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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
ElweSingollo
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Posted - 2005.11.10 20:32:00 -
[241]
 Originally by: Silmas
Wouldn't it be much more wise to actually hear from the people that _were_ protesting there what happened, why it happened and all that?
From what I've heard, there were present only like 6-7 4S, and I am only aware of two characters that got banned for spamming of shuttles.
My knowledge about situation is as much as hearsay and rumors as is yous, but my understanding of the situation is:
- In Jita tere were hundreds of other corp members, and few 4S.
- Couple characters (exact amount unknown, not all 4S) went overboard and spammed shuttles, and got rightfully banned.
- The whole blame is laid on 4S, who were easy scapegoats (not only by forum spammers, but also by ISD member).
Now, correct me if I am wrong, but that's my part of hearsay. I wonder if we'll ever find out the real truth...
Umm unfortunate as it pains me to yet again point it out Eris did not say anywhere that 4s were responsible for the node crash or server crash, as her own posts state if you care to read them she merely stated the possibility that 4S may be involved in it. Perhaps that was unfortunate due to the way everyone yourself and probably myself to an extent included have jumped the gun and considered blame laid or seen to have been laid at the door of 4S but do not try and put words into the mouths of people when that is not what they said.
Eris quoted below for clarity 
Originally by: Eris
Some of the nodes are down, a incident happend in Jita and the corporation mentioned above may play a part in this
CCP and the GM's know what happend and are investigating it. Please leave it up to them to decide what needs to be done.
If you insist on creating threads on this subject or replying to them the entire time you will be banned for 24 hours.
Update one node and one proxy are the casualities it seems, this means some people can log in and many others cant.
New Update: Dear players. The server will be rebooted in 15 minutes at 01.00 eve time. Players are unable to log into the server due to what we believe to be a proxy error. Make sure your character is out of harms way. We apologize for this inconvenience. - GM Team
Maximum signature size exceeded. Maximum size is 400*120 and 24000 bytes. - Teblin <--- Oops been a bad boy :D
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ElweSingollo
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Posted - 2005.11.10 20:48:00 -
[242]
Edited by: ElweSingollo on 10/11/2005 20:55:53
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 10/11/2005 13:23:11
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
If they blow up part of the road with pedestrians walking on them then hell yeah, theyÆd be shot on sight. These players didnÆt æblock the roadÆ, they brought the entire road, and every single other road in the country down.
Ok, but your analogy is now the flawed one.
A stretch of road that the protester block is on a bridge. The bridge displays no specific weight limit or restriction.
The bridge already has its usual traffic in addition to the protesters.
The bridge collapses after the protest.
Protesters fault?
Yet in fairness Avon to use your own annalogy the Bridge had great huge warning signs on it in regards to the number of people in the hub systems it is well documented that they were straining under the load so to put a similar analogy.
You cross a bridge (Esa) it collapses there is no warning sign so you sue the owner of the bridge
You cross a bridge (Jita) it has big huge warnings saying stay away it collapses it's your fault cause you ignored the warning signs.
Although to be strictly fair at the end of the day it is all so much presupposition as wee don't know for sure the birdge did collapse cause of the extra people on it.... my head hurts  .
Edit: Appologies to the forum mods if this overstep your bounds laid out in the earlier post re arguing (discussing I prefer to call it) didnt see yours until after I had replied to these two if you wish them removed please mail me  .
Also Avon what I said before about you cancelling your accounts still stands hope you make the right desicion for you.
Maximum signature size exceeded. Maximum size is 400*120 and 24000 bytes. - Teblin <--- Oops been a bad boy :D
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Zenst
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Posted - 2005.11.10 21:26:00 -
[243]
Respect CCP for not only fairly resolving this but also admiting that you initialy handeled it wrongly.
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Silmas
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Posted - 2005.11.10 22:05:00 -
[244]
Originally by: ElweSingollo
Umm unfortunate as it pains me to yet again point it out Eris did not say anywhere that 4s were responsible for the node crash or server crash, as her own posts state if you care to read them she merely stated the possibility that 4S may be involved in it. Perhaps that was unfortunate due to the way everyone yourself and probably myself to an extent included have jumped the gun and considered blame laid or seen to have been laid at the door of 4S but do not try and put words into the mouths of people when that is not what they said.
If there is a stickied topic in General Discussions like "EVE Server, Jita and 4s. Reboot" - it doesn't need much general sense to find out who ppl aer going to blame for the lag and reboot.
