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bookmarks suck so bad, they should be removed now...

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I Arthur	Posted - 2005.11.23 04:46:00 - [1] and returned when fixed. eve has got to have to worst implementation of bookmarks in the universe. how could moving and or copying them take so long and cause so much lag? terrible. what is the magic number of bookmarks allowed before the eve client is crippled? this has gotten rediculous. you'd think that I wrote the code for handling them. bookmarks = hell
Mercade	Posted - 2005.11.23 04:50:00 - [2] /signed I'd rather spend hours staring at slowly approaching gates or prepare my local area for extended stays and venture only to other areas less then to make the BM's I have to now and copy and sort and fix and delete. It'd be like if gas prices went up to 20 bucks a gallon. I'd shop more effeciently and less often and hang around my neighborhood. Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Abdalion But but but....Bald is beautiful! It sure is. Wait... what are we talking about here? Nevermind.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.23 04:58:00 - [3] If you can copy a set of X,Y,Z co-ordinates stored in an object without using any processing and storage, you are a magician. Bookmarks take time to copy because of just that - they're being copied on the server and that takes time. Also, name another online game with a copyable bookmarks system. Just one.
I Arthur	Posted - 2005.11.23 05:00:00 - [4] Originally by: Nyphur Also, name another online game with a copyable bookmarks system. Just one. maybe that is the whole point?
Samuel Baxter	Posted - 2005.11.23 05:15:00 - [5] Originally by: I Arthur and returned when fixed. eve has got to have to worst implementation of bookmarks in the universe. :: Stares at I Arthur :: You're joking, right? You'd really prefer to warp to and from an asteroid field, slowly inching your way to and from it rather than warping right into it and directly back to the station? I'll concede to you perseverence, but man ... I'd personally go insane if I had to move slowly to and from mining points and stations in an Iteron mk II. Furthermore, you seem to forget that bookmarks are an integral part of agent missions. Would you really prefer to go warping all over an entire system in a [vain] attempt to locate your target. I can just imagine the agent's directions: "When you enter the system, go to the first brown planet on your left, complete with the red spots. Orbit halfway around the planet, then locate the station about 8.21AU from your position and warp to it to complete your delivery." I mean, seriously, are you joking about bookmark removal? _________________________ - Well look at this: 'pears we got here in the nick a time. What does that make us? - Big damned heroes sir. - Ain't we just.
The Coz	Posted - 2005.11.23 05:21:00 - [6] Thank the holy gods you are allowed to copy BM's to begin with. I'm a new player to the game, I got a ton of BM's handed down to me, whatever time it took to copy I've saved a millsion times over.
I Arthur	Posted - 2005.11.23 05:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Samuel Baxter :: Stares at I Arthur :: snip maybe a little more accurate "warp to" feature? i mean, after all we're "piloting" sporty inter-galatic spaceships aren't we? ____________________ what we have here is a recipe for unpleasantness.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.23 05:22:00 - [8] Originally by: I Arthur Originally by: Nyphur Also, name another online game with a copyable bookmarks system. Just one. maybe that is the whole point? No, you said eve has the worls bookmark system int eh unverse. If no other game uses them, it also has the best one in the universe by definition. That's the problem with your argument, it's based on a statement which means nothing but inferrs what you want.
Ankanos	Posted - 2005.11.23 05:25:00 - [9] Originally by: I Arthur and returned when fixed. eve has got to have to worst implementation of bookmarks in the universe. how could moving and or copying them take so long and cause so much lag? terrible. what is the magic number of bookmarks allowed before the eve client is crippled? this has gotten rediculous. you'd think that I wrote the code for handling them. bookmarks = hell um.. do us all a favor.. -and go away. ---
I Arthur	Posted - 2005.11.23 05:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: I Arthur Originally by: Nyphur Also, name another online game with a copyable bookmarks system. Just one. maybe that is the whole point? No, you said eve has the worls bookmark system int eh unverse. If no other game uses them, it also has the best one in the universe by definition. That's the problem with your argument, it's based on a statement which means nothing but inferrs what you want. we cannot know the whole universe, so it is entirely possible that there is a better solution to bookmarks out there... somewhere. my assertion stands the eve has the worts, which is entirely possible.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.23 05:33:00 - [11] Originally by: I Arthur we cannot know the whole universe, so it is entirely possible that there is a better solution to bookmarks out there... somewhere. my assertion stands the eve has that worts, which is entirely possible. In a universal set x, where x is a set of 1 integer indexed 1 to 1, 1 is always true. 1 is also simultaneously the highest and lowest integer in the set x. Say it as many times as you like but saying eve has the worst system, while inherently true, also implies eve has the best system, which is also inherently true by the set of systems bieing limited to a single element. Of course, the system could be redesigned to improve it somewhat. Copying bookmarks should, if it doesn't already, only copy a pointer to the bookmark object rather than copying the object itself. Bookmarks would be pointers to co-ordinate objects, nothing more, and those objects would be stored separately. Co-ordinate objects with no pointers to them in the bookmark system would be erased at downtime. This system has the same effect of storing bookmarks as their own objects but vastly reduces the server load they cause since a healthy number of the bookmarks out there are copies of sets. However, this is all a moot point really since they're getting nerfed to smitherines and travel is getting buffed to make them obsolete excet for having a bookmark to somewhere specific like a safespot, in which case the system I described would still be of use, of course, but to a lesser extent.
