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The Nieblung Mining laser. How it came into the game from the person that put it there.

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t0rfiFrans	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:24:00 - [1] Edited by: t0rfiFrans on 07/08/2003 18:27:42 Ok it looks like I need to come forward and straighten some things out regarding the sick Jovian running around giving Nieblung mining lasers away. The story goes like this: Last Wednesday I was chatting in a CSM chat along with some devs and reps from the player community. I showed up as a Jove character to give people a glimpse of how Joves look as we recently finished modelling and shading the Jove Modifier character. While chatting, I decided to undock from the station I was in and was approached by a player Saruu. He asked what a Jove was doing there and I role-played the Jove for a while, while still chatting on the CSM channel. I flew to where he was and orbited to allow for some quality screenshot time. At the end of the session I wanted to give him a souvenir from his Jove encounter and decided to give him the mining laser from the ship, as it was the ônewbieö Jove frigate and I thought a mining laser couldnÆt hurt anyone could it? I didnÆt realize that it was tech level 5 and 10 times more powerful than a regular laser. From what I gathered the laser was available as a rare loot drop anyway so giving it away shouldnÆt be that bad, but I was very wrong there. What happened then is Saruu realized that it was an incredibly powerful item, contacted TTI as they are a large corporation with deep pockets and sold it to them or traded it for something. Anyway TTI got it from him and not from a corrupt Polaris dude, but me: the absent-minded lead artist of CCP Games. The people on the CSM chat yesterday didn't know about this so they concluded that this must have happended by a Jove frigate exploding and leaving its modules behind, because that's the only other way a module like this can get into the game. I know delegates from the Jove empire have contacted TTI and another player that has also acquired a laser of the same sort by mistake and will meet with them tomorrow to discuss a fair trade, essentially removing the item from the game and giving them something in return (as they paid good money for it, not knowing how it came into the game originally, hence were fair in their trade) which should hopefully make them and other people happy as well. IÆm of course sorry for causing this stir in the community, as all I wanted to do was to make a fellow role-player happy while idling in a dev chat. Hopefully the Jovian delegates will come to agreement with the players involved and manage to sort the issue out. Regards Torfi Frans Lead Artist CCP Games
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:26:00 - [2] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 07/08/2003 18:28:57 I'd love to see what they are willing to accept in exchange for a tech 5 mining laser - a new Megathron? Edit: I re-read it and got my answer LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Daesdemona	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:27:00 - [3] tears of joy fill my eyes.... ----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" -----------------------------------------------
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:28:00 - [4] What you did wasn't wrong.. hell, if I was the lucky player, I would consider it the greatest treasure ever. I think many people are either jealous or angry that their enemy has it. So, one question... its available as a rare loot drop? _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Indesin	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:29:00 - [5] I wish the Jove would give me an ANTI-CTD modifier.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:29:00 - [6] He thought it was available as a drop but he was wrong. Read it carefully...like I did LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Kalhan	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:29:00 - [7] Do you guys use Macs to create some of the art in the game??
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:30:00 - [8] d'oh _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Halo Jones	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:30:00 - [9] nice to hera u say this, but two things, TTi may have got it fairly, but teh small corp u gave it to, now have a 55million isk advantage ove r those u didnt give it to, give tti their 55 million back, nail the laser and nerf the small corp 55 million to even the scores, otherwise i'll be looking corp compensation as well afterall we did nothing wrong, yet others get 55million isk ahead as for Quote: I didnÆt realize that it was tech level 5 and 10 times more powerful than a regular laser. From what I gathered the laser was available as a rare loot drop anyway so giving it away shouldnÆt be that bad, but I was very wrong there. is this seriously a rare loot drop or are u incorrect yet again? Oberon Incorporated.
t0rfiFrans	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:30:00 - [10] Edited by: t0rfiFrans on 07/08/2003 18:33:06 The item is not available as a rare drop loot. regards torfi
JimmySav	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:31:00 - [11] thnx for explaining. As for the cost of return, im sure that it will be whatever the jovian battleships "suggest" lol Jim'll Fix it For You. ( and you and you!)
t0rfiFrans	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:31:00 - [12] Read: not available as rare drop loot.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:32:00 - [13] hehe, just edit your post t0rfi _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Endureth	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:32:00 - [14] That's funny. I understand the misunderstanding completely. Innocent mistake. -E
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:32:00 - [15] 55M isk isn't really that much of an advantage these days..it's only 7 proto gauss 250mm's after all LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:33:00 - [16] shudder joshua, your sig is of such poor quality _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Halo Jones	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:34:00 - [17] is it to a small corp trying to attain their first battleship Josh... Its a hell of a lot Oberon Incorporated.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:34:00 - [18] I'm working a new one: My current silliness over TTi etc clouded my judgement. Me = big fool. Me = LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Endyl	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:37:00 - [19] Damn great job on the ships design ! For the rest, a crime made with good intentions is not really a crime. :) Keep up the good work.
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:37:00 - [20] Edited by: j0sephine on 07/08/2003 18:43:24 "The story goes like this: <snip>" ... Soo-o, whoever came up with that 'young Jove dude getting excited from contact with natives and giving away his cupholder as a gift' story, pretty much nailed it?.. =) Thank you for the explanation Sir, most appreciated. :)
Jorev	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:37:00 - [21] Thanks for the statement. It's refreshing to get the whole unadulterated truth. SOE would have refused comment and brushed it under a rug. Love your artwork btw.
Kalhan	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:37:00 - [22] What about my Mac Question? I'm just curious.
AntiHero	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:39:00 - [23] Thanks for the explanation, t0rfiFrans. I thought I'd let you know that it was not that big of a deal and that you should not sweat it. ---
MrGold	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:40:00 - [24] all i can say is you can shove the game if any of the corps involved get 'compensated'
Vae Victis	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:41:00 - [25] Edited by: Vae Victis on 07/08/2003 19:07:31 Hey Tt0rfiFrans, Honest mistake, never had a problem with it. In fact, I thought it could have made for a VERY interesting time. A quest for the "holy grail" of mining lasers. Only 1 around...imagine the ship killing attempts with people hearing rumours of what ship had it attached, etc.etc. Too bad we have such a hyper sensitive, isk obsessed community too short sighted to enjoy the potential gaming opportunities. Once again...thanks for the entertainment and the response to set the record straight. Love the art t0rfiFrans...please keep it up. Oh, and those Caldari ships... XOX Vae
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:54:00 - [26] I applaud you t0rfiFrans for standing up and admitting to this. I'm still upset at TTI. They are a smart corp (very), they should have know that level 5 tech items should NOT be in game yet. No excuses, no RPing it away. A corp like TTI does not get that big by being stupid or luck. This miner was tech level 5. Come on TTI, do you really expect us to belive that TTI is real good everying but common sense? _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Ragnar	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:55:00 - [27] Edited by: Ragnar on 08/08/2003 07:42:30 [ooc] Comments moved and appended to page 7 of this behemoth thread. Thank you. - Ragnar Danneskj÷ld Taggart Transdimensional, Inc. http://www.taggarttransdimensional.com
Quantum Gopher	Posted - 2003.08.07 18:56:00 - [28] Tech 5 mining lasers as default Jovian equipment... sigh I think I need an operation...perhaps some DNA...maybe some implants..? Q. Gopher __________ I know...it's only ROCK and roll, but I like it!!
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:07:00 - [29] Quote: Edited by: t0rfiFrans on 07/08/2003 18:27:42 Last Wednesday I was chatting in a CSM chat along with some devs and reps from the player community. <SNIP> Quick question, last Wednesday: Is that 06/08/2003 or 30/7/2003? If it was the first, why didn't you speak up during the CSM meeting where the question was raised. If it was the latter, is CCP going to be adding any methods to search for items that shouldn't exist? After all, a quick scan of the DB should be able to show all items that are not in a loot table or available on market. _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
plur	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:07:00 - [30] Thanks for clearing this up tor, but i dont think TTI should get anything other than their origional payment back.. which was an apoc as far as i can figure... When Hellmar stops beating your ears, can you sort the textures out on the back of the scythe and remove minmatar logos from amar ships? been bug reporting them since beta... hell if it doesent get to you that way maybe a more direct way will work thanks again for posting this, more posts like this on game issues PLEASE CCP. it just so cuts through the BS and lets people know matter of fact and saves all these conspiracy theories. as others have suggested tho.. this WOULD be a great oportunity to RP some new stuff into the game, or a story of its own... maybe turn the miner into a miner 2? have some joves come ask for it (without using the heal setec 0.5 stuff) and see what TTI do in response? keep up the good work!
Starwolf	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:07:00 - [31] Torfi, good of you to come forward. In your post you state that TTI are already in contact with Jovian representatives, could you confirm that this is the case please?
MrGold	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:08:00 - [32] I am trying to calm down now, but I have 1 question. You say you wanted to show players what Jove looked like, then why may I ask did you not do this on the testing server ?
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:09:00 - [33] i guess we all feel better now, huh? I'm glad the players who have the things will be traded something more approprate for them, too, rather than be SOL. You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:09:00 - [34] I can't say reimbursing TTI for their 55m isk is fair. They need to write that isk off as an expensive rental fee and suck it up. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Stavros	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:11:00 - [35] Nice to see torifrans reply and its np really, everyone makes mistakes now and again... Hell I even let ships go occasionally :) Now if only the tti monkies would stop trying to make out like they are special and let this accident drop rather than trying to roleplay it as some event, we could all just forget about it. Stav -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:13:00 - [36] Quote: and remove minmatar logos from amar ships? /me hides his paintbrush behind his back and whistles You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:17:00 - [37] Quote: Nice to see torifrans reply and its np really, everyone makes mistakes now and again... Hell I even let ships go occasionally :) Now if only the tti monkies would stop trying to make out like they are special and let this accident drop rather than trying to roleplay it as some event, we could all just forget about it. Stav Very true. Though I hope that if m0o ever finds a tech level 5 item (or similar) that they check to see if it should exist before using it. There is no excuse for trying to RP the skipping of 3 tech levels. _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Kalhan	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:27:00 - [38] They Can roleplay if they want too. Adds more content for them. Just because somepeople don't want to and knowbody know weither this Game is a RPG or not. Doesn't mean they are "Monkeys". So plz stop flaming and go back about your buisness untill you have something nice to say.
Mission	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:28:00 - [39] I believe this thread.. but... Who has the Other Nibelung Particle Bore Stream V lazer? "The one" that didn't come from a Jovian. "The one" that apeared in my Real life friends hangar? (a work mate). It was sold.
Duke Atreties	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:30:00 - [40] I almost have to agree. If suruu got 55m, every character in eve should get 55m. OR-they should take suruu's 55m away, AND TTI's laser away. agree?
