps: isk does not buy your char skillpoints or reputation, isk is a delution!!!! Isk bought my reputation! ________________________________________________ The narrow minded and selfish people posting on EO forums made me bitter
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.11.05 23:27:00 - [85] i think its wrong because this system wasn't in place 6 months ago. if it was, i'd have several tickets. so please, go back and include them and i'll take a navy raven in niyabainen if your offering make me a sig! Now 75mil of prizes! ends at midnight on tuesday morning This Zig. For great justice!
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.11.05 23:28:00 - [86] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Nyphur Oveur, I want a hug. /me hugs Nyphyr omg dev favouritism hax! how come i don't get a make me a sig! Now 75mil of prizes! ends at midnight on tuesday morning This Zig. For great justice!
Paddy Murphy	Posted - 2005.11.05 23:45:00 - [87] Edited by: Paddy Murphy on 05/11/2005 23:46:50 Edited by: Paddy Murphy on 05/11/2005 23:45:54 Considerin gall that I have heard from various people, I am still leery of the idea of offering IG rewards for OOG activity. The lottery makes it harder to abuse, not impossible. I am aware that 5bil is not a huge ammount considering how much isk flows in EvE. I am likewise aware that faction ships are created from agent offers at a pace that is likely to exceed this proposed CCP once a month thing. I still do not like the idea. Why not hold off til the patch and give the person who wins a special medal or something? Or allow them to alter their character portrait in a manner they choose? I believe someone earlier in this thread suggested having a person's name flashed on the CONCORD billboards. All of these rewards are acceptable because, while they do not hold any value in terms of ISK, they are damn cool. I would also suggest the option of repainting a ship, but I know this would create a nightmare for the Devs and, even worse, create lag. As a possible alternative, why not let someone decorate their hangar at a station of their choice? I know I wouldn't mind having a huge poster depicting something cool (like a movie ad for the latest Gallente action flick) hanging just in front of my***pit as I await my latest cargo. EDIT: wtf is wrong with the word "cockpit"? EDIT: OK, I can say "damn" but "cockpit" gets censored???!! *
Dakath	Posted - 2005.11.05 23:50:00 - [88] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Those events were not fair to those that couldnt get to the fanfest. Someone told you life was fair? Hunt him down and pod-kill his lying self. 1000 baby bunnies were slow-roasted alive to create this signature line. We Hate Bunny
Wanoah	Posted - 2005.11.06 00:07:00 - [89] Edited by: Wanoah on 06/11/2005 00:08:48 I agree with the OP...it seems like the thin end of the wedge to me. It doesn't affect me personally in any way at all, and if someone gets some great stuff then more power to them. Nonetheless, it's the principle that's wrong. I'm also a hypocrite. Hypocrisy. Earning in-game items and selling them for RL cash? Bad. Spending real life cash to get ISK? Bad. Or not...because I just spent $20 recently and got 800 million ISK entirely legitimately by auctioning an unwanted (but not unloved, heh) character. OK, so spend some RL cash and head to Iceland for the FF and take part in a tournament and winning in-game stuff. Sounds OK to me, but hang on a second; did the tournament take place on Tranquility? Or on a special server? Hmm. Then there's the idea of a separate Chinese server and an acceptance of a cultural difference that will allow the trading of game items for RL cash. I call the 'cultural difference' BS, actually: fact is a hell of a lot of people outside of Asia culturally find this sort of thing acceptable too. What I'm getting at here, in my hamfisted way, is that we're getting mixed messages. You need absolutes with this sort of thing otherwise the EULA becomes a set of suggestions that can be entirely arbitrarily enforced according to someone's whim on any given day. Either trading in-game stuff for RL cash/endeavours is bad, or it isn't. When you have a mixed approach, it completely undermines the argument for stopping people selling stuff on Ebay or wherever. Personally, as long as people who cheat, exploit, and macro are smacked down hard, I couldn't care less whether people buy ISK, faction ships or new characters. CCP currently disagree, which is obviously up to them - "your game, man," but it looks to me like they are stepping on their point or undermining their position. Or maybe this is a plan to gradually get the playerbase to accept the trading of game items for cash in the long term? Hmm, conspiracy theory! We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at stars. (Sig best viewed with Firefox)
Drilla	Posted - 2005.11.06 00:26:00 - [90] Oveur/other devs/CCP employees If you take into account ALL the subsriptions you have gotten through the buddyprogram since it started - THEN it's okay. But suddenly giving away billions worth of gear to people who didn't lift a finger for you since you started the program is just plain wrong. You really want to send the message - stop caring about EVE or CCP then we will reward you? Because that's what you are doing - I've gotten over 20 people to play eve, some through the buddy program and NOW you want to reward the people who couldn't care when it was something you did for EVE and/or CCP because you love the game? I simply cant belive you didn't think this through P.S. Your examples of WoW and EQ2 things you get with the collecters version are all things that have none, nada, zero, zip impact on the game or your experience of it. To compare what you can give is a special avatar portrait or something, as it has the same effect. Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost!

Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.11.06 00:31:00 - [91] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 06/11/2005 00:32:50 My opinion, which is of course the golden word of god: - Pirate implants are a dandy reward. - Pirate battleships are a dandy reward also. - Pirate battleships rammed to the nipples with priceless gear is going a little overboard. Folks are gonna be happy if they get something for free either way, but it doesn't have to be something that good. As someone who's sent out a goddamn ton of buddy invites, I declare it so.
