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Armor Jack
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:09:00 -
[1]
taking stuff from an unsecured container how is that theft?
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The only real Caldarian is born a Caldarian, dawg... |
Professor McFly
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:11:00 -
[2]
Walk into a restaurant and take a plate of food from someone as they are eating. How is that theft? 
____________________
1) Buy Eve Time Card
2) Sell it for ISK
3) You just legally bought ISK for real money! |
Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:11:00 -
[3]
It's a matter of opinion like the question, if it's bad to shoot people who take something from your unsecured can. I think it's totally fine to kill them. 
'This is either my own opinion or not an opinion at all.' |
Traxio Nacho
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:11:00 -
[4]
Please don't start a thread about ore theft 
Also if you leave your mobile in an unsecure bag and I came along and stole it is that theft? (btw I wouldn't)
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Brogan Dagarkin
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:12:00 -
[5]
You leave your shopping kart (cart) next to your car while you get out your keys.
If I take some of your shopping from your unsecured container is that really theft?
If you take someone else's ore while they are there mining, then yes, it is theft. |
Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:12:00 -
[6]
its like puting your hands into the pants of someone else, whatever your reasons for that may be, its bad
also cant remember the last time i put a lock on my pants
 Originally by: Oveur
****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
Originally by: CYVOK
ASCN SPACE is now a NOW FLY Zone.
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Moridin
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:17:00 -
[7]
IMO stealing from a macro miner is not a theft. it is community servise |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:25:00 -
[8]
What is theft? 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Brogan Dagarkin
You leave your shopping kart (cart) next to your car while you get out your keys.
If I take some of your shopping from your unsecured container is that really theft?
If you take someone else's ore while they are there mining, then yes, it is theft.
You havne't put it in a shopping cart; you've tossed it on the floor because you don't want it. If you come back later to retrieve and it's gone, no, that is NOT theft.
Although CCP are changing things in the next patch, so neither analogy will make much sense any more.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
uaheuhaeuh
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:34:00 -
[10]
I would like to point out the fact that people seem to think ore theft is alot worse than pirating... which makes no sense at all. When someone steals ore, lets say he steals 10,000m3. So he just gained 10km3, and the person mining it lost 10km3. But if you look at pirating, lets say a person kills someones retreiver. The pirate may have gotten a couple strip miners, maybie 5 mil at most, but the miner would have lost everything. So if you think about it, ore theft is alot more fair than pirating.
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
You havne't put it in a shopping cart; you've tossed it on the floor because you don't want it. If you come back later to retrieve and it's gone, no, that is NOT theft.
No, you've put it on the floor in a generic container. A container labelled with both your name, and the name of your corp. Whether you want the item or not is irrelevant, it's your property, clearly labelled as such, and no-one has the right to tamper with it or remove it without special authority. In RL, the owner of the shop would be allowed to remove the obstruction, the police could remove it as a suspect package, etc. In eve, the only entity that has that authority is the can-popping process on the server.
As to the people saying "it's unsecured so it's free game" - the ability to take something does not grant the right to do so. While insurance policies may not pay out if things are not properly secured, the police will still treat it as a crime, and prosecute where possible. The onus on the law is and always should be that people shouldn't take what isn't theirs not that the owner should prevent others from doing so.
You can do anything. But you can't do everything. |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:50:00 -
[12]
Originally by: uaheuhaeuh
I would like to point out the fact that people seem to think ore theft is alot worse than pirating... which makes no sense at all. When someone steals ore, lets say he steals 10,000m3. So he just gained 10km3, and the person mining it lost 10km3. But if you look at pirating, lets say a person kills someones retreiver. The pirate may have gotten a couple strip miners, maybie 5 mil at most, but the miner would have lost everything. So if you think about it, ore theft is alot more fair than pirating.
Except the victim of piracy is allowed to fight back, via whatever means they had the foresight to provide themselves with. Right now, the victim of ore theft is prevented from fighting back by the law enforcement agency itself - that is the unfairness in the current ore theft system. The thief flagging system brings ore thieving in line with piracy, in that the victim is allowed to fight back, but it is up to the victim to provide themselves the means to do so.