MrGold	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:31:00 - [41] theres another ? your kidding...
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:32:00 - [42] Quote: They Can roleplay if they want too. Adds more content for them. Just because somepeople don't want to and knowbody know weither this Game is a RPG or not. Doesn't mean they are "Monkeys". So plz stop flaming and go back about your buisness untill you have something nice to say. Yea, you're right. They can roleplay this how they want. (and I must admit, they are creative) TTI is a smart corp though, they should have known that this item should not be in game. _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Mission	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:32:00 - [43] I have mentioned it in EVERY THREAD.. nobody is taking any notice.
MrGold	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:32:00 - [44] Quote: I almost have to agree. If suruu got 55m, every character in eve should get 55m. OR-they should take suruu's 55m away, AND TTI's laser away. agree? I couldn't agree more.
MrGold	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:33:00 - [45] Quote: I have mentioned it in EVERY THREAD.. nobody is taking any notice. ok ok, ill read the other threads sigh some peope are so touchy!
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:35:00 - [46] Edited by: Doc Brown on 07/08/2003 19:35:15 Quote: I have mentioned it in EVERY THREAD.. nobody is taking any notice. Not true. I've noticed. (for all the good it does) As I said, t0rfiFrans is a good man for standing up to his mistake. But where did the other one come from? And, as a paying customer, prove to me that there are no other items out there that should not exist. _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Kalhan	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:39:00 - [47] Thats tricky Doc. All they have to say is that it does exist but very rare or only if you perticipate in the event you get it. How would you be able to tell unless they admit it.
Vlad Damian	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:40:00 - [48] Edited by: Vlad Damian on 07/08/2003 19:42:45 Thank you Torfi for your explanation. This kind of honesty is greatly appreciated. Oh, and don't worry about it, we all have out absent minded moments Side note: Kalhan: Quote: Do you guys use Macs to create some of the art in the game?? I watched all the behind the scenes videos when I was trying to get into Beta (heh ), and from what I saw they do indeed use Macs for the 3D modeling... (not sure about the textures though) They use a nifty cross platform program called Maya (VERY nifty.) Hope that helps. Oh and Torfi, great work on the game's art man, it really is stunning. It's what made me leave Earth and Beyond and come here to EVE in the first place By the way... the Minmatar logos on the Amarr ships, is that supposed to be some sort of sick "Intel Inside" joke? :P Thanks again m8 -Cheers
zincol	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:44:00 - [49] SORT OUT THIS MESS YOU HAVE MADE CCP Your losing too many customers as it is without unfair play as many see this...!!!
Alpha Centauri	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:47:00 - [50] That's too bad, Saruu was given a great gift and he done the wrong thing with it :( Imagine if Saruu found a way to reverse engineer and then created the only nibelung manufacturer? wow :] shame!
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:47:00 - [51] Quote: Thats tricky Doc. All they have to say is that it does exist but very rare or only if you perticipate in the event you get it. How would you be able to tell unless they admit it. How would I tell? I'd look at the tech level, then ask a GM. That is what they are there for. As for how would the Eve community know, well that's up to CCP to determine. It shouldn't be that hard to write some SQL that will show all items in PC hands that are not in either the loot tables or active market tables. _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Endureth	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:47:00 - [52] Edited by: Endureth on 08/08/2003 18:50:55 I posted this somewhere else, but I wanted to post it here where the topic is a little hotter. Ya know, this wouldn't have been a big deal normally, I mean it was only one laser. TTI did what any sane person would have done. They bought the laser and put it to use. I must admit though that the picture they posted along with it in their little press release got me up in arms immediately also. It had a picture of the laser's show info box and in the background an entire TTI fleet mining. It was pretty easy to make the assumption that everyone one of those ships was using that laser. THAT's what made it so suspicious to me. In hind-sight though . . . who cares. It was one mining laser given to a corpless player who turned around and did the smartest thing he could do. He sold it to the biggest corp he could find and he made his fortune. I give kudos to TTI for role-playing it so well. Thier role-playing abilities is what I respect TTI most for, at least THEY understand that this is just a game. I am a little put out that not everyone in this game can have the kind of fun the bigger corps have but, whatever. I'll just keep staring at my rocks and killing my NPC pirates. It's a shame they had to give the laser up IMO. -E
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:50:00 - [53] "Imagine if Saruu found a way to reverse engineer and then created the only nibelung manufacturer?" ... Then someone else would reverse-engineer one of his lasers, and soon the whole EVE universe would be running with those...
Alpha Centauri	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:55:00 - [54] yeh, I really think this was a great way to introduce content, its not unfair, whats so bad about a mysterious jovian giving a gift to a poor player. I think there are no problems here, Saruu has a lot to learn. Players shouldnt feel disgruntled by one uber mining laser given to someone, admittedly I was horrified when I first heard about TTI owning uber lasers, but way t0rifrans puts it, its not that bad at all.
Kalhan	Posted - 2003.08.07 19:58:00 - [55] Quote: Edited by: Vlad Damian on 07/08/2003 19:42:45 Thank you Torfi for your explanation. This kind of honesty is greatly appreciated. Oh, and don't worry about it, we all have out absent minded moments Side note: Kalhan: Quote: Do you guys use Macs to create some of the art in the game?? I watched all the behind the scenes videos when I was trying to get into Beta (heh ), and from what I saw they do indeed use Macs for the 3D modeling... (not sure about the textures though) They use a nifty cross platform program called Maya (VERY nifty.) Hope that helps. Oh and Torfi, great work on the game's art man, it really is stunning. It's what made me leave Earth and Beyond and come here to EVE in the first place By the way... the Minmatar logos on the Amarr ships, is that supposed to be some sort of sick "Intel Inside" joke? :P Thanks again m8 Wooo Hooo thx M8. SEE I told you all MAC rule!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:03:00 - [56] This whole "rogue jovian agent" is just a neat roeplay event to clear up the erroneous tech 5 items right? There wont be any other event related to the introduction of tech 2 etc items? I'd like to know what TTi/Sanruu are given as compensation too. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Lonewulf	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:06:00 - [57] Sure give TTI a refund when you take it.. as SOON as they return all the massive quantities of high level ore it allowed them to mine in record time.
Kalhan	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:08:00 - [58] I think now that its there maybe they could keep it in the game and put it on the market for like 55mil
zincol	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:10:00 - [59] Edited by: zincol on 07/08/2003 20:11:13 there is more than just the tech 5 mining l453r and the tech 5 missles... if u look back the guy who had the l453r has other items too given to him by the jovian junkie!!
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:11:00 - [60] Edited by: DREAMWORKS on 07/08/2003 20:11:29 I however would like to thank you for the great roleplaying you have done, its stirred up the community as it would like a real Jovian encounter. Also it shown some immature players and some greedy farks, crying about something they didnt get. It shows some true colours and im glad it happend, cuz maybe THESE players will leave and make the community a better place to be... So thnx Jovian. Love to see more in the future. -edit- stupid typo. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Grimmacker	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:14:00 - [61] Well whats gonna happen is their gonna rush forward as fast as they can to bring out the higher tech items so that they can cover before anybody else can come forward with anything. In that sense they can just say it was released. The underlying fact still remains though. How long has crooked actions been taking place intentional or not between ccp personnel and paying subscribers?
Mission	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:14:00 - [62] Quote: Edited by: Doc Brown on 07/08/2003 19:35:15 Quote: I have mentioned it in EVERY THREAD.. nobody is taking any notice. Not true. I've noticed. (for all the good it does) As I said, t0rfiFrans is a good man for standing up to his mistake. But where did the other one come from? And, as a paying customer, prove to me that there are no other items out there that should not exist. The other/same one appeared in my work mates hangar in place of a basic miner. I saw it myself on the screen, and as soon as he found it he msm'd me. The character was a new character that hadn't been played hardly. It just had the default mining lazer and gatling gun in the hangar. It was either a bug or CCP put it there for a laugh. My friend has quit the game btw. He sold it. This was a while ago and this is the SS "I" took of it. Nibelung SS So somebody out there as a very HOT item :)
Aleister Crowley	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:17:00 - [63] hmmm 10x more powerful than what currently exists? So a frigate can mine faster than my BS? If it was something smallish I too wouldn't have a problem, but isn't that a little over the top? My whole corp has worked their asses off to get the 2 BS we have now. To simply give one away (essentially the value we are talking here) is a bit much. Knowing TTI they had/have the thing going 24/7 (I would) That's like fitting 2.5 cruisers into 1 high slot! A game is only as good as it's rules are enforced. The real question this raises tbh is, if one guy from CCP is showing favor to a player you can damn well bet it's happened elsewhere. So now part of the game rules is schmooze the employees for better gear? Giving away free gear (that is unavailable to others) is making a mockery of the whole game platform. So will the next guy I encounter in combat have some sort of turret that is 10x better than what I'm shooting? Am I gonna lose a ship to some of this employee kindness? The FACT is no one here or at CCP can say that it won't happen. Nice going for ruining the integrity of this game. I'll be cancelling after the rest of corp is in battleships. hasta 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'
Kalhan	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:17:00 - [64] Oh no Mission look what you started now more ppl going to cry.
Kiran Kidashuen	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:20:00 - [65] Its a sad day when a player community whines like babies because they want it too. it's 1 mining beam. ONLY 1. Ummm can you guys just get over it please. The guy admitted his mistake. And TTI payed with their own money. Noone should be penalized. I mean yeah its prolly the best miner ever made but its only 1. And regarldess of the fact its a super rare item and should stay. Just get over it.
Mission	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:22:00 - [66] omg. don't people read b4 they post. READ ABOVE FFS.. this is what happened in all the other threads.. people just keep going on about there only being one.
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:23:00 - [67] and lastly, ...uh... i just got caught in a firestorm and forgot how i was gonna say this in the last 20 minutes of routers, misrouting, and field techs being routed in full retreat..... uh... good thing this webform don't timeout... summary then, yadda yadda well-handled CCP, thanks t0rfi for letting us know, this game will last much longer if we don't skip too many tech levels =), etc etc blah. You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Halo Jones	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:24:00 - [68] they have yet to state it is just 'one' mining laser frm what mission telsl us a second is in game , and was sold on to anon. and another corp has reported having tech lvl5 missiles so waht other tech lelv 3 4 5 gear is in game, assuming as per the patch notes all current tech2 gear is named incorrectly and the next patch will see it changed to lvl1, so whats in game that shouldn't be? Oberon Incorporated.
