Machariel versus Angels/Rogue Drones

Nightmare versus Sansha/Blood Raiders

Vindicator versus Guristas/Serpentis/EoM/Mercenaries

While missles are flying towards the frigates the 800s/Neutrons/Tachyons are volleying them before they get up to speed.

While missles are flying towards the frigates the 800s/Neutrons/Tachyons are volleying them before they get up to speed.

Have you actually tried a CNR since the patch ?

I tried it on SiSi with meta 4 cruise missles and another setup with T2 torps... still takes forever and a day to kill frigates.

Target painters need to be buffed when used against NPC targets.

You can also use Sentry drones to blap frigs on the approach and if they get under the sentry tracking then use lights to finish them off, don't waste your Cruise volleys on them, in the end losing the ability to easily blap frigs isn't as severely crippling to the Navy Raven anymore, it also boasts the best projection with 940 dps to 122km with missiles alone meaning if the rats spawn at range (happens often) the Raven will be doing more damage than the Nightmare, Mach or Vindi, the damage starts to even as the rats come closer but at a top of 1120 dps with drones it's pretty close even at closer ranges.

Honestly I think it's pretty close to being one of the best mission boats, I doubt it would beat a Nightmare at EM/Therm rats but I'm thinking it could give the Vindicator/Machariel a run for their money on longer range missions.

I dont have max skills yet but with +5 implants i'm getting 949 dps and 8236 volley damage.

EDIT: I've just done sansha pirate invasion and killed everything in 12 minutes total (from accepting the mission to handing it in)

EDIT2: Those damage numbers are from missile damage only.

Even with pretty crappy skills the 3 turret based pirate faction battleships breeze over 1k dps applied as soon as the turret cycles.

Other ships might do certain npc and mission better but for overall userbillity against anything the CNR is very bloody good.

There's a set pool of missions (A small, stagnant pool I might add). The NPC's spawn at the exact same range as they always do in a given mission.

After a few weeks of running missions its not difficult to have memorized what exactly you need for each mission, and if you can't then you can look at mission reports and get exact information on everything involved with running any given mission.

You don't need any overall usability, you need to cater your ship to get the specific mission done as quickly as possible.

How do you customize a Nightmare to fight against Angels, EOM, Mordu's Legion or Guristas ?

I don't know, my CNR, at all V without implants is 1177 DPS, including drones. The drones have sufficient tracking to murder frigs (unless they spwan on top if you) and anything cruiser and up dies in a fire to the new cruises.

You customize your nightmare against angels by switching to mach before the mission.


I dont know, but after initial enthusiasm my feeling about cruise missile ships is back to "please npc, dont pulse mwd while Im shooting at you...****...please npc, dont pulse rep...****... dont shoot defender..."

...and I really miss being able to 1 shot frigs with half of the guns and hate seeing some npcs are left with 10% hull and i will waste full volley on them.

I dont know, but after initial enthusiasm my feeling about cruise missile ships is back to "please npc, dont pulse mwd while Im shooting at you...****...please npc, dont pulse rep...****... dont shoot defender..."

...and I really miss being able to 1 shot frigs with half of the guns and hate seeing some npcs are left with 10% hull and i will waste full volley on them.

I know what you mean and it may just be the fact I also have missile implants, but I just dont find it a material issue. What I tend to use the drones for is mopping up those rare rats that the cruises dont insta-pop and just keep the cruises walking up the locked target chain whilst the drones catch up on any stragglers (and there /really/ aren't many).

I use a similar pattern with the phoon when I use that boat, only the drones rip through even quicker due to the extra number of them and more DDAs.


@ExcalibursTemplar: If you're excited by the CNR, look at a properly fitted TFI, that thing is just hilarious. Without implants, 1418dps out to 39+12 (on the gardes), or 1363DPS out to lock range (bouncers), most of it applied. Add implants and you're talking silly numbers. And thats not even a deadspace fit, T2, some faction only.

I don't get what your trying to say there, you can use half your missiles on a CNR to instant pop frigs. Elite frigs do take a couple of volleys of a full rack but to be honest you can just use drones on them to kill them just as fast while you take out the battleships and battlecruiser/cruisers.
Just out of interest do you know what your completion time for Sansha Pirate invasion is ?

I know for a fact from accepting the mission and killing absolutely everything to handing it in takes me 12 minutes.

What's the best one as in for speed to clear the mission, money no object.

While missles are flying towards the frigates the 800s/Neutrons/Tachyons are volleying them before they get up to speed.

show some bounty ticks.

Avoiding dread pirate scarlet because of her 5 mil bounty for 1 salvo

2013.02.15 15:52:04 Bounty Prizes 14,591,250.00 ISK

did that in a t2 fit domi some time ago, had I had more firepower it would still have been the same amount, because I was entering a pocket in a different system when the wallet flashed. The problem with mission ticks is that they get curtailed by the red crosses running out before the 20 minutes are up.

try pulling like 4 missions at a time and try to get them in the same system (hard I know but might be doable within 1 jump)

That isn't how DPS works.