You can do anything. But you can't do everything. |
Arablue
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Moridin
IMO stealing from a macro miner is not a theft. it is community servise
At this point I have to agree with this post. I sometimes wonder if CCP is more interested in the peak users than tracking down reports of macro minier and money farmers taht sell on e-bay.
I would use a jet can to just transfer to my indy that was mining alongside my retriever, and get upset when someone would come and bump me only to discover All that was in hte jet can was a pushpin.
After this last week's and weekend's rash of macro miners taht I notice are STILL online daily. I will never get upset about being bumped again. Got get that ore and those macro miners guys !
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Arcadia1701E
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:02:00 -
[14]
whys everyone got this idea in there head that everyone in a barge is a macro miner??? cause its really ****ing me off. I trained for an age to get the covetor and mod strips and want to mine in peace without OMG macro miner omg kill.. it gets very annoying, and the ore theifing as well, lets see how they steal from me when the patch comes out.
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Chony
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Arcadia1701E
whys everyone got this idea in there head that everyone in a barge is a macro miner??? cause its really ****ing me off. I trained for an age to get the covetor and mod strips and want to mine in peace without OMG macro miner omg kill.. it gets very annoying, and the ore theifing as well, lets see how they steal from me when the patch comes out.
how are you gunna fight back with mining lasers :P
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:15:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 15/11/2005 13:16:12
High sec. is supposed to be rather secure, hence the name ;) and low sec rather unsecure. So if someone steals your stuff in 1.0 under the protection of concorde, it shouldn't be this way.
But if someone blows up your covetor in 0.2, it's nothing to cry about.
1) Hi-sec is meant for new players and carebears, who want to avoid the dangers. So getting away with a crime is something that shouldn't be easy there.
2) Low sec. is for people who accept/like the higher risk and know how to protect themselves or enjoy to pirate/pvp or just enjoy loosing ships for whatever reason.
Think people have to accept that not the whole of EVE is meant to support their favorite play style. Hi-sec isn't meant as a pvp/kill/crime zone, low-sec/0.0 not for carebear'ing. If you don't like low-sec, don't go there. If you go there anyway, deal with the consequences and don't complain.
'This is either my own opinion or not an opinion at all.' |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
You havne't put it in a shopping cart; you've tossed it on the floor because you don't want it. If you come back later to retrieve and it's gone, no, that is NOT theft.
No, you've put it on the floor in a generic container.
Wrong. You've tossed it into open space.
CCP only implemented the 27.5km jettison can, because it was easier to manage than having things appear directly in space.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:16:00 -
[18]
putting youre hands in someones pockets or down someones pants can lead to serious problems
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Arablue
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Arcadia1701E
whys everyone got this idea in there head that everyone in a barge is a macro miner??? cause its really ****ing me off. I trained for an age to get the covetor and mod strips and want to mine in peace without OMG macro miner omg kill.. it gets very annoying, and the ore theifing as well, lets see how they steal from me when the patch comes out.
I dont think that all Covetor and Retriever pilots are macro miners. I have One retriever myself, working on the training to use my already purchased covetor and a second account I pilot an indy with.
The macro miners I have seen warp in with 5 or 6 comorants (all 9 day in game accounts, still in a newbie corp) and an indy and lay waste to a spot in a roid belt then move.
When you look in the jet can you see 30 or more stacks just the size of the comorants hold of various types of ore.
Those need to go. Those are the ones I give my blessings to the "ore thiefs."
Interestingly enough, I noticed the ore thiefs leave me alone if I drop a secure can, even in high sec space and use it to transfer to the indy with it. No bumps, they warp in to where I am and warp out.
So I am beginning to suspect the "ore thiefs" are self appointed game police. They Should be reporting using exploits when they find a suspected macro miner. If they swipe the ore from the jet can after writing down the miners names, and making the petition, fine.
If enough petitions get sent in about them, CCP should do something other than just send a "thanks we will check" update to the petition.
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Expert Newbie
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:18:00 -
[20]
Relating a game to real life is like trying to RP as Everquest characters in real life and root and daze the police officers when they come to arrest you.
