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Much Ado About AFK Cloaking

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Mahpiya Luta Peach Pit Corp Initiative Associates 0	Posted - 2013.06.14 11:45:00 - [1] - Quote There is this thing called 'afk camping' and two sides to the coin. First things first, it's within the rules of the game, it isn't cheating nor bug-using or what so ever. Cloaky modules are part of this game and have a right to exist. They make sense! So what's all the fuss about anyways? Well, being a system owner/renter in this game is also part of this game. You invest time, money and manpower to raise the military and industrial level and make this game running by producing, ratting, mining. It's astounding that all someone (jerk) has to do, in order to destroy other players gameplay, is to sit in a cloaky ship at a savespot and leave his computer for good without even bothering about getting caught. This can't be the idea of this game. You might say: 'Well why dont you kill them when entering the system?' Because, there is a time for the game and there is a tme for real life and you can't have a guarded system 24/7. Let's see what we got so far. Cloaky modules make sense and should definitly provide a high amount of savety to a cloaked pilot. Especially bombers, cover-ops and black-ops. On the other hand, having a computer running an alt in a cloaky ship with a cyno field gen fitted and nobody taking care of that alt. After days of not even looking how your cloaky alt is doing, you then suddenly decide to just hotdrop a whole fleet. The way I see it, the problem isn't the cloak camping but the 'away from keyboard' claok camping. The solution therefore would be a game feature that doesnt destroy the savtey aspect of cloak modules but forces people to continously watch out for their cloaked alts in order for not getting caught and killed. If you dont watch for your alt, you then lose your ship and pod. The newly added hacking minigame and a vague memory of a star trek sequal from many years ago when I used to watch those things, brought this idea of an scanning minigame to my mind. When scanning for cloaked ships in star trek you still had some fuzzy signatures which when reajusting your probe settings became more clear the more you ajusted them. So how about having to ajust some frequencies (ship signatures) everytime you hit the scan button (the smaller the probe radius the smaller the frequency scal gets) and get closer to the pinpointing? And how about if its different for any shiptype, which means if you already know what ship you're scanning for makes it easier because you have to ajust your scan for ladar (minmatar), radar (amarr), gravimetric (caldari) or magnetrometric (gallente) or maybe even bs, bc, frig, etc. The cloak pilot on the other hand should then be able to reajust his frequencies somehow or just plain by switching his cloaking device off and on again. This would make sure he can't leave his ship for good at some savespot and just go afk. Using a bot to reajust frequencies would then clearly be against the rules of the game. Regards, M.L.
George Boothe Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2013.06.14 11:53:00 - [2] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNDUU4gHCuE
Azrael Dinn The 20th Legion Mildly Sober 123	Posted - 2013.06.14 12:08:00 - [3] - Quote We talking about this again... Don't get me wrong I like your idea that cloaked ships needs to be active and everyone would have a way to try to find them from space but the cries of the nerds that will soon start to say no no no and "there is no problem" and "learn to use search" are something that I just can't take. Hope someone else supports your idea also. +1
Onomerous Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 116	Posted - 2013.06.14 12:42:00 - [4] - Quote Lots of text for a solution to something that isn't a problem. These 'nerf cloaking', etc. threads are getting better each time!! Poor null sex players can't farm the iskies because of one cloaked ship. NS is rough indeed.
Mahpiya Luta Peach Pit Corp Initiative Associates 0	Posted - 2013.06.14 12:56:00 - [5] - Quote You guys life by it. Try buying a ship and having fun in small scale pvp, in a world without null sec pve, producing and mining. It's a major part of the game and not having an in-game counter measure feature is definitly an issue. You are able to counter almost everything in this game, by modules, isk, manpower or whatsoever. But there is not a thing you can do against cloaky campers, but being a jerk yourself and camping their system as well. Which is sooooo much fun, NOT!