Once you know how many volleys you need there is no DPS loss, only DPS delayed.

This means with equal DPS a missile finish a mission ~5 seconds slower total. Not per ship.

and sometimes they fire a defender, or get a rep cycle in. if you have your guns ungrouped it isn't uncommon for only one more shot to be needed, and with turrets you only fire that one more shot. with missiles I group them and can waste many rounds. if you can count individual missile launches, well good for you, it is far more effort, and a bit too random for me to even want to try bothering with it more than I have. it is nearly impossible to do, if an npc is in strucuter a full volley is almost always overkill, but will it need 3, 4, or 8 more missiles to fully kill? with turrets the game finds out for you and only fires that many shots.

@Lugalzagezi666

You're missing (or I'm being unclear) my point - you simply DONT shoot missiles at the frigs, use gardes and omnis and eat them up.

MWD Mach. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58393-Machariel-Level-4-Blitzer-MWD-Web-EW-Drones-Minmatar-Space.html

using missiles for missions is nice on paper with that theoretical DPS, but railguns will be able to kill a frigate every 4 secs and by the time your missiles get to the targets a turret ship would already have killed them.

jammers are annoying tho.

If I could kill the frigs in reasonable time with cruises, I would do it and I would never launch anything else but salvage drones (fleet phoon is completely different beast, because its sentrys have almost 3x more dps than sentries on cnr and they can reliably kill even elite cruisers on their own).

I really don't understand why people keep going on about frigates. In my CNR I'm killing battleships in around 2 to 4 volleys. Isn't that the most important thing considering everything else except for elite frigs instant pops in one volley ?

EDIT: Half a volley with a target paint for normal frigs.

The two omnis I can tack onto my CNR actually make it less of a gap with the phoon

This... and add mwd cycles where you easily lose 50% of the volley when npc is decelerating. Its beyond me how people dont see it, its like they are all theorycrafting and havent actualy used said ships/weapons.

Not at all. Its the total time to kill all the ships in the mission. Especially when volleys are 9 seconds apart compared to 3; plus travel time of the initial volley.

It's because it's the worst case scenario which happens maybe once per month in an Angel Extra. Defenders aren't a problem since 2 or 3 patches ago either. If you would fly a missile boat, you would have noticed.

Missiles do have their advantages - they never fight in falloff, they never lose damage to suboptimal damage types, and they never lose damage because you move your ship. ;)

Yeah, they have disadvantages, but the comparision isn't as bad as some people claim.

Ladies and gentleman, I present you eve's fastest mission ship.
(It only costs 3.5 + 2.5bil implants! And requires nearly all the relevant skills at level 5)


Typhoon fleet issue

Low:
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II
Mid
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist C-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Target Painter
High
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
Rigs
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Drones:
-Garde/Bouncer II x5
-Hobgoblin II x5

Full HG Crystal set
Cruise Missile Implants

1575 DPS, Cap stable ish 465 dps omni tank ()with MWD off. 9 Targets, 115km + target range. 1230 M/S to speed towards the gate after you shoot everything from a static position with sentries.

You're welcome.

Inb4 l00tpinata cryfest

Edit: If you can't clear a mission with this ship and./or don't have the ISK for it. Add in a second ship, replace the 1400's with Large Cap Transfers, and downgrade the tank to T2 and just perma run a large shield booster on both. :') I'm full of awesome ideas. *bows*

Not faster than a Mach at killing angels, sorry.

Ladies and gentleman, I present you eve's fastest mission ship.
(It only costs 3.5 + 2.5bil implants! And requires nearly all the relevant skills at level 5)


Typhoon fleet issue

Low:
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II
Mid
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist C-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Target Painter
High
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II
Rigs
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Drones:
-Garde/Bouncer II x5
-Hobgoblin II x5

Full HG Crystal set
Cruise Missile Implants

1575 DPS, Cap stable ish 465 dps omni tank ()with MWD off. 9 Targets, 115km + target range. 1230 M/S to speed towards the gate after you shoot everything from a static position with sentries.

You're welcome.

Inb4 l00tpinata cryfest

Edit: If you can't clear a mission with this ship and./or don't have the ISK for it. Add in a second ship, replace the 1400's with Large Cap Transfers, and downgrade the tank to T2 and just perma run a large shield booster on both. :') I'm full of awesome ideas. *bows*

Having spent 4 billion trying several different ships from the new TFI to the CNR and even gave the Rattler a try, in the end they are all going back to the buyerGÇÖs market and my Mach is still the only ship I can imagine grinding in. 1400 mach with ungrouped guns kill 7 frigs every 15 seconds then a quick click to group button kills a BS every 30 seconds. Or for the close in encounters 800s FTW and everything dies so fast the explosions lag out my pair of NVIDIA cards as the screen turns white like the after-effect of a Thermonuclear explosion.

I have drones, they sit in the Drone bay probably drinking rum and discussing the State of the union as they never get to go outside.

