lolz. How terrible are you if you can't kill a non-tanked t1 before they warp off?

so you want a i-win-button?

whats your problem? if "most" ships are with stabs you will win "most" fights if you fit more scrams ..
if you meet a combat fitted ship and have to much scrams ... your risk you have to bear for getting other easy kills.

Seems some folks have not got the idea.

I Do not want to nerf Warp core Stabs. I want to nerf the profit from fitting them. As I said in the 1st post. I Don't want to stop the folks using warp core stabs from escaping.

I Make it easy for you shall I?

Fit a few Warp Core Stabilizers? Then your chance for successfully "Hacking" or "Analyzing" a can in a site is greatly reduced. Not imposable. Just a lot less likely.

Don't fit any Warp Core Stabilizers and your win rate/Drop rate from "Hacking" or "Analyzing" is higher and so your profit from doing the site without using a ship with Warp Core Stabilizers goes up.

I Do not want to change the way Warp Core Stabilizers work in regards to escaping. That's what they are for. I Want to stop it beaning overly profitable to fit them.

Risk Reward is not balanced in the current system.

Again, This issue only really relates to LowSec. Hisec has it's own way of things. You can do the sites in any ship you like and not worry too much about PvP.

0.0 wormhole space has interdictors. Bubble beats any amount of Warp Core Stabilizers.

You should try the Mini-game before making suggestions as -80% Strength kills any chance of completing a site.

HTFU, covops have paper tanks.

lol, Any how many have you killing in a lowsec expo site? Not many that's for sure.

I think people here are missing the point. WCS are intended for travel fits and travel fits only,

No they aren't, they're intended to negate the effects of scrams and disruptors.

Just adapt and fit 2 scrams, stop asking for a nerf to something because you don't want to change your cookie cutter fit.

I think people here are missing the point. WCS are intended for travel fits and travel fits only, with enormous reductions in performance if they're used in professions. The current nerfs worked fine when the primary professions were restricted to anomalies and missions (where you need all the slots you can get) but don't work when you don't need your slots (like in current exploration and FW plexing professions).

The idea is simply asking that if people fit these that they're penalized in their profession, just like how the current module is intended to penalize use of the module in PvE and PvP.

Seems some folks have not got the idea.

I Do not want to nerf Warp core Stabs. I want to nerf the profit from fitting them.

Why not also include 80% reductions in mining yield, gas harvesting, and salvaging chance?

I actually support this, WCS are annoying.

Covert Ops Nullified Warp Core Stabbed T3s are more annoying though...

WCS are intended for travel fits and travel fits only

Khanid Navy Scrambler is a 3 strength scrambler.

You are welcome.

So does the True Sansha scam, but if you think I am going to spend that kind of ISK just to kill a WCS stabbed frig. You have got another thing coming. Again, Risk reward is wrong. Risk of me losing a 100+m ISK mod just to kill a 3m ISK ship is not going to happen.


On a side note. WCS can be used in PVP and very effectively too. Just go and look on the smartbombing Machariel fit.

You are not willing to pay "that kind of isk" to kill an exploration frig, but you come here instead and whine like a baby about stabbed non combat ships? Should really reflect on your goals here in this game.

So does the True Sansha scam, but if you think I am going to spend that kind of ISK just to kill a WCS stabbed frig. You have got another thing coming. Again, Risk reward is wrong. Risk of me losing a 100+m ISK mod just to kill a 3m ISK ship is not going to happen.

So does the True Sansha scam, but if you think I am going to spend that kind of ISK just to kill a WCS stabbed frig. You have got another thing coming. Again, Risk reward is wrong. Risk of me losing a 100+m ISK mod just to kill a 3m ISK ship is not going to happen.


On a side note. WCS can be used in PVP and very effectively too. Just go and look on the smartbombing Machariel fit.

You are not willing to pay "that kind of isk" to kill an exploration frig, but you come here instead and whine like a baby about stabbed non combat ships? Should really reflect on your goals here in this game.

Have you tried this?

Combat Files: Explorer Hunting in Low-Sec with Stealth Bomber

In the new sites profession, the modules most used to increase isk/hour are scanners and scanning equipment, the most used of which are all medium slot modules. Therefore, in the new professions, you're not sacrificing isk/hour in order to gain protection.

So does the True Sansha scam, but if you think I am going to spend that kind of ISK just to kill a WCS stabbed frig. You have got another thing coming. Again, Risk reward is wrong. Risk of me losing a 100+m ISK mod just to kill a 3m ISK ship is not going to happen.


On a side note. WCS can be used in PVP and very effectively too. Just go and look on the smartbombing Machariel fit.

And that assumption of you is wrong as i've pointed out earlier already. The stabs reduce targeting range greatly. That means flying from can to can in sites where containers are far apart instead of just warping in, quickly scanning all cans from a distance and cherry pick. Some nullsec sites the cans are 60-70 km apart.