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.06 00:43:00 - [92] What's the point of having a EULA if CCP just ignore it when it suits them. What sort of example does it set? Here is a list of the things you aren't allowed to do, but if we want to do them selectively for some players we can... In-game prizes for out-of-game actions = bad (well, if they have value) If you must give people something, give them a pink "Eris loves me" shuttle which is non-transferable. Then again, this slow move to "real world" being more able to influence the game is hardly surprising anymore ... the legal loophole allowing buying ISK for cash was clearly the start of something more pervasive. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.06 00:51:00 - [93] Originally by: Avon What's the point of having a EULA if CCP just ignore it when it suits them. What sort of example does it set? Here is a list of the things you aren't allowed to do, but if we want to do them selectively for some players we can... In-game prizes for out-of-game actions = bad (well, if they have value) If you must give people something, give them a pink "Eris loves me" shuttle which is non-transferable. Then again, this slow move to "real world" being more able to influence the game is hardly surprising anymore ... the legal loophole allowing buying ISK for cash was clearly the start of something more pervasive. (Reluctantly) agrees with Avon. (Reluctant cause I never argree with Avon :P)
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2005.11.06 01:00:00 - [94] If you feel you have to give the winner something "in game" of immense value then give the winner 1 mil SPs in a skill of their choice. That's not worth isk and not transferable (unless of course the person decides to auction the character) and directly benefits the winner only. Otherwise, anything that impacts the in game system for OOG activity is bad IMO. For this type of actions I honestly think that a OOG reward would be more fitting though, i.e. EVE Mug, Poster, T-Shirt, etc.. -- Intergalactic Teeth Pullers "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Amthrianius	Posted - 2005.11.06 01:23:00 - [95] Worst idea EVER CCP ---------------
infused	Posted - 2005.11.06 01:25:00 - [96] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/11/2005 19:52:40 Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn The problem is that you're giving out things worth 5b+ easily (the faction BSs in particular). This means that it becomes "profitable" to start using hoards of alt accounts to claim victory each month. A Bhaalgorn would actually be fine. The fully-kitted faction uberships, though, are worth a huge amount Dude, they actually have to sign up, IE pay money. So the alt idea is non existant.
General Dahak	Posted - 2005.11.06 02:07:00 - [97] Originally by: Avon What's the point of having a EULA if CCP just ignore it when it suits them. EULA = End User Licence Agreement. I repeat in case you don't get it. End User License Agrement. One more time. End USER License Agreement. We are the users. This is the rules we as users have to read and understand. It's CCP's game they can do whatever they want to do. If someone gets a 5 bil ship it doesent affect me at all. If this can get more people to play a wonderful game it's a good thing. People sitting at complexes and farming factionstuff for billions every day doesent affect me at all. I do my stuff as all others in this game do. There are pepole sitting on Tech2 BPO's that make billions of isk every day. Are they selling isk on Ebay? I don't know. But i know that they affect this game way beyond some lucky guy that gets a nice ship for recruting new players.
KentachiSamurai	Posted - 2005.11.06 02:07:00 - [98] I don't post alot, but this is a scary revelation. I was unhappy with adverts for Fanfest and E-ON at game startup, but ingame rewards for out of game actions really doesn't ring right. ... as the poster suggested a signed piece of concept art I could appriciate.
Galk	Posted - 2005.11.06 02:25:00 - [99] I think Wanoah totally nailed it on the head tbh. Everything is allways a very inconsistant message, ive argued these points many times with all levels of moderation in private, and often been vocal on the board. Often, and this just about relates to every issue ive had with ccp and their suport staff, they fail to see the concequences of their actions, as Wanoah has pointed out. My view.. i don't, and never will like the concept of anything going into the game the negates the need to earn it in the game, no matter what it's value, it's the principle behind it. CCPs view judging by ouvers posts seems to be that, these are minimal give aways. We only give one or two away every month in the sea of 70000 odd thousand players.. whats the problem (very laymans terms i know). It's hard to disagree with that, but people will, mainly id imagine because they shared your dream for the game. This forum is full of people that scream risk v's reward constantly.. everything earned by grinding your fingers to the bone, when and if your going to do this, what i think is that ideal flys out the window. It's a quick buck in a way, the idealists you bread will never enjoy that concept. ----------- When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
Tehel Necrona	Posted - 2005.11.06 03:06:00 - [100] I haven't read this thread fully, and i am drunk atm... but... a good example of rewarding an Out Of Game effort by a member has alrdy been seen, didn't u reward Zond3 for his efforts and the eve never fades trailer with a nice new PC ? that's how out of game efforts should be rewarded IMO ingame efforts should be rewarded with ingame stuff when i raced my arse off in the collossus race i didn't expect to get a prize of real cash or a new PC so why should it work the other way round ? sort it out

Doc Brown	Posted - 2005.11.06 03:14:00 - [101] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn Just because other people do it and have done it for years does not change the fact that it's a very wrong idea. Effectivly you're letting people BUY in game items with cash, though I'm pretty sure that this is against the EULA. _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Ankanos	Posted - 2005.11.06 03:35:00 - [102] my 2ó the faction BS is too much. they are very special and require some major effort to earn and make for some serious, well earned braggin rights. offering them for just sending out a few emails i feel, diminishes that a bit.. -how about just a regular BS with the best named Meta's? imho, faction bs's are far too sweet of an item to get just for getting people to sign up. the implants and HAC's are more than enough to make the program appealing.. on slightly more unrelated (personal) slant.. at this point in the game, i dont even think you should even have what appears to be a another good way to increase the Eve population even more.. if only because due to the recent population explosion from that eve trailer amongst other reasons, you are increasing the player base far faster than your planned hardware upgrades.. -which causes you to do some really lousy things like ahem kill drone fun factor and versatilty. -due in part because of the current hardware straining to support 70k+ subs and 17k players logged in.. sometimes i really wish you never hired those proper suits for marketing & accounting.. -but i digress. -ank ---
SengH	Posted - 2005.11.06 03:41:00 - [103] how about just giving out novelty items instead like the opus luxury yatch.. its not like you can actually do anything with it besides taking it out for a spin.
