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Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 12:35:00 -
[1]
Dear CCP, people that purposedly want to equip their ship to avoid getting blockaded must be given the chance to do so. Otherwise we will be totally at the mercy of any gate campers with a 25+ km warp in range. If you are not aware, what happens is this: You warp in, get lagged down, get targeted, get webbed/warpjammed and close to instakilled, severely outnumbered. The only way to avoid this is to activate your MWD 1-2 seconds before you exit warp to slingshot you past the blockade. It requires awareness, the correct equipment and a med slot, a -50% shield and -25% cap penalty! I think that was a pretty fair deal, its a pretty high cost to travel relatively safely through pirate space and you need to be prepared correctly! I understand the camperteens cried you floods because they can not grief the better players that come prepared. What I wonder is: SHOULD THEY be able to grief all solo/smallcorp players regardlessly???
If you already decided to kill the MWD in that respect, please, ATLEAST introduce a good anti-webbing module. It is not viable to targetdisrupt all campers and hope that you jam the webber! Do you want to enable non-runnable gates? 
I give this change 1 crossed-over dog**** on a scale from 1 to 5. 
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
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Zorael
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Posted - 2003.08.12 12:40:00 -
[2]
Just mount two MWDs instead of one, and nothing can stop you.
- - -
Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
Nightwing
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Posted - 2003.08.12 12:42:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
Just mount two MWDs instead of one, and nothing can stop you.
Wow, then I would have 25% shields and < half capacitor. Lag a little coming in and you die quicker...
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.08.12 12:48:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Intruders on 12/08/2003 12:50:25
Never mind Nightwing, there is always someone with a stupid suggestion. With all respects Miss. :)
We can do this as a protest, get all our Scorpions with 8 mwd's on and lag those servers to death..
edit edit.. :(
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Zorael
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Posted - 2003.08.12 12:51:00 -
[5]
Nightwing, he said he wanted to run blockades : this is the best solution to do it. I totally agree that, as with any specialized setup, you don't want to use it for general combat :p
You don't need shields with this setup, because you will be reaching the gate well before your immunity timer expires.
And in the advent you are a bit lagged and your timer expires before you reach the gate, you can do 0-4000 m/s in about 5 seconds, because your acceleration will be the product of the 2 MWDs (acceleration of MWD1 * acceleration of MWD2)...
- - -
Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 12:56:00 -
[6]
2 MWD is not the solution. Period.
Campers do not need any more advantages, they can pretty much close down systems for solo/smallcorp players the way it is already.
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
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Nightwing
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Posted - 2003.08.12 12:56:00 -
[7]
So, no one has ever lagged enough that your "Invulnerability" wears off and you "Appear" already targeted, webbed, scrambled, shields falling (or gone) to normal NPC pirates?
PC pirates do a lot more damage, and do it a lot quicker. Quartering your shield strength is not the answer...
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Zorael
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:05:00 -
[8]
Quote:
So, no one has ever lagged enough that your "Invulnerability" wears off and you "Appear" already targeted, webbed, scrambled, shields falling (or gone) to normal NPC pirates?
PC pirates do a lot more damage, and do it a lot quicker. Quartering your shield strength is not the answer...
It happened to me several times, yes, and what saved me was my pair of MWDs, which allowed me to reach the gate even while webified.
If I didn't have 2 MWDs, I would have been toast, because if you ever tried to beat a webifier with only 1 MWD (starting from 20 m/s), you know it's impossible.
So what other solution do you suggest (besides bookmarks) ?
- - -
Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
Nightwing
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:10:00 -
[9]
The only way to make this viable, is to introduce an ANTI-Web module (like the warp thingee). Because as it stands, you will be webbed at least once at a camp. What is needed is a way to negate this. (losing another med slot)
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Zorael
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:20:00 -
[10]
My apologies, I thought you wanted a way to run blockades using existing ingame tools.
After rereading the thread, I realized you all were begging about yet another anti-something module to make your carebear life even more riskfree.
/me ejects from the thread
- - -
Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:23:00 -
[11]
Thanks.
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Molly on 12/08/2003 13:32:47
Remove jump gates. Allow everyone to teleport at any location they wish too.
The whining would go on anyway.
For your information, you can still use MWDs in combination with Afterburners and Overdrives to run through most blockades. Yay, you can even use bookmarks to instant jump.
But we will screw you anyway. We will use ships with < 1 sec locktime and dozens of webifiers and GRIEF you, your corpmates and all others.
That's why we are in the game. To grief.
Idiots.
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
slacker
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:32:00 -
[13]
MWD is no solution as many indy's won't take one - even with power skills and modules (see the Mammoth) - never mind mounting 2.
The MWD was limp enough anyway without nerfing it more.