Shuas	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:25:00 - [69] Quote: I showed up as a Jove character to give people a glimpse of how Joves look as we recently finished modelling and shading the Jove Modifier character. jovian character looks cool:)
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:28:00 - [70] I've stayed out of the whole thing. You should be pleased I did too. Personally I thought it was a sign that such rare and coveted items were kicking around the place. This would appear not to be the case. But if it were the case, I'd be pleased. I'd be a little jealous for not being the recipient, admittedly, but some of the reactions that this has spawned have been unreasonable, at the very least. Downright out-of-order in some cases. Still, it's all over now. .
Thesiuss	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:28:00 - [71] Don't know if many here noticed but I must say that Jove character portrait looks very nice. Fits perfectly the image I had of a jove. Oberon Inc Website--------------Oberon Sales Page
StealthNet	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:30:00 - [72] You see, sometimes there are simple answers to issues that are being a pain for everyone. Since I was one of the players that asked for an official statement, now I feel completely satisfied with the answer, and I hope other players feel the same`, but I can only speak for myself. btw, congratulations for the artwork on the Jove! _______________________________________________
ChironV	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:31:00 - [73] LOL Has some RP fun while chatting, gives away a Jove noob miner and it blows up in his face like a flame bomb. Some people take this game WAAAYYY to seriously. There is a thing called RL. Step out into the sun and take a deeep breath. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
t0rfiFrans	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:32:00 - [74] Edited by: t0rfiFrans on 07/08/2003 20:37:31 Edited by: t0rfiFrans on 07/08/2003 20:36:06 On a sidenote: We use PCs for our content but Apple monitors ( got them cheap ). Maya for mac wasn't fully functional when we went into production plus all our production tools are PC written. I don't favour OSs all that much, Win2k, MacOS X and linux/unix are just tools, you know, they are similar today in terms of multi-threading and command shells and so on. ( start flamewar here ) And there is 1 other laser in space and I know the owner of the laser is meeting with his corporation tonight deciding whether to trade it with a Jove delegation. torfi ps: thanks guys for the positive feedback to this firefighting episode
Sedsiss	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:37:00 - [75] About the tech 5 missles.. The story goes that after release, there was some issues with the loot tables from certain pirates. Well, one guy was killing rats before they were fixed, got a Tech 5 Light missle blueprint, and made around 2-3k of the missles before the devs found out. The devs converted the missle blueprint to a lvl 1 item, and let the player keep the missles. I contacted said player while I was still very poor ingame, and offered to buy them. He sent me a screenshot of the missles stats and such, and while I wanted them badly, I could not afford the price (It totaled near 25 million for the whole lot, alot back in the day.) I might have the actual image from the missles still in my mailserv, but I doubt it. They were very agile, very, very fast and hit for around 75 hp I believe. I don't know what became of the missles.
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:43:00 - [76] I would like to thank t0rfiFrans for explaining the situation. His description of the Jovian encounter is exactly as I described it in my other comments on another thread. I'm happy it has been cleared up that we did not exploit nor did we cheat. Whatever TTI gains in compensation will be fair I'm sure. I commend CCP for turning this unfortunate error into a grand role-playing experience. I don't do alot of writing and am lousy writing in-character so this is a challenge for me but I'm enjoying the opportunity. As for Saruu I am happy to have talked to him on several occasions since the purchase (via evemail) and feel he did what he felt was best for his company. That is the ultimate form of loyalty. As for everyone else I hope the Jovians appear again (after our meeting tomorrow) and do gift "Godly" items on people at random (although level 2 not 5? ) to introduce us to their culture. I think meeting a Jovian would be a fun experienc and I think as an explorer (I'm director of exploration for TTI) becoming a Jovian would be the ultimate gaming experience for me. The quest for knowledge is something we should all aspire too. Safe journey to all. Calladen Nimitz TTI Executive
Alpha Centauri	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:48:00 - [77] i actually agree calladen, but i do think it was not wise for saruu to give it to a well established corp like yourselves. If i was saruu i woulda kept it and treasured it :]
Vlad Damian	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:48:00 - [78] Oops, sorry Kalhan It was the monitors that I saw in the video... (bad Vlad, no more jumping to conclusions for you!) Torfi - You still didn't answer my Minmatar logo question... sniff... -Cheers
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:58:00 - [79] Alpha, Being a capitalist I view Saruu's decision to sell as purely financial (and thus good). But thats from a capitalist view. We could never use that miner because of its value. It basically sat in a secure hangar the whole time we had it. Calladen
Crownan	Posted - 2003.08.07 20:58:00 - [80] Edited by: Crownan on 07/08/2003 21:14:20 Man, this is like a pre-school around here. Or worse, seems like a lot of you are still in your "terrible-two's." "I'm just gonna flail about on the floor and yell and scream because someone else has a balloon and I don't!" You people complaining about this really make me sick. Quote: I however would like to thank you for the great roleplaying you have done, its stirred up the community as it would like a real Jovian encounter. Also it shown some immature players and some greedy farks, crying about something they didnt get. It shows some true colours and im glad it happend, cuz maybe THESE players will leave and make the community a better place to be... I thought the role play here was great. I wish that CCP had just left it at that instead of giving in to greedy little children. I, too, wish the cry babies would just leave. Because there will be a lot of items introduced into the game via roleplay in the future, and I don't want to see 50 whiny posts each time it happens. Quote: But if it were the case, I'd be pleased. I'd be a little jealous for not being the recipient, admittedly, but some of the reactions that this has spawned have been unreasonable, at the very least. Downright out-of-order in some cases. So true. If this item had been shown to me by the receipient, I would have just said "Congratulations! You scored!" Then went back about my way. Appearantly, quite a few of the players are not capable of a mature response. Quote: Since I was one of the players that asked for an official statement, now I feel completely satisfied with the answer, and I hope other players feel the same`, but I can only speak for myself. I am satisfied as well. Though I cringe at CCP having to jump through all these hoops to try and satisfy a bunch of greedy "If I can't have one, you can't either!" kiddies. I wish they could have just let it go as our "First Jove Encounter." Quote: ps: thanks guys for the positive feedback to this firefighting episode torfi, you did a great job. GAME MASTERS are supposed to be in the game. It's so sad that there are so many babies out there that can't grasp that concept. Back in paper and pen RPG, nothing happened unless the Game Master made it happen. Now we have AI that handles a lot of the routine game events, but Game Masters are still needed to influence the game. I know part of that job here is being put on the Polaris plate, but the Game Masters are the ones that can and should make all the really interesting stuff happen. I would have liked to see the guys keep the stuff. Maybe even reverse engineer the items one day and mass produce them. It's all part of the game to me. And it better be part of the game to most of you because, very soon, monopolies on technologies will be here. Deal with it. Oooooo, wait, that person has a red balloon, I only have a green one. I'm going to go take that one away....
Splunge	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:01:00 - [81] Quote: Torfi - You still didn't answer my Minmatar logo question... sniff... If i remember my Minmatar history correctly the Mimatar's were betrayed by one of their own clans who sided with the Amarr when most of the race was enslaved. Perhaps the emblems you see on some of the Amarr ships are their Minmatar clan lapdogs.
Aleister Crowley	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:07:00 - [82] ""Its a sad day when a player community whines like babies because they want it too. it's 1 mining beam. ONLY 1. Ummm can you guys just get over it please."" No it's a sad day when one forgets how to comprehend a written text and then decides to flame someone for their valid concern. I will want one of these when they become available not before. I have no interest in playing by a different set of rules than others. It's only 1? You know this how? You don't KNOW. Game: 'A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other according to a set of rules' hmmm ok which rule entitles group A to advantages that are not available to others? Balance? Please explain the balancing process used here and what is the criteria? So what RULE was it here that came to play? Oh it wasn't a rule it was an arbitrary decision by an employee to let player A have a distinct advantage over every other player in the GAME. Ok so they are removing them. Ok what personal assurance do I have (as a paying customer) that this was an isolated incident and not the tip of an iceberg? Are the abilities of employees monitored? How closely? If TTI hadn't gone public with their miner would they still have it? Has CCP done a full DB audit to make sure this hasn't happened before? Basically what's the point of playing monopoly if there is a 3rd entity who arbitrarily hands out cash and property? Anyone has the right to feel anyway they want to about the incident (handled/unhandled). If CCP wants my business they will address my feelings on it, if they don't then they won't. Get it? Pretty simple. 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:08:00 - [83] Lonewulf: Sure give TTI a refund when you take it.. as SOON as they return all the massive quantities of high level ore it allowed them to mine in record time. Actually we never used it (except to try it out). It was far too expensive to ever mount on a ship as a one-of-a-kind item. It sat in a secure hangar the entire time waiting for reverse engineering. Now that the Jovians have come for it I'm sure they will take it back. Calladen
Destable	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:08:00 - [84] I have over 2000 tech level 5 missiles in the game. They are approved by CCP. Zrakor (GM I think?) let me keep them when he took away the lvl 5 BP I had purchased. What's my point? 1. There is some tech lvl 5 in the game, approved by CCP 2. I didn't get any fancy meeting, nor anyone asking how much isk I paid for the BP (ALOT), nor any compensation other than keeping the missiles I had made (and they cost minerals to make, not like they were free). They just said poof your Piranah light missile V BP has magically turned into a Piranah 1 BP, sorry for the incovenience, we'll let you keep your tech lvl 5 missiles. Lost a whole lot of isk in that deal. So where's the consistency, I think me losing a tech lvl 5 BP is a bigger deal than losing 1 single tech lvl 5 module.... 3. Anyone want some tech 5 missiles?