Yes, it was a mistake from ISD. Yes, it should be apologized.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.11.10 22:16:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Winterblink
Edited by: Winterblink on 10/11/2005 19:49:50
Time to move on, I think.
And Avon, come on. Stay onboard. Someone has to be the community's cynical, grizzled veteran. Those are some tough shoes to fill. :)
Well, I'm paid up until 9th December, so no hurry to decide. The other account I cancelled ends much sooner, but I'll let that lapse for a while, no biggy.
If a suitably cynical forum replacement hasn't been found in time I'll take that in to account when making my final descision.
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The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Shiraz Merlot
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Posted - 2005.11.10 22:31:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: kieron
Originally by: Winterblink
*hands everyone one of these*
If the box for a tech 2 tissue is gold, what is a tech 3 box made of? 
Platinum. Duh.
Neophite!
/SM
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Darken Two
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Posted - 2005.11.10 22:33:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 10/11/2005 15:51:25
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 10/11/2005 11:22:34
Originally by: Mallikanth
Try and communicate my feelings to CCP (which you've more than adequatly done)
if that fails then LEAVE.
I have already said my accounts have been cancelled, so why bother ranting at me?
If your account is cancelled why are you ranting at us? Atleast you're not insinuating some anti-serbian bull**** like Darken and others, but please, get a grip. See how quickly something like this would get swept under the rug by SOE or Blizzard, and met with a "like it or leave" response from them. You might not like what's happened, but the way it was handled was far better than what any other MMO company would've done.
And no, people banned for their highly disruptive protest should not be unbanned early, just as someone who commits a crime of passion/in the heat of the moment, is not exempt of punishment in the real world.
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 10/11/2005 13:23:11
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
If they blow up part of the road with pedestrians walking on them then hell yeah, theyÆd be shot on sight. These players didnÆt æblock the roadÆ, they brought the entire road, and every single other road in the country down.
Ok, but your analogy is now the flawed one.
A stretch of road that the protester block is on a bridge. The bridge displays no specific weight limit or restriction.
The bridge already has its usual traffic in addition to the protesters.
The bridge collapses after the protest.
Protesters fault?
Yes, because everyone with some intelligence knows that everything has a weight limit. If someone were to stack thousands of tons of metal on the gold gate bridge, and the bridge would collapse, would you blame the engineers? You're pretty much saying that it's CCP's fault that having those extra hundreds of ships in the same location causes lag.
I wasn't insinuating any anti-serbian bullcrap by CCP. I was pointing out that they should have done better researh before making decisions and then making public threats abot ban-sticks about anyone trying to discuss it. And why are you getting all worked up about it? You think a few hours of your game time is worth more fairness in the game? Anyway this discussion is pointless. Whats done is done. No good can come off further discussion along these lines.
Originally by: Blind Fear
Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
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Dargon Starjammer
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Posted - 2005.11.10 23:22:00 -
[248]
Edited by: Dargon Starjammer on 10/11/2005 23:22:45
Originally by: Wrangler
Originally by: Dargon Starjammer
Keiron and Wrangler get paid?
 I thought they just got there eve accounts without monthly fees.
Kieron is the Community Manager and works for CCP, he gets paid. I'm a volunteer and I don't work for CCP, so I don't get paid. 
ahh so you just live under the computer desks at the ccp office and eat the donuts in the coffee lounge?
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.11.10 23:40:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Wrangler
No, but bypassing it isn't allowed, so don't do it again - Wrangler
If i had a roflcoptor-hat id put it... 
You have to admit, filtering out normal words and telling people to get around the filter to make their story readable is a wee bit silly. But ohwell.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Santiac
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Posted - 2005.11.10 23:40:00 -
[250]
Can only admire that CCP apologized, takes quite a bit to do that as an authority - well done. As so many has said before me, thanks for still managing to make this a unique game, simply by being the devs of it. :)
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<insert clever/witty comment here>
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Beringe
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Posted - 2005.11.11 03:06:00 -
[251]
I'm glad the sky isn't falling, after all.
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Sometimes, I wake up but keep on dreaming. |
Saul Dhampir
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Posted - 2005.11.11 11:13:00 -
[252]
I am not totaly familier with what happened but I am delighted for all involved that it is resolved.
I want to say how fantastic it is that CCP care about there customers and player base so much they they will hold there hand up when they are wrong and change things. This is rare, its a massive benifit you have CCP, hold on to it!
