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Solaris Ecladia
High Flyers Ex Cinere Scriptor
72
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:10:00 -
[91] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:floating in space wrote:You seem to share CCP's attitude towards customers Prince Which is what, refusing to listen to a few mindless people who are making personal attacks against a person they have never met demanding answers to a question that they have no right to.
I hear whiteknighting is all the rage nowadays... |

floating in space
University of Caille Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:floating in space wrote:You seem to share CCP's attitude towards customers Prince Which is what, refusing to listen to a few mindless people who are making personal attacks against a person they have never met demanding answers to a question that they have no right to.
Belligerent disregard and resentment, yeah. |

Revman Zim
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
108
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:floating in space wrote:You seem to share CCP's attitude towards customers Prince Which is what, refusing to listen to a few mindless people who are making personal attacks against a person they have never met demanding answers to a question that they have no right to.
^^ pretty much this.
When the forum posts became personal and unprofessional, the posters lost all credibility. |

Prince Kobol
782
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:11:00 -
[94] - Quote
Solaris Ecladia wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:floating in space wrote:You seem to share CCP's attitude towards customers Prince Which is what, refusing to listen to a few mindless people who are making personal attacks against a person they have never met demanding answers to a question that they have no right to. I hear whiteknighting is all the rage nowadays...
I hear that posting rubbish is all the rage as well :) |

Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1764
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:11:00 -
[95] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote: 1. Your point being what? 2. The developers preach now.. please show me were they preach. 3. No, you are not making founded and reasons criticisms at all. I have yet to see any rounded and reasonable criticisms, only a load of vile hateful rubbish. 4. You want the ability to want answers.. lol, I have never heard so much rubbish in my life. Just because CCP likes to engage its customers like any half decent company would, it does not mean that you can then want to know why they hired and fired people. 5. Like I said, just because you are paying customers it don't mean a thing when it comes to anything outside of the game Eve, and that includes hiring people. 6. I can play that game as well.. see answer 3 :) 7. It depends on the context.. are we talking about pathology, biology or psychology.
I learned that you are talking rubbish, have a personal agenda against somebody who you have never met and also.. This is my main..
1) An employee does tasks for a company to make a product. Thus the product is altered. In this case, the product is Eve. 2) Check interviews, old posts, blog posts, etc. The very existence of the blogs, social media, and forum sections specifically to solicit crowd sourcing from the community speaks to this. They are the tenants of strong community building and branding. CCP maneuvered their brand to not only be a dynamic space sim, but a company 'in touch' with its community demonstrated by the sheer amount of interaction going on. 3) See post #52 for the criticisms. If you are not capable of reading and understanding the criticisms, then you are not credible in this argument at all and can be dismissed. 4) Why can we not want to know? Why are you using ad hominem? 5) See point 2 as to why it indeed does matter. 6) Good for you. 7) Sociological. Emergent behavioral patterns originating from a group which then spreads out to cause more action. Social media is a good example of latent action spurred on by an event.
I once again suggest you read Post #52 to understand the actual logical reasoning behind this as opposed to dismissing the claims of others as 'agenda based' or misogynistic. We don't care that she's a woman. We wouldn't care if she was a sentient lemur. It is their past action that is the issue.
|

Prince Kobol
782
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:11:00 -
[96] - Quote
floating in space wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:floating in space wrote:You seem to share CCP's attitude towards customers Prince Which is what, refusing to listen to a few mindless people who are making personal attacks against a person they have never met demanding answers to a question that they have no right to. Belligerent disregard and resentment, yeah.
Pretty sure you need to look up the meaning of those words  |

floating in space
University of Caille Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:12:00 -
[97] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:floating in space wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:floating in space wrote:You seem to share CCP's attitude towards customers Prince Which is what, refusing to listen to a few mindless people who are making personal attacks against a person they have never met demanding answers to a question that they have no right to. Belligerent disregard and resentment, yeah. Pretty sure you need to look up the meaning of those words 
Reread your posts  |

Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
327
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:16:00 -
[98] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote: I hear that posting rubbish is all the rage as well :)
You heard right and you heard it here first!
Join us next week when Pyrion Flax joins CCP! ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkzv-3vJn4w ) Not today spaghetti. |

Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:17:00 -
[99] - Quote
Anslo wrote:It is their past action that is the issue.
which ones? the ones where she criticized eve (far from the first ccp employee to do so)? |

Prince Kobol
783
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:19:00 -
[100] - Quote
Anslo wrote:
1) An employee does tasks for a company to make a product. Thus the product is altered. In this case, the product is Eve. 2) Check interviews, old posts, blog posts, etc. The very existence of the blogs, social media, and forum sections specifically to solicit crowd sourcing from the community speaks to this. They are the tenants of strong community building and branding. CCP maneuvered their brand to not only be a dynamic space sim, but a company 'in touch' with its community demonstrated by the sheer amount of interaction going on. 3) See post #52 for the criticisms. If you are not capable of reading and understanding the criticisms, then you are not credible in this argument at all and can be dismissed. 4) Why can we not want to know? Why are you using ad hominem? 5) See point 2 as to why it indeed does matter. 6) Good for you. 7) Sociological. Emergent behavioral patterns originating from a group which then spreads out to cause more action. Social media is a good example of latent action spurred on by an event.
I once again suggest you read Post #52 to understand the actual logical reasoning behind this as opposed to dismissing the claims of others as 'agenda based' or misogynistic. We don't care that she's a woman. We wouldn't care if she was a sentient lemur. It is their past action that is the issue.
Here we go again..
1. The task in question is answering questions and forum moderation for Dust.. how does that effect Eve?
2. Yet at no point would I consider any of them preaching.. like I asked before.. give me a link to something which can be classed as preaching.
3. I have read them but all I see is personal attacks and nothing which states that she can not do the job that she has been hired for. In fact she has things which would make her a good candidate such as having over 25k subs on her youtube channel which would indicate that people like her, which is good for a community rep.
4. You can not know because if has nothing to do with you. Also, I am pretty damn sure that CCP are not able to post what her qualification are because that would be classed as private data.
5. See point 2.
6. Thank you :)
7. Lol.. well you have me beat by that one. Far too clever for me :)
Her past actions have no relation to her job. So she posts youtube vids, which in my own personal opinion are awful, she complained about the Eve community.. who hasn't, and as for the rest I will not talk about as what she does in her personal life is up to her and nothing to do with anybody here. |

Ripblade Falconpunch
State War Academy Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:21:00 -
[101] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Lusty Wench wrote:
I guess the TL;DR is that I'm not comfortable contributing to one of your employees salary.
I am almost certain this is what it sounds like when a hipster realizes that his cherished nitch hobby is about to go mainstream.
Mainstream? EVE? Get real..... .seriously. |

Ripblade Falconpunch
State War Academy Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
Lusty Wench wrote:It only seems like a few today, because so many were slain yesterday.
There's only the decimated camp on one side of the field whose warriors are now more careful, and the frightened , on the other side of the field the white knights and fans are still at full strength.
The battlefield is strew with the corpses of the blunt, the overtly truthful, the twitter, youtube and picture linkers.
Oh, we're still here.
We're just sitting back, eating popcorn, and waiting for the inevitable.... and there's no point risking a ban by linking anything when 5 minutes on google will get you everything you could possibly want to know about this... "situation"... and probably a lot you'd rather forget.
There's no point in even arguing about it any more. It's over and done. The white knights will continue their hilarious "defense" no matter what evidence proving their "cause" isn't even worth defending is out there, and the rest of us will sit back and wait quietly for the inevitable. That's it. |

Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1769
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:30:00 -
[103] - Quote
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:which ones? the ones where she criticized eve (far from the first ccp employee to do so)? Do some research and see how far the rabbit hole goes. It's not pretty.
Prince Kobol wrote:
1. The task in question is answering questions and forum moderation for Dust.. how does that effect Eve? 2. Yet at no point would I consider any of them preaching.. like I asked before.. give me a link to something which can be classed as preaching. 3. I have read them but all I see is personal attacks and nothing which states that she can not do the job that she has been hired for. In fact she has things which would make her a good candidate such as having over 25k subs on her youtube channel which would indicate that people like her, which is good for a community rep. 4. You can not know because if has nothing to do with you. Also, I am pretty damn sure that CCP are not able to post what her qualification are because that would be classed as private data. 5. See point 2. 6. Thank you :) 7. Lol.. well you have me beat by that one. Far too clever for me :)
Her past actions have no relation to her job. So posts youtube vids, she complained about the Eve community.. who hasn't, and as for the rest I will not talk about as what she does in her personal life is up to her and nothing to do with anybody here.
1) The role of a representative is not limited to interactions, even though it is a major part of it. They need to collaborate and determine long term plans to engage the community, how to handle problems, and how to bring grievances up. The employee in question has a history of pushing for more PvE and a leash being placed on the :grimdark: of Eve. With this bias, the person could push more of her agenda through players and brush aside the others. 2) I did not use the term preaching, you are putting words in my mouth to discredit me despite the fact it is demonstrably false. It is the frequency of which it happened. If someone has the image link of her posts and ramblings against CCP/Eve, feel free to pm them to Kobol. 3) I do not think you understand the difference between a personal attack and stating facts that are personal. She may be capable of running A community, but there are different types of communities. This particular one is not happy with her. Additionally, you are using a number fallacy. "Likes" are not an indicator of quality work when applied to a specific situation. 4) That is not what you said before. You said we can not WANT to know, as in we don't have the right to want to know. We do. Again, we don't care about her resume. We want to know why they hired someone who has a horrible repertoire with the community. 5) N/A 6) You are welcome. 7) I do this for a living.
Her past actions, as anyone's, does relate to the job. I would not hire someone to my company as a face to the customers when they have long been an outspoken person against the product until their time of hiring. It is simply bad PR. Additionally, bias would be a concern unless more resources were allocated to monitor them to prevent biased action. What do you think a resume is for? Or a criminal background check? Or ANY background check for that matter before being hired?
Prince Kobol wrote: I have no idea if she was the most qualified for the job because I have no idea what her qualifications are and what the post required and was not involved in her interview.
That's the point, nobody here knows.. hence why it all amounts to nothing then personal attacks as nobody has the facts apart from CCP and they are the only people who matter.
You must learn to infer based on the evidence available to you. Not all conclusions in history were met because the path was direct. While it is true we do not know her qualifications, we can infer based on the evidence available, including disposition to the game, attitude to the player base, conduct on social media post event, already evidenced poor PR ability, and a number of other factors. This history alone would ensure that I would not hire such a person, especially if the community of my product is very passionate and outspoken of said product.
Additionally, CCP has learned a lot about community relations and damage control. So, why hire someone they knew would cause so many problems? One can infer that her controversy would, as a DUST rep, would likely attract people.
It is not personal attacking, it is critical thinking based on the evidence at hand.
|

floating in space
University of Caille Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:31:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ripblade Falconpunch wrote:Shizuken wrote:Lusty Wench wrote:
I guess the TL;DR is that I'm not comfortable contributing to one of your employees salary.
I am almost certain this is what it sounds like when a hipster realizes that his cherished nitch hobby is about to go mainstream. Mainstream? EVE? Get real..... .seriously.
I think CCP are actually trying to make it mainstream, which is sort of scary, for different reasons than they think |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
472
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:31:00 -
[105] - Quote
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:Anslo wrote:It is their past action that is the issue. which ones? the ones where she criticized eve (far from the first ccp employee to do so)?
The most funny part is that it seems people don't think CCP will give her some guide line along with the paycheck... Do you guys really think she will trash talk the game as a community manager?
It's pretty obvious they are getting her because they know she can handle community management job as proved by her channel. They will then give her guideline to follow to use her skill to further the company. They are not hiring her for her opinion but for what she can do. They are thinking as a buisness instead of a bunch of irritated fanboy like the forum are right now. |

Enmesharra
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:32:00 -
[106] - Quote
I spy with my little eye a neck beard who bought something off of the wish list....OP |

Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:34:00 -
[107] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Elizabeth Aideron wrote:which ones? the ones where she criticized eve (far from the first ccp employee to do so)? Do some research and see how far the rabbit hole goes. It's not pretty.
i did but i couldnt find anything, sorry :( |