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:14:00 - [85] Crownan, Your observations are basically correct. I think the real issue here wasn't that the item appeared but the fact TTI ended up with it. People seem to love to hate us but we still get 4-5 emails a week from other CEO's asking how our "model" works in running a company. We're a big target as evidenced by the continued attacks on our shipping by new 1-man companies (some even write us to tell us they attacked us to "become famous") and the continued negative slant in the forums here. We've been accused of cheating and exploiting regarding this laser and I've yet to read one apology for this now that the truth has come out. I've apologized SEVERAL times on these forums when I make a mistake but then again thats the kind of person I am. I would like to think outside roleplaying (I know some criticism is roleplaying and I'm fine with that) people could admit when they've made a mistake. If any other company but TTI had obtained this, or even if Saruu had kept it, and it became public knowledge, you wouldn't have seen this outcry. Nor would you have seen the accusations we use Polaris and GM members for our own gain (really out of line roleplay or not). Calladen Nimitz
Tallon	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:23:00 - [86] Edited by: Tallon on 07/08/2003 21:28:02 I do like the senario and believe the 2 mining lasers should stay in the game. It adds fun to the game and the owners of the lasers will be forever looking over their shoulders. As far as the "first contact" are we going to here more of this to come? Is there going to be a relationship between the Jove pilot and the pilot that was given this mining laser? Heheh Can I know the next location of this exchange <evil grin>. Or maybe the story goes that the jove pilot is upset at the other pilots greedy nature with his gift and cuts off future relations with him. I can see ship scanners selling for more money in the furure :) Anyways my only concern is when reverse eng. comes in to the game. So as I see it I am ok with the one or two lvl 5 mining lasers in the game it adds a little spice. Weapons are a tough call tough. I am not sure I want to be looking down the barrel of a 250mm tech 5 hybred weapon. Also defensive modules, I would hate to be exchanging fire with a player pirate that has a lvl 5 shield booster. My view.. Tallon
Snoop	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:24:00 - [87] TTI shouldnt get any compensation unless the guy who traded/sold it to you gets a hefty bill
Scragg	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:26:00 - [88] Go though the logs. Undue what was done no one should profit from this mistake. Write 1 million times on the chalkboarad: "I WILL STAY OFF THE LIVE SERVERS" Go home, watch cartoons. Scragg, Tyrell Corporation Vice-Director Military Operations
Crownan	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:33:00 - [89] Quote: If any other company but TTI had obtained this, or even if Saruu had kept it, and it became public knowledge, you wouldn't have seen this outcry. I, for one, think it should have only gone to my corp. I am not going to begrudge anyone's good fortune. That is because I know that if I were to make sure that such good fortune would never happen to anyone, then I have also made sure it would never happen to me.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:40:00 - [90] Calladen, You come across as arrogant and superior, thats why. Being superior makes it even worse Sorry for spreading lies and conspiracies about your corp. P.S: Stay away you jovian diseased hoooman. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Xeserox	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:41:00 - [91] Torfifrans. Its great of you to step up like this.. ::doesn't sit here all day reading when this stuff happens...:: Hey you couldn't swing by X-7OMU could you, and let an over excited Caldari talk to the Jove can ya.. :) My charry is obsessed with getting into Jove Space and learning how to use their technologies. :) Great art work and thanks for all the work. leave everyone to flame eachother. :) Xeserox -Free Lance Frigate Pilot
Entity	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:44:00 - [92] I collect items... that mining laser would have made a fine addition to my already pretty large module collection :)
Toyo	Posted - 2003.08.07 21:59:00 - [93] Edited by: Toyo on 07/08/2003 22:02:38 I hate the knee jerk reaction and eventual division across the forums that so often visit these boards Everyone should stop and think for just a few seconds and try and see both sides of the argument. Was it right for a player to get such a valuable gift?...well it could quite easily have been you or me on the recieving end and you can bet I wouldn't complain if it were me sucking roids dry with my new super mining laser. There's nothing wrong with being in the right place at the right time, it's a good way of introducing new equipment (as long as it's done at random and not always in the dangerous 0.0 sectors). However when you realise that someone made 55 mill by selling something that shouldn't be in the game yet then you can see why so many get annoyed, remember 55 mill is still a lot of money to a large portion of the gaming community. The Tricky part now is deciding a fair way of sloving the problem. Should they simply delete the offending piece of technology, they did spend good money on it in good faith and the seller didn't knowingly do anything wrong. But then both parties have got something they shouldn't have, one has the laser, the other has money and at the end of the day that just isn't fair. I can't think of a way that would make everyone happyso do what involves the least ammount of effort...leave everything as it is.
Absinthe Addict	Posted - 2003.08.07 22:07:00 - [94] sipping absinthe, eyeing the Jovian with disdain My poor Jovian: in admission after waves of accusations, fleeing in fear for your life from a genetic mutagen you carry (or poor acting), seeking catharsis and the elusive "tabula rasa" for your transgressions albeit absent minded. swirling the absinthe in the crystal glass, sipping again Much has been pondered by the many regarding this so called "oversight". Even less has been said by those in the loupe considering the nature of the chargies levied. All of the many and those in the know, confused by the release of one "official" story after another; all actors on CCP's stage without the benefit of a well printed script. smirks, sips more absinthe Jade Constantine, a Gallente of the Jericho Fraction whimsically closed her tale of the Neibelung Mining Laser with the ubiquitous French saying, "c'est la vie." Please allow me the courtesy of refreshing your "superior" Jovian mind with my retort to Jade... Quote: C'est la vie ma petit cher Jade, non? Absolument non! Assez fait qui fortune passe, et plus encor qui putain chasse. smiling a knowing smile, savoring the taste of La Fee Verte Again I say this: Never ceasing, incredulous amazement (or amusement) do I find at how most of these technological conundrums happen to one corporation in the Eve universe. Taggart Transdimensional, the "first loved" corporation of CCP. ponders the roleplay aspect, chuckles, and sips absinthe again
Duke Atreties	Posted - 2003.08.07 22:44:00 - [95] Calladan- I dont care who got it... it is un-fair. A mistake like this should be fixed. The laser should go, or every character in eve should get 55m, plain and simple.
Sequin	Posted - 2003.08.07 22:48:00 - [96] Destable, i've contacted you ingame. I'm very interested in acquiring those missles. ;) ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.07 22:56:00 - [97] "I dont care who got it... it is un-fair. A mistake like this should be fixed. The laser should go, or every character in eve should get 55m, plain and simple." ... Do you complain it's unfair when there's only one winner in the Powerball game, and demand every participant should be paid the jackpot equivalent?.. Everyone could be in the place of that guy who actually was lucky enough to get the gadget(s). You included. How the hell is that "un-fair"?.. /boggle
KIAInkZ	Posted - 2003.08.07 22:59:00 - [98] I've got much more important things to worry about than someone getting something better than me in Eve. I think it's kinda cool that a couple of really special items exist, as long as they couldn't be reverse engineered. Make interesting reading on the boards that's for sure :) --- Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.07 23:00:00 - [99] Quote: Calladan- I dont care who got it... it is un-fair. A mistake like this should be fixed. The laser should go, or every character in eve should get 55m, plain and simple. What would be fair about giving everyone in-game 55 million? to some, thats 3 days work. To others, it more than they'll ever see. I've been here since release + 2 weeks. And although My net income has been higher than that, I've never had that much cash. the laser should go, but I'm not sure about the compensation, as, in my book it would come under the same hammer as 'I lost a BS to Concord bug'. But giving vast sums of money to everyone is no solution at all. .
Aleister Crowley	Posted - 2003.08.07 23:09:00 - [100] ""... Do you complain it's unfair when there's only one winner in the Powerball game, and demand every participant should be paid the jackpot equivalent?.."" So Eve is a lottery now? Funny I thought it was an mmorpg, not an a$$ tickling contest with the employees of CCP. 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.07 23:23:00 - [101] Edited by: j0sephine on 07/08/2003 23:23:50 "So Eve is a lottery now? Funny I thought it was an mmorpg, not an a$$ tickling contest with the employees of CCP." shrugs the concept of being at the right place at the right time with no additional information which could help to determine said 'right' place and time is v. random in its nature. Kind of like life itself, don't you think?.. ... now why exactly you'd feel the need to come anywhere near CCP collective derriere during such an event is not my concern, and to be honest i think i'll be much better remaining oblivious to the morbid details... :s
Acix	Posted - 2003.08.07 23:27:00 - [102] Edited by: Acix on 07/08/2003 23:27:22 THe thing that ends the day is that these players knew what they had. Or it would not have fetched 55 million isk. #1 if these players recieved this by mistake then all transactions should be reversed. #2 the players to keep the game running smoothly should have said "hey I don't think I was supposed to have this item", and returned it. Tell you the truth its what I would have done. These people that have done this are the same type that continue to try to get away with things that would normally be called exploits in other games. Since the players did not play honestly no extra compensation should be rewarded. If they decided to return the items when they found out what they really were then I could see CCP giving them a little reward for honesty......................... Shame on you TTI SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts. For more info click below http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.08.08 00:00:00 - [103] Quote: I have over 2000 tech level 5 missiles in the game. They are approved by CCP. Zrakor (GM I think?) let me keep them when he took away the lvl 5 BP I had purchased. Now what I'm wondering is why TTI didn't talk to a GM while you were kind enough to. TTI, care to answer? _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.08.08 00:02:00 - [104] Quote: <SNIP> it's 1 mining beam. ONLY 1. Ummm can you guys just get over it please. The guy admitted his mistake. And TTI payed with their own money. Noone should be penalized. I mean yeah its prolly the best miner ever made but its only 1. And regarldess of the fact its a super rare item and should stay. 1? No, there are more than one. Get over with it? No, it should not be in game. As somebody else put it, that laser alone can mine like 2.5 cruisers. That is an unbalancing item and either it should be available to more than one person/corp or it should not be in game. _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Hiro Protagonist	Posted - 2003.08.08 00:17:00 - [105] Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 08/08/2003 00:20:24 Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 08/08/2003 00:18:52 Doc Brown wrote: Quote: I applaud you t0rfiFrans for standing up and admitting to this. I'm still upset at TTI. They are a smart corp (very), they should have know that level 5 tech items should NOT be in game yet. No excuses, no RPing it away. A corp like TTI does not get that big by being stupid or luck. This miner was tech level 5. Come on TTI, do you really expect us to belive that TTI is real good everying but common sense? and Quote: Now what I'm wondering is why TTI didn't talk to a GM while you were kind enough to. TTI, care to answer? Doc, the item was gotten from someone who works for CCP by a player who provided complete and detailed information to TTI showing that the item was a bonafide and a legal part of the game as stated by a CCP employee. The guy even gave Ragnar the in-game name of the CCP employee who provided it. This is some pretty convincing info, and we accepted it - and publicly posted about it (rather than hide the fact that we owned it). Having one-of-a-kind, very cool items as "prizes" in MMORPGs is a totally normal thing - Everquest has them, for instance, where they are called artifacts. The existence of a similar thing in Eve didn't surprise TTI, and wouldn't surprise people who has seen such stuff before. P.S. Remember, it was not given to TTI - we had to buy it from the person who it was given to, at a cost that would take a long time to recoup if mining with it. We didn't mine with it - we kept it in a secure hangar waiting to reverse engineer it when the skills came into the game, gaining no advantage or isk from it whatsoever. So saying that the game was unbalanced by the item seems like a bit of a stretch.
Duke Atreties	Posted - 2003.08.08 00:30:00 - [106] this is no lottery josephene... this is eve, and we pay for it. I wouldnt be complaining if the item was random loot, or a random find next to a planet or moon. But someone FROM CCP, GAVE this item to a player for no reason. The right thing to do, is take away the laser. Then TTI should give suruu back his money. If CCP allows the laser to stay in eve, we should all get a laser of the same quality, or 55m...(being the price of the sale) What is so special about suruu? I pay every month just like him:P
Dan Forever	Posted - 2003.08.08 00:31:00 - [107] Hiro, you should have at least mined some veldspar in a 1.0 system, you would have made money in safety.