The devs should stop fixing things that aren't broken and start fixing things that are.
--
slacker |
Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:39:00 -
[14]
Molly> Oh my god, what a flappy comment. If CCP officially declares that this game is meant for acne-teen campers and really large corps only, then you have a point. Since that is yet to happen, ideas have to come forth to make small corps and lonewolf playing viable. There should be a niche for everyone, that's the policy of EVE last time I heard.
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
___________________________________________ |
Skeeve
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:53:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Skeeve on 12/08/2003 13:54:33
the MWD idea is the only viable solution... for now. If you hit MWD just before warp exit you will zip by and gate, if you get lagged .. well. insurance helps..LOL... but you travel in pirate systems with the knowledge that being destroyed is a possibility. But there is a "guilty" pleasure in whipping by in my Bestower and 1500+m/s sending a post to Local "You guys SUCK as Pie Rats"  and gating .. yep.. I get hit with warp/web.. even get the odd shot hitting me. but I'm thru the gate before I get hurt. Unless the situation gets REALLY bad this is the best solution avail rite now.
"Your Mother was a Hamster.. and your Father smelt of Elderberries!" - traditional French Insult |
Die Harpie
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:56:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Die Harpie on 12/08/2003 13:58:16
Edited by: Die Harpie on 12/08/2003 13:56:52
Quote:
But we will screw you anyway. We will use ships with < 1 sec locktime and dozens of webifiers and GRIEF you, your corpmates and all others.
That's why we are in the game. To grief.
Idiots.
I believe you are the one who called yourself a griefer first, Molly. You pretty much hit that nail right on the head. Nice admission of it.
Gate Camping is nothint new in the history of Piracy. You have a few choices on how to deal with it.
1) Stay away from the areas that Griefers like Molly camp gates.
2) Equip yourself to fly through it with 2 MWD and a nice Shield Hardener.
3) Get organized and fight them.
But please stop asking for CCP to invent new hardware in the game to make your life easier. Granted, they have some things to fix so that Griefers have a harder time of things. LIke the 1.0 Security Exploit that some have openly admitted to using as retaliation against CCP as well as the Grid Exploit, but, asking for something new every time something does not go your way is lame. Learn the game.
Gate camping by a Pirate is part of the game. It should be impossible in .5 and up and next to impossible in anything above 0.0. The Griefers are not pirates but just out there to ruin your fun because that is how they get their kicks.
Use the map, stay out of the areas with high pod kills and ship kills. I do, not a death yet. |
Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:56:00 -
[17]
Lol silly! There is no really viable option to run blockades if this changes goes online and you know it.
If you only think this is whining, why do you care to reply, making the thread stay on top? Because you want this change online without any other means for people doing solo hunting, trading or agent missions to protect themselves because that is in your camping interests. Right?
Right.
And I call this acne-tactics because there is no challenge, no excitement in camping, especially if you will get time to target every vessel that passes by and web it. It's just a matter of large numbers and a feeling of virtual "power". Definately acne. 
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
___________________________________________ |
Alotta Fagina
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:58:00 -
[18]
Molly always have well thought out and intelligently put answers... Sec rating and IQ are the same for some pirates.... -10
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Shintai
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:05:00 -
[19]
if you need to accelerate, and you got 1-2 Webs on you. Not even 2 MWDs will save you.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Stavros
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:05:00 -
[20]
Right thats it... I'm gonna agree with molly, I didnt WANT to have to do it, but you asshats made me..
You guys have many ways to run blockades as it is, bookmarks, warping in from different objects, mwd's, sensor jammers, sensor dampeners.
All you have to do to avoid blockades is keep your eye on the map, on the ships destroyed options. So like you know, if you see a region where 3000 ships destroyed in last 24 hours, you might get a weee tiny little bit suspicios and either not go there or be DAMN careful when u do.
I have said this before and I will say it again, pirate blockades catch only the stupid and the lazy. If you have a brain and are not-afking though a region that has had hundreds of podkills in the last few days, its easy to warp in, see the badguys and warp out. True this doesnt get you through the blockade, but it doesnt get you dead either.
Who knows this might encourage some of you smack talking anti-pirate corps (what few genuine ones that actually exist) to try and do something about us. But hey, why bother with in game solutions when u can come on the forums in *****?!!?!?
In summation...
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I LOVE NEXT PATCH
Stav
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:09:00 -
[21]
Oh dear,
I agree with Stavr0s, whoohoo!
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:16:00 -
[22]
"its easy to warp in, see the badguys and warp out"
... but then you have to bear the anguish on Setec's face as he screams on the forum in frustration at those 'damn, dumb, slippery, lazy, whining, timer-exploiting CAREBEARS!!' :s
overall though, uhmm, yeah to most of that...
