EVE Search - NPC loot underminds the mining and production professions!!

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

NPC loot underminds the mining and production professions!!

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Erutpar Ambient Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.06.23 00:20:00 - [1] - Quote The title says it all. Just like drone poo, the loot from mission running and ratting undermines the entire profession of mining through reprocessing. Even if it doesn't make up 100% or 10% it still does have an impact on mining. Especially in high sec where high end minerals can be harvested through combat but not through mining. It also underminds production by generating modules out of thin air that out perform the standard production modules. Eve is supposed to be a sandbox where players make everything, not wow where u gotta go find the epic loots. Combat pilots already get instant isk payout for their profession, they also have salvaging as a secondary profession (because you have to generate wrecks to salvage now) why do they get to also generate minerals and/or modules that outperform the standard production modules. Fixes have been made in the past to try and reduce the flood of minerals from combat. While these are great steps in the right direction, the only way to really fix the hole is to take minerals out of combat. There still should be loot drop from npc ships and there does need to be a way to acquire higher meta gear. My solution to the mineral problem: Npc ships no longer drop modules. An easy fix, plain and simple. Though it might make some people/bittervets lose mandibular stability. The not so simple part would be what to replace the drops with. Well there are a couple of options that would make the drops very similar in scope but would no longer supplement the mineral supply. Drop replacement: An easy fix would be for the npc ships to drop items that would upgrade a specific module to a higher meta item. For instance, what would have originally dropped an 'arbalest' heavy missile launcher will now drop an 'arbalesr' heavy missile launcher upgrade. Then you could apply that upgrade to a heavy missile launcher I and it would then become the arbalest version. First of all it seems like a simple enough change to change all the drops to upgrades of the same name. It then also prevents mission runners and ratters from flooding the market with better versions of production items. And not only that but it puts a demand on the very much unloved basic tech I player made modules. This then inturn adds another level of mineral demand because you will need the basic module built by a player to get your upgrade. Then almost all things in the game are created by players. Not just created out of thin air as they are now. Alternatively, for added complexity for the sake of itself in the spirit of eve, you could do a system similar to the augmented and integrated drones where each faction drops parts and you use those parts, a tech I item and a BPC from a data site to create the high meta modules. But that's a much more indepth undertaking to implement. But could be a step 2 process after the first idea I gave. But either way, this would change combat piloting from a supply source that underminds mining and production to a demand source that will utilize them. And potentially add a new upgrading line of production. Let me know what anyone/everyone thinks!
Zircon Dasher 271	Posted - 2013.06.23 00:25:00 - [2] - Quote What a refreshing and innovative idea! I am so glad that I am alive here in 2009. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Schmata Bastanold Keep It Burning Stupid 861	Posted - 2013.06.23 00:40:00 - [3] - Quote I wouldn't mind that as long as you bump my L4 rewards and bounties x10 or more. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 486	Posted - 2013.06.23 00:40:00 - [4] - Quote OP must be trolling. That's the only way this can be interpreted seriously.
Zircon Dasher 271	Posted - 2013.06.23 00:45:00 - [5] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: OP must be trolling. That's the only way this can be interpreted seriously. The containment field around General Discussion has had a leak for several days. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 486	Posted - 2013.06.23 00:46:00 - [6] - Quote Zircon Dasher wrote: Alvatore DiMarco wrote: OP must be trolling. That's the only way this can be interpreted seriously. The containment field around General Discussion has had a leak for several days. Did the Amarrians run out of Vitoc? Are the repair drones malfunctioning? Is there a shortage of duct tape? Why isn't it being fixed?