I Arthur	Posted - 2005.11.23 05:56:00 - [12] Originally by: Nyphur In a universal set x, snip well, look at the big brain on Nyphur. If we can come up with a better solution for moving/copying bookmarks in this forum, then eve's has got to be the worst and therefore cannot be the best.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.23 05:58:00 - [13] Edited by: Nyphur on 23/11/2005 05:58:41 Originally by: I Arthur Originally by: Nyphur In a universal set x, snip well, look at the big brain on Nyphur. If we can come up with a better solution for moving/copying bookmarks in this forum, then eve's has got to be the worst and therefore cannot be the best. O_o That argument was an insult to logic itself! ^^
w0rmy	Posted - 2005.11.23 06:06:00 - [14] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: I Arthur Originally by: Nyphur Also, name another online game with a copyable bookmarks system. Just one. maybe that is the whole point? No, you said eve has the worls bookmark system int eh unverse. If no other game uses them, it also has the best one in the universe by definition. That's the problem with your argument, it's based on a statement which means nothing but inferrs what you want. His statements correct, if eve have the only bookmark system, it does have the worst. Dumb point, but not what his arguments based on, that was clearly visable in the first few words. Badly spelt, but clear as day.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.23 06:51:00 - [15] Edited by: Nyphur on 23/11/2005 06:51:47 Originally by: w0rmy His statements correct, if eve have the only bookmark system, it does have the worst. Dumb point, but not what his arguments based on, that was clearly visable in the first few words. Badly spelt, but clear as day. I didn't say he was incorrect. Just that his statement amounts to absolutely nothing since he is correct AND the opposite of what he is saying is also correct. In a boolean system like this (with the two options being "best" and "worst"), that's an absurd statement. It doesn't mean anything.
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2005.11.23 08:09:00 - [16] Originally by: I Arthur and returned when fixed. eve has got to have to worst implementation of bookmarks in the universe. how could moving and or copying them take so long and cause so much lag? terrible. what is the magic number of bookmarks allowed before the eve client is crippled? this has gotten rediculous. you'd think that I wrote the code for handling them. bookmarks = hell Detaurus is that you? nuff said Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it! To the nerfmobile!
mimik	Posted - 2005.11.23 09:30:00 - [17] Edited by: mimik on 23/11/2005 09:30:47 Originally by: I Arthur and returned when fixed. eve has got to have to worst implementation of bookmarks in the universe. how could moving and or copying them take so long and cause so much lag? terrible. what is the magic number of bookmarks allowed before the eve client is crippled? this has gotten rediculous. you'd think that I wrote the code for handling them. bookmarks = hell if people choose to use bookmarks in a way other than they were designed to be used then u cant really complain about their effectiveness. bookmarks were never meant to be copied by the hundred. no-one ever thought that players would have thousands of bookmarks saved that they never use. its like complaining that minmatar ships cant use lasers coz their cap sucks or amarr ships are hard to shield tank.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.11.23 09:44:00 - [18] aiiiee! detaurus is taking over the universe!
TheJay	Posted - 2005.11.23 09:47:00 - [19] Move them clientside!
