| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
chillz
   |
Posted - 2005.11.23 13:30:00 -
[31]
The only problem with bookmarks as I see it is that they can be copied. If eveyone had to make there own bookmarks there would be about 5% of the number we have now.
People would only carry the bookmarks they actually use. Having to make your own would also fill the risk vs reward criteria. You want bookmarks to that nice 0.0 system you go ratting in. Make them yourself.
Still it's long past that point.
-----------------------------------
A gun and a packet of sandwiches.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
|
Skogen Gump
|
Posted - 2005.11.23 14:53:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Chris Henry
Genuine question: how would you exploit bookmarks? I might just be too naive, but what is there to exploit?!
well if they were client-side, you could just simply edit the co-ordinates to get you to somewhere that you hadn't been; thusly negating the need for scanners and ingenuity.
EVE is like a box of chocolates |
Chris Henry
|
Posted - 2005.11.23 15:06:00 -
[33]
Fair point, thanks.
|
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2005.11.23 15:09:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Nyphur on 23/11/2005 15:09:22
Originally by: Chris Henry
Genuine question: how would you exploit bookmarks? I might just be too naive, but what is there to exploit?!
There was an exploit once when the client had control over the creation of bookmarks. Your client would basically say to the server "create a bookmark at object x" and it would do so. The problem was that you could hack the client to make it make a bookmark at a player's location and then warp to it. Instantly busting any safespot.
This was fixed.
|
RoedNeab
|
Posted - 2005.11.23 15:54:00 -
[35]
Just delete all the BMs ingame! and lets start all over
think this will help alot..
|
Hoshi
|
Posted - 2005.11.23 15:57:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Nyphur
If you can copy a set of X,Y,Z co-ordinates stored in an object without using any processing and storage, you are a magician. Bookmarks take time to copy because of just that - they're being copied on the server and that takes time.
Also, name another online game with a copyable bookmarks system. Just one.
Starwars Galaxies. But it instead got a limit to how many BMs you can have in you datapad, 100 or something.
|
JaTak SkaDuHa
|
Posted - 2005.11.23 18:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Hoshi
Starwars Galaxies. But it instead got a limit to how many BMs you can have in you datapad, 100 or something.
100! i think you miss atleast one zero maybe two
|
Manso
|
Posted - 2005.11.23 19:30:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Manso
Originally by: TheJay
Move them clientside! 
Yeah, clientside is the key, and IMHO easy to implement.
And exploit.
A bad researched implementation may be exploidable, but with the correct security controls won't be a problem.
|
Hoshi
|
Posted - 2005.11.23 19:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: JaTak SkaDuHa
Originally by: Hoshi
Starwars Galaxies. But it instead got a limit to how many BMs you can have in you datapad, 100 or something.
100! i think you miss atleast one zero maybe two
No but it might have been 200, was a few months since I last played it. But you didn't need that many BMs (or waypoints as it where called) in SWG.
|
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2005.11.23 20:32:00 -
[40]
what you guys fail too see is that bms are not only a performance issue but even more so a playability issue ...
hands down, bms need to be removed and in no way replaced ... still I could live with the 0km warp in and a deviation that is k for me.
j0's idea is ubber ... a shame its too much work for ccp.
Greetings Grim |
Dana Blue
|
Posted - 2005.11.24 00:31:00 -
[41]
Originally by: I Arthur
and returned when fixed.
eve has got to have to worst implementation of bookmarks in the universe.
how could moving and or copying them take so long and cause so much lag? terrible.
what is the magic number of bookmarks allowed before the eve client is crippled?
this has gotten rediculous. you'd think that I wrote the code for handling them.
bookmarks = hell
How do you do agent deadspace missions with out the bookmarks? let me know hey..
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2005.11.24 00:36:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 24/11/2005 00:37:33
Originally by: Nyphur
If you can copy a set of X,Y,Z co-ordinates stored in an object without using any processing and storage, you are a magician. Bookmarks take time to copy because of just that - they're being copied on the server and that takes time.