Doc Brown	Posted - 2003.08.08 00:58:00 - [108] Quote: <SNIP> Having one-of-a-kind, very cool items as "prizes" in MMORPGs is a totally normal thing - Everquest has them, for instance, where they are called artifacts. The existence of a similar thing in Eve didn't surprise TTI, and wouldn't surprise people who has seen such stuff before. P.S. Remember, it was not given to TTI - we had to buy it from the person who it was given to, at a cost that would take a long time to recoup if mining with it. We didn't mine with it - we kept it in a secure hangar waiting to reverse engineer it when the skills came into the game, gaining no advantage or isk from it whatsoever. So saying that the game was unbalanced by the item seems like a bit of a stretch. Well, the info from both your corps RP posts gave and what I had read from, the CSM chat, it was my assumption that there was well more than the 2 now known to be in circulation. If you mined with it or not is fully your word vs. others. That's not my point at all. When TTI got their hands on this item (at a steal if the 55mil price is true) I want to know why you did not question this item at the time? Even though the story has proved to be true, it still was a far fetched story because that is one hell of mistake to make! The fact that you were thinking ahead to reverse enginering it proves that you knew the value of the laser. After all, if tech level 2 is about to be introduced along with reverse enginering, TTI would suddenly become more powerful as they are the only makes of a tech level 5 laser. Now if you would have tossed in a secure hanger and then contaced a GM to find out the deal with it, I'd be much happier. But you didn't. Also, t0rfiFrans, that was a hell of a mistake you made. Props for standing up and explaining it. _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.08 00:58:00 - [109] Edited by: j0sephine on 08/08/2003 01:10:30 "I wouldnt be complaining if the item was random loot, or a random find next to a planet or moon. But someone FROM CCP, GAVE this item to a player for no reason." ... So, you wouldn't be complaining if someone was randomly given a very rare item by means of NPC, but do complain when the item is given equally randomly by a GM? There must be logic in this, but unfortunately i fail to see it; i also begin to doubt there's a point of organizing any GM-handled events in this game, since apparently it's going to wind up in collective whining how some were treated more equally than others. BTW, i think the reason for giving out the item was quite clearly stated in the original message. It was a reward for nice roleplaying; a shocking concept in online roleplaying game, i readily admit. ... And this is just over some friggin' single mining laser; imagine what happens when someone 'wins' new ship blueprint in an event like that. "What is so special about suruu? I pay every month just like him:P" Nothing; that's the very point -- he wasn't given the item because he's anyone special. He was simply lucky to be at the right place, at the right time, and had brains to act in the right way. You had exactly equal chance of being in his place, and getting the item yourself. Hence crying how it's unfair it was him that got lucky and not you is completely ridiculous...
Chucky	Posted - 2003.08.08 01:16:00 - [110] Actually I say screw the 55 million and give everyone the mining lasers instead. Then bship could destroy roid fields faster then destroying noob ships ... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture.
Caius Cassius	Posted - 2003.08.08 01:22:00 - [111] The greed of some people... "Gimme 55 million or I leave! CCP employees are all corrupt and lack integrity! Everyone except me is stupid!" Get the hell out of my game.
Sarkos	Posted - 2003.08.08 01:47:00 - [112] People, what's going on here? There is only one person at fault, and he started the post. The solution is simple. Since TTI claims to have not used it, treat it as if it never existed. No compansation. TTI loses the laser and gets their payment back. The person that sold it gives up the payment. Nothing is different from the day it happened. Now,why is compansation being offerered to TTI? This I can not understand. As long as the item is simply removed and all things put back to the way they were, nothing changes. Once compansation is given for the item, the game has been changed from the way it should be. TTI now has a Jove contact and something has entered the game that was not there. No CCP, please do not do this, just take the item and transfer the monies/items TTI paid back. Then treat it as if nothing ever happened. This is the only way I know of to keep this error from snowballing into a future problem. Sarkos
Hiro Protagonist	Posted - 2003.08.08 03:20:00 - [113] Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 08/08/2003 04:34:37 Speaking just for myself, I'm in agreement with Sarkos. Edit: Actually, Chucky's idea of giving everybody that laser sounds better. I never even saw the damn thing until just before the the explosion here, I drooled as much over it as the next guy.
SC0RPIAN	Posted - 2003.08.08 06:04:00 - [114] Sarkos, would you please copy what you have said and just post a new thread?:) If you dont, i will:) That is an amazingly good point.
Zentron	Posted - 2003.08.08 06:43:00 - [115] To be honest, I myself was hoping for a bit more entertaining resolution of this. Jovians that dna recycle one of their own for handing out high-tech equipment come over to buy/trade back the item that had fallen in corp hands? I don't know, but I'd seen the Jovians differently up till now, especially with all their high-tech. I'd rather have seen them take the lasers without compensation, leaving TTI with the option to demand reparations from the Jovians, and then (since the Jovians would obviously not pay) go over to having a true and serious roleplayed grievance. Yes, it's not part of their philosophy (taking on a higher tech species would mean a serious investment of material for little gain, and yes, I do understand that if for some reason Jovians would come with the offer to do an equal trade, that'd be more than fine for Ayn Rand followers), but they'd be the first corp with a legitimate grievance against the Jovians who'd have suckered them for the tune of 55 mill. They could've sent out feelers (well, explorer wings really) towards Jove space to see if they could break in, or catch a Jove ship unawares, incursions close to Jove controlled space, and so on. Maybe it's me, but for a company that invests so much (well spent btw) time in roleplaying the encounter where they got the mining laser in question, I'm still a bit disappointed at the amount that's gone into resolving it through roleplaying so far. Having said that I'll still say I enjoyed the whole roleplayed out encounter where they got the mining laser. LOL, if it had been my corp, and Joves had suckered me like this (to give my interpretation as a character (and assuming they'd have sold me (through intermediaries) the laser, and then come by to "magically" pick it up, thus scamming me out of 55 mill)), I'd have declared war on them in a fit of righteous anger . It wouldn't have done me any good, but I could've written quite some roleplayed out stories of trying to reach Jovian space, drifting in search of my own white whale, and so on. -- "Better have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." - True Romance
Ragnar	Posted - 2003.08.08 07:41:00 - [116] I posted this on another thread but thought perhaps it should go here. Incidentally, as always, Taggart has role-played the entire incident to help maintain the integrity of the game and the story line. See http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=23341 for that. Original post below: As CEO of Taggart (TTI), these are my first public OOC statements on the matter. What Saruu said in his original post is entirely true. Taggart bases its reputation on being solid and reputable businessmen. Yes we may be a so-called ômegacorpö, but our rising tide raises all the corps that conduct business with us. We have a symbiotic relationship with countless other good corps in EVE. A majority of the ones you see deriding us in public have many private deals already in place with us. It seemed PERFECTLY plausible to me that GMs were out there doing ômini-eventsö, having role-playing sessions in deep space, slowly distributing unique Jovian items here or there. This matches with the ômysteriousö Jovian theme the gameÆs RP is based on, and a slow introduction of this race into the gameÆs culture is expected. Furthermore, it is natural economic sense how the best items end up in the wealthiest corps. (As someone in another thread correctly posted: There is a reason the finest Alaskan Salmon ends up in New York City 24 hours later.) I found Saruu to be a wonderfully nice guy and an excellent role-player. In fact, most of my dealings with him in game were all very well role-played, as we discussed the nature of the Jovians and this strange encounter we had. Sure, he could have made up this elaborate story to ôtrickö me into buying a hacked item or whatever, but, again, the idea the GMs were out there introducing a few Jovian items made perfectly good sense. Every game has unique items here or there. Not enough to completely unbalance the game, but a few. Naturally we were gonna try to reverse engineer the thing, but I assume that when Rev Eng comes into the game that certain items have a very low likelihood of being reverse engineered. It also seemed reasonable to me that CCP wanted the Jovians and mysterious encounters to be discussed in a public forum, to add to the role-playing depth and the technological future of the game. In that belief, I worked on a few stories (http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=23341) about the incident in a pure role-playing manner for the intergalactic summit. I even included a picture of the Jovian ôt0rfifransö (btw, itÆs a shame Jovians have to use numbers in their names like late 1990Æs l33t Quake players) that Saruu emailed me to enhance the story I wrote. I have been accused of ôname droppingö, which is completely absurd because, to me, if a Jovian appears in game to hand out items and introduce the race, they can expect their name to become well known. You better believe the first alien that lands on Earth will have his name pretty well known, even if it can only be properly annunciated by dolphins. I didnÆt claim to be sitting at Starbucks having iced frappucinos with T0rfifrans every evening, I just simply included him in the story for the benefit of the role-playing community that was interested in this mysterious race, as this may have very well been ôfirst contactö, and Saruu had every reason to be excited by the prospect. So the usual cast of idiots and Taggart haters came out and called us cheaters and photoshoppers and exploiters then paraded around their cause du jour, only to be proven completely wrong less than 12 hours later by both CCP and Saruu. Yes, the story of Ragnar/Saruu conflicts with the story by CCP, and I am sure it will be settled at some point (Edit: thanks to Torfi it is now cleared up). Both stories certainly agree that that was no cheating, photoshopping, exploiting, or favors from people affiliated with CCP. With that salient fact, all you forum trolls with no life can go back to your Taggart-hating meditation pods and invent some other nonsensical reason to hate us now. Thank you again to Jade Constantine who has worked tirelessly with me in this matter to conduct herself in a professional and role-playing manner. I also thank the Venal Alliance and the few other supporters we had that new all along that Taggart was above reproach in the matter. - Ragnar Danneskj÷ld Taggart Transdimensional, Inc. http://www.taggarttransdimensional.com
Zentron	Posted - 2003.08.08 08:11:00 - [117] Fair enough; I hadn't seen the latest additions to that topic yet (stumbling out of bed the first thing in the morning isn't the best time to start replying when you haven't yet checked the full board (that's what work is for)), so in retrospect, my comment has been made on a slightly uninformed basis. Nice work. -- "Better have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." - True Romance
HavokTBP	Posted - 2003.08.08 08:22:00 - [118] If it were givin to me I wouldn't have sold it for even 200mil. An I certainly wouldn't tell anyone outside my corp. It's an unbalanced item as eve is now. I don't even have a tech 2 item cept for maybe cap rechargers, wtf is that about. If you guys wanna call it rare? Well rare items can be "found" again an as this can not be found, it is unfair. I pay for this game just as he does, how come I can't get this nifty piece of equipment, an he can? Mistakes should be corrected, parties compensated in full, not this bs role play it, it only irratates people. I'll wait 6 months till its offically out, but if its out now, then hey I want one too. Who wouldn't? That's what people are complaining about. Member of the Curse Alliance before the Corruption Leader of The Black Plague.