With 1000 DPS arties and 1400 DPS autos, ranges from 4500m to 140km, a tank well over 800dps cool and over 1000dps hot, add to that speeds in excess of 2200m/s (heat when desperate) it is the most lethal cruiser in the game.

You and I can have a lot of babies, because I think exactly just like you.

IMO it's just impossible to beat Mach in any fight.

I keep the record of time on every mission I do, some of the missions are done 30-40% faster compared to other ships like CNR, Typhoon or even Tengu.

Tell me how you get 1400 dps autos and range at all after this expansion? You're not using faction ammo I hope? :') :') :') If you mission for ISK anyway, le faction ammo will drain your wallet faster than you earn ISK.

Right. Last mission I ran netted 9kLP, 19M bounty, 20M in salvage, and 3M in rewards in 31 minutes, and used <3000 rounds of faction ammo. So like 1700 LP and 750k isk.

Yeah, it really drains your wallet.

FFS.

Anyway, the expansion bridged the gap between some fleet issues and pirate faction ships, and boosted one Pirate ship. Cant agree enough with the post from the beginning that basically said "use the pirate faction BS appropriate to the space you're in". That's the fastest way to clear missions, period.

Not every mission is the same obviously, but autos on a mach with faction ammo is just not efficient ISK wise in my experience.
With artilery, it's a different story for obvious reasons.

You probably aren't running sentry II's then. I'm just an RCH (little bit) under 20 mil a tick.

Pop the triggers first instead of last so that everything you shoot except for the fist couple ships is in optimal.

If you're getting more than 20 million bounty ticks in a TFI or CNR I'd like to see that, because it would be amazing. Or RS.

Tell me how you get 1400 dps autos and range at all after this expansion? You're not using faction ammo I hope? :') :') :')

Tell me how you get 1400 dps autos and range at all after this expansion? You're not using faction ammo I hope? :') :') :') If you mission for ISK anyway, le faction ammo will drain your wallet faster than you earn ISK.

Since I buy faction ammo in lots of 100k with trade-in ammo I build in my spare time and Concord LP from Incursions I never really worry about the cost. I also build my T2 ammo in my spare time as well, so here the breakdown with todays prices.

Hail= 320isk each
Barrage= 215isk each
Quake= 415isk each
Republic Fleet ammo= about 600 per shot plus 3.3 LP every time 7 guns cycle
(105isk and .48 LP and 480 ISK each)

I build ammo in batches of 800k each so I rarely pay attention to the cost. Currently have a bit of overstock on ammo (Noticed thanks to this conversation) selling 700k Hail and making some more since the profit margin is so high right now.

And yes the Tracking Enhancer nerf took roughly 20km off my autocannons so I dropped one TE-II for a Sig-Amp and added a scripted TC-II to the mids and I am back to essentially the same pre-nerf range.

Not to play devils advocate but the question was how do you get that DPS "at range". 1300 DPS @ 4k is not 1300DPS @ 40k by a longshot, no pun intended.

Seems legit. And good idea to swap out a TE for a TC. I still wonder how 1400dps with auto's is even remotely possible however. If you include 4 Garde II's you can reach that kind of DPS though. (at 4km optimal =p)

Just unloaded the drones and checked to be sure, and your right I am only getting 1357dps / Hail, 1216dps / RF EMP, 963dps / Barrage.

1597 with Guards, or 1437 with Warriors. and Hail L.

With hail... yes. -30% tracking.

Not to play devils advocate but the question was how do you get that DPS "at range". 1300 DPS @ 4k is not 1300DPS @ 40k by a longshot, no pun intended.

Yeah for missions like Vengance where everything spawns between 20 and 30 km, just use an Auto targeting II and kill everything long before it gets any transversal if it does get transversal Pulse the MWD and wait for the rat to adjust to pop it. Vengance takes me about 12 minutes to complete.

And BTW the Tracking Comp II with a script coincidently give a 35% boost to tracking.

What are you getting in your missile boats if you don't mind me asking?

I'm only getting 13 in my TFI but its because theres only one Sansha mission worth doing in Minmatar space.

That also. A TFI can actually put ouf 1500+ dps at 100km though, not that that is actual applied DPS either. At anything smaller than a battleship anyway.

I believe from a math post that quite of lot of that DPS actually is applied. Far more than one might expect if you use a three slot tank.

If you know how to use EFT or PYFA, you will find that it is clearly not.

Only because he used gardes. Try it with bouncers. It reaches right out to lock range, no drama.

The difference between bouncers and gardes is 50dps at my skills.

TFI can realistically top a lot of the boats with the raw dps numbers and speed.

Do the The AssaultGäó, full clear in <15 minutes in that and I'll be impressed.

That being said, I'm being an ass because there's always an exception to prove the rule.

Ironically the assault is one of the best blitz missions there is because the gates are unlocked and you only need to kill 1 group to complete it.

Also, 2 boosters + scripts completely negate the damping in that mission if you want to kill everything.