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Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:17:00 -
[23]
The only way that actually works is bookmarks on top of the gate, and that requires that you were there before. All other options gets you targetted == webbed == dead, unless the blockade sucks.
If that's the purpose of CCP, sure go ahead, I will adapt. Call me carebear, I'll call you acnekids, who cares. I do have the right to give CCP my view on the effects of the coming changes before they go online. That's all.
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
___________________________________________ |
Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:21:00 -
[24]
And for the record, I think the MWD slingshots are a cool element of the game. A little like bunnyjumping in Quake 1... not really put there on purpose from the start but it adds flavour.
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
___________________________________________ |
Stavros
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:29:00 -
[25]
yes but bunny hopping is kind of an exploit, hence it was removed in cs etc.
And before you quote me all this **** about skil etc balh blah to do it and i am just whining cos i couldn't, I could so :-P
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Severus Trajan
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:36:00 -
[26]
Oh yeah, now I realize why I disliked large industrials zipping past cruisers - it reminds me of the silly, annoying, obnoxious jumping in some lower-quality FPSs! Thanks man! 
The blockades are, on the other hand, easily avoided by utilizing one of the more common concepts of Ghost Recon..."Check MAP!"
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Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:44:00 -
[27]
In CS it was more of an exploit because the maps were balanced on timing. It is still in Quake/TFC as BJing/hooking as far as I know because it added flavour (and some more skill).
About the blockades: I always know they are there, that is not the problem, but without MWD I will get insta-killed if I warp in, as I said, unless the blockade really sucks. A good blockade could catch me even while slingshooting. It's just as possible as passing a blockade without MWD.
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
___________________________________________ |
slacker
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:49:00 -
[28]
Checking map is no good if you're this first unlucky customers of a 'rat camp.
It's interesting how these changes will effect strategy in-game.
I think small corps will start merging with larger ones very quickly - as the alternative is live in empire space or get killed in an alliance held area.
--
slacker |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:52:00 -
[29]
No, because during the time that you slingshot, you are invulnerable. The pirates can't evne lock you.
With the MWD out of warp disabled, you can still get to the gate, if you set everything up properly, or if you're fast/have the right modules for it.
Or you can take a detour..
Like stavr0s said, you already have many ways of avoiding blockades, use them instead of 'exploiting' the system wherein you have lock immunity longer then the time it takes you to get to the gate whilst mwd'ing.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Ellison
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Posted - 2003.08.12 14:59:00 -
[30]
For travel, fit 1 mwd, 1 or 2 abs, and 3 nanofiber structures. On a battleship this setup gives you wicked acceleration, easily as good as using 1 mwd with the current build coming out of warp at top speed. With this setup you can reach any gate in a couple seconds.
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Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 15:11:00 -
[31]
So, the cost for relatively safe travel should now be: -50% shields, -25% cap, 3 medium slots and 3 low slots and ~-30% structure HP?
The only one that caught the point is RUS. This change is not very hard against big corps, they will just gather and clear the gate. Once again CCP hurts sole players and small corps! That's the problem.
I understand that you drool over this change But what happened to PKing for the kicks of it? 5 BS/cruisers hitting a lone trader is no achievement what so ever...
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.08.12 15:13:00 -
[32]
And that is why you -avoid- the system they are camping.
no sole player will ever make it through a 5 cruiser blockade. To suggest that should be possible is silly :p
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Xane
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Posted - 2003.08.12 15:14:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Xane on 12/08/2003 15:15:28
A better solution would be to allow ECM/Shield modules to occupy the high slots.
As it stands, the medium slots have to share between propulsion, shields, ECM, ECCM and other disruptors.
For those intending not to fight, the high slots are a waste of time, they could be used to take up some of the slack.
Special high slot versions of ECM and shield enhancements would be nice.
Alternatively a "meta slot" module that converts a high slot to a medium slot.
x a n e |
Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 15:17:00 -
[34]
Disc> What's so silly about Han Solo?
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You are never alone in schizophrenia.
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Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 15:23:00 -
[35]
To repeat myself: The effect will be that more players playing in hard working small corps will get podded by bigger pirate corps. If that is the desired effect CCP are after, game on. I still don't think it's a good call for EVE in general. It won't affect me much personally unless I want to do many agent missions near a camped gate.
Isn't it time that the gate campers evolve their gameplay to the next level as well? One of the easiest jobs will just get alot more pro*****ble. I think that change was uncalled for.
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
___________________________________________ |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.08.12 15:27:00 -
[36]
Quote:
To repeat myself: The effect will be that more players playing in hard working small corps will get podded by bigger pirate corps. If that is the desired effect CCP are after, game on. I still don't think it's a good call for EVE in general. It won't affect me much personally unless I want to do many agent missions near a camped gate.
No, it means smaller corps will have to be more careful and/or travel together (always a good idea).
Quote:
Isn't it time that the gate campers evolve their gameplay to the next level as well? One of the easiest jobs will just get alot more pro*****ble. I think that change was uncalled for.
Easy?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Angelsfist
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Posted - 2003.08.12 15:28:00 -
[37]
Xane, I like your idea of a meta slot. ie converting a high slot to a med slot.
In regards to the whole issue of blocade running.
1st the majority of blocades are set in 0.0 systems. That being the case, they are suppose to be very risky. If you feel, that you can not run the gate w/ a MW setup then go with some corp mates or better yet make some new friends while you travel.
Checking the map often is a very good idea, especially as you near known pirate camping sites. Also, when traveling keep your local channel open and interact with people as you see them. ( This is an interactive game ) When I was in a cruiser, some pirates let me past just because they liked me from talking in local.
Pirates to, will repect you abit more if you try to fight them while you are fleeing.
As the game is now, there are few places for PvP gates and stations are just the few places where it is more likely.
Like it or not PvP is integral part of the game and the sooner people adapt the better. There is always Earth and Beyond for those who feel they just cant cut it here in EVE.
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Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 15:39:00 -
[38]
My opinion is that there should be available means to equip your ship to run blockades. It could and should be reasonably hard to get the required equipment, but the possibility should be there, without completely nerfing your ship.
I mean, "Hi corp, gather up 10 of you, I need to do 30 agent missions in Obe!". You see? Not really practical...
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
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Legonas Tedams
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Posted - 2003.08.12 16:07:00 -
[39]
just why should it be so damn easy for someone to run a blockade? in my opinion, if someone takes the time to set one up for any worthwhile amount of time, it should be near impossible to break it without finding an alternate route!
Why do you EXPECT to be able to run a blockade in the first place? why do you ASSUME you should be able to get past a horde of BS's and cruisers? what makes you BELIEVE a solo player should have even the smallest chance of surviving that encounter?
There is NO reason why they should put in any sort of antiweb module, and the "nerfing" of hte mwds will probably be one of the greatest economy boosters in the game to date. all you carebears might actually have to buy new ships once the pirates gank you!
ōThe universe is an infinitely faceted diamond, and each of our souls is reflected in its magnificence. Chose your facet, your window to the world, wisely.ö - Legonas Tedams |
Marcus Grisbius
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Posted - 2003.08.12 16:11:00 -
[40]
I think a lot of people are missing a big point in the game. Industrials are not supposed to be able to outrun a gate camp. I'm not a pirate so don't flame me for griefing people or whatever. But an industrial is a big SLOW ship. The only way it should be able to get through a camped gate is with armed escorts.
It's ridiculous to think that a Mammoth or a Bestower can outrun any and every one of the 'speedy' frigates. The industrials ARE supposed to get shot in that situation. You could also fly a cruiser through the gate. Of course you won't be able to carry near as much but with afterburners you don't lose your shield and you can go fast enough to take negligible damage. And it's more realistic. :)
The solution is don't go into a gate camp without protection. Be smart, read the map as suggested by the pirates themselves. :) Even the npc convoys realize that they need protection and they travel with it.
If you're looking for a cool device to help out, check out an Auto Responsive Targeting unit. You can figure out who targeted you first and deduce who is using the webber and who's using the warp jammer. Then you can jam the ship using the webber instead of looking through all the ships. It's more complicated than coming out of warp at 1500m/s but it's a neat little toy if you learn to use it right.
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.08.12 16:32:00 -
[41]
web should only affect frigate/shuttle, slow down BS 90%? lol, I wonder what the hell the web is......
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.08.12 16:47:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Oh yeah, now I realize why I disliked large industrials zipping past cruisers - it reminds me of the silly, annoying, obnoxious jumping in some lower-quality FPSs! Thanks man!
The blockades are, on the other hand, easily avoided by utilizing one of the more common concepts of Ghost Recon..."Check MAP!"
If you can avoid the blockade, that clearly described a sucked blockade
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.08.12 16:52:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Dragon Emperor on 12/08/2003 16:52:59
guys, I couldn't care less about immue timer, when you jump out of warp at top speed, they web you, you are still fine. if you need accelerate after warp in, they web you, you screwed. If you don't even know this, then you are a noob, so shut up.
to ccp: give us a counter for webifier before you make this mwd nerf live.
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Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.12 16:54:00 -
[44]
YES, correctly equipped and prepared I expect to be able to run a blockade. For simple reasons. It's good for EVE.