Jack Brennan	Posted - 2003.08.08 09:01:00 - [119] Good Job Torfi.. you done the right thing. CCP are indeed human.. we all make mistakes.. I dont agree with compensation though! The best solution here to me would be to remove the problem and any reprocussions attached to it in the eve world. Firstly, dont get the lvl5 miner back but change it into a lvl1 Miner 1. Secondly, remove all moneys paid for the item and or items purchased with it. (sorry corpless bloke but it plainly is not fair) Thirdly, Credit TTI back the money they payed for the said item, and for their roleplaying ignorance they get a free miner 1. and finally, Torfi Buys the CCP team chocolate bars and makes tea/coffee for the team for 1 week. Sorted! Jack Brennan
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2003.08.08 09:06:00 - [120] Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 08/08/2003 09:14:04 All you "it's unfair" whining monkeys should read J0sephine's post. She explained as best as possible. So TTI and Saruu might get some or a hefty ammount of cash for compensation? Good for them. Saruu got lucky meeting that Jovian then earned it by role playing the experience. TTI earned it by working their asses off to be wealthy and famous enough to attract the seller. Anyone that has a problem with that has issues. Now if you still can't understand or agree then i have a spoiler for you greedy whiney monkeys: You will die alone. Pain is meant to be felt
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.08 09:10:00 - [121] Personally, I think items like this 'should' be in game. Why explore, and look for stuff when you know that tech 1 is the best you will find, and you could have bought it at the station you started at? I explored for a couple of weeks hoping to find a totally uber item like this, before I gave it up, after realising I could get better equipment exploring the cans of NPC's. It's a shame people are rallying against having 'truly' rare (as in there is only one) items in the game. They would add a lot of spice. And give people more reasons to explore/meet people. Sadly, no matter who gets such a rare item, there will be public outcry. After this lynch-mob roadshow, do you honestly think anyone is going to admit to having such items any more? And seriously, it was only 3 times better than a standard one. And it was only one. Judging from the initial screen TTi posted, do you think one beam with triple the power would actually make much of a difference amongst the 30-40 other beams? If it could get noxcium out of veldspar, Then there would definitely be cause for argument, but as it stands, the reactions were mostly over the top. .
Needo	Posted - 2003.08.08 09:16:00 - [122] The guy gets to keep the money he sold it for? Then you can just as well let the corp keep the item, the imbalance is not at that end, they got what they paid for. The imbalance is some lucky dood getting loads and loads of isk dropped in his lap. ___________________________________________ You are never alone in schizophrenia. ___________________________________________
Detvig	Posted - 2003.08.08 09:22:00 - [123] I'm just glad to see that hisg tech level and jove content exists and can be added to the live server cluster at any time with out a patch. Cheers
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.08 09:39:00 - [124] "The imbalance is some lucky dood getting loads and loads of isk dropped in his lap." Uhmm, no... the possible imbalance was providing opportunity for a company to reverse-engineer a very advanced item and flood the market with its copies well before it was in the developers' plans.(as there's still 3 tech levels that have yet to be introduced before lvl.5) Which, according to offical statements and other posts made by TTi execs, was pretty much what TTi intended to do... :/
Saladin	Posted - 2003.08.08 09:46:00 - [125] I hope Torfi didn't get in trouble at work over this. I hope it isnt the sort of thing that CCP fire or otherwise punish for --------------------------- (c) Copyright Saladin, 2005. Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003.
Decide	Posted - 2003.08.08 09:59:00 - [126] Edited by: Decide on 08/08/2003 09:59:59 Giving every one 55 mil would be daft - it would just have the effect of inflating current market prices. Why not give the item "durabilty" so that after a set amount of usage it self-destructs. Then we can have a rare "trophy" item that is next to useless.
Riddari	Posted - 2003.08.08 10:04:00 - [127] What I really want is to throw myself down and conduct a temper-tantrum of the finest quality to see what it feels like to be one of the miserable souls that say "I didn't get one! I want 55m now!". However that is pointless as I'm alone at my office and the people who should be ashamed can't see me to become more ashamed. Everyone that says they'll quit over this, please please do. You are clearly not getting the point of the backstory and of roleplaying. Personally my grievances with the Ayn Rand philosophy (where society is abolished in favor of the jungle law) have made me look at TTI with scornful eyes (the jungle law does work in EVE though, since it's not real life (a shock to the should be ashamed )). However TTI have gained more respect from me during this event/fiasco. Kudos to them. ¼©¼ a history
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.08.08 11:14:00 - [128] On the whole I think some kudos is due for CCP and the artist chap (Torfi) for making the best they could out of the little fiasco. Hearts were in the right place, and the intentions were good, cool, lets move on and cross our fingers that the next roleplaying-orientated event is publicised, though as DrunkenMaster says, I do fear there is a going to be some future reluctance to go public with this stuff given past forum reactions and the more violent condemnation of oneÆs peers oftimes revealed. Re the compensation (55million) everyone-should-have-it-pseudo-rant à itÆs clearly nonsense. The Saruu chap earned the finders fee for having the fortune to come across a ôjovianö à the wit to start a conversation, and the imagination to roleplay with the guy. And for thereby introducing a bit of interest and circumstance into the game world I donÆt begrudge him the isk one bit. I suggest anyone who does takes a step back and considers the rate at which isk acquisition typically occurs for established characters; when I am ôworkingö productively in-game I typically make 10m isk every couple of hours, and at best, yep could do 55m in an evening personally, and this by relatively routine commerce and marginal endeavours. (And certainly not with the use regional buy-orders either!) Now a generic explorer character has no such regular income and often spends long periods in fruitless travelling and toil without reward, faces dangers from illegals and brigands, and is thrown entirely on personal resources when peril threatens. (once upon a time Jericho had such a fellow as a Director of Exploration named ôthe grimpö à he ninja-mined for chump change and explored the far flung systems of eve for rare sights and sounds à once getting podded 13 times by mOo corp for approaching sites of local interest! But never did he find anything of real value aside from the pride of doing these things) But the point is that these chaps need incentive to spend their time exploring, and the prospect of the 55million ôfindö is the sort of thing that will provide this. Sure, not on a regular basis, and certainly not for the discovery of game-breaking blueprints etc, but for the occasional high-tech item? What really is the problem? I for one have no issue whatsoever with CCP introducing plot to lone pilots out exploring the environment à itÆs the ultimate balancing quirk of fate that can see a lonely wanderer turned into a galactic personality overnight. And I certainly feel that something like the 55million ôfinders feeö is not out of kilter with the economic realities of eve at the moment. What I think this storm of controversy has brought to sharp contrast are the divisions between eveÆs roleplay and non-roleplay communities. And itÆs clearly something that sticks in the craw of the pure pvp-red-in-tooth-and-claw brigade that an ordinary character could gain something special by simply having a conversation with a gm-played character peddling plot and rare equipment. But à guys à these things happen, they do in real-lifeÖ as well, lots of circumstance and fortunate events occur for those willing to be open and friendly and communicative. If you walk around close-minded and snarling all the time then you arenÆt going to benefit from either the kindness of strangers or the chance meeting that brings a lifetime friendship and bold creative partnership of likeminded souls. There are more ways of playing this game than simple violent kill-or-be-killed absolutist full-tilt brutality. I commend CCP for this brave intention; and hope in time more people will come to see the advantage and flexibility of this approach. And hell, instead of being jealous of the chapÆs 55m isk windfall, just go make some personal isk guys and be in a position to bid next time the jovian artefacts come on the market. Or find another goal in-game à itÆs not all about money and modules à thereÆs politics too, and therein lies a lovely can of in-character worms ;) Love and peace. JF Public Forum
Kel 'dra	Posted - 2003.08.08 11:38:00 - [129] I just wanna see a printscreen... anyone wanna share :)
corporal hicks	Posted - 2003.08.08 11:50:00 - [130] I don't know what alot of you are whining about the miner is here the money is spent and thats it. do ccp replace my stuff when I lose it to bugs..NO so they lost a miner ahhh..thats sad now deal with it. TTI are within there rights to keep the item, if they lost it due to bug in game would ccp replace it for them? the answer is no. In a round about way ccp lost a miner to a player within the game Ironic or what and now ccp want it back..my answer is tell ccp to file a petition with TTI and wait for reply This is my opinion on this, I think everyone involved in this done it all within the rules of the game. So TTI got a new mining laser they have over 100 members or more is it really going to unbalance a corp of that size? Corporal Hicks Director Weylan Yutani Corp. " Stay Frosty "
Aradennise	Posted - 2003.08.08 11:57:00 - [131] There were 10 of these mining lasers in the game for a few weeks. CCP is trying to get them ALL back at the moment. Its not just Sanruu that got this item, many other people got the same item aswell. So here is the question: Have these people been using these lasers for the past weeks? I imagine they could accumilate a nice load of ore with them :)
Tilihad	Posted - 2003.08.08 12:01:00 - [132] I say let it stay in game...CCP pretty much threw game balance out the window with the rare loot drop nerfing and pirate boosting causing anyone that start the game now the inability to make huge amounts of money just by fighting using a frigate...i can't see how one (or two or three) mining lasers are going to make things worse..i am enjoying the game as it is right now and don't think things should be changed....a ccp artist made a mistake but it was roleplayed well so should've just been left in the game...at least that way when Reverse Engineering came out TTI could start producing them and then we would all have a chance to get one sooner than if we had to wait for CCP to officially release them.
Daesdemona	Posted - 2003.08.08 12:10:00 - [133] I say, LOCK THIS THREAD PLEASEEEEE ----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" -----------------------------------------------
Athren Soulsteal	Posted - 2003.08.08 13:11:00 - [134] Get a grip ppl. I have no problems with anyone getting one of these. Just like I have no problme with the people that hit the caravans that dropped all the harvestor drones. You don't think the made 50 mil of the drone sales? Why is no one complaning about other people getting CU vapors which are no longer available. Bottom line, if the item must be removed the only way I woulod have it done would be to simply have the item stop functioning. RP: The incompadablity of the item caused it to mal function, and cause it's unknow tech can not be repaired. As far as compensation, all the involved parties have already been compensated. And too the GM that gave the item away, did we learn nothing from history. It was a carless visitor that gave bobble to a friendly human that allowed them to leapfrog 1000s of years ahead thus giving us the ability to colonize other galaxys millinia before we should have.
Elusion Salvage	Posted - 2003.08.08 13:45:00 - [135] Quote: Edited by: t0rfiFrans on 07/08/2003 18:27:42 Regards Torfi Frans Lead Artist CCP Games Justed wanted to say.. Thanks you came forward with it. (Thumbs up) Thanks to CCP as well for finding a desent way to solve the mather. This is the first time i have seen a delicate issue being admitted in online games. Best way to deal with such issues. Senceer regards, Elusion Salvage.