Punktious	Posted - 2005.11.06 04:34:00 - [104] oh noes, I do not have any friends.... to invite to Eve... Is is not fair, and that is why nobody is allowed to receive awards and ingame prices.. Comon people, when did you all, get so small ish??? jealous sons of *****es.. :P ---------------------------- Bathing in cold water is, just like hitting yourself in the head.... nice when you stop doing it.
Zoidberg ENB	Posted - 2005.11.06 04:42:00 - [105] Edited by: Zoidberg ENB on 06/11/2005 04:44:06 Originally by: Punktious oh noes, I do not have any friends.... to invite to Eve... Is is not fair, and that is why nobody is allowed to receive awards and ingame prices.. Comon people, when did you all, get so small ish??? jealous sons of ****es.. :P It's not that. The reason people are upset is because having friends is an out of game* thing. Please, tell me why something out of game should influence something in game? And most people would probably love a signed poster or t-shirt. If I got people to buy Monopoly boards, should Hasbro give me free Monopoly money?
Driven	Posted - 2005.11.06 04:45:00 - [106] Allow me to weigh in: In-game prizes given out by CCP for out-of-game actions is unmitigated B.S. I guess because I don't sign up a ton of alts or fly to Iceland, I'm just out of luck. Don't buy or sell anything in-game for out of game reward. Fine. Thats the rule. OK. Except it isn't is it, whenever they say so. Oh. I see. To those of us who have complained in this thread I can predict the response: "We regret any inconvenience our arbitrary decision may have caused you. If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to contact us again. We'll do all we can to help". Poetic justice will be that the guy who wins the faction ship loses it when he CTD's in a complex and can't log back in.
D'an Y'eal	Posted - 2005.11.06 05:09:00 - [107] Let's clear up a few points: 1. IG rewards for OOG actions is bad. 2. CCP wanting to reward people for participating in the buddy program is good. 3. CCP can "break" their own EULA, but it sets a bad example. 4. People who complain about this are not necesarily "jealous" or affected by this directly, it is the principle of point #1 that get them bothered. 5. Everyone reading this likes EVE and want the best for their game (sorry the carebear in me had to post that)
Trevedian	Posted - 2005.11.06 05:12:00 - [108] Edited by: Trevedian on 06/11/2005 05:13:14 Wahhhhhh! CCP can't win, no matter what they do ppl will whine... Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Zoidberg ENB	Posted - 2005.11.06 05:33:00 - [109] Originally by: Trevedian Edited by: Trevedian on 06/11/2005 05:13:14 Wahhhhhh! CCP can't win, no matter what they do ppl will whine... It's not like we're trying to sabotage what otherwise is a good idea. And I haven't see anything but constructive criticism in this thread. I haven't seen much whining at all.
Ricdic	Posted - 2005.11.06 06:43:00 - [110] I am coming up to 2 years in this game. I have spent my entire time trying to get a foothold, and go down as somewhat of a legend. Whether it be Crazy Pirate (Tank-CEO), Insane Nutjob (Ginger Magician), Suicide Kestrel Squad Leader (Big Doggy) or Industrialist Tycoon (Dr. Scope). All of these people have created names and reputations for themselves. Some have done it with the use of isk, while others have done so using brains, and tactics. Others have done so with stupidity. Raffle or not, you are giving a person an opportunity to get a foothold that far exceeds the general population. Imagine a 3 week old wins the prize, sells his gear for 3.5 billion, and buys into t2 bpo's. Within 3 months he is a multi-billionaire. Within 1 year he holds the deeds to the biggest alliance in Eve. Within 2 years, his alliance grows to a size where they conquer all other Alliances, and all 0.0 is owned by the one. A person with a 3 billion isk boost has the power to mould his cash into a lot more cash. So while this noob gets the 3 billion, and begins his empire from there, us 2 year old players sit back and sigh, while still working our asses off for hours on end. I dont understand why a complete new ship mould couldnt be designed. IE The winner gets a megathron, except that it has the wings of a raven, and his corp name/logo on it. Anyway, I have signed up about 4 people to the game since the start time, so if I win the competition, my oath to all of the Eve Forum *****s, is that my Caldari Navy Raven with faction mods will be used to declare war on Concord. ------------------------------------------ Dreadnought Production INC is recruiting Join DPI Channel Or Visit (IGB) http://www.mmorpg-online.net/intro.html

Ricdic	Posted - 2005.11.06 06:47:00 - [111] And in case it doesnt seem obvious by my last post, I think the R&D lottery system is a joke too. But thats a whole different thread. ------------------------------------------ Dreadnought Production INC is recruiting Join DPI Channel Or Visit (IGB) http://www.mmorpg-online.net/intro.html
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.06 08:08:00 - [112] Quote: ...amongst 5-10K tickets... That's really all I wanted to know Oveur. Altho I'd hope you're not overreaching here btw. 5-10K new (paying) subs from buddy accounts alone would mean at least 10K new subs per month. 10K new subs per month would have had us over the 70K active subs by now would they not ? I mean, that would have had us well over 70K based on 2005 alone so far... And here we get to hear that there's about 77K active subs now, of which 25% have been started aroudn release of the game... It doesn't quite tally up, does it ? Anyway, aside from your numerical prowess I'd say that having 5K entries into that lottery each month would sufficiently guarantee that it's not being influenced by some nutjob with a wallet. So go ahead, it's still wrong tho, but only based on principle then.