I am not talking about a mammoth with a squeezed in MWD. I am talking about a cruiser equipped to do agent missions or to do some scouting. I agree trading through 0.0 space should be very dangerous alone, but rather raise the grid usage of the MWD to 60 or 70 so that it doesnt fit in an indy instead of killing it outright.
A anti-web hull modification is a good way to go. You still would have to sacrifice 2 slots, 50% shields and 25% cap to be able to travel. And you WOULD be shot at, which is not the case now.
Perhaps CCP should consider this? It's not the small corps and loners that need more casulties.
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
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Acix
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Posted - 2003.08.12 17:27:00 -
[45]
THis patch is going to end up being better for us (anti pirates) than for the pirates themselves. It is going to force the pirates to make a well thought out decision if they should fire or not. Start agression can't do their favorite thing of instant jumping (running away). Some of us have been waiting for this day for a while.
On the other hand, the corps that wanted to be escorts to make money now can. This will be a boost for the eve economy. The money that a miner makes will now have to be divided up if they want to make it to market in one piece. I will miss the ninja mining bistot days and selling wherever I wanted because I had a MWD. But now the money will spread and you will see more anti pirate groups start forming. The money will be there when the gates are closed to the markets, and the miners want them open. Kinda like street sweepers, cleaning the pirate scum off the highway. It will be fun!!!!
BTW quit calling these others carebears all the time when they just have a different opinion. Its not like this thread will change the dev's minds on the next patch. Just ride the highs and lows of patches. I'm still waiting for projectiles to be useful again, its been a long time.
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Cymoril
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Posted - 2003.08.12 17:48:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Why do you EXPECT to be able to run a blockade in the first place? why do you ASSUME you should be able to get past a horde of BS's and cruisers? what makes you BELIEVE a solo player should have even the smallest chance of surviving that encounter?
That's easy, because just like piracy is a profession in this game, so should blockade runner be a profession. Their SHOULD be pilots who specifically have the proper skills and equipment to make it through blockades. (The character Han Solo in Star Wars is a perfect example of this type of persona.)
However, it SHOULD take a character with a special skill set. People should have to devote a large amount of their character's learning time in specific skills that let them make it through blockades, just as pirates specifically train skills to stop them.
For everything in this game, there should be a way of countering it. Blockade runner, pirate, and bounty hunter should ALL be viable character options. |
Marcus Grisbius
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Posted - 2003.08.12 18:01:00 -
[47]
I wish I could be a CareBear! Heck shooting lasers of stuff out of your stomach could be useful for something. Who cares if it's in the shape of a clover or a heart! 
But back to the discussion, I like the fact that the escorts have a greater role in the game now. Our corp always sends escorts with our ships whether or not we think they need it. It's always better to be safe than sorry. I'm looking forward to the megacorps having to send in a convoy of 10 ships to be able to mine bistot or transport high-end crap (i.e. miner II's ). Each of the companies that blockade or blockade-run will have to step up their game.
The testing time is begun. Griefers will have grief returned to them and whiners should just head out of Dodge as soon as possible because things won't be pretty. Bring out the big guns, EVE's about to get crazy. Welcome to the Wild 0.0! (Sorry for the cowboy/western humor)
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |
Indesin
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Posted - 2003.08.12 18:38:00 -
[48]
EVE revolves around conflict. Player conflict. We are not talking about EverQuest, where your biggest fear is whether or not someone else is going to steal your mob. In such a scenario, there would be nothing you could do about itą and that is what I believe to be the most painful form of ęgriefingĘ.
EVE gives players more options, more control over their actions ū more freedom. If someone in EVE decides to steal something of yours (whether it be ore from a cc, a pirate you are fighting, or the equipment and cargo within your ship) you are able to retaliate with equal or greater force. Where and when you decide to retaliate is up to you. If you are destroyed by a group of pirates, gather a force of equal size and return the favor.
Where am I going with this? EVE takes place in a risky, unknown environment. There are over 5000 solar systems if I am not mistaken, and mommy isnĘt there to hold your hand while you travel through each one. If you find yourself jumping into an area of pirates, well boo-hoo. ItĘs time for fight or flight, you decide. Either way you will learn. You will learn what it takes to survive in this risky environment. You will learn the tactics of your enemies, and learn to adapt, or you will find yourself subscribing to EverQuest fairly quickly because you canĘt handle conflict.
You make your own choices, and you take responsibility for those decisions. If you decide to blockade a stargate, fine ū but be prepared for the consequences. If you disrespect someone, fine ū but be prepared for the consequences.
The bottom line is that EVE gives players the freedom of choice. What you choose to do is up to you ū but be prepared for the consequences.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.08.12 19:27:00 -
[49]
Why don't a couple of test server guru's try setting up some blockades on the test server and see how the patch affects your chances of running through a blockade.......