Kel 'dra	Posted - 2003.08.08 13:45:00 - [136] Quote: Why is no one complaning about other people getting CU vapors which are no longer available. They are no longer available? I got one off pirate drop yesterday....
Ayn Rand	Posted - 2003.08.08 14:07:00 - [137] Edited by: Ayn Rand on 08/08/2003 14:09:22 A quick note. This "55 million" is a figure that people keep using. That is NOT what Taggart paid for it (as Saruu himself has said). Saruu asked for something else, something unique to his situation, something that will remain undisclosed. Taggart does many more things than simply accept "ISK" deals, as all corps do. Furthermore, no "ISK" value can be put on the accumulated man days, resources expended, blueprints used, military escorts, etc that went into the delivery of the trade item(s)/service(s)/ongoing deal(s) which Taggart will of course honor. Also note we are very much under the "thumb" in this situation and will roleplay the situation with the Jovians. About an hour from now Ragnar will be meeting with the Jovian eldars (I assume Ragnar will post a follow up to this story with details of the Jovian meeting, if they decide to allow such information into the Empire) who say they have an offer he cannot refuse. That offer may very well be "We will allow you to leave alive," an offer that is indeed hard to resist. Also, thank you Jade Constantine. You have indeed shown yourself to be a true friend of reason, rational thought, and capitalism. I am in your debt. Ayn Rand Taggart Ayn Rand - Taggart
Byterider	Posted - 2003.08.08 14:49:00 - [138] We so ~powa!
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2003.08.08 15:35:00 - [139] Can I have one of these lasers ?
slothe	Posted - 2003.08.08 16:19:00 - [140] best content yet. please do not negotiate to get the item back. lets have an inter race war or something. this may have been a mistake but its best thing to happen to game yet. let some more stuff like this happen....... Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public" http://www.khainestar.com/eve
Draaven	Posted - 2003.08.08 17:07:00 - [141] Torfi, I have to say that I am awed with the artwork that you and your team have produced for Eve. To put it mildly, it is absolutely stunning. I've never seen anything like it before, and I'm quite sure there's nothing else out there that can come close. For myself and a lot of other players that I spend my online time with, it's the key component of what makes the Eve universe so addicting (it offsets issues still being worked out, and enriches the gameplay by leaps and bounds). I'm still amazed just docking at stations. The scale of everything is insane. I'm sorry it took an incident like this to gain you the recognition that you deserve, but hey--"stuff" happens. I would find it disturbing if the involved parties were anything less than completely cooperative in returning the item. At any rate, to you and the rest of the Eve Team, please--keep up the superb work. You guys have created a true masterpiece. These forums represent a tough crowd, a lot of them will never be happy. Don't worry about them--just keep up your tweaking and refinements, and they'll keep paying. Best wishes, Draaven
t0rfiFrans	Posted - 2003.08.08 17:30:00 - [142] Quote: Torfi, I have to say that I am awed with the artwork that you and your team have produced for Eve. Thanks Draaven. It should be noted though that it is Reynir Hardarsson who is Art Director / founder of CCP and deserves a lot of the credit for the look and feel of EVE. Torfi
Draaven	Posted - 2003.08.08 17:45:00 - [143] Edited by: Draaven on 08/08/2003 17:46:21 Quote: It should be noted though that it is Reynir Hardarsson who is Art Director / founder of CCP and deserves a lot of the credit for the look and feel of EVE. Then I tip my hat to him as well, not only for having the vision of a universe like Eve, but for having the remarkable talent and relentless drive required to turn it into a virtual reality as well.
Skel	Posted - 2003.08.08 18:07:00 - [144] Anyone wanna buy a jove mining laser tech 5 that I got off a 2k pirate? Ill sell it for 55million isk
Dragon Emperor	Posted - 2003.08.08 19:20:00 - [145] Edited by: Dragon Emperor on 08/08/2003 19:21:45 If this time(the 2nd version of your story) IS true, then a dev/gm put his personal effect in game to a selected person/corp on a live server, Do I state it correct? If yes, then you were against EVERY MMORPG RULE. period.
Aleister Crowley	Posted - 2003.08.08 19:26:00 - [146] J0sephine, and others pro this happening. I hope you all feel the same way when your shiny new BS gets destroyed because some CCP employee decided that player X could have tech level 5 Large tach beams. Also too all those in favor of this interaction should not complain about exploits, griefers and CTDs because those are in game too and hey they have RP back stories too: Area loaded with cans: Let's deploy thousands of cannisters so that the on-board computers will overload. Griefers: I was kicked out of "starting corp" and must seek revenge on all of it's participants, thuse griefing newbs in 1.0. CTD: Emp storm, total blackout. Systems should be nominal in (about same time it takes to relog). Yeah we can RP anything we want. However at what point does it become a form of cheating, bad code, or griefing? Also too where is the statement of how they plan on preventing this in the future or catching other CCP employees from helping out their friends etc... Or is this how the game is to work from here on out? First person a CCP employee sees gets the ONLY BP for hybrid ships just because? I don't see this as a "fair/unfair" thing I see this as weakening the integrity of the game. If one person does it you can damn well bet someone else is doing it. Thus my comment of buttering up CCP employees for out of bounds gains. This IS what happened. Call it RP or whatever you want. Is the new consideration of doing well in this game now based off of my RL social skills? I have NP RPing and I do it in-game all the time. However in this case RP was an excuse to abuse the rules of the game. A game is only as valuable as it's rules are adhered and enforced. Plain and simple. So is this the new rule? I must butter up CCP employees to gain advantage over the rest of the eve population? And no this DOES NOT mirror RL. In RL Technology is come up with by hard work and thousands of man hours in Labs usually by a bunch of balding, overly stressed scientists. Then it is stolen by spys who have been groomed from birth to infiltrate. The RL equivalent would be God popping out of the sky and saying here your body is now immortal. Something completely un-attainable by any other person. 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'
Milos Oberonov	Posted - 2003.08.08 20:31:00 - [147] Quote: sipping absinthe, eyeing the Jovian with disdain Let us not be disdainful, sir. After all, as they say, "Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder." "Those who beat their swords into plowshares will one day plow for those who don't." -T. Jefferson
nails	Posted - 2003.08.08 20:43:00 - [148] It's like a gift from the future lol. ------------------ http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
Jaabaa	Posted - 2003.08.08 20:48:00 - [149] OMG, what a week I missed being away on business As I understand it, a dev dropped 2 tech level 5 mining lasers into a tech level 1 system. IMHO this should happen to me Be real, get a life, and accept the fact that people can make mistakes. About giving everyone 55M isk, no thanks, he money I have was worked for, not a present. And all this uproar about theses lasers ? . . . . Tell me TTI is using it :) Let's see if I can get it after blowing the miner using it into space dust Be real, 1 (or 2) mining laser(s) are not going to totally destabalize the game. -- Jaabaa - CEO - Dental Drilling Corporation
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.08 21:07:00 - [150] Edited by: j0sephine on 08/08/2003 21:29:16 "J0sephine, and others pro this happening. I hope you all feel the same way when your shiny new BS gets destroyed because some CCP employee decided that player X could have tech level 5 Large tach beams. (..)" Mr. Crowley, i wrote a fairly lengthy and detailed response to your note, which then unfortunately fell prey to some cryptic 'scripting error' of the forum. Since i can't really bring myself to type it all yet again, here's a rundown: * no, wouldn't mind losing a ship to much better equipped enemy; no, don't care if it sounds hard to believe. * if one cannot believe the impartiality of CCP employees running RP event, perhaps consequently they shouldn't also believe the game code and scripting is 'clean', being how it's done by the people of the very same company. If we're to be paranoid, at least let's make it a full-blown paranoia. * i don't mind the griefers; equaling GMs with exploits (players' abuse of bugged code) and CTDs (direct results of bugged code) is really silly. * please provide your own, possibly detailed, idea how more advanced items should be introduced to the players. At this point would honestly love to see solution which wouldn't cause at least half of playerbase start the "it's unfair!" riot. * the research in EVE is not a mirror of research in RL. the background stories provide some good details on this issue. Neither way of acquring new tech in EVE described in those stories is "fair". * the RL equivalent of the situation in question wouldn't involve God. It'd rather involve an UFO scooping one up and giving them a lollipop as compensation for sticking a probe up their ass. Which, minus the lollipop part, supposedly happens often enough to make some people wear tinfoil hats and never leave their house. :s
Hydroxide	Posted - 2003.08.08 21:26:00 - [151] Well that is the problem thankfully it was a artist and not some gm/polaris guy picked up off of beta that is in some carebear alliance like everyone else. Otherwise it would of been magicly given to one of the carebear corps directly and you would never know about it. I personaly have no problems with storyline / role play stuff my biggest problem comes from the total biastness against the pk corps that has sprung up time and time again. Corps like TTI and other carebear fruitcakes cry and the devs/gm's bend over backwards to replace there **. Yet corps like moo and i am sure mega have a bp vanish tons of ships lost to bugs and other bull and it takes a week or two just to get a responce cuz one gm don't like them and tosses the petition to the lowest proirity possible. Best bet right now in eve is to stay and carebear and never pk cuz if you lose your ** to bugs you can kiss it goodbye now if carebear corp calls exploit or whines boom new ship/equipment. Our corp is about to lose another player cuz they have waited 3 weeks for a responce to a single petition yet the typical responce time is only 2-8 hours. Case and point. It's all fine and dandy to roleplay but it's another thing to target player groups and help them out.