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.06 08:35:00 - [113] Edited by: Avon on 06/11/2005 08:35:35 Originally by: Marcus Aurelius So go ahead, it's still wrong tho, but only based on principle then. Actually, this is the bit that scares me. If CCP are willing to compromise their principles (or at least what they have led us to think were their principles) for $$, so long as it only breaks the game a little bit at a time, what's next? ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Heritor	Posted - 2005.11.06 08:46:00 - [114] The rewarding of in game items for out of game achievements is not sometihing I personally like to hear of. I imagine thats the powers that be and many of the community understand that it will not really have any effect on the in game economy and so not a big problem. I have introduced many of my friends to this game and most have stopped and love it. The reward for me is chatting and having fun with my buddies...no amount of faction ships will replace that. I think I can speak for the majority of the comunity when I say you do not need to reward me (although feel free to post me a nice signed piccy) or any other members to promote the game to me and their friends if anything like me its already been done ps. I need to find more friends to spread the word
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2005.11.06 09:33:00 - [115] /me chants for more OOG rewards and hopes CCP will hurry up and allow eBay sales too MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Dak Hakin	Posted - 2005.11.06 11:23:00 - [116] On that note, I hereby open my wallet to 1 million, 100 million, or 500 million isk gifts _______________________________________________ If you fear the thorn, do not crave the rose
Khatred	Posted - 2005.11.06 11:32:00 - [117] And on a site note I think the best prize for the "buddy thingy" would be Eve Time Cards. ________________________________________________ The narrow minded and selfish people posting on EO forums made me bitter
Olza Harp	Posted - 2005.11.06 12:12:00 - [118] Edited by: Olza Harp on 06/11/2005 12:13:15 Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn Sry, Oveur - it is wrong. Yes, you (CCP) are not the first one in this area. Other companies did it already (with dying games!!!) The next step is to offer all items for money and special accounts with skilling 3 char in parallel and so on?! NO. Please don't do it.
So'Kar	Posted - 2005.11.06 12:36:00 - [119] Overreacting ftl So once per month there will be another guy with faction battleship? How much does that bother me? none Just like any other ship it can be lost so are implants lost when you get pod killed. Why would anyone buy multiple account just for the small change to win something like that. These items can be destroyed unlike in other games the reward is usually something permadently and sometimes permadently unbalancing like special skill or ability. I am sure it will make happy the guy who get the kill mail. Too bad you dont see implants lost too
Demetrius Carnigie	Posted - 2005.11.06 12:42:00 - [120] I will only condone this IF i win the battleship. Make it happen.

Bsport	Posted - 2005.11.06 12:47:00 - [121] i dont see anything wrong with it bth, it doesnt happen enough to make any difference ingame. --------
Kazender	Posted - 2005.11.06 12:49:00 - [122] I just have one question for Oveur ... Can u plz show me where in the EULA it says that having lots of accounts is an exploit or bannable offence? In fact at what figure exactly is lots?
Suze'Rain	Posted - 2005.11.06 12:49:00 - [123] I've seen this before, and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. as a gamer in the RPG and LRP industries for something approaching 20 years now, I've seen this sort of thin in societies and groups. players who've done stuff out-of game being rewarded with ingame goodies because of their actions. it never, ever sits easily with people, it brings resentment and annoyance. the only solution, personally, is that is should be "cosmetic" rewards (the custom paintjob with bomber art on the nose of their existing ship... a freebie option to remake their portrait, civillian ships that people can't buy elsewhere, etc), or oog rewards - a free copy of a book or that boxed tin, etc. Rewards I have no objection to, but the reward of IG for OOG action is unwise, I'd feel. And if you really feel otherwise, can I try a recruitment drive, and request one of those gallentean pleasure cruisers with full civillian fittings, just to be perverse :) ?
KIAHicks	Posted - 2005.11.06 12:54:00 - [124] Why not award people with FREE months of gameplay instead? If you're only awarding one prize every month thats at most 12 people each year that will win. So long as you get more than 12 signups in total via the system over that year you've broken even. If you expect many more sign ups than that, then you can increase the insentive to 2 free months or 6 months free game time. Whatever value used is just balanced against the number of overall new buddy system signups. Would I recommend my friends to play eve? Yes I already do. Would I give them a link to my buddy id if I could get free months of gameplay yes again. Sure I'll probably do the same with the faction bs. But imo an out of game reward should be given for out of game actions. I don't care if mr XYZ has helped eve and been rewarded with 3 months free game time, or 1 or 6 or whatever it ends up been. Although I do care a little that someone gets a free ship. Sure giving out these ships won't ruin eve, it probably won't even have any impact in game aside from annoying some customers. But why do it in the first place when there are other rewards you can give? I guess the bottom line is that its 0 cost for you to give away ingame items as opposed to losing out on x months subscription. Although getting x months free subscription would be a much bigger insentive imo. Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2005.11.06 13:03:00 - [125] oh... my... god Mai's Idealog
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.11.06 13:04:00 - [126] Giving away battleships doesn't cost CCP any revenue -_- I would prefer the gametime over the ship, but thats just me.
Aturo Rejin	Posted - 2005.11.06 13:06:00 - [127] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn I would rather take the signed poster. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/Aturo/siggreen-ViceCEO.jpg Maximum signature image filesize is 24000 bytes - Udat
Sean Drake	Posted - 2005.11.06 13:30:00 - [128] My only problem with this plan is if we get too many more players the servers are going to go the way of the dodo
D'lor	Posted - 2005.11.06 13:42:00 - [129] I've been a MMO player for a long time, like many other people here that have posted, and we have all had experiences in which this type of 'reward' was given, and in most cases with horrible results. In the case of handing out amazing ships and mods, i don't see as too much of a problem, many people have stated that it's more of a 'trinket' to keep in your bay and look at once in awhile, or a ship that will quite possibly be destroyed, and i also see no way whatsoever how giving away such a ship and mods can 'collapse' the economy that is EVE. This is what some people i think are trying to get across, and for the most part i tend to agree, here is my two cents, not a wine or rant, but a simple observation. CCP doing things that go against the EULA, that we accepted as the RULES AND CODE OF CONDUCT on EVE is wrong, and no amount of sugar-coating on their part can change that....."We can do it because it's our game....but you cannot because your just a 'player' along for the ride" is a poor way to do business. For the people on this post that claim otherwise, yes indeed it is CCP's game, however it's our business that keeps them around and were as much a part of it as they are and hence, have EVERY RIGHT to question the thing's we percieve as wrong on their part, you cannot run a game like this without people like us willing to pay for it, no money=no business. The other problem is CCP's desire to cram more and more people into EVE that they have decided to give out little rewards for people that can get other's (or many other's) to sign up, this in and of itself seems all well and good. I would much rather see them focus less on the people 'out there' and focus much, much more on the people that are paying for this game now, keep the people happy that are with you and believe me, they WILL spread the word on how CCP takes care of their customers, and other will follow, but instead they give out little, for lack of a better term, bribes to people to get others to join. CCP is a great company and EVE is a fantastic game, i see no reason whatsoever to stoop to such bribery to gain new customers, people were here long before the rewards program and people will continue to come here. The playing field should be level, without any kickback's for telling somebody how good something is.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.06 14:03:00 - [130] Originally by: Khatred And on a site note I think the best prize for the "buddy thingy" would be Eve Time Cards. Actually, this is a great idea. Make say 10 winners each month, and each winner wins a 3 month timecard that they can either use themselves or give to anyone else. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.