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Acix
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Posted - 2003.08.12 20:32:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Acix on 12/08/2003 20:33:13
I did some micro warp drive testing coming out of warp. Not firing them off before warp ends. These numbers are aprox. correct since the burst does not last long enough to really see it correctly. Out of warp I have a few seconds to activate the MWD's 3 of them total on my ship. This from a stand still propelled my stabber to 129KM/second. Within about three seconds my cap was 0.0 and I was 900km away from the point I had started at when my ship slowed to a speed that I could turn with. I did this with two and the result was 18km/second
I can't remember who put the webifier on me but with the three going I still got to about 25km/second. With 2 I got to about 2.5km/second. So mwd'S are still useful, even from a standstill.
This was with a Stabber (second to best minmatar cruiser). You should be able to do better with a ship that has more Med and low slots and higher cap.
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.12 20:36:00 -
[51]
Hrm...Running blockades should take a skill more than just High Speed Maneuvering and a MWD.
Least that's my opinion.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.08.12 20:37:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Hrm...Running blockades should take a skill more than just High Speed Maneuvering and a MWD.
Least that's my opinion.
Forming a blockade should take a skill more than just owning a battleship and an F-90 Positional 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Meau
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Posted - 2003.08.12 21:33:00 -
[53]
Yep, more skill should be needed, but not more skills.
At the start of the whole eve thing as far as i remember the plan was that f.e. warpscramblers depended on your skilllevel, stabilizers(hadnt a name back then) also, and so on. As it stands, your skill-levels dont matter for that kind of operations. Its sad, its crappy, but its how it is.
The problem is not that blockade running does not need many skills, camping doesnt need more, the problem is that many skills are never ever learned above level 1 (or some to level 3, which is too easy to get if its all you need).
The result of this is that f.e. no specialized blockade runner profession exists. I only can say it again, that is no problem of the blockade running, but generally of the game.
Warpscrambling also needs "no skill".
Manufacturing needs some, but they are not hard enough to get so nearly everybody can compete in this field.
The concept that everybody is theoretically able to learn everything is imho a good thing in a mmorpg. The current situation, that everybody really does learn everything cause its so easy is damn bad, and its not a problem of a single profession.
P.S.: Yep, Han Solo ran a lot of blockades in his life. But hes definetely not flying an industrial (a planetary ion cannon was needed for the indies to do it on hoth). If you have a planetary ioncannon and you cant run a blockade in an indi all alone, you are allowed to whine, but as it stands....
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.08.12 21:41:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 12/08/2003 21:42:41
Quote:
Yep, more skill should be needed, but not more skills.
At the start of the whole eve thing as far as i remember the plan was that f.e. warpscramblers depended on your skilllevel, stabilizers(hadnt a name back then) also, and so on. As it stands, your skill-levels dont matter for that kind of operations. Its sad, its crappy, but its how it is.
The problem is not that blockade running does not need many skills, camping doesnt need more, the problem is that many skills are never ever learned above level 1 (or some to level 3, which is too easy to get if its all you need).
The result of this is that f.e. no specialized blockade runner profession exists. I only can say it again, that is no problem of the blockade running, but generally of the game.
Warpscrambling also needs "no skill".
Manufacturing needs some, but they are not hard enough to get so nearly everybody can compete in this field.
The concept that everybody is theoretically able to learn everything is imho a good thing in a mmorpg. The current situation, that everybody really does learn everything cause its so easy is damn bad, and its not a problem of a single profession.
P.S.: Yep, Han Solo ran a lot of blockades in his life. But hes definetely not flying an industrial (a planetary ion cannon was needed for the indies to do it on hoth). If you have a planetary ioncannon and you cant run a blockade in an indi all alone, you are allowed to whine, but as it stands....
The problem lies in the lack of choices when it comes to being a pirate.
You have the "Lets camp a gate and gank anything that comes along to get the loot" or the "Use the map to find a lone pilot in a system and hold him to ransom with ECm/Jamming equipment for isk".
Having said that, having two choices in your chosen trade is a damn sight more than traders/miners have.
If you're looking for a wider and more varied trade, try hunting pirates.
Or, you could just be like many people are, and just swan around the Loonyiverse doing a bit of this, a bit of that, dodging the dibble........
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.12 23:27:00 -
[55]
I like this thread.
Aside from the quick-jab flaming, there are some good points made from most sides.
---
Now wars and fighting are becoming more prevalent, the escape/ensnare balance has got to be kept tight.