Jebba IV	Posted - 2003.08.08 21:45:00 - [152] let me get one thing straight i understand the idea the dev had to give it away. but hell this is a mmog i bet the devs never played one as they would know how **** works then :o...things like this shouldnt happen period
PropanElgen	Posted - 2003.08.08 21:47:00 - [153] I don't believe Calladen Nimitz for a minute when he says they don't use the mininglaser. I bet they strapped it on a huge indy and go thru roids like crazy All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
Aleister Crowley	Posted - 2003.08.08 22:07:00 - [154] J0sephine, ""* no, wouldn't mind losing a ship to much better equipped enemy; no, don't care if it sounds hard to believe."" It does sound hard to believe especially if it were a case of an employee stepping out of his bounds to introduce the weapons that destroyed you. ""* if one cannot believe the impartiality of CCP employees running RP event, perhaps consequently they shouldn't also believe the game code and scripting is 'clean', being how it's done by the people of the very same company. If we're to be paranoid, at least let's make it a full-blown paranoia."" Well if it were a scheduled RP event and intended to happen my belief of impartialality would have gone unshaken. This however was an arbitrary decision made by an employee, so hardly qualifies as RP event. ""* i don't mind the griefers; equaling GMs with exploits (players' abuse of bugged code) and CTDs (direct results of bugged code) is really silly."" Nor do I mind the griefers but I'm pretty sure a few of the 'yays' here do. Was just pickig the three largest forum "issues". ""* please provide your own, possibly detailed, idea how more advanced items should be introduced to the players. At this point would honestly love to see solution which wouldn't cause at least half of playerbase start the "it's unfair!" riot."" As I've not the time to go into too much details I think some guidelies to follow would be: 1) Other Tech level 2 stuff first. With improved Tech 2 stuff starting to show up in hard to find places. 2) Rogue Jove ships being spotted in multiple AND random locations that could be destroyed and looted. 3) Stationary Jove encounters where those with improved Jove faction could engage in dialog and or run a mission for them to get items of value. Again something appropriate to a 'next step' tech 2, low end tech 3 possibly. Essentially I would create multiple avenues to acquiring the technology that fit many of the common playstyles: Captured Gift for finished mission Purchased Stolen Found etc... Something that allows for all players regardless their play styles to work towards and achieve. ""* the research in EVE is not a mirror of research in RL. the background stories provide some good details on this issue. Neither way of acquring new tech in EVE described in those stories is "fair"."" Not sure why you are pushing the "fair" button as this game cannot possibly be ultimately fair. Some people will do better than others through luck and play time. However knowing the rules makes the game playable. Inability to know or a 'no rules' situation makes for nothing but frustration. ""* the RL equivalent of the situation in question wouldn't involve God. It'd rather involve an UFO scooping one up and giving them a lollipop as compensation for sticking a probe up their ass. Which, minus the lollipop part, supposedly happens often enough to make some people wear tinfoil hats and never leave their house."" :s Actually it would involve the concept of God because what has happened is TRULY un-attainable by any other. In your analogy you are talking physical things. Any technology that UFOs had COULD be duplicated and used against them to secure their technology. Where in this case NOTHING a player can do could duplicate the situation. Had it been a Jove NPC I would agree with you. However this was an employee doing things that simply CANNOT happen without his direct involvement. This whole thing was either ok or not. If not then it is up to CCP to reassure it's customers that similar 'not ok' things aren't taking place. If it is ok then tell us so I can move on to another game for the same reason I don't play the lotto or bingo. 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'
Yalson	Posted - 2003.08.08 22:17:00 - [155] Quote: I don't believe Calladen Nimitz for a minute when he says they don't use the mininglaser. I bet they strapped it on a huge indy and go thru roids like crazy The playerbase surprises me again and again. You are basically calling another player a liar. Did he give you any indication so far that he might not say the truth? Sheesh. At least that's a bet you're going to lose, it's just going to be a bit hard to prove for either side.
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.08.08 22:42:00 - [156] "I don't believe Calladen Nimitz for a minute when he says they don't use the mininglaser. I bet they strapped it on a huge indy and go thru roids like crazy" Don't be too surprised Yalson. Its like President Bush, some people don't believe anything he says even if it is obviously is true. Obviously this type of attitude is present here in the game as well. The brains at work here can't comprehend if you had a device that was one of a kind and knew reverse engineering was coming in the game you sure wouldn't risk it in a ship. I mean even mounted on a battleship there is always risk. From tests the output of this laser was several times more then a standard laser but the fact remains it was ONE laser. On a personal note I don't lie to people for a living. If your "comments" were roleplaying please let me know and I'll accept that as I am after all a capitalist after money and not some charity case. Otherwise an apology is appropriate from you although given the playerbase and its comments when this incident first came up (carebear, exploiter, Polaris conspirator, cheater, friend of CCP) I think I can honestly say its not expected. Calladen Nimitz
Aleister Crowley	Posted - 2003.08.08 23:00:00 - [157] Who cares if TTI used it? They didn't cheat. A CCP employee did. That is like blaming a basketball player for not calling a foul on himself. It doesn't nor will it EVER happen. It's not their job. TTI pays to play like the rest of the eve community and is only bound by the same EULA we all agree to. If it is in game it is up to a ref/GM to call foul period. CCP cheated, and due to the lack of regard for the instance apparently condones cheating. Kind of cheap if you ask me. Also doesn't seem very business savvy. 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'
Mikka MacKern	Posted - 2003.08.08 23:26:00 - [158] Quote: Otherwise an apology is appropriate from you although given the playerbase and its comments when this incident first came up (carebear, exploiter, Polaris conspirator, cheater, friend of CCP) I think I can honestly say its not expected. Calladen Nimitz Oh you poor injured little darling. Im sure unkie-wunkie Wagnar will make the nasty little boy say sowy.
Karen de Winter	Posted - 2003.08.08 23:27:00 - [159] Quote: Don't be too surprised Yalson. Its like President Bush, some people don't believe anything he says even if it is obviously is true. Heheheheh. No comment on that, because it's political, but it's given me a laugh. "You go to certain death" "All death is certain"
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.08.09 00:23:00 - [160] Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 09/08/2003 00:26:08 "Oh you poor injured little darling. " Not at all. Your reply proves my point about the way some people are. Since I assume real life is often interjected here your reaction clearly shows what type of person you probably are in real life. I think your words speak for themselves. Calladen Nimitz
torfiFrans	Posted - 2003.08.09 00:24:00 - [161] Quote: Quote: Torfi, I have to say that I am awed with the artwork that you and your team have produced for Eve. Thanks Draaven. It should be noted though that it is Reynir Hardarsson who is Art Director / co-founder of CCP and deserves a lot of the credit for the look and feel of EVE. Torfi Torfi Frans eve dev ( lead artist ) CCP http://this.is/torfi
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2003.08.09 09:46:00 - [162] Quote: CCP cheated, and due to the lack of regard for the instance apparently condones cheating. Kind of cheap if you ask me. Also doesn't seem very business savvy. You make me laugh Aleister Crowley. You sir are a buffoon that doesn't even merit a responce but i ll answer ya anyway. T0rtifrans didn' cheat nor did CCP. Accidentally dropping a level 5 tech item as a reward for something doesn't translate to cheating in any book. CCP being rational human beings, unlike you, made a public announcement and are now quietly and in a nice RP fashion reciftying the mistakes. People confuse the I PAY = I RULE. When you pay you put your trust into CCP to make this gaming experience enjoyable and fair. They RULE not you. If they want to listen to the playerbase they will if not it's their right not to, however unwise that may be. You just have the option to leave and stop paying. "Also doesn't seem very business savvy" i take this as a "i ll leave threat". Door is -----> way. Pain is meant to be felt
Lutok	Posted - 2003.08.10 01:28:00 - [163] I think it's sad when CCP totally unbalances the economy like this. To fix a mistake they give away Miner 2 BPC's. Needless to say, many people I've spoken to feel this is far from fair. The fix to the mistake is worse than the mistake itself. It would have been better to simply give the players the money the paid for the laser(s) than to do something as absurd as this. I hope CCP listens to the vast majority of the players and not the select few. I sure hope Miner 2 blueprints are in the upcoming patch. Honestly, screw that, fix the damn CTD's :( Lutok
Carmine Tylus	Posted - 2003.08.10 06:25:00 - [164] You people talk to much... U could be mining bistot right now you know
SpeedoMan	Posted - 2003.08.12 06:25:00 - [165] fyi - niebelung stats = 148 ore units per activation - ie 60 seconds. Original miner 1 is about 48 ore units per minute. That's only about 3.5x better, not 10x, and you can't even fit this item onto most frigates, it would require a cruiser or a good combo of skills, items, and high level frigate. Any cruiser can fit 4 Cu vapors, or XeCl miners, or Gaussians, which would add up to approximately 200 - 240 ore per minute. HMMM, who would REALLY be farther ahead here? Do the math... The concern & outrage is understandable... but be logical. If someone was given 20+ of these beams then yes, big problem. 1-2 is nothing. They're teasing you. Soban... red all the way through and through
Ruffles	Posted - 2003.08.12 09:25:00 - [166] I would like to thank torfiFrans for having the honesty to come forward and tell part of the story. Its nice to see that in these days. I do think that perhaps the fix would have been simpler if: A) Debit seller of the cash they received. B) Credit cash back to buyer. C) Run script to delete item from game. Perhaps the following which is now history could have been more easily avoided. Still, I think that the respect should be given to the person for coming forward about this issue. I just hope that in the future there is some agreement of staff interaction, as things like this could just damage a companies perceived standing with their customers. Still, thanks for your honest. That means more, as we sometimes don't hear much back from CCP.
Anla Shok	Posted - 2003.08.12 11:44:00 - [167] Edited by: Anla Shok on 12/08/2003 11:50:25 Edited by: Anla Shok on 12/08/2003 11:47:30 to all people saying we mined millions and billions of ore with this 1 laser, we did not. the item was not used but for the one time for the screenshot. if you believe me, fine. if not, dont. wheter you believe it or not does not change facts. torfi, thank you for posting this in the first place, i have the greatest respect for everyone who admits a mistake. the graphics you made for this game are incredible, the models are wonderful and the style of EVE is so good for me that i think i will forever compare other graphics to this game. thank you for making it. Anla Shok Executive, TTI
Karash Amerius	Posted - 2003.08.12 13:19:00 - [168] Quote: Edited by: Dragon Emperor on 08/08/2003 19:21:45 If this time(the 2nd version of your story) IS true, then a dev/gm put his personal effect in game to a selected person/corp on a live server, Do I state it correct? If yes, then you were against EVERY MMORPG RULE. period. Where can I get a copy of this rulebook?
DJvGalen	Posted - 2003.08.12 13:31:00 - [169] Quote: to all people saying we mined millions and billions of ore with this 1 laser, we did not. the item was not used but for the one time for the screenshot. if you believe me, fine. if not, dont. wheter you believe it or not does not change facts. I think some people, me included, got a tremendous shock seeing that particular screenshot of dozens of mining ships with the ship taking the screenshot having 7-8 mining lasers with one of them showing the info of the tech 5 laser. 1+1= WTF, all those guys using tech 5 miners ??? Can we now lock this thread and kill all new tech talk please ? Growing quite fed up with constantly having this blunder from CCP rubbed into my face. And yes, I know, I don't have to read, but I keep reading cause I hope to see a sparkle of light that will push me back to renew my subscription that runs out in october. ------------------------------------------------ CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon.
M4ya	Posted - 2003.12.23 03:39:00 - [170] lol
Eris Discordia	Posted - 2004.02.03 00:12:00 - [171] Please, do not bump old threads. Thank you I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions.

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