Sura Sadiva Entropic Tactical Crew 436	Posted - 2013.06.14 13:25:00 - [6] - Quote Mahpiya Luta wrote: It's astounding that all someone (jerk) has to do, in order to destroy other players gameplay, is to sit in a cloaky ship at a savespot and leave his computer for good without even bothering about getting caught. This can't be the idea of this game. If you say this to any "true" null-sec resident as they will laugh If you say it to low-sec residents they will laugh at you if you say it to a WH resident they will laugh even harder. Even not going for something very extreme like "accept the challenge and try to catch them" (nooooooo) but you have always an "I WIN" option, and is simply: keep mining, ratting, doing your business. And accept the fact that SOMETIME someone will decloack next to you and you will probably loose a ship. FYI: the rest of New Eden already deal with this. 99.9% of EVE players are used to this kind of risks (omg loosing a drake!), they accept it and have fun. Why you null-bear are unable to play like the rest of EVE already do, why for you the simple presence of a single stranger (9 out of 10 AFK too) in the systems equals to destroy your gameplay when the large majority of EVE players deal and ghave fun with this? Do null bear have some kind of mental problem or unability? Soon, high-sec miners will start to blame your bothering carebear attitude.
Mahpiya Luta Peach Pit Corp Initiative Associates 0	Posted - 2013.06.14 13:38:00 - [7] - Quote Because in contrast to you we dont fly phukkin drakes. The worth of our ships go into multiple billions.
George Boothe Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2013.06.14 13:48:00 - [8] - Quote Do not fly that you cannot afford to loose.
Debora Tsung The Investment Bankers Guild 152	Posted - 2013.06.14 13:56:00 - [9] - Quote How about ppl just get an afk flag on their name in the local chat window once they're inactive for about 15 Minutes? Problem solved, no? Oh wait, now You'll say "But how do I know if that little **** is REALL AFK?! He could be faking after all..." Well, that's what happens once You let fear guide You, You'll always find new excuses to not undock. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 2164	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:04:00 - [10] - Quote Mahpiya Luta wrote: You guys life by it. Try buying a ship and having fun in small scale pvp, in a world without null sec pve, producing and mining. It's a major part of the game and not having an in-game counter measure feature is definitly an issue. You are able to counter almost everything in this game, by modules, isk, manpower or whatsoever. But there is not a thing you can do against cloaky campers, but being a jerk yourself and camping their system as well. Which is sooooo much fun, NOT! This just isn't true. I've live din null for 5 years and there are plenty of things you can do to counter Cloacky Campers. Notice I said counter and not kill. -You could rat/mine in strong fleets or multiboxing. Just last week on of my alliance mates was doing anomalies with 3 Domis when a Tengu appeared and cyno'd in a gang. His 3 remote rep domis survived while killing a tengu and a talos and make the rest of them run away. -You can rat in warp core stabbed FoF missile or drone ships. I do this a lot with a raven with 2 warp core stabs, and have done so in the past with a tengu with 2 warp core stabs and the interdiction nullifier sub system. Works with Domis and Rattlesnakes and Gilas too That way if a cloaky uncloacks and tries to point you, unless he has more than 1 scram on (or is in a HIC, which can't warp cloaked), you are IMMUNE from being tackled (the tengu is immune from being bubbled lol). -You could rat with a Carrier at the edge of a pos shield assigning fighters + a tanked transport like an Impel. The Impel gets +2 warp strength like a Venture so add 1 warp stab and the other 6 lows are armor tank, Target painter in the mid, remote rep of some kind in the high if you can fit to emergency repair the fighters, or a tractor beam for loot since you got a lot of cargo hold lol. -you could leave system and rat somewhere else (even works for renters going to totally unclaimed null space, the landlords tend to not mind). -You can even bait the cloaky and kill it if/when it uncloaks (and if it never uncloaks, you know the guy was bluffing. You don't NEED to be able to hunt down and kill a cloaky, you just need to make cloaky camping not work and people will stop doing it (or keep doing it and waste their own game time).