I don't generally like the term c***b***, as I feel it is a bit unnecessary, but to those that are of that persuasion:
How do you ever expect to exact revenge on these people? They'll simply use the same 'gadget' that you use to drift past them, on you. And you'd better believe they'd be more aware of their surroundings. Unless you caught one AFK (v. unlikely, as piracy is frought with paranoia) or stupid (this number is growing by the day) you will *never* catch a pirate. You could form a 40-ship gank-squad, and camp a station, a gate, a planet, anywhere, and it will *NOT* work. With the current state of invul, you can avoid even being targetted for several systems.
Having an anti-web device also has some worse implications..
The SI style of pleasant piracy will vanish. totally. Without the ability to hold someone in place, we cannot waste time asking question, and making ludicrous demands. We will be reduced to just shooting you. We might take the time to say hi while our guns rattle off, but that will be about as much pleasant as we can afford.
Now this is not something I want. But if it is forced upon me, I will pursue it with much gusto.
Anyway, I've been typing for some time now, so I'll go have a bath.
Keep it civil though, people.
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Gravedancer
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Posted - 2003.08.12 23:39:00 -
[56]
Didn't Molly quit for the 385th time the other day ? Just when you start to think shes gone for good... nope there comes another (not) well thought out post.
I do think though that the constant whining for CCP to fix things that arent broken needs to stop though. Seriously people.... stay awake and at your keyboard while traveling and you wont generally run into any trouble without advance notice of it. At the very least, you can always use bookmarks to instant jump and get past blockades on routes you commonly travel. And worst case scenario.. say you have no MWD's, no bookmarks, and are just DESPERATE to sleep while warping, well I guess you could just avoid going to the area where there are signs of pirate activity.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.08.13 02:19:00 -
[57]
hahaha you ppl talk about escorts??? what hell is that... there is no real game mechanics that are in place that you can go by escorts its only your word vs there word... there is no system if they do not do something or if you die and they didnt protect you they pay you money..
THERE IS NO SYSTEM, CCP NEEDS TO STOP NERFING THINGS BEFORE PUTING IN OTHER CONTENT THAT WILL BALANCE THE NERF
how can you ppl think of things oh lets put 2, 3 mwd lol come on that is lame you konw that cap is ment for warping... and you got no cap it will take you X more time to get to your place... making this game slow and boring EVEN MORE
i wouldnt care if the nerf had a nice balance to it... but it only nerfs and brings NOTHING to counter... that is wrong
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Drutort
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Posted - 2003.08.13 02:20:00 -
[58]
Quote:
Didn't Molly quit for the 385th time the other day ? Just when you start to think shes gone for good... nope there comes another (not) well thought out post.
I do think though that the constant whining for CCP to fix things that arent broken needs to stop though. Seriously people.... stay awake and at your keyboard while traveling and you wont generally run into any trouble without advance notice of it. At the very least, you can always use bookmarks to instant jump and get past blockades on routes you commonly travel. And worst case scenario.. say you have no MWD's, no bookmarks, and are just DESPERATE to sleep while warping, well I guess you could just avoid going to the area where there are signs of pirate activity.
your above stuff only applies now... after those changes it wouldnt matter how much awake you are... you will only see your ship get blown up and nothing that you could do about it
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Kennian
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Posted - 2003.08.13 07:53:00 -
[59]
this patch will defenetly make things interesting.
Blockades will have a big advantage agenst free traders. a standard industreal will more than likely die horribly agenst it...
but Moo will have to stand and fight, and more than likely will die, and battles will get alot bloodier...without the ability to gate or dock for repairs things will get ugly.
a good and bad patch in my estimation.
unfortently, this like everything else in the past few days is going to hit the smaller corps and freelancers the hardest.
it's already difficult to play solo, or with a small group of friends. now it's getting realy fricken stupid.
Alliances are takeing over huge tracks of space. and to absolutely no purpose save to make things harder for everyone else. kinda sad state of affairs that is going to make starting in this game that much harder...and i dont think it can afford it. Tank CEO and Molly have probibly cost CCP real money with their stupidity...
i ramble...
Peace and long life...
~~Kennian~~
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Needo
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Posted - 2003.08.13 09:38:00 -
[60]
I couldnt agree more.
Pirates cheer!
Alliances and megacorps cheers!
Freelancers and small corps grief. 
___________________________________________
You are never alone in schizophrenia.
___________________________________________ |
Venona Birch
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Posted - 2003.08.13 13:41:00 -
[61]
Quote:
I couldnt agree more.
Pirates cheer!
Alliances and megacorps cheers!
Freelancers and small corps grief.
I must say that I agree with you needo
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Kynoche
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Posted - 2003.08.13 20:22:00 -
[62]
Quote:
The only way that actually works is bookmarks on top of the gate, and that requires that you were there before. All other options gets you targetted == webbed == dead, unless the blockade sucks.
If that's the purpose of CCP, sure go ahead, I will adapt. Call me carebear, I'll call you acnekids, who cares. I do have the right to give CCP my view on the effects of the coming changes before they go online. That's all.