I only wish now that CCP would take over Star Wars Gallaxies and teach SOE/Lucas Arts the art or customer service, as the difference in the way they treat there players is astonishing.
Go CCP.
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.11.11 14:17:00 -
[253]
Originally by: ElweSingollo
Also this post
I heart all, some more then others though. |
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Tsun
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Posted - 2005.11.11 14:51:00 -
[254]
Edited by: Tsun on 11/11/2005 14:54:45
Avon, stay, you are a true asset to this community
/me bows in respect !
Thanks alot aswell for supporting our case !
EDIT:
4S Official Statement
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.11.11 15:13:00 -
[255]
I read the announcement 4S, and to be honest if people started writing on these forums how my corp name was linked to some war criminals, thus indicating that I supported them id be pretty damn annoyed too.
Good job fighting your corner. Im glad CCP sorted this mess out, hell, no ones perfect after all.
-
Just a simple warrior.
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Qingu
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Posted - 2005.11.11 15:31:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Tsun
Edited by: Tsun on 11/11/2005 14:54:45
Avon, stay, you are a true asset to this community
/me bows in respect !
Thanks alot aswell for supporting our case !
EDIT:
4S Official Statement
Well, Avon was considering staying, but after the way he was treated today I think it very unlikely.
Sorry.
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Ti anna
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Posted - 2005.11.11 15:36:00 -
[257]
I too read the announcement. I have no contact at all in game with 4S. I am glad the 4S name's link to war crimes has been effectively severed. I respect all those who patiently and calmly fought the PR battle without resorting to adverse methods.
I do not respect what some members and supporters of 4S did, not even remotely. You do not seem to understand what CCP did in reinstating your name after the Jita fiasco. No matter if the shuttle spam (and other things) in Jita caused the node crash or not, it was a deliberate ploy to disrupt innocent players by, in effect, bombing civilians to make a point to authority.
After this occurred, the fact CCP gave your name back (rightly in my opinion, at least before the Jita protest) set a very dangerous precident. To those involved, those on the sidelines, and those who only know of the incidents from second/thirdhand sources, this could possibly be seen as caving in to the civilian bombings. This is now a matter of record and many feel that those responsible were not dealt with as severely as they should.
Don't think to spin the issue, the people in Jita knew exactly what they were doing and were utilizing methods to bring the server to its knees as rapidly as they could.
There is one thing from this whole 4S thing that is lacking. 4S has not distanced themselves at all from the actions of those in Jita. Instead of denouncing their actions, it seems some look at those actions with pride and others with support. Are you sure 4S wants to be associated with these actions? There is already an in game term that I would want to dispell as soon as I could. "If you don't like it, you could always pull a 4S" - no I did not make it up, I saw it in game.
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2005.11.11 15:43:00 -
[258]
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 11/11/2005 15:43:59
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
I read the announcement 4S, and to be honest if people started writing on these forums how my corp name was linked to some war criminals, thus indicating that I supported them id be pretty damn annoyed too.
I would like for you to point out where people have indicated that the Eve Corp 4S should support war criminals?
That the 4S symbol is linked to such, _is a fact_ on the other hand.
I think plenty of people af made it quite clear that they did not expect or think that 4S had any such sympathies - while still expressing a sympathy for CCPs concern over the presence of the symbol in the game, with the facts being as they are.
I saw plenty of "Racists!" yells though... God damn disgusting is what that was.
Please resize your signature so that it is within the forum rule size limits - Jacques |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.11.11 15:49:00 -
[259]
Mate, i didnt say that, i said the link was implied and people jumped on it.
And the threads have been removed afaik.
-
Just a simple warrior.
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Paul Castrin
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Posted - 2005.11.11 17:11:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Has there been any word on whether or not the 4S corporation was involved with the "issue"? I'm only asking because the only thing I can find is fanboy's screaming bloody murder, or MODS saying "post and DIE!". Any help would be greatly appreciated.
4S has made what amounts to an "official" post about their side of all this. Since it's been locked but not moderated I'm willing to believe it's factually accurate (pending any statement by CCP).
4S Statement
Though "official" word from CCP should be forthcoming it has not yet. Someone however seems to have been told that the actions in Jita were not related (or were minimally related) to the eventual crash. At one point I think everyone believed (to a lesser or greater degree) that it was but now it seems that it was not.