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 584	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:09:00 - [11] - Quote Mahpiya Luta wrote: Well, being a system owner/renter in this game is also part of this game. You invest time, money and manpower to raise the military and industrial level and make this game running by producing, ratting, mining. It's astounding that all someone (jerk) has to do, in order to destroy other players gameplay here I identified your problem, didnt read the rest Your problem is not cloaking its a poor gameplay choice based on lazyness and unwillingness to contribute to the entire spectrum of 0.0 gameplay (rat and dont give a fck about everything else) - this being easily disturbed is a good thing. Cloak is fine, move on.
Arthur Aihaken Nil. 5	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:20:00 - [12] - Quote I like the idea of a cloak detection device.
Samuel Woodbury Veoxtrox 1	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:28:00 - [13] - Quote TL;DR and to common
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc 615	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:31:00 - [14] - Quote Well done OP, you've just broken Wormhole Space. Too busy trying to justify an idea to nerf all cloaks (Yes I said all..... total BS that you are just trying to remove AFK cloaking and you know it), to actually look at the bigger picture and see how your 'idea' affects the rest of the game. I also notice you don't address any other kind of AFK safety.... The poor active cloaker in your system does not know if the people listed in local are AFK in a station or not. He has to decide if its safe to attack a solo ratting ship or if an armada is going to come swarming out of the nearest Outpost. How about if someone in a station/outpost/POS does not perform some mini-game every 15 mins then they get ejected into space in whatever ship they are currently in....!!!!!! BTW: In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic. Your Idea and desire to make Zero Sec space even safer for yourself is Bad. Please stop posting it. Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Mahpiya Luta Peach Pit Corp Initiative Associates 1	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:31:00 - [15] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Mahpiya Luta wrote: Well, being a system owner/renter in this game is also part of this game. You invest time, money and manpower to raise the military and industrial level and make this game running by producing, ratting, mining. It's astounding that all someone (jerk) has to do, in order to destroy other players gameplay here I identified your problem, didnt read the rest Your problem is not cloaking its a poor gameplay choice based on lazyness and unwillingness to contribute to the entire spectrum of 0.0 gameplay (rat and dont give a fck about everything else) - this being easily disturbed is a good thing. Cloak is fine, move on. Your assumption is just plain wrong and only based on preconceptions about pve in nullsec. I didnt say with one word that we sissy out on our station and that's it. You just like to prejudge in order to lead this topic, which started very open, in an direction you prefer. Instead of giving argument you just like to accuse without any further background knowledge about the situation that lead to this topic. Try being a little more constructiv the next time.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 316	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:32:00 - [16] - Quote Mahpiya Luta wrote: There is this thing called 'afk camping' and two sides to the coin. First things first, it's within the rules of the game, it isn't cheating nor bug-using or what so ever. Cloaky modules are part of this game and have a right to exist. They make sense! So what's all the fuss about anyways? Well, being a system owner/renter in this game is also part of this game. You invest time, money and manpower to raise the military and industrial level and make this game running by producing, ratting, mining. Ahh yes, the boiler plate language.... Quote: It's astounding that all someone (jerk) has to do, in order to destroy other players gameplay, is to sit in a cloaky ship at a savespot and leave his computer for good without even bothering about getting caught. This can't be the idea of this game. You might say: 'Well why dont you kill them when entering the system?' Because, there is a time for the game and there is a tme for real life and you can't have a guarded system 24/7. What is astounding to me is that you can't alter your game play to handle this issue. 1. Rat in a group. Yeah not as efficient, but safer and on the up side a fleet with four guys will burn through anomalies faster...will help keep up that military index. 2. Be on comms in the same channel, that way if someone gets in trouble he can yell for help and people will hear him and can respond. 3. Recon the area (after using dotlan) in the surrounding systems that could host a BLOPs, if all clear it may just be a single cloaky camper, less of a threat. 4. I know you have worked to get the index in that system up, but if you can move over a system. Granted like number 1 not as efficient, but you can still earn isk. 5. Check your rental agreement. Quote: Let's see what we got so far. Cloaky modules make sense and should definitly provide a high amount of savety to a cloaked pilot. Especially bombers, cover-ops and black-ops. On the other hand, having a computer running an alt in a cloaky ship with a cyno field gen fitted and nobody taking care of that alt. After days of not even looking how your cloaky alt is doing, you then suddenly decide to just hotdrop a whole fleet. See...this is due to local. Local tells you a potentially hostile ship(s) has(have) entered system. You see it before he (tehy) even load grid and scoot to safety. Every time this is what you do. So, in response the roaming gangs stop and the AFK cloaking commences. Local, the tool you were using to decrease your risk has been turned against you. To be quite clear, no local, no reason to AFK camp. None at all. Quote: The way I see it, the problem isn't the cloak camping but the 'away from keyboard' claok camping. The solution therefore would be a game feature that doesnt destroy the savtey aspect of cloak modules but forces people to continously watch out for their cloaked alts in order for not getting caught and killed. If you dont watch for your alt, you then lose your ship and pod. Been discussed to death. No really. Your moment of brilliance isn't all that unique or brilliant. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=216699 Quote: The newly added hacking minigame and a vague memory of a star trek sequal from many years ago when I used to watch those things, brought this idea of an scanning minigame to my mind. When scanning for cloaked ships in star trek you still had some fuzzy signatures which when reajusting your probe settings became more clear the more you ajusted them. [snipped the rest]. Yes, yes, yes...a change to probes. The real issue is local. Without local nobody would ever afk cloak camp. They migh AFK to go tinkle, grab a drink, or answer the door, but that is a convenience not a strategic type of game play. Local is what makes it so safe in null. As a result, people hostile to you are using that to make you feel less safe. If they are lucky you begin to feel safe even though they are in local and you provide a hot drop opportunity when they do come back to the keyboard.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 316	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:35:00 - [17] - Quote Mahpiya Luta wrote: You guys life by it. Try buying a ship and having fun in small scale pvp, .... I have, and guess what when ever our fun little gang enters system every one, POSes up, docks up, safes up and cloaks.... How fun is it going 20+ jumps looking for a fight and not getting anything? Not very. So people get bored with the "fun small scale pvp" and switch to BLOPs where the hunters AFK cloak. It is all due to local. Local gives the people in system infallible intel 100% of the time and before the hostiles even load grid let alone hit dscan or rush to a belt.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 585	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:38:00 - [18] - Quote Mahpiya Luta wrote: Try being a little more constructiv the next time. I'm pretty sure your arguments arent new and have been discussed to death on other topics, why dont you just go and read them. There is nothing what hasnt been written about afk cloaking you just need to read. And yeah, you asked for a change in F&I forum and people answer to you from their point of view. Mine is that renting is a sh*t model and shouldn't be buffed in any way, by nerfing cloak, as only way to even shake a little at 100% safe ratting empires, even less!
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 317	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:38:00 - [19] - Quote Jint Hikaru wrote: How about if someone in a station/outpost/POS does not perform some mini-game every 15 mins then they get ejected into space in whatever ship they are currently in....!!!!!! I'm not. If you are going to make such a change to cloaks it seems reasonable to me to impose it on other people who are AFK with 100% safety in the game. So, if you go AFK in a station, miss your shot at a mini-game out you go...and to be fair you should be ejected out of docking range.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 317	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:39:00 - [20] - Quote Mahpiya Luta wrote: Robert Caldera wrote: Mahpiya Luta wrote: Well, being a system owner/renter in this game is also part of this game. You invest time, money and manpower to raise the military and industrial level and make this game running by producing, ratting, mining. It's astounding that all someone (jerk) has to do, in order to destroy other players gameplay here I identified your problem, didnt read the rest Your problem is not cloaking its a poor gameplay choice based on lazyness and unwillingness to contribute to the entire spectrum of 0.0 gameplay (rat and dont give a fck about everything else) - this being easily disturbed is a good thing. Cloak is fine, move on. [snipped] Try being a little more constructiv the next time. Ironic coming from a guy who called AFK cloakers jerks.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 10124	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:41:00 - [21] - Quote Christ not this again 1 Kings 12:11