What I dont get is how they operate their ships targeting so well with one hand while the other is 2 knuckles deep in their nose while listening to the latest M&M....Lol!
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ChironV
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Posted - 2003.08.13 21:03:00 -
[63]
Anticipating that those changes in Chaos would be soon installed, its easy enough to map your routes and set up bookmarks. Gate campers are usually not on within the first 20 min of up time and its simple enough to use a fast frig to set your bookmarks on choice routes for that day. Planning ahead so your fat indy pops within 300 meters of a gate is not hard to do. I have yet to have an indy get borked by campers. Besides if the happy hamster campers have set up shop at a choke point you can make bookoo bucks hauling through happytime campers choke for people who dont have the bookmarks. Or you can sell your bookmarks for even more isk. We don't need more skills or modules. Just need to plan ahead. Besides,
its fun to taunt the campers.
________________________________________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.08.13 21:18:00 -
[64]
Whoever mentioned the grappling hook deserves a pat on the back... it would be cool to have that in EVE... - ie you shoot the GH at the gate and reel yourself in... HARRRR
TBH the only thing I'm worried about with the MWD being removed from warp is the other end... I dont want to be stuck on a bloody roid that I'm not even near touching when there are 3 50k ISK pirates bearing down on me... Using MWD was the only way out of this. Someone please tell me they have fixed this?
-------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.13 22:07:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Whoever mentioned the grappling hook deserves a pat on the back... it would be cool to have that in EVE... - ie you shoot the GH at the gate and reel yourself in... HARRRR
TBH the only thing I'm worried about with the MWD being removed from warp is the other end... I dont want to be stuck on a bloody roid that I'm not even near touching when there are 3 50k ISK pirates bearing down on me... Using MWD was the only way out of this. Someone please tell me they have fixed this?
Set your ship speed to 0.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.13 23:19:00 -
[66]
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 13/08/2003 23:19:25
Jash, if that works, I'll give you a 20% reduction in toll should we ever meet.
ChironV - That's the spirit
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darth solo
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Posted - 2003.08.13 23:46:00 -
[67]
whats this crap about always cheaking if ships are destroyed in the destination system????.
when u pirates start pod killing, it hardly even shows up on the map, its only when u have been at it for a while, that it starts looking suspicious. And its also over 24 hours, the majority of low sec sytems have quite a few pod kills over that period.
The only real way to be safe is by looking into local, checking out a few players before you warp to a gate.
Local is a bit leaky the now so i wouldnt even take this aa 100% true.
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Kynoche
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Posted - 2003.08.14 00:15:00 -
[68]
Local is totally hosed if you travel a lot. There are lots of ghosts hanging around out there. Me and some corpmates were just jumping into a 0.0 when we noticed that Stavros appeared in local but we found later it was from 3 jumps earlier. Its all about the sneak
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Gonada
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Posted - 2003.08.14 01:26:00 -
[69]
PLEASE RENAME THIS POST TO:
CAREBEARS WHINE SOME MORE !!
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cball
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Posted - 2003.08.14 01:55:00 -
[70]
calling ppl carebears for having an opinion.....
sad
very sad
bright side to this, most of the griefer types in here will somedday whine like little baby girls about being nerfed, and the carebears are killing them ...
...are these pirate/griefer types, pimple faced social rejects with a one handed s--life, and nothing better to do all day then figure out every exploit they can, just to ruin the game for others?
oh no, guess I'll be called something now, I displayed an opinion....
...fear the evil monkey in your hanger...
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Sedsiss
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Posted - 2003.08.14 03:13:00 -
[71]
You people are funny, thinking this patch is soo great for anti-pirates. Thinking that now M0o or sinistar is doomed because they can't jump/dock? Then your thinking wrong. All they need to do (and will do.) is make bookmarks in empty space. The second a fleet comes, they warp to said bookmark, and can't be touched. They'll wait awhile and resume camping when the fleet leaves. This patch is actually more of a boon to pirates than against them.
Unless the pirates suddenly get stupid.
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Setec
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Posted - 2003.08.14 03:37:00 -
[72]
You will still be able to very reliably keep from dying to blockades very easily after the coming patch, at any gate.
If you can't figure out how to do it, then you deserve to lose your stuff to pirates.
___________________________________________
Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
Intruders
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Posted - 2003.08.14 04:44:00 -
[73]
Quote:
Set your ship speed to 0.
It does not work, personally got the smae advice from a GM while i was stuck just outside a dock with an indy, it never worked, just the ship wiggled back and forth and started accelerating very slowly from zero.
They just should put a "cancel warp" button to avoid this, whats the big deal about it. Is it so hard to code?
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
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