I fully agree that CCP did the right thing to temp ban those in Jita that were purposely striving to make life hard on others. However I think it's time that those arguing about the protest cease. The protest didn't have a major effect on the full cluster even though those same protestersÆ actions did have an effect on players in Jita (i.e. 1 node) and their actions were in violation of the EULA. IMHO if they had done the same without a cause the bans would have been the same. If the server hadn't crashed the bans would have been the same. Painting oneÆs actions as a ôpeaceful protestö does not excuse one from personal responsibility so IMHO the bans are justified.
As a final word on this I'd like to say that I'm glad that 4S and CCP worked this out, congrats to 4S for getting their name back (as it shouldnÆt have been lost to begin with), those that are still stuck on this subject should move on, and that I ask Avon to reconsider his leaving (your points were good even if I didn't agree with all of them).
Peace.
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Derran
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Posted - 2005.11.11 18:06:00 -
[261]
I read the dev blog. Sounds like a fair decision. Especially considering the background behind the name. As long as they didn't use offensive profanity in their corp names, political or religious names never bothered me personally. The way the corp handled it does bother me so the punishment given to them seems appropriate. They shouldn't have been so impatient and waited until they could take their protests to a higher level. Unless you are living under a rock, everyone knows daytime in North America is really early in the morning over in Iceland. Something like this could have waited until then.
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Khargos
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Posted - 2005.11.12 05:23:00 -
[262]
Its good to see that everything worked out fine. It is really a good thing that CCP stepped up to the moral plate of doing the right thing. Also avon leaving is a definate +.
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Skyraker7
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Posted - 2005.11.12 05:40:00 -
[263]
Um.. Why was SAS name changed ? Special Air Service, what the hell is offensive about that?
Kudos to the shuttle pilots in Jita, no matter what CCP say.. you made the changes.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.12 07:52:00 -
[264]
Quote:
[Names may not] Reflect, glorify or emulate any real-world group or organization, terrorist society, criminal elements, discriminating organizations or their leaders and figureheads. This includes the use of names of real-world military, political or religious groups.'
Since 4S represents a short hand translation of four Cyrillic C letters depicted in the national flag and coat of arms of Republic of Serbia, we were stunned with the prospect that one whole country and its citizens are considered to be one of the above mentioned.
This is the bit I still don't understand. The Republic of Serbia quite clearly is a real-world organisation. 4S freely and open admit that they chose their name to glorify it.
Remind me again why their name is allowed? It doesn't say the link has to be offensive. It just says the link is not allowed.
I'm still confused here.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
La Haine
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Posted - 2005.11.12 09:24:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
This is the bit I still don't understand. The Republic of Serbia quite clearly is a real-world organisation. 4S freely and open admit that they chose their name to glorify it.
Probably the same reason they let you keep your own corp name:
nations and nationalities are not classified as organisations.
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T'pall
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Posted - 2005.11.12 10:31:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
This is the bit I still don't understand. The Republic of Serbia quite clearly is a real-world organisation. 4S freely and open admit that they chose their name to glorify it.
Remind me again why their name is allowed? It doesn't say the link has to be offensive. It just says the link is not allowed.
I'm still confused here.
Yes you are confused :D
One country, or Nation does not count under a organization.
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2005.11.12 12:22:00 -
[267]
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 12/11/2005 12:23:42
That is definately a matter of definition, whether that breaks the EULA. A country could easily be debated to fall under the term organisation. Or a real life group. Or a real life political entity.
But CCP has, very wisely, been very relaxed in their enforcement of this.
But you cannot say 100p that it does not violate the EULA.
Please resize your signature so that it is within the forum rule size limits - Jacques |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2005.11.12 13:07:00 -
[268]
Originally by: kieron
We are doing this because of the reasons Oveur stated in his blog. We are not doing this because of the protests staged in Jita yesterday or on the forums. Those that broke the terms listed in the EULA, ToS and forum rules have been punished and those punishments will stand. There are other ways to protest a decision, including e-mailing myself.
I can see the response to that.
"Sorry guys, our logs dont show you have ever been named 4s, thank u and fly safe"
Spawn of the Devil
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.12 22:52:00 -
[269]
Originally by: La Haine
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
This is the bit I still don't understand. The Republic of Serbia quite clearly is a real-world organisation. 4S freely and open admit that they chose their name to glorify it.
Probably the same reason they let you keep your own corp name:
nations and nationalities are not classified as organisations.
That's the annoying bit. I was going to use this occurrence to get mine changed. I don't think anything relating to the real world SHOULD be allowed; but since it is, I guess we're stuck with Celt Corp.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
slip66
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Posted - 2005.11.12 23:04:00 -
[270]
good move CCP
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