Also, name another online game with a copyable bookmarks system. Just one.
That's because they're insisting on treating every single bookmark as a seperate item, rather than grouping them... (I'm still for making a folder a "chip", and letting BM's be added only to the origional)
Cardassius,
Not quite that simple. For example, you'd need to fix warp bubbles, and either have them useable in Empire, or new systems to replace them. Some of us ARE thinking on it.
Grim Vandal,
You don't play, remember? And I've explained the flaws with j0's idea (as novel as it is) in detail in that thread - it's just far too exploitable.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Cardassius
|
Posted - 2005.11.24 10:53:00 -
[43]
Warp bubbles usable in empire? what for?
Oh I see as a pirate you want to easy gank at incoming gates!
ASCI Recruiting!
|
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2005.11.24 10:59:00 -
[44]
warp bubbles even useable in empire would definately not solve the flaws with bms!
@ maya: so j0's idea isnt any more tweakable now or what?
even if so, its definately way better than the current system ... and this is reason enough to not think about it anymore ?
in your analogy the current bms should have never been put in the first place cuz afterall it isnt perfect right?
Greetings Grim |
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2005.11.24 10:59:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Nyphur on 24/11/2005 11:04:16
Originally by: Manso
A bad researched implementation may be exploidable, but with the correct security controls won't be a problem.
There hasn't been a security system created which is infallable. Humans created them and humans can ***** them. The simple fact is that to prevent any and all exploiting of something like this, the client must not be given control of them.
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 24/11/2005 00:37:33
Originally by: Nyphur
If you can copy a set of X,Y,Z co-ordinates stored in an object without using any processing and storage, you are a magician. Bookmarks take time to copy because of just that - they're being copied on the server and that takes time.
Also, name another online game with a copyable bookmarks system. Just one.
That's because they're insisting on treating every single bookmark as a seperate item, rather than grouping them... (I'm still for making a folder a "chip", and letting BM's be added only to the origional)
Er.. you can't group them. It's a programming thing. They're storing each bookmark as a set of x,y,z co-ordinates because that's how they're accessed. When you use a bookmark, it needs to pull that specific set of x,y,z from the database. grouping multiple sets of co-ordinates together would serve no purpose at all except that every time a bookmark is used, it would have to copy a huge file over and extract the information needed, then remove the entire file from memory (because having something big sit in memory can really affect the game server's performance). It'd be exactly the same as using bookmarks now but worse, with each bookmark call increasing server load more and with no benefits at all.
So you can't really group them. But you can remove duplicates by normalising the database using object-pointers. I'd bet they already do, though.
|
Dloan
|
Posted - 2005.11.24 12:40:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Skogen Gump
well if they were client-side, you could just simply edit the co-ordinates to get you to somewhere that you hadn't been; thusly negating the need for scanners and ingenuity.
Ignoring for a moment that maybe this is a facility that the game should include, how do you know where this somewhere is that you hadn't been if you don't use the scanner? Do you plan on just entering coordinates randomly in the hope of landing somewhere within overview range...
|
babyblue
|
Posted - 2005.11.24 12:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Nyphur
Er.. you can't group them. It's a programming thing......
So you can't really group them. But you can remove duplicates by normalising the database using object-pointers. I'd bet they already do, though.
Hmmmmmmm (sceptical eyebrow raised). If I want to copy 100 bookmarks in Eve as is, this happens:
(1) Client tells the server to copy the item 123456
(2) Server tells the client a new object exists in some location
(3) Client tells the server to copy the item 123457
(4) Server tells the client a new object exists in some location
(5) etc....
There is an alternative way of doing things:
(1) Client tells the server to copy the items 123456, 123457,123458
(2) Server tells the client new objects exist in some location.
Now, I've done this in the SQL DB front-end I'm maintaining at the moment. It sped things up by an order of magnitude. I don't know, maybe the client is already batching stuff but sometimes it doesn't look like it.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |