You expect me to waste my time to come up with a proposal on how you can reproc rat droppings to minerals when rats dropping too many things, including minerals, is what I and many others see as a problem? Right.

Now I'll meet you halfway here. You propose an idea for reprocessing wrecks to retrieve their (remaining) mineral value and I'll critique it.

Write all the words you want. It does not change the fact that many professions in Eve are supressed because shooting rats generates resources that are also generated by those other professions.

It's only been a few weeks since the expansion launched and furthermore, most of nullsec is currently at war. And on top of THAT, highsec mining is still the vast majority of mining by volume in the game... I'd have to go back and dig through Diagoras' twitter feed to find the relevant tweets, but its not like low end supply was suddenly increased by 50% or something.

1)Your SP intensive claim is factually false.
When you remove the SP that can cross over to other activities besides mineral acquisition its really not that skill intensive.
Off the top of my head the skills that can not translate are:
mining upg. I-V
exhumer IV-V
mining V(?)

Total SP value is a few mill in absolute terms and pales in comparison to other professions (so not great in relative terms either). The fact that you think this is relevant in the first place is p. laughable.

2)Your "Mission mining requires ship changes" is also factually false. Unless you mean to tell me that mining vessels that operate in places with multiple BS spawns magically lose the ability to deal with frig/cruiser rats in mining missions.

3) Your claim that highsec miners do not have access to high end materials is factually false (hint its in the same objects that mission runners get their "minerals" from)

4) You "undermind" your own argument by saying faction/deadspace/officer are ok.

Free loot from PCs doesn't show up (explicitly) in that cycle either, but that's kinda sorta what it's like for players. It's unrealistic to make NPCs function any differently from PCs in that regard. Likewise the only reasonable way to acquire officer items is to "farm mobs for epic loots." That's already an aspect of gameplay and one that CCP is very unlikely to change in the near future.

You're in Black Core Alliance. I can't take anything you say seriously.

And to your suggestion. No.

This sounds too much like smithing, smithing will not go over well in EVE.

I would be happy for rats to drop BPCs for the meta 1-4 items instead of the items themselves, with those BPCs being bonused for Invention, with each meta level giving a small increase in success chance or ME quality.

That would turn rat loot into a mineral sink rather than a fountain, and would allow the less desirable & low-meta loot to have some economic value. It would also be a nice little invention buff.

1) You forgot about Refining V, Refinery Effeciency V, Astrogeology V, Industry V, Mining Barge V, and all of the Specific refining skills IV ranging from 1 to 4x skill training time multiplier. And then if you want to fly an orca for boosting there's another load of skills including level 5 leadership skills and the 8x Industrial command ship skill. Then there's a Rorqual which requires learning cap ship skills with high multipliers and the Industrial Reconfiguration that requires Mass Production V and Advanced Mass Production IV. Not sure what professions these skill requirements pale in comparison too.

OP must be trolling.

You know, a good chunk of the materials I use for production actually come from reprocessed rat crap, since I just cannot be bothered to mine most of the time. Why do you want me to be unable to generate my own materials less efficiently than I could if I mined?

What other professions are suppressed, then? I'm interested to hear the list of professions that would suddenly be free to grow if rats dropped nothing but ISK and these weird "upgrade pieces" that a lot of players would be too lazy to bother with.

Also, I'd like to point out that someone much earlier in the thread said that shooting rats is the only way to get salvage. That's not actually correct, as the primary yield of Relic Sites is T1 and T2 salvage.

You know, a good chunk of the materials I use for production actually come from reprocessed rat crap, since I just cannot be bothered to mine most of the time. Why do you want me to be unable to generate my own materials less efficiently than I could if I mined?

1) You forgot about Refining V, Refinery Effeciency V, Astrogeology V, Industry V, Mining Barge V, and all of the Specific refining skills IV ranging from 1 to 4x skill training time multiplier. And then if you want to fly an orca for boosting there's another load of skills including level 5 leadership skills and the 8x Industrial command ship skill. Then there's a Rorqual which requires learning cap ship skills with high multipliers and the Industrial Reconfiguration that requires Mass Production V and Advanced Mass Production IV. Not sure what professions these skill requirements pale in comparison too.

2) I guess we should add drones and tanking to the list of skills to add on top of mining skills.

3) So you're counter point is that miners could switch to combat? This is the entire point of me making this thread. Good job getting it.

4) As for now my crusade is against the high volume loot. But it is true that those modules do also undermind harvesting and production.

When you kill an NPC and it drops modules, they bypass the harvesting and production cycle. Not only that but the isk acquired is also generated from the game and adds to the total in game isk requiring sinks to balance inflation

This is the idea you have to understand to get why this is an issue. Unless you're only talking about the "Realism" aspect which, in that case would mean the amount of NPCs in space would be dictated by the amount of minerals those factions farm/buy to produce them.

Now if by "Smithing" you mean making "weapons and armor" then i guess you missed the whole "sandbox" eve theory.

I would be happy for rats to drop BPCs for the meta 1-4 items instead of the items themselves, with those BPCs being bonused for Invention, with each meta level giving a small increase in success chance or ME quality.

That would turn rat loot into a mineral sink rather than a fountain, and would allow the less desirable & low-meta loot to have some economic value. It would also be a nice little invention buff.

Which means there is less game play opportunity for other people who do not care to shoot rats. Why should other players suffer for you?

I think the primary issue surrounding this isn't necessarily the materials you get from missioning/ratting, etc, but the T1 meta level items. The meta T1s dropped are better than what can be manufactured, and are obtained at rates or volumes that in many cases, drop the market prices of the meta T1s well below what it would cost to manufacture the non meta counterpart.

Just an example let's use 425mm autos:
At current min prices and before taxes + fees, they run around 130k to produce with a decent BPO material level and level 5 production efficiency. Note that that figure is at cost and before any profits. (closer to around 150k @ production efficiency 4 and no research)

The meta 3 I believe: 425mm Medium Gallium Machine Gun can currently be purchased in jita at approximately 65k. It is better and less expensive.

Imma go out on a limb and say that there aren't any T1 modules with T1 meta counterparts that can be produced for less than the average market value of its least valued meta module.

Which means there is less game play opportunity for other people who do not care to shoot rats. Why should other players suffer for you?

This is EVE Online. You know, pew pew. Seems to me that making others suffer for your enjoyment is part of the gameplay. Why should industrialists be immune to the pain, or even just some aspects of it? Why should only traders and shooters feel it all of EVE's pain in its full glory?

The meta T1s dropped are better than what can be manufactured, and are obtained at rates or volumes that in many cases, drop the market prices of the meta T1s well below what it would cost to manufacture the non meta counterpart.

Just an example let's use 425mm autos:
At current min prices and before taxes + fees, they run around 130k to produce with a decent BPO material level and level 5 production efficiency. Note that that figure is at cost and before any profits. (closer to around 150k @ production efficiency 4 and no research)

The meta 3 I believe: 425mm Medium Gallium Machine Gun can currently be purchased in jita at approximately 65k. It is better and less expensive.

Imma go out on a limb and say that there aren't any T1 modules with T1 meta counterparts that can be produced for less than the average market value of its least valued meta module.

Mining, Manufacturing, POS operations (Research as the primary driver since there would be more oppertunity to build, more meta 0 BPOs would be researched) as a consequence of POS operations ice mining too.

There's a concept known as oppertunity cost, go look it up.

I think you are assuming that the price of the dropped modules is based upon abundant supply. The funny thing is that CCP could make the drop rate .00000001% and it would not necessarily effect the market price.

If meta 1 mods are "too cheap" it has more to do with the previous nerf to mineral content (the artificial floor price) and the overall lack of people fitting them onto ships. That is why making upgrade tokens will decrease LVL 4 income. The upgrade tokens for anything but meta 4 (and sometimes meta3) will be worth squat since the demand for the actual items stems from the material content or invention.

Generally, tying meta 0 mods into named mods will only increase the demand for meta 0 on a small portion of total game items, since the demand for meta 1-3 (and even meta 4 in many cases) is not heavily driven by people using the item for its intended purpose.

The real "winners" of making this change are those items are those which have high t2 skill costs, items where t2 has worse stats than meta 4, and items which are actually used by large segments the population. In other words meta 4 weapons and a handful of other meta 3-4 modules.

Manufacturing: Not exactly "suppressed".

It's worth taking a moment here to comment that Meta modules are usually not purchased for melting down. They're bought to be used on ships or used in Invention,

Ok, so have rats drop everything, then everyone can suffer.

If player ships don't drop "everything" why should NPC ships do so? That's about as silly an idea as making mission whores suffer for the sake of industrialists.

Okay, after reading this post I have come to the conclusion that you've got to be trolling and we're all just misguidedly continuing to feed you. The only other alternative is that you've been bumped and conned by the New Order one too many times and have finally lost your marbles. Nevertheless, I'll take your bait - as bad an idea as it may be.

Research: ...I actually laughed out loud on this one. If rats didn't drop modules, research would improve? More T1 BPOs would be researched? Do you even know the first thing about research and invention?

Incidentally, I know what "opportunity cost" is. Do you?