Lusty Wench
Nox Incurro
75
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:35:00 -
[108] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:floating in space wrote:You seem to share CCP's attitude towards customers Prince Which is what, refusing to listen to a few mindless people who are making personal attacks against a person they have never met demanding answers to a question that they have no right to.
There are no personal attacks and I would thank you to stop saying that. It's inflammatory and unwarranted. Almost like you want to get the thread deleted.
I say again, please, if you can't post with a respectful and civil tone even towards other players, just don't post. |

Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1770
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:37:00 -
[109] - Quote
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:Anslo wrote:Elizabeth Aideron wrote:which ones? the ones where she criticized eve (far from the first ccp employee to do so)? Do some research and see how far the rabbit hole goes. It's not pretty. i did but i couldnt find anything, sorry :(
They appear to have been deleted along with her Twitter posts. Someone can eve mail you links to saved copies if they are so inclined. I saw a lot floating around yesterday.
|

Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
120
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:42:00 -
[110] - Quote
Anslo wrote:
It is not personal attacking, it is critical thinking based on the evidence at hand.
Which is pretty limited, seeing as she hasn't been giving us information related to a job application. Seems that CCP, having gone through a formal hiring process, is far more likely to have the relevant information. What you're doing isn't critical thinking, it's looking at limited facts and jumping to conclusions.
|

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
473
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:46:00 -
[111] - Quote
Delen Ormand wrote:Anslo wrote:
It is not personal attacking, it is critical thinking based on the evidence at hand.
Which is pretty limited, seeing as she hasn't been giving us information related to a job application. Seems that CCP, having gone through a formal hiring process, is far more likely to have the relevant information. What you're doing isn't critical thinking, it's looking at limited facts and jumping to conclusions.
They are basicly basing thier whole point on "A person can never change his/her opinion over something so she will trash talk eve/dust after being hired.".
Player cahnge thier mind about this game on a daily basis but she can't. She's some kind of hard programmed robot with a locked mind algoritm. |

Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1770
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:47:00 -
[112] - Quote
Delen Ormand wrote:Which is pretty limited, seeing as she hasn't been giving us information related to a job application. Seems that CCP, having gone through a formal hiring process, is far more likely to have the relevant information. What you're doing isn't critical thinking, it's looking at limited facts and jumping to conclusions.
Again, this is not related to her qualifications or ability as a community manager. What is questioned and would beg an explanation is why she, of all people, was hired given her history and reputation with the community? I studied PR as an undergrad and one of the key things when hiring a community rep or any client/customer facing employee is to assess the persons online sentiment towards them. Customers are not idiots despite some beliefs. If they see a rep being employed, and that rep is loathed by the customers, you have problems.
The only possibility of being hired were to be if she brought some kind of financially tempting plan or skill to the table. The ROI would need to be HUGE to warrant the risk. But, THAT is jumping to a conclusion (Occam's Razor).
|

None ofthe Above
642
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:48:00 -
[113] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Elizabeth Aideron wrote:Anslo wrote:Elizabeth Aideron wrote:which ones? the ones where she criticized eve (far from the first ccp employee to do so)? Do some research and see how far the rabbit hole goes. It's not pretty. i did but i couldnt find anything, sorry :( They appear to have been deleted along with her Twitter posts. Someone can eve mail you links to saved copies if they are so inclined. I saw a lot floating around yesterday.
The big lie here is that she trashed EVE the game. I don't follow her well enough to be able to say she never criticized the game (and really who hasn't?), but those tweets didn't say that.
She didn't hate the game, she hated certain playahs.
And from the behavior exhibited recently, I can't say I blame her. Am glad she got over it. Don't make me hand you a wizard hat. |