Temi	Posted - 2005.11.06 14:07:00 - [131] Originally by: Khatred Originally by: MOOstradamus /me chants for more OOG rewards and hopes CCP will hurry up and allow eBay sales too Actualy I don't think it's something fundamently wrong with Ebay sales or any other OOG involved IF and only IF macroing, duping and exploiting would be completely impossible. This is the classic case of Hipocrisy 4TW (and no, I don't mean you MOOstradamus). I don't think anyone will complain if some random player sends them 1 mil or 100 mil or 500 mil isk. I don't think anyone will complain if one dev opens convo with them and goes like "You know, I am bored, there you go, 1 navy raven for j00, w00t!" so what your saying, is that if im a multi billionaire in RL, i should be stupidly rich in eve too? Spelling errors ahoy..
Astarte Nosferatu	Posted - 2005.11.06 14:13:00 - [132] Again people with loads of cash out of game get another advantage ingame. Why hold back Ebaying? Why doesn't CCP set up a shop where you can buy everything ingame with RL cash. Ridiculous. ------------------------------------------ Member of the [23] Follower of the Blood Revolution. Sani Sabik.
Santiac	Posted - 2005.11.06 14:13:00 - [133] Edited by: Santiac on 06/11/2005 14:15:19 Somewhere, yeah i can understand where you are coming from, recenting people being awarded in-game awards for out-game actions. But to be perfectly honest, i don't mind it at all. I can see no difference as to recieving an in-game or outgame reward, i'm sorry but i think most of us in here would suddenly have forgotten all this recentment towards IG rewards for actions related to the game but carried out OG, the day that it's one of us being granted a faction ship of our own choice, for extraordinairy participation in events, in-game or out-game, that related to the fuzzy lovable EVE community. Personally, i think the line between "IG reward for OG actions" and vice verca, are a bit blurred right now. I still have to see an event that you can truly say is not in-game related, recieving an in-game reward. The recruitment drive, while it may be carried out out-game, it's connected to a feat affecting in-game. same goes for contests at the fanfest iirc. Either way the person recieving the reward obviously has to take a huge interest in the community surrounding EVE in either case As for the possibility of simply signing up more accounts on your own, wouldn't CCP simply check the subscription info on the new accounts, to see if they matched one of the old ones, or if multiple new accounts suddenly came in through the buddy system? p.s. Sorry if it's hard to read, just woke up ;\ ________________________________________ <insert clever/witty comment here>
Khatred	Posted - 2005.11.06 14:22:00 - [134] Originally by: Temi so what your saying, is that if im a multi billionaire in RL, i should be stupidly rich in eve too? Read carefuly what I wrote, I usualy choose my words very carefuly when talking about a sensitive topic. First is the "no macroing, duping, exploiting". I know it's likely impossible but that's the ideal. So in this ideal case, you have the same amount of rich people because if one rich guy (in game) sells to a poor guy (in game) for OOG means, now we have the former richer guy poor and the former poor guy rich. You still compete against one guy, just that the name changed. We also see people who quit Eve that sell their characters for isk and then transfer the isk to friends that stick with the game. _________________________________________
James Lyrus	Posted - 2005.11.06 14:24:00 - [135] I don't see a big deal for trading in game stuff, for out of game effort. Write a story for the news? Do some starbase design? Do some neato banners? Put together an 'in game asset' website? Write a really cool bit of fiction, or a chronical? I don't see a problem with an 'in game' reward. Prizes? Again, so what? It's a nice prize, but really, the sky ain't falling guys. It's an incentive to distribute buddy accounts. It's a raffle, so it's _not_ a question of buying faction ships for RL money. And if you _really_ go and sign up 50 accounts just to get several entries, well, tbh you probably deserve a higher chance of winning. If the deal ever becomes 'buy a million isk for some RL money' or 'buy a faction BS for RL money', or even a 'pints for isks' scheme _then_ i'll agree that there's a problem. But here, no. I don't think so. In game stuff as prizes for 'out of game' stuff I don't see a problem.