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Maximum signature image filesize is 24000 bytes - Udat |
Frey Jorgurand
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:20:00 -
[21]
If you don't wish for someone to take ore from you in high sec. space, DO NOT JET CAN MINE. It is that simple really. If you jet can mine, and you are not using a hauler, then expect it. You are inviting theft.
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
You havne't put it in a shopping cart; you've tossed it on the floor because you don't want it. If you come back later to retrieve and it's gone, no, that is NOT theft.
So if I carry something, lets say a piece of gold that I mined, in a garbage bag, as soon as I place it on the ground and you take it, its not theft?
Theft is the act of taking something that doesn't belong to you, and has nothing to do with the container that something may or may not be in. Arguing otherwise is simply silly.
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Angelic Resolution
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: sonofollo
putting youre hands in someones pockets or down someones pants can lead to serious problems
signed
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:28:00 -
[24]
OMG not another pointless ethics thread on Ore Theft.
I almost posted here.....no.....wait
I have!!! ARRRGGGG!!
Uber Mining lvl5 in Training
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:36:00 -
[25]
The problem here is that to justify the theft of ore and loot in EvE some people have redefined ownership and/or theft.
Ownership ends not when you put a thing in the open in plain sight, if I buy a nuget of gold and throw it on the ground and you pick it upp and try to claim you own it I can have you arrested for theft, I can even do that if I wasnt even there to tell you it was my nuget.
I would just inform the police it was stolen and when you try to sell it chances are you will get caught.
All this said ore theft is not against the rules in EvE. EvE is an MMO in wich alot of illegal actions are perfectly within the game rules to do, my guess is that the people arguing that stealing ore from miners mining into jetcans is not theft is doing so from an OOG perspective and reason.
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20. Is it true all pvpers have carebear alts?
Yes, of course. I have so much fun looking up who's alt is who's
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online |
Serpensis
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:42:00 -
[26]
The only reason it is "unsecured" is because the miners was not allowed to shoot at the miserable thieves. The miners had up until RMR no way of protecting the can.
Now, however, I will send you to whatever God you want if try to nick my ore.
--
"Fear accompanies the possibility of death,
calm sheperds its certainty." |
DukDodgerz
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:43:00 -
[27]
it is stealing, no matter what the twits that think otherwise may say, it is stealing.
tossing RL senerios and any bullsheet excuse about what a 3rd party intendion is pointless. Taking the ore from miners that are floating next to the can, filling it up while waiting for their hauler to gather the ore, is theft, plain , simple, nothing complicated about it, even the morons that steal know it is theft.
Is it up to CCP to stop the thieft, seems that it isn't according to CCP.
Been around since beta and one ideal of CCP's that has held fast all this time, ignore the silent majority and cator to the griefing minority.
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Sarke
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: mahhy
Theft is the act of taking something that doesn't belong to you, and has nothing to do with the container that something may or may not be in. Arguing otherwise is simply silly.
Yup, in RL if you find something you're required by law to turn it over to local authorities and only if it goes unclaimed for a period of time may you keep it (to prove that it was in fact abandoned). Even if someone loses something, it's still their property.
Relating this to EVE, if you take ore from a can you probably know that whoever mined it will be back soon to get it (i.e. theft). Move it to a new container and if no one shows up to claim it after about an hour you can keep it, as it would have been destroyed otherwise.
Originally by: uaheuhaeuh
lets say he steals 10,000m3. So he just gained 10km3, and the person mining it lost 10km3.
I'm sorry, but I have to correct you here. 10,000 m3 is equal to 0.000,01 km3.
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Joshua Izblind
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Posted - 2005.11.15 14:34:00 -
[29]
RL RL RL RL RL, BLABLABLABA BLADI BLADI BLA!
Since this aint RL, but EvE with loads of stupid people that leave metal junk (i.e. containers) everywhere they go, its my job to clean it all up.
Its not "Theft", or a crime. And yes, i do take other people's food in restaurants.
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2005.11.15 15:02:00 -
[30]
Doesn't really matter what we think, after the next patch the game will consider it theft.
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