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc 617	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:46:00 - [22] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Christ not this again I know.... Remove cloakers from local already.... (and deny them local) Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 1389	Posted - 2013.06.14 15:01:00 - [23] - Quote Mahpiya Luta wrote: It's astounding that all someone (jerk) has to do, in order to destroy other players gameplay, is to sit in a cloaky ship at a savespot and leave his computer for good without even bothering about getting caught. This can't be the idea of this game. You might say: 'Well why dont you kill them when entering the system?' Because, there is a time for the game and there is a tme for real life and you can't have a guarded system 24/7. A cloaked player cannot "destroy other players gameplay". He cannot do anything to you - cloaks prevent him activating any modules. Being AFK further still removes his ability to do anything. Repeat after me: He cannot do anything to you. Also, if you can't defend your systems then they are not yours. That's how nullsec works bro. Sorry if you missed the memo. Mahpiya Luta wrote: Because in contrast to you we dont fly ~snip~ drakes. The worth of our ships go into multiple billions. You do not need to bling your ships out that much to run PVE sites in nullsec. If you want to, then cool go for it. But if you're not willing to risk them then don't do it. Asking for CCP to change the mechanics because you don't want to risk your unnecessarily flashy carebear ships when flying around in nullsec is laughable. Friend, just go back to highsec. You don't understand nullsec and don't belong there.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 587	Posted - 2013.06.14 15:06:00 - [24] - Quote Mahpiya Luta wrote: Because in contrast to you we dont fly ~snip~ drakes. The worth of our ships go into multiple billions. haha spotted another reason why you got afk cloakers there :-D
Vassal Zeren Uncontrollable Innovations 43	Posted - 2013.06.14 15:23:00 - [25] - Quote It's funny that the Shakespearean reference you've made is a play actually called Much Ado About Nothing.
TheSkeptic Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 234	Posted - 2013.06.14 15:32:00 - [26] - Quote Mahpiya Luta wrote: It's astounding that all someone (jerk) has to do, in order to destroy other players gameplay, is to sit in a cloaky ship at a savespot and leave his computer for good without even bothering about getting caught. This can't be the idea of this game. You might say: 'Well why dont you kill them when entering the system?' Because, there is a time for the game and there is a tme for real life and you can't have a guarded system 24/7. I don't understand how someone who isn't even there destroys others gameplay... please explain this to me? ...
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 1390	Posted - 2013.06.14 15:34:00 - [27] - Quote TheSkeptic wrote: Mahpiya Luta wrote: It's astounding that all someone (jerk) has to do, in order to destroy other players gameplay, is to sit in a cloaky ship at a savespot and leave his computer for good without even bothering about getting caught. This can't be the idea of this game. You might say: 'Well why dont you kill them when entering the system?' Because, there is a time for the game and there is a tme for real life and you can't have a guarded system 24/7. I don't understand how someone who isn't even there destroys others gameplay... please explain this to me? To be fair, it does destroy the "gameplay" of botters, since they are programmed to flee
Yaturi The Scope Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2013.06.14 16:08:00 - [28] - Quote I stopped reading when I saw the word minigame. I understand it can be annoying to see a guy on local. Its like that fly on the inside of the window when your driving down the road. But you gotta understand it would be even BETTER if you were DENIED even seeing them on local. That's the best solution to the problem. Not a dinky pleasureless minigame. You should play your system with the knowledge that flys can show up and ruin the picnic, and the possibility that an army of ants can come take it away. THAT IS NULL SEC. Nate Natell wrote an intriguing write up about the limiting of local data visibility. You should look it up and read it.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 14956	Posted - 2013.06.14 16:10:00 - [29] - Quote OP whilst they are cloaked and AFK, which game mechanic are they using to interact with you? Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Gigan Amilupar Legion of Darkwind Order of the Void 0	Posted - 2013.06.14 16:56:00 - [30] - Quote Here's an idea, remove local chat entirely. That way you won't have a readily available intel source on everyone in system. And you'll never know those AFK cloakies are in system to begin with, so you won't get psyched out. Oh, and pirates will have an easier time. So everyone wins! (but mostly pirates)

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