Khatred	Posted - 2005.11.06 14:25:00 - [136] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Again people with loads of cash out of game get another advantage ingame. Why hold back Ebaying? Why doesn't CCP set up a shop where you can buy everything ingame with RL cash. Ridiculous. That's actualy not good because those will be items and isk coming out of nowhere. That CAN hurt the game unless they make some very serious calculations and say like : "We CCP can sell 24,500,000 bil isk monthly as that figure will not affect the in game economy" _________________________________________
Sarkos	Posted - 2005.11.06 14:45:00 - [137] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn Funny how I have been in a large number of in-game events as the CEO of Oracle, from helping to prevent the assassination of Emperor Heideron, to fighting and dying alongside Ouria the Jovian against the Stain Empire, to aiding to erradicate the Tetrimon terrorists responsible for the deaths of many Minmatar children, yet though I have seen others in those events receive awads such as faction ships, neither I nor Oracle nor ANY Minmatar corporation received any awards in those events. Now I can invite a friend to join and can win a faction BS with uber mods??? I'll take a fully loaded Marachial please, 1400mm T2's will be great. Sarkos (Since Beta) Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
Gwenvahar	Posted - 2005.11.06 16:39:00 - [138] Originally by: The Sloth I don't know if it is just me who finds the concept of in-game rewards for out-of-game efforts rather unsettling. I may be strange, but I am of the belief that your efforts inside that should be rewarded inside the game, not your efforts outside the game. Twice recently I have seen the offer of in-game rewards for efforts outside the game - here and here. I can understand the fact that CCP want to reward people for thier out-of-game efforts regarding the promotion of Eve etc. However, I think that using 'unbalancing' in-game rewards to do so is simply the wrong path to take. Surely if CCP really want to reward people for their out-of-game efforts then they can offer them a subscription discount, some merchandise from the Eve Store or a signed piece of concept art that surely would not cost them too much and not have any effect at all on gameplay. Does anyone else agree? Nothing suprises me anymore about the inequity of many systems in EVE. There are long standing in game exploits that clearly reward far too well those who can take advantage. Like static NPC market order resets at downtime. For your examples.. it is sadly CCP's perogitive to give out free stuff to individuals. Such a practice can not be said to unbalance the game.. I am more concerned with IG corps who's only goal in life is to make IG stuff and ISK to sell it on e-bay for real cash... I hope those people burn in hell or otherwise have a truly pathetic and worthless life.
Ayane Vendre	Posted - 2005.11.06 17:00:00 - [139] Come on, what did people expect? I started when they implemented character transfers, and charged you real cash for it(cookie for anyone who can find the original post with the initial high price, before they suddenly discovered the price was wrong and all along it was really meant to be a cheaper price )
Shin Ra	Posted - 2005.11.06 17:12:00 - [140] There is nothing wrong with giving away stuff once every so often. Its not going to have any noticable effect on the economy. Remember the complaints about the big lottery at first? Nobody cares about it anymore. Its not going to effect the game in any way. If someone signs up 20 alt accounts (which by my understanding must be paid for), then they are a fool as buying the isk from ebay would be a lot cheaper.

So'Kar	Posted - 2005.11.06 17:23:00 - [141] Originally by: Sarkos I'll take a fully loaded Marachial please, 1400mm T2's will be great. I would check market for most expensive faction bs and ask officer modules with it and then sell all that and then buy couple Machariels.
Syris Aswell	Posted - 2005.11.06 17:25:00 - [142] Most people seem to agree that in-game rewards for out of game actions consitutes a violation of principle. Some seem to focus on the size of the prize as germane, but it does not matter if the lottery awarded a Basic Damage Control, the underlying debate remains the same. I submit that: 1. Eve attempts to draw a good back story for role playing. How do you fit these types of rewards into a role playing context? 2. This represents an inconsistent principle. To achieve consistency, make the choice to either allow out of game sales of items and characters or stop giving in game awards for all out of game lotteries, Fanfest attendance, etc. 3. Eve started on the concept that the players would determine how the game played out. Well, in this thread, they are talking. Let's debate the issue on the principle, not pariculars of prize size, etc.
Khatred	Posted - 2005.11.06 17:37:00 - [143] Originally by: Syris Aswell 3. Eve started on the concept that the players would determine how the game played out. Well, in this thread, they are talking. Let's debate the issue on the principle, not pariculars of prize size, etc. The vocal minority on the forums does NOT represent Eve players opinion. So unless there is like a voting poll when you enter the game..... _________________________________________
infused	Posted - 2005.11.06 18:08:00 - [144] Some people here have seriously lost the plot.
CopperTop	Posted - 2005.11.06 18:34:00 - [145] Hiya, Originally by: Oveur Would it be more encouraging to get a poster signed by a tard like me? (No) Some of us would love a poster signed by you!! cheers Copper
Drilla	Posted - 2005.11.06 19:02:00 - [146] As I said before - you are rewarding people who could give a rats a$$ when it was something you did for EVE/CCP for free. Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost!
Slink Grinsdikild	Posted - 2005.11.06 19:02:00 - [147] You just know that when CCP anounce the names of those who won, its going to be people with names like "ZDCJKDK12245" and "jgjvrksfr" Why not just call it the "Macromine and receive a free faction Battleship!" competition.
Glassback	Posted - 2005.11.06 19:05:00 - [148] I have no problems with this, infact why not go the whole way and give out Jove stuff for the hell of it.
Dukath	Posted - 2005.11.06 19:10:00 - [149] what scares me the most is that they are doing this at the same time they are taking things away from the game simply because the servers can't handle the current number of players. maybe they should put advertising on a low until they get the servers back under control?
Siri Danae	Posted - 2005.11.06 19:15:00 - [150] Originally by: Sarkos Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn Funny how I have been in a large number of in-game events as the CEO of Oracle, from helping to prevent the assassination of Emperor Heideron, to fighting and dying alongside Ouria the Jovian against the Stain Empire, to aiding to erradicate the Tetrimon terrorists responsible for the deaths of many Minmatar children, yet though I have seen others in those events receive awads such as faction ships, neither I nor Oracle nor ANY Minmatar corporation received any awards in those events. Now I can invite a friend to join and can win a faction BS with uber mods??? I'll take a fully loaded Marachial please, 1400mm T2's will be great. Sarkos (Since Beta) Are you saying there's something wrong with how in-game events are executed? You can't be saying that. Its simply impossible. I just want to say also that this statement: Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Ashis Of the items you listed above, the only ones that are in the game worlds are: - Ingame Pets - Paintings for a players house The others are essentially "signed posters." ... As for the EQ2 Pet, it is restricted to your housing, and has no effect on the game (Edit: That I can find). All of your examples seem to be cosmetic... My opinion is that giving an item which has no value is not an incentive. It surely was not the reason for buying those packs there. ...shows you really have no idea how scary EQ2 players can be. Some of the richest people in EQ2 early on were the carpenters, who made way, way too much platinum on useless furnature. People would take their gold and instead of uprading equipment, rent a 5 bedroom house just to show off their decorating skills. The (useless) Baby Dragons sold for more than any one piece of equipment on the market before people hit 50. It was terrifying. I came here looking for sanity. I didn't find it, but at least I'm not judged according to the value of the cats in my in-game apartment. ------ I generally assume the following: 1. 95% of Empire Carebears don't get 0.0 PVPers. 2. 95% of 0.0 PVPers don't get Empire Carebears. 3. 100% of Ore Thieves steal just to upset the Miners.

Lothendra	Posted - 2005.11.06 19:59:00 - [151] Now, what i would like more than anything else, would be a tech 2 box of jaffa cakes, in my hangar... icon and all oh, and quite possibly a jaffa cake bpo and a big pile of chocolate and "smashing orangey bit" to make them out of. That would be worth making 50 billion alts for but maybe i'm alone in this
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2005.11.06 20:44:00 - [152] Hmmm. It's a prize draw, that you (or your buddy) have to pay money in order to enter? Well that's illegal for certain in the UK, and I'm pretty sure it's illegal in a whole slew of other countries, so I'd take another think on this one. I'd hate to see EVE shut down because the developers made such a collosally stupid mistake as this. Celt Corp - members of ISS
Jenz	Posted - 2005.11.06 20:46:00 - [153] "No Purchase Necessary" I believe that's the usual get-out-clause they use.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.11.06 20:50:00 - [154] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Though possibly number 24 got moved up one place No, I didn't ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2005.11.06 21:18:00 - [155] /me also hopes that as well as allowing eBay to play a part in EVE the same sort of time restriction will soon be placed on Tranquility as will be inherent to Serenity It is totally unfair that unemployed people and students have a RL advantage because they have more time to play the game !! MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Drilla	Posted - 2005.11.06 21:59:00 - [156] I Denmark, what CCP is doing is illegal - just ask McDonalds, they got busted just last week. I wonder how the icelandic laws are on this. Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost!
StiZum Hilidii	Posted - 2005.11.06 22:23:00 - [157] worst idea you have ever had ccp STAN FACTA NON VERBA ALTS FTL
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2005.11.07 00:01:00 - [158] Don't see why people are getting worked up about this. But for what it's worth a fully kitted with commander gear faction BS is kinda overboard. PS. I want a poster signed by Oveur ! (oh wait I'm already getting one :D) http://eve.klaki.net/
infused	Posted - 2005.11.07 00:09:00 - [159] Edited by: infused on 07/11/2005 00:09:47 People have been asking for rewards for the buddy program for ages... so keep quiet :S edit: god dammit, someone just put a bounty on me.
Zoidberg ENB	Posted - 2005.11.07 00:15:00 - [160] How do you explain this from a role play persepctive? This game has tons of backstory, and can be great for role playing. This totally just ruins that whole element of the game. It's like you write a story and say the main character got a yacht from God because he converted someone to God's favorite religion. It's not realistic, and doesn't fit in with the story.

Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.07 01:14:00 - [161] Originally by: Zoidberg ENB How do you explain this from a role play persepctive? This game has tons of backstory, and can be great for role playing. This totally just ruins that whole element of the game. It's like you write a story and say the main character got a yacht from God because he converted someone to God's favorite religion. It's not realistic, and doesn't fit in with the story. Donation from some NPC corporation as a good will gift.
Rillian	Posted - 2005.11.07 01:29:00 - [162] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn intrinsicly no theres nothing wrong with this , yet how do you balance this? what about the other players in game that either don't know anyone or dont know people who like EVE , and lets not forget about all those others who already invited/told their friends and are currently playing before this announcement. the contest at the fanfest thats a cool thing but honestly this sign up lottery is a real slap in the face to most people you'r rewarding only part of the huge eve community not every one will be able to partcipate in this unless they either A) got a lot of friends that might be interested in joining eve ..or B) got insane amount of $$ to buy more accounts. so my question is how do you balance this? so people won't feel left out and alienated by CCP Oveur I only know of in game items being rewarded to in game activitys here in EVE besides the fanfest stuff (which I thought was a way cool idea) and no items being awarded to any out of game activitys
Kael D'mende	Posted - 2005.11.07 04:34:00 - [163] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn I would rather have a miniture figure of my chosen ship ;O) hehe (Muninn or Vaga in my case) <- want the addy Oveur ? lol :O) /Kael
Kingpenn	Posted - 2005.11.07 05:15:00 - [164] Lets get ready to ebay all we want too. CCP is setting the rules for out of game $ buying ingame items, so lets just sit back and join in on the fun of selling our in game items for RL $ and CCP can't say squat, after all, CCP is doing the very same! EBAY and EVE items, yep, sure thing... the answer is...42.