Erutpar Ambient Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.06.23 01:08:00 - [7] - Quote Zircon Dasher wrote: What a refreshing and innovative idea! I am so glad that I am alive here in 2009. Schmata Bastanold wrote: I wouldn't mind that as long as you bump my L4 rewards and bounties x10 or more. Alvatore DiMarco wrote: OP must be trolling. That's the only way this can be interpreted seriously. Hello WOW players. Just wanted to let you know about this little ideology we have here in EVE Online. http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2012/balance-yes.png "Free Loot from NPC's" doesn't seem to show up in that cycle. I'm trying to imagine how to relate killing NPCs to actual sandbox activities. Oh I know! Stab random natural sand mound, obtain free sandcastle If you're opposed to this for whatever reason, then i suppose you wouldn't care if the mining and production professions just went away. Then you could just buy everything from an NPC or epic loots it from one!! Or on second thought, why don't we just have Production randomly create High meta versions of items when you produce Tech I stuff. And killing asteroids gives you a bounty too!! Also mining missions will never have unusable versions of Ore/gas to go along with the extra bounty you get for killing the rocks. Then, when you have the wreck of an asteroid you can go salvage it for regular salvage loot!!! Seriously though, if you have input then by all means throw it in there. If you're just here to flame then go to General Discussion. And if you want to farm mobs for epic loots, then go back to WOW.
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 1401	Posted - 2013.06.23 01:27:00 - [8] - Quote Erutpar Ambient wrote: Zircon Dasher wrote: What a refreshing and innovative idea! I am so glad that I am alive here in 2009. Schmata Bastanold wrote: I wouldn't mind that as long as you bump my L4 rewards and bounties x10 or more. Alvatore DiMarco wrote: OP must be trolling. That's the only way this can be interpreted seriously. Hello WOW players. Just wanted to let you know about this little ideology we have here in EVE Online. http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2012/balance-yes.png "Free Loot from NPC's" doesn't seem to show up in that cycle. I'm trying to imagine how to relate killing NPCs to actual sandbox activities. Oh I know! Stab random natural sand mound, obtain free sandcastle If you're opposed to this for whatever reason, then i suppose you wouldn't care if the mining and production professions just went away. Then you could just buy everything from an NPC or epic loots it from one!! Or on second thought, why don't we just have Production randomly create High meta versions of items when you produce Tech I stuff. And killing asteroids gives you a bounty too!! Also mining missions will never have unusable versions of Ore/gas to go along with the extra bounty you get for killing the rocks. Then, when you have the wreck of an asteroid you can go salvage it for regular salvage loot!!! Seriously though, if you have input then by all means throw it in there. If you're just here to flame then go to General Discussion. And if you want to farm mobs for epic loots, then go back to WOW. Uhh. Did you miss the Destroy --> Harvest part of that little diagram, or did I just get trolled?
Adunh Slavy 1034	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:10:00 - [9] - Quote It's a good idea. Eve has a division of labor problem and all these extra modules and minerals are a big part of it. Missions generate too many things: ISK, Modules, Minerals, Salvage and LP, although LP doesn't impact the division of labor issue in quite the same way. Each singular activity should generate at the most two types of resources, pretty much every other activity in Eve generates one type of resource for the time and effort applied to it. Missions and ratting are broken in this regard. Why is division of labor important? It's important for a number of reasons. This first and most obvious is, the more activities there are, that do not generate ISK, the more balance there is with regards to growth of the money supply. The less people there are shooting rats, the less ISK there is entering the system. If mining veld gave as ISK/hr as running lvl 4 missions, there would be a lot more people mining and instead of shooting rats. It encourages players to work with one another and trade with one another since no one activity can generate all the resources needed to accomplish a given task. It encourages players to compete for those resources both in space and in the market place. Yep, those are two contradictory statements, Welcome to Economics where scarcity is the grand mother of the concept we know as money.
Gnord Super Mining Bros - 3D 1	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:17:00 - [10] - Quote This is the only source of meta 2-5 modules. Meta modules are already refine for less than their meta 1 counterparts. The reward level for missions could be reduced (and have been a few times over the years), but it would be just as problematic to make Isk the ONLY reward for missions. Having multiple sources for raw materials is a good thing. It balances the economy, and makes it harder to monopolize them. If Goonfleet could take control of ALL of the megacyte in the galaxy, I imagine they would.

Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 187	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:18:00 - [11] - Quote My favorite part of this sort of thing are the arguments based on 'Sandbox'. Sandbox apparently means whatever the poster likes, Anti-sandbox is anything those that disagree with him like. The basic premise is not unsound. I could even get behind the loss of minerals and resulting boost to mining income and miners in general for the trade off of a production chain for meta items that are not T2. The components that make up the meta production chain would no doubt make up for the bulk of ISK that reprocessed modules would have represented. I'd also like to see room for more unique loot. Bookmarks to combat sites for extra reward, good for x hours from the time of loot. Blueprints to produce limited amounts of pirate faction ammo. Manifests asking for amounts of minerals and/or goods to be delivered to an agent somewhere, which may lead to Low Sec. Tons of things could be done
Adunh Slavy 1034	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:18:00 - [12] - Quote Gnord wrote: If Goonfleet could take control of ALL of the megacyte in the galaxy, I imagine they would. They can't, next objection.
Zircon Dasher 272	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:22:00 - [13] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: This first and most obvious is, the more activities there are, that do not generate ISK, the more balance there is with regards to growth of the money supply. The less people there are shooting rats, the less ISK there is entering the system. If mining veld gave as ISK/hr as running lvl 4 missions, there would be a lot more people mining and instead of shooting rats. I do not get the impression that CCP is actually concerned about money supply. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Adunh Slavy 1034	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:25:00 - [14] - Quote Zircon Dasher wrote: I do not get the impression that CCP is actually concerned about money supply. That's why they raised taxes and Doc E looks for new sinks.
Zircon Dasher 272	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:27:00 - [15] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: Zircon Dasher wrote: I do not get the impression that CCP is actually concerned about money supply. That's why they raised taxes and Doc E looks for new sinks. Did we see the same economic presentation at fanfest this year? Let me rephrase my comment: I did not get the impression that CCP was as concerned about money supply now as it was a year ago given the efficacy of past changes. I am not saying that they are not open to new sinks, but, rather, that the urgency and priority of finding new sinks is much lower. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Gnord Super Mining Bros - 3D 1	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:30:00 - [16] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: Gnord wrote: If Goonfleet could take control of ALL of the megacyte in the galaxy, I imagine they would. They can't, next objection. Well, they can't NOW. If we start removing sources of megacyte from the game, we make it feasible. We didn't think they could affect the entire galactic economy either, but they put a pretty decent dent in it with their Blue-Ice attack last year. I'm not really saying this should or shouldn't be done. We just have to be careful not to create exploitable bottlenecks. Tech2 material rollercoaster anyone?
Adunh Slavy 1034	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:41:00 - [17] - Quote Gnord wrote: I'm not really saying this should or shouldn't be done. We just have to be careful not to create exploitable bottlenecks. Tech2 material rollercoaster anyone? And why did they go after that ice? Because it was in a rather small area, it was controllable. Megacyte can be found all over the place, from low sec to null. They would have to control the entirety of null sec and low sec and in an environment of rising meg prices; which would encourage a lot of ninja mining. They would never be able to maintain monopoly.
Adunh Slavy 1034	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:45:00 - [18] - Quote Zircon Dasher wrote: Let me rephrase my comment: I did not get the impression that CCP was as concerned about money supply now as it was a year ago given the efficacy of past changes. I am not saying that they are not open to new sinks, but, rather, that the urgency and priority of finding new sinks is much lower. I think we can agree on that, not as urgent as it seemed to be in the past. That however does not discount the increase in player interaction, be it in the market, corps or guns, that would come with more distinct divisions of labor.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 487	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:09:00 - [19] - Quote "Gun mining" was already addressed when meta 0 modules were removed from rat loot. This had the secondary effect of also nerfing mission/ratting income even further, as the supply of modules and/or minerals yielded from PvE was decreased. Lately, between nerfed mission rewards, nerfed bounties and what loot does still drop, the only way for missions to be profitable is if you grind them for hours like some kind of bot. I guess what you're trying to do here is remove all drops and give miners the absolute monopoly on mineral acquisition? Because fleets of botted retrievers don't already make plenty of ISK, right? I'll ask you one other question: What about pirate faction, deadspace and officer modules? Should those cease to drop, as well, because you want a totalitarian monopoly on the mineral trade?
Adunh Slavy 1034	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:32:00 - [20] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: I guess what you're trying to do here is remove all drops and give miners the absolute monopoly on mineral acquisition? Because fleets of botted retrievers don't already make plenty of ISK, right? I'll ask you one other question: What about pirate faction, deadspace and officer modules? Should those cease to drop as well, simply because you want a totalitarian death-grip on the mineral trade? Aren't you cute? Mission runners are subsidized by the efforts of people that mine. Miners are paid less because you're a greedy rat murderer. Take that welfare boy! ;) So according to your reasoning, asteroids should drop salvage and give an ISK reward, right? And anyone who does trade should get free moon goo with each transaction? That sounds reasonable to you? As for dead space modules etc, that is solved by the OP. Instead of getting the item outright, you instead would get an 'upgrade' as stated in the OP. Could also be something like, a 'broken' item. and to use it, it has to first be repaired. And to repair it, you right click, choose the new option "fix" and it consumes a meta 0 module that needs to be present in the hangar. Personally I mission more than I mine, so it's not like this idea is a big money maker for me, so get off your greedy little happy horse and think about health of the game before you think about the health of your own space wallet.

Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 488	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:52:00 - [21] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: Alvatore DiMarco wrote: I guess what you're trying to do here is remove all drops and give miners the absolute monopoly on mineral acquisition? Because fleets of botted retrievers don't already make plenty of ISK, right? I'll ask you one other question: What about pirate faction, deadspace and officer modules? Should those cease to drop as well, simply because you want a totalitarian death-grip on the mineral trade? Aren't you cute? Mission runners are subsidized by the efforts of people that mine. Miners are paid less because you're a greedy rat murderer. Take that welfare boy! ;) So according to your reasoning, asteroids should drop salvage and give an ISK reward, right? And anyone who does trade should get free moon goo with each transaction? That sounds reasonable to you? As for dead space modules etc, that is solved by the OP. Instead of getting the item outright, you instead would get an 'upgrade' as stated in the OP. Could also be something like, a 'broken' item. and to use it, it has to first be repaired. And to repair it, you right click, choose the new option "fix" and it consumes a meta 0 module that needs to be present in the hangar. Personally I mission more than I mine, so it's not like this idea is a big money maker for me, so get off your greedy little happy horse and think about health of the game before you think about the health of your own space wallet. Your post breaks down like this: Quote: Ad hominem False cause, ad hominem, ad hominem. Strawman, strawman. Block of text in the middle where you answer only the part of my post you find convenient. Anecdotal, ad hominem, appeal to emotion. Please try again. Less fallacies this time - or more, if you want. I'm learning how to spot them so I can avoid them myself.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1970	Posted - 2013.06.23 04:15:00 - [22] - Quote It's a decent idea and it has been suggested before. The effect on mission runners would be negligible and it would likely do wonders to stimulate entry level manufacturing (which is essentially dead thanks to the flood of meta 1-4 mods spawned from NPC loot). Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
supernova ranger EVE University Ivy League 29	Posted - 2013.06.23 04:30:00 - [23] - Quote How do you propose to get the meta lvl items then? grab them from sites that drop blueprint copies of them? Not many options for reinserting them into the game if they are taken from their major farming area, mission rats... Easy enough fix on the isk side though... add 50k bounty per ship? covers the cost and more of most modules that are dropped
Adunh Slavy 1034	Posted - 2013.06.23 04:40:00 - [24] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Please try again. Less fallacies this time - or more, if you want. I'm learning how to spot them so I can avoid them myself. ROFL, look at your post then get back to me
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 488	Posted - 2013.06.23 04:41:00 - [25] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Please try again. Less fallacies this time - or more, if you want. I'm learning how to spot them so I can avoid them myself. ROFL, look at your post then get back to me Tu quoque!
Adunh Slavy 1034	Posted - 2013.06.23 04:46:00 - [26] - Quote supernova ranger wrote: How do you propose to get the meta lvl items then? grab them from sites that drop blueprint copies of them? Not many options for reinserting them into the game if they are taken from their major farming area, mission rats... Easy enough fix on the isk side though... add 50k bounty per ship? covers the cost and more of most modules that are dropped When a rat drops something it drops a "broken" item. To fix the broken item, you have in your hangar, the broken item and a meta 0 item of the same type. Right click the broken one and pick "fix", and poof. For instance, instead of a rat dropping "Limited Energized EM Membrane 1" it drops a "Broken Limited Energized EM Membrane 1" Now to fix it, or 'upgrade' used by the OP, you place a meta 0 "Energized EM Membrande 1" in your hangar, right click the "broken" item and pick fix. It consumes both the broken item and the meta 0 item and results in a functional "Limited Energized EM Membrane 1"
Adunh Slavy 1034	Posted - 2013.06.23 04:46:00 - [27] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Adunh Slavy wrote: Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Please try again. Less fallacies this time - or more, if you want. I'm learning how to spot them so I can avoid them myself. ROFL, look at your post then get back to me Tu quoque! Your troill powers are weak and boring.
mynnna GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1281	Posted - 2013.06.23 04:46:00 - [28] - Quote OP is a bit hyperbolic and/or hysterical. But it's an interesting notion. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 488	Posted - 2013.06.23 04:49:00 - [29] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: Your troll powers are weak and boring. Probably because I'm not trolling. mynnna wrote: But it's an interesting notion. I might be a little more interested if OP hadn't basically said "All PvE in the game should take an income nerf on top of this" by mocking the first person to suggest that bounties be raised to compensate.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1972	Posted - 2013.06.23 04:52:00 - [30] - Quote supernova ranger wrote: How do you propose to get the meta lvl items then? grab them from sites that drop blueprint copies of them? Not many options for reinserting them into the game if they are taken from their major farming area, mission rats... If the change is simply that NPC loot drops change from the item itself, to instead dropping the components needed to create the item when combined with the meta 0 module, then very little changes. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

Copyright © 2006-2025, Chribba - OMG Labs. All Rights Reserved. - perf 0,06s, ref 20250519/0121
EVE-Online™ and Eve imagery © CCP.

bitcoin: 1CHRiBBArqpw5Yz7x5KS2RRtN5ubEn5gF

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.