Sanaen Eydanwadh	Posted - 2005.11.23 09:55:00 - [20] I feel some kind of dTja-vu... strange (also the copying of big sets of bookmarks works bad BECAUSE it wasn't meant to be used in that massive way at first, hence the numerous gameplay issues and the also numerous threads about possible solutions to the system which appear week after week for the last 4-5 months )
Manso	Posted - 2005.11.23 09:59:00 - [21] Originally by: TheJay Move them clientside! Yeah, clientside is the key, and IMHO easy to implement.
Kreegor	Posted - 2005.11.23 10:01:00 - [22] Simple fact is if ccp removed bookmarks, you would find alot of peeps leaving eve. i dont no about you guys, but i could not play the game without them.
Tonkin	Posted - 2005.11.23 10:25:00 - [23] dont copy the bms then, dont moan about them. if you want less lag move to 0.0 then copy them, and tell me your location while doing them. why you need bms in empire space anyways. there no point for them there because concord is about.
Cardassius	Posted - 2005.11.23 10:40:00 - [24] It's very easy, just let everyone insta warp to something. PROS: - faster travel everywhere! - more pilots in 0.0 cause of that (ExoDUSSSSS) - no need for insta bm's anymore! (saves time!) CONS: - pirates start whining why they can't kill noobs (camp the jump in point?) ASCI Recruiting!
Thomus	Posted - 2005.11.23 10:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Kreegor Simple fact is if ccp removed bookmarks, you would find alot of peeps leaving eve. i dont no about you guys, but i could not play the game without them. /signed either i wouldn't play, or i'd be come a player who never looks at his screen unless i've reached a waypoint. ---------------- Tom
babyblue	Posted - 2005.11.23 10:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Nyphur If you can copy a set of X,Y,Z co-ordinates stored in an object without using any processing and storage, you are a magician. Bookmarks take time to copy because of just that - they're being copied on the server and that takes time. Also, name another online game with a copyable bookmarks system. Just one. You are basically saying that it takes that much time just because it takes that much time. Actually it takes that much time because it probably isn't coded very well.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.11.23 11:15:00 - [27] Originally by: Samuel Baxter :: Stares at I Arthur :: You're joking, right? You'd really prefer to warp to and from an asteroid field, slowly inching your way to and from it rather than warping right into it and directly back to the station? I'll concede to you perseverence, but man ... I'd personally go insane if I had to move slowly to and from mining points and stations in an Iteron mk II. You forget that everyone would have to deal with it. Production will drop, prices will rise and the people that could put with it would be rewarded for their trouble. Originally by: Samuel Baxter Furthermore, you seem to forget that bookmarks are an integral part of agent missions. Would you really prefer to go warping all over an entire system in a [vain] attempt to locate your target. I can just imagine the agent's directions: "When you enter the system, go to the first brown planet on your left, complete with the red spots. Orbit halfway around the planet, then locate the station about 8.21AU from your position and warp to it to complete your delivery." I mean, seriously, are you joking about bookmark removal? The discussion about bookmarks have always been about INSTA-bookmarks. The only insta agents give to my knowledge are the ones for accelerator gates. Agent bookmarks are not the problem and you should know that. Originally by: I Arthur maybe a little more accurate "warp to" feature? i mean, after all we're "piloting" sporty inter-galatic spaceships aren't we? So warping like say... 50 AU, which is around 7.500.000.000 km with an accuracy of 15km is not accurate enough? You can compare it with trying to hit a big dartboard on the surface of the moon. Originally by: Cardassius It's very easy, just let everyone insta warp to something. PROS: - faster travel everywhere! - more pilots in 0.0 cause of that (ExoDUSSSSS) - no need for insta bm's anymore! (saves time!) CONS: - pirates start whining why they can't kill noobs (camp the jump in point?) A bigger con is that fast travel = bad. The galactic village effect is one of the reason of massive lag because everybody has the option to simply gather at only a few hubs. Also it is bad for trade and business in general. Who put those rats in the fridge?!
Professor McFly	Posted - 2005.11.23 11:57:00 - [28] This can't be Detaurus, since removal of BMs hurts big ships more than small ships ____________________ 1) Buy Eve Time Card 2) Sell it for ISK 3) You just legally bought ISK for real money!
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.23 12:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Manso Originally by: TheJay Move them clientside! Yeah, clientside is the key, and IMHO easy to implement. And exploit.
Chris Henry	Posted - 2005.11.23 12:16:00 - [30] Genuine question: how would you exploit bookmarks? I might just be too naive, but what is there to exploit?! --------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Kill the Bunny.

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