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.11.07 05:23:00 - [165] Originally by: Dukath what scares me the most is that they are doing this at the same time they are taking things away from the game simply because the servers can't handle the current number of players. maybe they should put advertising on a low until they get the servers back under control? I wonder if CCP are going to realise that ****ing off the old players who drive a lot of this marvelous "player created content" is a bad thing. Great more people who I can't fight because current battles are to laggy anyway. More people who get to enjoy less game as things are removed to reduce lag. And I heard the noise of thunder. And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him
Summersnow	Posted - 2005.11.07 05:37:00 - [166] Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn if I give an in game item out on ebay to someone for there out of game contribution you'd BAN MY ASS... Given that you're giving the chineese the green light to ***** out in game items for cash and are now doing it yourselves this really makes your anti-ebay policy hypocritical BS.
infused	Posted - 2005.11.07 05:48:00 - [167] Originally by: theRaptor Originally by: Dukath what scares me the most is that they are doing this at the same time they are taking things away from the game simply because the servers can't handle the current number of players. maybe they should put advertising on a low until they get the servers back under control? I wonder if CCP are going to realise that ****ing off the old players who drive a lot of this marvelous "player created content" is a bad thing. Great more people who I can't fight because current battles are to laggy anyway. More people who get to enjoy less game as things are removed to reduce lag. Stop being so god damm stupid. This isn't going to change anything. You just feel the need to whine whine whine... go play wow and whine with the rest of them.
Kingpenn	Posted - 2005.11.07 05:48:00 - [168] Originally by: Oveur I perfectly understand your worries, that's why we severely limit the occasions where we give in-game stuff for oog activity. and we will all limit how often we sell items on ebay...following the same presidence as you set ol'wise one...can't punish the players for doing what CCP is doing can you... the answer is...42.
infused	Posted - 2005.11.07 05:52:00 - [169] Originally by: Kingpenn Originally by: Oveur I perfectly understand your worries, that's why we severely limit the occasions where we give in-game stuff for oog activity. and we will all limit how often we sell items on ebay...following the same presidence as you set ol'wise one...can't punish the players for doing what CCP is doing can you... Get your facts right: You're selling something that belongs to CPP. CPP are rewarding referals with in game items, not real money. It's not going to effect the eco or anything. Can you see the difference?
Gwenvahar	Posted - 2005.11.07 06:00:00 - [170] Edited by: Gwenvahar on 07/11/2005 06:00:56 Originally by: Summersnow Originally by: Oveur There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the occasional in-game item for out-of-game activity. This has been happening for years in EVE and in other MMO's. This has got nothing to do with cost, we're simply givin what people what they want most. Sure, I can sign a poster and send it to them, but personally I'd much rather get a Bhaalgorn if I give an in game item out on ebay to someone for there out of game contribution you'd BAN MY ASS... Given that you're giving the chineese the green light to ***** out in game items for cash and are now doing it yourselves this really makes your anti-ebay policy hypocritical BS. No MMORPG has yet to stop ebay from taking responsability for the fact that it is their service which empowers and promotes the trend. ebay claims to cooperate with MMORPG companies by removing auctions when reported in most cases. However even going that far is a stretch because there is very little possibility of prosecution. The people who are on ebay making the offers are not stupid by any perspective. They know how to bend and abuse every regulation involved, they know how to conceal their identities very well, and when caught are not slowed down at all in their agendas through banning. For the selling IG items for RL cash, cry to ebay and otehr online services which promote the abuse, not CCP. For the giving out of free stuff to players by CCP, STFU and quit yer cryin. Theres no balance issue, and to say it vilolated some principle.. spare me.. CCP aparantly has been doing that from the begining in one aspect or another. No one can keep all the people happy all the time.

Scrammer	Posted - 2005.11.07 07:08:00 - [171] This is what CCP needs. ECLA (End Creator Liscense Agreement) There's only 1 section to this agreement. 1. We will always have the ability to completely, utterly, fully, wholesomly, satisfyingly, and uberduperstuberfinglemuppetipuddilingly pwn you, our game, and any items created/produced/traded/destroyed in our said game at any time...including pink Eris Loves Me complimentary shuttles & signed posters by Oveur "teh tard." 1a. We like pie. 87.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot
Teblin	Posted - 2005.11.07 07:25:00 - [172] This thread is going nowhere, so I'm locking it. The questions posed have been, to my mind, sufficiently answered by Oveur and yet are still popping up, a lot of them being posted by people who have not read oveur's explanatory posts. I'll summarise: The raffle is being held monthly with each person having a number of tickets equal to the number of buddy program free trial accounts they gave out who subsequently signed up to eve after the trial runs out. This means that each ticket equates to someone somwhere signing up for at least a month of eve. Buddy accounts which do not pay to subscribe will not be entered into the draw. This eliminates abuse as it will cost the perpetrator a lot of money to "buy" raffle tickets. If someone decides to go ahead and sign up a bunch of dummy accounts and shell out the hundreds of pounds required to get a few raffle tickets for the month, their chance of winning will be insubstantial because there are currently thousands of users per month who sign up to play eve after using a buddy program free trial account. Signing up alts will do nothing but waste your money. In the highly unlikely event that someone does sign up over ten thousand accounts at a cost of a hundred thousand pounds to pay for a month on each of them, he isn't guaranteed to win a prize but is almost guaranteed a game ban for it . Regardless of the amount of ISK these items are worth currently in-game, adding one more per month is also insignificant in the grand scheme of things because the number of these coming into the game per month through in-game means is very high. One more a month is not going to kill the economy or derail prices in the slightest. Only oveur knows how many enter the game per day and he assures us that it is a very large number. The benefits are that once a month, three account owners out of over seventy thousand will be surprised with something nice for introducing a friend to the game. They could introduce one friend or one hundred, it's still a raffle and winning is based entirely on chance. There is no way to rig or stack the raffle without spending several hundred thousand pounds. The most important benefit of this is that people have more incentive to introduce their friends to eve. More players means a larger, more involved gaming world and helps CCP push the limits of server technology. More players also means more money for CCP to spend on the development of the game and server technology to improve our gameplay. If you have any problems with this system, the forums is not the place to discuss it. Please send a mail to CCP (not to the forum mods, please) or perhaps raise the issue in the next scheduled devchat. As always, if you have any questions about or problems with this moderator action or any other, please contact the forum moderators at [email protected] and be sure to include a link to thread in question along with your character name for reference and as some issues require us to know them before proceeding. forum rules \| [email protected]


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