Domer Pyle
Northern Flemish Bastards Inc Yulai Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:51:00 -
[114] - Quote
i'm curious...why do people in this community post walls-o-text? when i played other games, people would keep their posts short, and it was nice. i think it should be mandatory to have a tl;dr version for every wall-o-text
tl;dr: post shorter posts "Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known. Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door. If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator? You never remembered who it was that closed you in." - Ior Labron |

floating in space
University of Caille Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:52:00 -
[115] - Quote
I would say it's pretty obvious why she was hired. If you've ever seen one of her youtube video's you probably think the same as me.
But then again, it's true that I very rarely understand what CCP is doing.
So it's possible they could look at any random application and think
Quote:My god, this (blank). The prose, the sparkling wit, s/he's a genius! An unknown quantity! S/he'll lead our company into the 23rd century!
You never know. |

Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
120
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 17:55:00 -
[116] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Delen Ormand wrote:Which is pretty limited, seeing as she hasn't been giving us information related to a job application. Seems that CCP, having gone through a formal hiring process, is far more likely to have the relevant information. What you're doing isn't critical thinking, it's looking at limited facts and jumping to conclusions. Again, this is not related to her qualifications or ability as a community manager. What is questioned and would beg an explanation is why she, of all people, was hired given her history and reputation with the community? I studied PR as an undergrad and one of the key things when hiring a community rep or any client/customer facing employee is to assess the persons online sentiment towards them. Customers are not idiots despite some beliefs. If they see a rep being employed, and that rep is loathed by the customers, you have problems. The only possibility of being hired were to be if she brought some kind of financially tempting plan or skill to the table. The ROI would need to be HUGE to warrant the risk. But, THAT is jumping to a conclusion (Occam's Razor).
Having read through this thread and the deleted one, this 'loathing' isn't universal, not even amongst the subset of people that use the forums. Fact is, most [/i ]players don't have a problem with her, it's just that the ones that do are particularly vocal. But none of the people opposing her hiring have made complaints about her lack of ability to do her job. It's all about how they [i]fear she will do, or things that she has done in the past - which are unrelated to her current job.
The bit about what she brings to the table is pretty much irrelevant - she's already been hired, the decision has been made. How it was arrived at is not really our concern.
|

Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1770
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 18:01:00 -
[117] - Quote
Delen Ormand wrote:Having read through this thread and the deleted one, this 'loathing' isn't universal, not even amongst the subset of people that use the forums. The keyword is subset. Not all people use the forums. While the anger can't be accurately measured across the whole of Eve based on forum goers, you COULD do a random sample of a few thousand people but...that's another story and me getting researchy.
Quote:Fact is, most [/i ]players don't have a problem with her, it's just that the ones that do are particularly vocal. But none of the people opposing her hiring have made complaints about her lack of ability to do her job. It's all about how they [i]fear she will do, or things that she has done in the past - which are unrelated to her current job. How is that fact? Where are the numbers? You and I both don't have the evidence to claim fact about anything outside of what is available to us and what can be realistically inferred. The new employees history being questions? Sure, evidence is available. Saying MOST people don't have a problem with her is fact? We need numbers. And again, this isn't about her ability to manage a community (for the fifth time). This is about her disposition towards the game and wanting to know why someone so against the :grimdark: of Eve was hired. I honestly don't care about her resume.
Quote:The bit about what she brings to the table is pretty much irrelevant - she's already been hired, the decision has been made. How it was arrived at is not really our concern.
No, it is not irrelevant as it is a possible explanation for her hiring. The anti-questioning and pro-obedience rhetoric from people on these forums is getting absurd.
"Question nothing. You don't need to know. Sit down and play or leave. Obey."

|

None ofthe Above
642
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 18:04:00 -
[118] - Quote
Mintchip has promoted the game for years. If you look over the comments on her youtube channel, there are many many people that say "I tried EVE because of your videos."
She has a way of making the game interesting to people that don't know the game.
Dust could use that kind of promotion.
I think that very same thing that makes her successful, annoys the hell out of the 'leet PvPers and hardcore eve types. They all think they could do better and don't understand why people tune in. And yes, maybe they could do better ... at making a video cast that they, the 'leets, would be interested in. But that doesn't justify heaping crap on someone. Don't make me hand you a wizard hat. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
2227
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 18:05:00 -
[119] - Quote
Applicable:
Even more applicable:
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Turoc Acnor
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 18:09:00 -
[120] - Quote
This reminds me of the last time CCP mishandled things. HR in game > HR out of game.
This is a signature. |
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