So basically what you're saying to us is "I don't want to take advantage of the tools that are available to me, I demand that the game bend and be rebalanced to suit my needs instead."

Also, you're not willing to take a risk but you demand that your prey do so? Really? Are you on drugs, or are you just a complete buffoon? Moreover, please remind me what risk a virtually-weaponless CovOps presents to your combat-oriented machine.

This feels like I'm in some twisted parody of a "Nerf AFK Cloaking" thread.

One last question. Are you one of those people who has no friends and no alts, or do you just feel like you're completely entitled to solo kills of ships that are specifically designed to be slippery and escape from threats?

-SNIP-
My assertion is that if you're dumb enough to get pointed you should die.

While I feel devolving to name calling is hardly productive, I do think you pass over a few issues here. The idea of Plexing/Hacking in lowsec/nullsec is that you are vulnerable while you do so. That is why we, as pirates, demand our prey take the risk, as we are the "risk". "Taking advantage of the tools that are available" is exactly what we're doing when fitting points, and covops pilots when they fit WCS. As agressors we lose a crucial mid-slot and as defenders they SHOULD lose isk/hour. But they don't, except in the case pointed out in the above post. WCS are hardly the only weapon against a pirate that these ships have, as a good eye on dscan is always the first and best line of defense against getting ganked.

My assertion is that if you're dumb enough to get pointed you should die.

While I think that this does not take away from my original argument, I still find the fit incredibly interesting. It wouldn't be very helpful in FW plexes as the targets are constantly moving, but it'd definitely help to hunt scan sites.

+1

What you're saying in this thread is basically "I don't want to use faction points even though they'll solve my problem. I demand that the game instead bend and rebalance itself so that I don't have to."

My assertion is that if you're dumb enough to get pointed you should die.

Our assertion is if you didn't bring enough points to hold, or enough DPS to kill a t1 frig, then they can call you dumb instead.

The chances of getting within scram range of a FW/Covops in a site is nonexistent. They sit aligned to some celestial at around 30km from the gate. Now I have no issue fitting a sebo to try and point them before they warp, and I often get a point if I do, but it's long point and useless against these setups. You need to be able to do 4-5 points in Warp Disrupt to be able to disrupt most of the cookie cutter WCS fits for FW/site. Doing that amount of warp points while retaining a lock speed to target those ships and do it from the range the beacon/plex warps you into is just not an option. It would mean no prop mod, no rigs, etc. Nothing but points.

And that's ridiculous.

Maybe you guys haven't pirated lowsec since the addition of FW and the new plexes but it's nigh impossible to catch these guys. And that means the risk vs. reward ratio on these setups is way off. And, when you manage to actually kill one, he loses 10-12m + whatever was looted. Maybe more if he was in a T2 ship like a covops, but they're even harder to kill. And given what the average FW/site makes nowadays, that's tiny.

In all honesty while complaining about not being able to catch and trap or alpha a frigate that can't fight back is kind of dumb there is a valid point in this topic.

If warp core stabilizers function in a way so as to limit the effectiveness of ships in combat should they also function to limit the effectiveness of ships doing other things such as mining, probing, salvaging, hacking, and so on? Leaving aside the OP and his failings, both perceived and actual, it's an interesting question as developers sometimes have issues noticing emergent gameplay issues until they become gameplay problems.

Anyway... If WCS is such an issue, does not a heavy interdictor solve it?

Very good point. It rather does, doesn't it.

They do already as has been explained elsewhere in this thread but I will reiterate:
They halve scan resolution meaning you need to be in the site longer due to longer locking times
&
More importantly, they halve your target range so with two fitted, which is often the case, you have 1/4 of your original locking range which on a frigate makes it a very short locking range. This means that you have to move from one can to another, making the time you're uncloaked and in the site much longer meaning you're more at risk from being caught by prepared predators.

There really doesn't need to be any more adverse affects to WCS.

As how does that factor into probing?

Now the some folks here will say. Fit more Scrams. Well you could do that. But then you gimp your ship for tank or other e-war mods. No point going into PvP if you gimp your fit. Remember. Not all t1 frigs in theses sites are WCS fitted. Some of them are proper combat fit.

The solution is very simple, you scan down the sites before them you wait in a cloaky stealth bomber with 2 scrams and a web, they are so detracted by the mini game that you have plenty time to lock them up and apply all your modules to them by that time they are pretty much screwed, and they have juicy loot in the holds by the time you catch them :] i have killed a few this way tbh its more profitable farming them than actualy running the hacking sites.

In all honesty while complaining about not being able to catch and trap or alpha a frigate that can't fight back is kind of dumb there is a valid point in this topic.

If warp core stabilizers function in a way so as to limit the effectiveness of ships in combat should they also function to limit the effectiveness of ships doing other things such as mining, probing, salvaging, hacking, and so on? Leaving aside the OP and his failings, both perceived and actual, it's an interesting question as developers sometimes have issues noticing emergent gameplay issues until they become gameplay problems.